Mothers during and after birth

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:15 PM, KungFuPanda said:

I think the trend is respecting the needs and wants of the patient and it’s wonderful. We’re going the right direction. You can’t bully someone because they are a woman, or young, or because it’s your “turn” since things were done that way in the past. We’re teaching our kids to have boundaries and they’re using them. Nobody is cut out of the baby’s life because they didn’t see him in the hospital. That’s petty and dramatic. It’s a time for patience and grace and a time for the new parents to call the shots. Tradition is fine when it’s joyful but not when it’s used to back up entitled behavior. Being older is no excuse to dodge personal growth and change is to be expected. 

This is beautifully said. Thank you. 

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:17 PM, Scarlett said:

If you don’t understand that I can’t explain it to you.  The person having surgery isnt t the only one who needs support.  I was always taught that we don’t leave a loved one alone during anothers surgery because we never know what might go wrong.  

Making sure someone has someone with them while a loved one is in surgery is not the same thing as wanting to visit a new mom & baby when that visit is not wanted. It’s not the same thing at all. 

[Scarlett]

45 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Was he born during COVID?

Yes but that was not the reason.  

[Scarlett]

47 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I wonder how many surgeries the hospital does in a day.  Dozens, hundreds? Imagine if each surgery had 20 people showing up to "offer support" by blocking hallways,  filling lifts,  getting in way of staff, hinder care of other patients, fill carparks

Mind boggling 

Good grief. No one is blocking hallways. There are waiting rooms with an attendant and coffee and tv and lots of chairs. 

[bolt.]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Good grief. No one is blocking hallways. There are waiting rooms with an attendant and coffee and tv and lots of chairs. 

Wow. Not in my local Canadian hospitals there isn't!

Edited September 21, 2023 by bolt.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Making sure someone has someone with them while a loved one is in surgery is not the same thing as wanting to visit a new mom & baby when that visit is not wanted. It’s not the same thing at all. 

The not wanted  part  is what us important here. I do not disagree with that. 

[Melissa in Australia]

Not here either. Only waiting room Is in emergancy for ill people waiting for treatment

 

 

[Pawz4me]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

Not here either. Only waiting room Is in emergancy for ill people waiting for treatment

 

 

Many (maybe most?) hospitals here have a waiting room for family/friends of patients having surgery (whether that's inpatient or outpatient) as well as waiting rooms on each floor. Larger hospitals sometimes have multiple waiting areas on each floor. And of course an ER waiting room and a main lobby area with plenty of seating. 

[bolt.]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

Not here either. Only waiting room Is in emergancy for ill people waiting for treatment

 

 

Yep, and at high-volume times, particularly since covid, sometimes a support person is not even allowed to stay in the Emergency department waiting room with the person in need of treatment.

(Support people are provided with some chairs in a nearby hallway, and they can come-and-go to check in, etc. It's just that nurses need to be able to see/call the ill people, and the support people can be further out of sight.)

(Yes, it's case-by-case. Some ill people are clearly assessed to be ill enough to need their support person to stay for medical and safety reasons. It's the ones that are mostly there for company and comfort that are asked to take the hallway chairs.)

[Melissa in Australia]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Good grief. No one is blocking hallways. There are waiting rooms with an attendant and coffee and tv and lots of chairs. 

And each of those people would walk. In a hallway, go in a lift, take a car park spot, possably ask questions or directions of staff. Each one of them. Possably hundreds  of people if there is lots of surgery happening 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

Many (maybe most?) hospitals here have a waiting room for family/friends of patients having surgery (whether that's inpatient or outpatient) as well as waiting rooms on each floor. Larger hospitals sometimes have multiple waiting areas on each floor. And of course an ER waiting room and a main lobby area with plenty of seating. 

Yes. I have waited on surgery twice in the last month. One was a large hospital in the city with attendant and coffee and tv.  The other was a small rural hospital with all of that except an attendant but the nurses popped in several times to see if we needed anything and the CEO of the hospital stopped by to chat and left his card with us. 

[bolt.]

6 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Many (maybe most?) hospitals here have a waiting room for family/friends of patients having surgery (whether that's inpatient or outpatient) as well as waiting rooms on each floor. Larger hospitals sometimes have multiple waiting areas on each floor. And of course an ER waiting room and a main lobby area with plenty of seating. 

Well, it's nice to know that some of the profits of a for-profit system are going towards some good things. I wish that was the case here too. I'm sure there's a room, at least, for people whose loved ones are actually in surgery -- it's never been my experience, so I don't know for sure.

As for the other floors, it's clear sometimes that spaces have been repurposed to serve patients when they maybe used to be that kind of a waiting/family area. And there are some nook-like lounges, gardens, a 'chapel' etc. scattered around. In the emergency department, all the hallways are used for overflow patients -- so I'm sure waiting rooms for non-patients are *long* gone.

Edited to Add: There's definitely no family/waiting area in the labour and delivery floor.

Edited September 21, 2023 by bolt.

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 10:44 PM, Scarlett said:

Except it is a clear point….the vulnerability of the mom.  None of y’all have a clue about this mom.

All moms who have just given birth are vulnerable. In fact, all hospital patients are vulnerable.  Physically, emotionally and spiritually vulnerable. A C-section is invasive surgery. Think about that word - invasive. It’s done with consent (unless it’s an immediate life threatening situation), but it is still invasive. In an invasive surgery, at the very least you are partially paralyzed if not fully paralyzed. People move you around, adjust, if not fully remove, the hospital gown. If under general anesthesia you are also relying on a machine that is in the control of someone else to breathe for you. Then, someone cuts your body open and alters it in some way that is beyond your control. Upon waking you’re dependent upon help for your very basic needs, such as safely voiding your bladder. If someone leaves something you need out of your reach, you cannot get to it without pain and often safety risks. When the functioning of your body is altered as a result of the surgery, your body has to get to know itself again. After a c-section, there are hormonal changes, lactation, and then a host of emotions surrounding the need to have a c-section in the first place, planned or not.  

I’m not sure what you mean when we say that we don’t know anything about the vulnerability of this mom. 

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

And each of those people would walk. In a hallway, go in a lift, take a car park spot, possably ask questions or directions of staff. Each one of them. Possably hundreds  of people if there is lots of surgery happening 

There appears to be plenty of room to accommodate people walking in and out of the waiting room. Good gravy. Give it a rest. It isn’t what you are used to in your country. I get that. But where I live it is normal.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, TechWife said:

All moms who have just given birth are vulnerable. In fact, all hospital patients are vulnerable.  Physically, emotionally and spiritually vulnerable. A C-section is invasive surgery. Think about that word - invasive. It’s done with consent (unless it’s an immediate life threatening situation), but it is still invasive. In an invasive surgery, at the very least you are partially paralyzed if not fully paralyzed. People move you around, adjust, if not fully remove, the hospital gown. If under general anesthesia you are also relying on a machine that is in the control of someone else to breathe for you. Then, someone cuts your body open and alters it in some way that is beyond your control. Upon waking you’re dependent upon help for your very basic needs, such as safely voiding your bladder. If someone leaves something you need out of your reach, you cannot get to it without pain and often safety risks. When the functioning of your body is altered as a result of the surgery, your body has to get to know itself again. After a c-section, there are hormonal changes, lactation, and then a host of emotions surrounding the need to have a c-section in the first place, planned or not.  

I’m not sure what you mean when we say that we don’t know anything about the vulnerability of this mom. 

Nothing except not all c section deliveries are the same. As evidenced in this thread even. 
 

[bolt.]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

There appears to be plenty of room to accommodate people walking in and out of the waiting room. Good gravy. Give it a rest. It isn’t what you are used to in your country. I get that. But where I live it is normal.  

I guess we didn't realize this thread was only about *American* new moms during and after their births. Sometimes a global perspective is helpful, so people can know what it looks like when everybody in the whole population has to be provided with a safe and healthy space for birthing. It's a bit more efficiency minded and less customer-service oriented.

Apparently there are fewer waiting rooms, less space dedicated to non-medical care, and more congestion in parking, elevators, and hallways.

Edited September 21, 2023 by bolt.

[Scarlett]

Just now, bolt. said:

I guess we didn't realize this thread was only about *American* new moms during and after their births. Sometimes a global perspective is helpful, so people can know what it looks like when everybody in the whole population has to be provided with a safe and healthy space for birthing. It's a bit more efficiency minded and less customer-service oriented.

Sigh. It has clearly morphed on to people schooling me about the absurdity of anyone being at the hospital for any procedure. That is what I was most recently address . 

[bolt.]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Sigh. It has clearly morphed on to people schooling me about the absurdity of anyone being at the hospital for any procedure. That is what I was most recently address . 

To be fair, that does seem pretty absurd to lots of us.

That's what happens when you ask a question of a wider audience than your own immediate circumstances. Hospitals in lots of places haven't been allowing social visits around 'procedures' (beyond necessary supports) for decades.

It really is America that does healthcare and hospitalization in an unusual way. To most of us outsiders it seems weirdly extravagant and yet kind of old fashioned at the same time. For us it's normal to expect streamlined professional medical services at hospitals -- and absolutely nothing else. Your money really is buying you things that the rest of the world doesn't experience and doesn't expect when they come in for care. On the one hand, its sounds nice. On the other hand, we know what it costs.

Edited September 21, 2023 by bolt.

[Scarlett]

Just for clarity I agree anyone in the hospital has the right to say who should be there to visit . Full stop. So no need to kept hounding me about all the ways I am wrong. Y’all wearing me out!

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Sigh. It has clearly morphed on to people schooling me about the absurdity of anyone being at the hospital for any procedure. That is what I was most recently address . 

Yeah. I'm all for new moms (and dads) dictating who they want or don't want visiting. But this new turn is kinda stupidly crazy and wildly funny at the same time. I mean . . try to get a visual of hordes of people bumping into each other at a hospital here. It won't compute for me. And no, it's not because our horrible for profit blah blah blah health care system is full of luxuries for everyone. They're just designed sensibly to serve the people they need to serve. It's . . . not hard.

[TechWife]

On 9/20/2023 at 9:50 AM, Murphy101 said:

…

Women under 40 tend to not value those outside connections as deeply as they often will later in life.  Usually with regret at how they ended up isolating themselves and then feeling they were alone in their struggles.

I have never heard this and it doesn’t match my experience with family & friends. Why do you think this? Have I missed something (entirely possible)?

[bolt.]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Yeah. I'm all for new moms (and dads) dictating who they want or don't want visiting. But this new turn is kinda stupidly crazy and wildly funny at the same time. I mean . . try to get a visual of hordes of people bumping into each other at a hospital here. It won't compute for me. And no, it's not because our horrible for profit blah blah blah health care system is full of luxuries for everyone. They're just designed sensibly to serve the people they need to serve. It's . . . not hard.

It's hard if you have to fund it all on taxes and offer full services to 100% of people capable of crossing the threshold or dialing 911.

The reason there aren't hordes of people in your hospitals is because they aren't going to your hospitals. Your system is not full of luxuries for everyone -- but it sure has some slightly nicer extras for populations who have sufficient coverage to be treated in the first place.

[TechWife]

On 9/20/2023 at 4:53 PM, busymama7 said:

Nurses are in an impossible situation where they get yelled at and have to do lots of paperwork if they catch the baby but they also get yelled at if they accidentally get the Dr there too soon.  Birth is simply not that predictable.  And that absolutely does not excuse the holding in of the baby or the telling the woman not to push but I hear of both of those things with regularity.  

We definitely need to change the expectations placed upon nurses and make sure the priority is doing everything possible for a healthy baby and healthy mom. 

[Pawz4me]

7 minutes ago, bolt. said:

It's hard if you have to fund it all on taxes and offer full services to 100% of people capable of crossing the threshold or dialing 911.

The reason there aren't hordes of people in your hospitals is because they aren't going to your hospitals. Your system is not full of luxuries for everyone -- but it sure has some slightly nicer extras for populations who have sufficient coverage to be treated in the first place.

There are tons and tons of people in our hospitals. But there's also plenty of room for visitors. Because they're designed that way.

[rebcoola]

17 minutes ago, TechWife said:

I have never heard this and it doesn’t match my experience with family & friends. Why do you think this? Have I missed something (entirely possible)?

Idk not my experience and I just turned 40 and have lots of younger millennial and gen z moms and that is not my experience. They are less likely to put up with 1 sided relationships or ones that are just obligation.   They work hard to build connections and community that are truly supportive.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

When I say 20 people showed up for a surgery I do not mean they expected to visit with the patient. They were there as a sign/show of support. 

This sounds like the same custom dh’s family had. It’s still fine & normal to not want that to happen. Like I said, I would have asked them to leave - and we were in that waiting room for a long time. It would not have been supportive to either me or to him to know that many people were around to hear intimate, private details of my husband’s health. Whether or not they actually wanted to be in the patient’s room doesn’t enter the equation. 

[Clarita]

14 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

try to get a visual of hordes of people bumping into each other at a hospital here. It won't compute for me.

I've seen hospital areas that are crowded even in the US. The one I was at was a major hospital in a major metropolitan area, by major for a hospital that is the cases they are capable of handling. The hospital where I gave birth can really only handle things like typical births no complications, if your baby needed full NICU services your baby would be sent to the major hospital. The major hospital has a NICU and can handle more complicated births. 

Some wards and sections have more space for visitors others like the maternity ward does not.

3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

There are tons and tons of people in our hospitals. But there's also plenty of room for visitors. Because they're designed that way.

Also been to a major hospital in a major metropolitan area where health care was much cheaper than the US. There are a lot more people there. My relatives will go to the hospital for the common cold, I sprained my ankle, I ate some bad shrimp, etc. So to other some other countries we really don't go to our hospitals. 

 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

This sounds like the same custom dh’s family had. It’s still fine & normal to not want that to happen. Like I said, I would have asked them to leave - and we were in that waiting room for a long time. It would not have been supportive to either me or to him to know that many people were around to hear intimate, private details of my husband’s health. Whether or not they actually wanted to be in the patient’s room doesn’t enter the equation. 

Right. I can see you would not be the type of person to like that.  
 

Many do though.  
 

Also, if a wife of patient husband wants privacy there is a room for that if she doesn’t want any details of her husbands procedure heard.  

[TechWife]

41 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Nothing except not all c section deliveries are the same. As evidenced in this thread even. 
 

What is the same is that all of the moms are vulnerable, no matter what. Giving birth is a vulnerable time for anyone. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

What is the same is that all of the moms are vulnerable, no matter what. Giving birth is a vulnerable time for anyone. 

Do you think I am arguing against that?  
 

I am not.  

[itsheresomewhere]

8 minutes ago, TechWife said:

This sounds like the same custom dh’s family had. It’s still fine & normal to not want that to happen. Like I said, I would have asked them to leave - and we were in that waiting room for a long time. It would not have been supportive to either me or to him to know that many people were around to hear intimate, private details of my husband’s health. Whether or not they actually wanted to be in the patient’s room doesn’t enter the equation. 

I agree.  It is more mentally taxing to me to have to deal with them being there.  We had one time someone came and I sent them home with a thanks but I don’t need anyone else here.  The thought of having to deal with the nonstop chatter and complaining ( hot/cold, what is taking so long,etc) was more than I could tolerate.  

[TechWife]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Right. I can see you would not be the type of person to like that.  
 

Many do though.  
 

Also, if a wife of patient husband wants privacy there is a room for that if she doesn’t want any details of her husbands procedure heard.  

We are fairly private people. We have private family rooms as well for talks with medical personnel, but that doesn’t stop the questions hurled at the family as they leave that room. We’re of the opinion that no one is entitled to information. We have also had the misfortune of someone taking a difficult family matter, which they weren’t directly involved in, public, so to speak. They presented the story as being all about them. As a result, the people who needed support were left without because people flocked to this other person who misrepresented their authority, the facts and their level of involvement. We’re pretty confident we can ask for support when needed or that the people we have selected to know the details will be wise enough to advocate for us or talk straight with us and tell us that we need to let more people into our inner circle. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, TechWife said:

We are fairly private people. We have private family rooms as well for talks with medical personnel, but that doesn’t stop the questions hurled at the family as they leave that room. We’re of the opinion that no one is entitled to information. We have also had the misfortune of someone taking a difficult family matter, which they weren’t directly involved in, public, so to speak. They presented the story as being all about them. As a result, the people who needed support were left without because people flocked to this other person who misrepresented their authority, the facts and their level of involvement. We’re pretty confident we can ask for support when needed or that the people we have selected to know the details will be wise enough to advocate for us or talk straight with us and tell us that we need to let more people into our inner circle. 

Well I am sure you set that up just the way you want.  Which I think is just what we all agree on in this thread. 

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

I agree.  It is more mentally taxing to me to have to deal with them being there.  We had one time someone came and I sent them home with a thanks but I don’t need anyone else here.  The thought of having to deal with the nonstop chatter and complaining ( hot/cold, what is taking so long,etc) was more than I could tolerate.  

I think it is great when people know what they for sure want.  

[bolt.]

19 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

There are tons and tons of people in our hospitals. But there's also plenty of room for visitors. Because they're designed that way.

You and I clearly have a different idea of what "tons of people" means.

If there were any remaining large visitor spaces in our hospitals, they would be converted to patient care spaces tomorrow. We lack patient care spaces. Nobody cares about visitors. That's because hospitals are medical facilities, and if they need the space for medicine, they are going to use the space for medicine.

If your hospitals have plenty of non-medical spaces, that means that either ( a ) the number of patients they currently see/accept fit comfortably into the number of rooms they currently have and are using, or ( b ) they could be seeing more patients, but for some reason or reasons, the non-medical space is more important than expanding the medical space.

Both ( a ) and ( b ) are features of American hospitals that don't exist in most other countries. American hospitals are designed that way. To the rest of us, that's weird. 50 years ago ( a ) was true. It's not true any more.

[Idalou]

37 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

There are tons and tons of people in our hospitals. But there's also plenty of room for visitors. Because they're designed that way.

The ones near me are all non profit and they still have nice waiting rooms, decent cafeterias, coffee stations, and safe parking garages. And if you have to be there for a relative, they'll give you free parking passes every day. I've never bumped into people in the halls, or had to sit next to someone in a waiting room, and the parking lots were huge. Heck, there are even 4 electric car charging stations at the nearest rural, smaller hospital.

ETA- Two of them are teaching hospitals associated with the local university.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Idalou

[bolt.]

1 minute ago, Idalou said:

The ones near me are all non profit and they still have nice waiting rooms, decent cafeterias, coffee stations, and safe parking garages. And if you have to be there for a relative, they'll give you free parking passes every day. I've never bumped into people in the halls, or had to sit next to someone in a waiting room, and the parking lots were huge. Heck, there are even 4 electric car charging stations at the nearest rural, smaller hospital.

Stories like that make me so jealous. But then I always imagine myself to be an adequately insured person when I imagine going to an American hospital.

There really should be a happy medium somewhere between over-extended and ultra-efficient (us) and only being able to serve certain portions of your population, and paying serious money out of pocket to get it (you).

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

The reason there aren't hordes of people in your hospitals is because they aren't going to your hospitals. Your system is not full of luxuries for everyone -- but it sure has some slightly nicer extras for populations who have sufficient coverage to be treated in the first place.

It’s certainly true that we need to address healthcare access disparities in the U.S. At the same time, in fairness, most people are covered by insurance, and even those who aren’t do get emergency care. According to the Census Bureau, in 2022, 92.1 percent of the population had health insurance. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-281.html#:~:text=More people were insured in,91.7 percent or 300.9 million). There aren’t large percentages of the population without access to healthcare, although in absolute numbers, there are a lot of people who don’t have good access.

So, the number of people who might be cluttering up hallways and waiting rooms isn’t low because people don’t have access. 

I’ve seen large family groups in waiting rooms occasionally, but that hasn’t been the norm. In my experience, most people have one or two others waiting during their surgery. I’ve spent a lot of time in hospital waiting areas in recent years. Typically, in the surgery area, there is ample waiting space. The ICU waiting room where I waited was much smaller. Hallways tend to be wide, especially on the floors where patient rooms are located, and have small sitting areas at the end of the hallway, or in alcoves along the walls, or in open areas where multiple hallways meet. These small sitting areas aren’t typically filled to capacity; most of the time, we were the only people using the area we were in.

24 minutes ago, Idalou said:

The ones near me are all non profit and they still have nice waiting rooms, decent cafeterias, coffee stations, and safe parking garages. And if you have to be there for a relative, they'll give you free parking passes every day. I've never bumped into people in the halls, or had to sit next to someone in a waiting room, and the parking lots were huge. Heck, there are even 4 electric car charging stations at the nearest rural, smaller hospital.

Yes, this. At the same time, my father used to work in a public, urban hospital which often was overcrowded by the time it was replaced by a new one in the suburbs. That was decades ago now, for whatever that’s worth.

24 minutes ago, bolt. said:

If your hospitals have plenty of non-medical spaces, that means that either ( a ) the number of patients they currently see/accept fit comfortably into the number of rooms they currently have and are using, or ( b ) they could be seeing more patients, but for some reason or reasons, the non-medical space is more important than expanding the medical space.

In my area, at this time, it’s A. I have thought at times that an absurd amount of money must have been spent on some of the design elements in the hospitals I’ve been in. That sort of thing used to outrage my father, given his experience practicing in a hospital which didn’t have the bells and whistles, and which treated a poorer clientele. But space and comfortable design are what most people expect. Hospitals do compete for patients, especially for elective procedures, so there’s pressure to provide what people want.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Innisfree

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

To be fair, that does seem pretty absurd to lots of us.

That's what happens when you ask a question of a wider audience than your own immediate circumstances. Hospitals in lots of places haven't been allowing social visits around 'procedures' (beyond necessary supports) for decades.

It really is America that does healthcare and hospitalization in an unusual way. To most of us outsiders it seems weirdly extravagant and yet kind of old fashioned at the same time. For us it's normal to expect streamlined professional medical services at hospitals -- and absolutely nothing else. Your money really is buying you things that the rest of the world doesn't experience and doesn't expect when they come in for care. On the one hand, its sounds nice. On the other hand, we know what it costs.

There's also a WIDE diversity in American hospitals, too.  I don't think the experiences that Scarlett has described around hospital visits really match much of what many parts of the country have.  

 

[TechWife]

2 minutes ago, bolt. said:

…

If your hospitals have plenty of non-medical spaces, that means that either ( a ) the number of patients they currently see/accept fit comfortably into the number of rooms they currently have and are using, or ( b ) they could be seeing more patients, but for some reason or reasons, the non-medical space is more important than expanding the medical space.

Both ( a ) and ( b ) are features of American hospitals that don't exist in most other countries. American hospitals are designed that way. To the rest of us, that's weird. 50 years ago ( a ) was true. It's not true any more.

Here families are an important part of the health care team. It is allowed by law for every patient to have a family member or friend present at all times, 24/7. Hospitals can’t prevent this from happening. Covid was a public health emergency that allowed hospitals to limit this, but the guidelines changed over time and the public health emergency has been lifted now. So, to have waiting rooms and cafeterias is necessary for our hospitals. The size and amenities offered vary greatly, often based upon local economics. 
We also cannot expand the number of hospital beds just because there is a need. Hospitals are licensed for a specific number of beds and they cannot exceed that. In some states the process to even request expand a hospital is laborious, expensive and competitive. When a hospital is full, patients simply have to wait in the ED for a bed to open up. In some cities, stretchers of patients waiting for beds line the hallways in the ED.

There are many hospitals that would like to add beds, but it simply isn’t allowed based on demand alone.

I won’t even get into the decision process for adding service lines to a hospital and having to balance offering services that are paid for at a higher rate in order to offset the cost of the services that receive little or no reimbursement. If the latter is what is needed, then how are those expenses going to be offset? This is one of the driving reasons behind the acquisition of smaller hospitals by larger systems and the closing of smaller, often rural, hospitals. But, I digress. 

[Pawz4me]

33 minutes ago, bolt. said:

 

If your hospitals have plenty of non-medical spaces, that means that either ( a ) the number of patients they currently see/accept fit comfortably into the number of rooms they currently have and are using, or ( b ) they could be seeing more patients, but for some reason or reasons, the non-medical space is more important than expanding the medical space.

 

In my area it’s (a). We have two main hospitals, one a university teaching hospital and one a not-for-profit. Each of those has around 900 beds. Each owns one or more satellite hospitals with 50-100 beds per location. Not all areas have the medical resources that we have here, though. It’s one thing that keeps us here. 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

It's hard if you have to fund it all on taxes and offer full services to 100% of people capable of crossing the threshold or dialing 911.

The reason there aren't hordes of people in your hospitals is because they aren't going to your hospitals. Your system is not full of luxuries for everyone -- but it sure has some slightly nicer extras for populations who have sufficient coverage to be treated in the first place.

I think you have a very distorted and incorrect impression of US hospitals.  

[Scarlett]

47 minutes ago, Terabith said:

There's also a WIDE diversity in American hospitals, too.  I don't think the experiences that Scarlett has described around hospital visits really match much of what many parts of the country have.  

 

Well my experience is in 2 states, 2 major cities and several rural hospitals.  Not sure what your experience is.  🤷🏻‍♀️
Edited to add, make that 3 major cities.  And multiple hospitals within those large cities.  

Edited September 22, 2023 by Scarlett

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

I have never heard this and it doesn’t match my experience with family & friends. Why do you think this? Have I missed something (entirely possible)?

It is my and many other older women’s observation of both ourselves and other women. It’s not even a bad thing so much as a typical thing.  This topic was a hotly debated mother topic 30 years ago too.

Which is why I said that I might be sad to not see my son or daughter at the hospital for any reason, but everyone I know would be genuinely concerned if it’s not just that I am not there, but no one else is either.  And we do see that a lot more these days. And new mom isolation depression and couple stress is a real thing too.  So let’s not gloss over the real hardships of going too far in the other direction on this issue of new parents feeling they have to do it all on their own and ending up just feeling they are failing each other.

 

[Idalou]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

Stories like that make me so jealous. But then I always imagine myself to be an adequately insured person when I imagine going to an American hospital.

There really should be a happy medium somewhere between over-extended and ultra-efficient (us) and only being able to serve certain portions of your population, and paying serious money out of pocket to get it (you).

Sure. The US health system is infuriating. I am lucky to live in a state that seems to be one of the better ones in terms of helping those that need it.

[Clemsondana]

I'm not sure what non-Americans are envisioning when they talk about plenty of waiting room space.  I've been in hospitals with family in 3 areas (cities in NC and NM, and a suburb in TN) and all of them have waiting rooms.  Overflow into halls can happen during flu season or something like that but isn't typical.  Waiting rooms are like doctors office waiting rooms, so enough space with chairs and a TV playing something, but not luxurious.  When a relative had surgery to fix a broken knee, there were probably 4 each prep-op and post-op bays and the waiting room had seats for maybe 30 people.  There was a cafeteria on-site that served the same type of food that was served upstairs plus sandwiches and such.  So, plenty of seats in the waiting room for a couple of people per patient if every bay was in use, which isn't always the case, and then if one party had a bunch of people they could have congregated in the lobby or cafeteria, where there was seating, if needed.  If they had wanted to convert the waiting room to patient care, there would have been space for maybe 2-3 beds, so it's not as if it would have converted to much more treatment space.  

Here there is somewhat of an expectation that, if possible, patients have at least somebody with them much of the time.  When I had my first C-section, my husband changed the sheets on my bed when they became blood-soaked.  If I missed a pain med dose while running back and forth to the NICU (which was on another floor) to nurse the baby or deliver pumped milk, my husband or mom would have to go find a nurse to give it to me. 

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

It is my and many other older women’s observation of both ourselves and other women. It’s not even a bad thing so much as a typical thing.  This topic was a hotly debated mother topic 30 years ago too.

Which is why I said that I might be sad to not see my son or daughter at the hospital for any reason, but everyone I know would be genuinely concerned if it’s not just that I am not there, but no one else is either.  And we do see that a lot more these days. And new mom isolation depression and couple stress is a real thing too.  So let’s not gloss over the real hardships of going too far in the other direction on this issue of new parents feeling they have to do it all on their own and ending up just feeling they are failing each other.

 

I feel like this is what our DIL did when our grandson was born.  It was as if she was in charge and she let it go too far.  

[Melissa Louise]

Nobody needs twenty family members waiting around for a surgery, regardless of how big a waiting room is. 

[Melissa Louise]

Mothers ARE in charge of their post partum experience! And the baby, if it comes to that! 

 

[kathyl]

26 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

In my area it’s (a). We have two main hospitals, one a university teaching hospital and one a not-for-profit. Each of those has around 900 beds. Each owns one or more satellite hospitals with 50-100 beds per location. Not all areas have the medical resources that we have here, though. It’s one thing that keeps us here. 

Same here.  Big university teaching hospital, plenty of beds and lots of waiting rooms.  Very accommodating in every way.  It's definitely a factor in why we stay here.

It was similar in VA where I had my surgery.  Big university teaching hospital with large waiting areas.  And, as one nurse told me, "We never close.  We do surgery 24 hours a day."