Mothers during and after birth

[Murphy101]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Dying isn't surgery.

Again. It isn’t unless it ends up that way. Grandma was 90 freaking years old when she went to the hospital for a broken hip and then didn’t come home.

She’d had surgeries before then for various things and it was the same way. Because there comes a point when there’s no such thing as a minor surgery for someone. 

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I will die on the hill of it being a crazy idea that twenty - twenty! - family members show up at a hospital when someone is having surgery. 
 

If they aren’t seeing you, what do you even care?

I agree with you in my personal preferences but I just don’t care what other people do.

Don’t be jerks. That’s it. Don’t care if it’s that one grandma who has to keep her phone on speaker or 20 people talking over each other while their kids run around. 

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Pray from home. Send a text. 

Who even TELLS twenty people they are having surgery, lol? 

LOL  It just takes telling that one person.   Or a FB post.

 

[Renai]

4 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

That was how it was done in my mother’s church.  I honestly thought most did it that way until I saw it working.  

I wondered if it became a thing because too many people were dropping in with people not up to visits, and needing to set a standard for everyone. This seems like the issue of "do you drop in at someone's house or call first" discussion. I remember growing up and people dropping in and it was okay. Others around my age say that was considered rude and didn't like it. Culture, generational norms, society, personal preference, all come into play. 

I've enjoyed this discussion (I've read the first 3 pages and this one, sorry pages 4-5). I like seeing how some people really like many visitors and hearing how much they feel supported in that way. I understand the people that don't want a lot of visitors dropping in to see the baby after birth. I've had it both ways.

Nowadays if someone I know is getting a medical procedure, I'll just ask via text usually. During the vulnerable time, I'll usually text the person closest to them to see if anything is needed or if it's okay for me to text directly, because I don't want to bother the patient unless they've said it's okay. 

[TechWife]

44 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

The hospital I am in at the moment has about 120 beds. It also has an attached nursing home. it is a regional hospital in a small city that coveres the whole eastern end of Victoria. The waiting room  In emergancy has exactly 20 chairs.. That is as big as the room is. And as many chairs as it can hold.  There are no other waiting rooms 

The hallways are about 3 metres wide. If a bed is being moved through the hallway people need to back against the walls. 

I have never worked out what a lobby is. It is one of those words that I have never been able to translate 

Aside from the number of beds, your  physical description pretty much matches that of the hospital I am most familiar with. The children’s ED has a smaller waiting room, but does have a small play area for siblings that may have had to come with the family. The surgery/critical care waiting room is much larger than either of these, but there are nearly 200 ICU beds and 20 operating rooms. Also, ICU rooms don’t have a lot of space in them, so if there is something emergent happening or an end of life situation, there are often family members who are taking turns spending time with the patient and use the waiting area. Labor & Delivery has a waiting room about the same size as children’s ED, but without the play area space. There’s a small day surgery waiting room. This is a large facility that covers more than one square mile, with the exception of the two ED waiting rooms, the waiting areas aren’t close to each other. It’s not much waiting space, all things considered.

A lobby is the main entry point to a building. Public access to the rest of the building is gained through the lobby. There is often a reception desk where people check in for appointments, get directions, etc.. For some places, a lobby is formed when different wings of a building come together & it often houses elevators used by all wings because they are in the middle. Lobbies vary widely in size

[Clemsondana]

Depending on the family, it's not hard to have a fairly large group.  My grandmother had 5 kids.  If they and their spouses came to the hospital, that's 10.  Add in a sibling and a pastor, or a spouse, or some grandkids and you have a crowd. Normally you wouldn't have a huge crowd for something like an appendectomy or gall bladder surgery.  But, when a relative had heart surgery, her sibling, spouse, kids with spouses and teen grandkids were all there, plus a pastor.  This relative was terrified and I think found comfort in having those people close by even though they couldn't all go in and visit after surgery, or were only allowed in 2 at a time for brief visits.  This is different than when my grandfather was in hospice.  He had been in the hospital with frequent visitors, but when he was moved to hospice he didn't want the grandkids to see him like that.  So, despite it being set up to accommodate family (in a separate part of the hospital), it was only my grandmother and their 2 children.  I was the only grandchild to visit, and I was there just dropping off food and clothing and the 3 of them asked me to stay with him so that they could get a break together.  I give these 2 examples because they were the same side of the family and this is the less 'everybody go to the hospital' side, but under certain circumstances they still showed up big.  

[wendyroo]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

That could mean thousands of people with no medical reason filling the hospital every day. 😲😲😲

To me this is completely mind blowing  

The hospitals around me are a constant flow of hundreds of people in and out an hour. Often several bottom floors are devoted to outpatient x-ray and other testing. People go there weekly for all types of therapies. Doctors have offices, so people are walking through to get to routine appointments. 

[Murphy101]

5 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

That could mean thousands of people with no medical reason filling the hospital every day. 😲😲😲

To me this is completely mind blowing  

Well sure. But not all at once. And most people these days don’t have large families or even any family at all living near by.  So for those people, regardless of whether they’d be okay with it or not, it’s unlikely they are going to have 20 people show up.  For every person that has 20 show up, there’s probably 2 or 3 that have 1-2 who could wait for them.  And this is just waiting. People come and go while waiting. And once the good news that things went well and they are recovering, most people are going to leave.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

I find this hard to believe.

Many people have twenty or more family members hanging around while they have surgery, and the patient is thrilled by that? 

 

 

Yes. It’s customary for many and the patient might be offended if there isn’t a show of support. 
 

ETA - And for the extended family members who have this custom, were I geographically close to them, I would be in the waiting area showing by support, too. That’s the culture.

Edited September 22, 2023 by TechWife

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

Well sure. But not all at once. And most people these days don’t have large families or even any family at all living near by.  So for those people, regardless of whether they’d be okay with it or not, it’s unlikely they are going to have 20 people show up.  For every person that has 20 show up, there’s probably 2 or 3 that have 1-2 who could wait for them.  And this is just waiting. People come and go while waiting. And once the good news that things went well and they are recovering, most people are going to leave.

Yes. This. 

[TechWife]

33 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Dying isn't surgery.

I will die on the hill of it being a crazy idea that twenty - twenty! - family members show up at a hospital when someone is having surgery. 

Pray from home. Send a text. 

Who even TELLS twenty people they are having surgery, lol? 

Oh, often you only tell one or two, then they tell two people and so on, and so on. 

[Melissa in Australia]

9 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

The hospitals around me are a constant flow of hundreds of people in and out an hour. Often several bottom floors are devoted to outpatient x-ray and other testing. People go there weekly for all types of therapies. Doctors have offices, so people are walking through to get to routine appointments. 

But that is people there for a medical reason.. For testing or scans or to see specialists.  That happens here too. 

The hundreds and thousands of other people just going to the hospital to hang out are... Well I guess I don't have enough words for it. It is truly unbelievable to me that there would be thousands of people loitering in a hospital for no medical reason at all. 

[Frances]

17 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

That could mean thousands of people with no medical reason filling the hospital every day. 😲😲😲

To me this is completely mind blowing  

I don’t think having 20+ people in a waiting room for one person is nearly as common in the US as some on this thread are making it out to be. Now having 20+ people knowing about a surgery would be very common in the rural Midwest town I grew up in due to prayers in church, prayers chains, coffee groups, and just general small town life. But people generally show love and support by praying, sending cards, making and bringing food to the family, shoveling snow, transporting children, etc., not showing up en masse and taking over a waiting room. I never saw anything like that in all of the many times each of my parents was hospitalized. My mom did mention one relative out of everyone she knew, because she found it so unusual, who liked lots of visitors when they were in the hospital.

[Murphy101]

20 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

But that is people there for a medical reason.. For testing or scans or to see specialists.  That happens here too. 

The hundreds and thousands of other people just going to the hospital to hang out are... Well I guess I don't have enough words for it. It is truly unbelievable to me that there would be thousands of people loitering in a hospital for no medical reason at all. 

Again. Read my post explaining. It’s a revolving door. And it’s not at all like everyone for everything has 20 plus people all at the same time for the entire time. 
 

and they are there for a medical reason - to be there for someone in medical need. 

19 minutes ago, Frances said:

I don’t think having 20+ people in a waiting room for one person is nearly as common in the US as some on this thread are making it out to be. Now having 20+ people knowing about a surgery would be very common in the rural Midwest town I grew up in due to prayers in church, prayers chains, coffee groups, and just general small town life. But people generally show love and support by praying, sending cards, making and bringing food to the family, shoveling snow, transporting children, etc., not showing up en masse and taking over a waiting room. I never saw anything like that in all of the many times each of my parents was hospitalized. My mom did mention one relative out of everyone she knew, because she found it so unusual, who liked lots of visitors when they were in the hospital.

This. I’ve seen it somewhat often but really the vast majority of the time they are quiet and since the waiting rooms have the seating split up in little groupings, you often won’t know unless you are really looking and observing anyways.  Most people are too focused on their own business to do that.

and again most people don’t have family of that size and many people don’t have family at all living near by.

and again, most people don’t stay the entire time  

My husband will LOVE visitors the more the better.  He hates being alone for more than 5 minutes and it’s important to him to be liked and hear that he is appreciated.  If he could get a constant parade coming through - he would absolutely be cloud 9 level thrilled.

I would need weeks to decompress from such a social event. lol

Edited September 22, 2023 by Murphy101

[itsheresomewhere]

30 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Oh, often you only tell one or two, then they tell two people and so on, and so on. 

Yep.
And for some just like the game of telephone by the time it reaches Bob, Suzy is no longer having a procedure but is now at death’s door. Poor Suzy is mortified that she was having a body part augmentation and didn’t tell people but now has a waiting full of people who think she is severely ill. And I assume Suzy never told her mother again about any procedures she was having. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Who even TELLS twenty people they are having surgery, lol? 

 

59 minutes ago, annandatje said:

I was wondering same thing re who tells 20 people they’re having surgery.  In fact, I’ve long ago stopped sharing medical info with people who have shared the info without my approval.  Husband, adult children (only one lives in my city), sister and good friend are on my short list.  During surgeries, only my husband is allowed.  I honestly would be appalled to learn that 20 people knew my personal medical business and were waiting while my surgery was done.  My husband darn sure would not feel supported.

Same here.

I would be exhausted if I had to deal with a big group of people in the waiting room while an immediate family member was having surgery. It's one reason why we tell very few people about anything medical that's going on with us. It's none of their business, and we prefer to handle medical issues privately. 

I can't imagine knowing 20 people well enough to want to share that level of private personal information with them, and the last thing I would want would be for them to show up, uninvited, at the hospital. Ugh! No thank you!

[itsheresomewhere]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

 

Same here.

I would be exhausted if I had to deal with a big group of people in the waiting room while an immediate family member was having surgery. It's one reason why we tell very few people about anything medical that's going on with us. It's none of their business, and we prefer to handle medical issues privately. 

I can't imagine knowing 20 people well enough to want to share that level of private personal information with them, and the last thing I would want would be for them to show up, uninvited, at the hospital. Ugh! No thank you!

Same here.  

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

In my area it’s (a). We have two main hospitals, one a university teaching hospital and one a not-for-profit. Each of those has around 900 beds. Each owns one or more satellite hospitals with 50-100 beds per location. Not all areas have the medical resources that we have here, though. It’s one thing that keeps us here. 

Whenever we are thinking about moving to a different place, one of our top priorities is that there are highly ranked doctors, specialists, and hospitals in the area. Excellent medical care is one thing we absolutely refuse to compromise on.

We are very fortunate to be able to live wherever we like, and I am very grateful for that privilege.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Catwoman
I can't type tonight!

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

Oh, often you only tell one or two, then they tell two people and so on, and so on. 

Omg this would kill me. Seriously. If I told my sister I was having surgery, and then she invited herself and other people to the hospital? I would implode. 

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

And each of those people would walk. In a hallway, go in a lift, take a car park spot, possably ask questions or directions of staff. Each one of them. Possably hundreds  of people if there is lots of surgery happening 

That doesn't happen here.  

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Omg this would kill me. Seriously. If I told my sister I was having surgery, and then she invited herself and other people to the hospital? I would implode. 

I feel like I have said this before in this thread, but if it is known a patient doesn’t like anyone at the hospital than that is what is abided by.  
 

We have a large information tree of sorts and some people request very little info be given and some people are fine with all the details. Same with visitors.  ‘Visitors welcome.’  ‘No visitors, but phone calls welcome. ‘ text only, don’t expect a reply’ .  
 

I feel sure a person like you would not have a streak of visitors or a group waiting in the waiting room. The goal is support and to make you feel loved.  It obviously would not make you feel loved.  
 

I am not sure why you feel the need to take a custom from another country that you obviously don’t like and then assume it is being forced upon people who don’t want it.  

[fairfarmhand]

Off topic….

am I the only one who doesn’t like holding someone else’s newborn? I’ll admire from a distance but don’t want to hold it.  I always worry that the next day I’ll come down with something and omg I exposed that precious baby without knowing it!

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Off topic….

am I the only one who doesn’t like holding someone else’s newborn? I’ll admire from a distance but don’t want to hold it.  I always worry that the next day I’ll come down with something and omg I exposed that precious baby without knowing it!

Yes, I am that way.  I think only since Covid though.  Covid really messed with my brain.  

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Off topic….

am I the only one who doesn’t like holding someone else’s newborn? I’ll admire from a distance but don’t want to hold it.  I always worry that the next day I’ll come down with something and omg I exposed that precious baby without knowing it!

I don't really like babies. I liked mine, of course. And all babies are cute and "awww" worthy. But if (for instance) my niece or somebody equally close has a baby I'm not really interested in holding it. I suppose it may be different when/if I have grandkids, though.

ETA: My disinterest has nothing to do with spreading germs or anything like that. I just don't find other people's babies very interesting. Toddlers are much more fun, and I'm much more likely to want to interact with them.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Pawz4me

[gardenmom5]

11 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 

I have never worked out what a lobby is. It is one of those words that I have never been able to translate 

A lobby in a hospital is the entry area, where there is a reception desk(s) for information for visitors if it is JUST a hospital (some also including attached clinics for various testing).  off to the side will be admitting.  Usually, a waiting area with seating.

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 I have been to many many surgeries with 20 or more people waiting,   The patient has ALWAYS been thrilled by the support. 

Your nephew and his wife don't want the 20 or more people waiting.

11 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I have never experienced a lack of waiting room.   Good grief. And if a patient can’t be honest about what they prefer that is a complete other conversation. 

I HAVE - because ONE large family took over the entire waiting area.  And if they weren't sitting on a chair, their stuff was. And they were loud. The only chairs left were akin to folding chairs in front of large windows (cold) and across from the elevators.  Very uncomfortable, and very exposed.

11 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Here nurses take patients to the toilet. H with showering, Make the beds and if needed feed the patient. The hospitals also have personal care assistants and student nurses doing their learning rounds that help with these tasks. 

They do here as well.   

 

[kokotg]

I had a relative show up in the waiting room uninvited when my four month old was having a fairly major surgery. It was clear that to her this was just The Thing to Do, but it was the absolute LAST thing I wanted. I'm sure she would say that OF COURSE she wasn't expecting anything of me, but to me it meant I had to navigate what has always been a somewhat complicated relationship and give emotional and mental space to THAT instead of focusing entirely on my baby. I certainly never TOLD her any of this, though. So that to say that just because you don't KNOW that someone would prefer not to have a crowd around doesn't mean that's not the case. There are plenty of people who would do their very best never to let on that they'd rather you not be there. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by kokotg

[gardenmom5]

Some people don't listen either - and they just cause more stress when there is already a lot of stress.
last winter when dsil was having his surgery - his father drove from AZ in an ice storm to come.  (he'd called at midnight to let dsil know where he was - he was specifically told to find a hotel and park it and get off the road.  He had been told to stay away.  Dsil had a, shall we say, ,fractious relationship with his parents.  (after spending a week helping with him and the boys at his parents house, it was eye opening).
He showed up at 6am, as 2dd and dsil were getting ready to leave for the hospital. 
He followed them to the hospital and sat in the waiting room, and made far more stress for 2dd while dsil was in surgery.

(Dh and I had been asked to come and help.  we were there for 2 1/2 weeks. we cooked, we cleaned, we did laundry, we babysat. threw chemical deicer on the driveway, and I still slid down it . . . I didn't fall . . .   I went back a week later.)

His parents spent all their time at the hospital, and did nothing to help 2dd.  (they actually caused problems in their relationship). They just made more work for her.  they were eventually told to leave.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by gardenmom5

[marbel]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

Off topic….

am I the only one who doesn’t like holding someone else’s newborn? I’ll admire from a distance but don’t want to hold it.  I always worry that the next day I’ll come down with something and omg I exposed that precious baby without knowing it!

Oh my gosh, I've been reading this thread and thinking about people who can't wait to hold the baby and I just don't get it. I hate holding brand new babies and don't understand passing them around for people to hold. I mean, not being judgy but I don't get the attraction.  Nothing to do with germs, just... no thanks. 

And honestly I also don't understand needing to see the baby immediately. Nice to get a picture of a healthy baby but <shrug> except for my own, they all pretty much look the same to me. 

But actually I don't really like kids all that much till preschool age. I mean, I'm nice to them and all. 🙂

Maybe I'll feel differently if I have grandchildren. 

[SKL]

Not about new moms, but about hospital visitors when someone has surgery.

My mom had emergency surgery for colon cancer.  She has a husband and 6 kids.  The 7 of us came and hung around the waiting area during her surgery and initial "recovery" (coming off the anaesthesia).  When the doctor came out to tell "her person" how the surgery went, he looked at the crowd of us and said, "... ... OK, who are all these people?"

So I guess that around here, it's not common to have a lot of visitors when you've had surgery.  The only reason my mom had so many was because she has so many kids within driving distance.

In my limited experience, usually 1 visitor at a time is typical.

[bolt.]

I think maybe the "visitor culture" has its roots in the realities two or three generations back. (The people doing it now learned that it was 'the done thing' from prior generations of their family.) Many 'the done thing' things had practical reasons back in some point in the past, but we'd question whether they have any true utility now.

So there are people questioning the true utility of lots of visitors flocking to 'see the baby' asap after birth, or large groups waiting through low-risk procedures. I think the roots of these behaviours is in the much poorer survival rates around such things merely a few generations back. The people were there because mom, baby, or other type of patient had a serious risk of dying and never coming home again. That's why 'visiting at home' isn't traditional, and 'visiting in hospital' is.

People say (now) that it's 'for support'. I imagine that used to be a polite way of saying it's *in case a loved one dies* -- in case the baby doesn't live more than a few days; in case the mother never comes home.... but not wanting to acknowledge out loud that death might well happen. So now people who are reasonably safe either expect "support" of that kind (because "support" is what we've been calling it) -or- don't quite know what a visitor is looking to accomplish since no "support" is really needed or being provided by a high volume of not-terribly-close visitors.

And maybe some people don't feel safe. And maybe sometimes a procedure like having a lot of folks around is one of those 'unnecessary in most cases, but invaluable when the scenario actually arises' type of things.

None the less, it is a way of defining an inner circle within a family -- and it never feels good to be explicitly told that one is not part of another person's inner circle. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

Your nephew and his wife don't want the 20 or more people waiting.

 

 

I feel like I am speaking a foreign language, but I will try again….

My nephew and his wife did not want people there and no one was there.  The times there have been people there waiting the patient expressed how happy they were.

See how that works? Different people want different things.  And that is ok. 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, kokotg said:

I had a relative show up in the waiting room uninvited when my four month old was having a fairly major surgery. It was clear that to her this was just The Thing to Do, but it was the absolute LAST thing I wanted. I'm sure she would say that OF COURSE she wasn't expecting anything of me, but to me it meant I had to navigate what has always been a somewhat complicated relationship and give emotional and mental space to THAT instead of focusing entirely on my baby. I certainly never TOLD her any of this, though. So that to say that just because you don't KNOW that someone would prefer not to have a crowd around doesn't mean that's not the case. There are plenty of people who would do their very best never to let on that they'd rather you not be there. 

I am sorry you experienced that stress.  Sometimes it is hard to speak up. But people aren’t mind readers.  

[kokotg]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I am sorry you experienced that stress.  Sometimes it is hard to speak up. But people aren’t mind readers.  

No, but if she had asked beforehand I would have politely told her she didn't need to come. She didn't ask (and I suspect that if she had, it would have been tough to get her to take no for an answer). I'm not a mind reader, either, so I had no way of knowing she was going to show up, and it would have been MORE stressful to have an awkward interaction where I tried to get her to leave without hurting her feelings.

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

Some people don't listen either - and they just cause more stress when there is already a lot of stress.
last winter when dsil was having his surgery - his father drove from AZ in an ice storm to come.  (he'd called at midnight to let dsil know where he was - he was specifically told to find a hotel and park it and get off the road.  He had been told to stay away.  Dsil had a, shall we say, ,fractious relationship with his parents.  (after spending a week helping with him and the boys at his parents house, it was eye opening).
He showed up at 6am, as 2dd and dsil were getting ready to leave for the hospital. 
He followed them to the hospital and sat in the waiting room, and made far more stress for 2dd while dsil was in surgery.

(Dh and I had been asked to come and help.  we were there for 2 1/2 weeks. we cooked, we cleaned, we did laundry, we babysat. threw chemical deicer on the driveway, and I still slid down it . . . I didn't fall . . .   I went back a week later.)

His parents spent all their time at the hospital, and did nothing to help 2dd.  (they actually caused problems in their relationship). They just made more work for her.  they were eventually told to leave.  

This makes me incredibly sad. 

[historically accurate]

On 9/19/2023 at 7:43 PM, Scarlett said:

...

 

Fast forward to today…….baby is born. We get immediate notification from  nephew…..pics etc.  my mom gets a text from a cousin in the town nephew lives in…..she says, ‘isn’t today baby is coming?’ My mom said yes…..and cousin says oh I wanted to be there.   Mom tells her ‘ well I would go on up there. ‘.  I looked shocked at mom…..um they said they did  not want people at the hospital.  Mom says, well, the baby is here now, if I was there I would go up there.   I said, ‘After you were told no?’ Mom says, well it is his ( her grandson) baby too……and I know he would not care.  
Half an hour later cousin texts and says she went to the hospital and she was turned away by nephews mom who said they are not accepting visitors.  
I told mom,  ’well you set cousin up for that.’

...

 

5 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I feel like I have said this before in this thread, but if it is known a patient doesn’t like anyone at the hospital than that is what is abided by.  
 

We have a large information tree of sorts and some people request very little info be given and some people are fine with all the details. Same with visitors.  ‘Visitors welcome.’  ‘No visitors, but phone calls welcome. ‘ text only, don’t expect a reply’ .  
 

...

I feel like this thread is very confusing.

How did we go from the first post where mom told not to visit tells cousin to go ahead to the hospital to we always abide by family member's visitation wishes on page 7? 

I'm so confused on what's actually going on, if you think that the scenario in post #1 is "abiding by the patient's wishes".

[Jaybee]

5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Off topic….

am I the only one who doesn’t like holding someone else’s newborn? I’ll admire from a distance but don’t want to hold it.  I always worry that the next day I’ll come down with something and omg I exposed that precious baby without knowing it!

I love to hold newborns, but I'm not going to hold one unless I am asked or unless I am helping out with a new grand baby. I figure the baby gets passed around enough, and I don't want to add to its stress or discomfort. I am also one who will not engage much with children at large gatherings. If I already have a relationship with a child, and they want to interact with me, that's different. But I much prefer to interact one-on-one in a less stressful environment than a large gathering.

[fraidycat]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:43 PM, Scarlett said:

Can we discuss this? 

So honestly how do we explain this? To me every birth seems fraught with emotional land mines and disappointment. Yes, we all know it is the moms body etc…..but why are we cutting out family completely? Is there not a mid ground of everyone in delivery room vs no one is allowed on hospital grounds?
 

How to explain: personal autonomy. Period.

There was no complete cutting of family - both mothers were there. So this is a hyberbolic question based on nothing factual.

The mid ground is "we'd love a visit when we get home and settled". 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I feel like I am speaking a foreign language, but I will try again….

My nephew and his wife did not want people there and no one was there.  The times there have been people there waiting the patient expressed how happy they were.

See how that works? Different people want different things.  And that is ok. 

Maybe you should have posted a JAWM.

[gardenmom5]

57 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

This makes me incredibly sad. 

It made me sad too..  Sad that was such as their relationship.

And angry his parents had so little respect for him, and my daughter.   And were only interested in the boys for "grandparent bragging rights".    I was there to see it . . . 

[Melissa in Australia]

24 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

 

I feel like this thread is very confusing.

How did we go from the first post where mom told not to visit tells cousin to go ahead to the hospital to we always abide by family member's visitation wishes on page 7? 

I'm so confused on what's actually going on, if you think that the scenario in post #1 is "abiding by the patient's wishes".

I have been very confused for a while. It is so completely out of my understanding of hospitals. 

Some of the terms used like

Being at delivery to me equals present at delivery.. In the room. Watching the actual person have the baby. (here 20 or so people wouldn't fit in a tiny delivery cubical) 

Being at surgery... in theater... People watching the actual surgery (do they have a glass panel like on a movie for the audience to watch through for infection control I wonder) 

Being in recovery room.. This one really has me even more confused..(it must mean something completely different there) Here the recovery room Is where all still unconscious  patients are wheeled and their tubes are removed. And they are brought back to consciousness. Rows of beds side by side with just room for a nurse between each bed. Before the patient is taken back to the ward. Nobody at all is allowed in there. 

[sweet2ndchance]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I have been very confused for a while. It is so completely out of my understanding of hospitals. 

Some of the terms used like

Being at delivery to me equals present at delivery.. In the room. Watching the actual person have the baby. (here 20 or so people wouldn't fit in a tiny delivery cubical) 

I've been in American hospitals where it was barely big enough for the nursing staff to fit and in huge LDR (labor, delivery and recovery) rooms where you stay in the same room from the moment you arrive until you are discharged with the baby. It varies widely from hospital to hospital here. Though there can be 20 people present at the delivery room in some cases, most people wait in the maternity waiting area which is an area like a doctor's waiting area with chairs and tvs and sometimes vending machines.

Being at surgery... in theater... People watching the actual surgery (do they have a glass panel like on a movie for the audience to watch through for infection control I wonder) 

I've never actually seen a hospital with a surgery theater like in the movies that allowed family of the patient in there. These are usually at university teaching hospitals (like where my husband had his brain surgery) and only medical students are allowed to watch the actual surgery. People who come to "support" the patient are in a waiting area like I described above.

Being in recovery room.. This one really has me even more confused..(it must mean something completely different there) Here the recovery room Is where all still unconscious  patients are wheeled and their tubes are removed. And they are brought back to consciousness. Rows of beds side by side with just room for a nurse between each bed. Before the patient is taken back to the ward. Nobody at all is allowed in there. 

Here it's called a PACU (post anesthesia care unit) and it is much like you describe. Some hospitals will let a spouse or one parent into the PACU to be with the patient, others do not. A recovery room is like what you call "the ward". It's where you are released to for the remainder of your hospital stay and you can receive visitors. Some hospitals are, at most, two patients to a room but it is becoming increasingly common to have all private recovery rooms.

 

[Terabith]

My relationship with my mother is often tense. She loves me, but she’s very anxious and she doesn’t get me at all and I honestly don’t understand her at all.  I was being encouraged to have book reduction surgery from age 12. I was terrified of surgery and anesthesia. During one of the many conversations when my mom expressed her encouragement for me having this surgery, when my kids were toddlers, she said, “And of course I’d be there in case you died.”  I said, “Honestly, I couldn’t go through with surgery if you were there.  What would be far more helpful for me is if you took care of my kids and saw me after the surgery was over.”  She said, “There’s no way I wouldn’t be there, whether you wanted me there or not. Your husband could stay with your kids.  Someone off the street could stay with your kids. I would be there with my baby.”  
 

Seven years later, when having it done became urgent, I didn’t tell her until a week or so after it was over. She hit the roof and has never forgiven me.  But there’s no way I could have managed her anxiety and my own.  
 

Some operating rooms do have a viewing booth with glass, but it’s pretty much only for other doctors to watch an interesting surgery. 

[sweet2ndchance]

This thread brought up a memory I had almost forgot about. When dh's grandma had double knee replacement surgery, we traveled with her to the hospital in a larger city about 90 minutes away from where we live. But ds was 3yo at the time and she (grandma) didn't want us to have to sit and entertain him in the waiting room so she gave us some money and told us to take him to the zoo while she was in surgery and when we got back she should be in a recovery room and ready for visitors.

When we got back from the zoo, we went to the information desk in the surgery waiting area to find out what room she was in and the volunteers that work the desk kept giving us dirty looks. Apparently, we had not been there when they called out for Grandma's family to come to the desk and they assumed no one had shown up to "support" her. It was rather offputting and we didn't understand their gruff manner towards us at the time. But this thread has shed a little light on what their problem may have been.

[Clarita]

7 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Off topic….

am I the only one who doesn’t like holding someone else’s newborn? I’ll admire from a distance but don’t want to hold it.  I always worry that the next day I’ll come down with something and omg I exposed that precious baby without knowing it!

Even way before COVID when I'm visiting my friends with babies and they would give me an option of holding the baby for a moment while they did some chore I would ask to do the chore. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Clarita
Also because that's what I was raised with, support for mom and baby is to do her chores not just chit chat and see the baby.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, historically accurate said:

 

I feel like this thread is very confusing.

How did we go from the first post where mom told not to visit tells cousin to go ahead to the hospital to we always abide by family member's visitation wishes on page 7? 

I'm so confused on what's actually going on, if you think that the scenario in post #1 is "abiding by the patient's wishes".

My mom did stay away. Telling the cousin to go did cross a line which was the point of the thread.  That was he action of one 78 year old woman not the actions of her everyone in my very wide circle of family and friends.  

[sweet2ndchance]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

My mom did stay away. Telling the cousin to go did cross a line which was the point of the thread.

To me, and my opinion is colored by dealing with many manipulative people in my life, it almost seems like a manipulation tactic. It seems to me like she was trying to set up a situation where she could say, "You let so and so cousin in to see the baby but you wouldn't let me?!?" It's like she thought maybe if cousin just showed up they wouldn't turn them away for fear of seeming rude but it backfired on her because they did turn cousin away without any qualms about seeming rude. Like I said though, I'm a bit biased in my opinion having dealt with so much manipulation in my life but that's what it looks like to me from the outside looking in.

[Clemsondana]

2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I have been very confused for a while. It is so completely out of my understanding of hospitals. 

Some of the terms used like

Being at delivery to me equals present at delivery.. In the room. Watching the actual person have the baby. (here 20 or so people wouldn't fit in a tiny delivery cubical) 

Being at surgery... in theater... People watching the actual surgery (do they have a glass panel like on a movie for the audience to watch through for infection control I wonder) 

Being in recovery room.. This one really has me even more confused..(it must mean something completely different there) Here the recovery room Is where all still unconscious  patients are wheeled and their tubes are removed. And they are brought back to consciousness. Rows of beds side by side with just room for a nurse between each bed. Before the patient is taken back to the ward. Nobody at all is allowed in there. 

That is not generally what people mean by those terms.  Being in the delivery room can be fraught if there are people who expect to be there, but most of the time it's 1-2 people (often the dad and the mom's mom or a friend).  Sometimes I've heard of more people, but it's still more like 3-4, not 20.  Other people are generally in a waiting room of some sort.  The waiting room would be in the maternity ward, so only families of people giving birth.  With babies coming at all sorts of hours, I'd imagine that there are busy times and not busy times depending on how crowded the ward is at the time.  

Being at surgery is also being in a waiting room.  I've never heard of anybody being in/watching somebody's surgery with the exception of 1 person (usually the dad) allowed to be present at a C-section.  I was in labor forever before my first, and spouse came with me for the surgery while my mom, who had also been with us during labor, was in a waiting room.  In the situations I've seen, the family sits in the waiting room while the patient is prepped for surgery.  Then a small number are allowed back to sit with the patient while they wait for surgery.  The family returns to the waiting room during the surgery.  Once the patient is in recovery, at some point a small number (1-2) are allowed back to sit with the patient until they are released or moved to a room.  I'd imagine that the number allowed back might also depend on crowds.  When my mom had surgery, she was the last patient of the day at the particular hospital and the only one in recovery.  There were only 2 of us, but they might have allowed more to sit with her since there was nobody to bother.  But, it was only because her surgery took forever.  When they were prepping her, every pre-op bay was occupied and having more than 2 back at a time would have been a problem.  Note - her surgery wasn't at a trauma center - it was at a hospital that deals with 'routine' things like appendicitis and heart attacks and is favored by the orthopedic practice that was fixing her shattered kneecap.  Our city also has a university hospital with trauma center, which likely has surgeries going around the clock.  

For recovery, some hospitals have an open room and others have a room with semi-divided bays - separated by curtains for privacy but not really separate rooms.  Most let somebody back once the patient has whatever tubes removed that they are going to remove.  Some want the patient to be awake and others let somebody back while the patient is still groggy.  I don't know if it's hospital-specific or type-of-sedation-specific or crowd-specific.  

 

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I have been very confused for a while. It is so completely out of my understanding of hospitals. 

Some of the terms used like

Being at delivery to me equals present at delivery.. In the room. Watching the actual person have the baby. (here 20 or so people wouldn't fit in a tiny delivery cubical) 

Being at surgery... in theater... People watching the actual surgery (do they have a glass panel like on a movie for the audience to watch through for infection control I wonder) 

Being in recovery room.. This one really has me even more confused..(it must mean something completely different there) Here the recovery room Is where all still unconscious  patients are wheeled and their tubes are removed. And they are brought back to consciousness. Rows of beds side by side with just room for a nurse between each bed. Before the patient is taken back to the ward. Nobody at all is allowed in there. 

I think it makes this thread even more confusing is hospitals also do things differently even all within the US. I'm lucky that I've never had to have surgery except to get my molars extracted which was not even done at the hospital. Then the other times for the hospital was giving birth and the hospital stay with my infant.

Delivery.

This can mean seeing the actual delivery of the baby. The hospital I gave birth at actually had policy of only 2 people present at that and reserves the right to kick people out. They had trouble in the past with too many people actually present for delivery. So spouse and an advocate (some people hire a person or decides on a person who advocates for the wants of the mom in case they feel the dad isn't going to be able to). I trust my OB and her team and my husband can handle it so in most cases it is just the dad/spouse.

It could also mean prior to the delivery. So if your water breaks but you are still waiting for dilation, you are laboring but it's not quite time to catch the baby. I don't know if there would be before time for scheduled C-sections and how that works. Also after delivery, I was allowed one night stay after the baby is birthed to stay in the hospital. You could have a longer stay if it's medically needed.

For vaginal births at my hospital, it is in a delivery room, which is a private room. A c-section is done in an operating room which is different than the delivery room. For that you would do the waiting in the delivery room and then be moved into the operating room and end up in the maternity ward for recovery (3 separate rooms). For vaginal birth, that's 2 separate rooms.

Recovery Room

I don't think the hospital I usually use has what you are mentioning here. Basically after surgery you are wheeled into the room that you would be staying in until you are discharged. A nice hospital you are likely in a room by yourself. A major hospital you may be sharing a room with others.  If there are people around the nurse will just say "Excuse me" and get to work detaching the patient. 

[Clarita]

My in-laws didn't come to the hospital to see me and they were 10 mins away from the hospital.

The discussion went:

MIL: "Should we come over?"

DH: "If you want but we are leaving tomorrow."

MIL: "OK, let us know when you want us to come over when you get home."

It was less than 24 hours between baby coming out of me to discharge from the hospital. DS got to see DD at the hospital only because he came with dad to pick me up.

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

To me, and my opinion is colored by dealing with many manipulative people in my life, it almost seems like a manipulation tactic. It seems to me like she was trying to set up a situation where she could say, "You let so and so cousin in to see the baby but you wouldn't let me?!?" It's like she thought maybe if cousin just showed up they wouldn't turn them away for fear of seeming rude but it backfired on her because they did turn cousin away without any qualms about seeming rude. Like I said though, I'm a bit biased in my opinion having dealt with so much manipulation in my life but that's what it looks like to me from the outside looking in.

Nah. It was just my mom (wrongly) thinking since the baby had arrived visitors would now be ok. 

[annandatje]

I think my last surgery was typical for a larger regional hospital in same general section of USA as original poster.  Surgery had to be done in hospital instead of ambulatory surgical site because of serious issues.  We reported to hospital surgery waiting room; one person was allowed/required to stay entire time.  Any additional family members had to find another place to wait.  The waiting room was staffed with a couple of monitors/receptionists and security officers to escort out those extra people or prevent them from entering.  I only recall one patient bringing two people with them; of course, one was told to leave.  This was prior to pandemic.

Edited September 22, 2023 by annandatje

[TechWife]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

Not about new moms, but about hospital visitors when someone has surgery.

My mom had emergency surgery for colon cancer.  She has a husband and 6 kids.  The 7 of us came and hung around the waiting area during her surgery and initial "recovery" (coming off the anaesthesia).  When the doctor came out to tell "her person" how the surgery went, he looked at the crowd of us and said, "... ... OK, who are all these people?"

So I guess that around here, it's not common to have a lot of visitors when you've had surgery.  The only reason my mom had so many was because she has so many kids within driving distance.

In my limited experience, usually 1 visitor at a time is typical.

DH’s surgeon asked us that same question and there were only three of us, myself, our son and my SIL.