Mothers during and after birth

[Catwoman]

4 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

That wasn't my experience. My husband was deployed when my first dd (third child) was born and I figured I would just go it alone. The hospital said I had to have someone there with me in case I became incapacitated and someone needed to make a medical decision for me. I had a friend come with since no family was nearby and I had to sign paperwork and everything that said she could make decisions on my behalf if I became unable to do so myself. She knew my birth plan and my preferences beforehand but luckily, it didn't come to that but that was the hospital's policy back in 2001.

ETA: This was in SC. I have no idea if this holds true in other places.

Oh wow, I didn't know that!  Thanks!  🙂 

One of my friends had her baby alone (her choice -- it's not like she would have had to be alone, but it was the way she wanted it,) so I assumed you could do that anywhere.

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

That wasn't my experience. My husband was deployed when my first dd (third child) was born and I figured I would just go it alone. The hospital said I had to have someone there with me in case I became incapacitated and someone needed to make a medical decision for me. I had a friend come with since no family was nearby and I had to sign paperwork and everything that said she could make decisions on my behalf if I became unable to do so myself. She knew my birth plan and my preferences beforehand but luckily, it didn't come to that but that was the hospital's policy back in 2001.

Or what?  Are they gonna stop the baby from coming out, or make you deliver in the alley?

As a single parent, I have to treat a lot of those "must haves" as "nice-to-haves."  That's what they are in reality.

[Pawz4me]

9 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

That wasn't my experience. My husband was deployed when my first dd (third child) was born and I figured I would just go it alone. The hospital said I had to have someone there with me in case I became incapacitated and someone needed to make a medical decision for me. I had a friend come with since no family was nearby and I had to sign paperwork and everything that said she could make decisions on my behalf if I became unable to do so myself. She knew my birth plan and my preferences beforehand but luckily, it didn't come to that but that was the hospital's policy back in 2001.

ETA: This was in SC. I have no idea if this holds true in other places.

They made you allow someone in the actual delivery room? Or just wanted another adult present at the hospital (like down the hall in the waiting room would have been okay)? It boggles my mind to think a hospital would have forced you to have someone in the delivery room. I mean heck, when I had a colonoscopy a few months ago they got my permission pre-procedure for them to bring DH back when it was done and I was in the recovery area. I suppose if I'd said no they would have kept him in the waiting room until I was ready to go. I just had to have another adult there.

 

[sweet2ndchance]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

Or what?  Are they gonna stop the baby from coming out, or make you deliver in the alley?

As a single parent, I have to treat a lot of those "must haves" as "nice-to-haves."  That's what they are in reality.

Lol, I have no idea what the "or what?" would have been.

I do know that when I had my 6th child, they didn't believe me when I said I delivered quickly (my record is 90mins, first contraction to baby being born) and the nurses kept telling me not to push because the doctor was at the hospital just not in the maternity ward and they would get in trouble if the baby was born without the doctor in there. I told them they better tell him to run then because babies come when babies are ready to come, not on a time table convenient for the doctor. Ds was born without the doctor in the room. The nurses didn't even catch him, he landed on the bed. The doctor walked in the room about 10 minutes after he was born and the look on his face was priceless. I hated him anyways. I was quite glad he missed the delivery. 😛 

I have no idea if the nurses got in trouble but the whole thing seemed silly to me. Really, what could they have done to stop a baby from being born?

[SKL]

4 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Lol, I have no idea what the "or what?" would have been.

I do know that when I had my 6th child, they didn't believe me when I said I delivered quickly (my record is 90mins, first contraction to baby being born) and the nurses kept telling me not to push because the doctor was at the hospital just not in the maternity ward and they would get in trouble if the baby was born without the doctor in there. I told them they better tell him to run then because babies come when babies are ready to come, not on a time table convenient for the doctor. Ds was born without the doctor in the room. The nurses didn't even catch him, he landed on the bed. The doctor walked in the room about 10 minutes after he was born and the look on his face was priceless. I hated him anyways. I was quite glad he missed the delivery. 😛 

I have no idea if the nurses got in trouble but the whole thing seemed silly to me. Really, what could they have done to stop a baby from being born?

With my mom's first delivery in 1961, she said the nurses crossed her legs and sat on them to try to make my brother wait for the doctor.  My mom was only 19 and alone, but she said, quote, "if my kid is born [r-word], I'll sue you for every penny you'll ever have."  Nurse jumped up and kid was born.  My mom did think that his head was misshapen from that trick.  😕

Imagine how many other young women / girls in labor (and their babies) may have suffered injuries etc. due to this stupid stupid practice.

Edited September 20, 2023 by SKL

[sweet2ndchance]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

They made you allow someone in the actual delivery room? Or just wanted another adult present at the hospital (like down the hall in the waiting room would have been okay)? It boggles my mind to think a hospital would have forced you to have someone in the delivery room. I mean heck, when I had a colonoscopy a few months ago they got my permission pre-procedure for them to bring DH back when it was done and I was in the recovery area. I suppose if I'd said no they would have kept him in the waiting room until I was ready to go. I just had to have another adult there.

 

They wanted her in the delivery room with me and she was, though she was standing by my head the whole time so she didn't see more than either of us wanted lol. The odd thing was, she wanted to cut the cord and I didn't mind if she did, it didn't bother me. But the doctors said no because she wasn't the father? Umm, okay, lol. I have no idea who cut the cord, probably a doctor or one of the nurses.

[Catwoman]

15 hours ago, MercyA said:

I admit I was not super happy when my pastor and his wife and a friend and his wife came to the hospital the morning after I gave birth. I know they meant well and I would never say anything to them about it. But I don't love unannounced visitors on a good day, much less when I am all stitched up and bleeding, wearing a hospital gown. I remember I was so hungry, and my dinner was sitting there getting cold while they talked and talked. 😉 Plus I had to keep my robe on because I wasn't wearing a bra.  

I know that sounds really self-centered, but I don't think anyone (even grandparents!) should drop in without an invitation or at least permission. There are times a woman wants privacy. 

If there was ever a time in your life when you had every right to be completely self-centered, THAT WAS THE TIME.

It's too bad you hadn't planned in advance for your dh or the nurses to run interference for you.

[marbel]

15 hours ago, MercyA said:

I admit I was not super happy when my pastor and his wife and a friend and his wife came to the hospital the morning after I gave birth. I know they meant well and I would never say anything to them about it. But I don't love unannounced visitors on a good day, much less when I am all stitched up and bleeding, wearing a hospital gown. I remember I was so hungry, and my dinner was sitting there getting cold while they talked and talked. 😉 Plus I had to keep my robe on because I wasn't wearing a bra.  

I know that sounds really self-centered, but I don't think anyone (even grandparents!) should drop in without an invitation or at least permission. There are times a woman wants privacy. 

No! You were not self-centered. People who drop by to visit a new mother/father/baby are the ones being self-centered. Some may be driven by some sense of duty (I'm thinking of the pastor here). Some may be projecting their own desires - I can imagine some people I know thinking "well, I'd want a visit so of course Mercy does." Which is a way of being self-centered. 

I didn't have to deal with any of this when I had my kids because we had no family in the area, and I'm glad of that. If my kids ever have kids, I will be sure to tell them I expect them and their spouse to take the lead on what they want with regard to visits, help, etc., and I hope that the in-laws will do the same (or at least accept with grace whatever the couple tells them). 

[Clarita]

Here is what I don't understand. Some people are being told here that babies getting a lot of visitors is medically not good for the baby. It's a major medical risk to the baby at worst and discomfort at best. So to me there is a right and wrong.  (Their systems aren't as closed off as they will be at 6 weeks old. So even something innocuous like the common cold easily becomes meningitis for a newborn.)

My eldest DS was hospitalized at 3 weeks old. It was my first and I was swayed by pushy "we've always done things this way", "don't isolate the baby from the community" to let people breathe their germs, touch and make friends with my newborn. For DD's birth aside from a few select people, no one was to see her for 2 months. People showed support by delivering meals, hand me downs and talk or video chat with parents.

The grandparents would say it is much sadder and more disappointing to receive the message that your newborn grandchild had to go into the ER and see them sick in a hospital than to wait a few months to see them.

[Pam in CT]

 

What "support" looks like depends on the person being supported.  Otherwise it isn't, by definition, actually supportive.

37 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think some of the disconnect is because we're not all using the same understanding of "support."

For me, I don't want people around when I don't feel well. Not even my dad and stepmom that I adore. Not my in laws. Not my preacher for sure. My dds can be around because they know the tells of "Mom is overstressed and worn out." and will tell me to go to bed. Then they are not annoyed that I am in bed and not chatting. ...

But some people see support as showing up and chatting so mom won't be lonely. Telling mom how to breastfeed, eat, talk to the dr. whatever. Some moms are up for that, some are not.

Some people see support as going over to the person's house and doing their laundry or scrubbing their bathroom and then quietly slipping out so the person never knew they were there. 

Some people see support as sending a text and leaving a meal in a cooler on the front doorstep. .. ......

 

10 hours ago, Tap said:

...I didn't want Anyone other than myself and dh in the room after delivery. My mom and his were upset, and I didn't care...when all it mattered was them seeing the baby a few hours earlier.  I value my mental health, more than other's curiosity. They are not offering me support, they are making me feel worse by having to be social and polite.

 

13 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

...In this instance the nephew made it clear that the support he needed was for people to wait until he lets them know they’re ready for visitors. 
 

 

My own parents, bless them, were in the do the laundry/ rental steam the carpet/ buy groceries and cook dinner/ finish the nursery room curtains variety with our eldest; and thereafter with the subsequent two, take care of the sibling/s. Deeply supportive. 

I personally felt that having to put on a game face to chat with hospital visitors was an obligation, not support.  And that drawing my husband away so HE could attend to visitors was the removal of my support.

 

Other new mothers feel differently.  Which, awesome! 

What is NOT "support" to the new parents is a DESIRE TO SEE THE BABY. The labeling of the latter, as the former, is a form of entitlement. However heartfelt  that desire, it is Not.Support.

 

I think maybe what *has* changed over the last generation is recognition of the concept of boundaries.

12 hours ago, Frances said:

I’m guessing many women tolerated [visitors within hours of birth] and didn’t feel like they could actually refuse or have what they really wanted.. I think the new norm is just the parents feeling they are allowed to set the boundaries they actually want.

 

12 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

...I don't think the pendulum is swinging too far, I think more people are willing to speak up and say hey I know traditionally it's been done this way but that doesn't work for me and this is what I need.  So even if every member of a family for hundreds of years has done it a certain way, someone could say, I don't like that family tradition, I want this and they should be respected and granted that.

 

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

For years I’ve told my daughters how to advocate for themselves in medical situations. And they’re allowed to say what they want when it concerns their own bodies. I wonder if some of this is coming at a time when women feel more comfortable with that.

Also, I wonder if the fact that women are typically older when they have their babies helps too. I didn’t find my voice and feel comfortable saying what I needed till I was over 30. ...

 

14 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I think the trend is respecting the needs and wants of the patient and it’s wonderful. We’re going the right direction. You can’t bully someone because they are a woman, or young, or because it’s your “turn” since things were done that way in the past. We’re teaching our kids to have boundaries and they’re using them. Nobody is cut out of the baby’s life because they didn’t see him in the hospital. That’s petty and dramatic...

 

The language of "boundaries" is relatively recent.  But what is maybe more disconcerting in the context of post-partum visitors specifically, and what suggests a tension between boundaries and glorious nostalgic Tradition!! is

13 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

It is very common for propriety to require the most vulnerable person in a situation to care for the feelings of those less vulnerable.

 

 

14 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

... Tradition is fine when it’s joyful but not when it’s used to back up entitled behavior. Being older is no excuse to dodge personal growth and change is to be expected. 

This.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pawz4me]

5 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Here is what I don't understand. Some people are being told here that babies getting a lot of visitors is medically not good for the baby. It's a major medical risk to the baby at worst and discomfort at best. So to me there is a right and wrong.  (Their systems aren't as closed off as they will be at 6 weeks old. So even something innocuous like the common cold easily becomes meningitis for a newborn.)

My eldest DS was hospitalized at 3 weeks old. It was my first and I was swayed by pushy "we've always done things this way", "don't isolate the baby from the community" to let people breathe their germs, touch and make friends with my newborn. For DD's birth aside from a few select people, no one was to see her for 2 months. People showed support by delivering meals, hand me downs and talk or video chat with parents.

 

Both of ours were mid to late November babies. Although ours were full term, healthy weight and had no known health issues the pediatrician said "I'm not going to tell you what to do or not do, but I would strongly prefer that you limit their interactions until after the holidays, when they're a bit older and you're not in a gathering with dozens of people." Not surprisingly, he didn't believe that holiday gatherings with so many people wanting to pass around a new baby was good for them.

[Catwoman]

14 hours ago, Scarlett said:

No. Just at the hospital to offer support to the dad and maybe catch a glimpse of new baby.  I think what many don’t understand is that to NOT show up in certain cultures is to be seen as failing to offer support. 

I think that's something that many people, particularly those who are from outside the US, may not realize -- this is a big country, and there can be a lot of regional cultural differences and religiously-based cultural differences as well. 

There really is no one "right way" to do things.

I think the good thing is that individuals now seem to feel free to buck the cultural norms and make choices that are best for them and their own families, rather than suffering through traditions that make them feel uncomfortable.

[ktgrok]

17 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

There is no way to explain to people who don't want to understand.

 

I'd have thought "we'll invite you when we're ready" was the middle ground.

Exactly!

having to visit with distant relatives - and great nephew or nephew once removed or any such thing is distant - or worse, your spouse's distant relatives -  within an hour or two of major surgery is NOT a middle ground. 

I mean, the idea of having every single blood relation in the delivery room is insane to start with - for safety reasons only ONE support person is allowed in the OR in most hospitals - generally that would be the father of the baby. So that's not even an option and it would be silly to consider it one. 

Visiting the mom and seeing the baby within hours of birth should be JUST the people the mom wants there. (sorry, dad doesn't get a say - he didn't get cut open or deliver another person AND a fully functioning internal organ.) Usually that will be either no one, or for a more social person maybe immediate family of the parents - so baby's grandparents, aunt/uncles, and any older siblings. 

EVERYONE ELSE can wait their turn. they had their own turn. 

Right now the mom is likely in pain, drugged up on pain killers, bloated from IV fluids, needs assistance to get to the bathroom, is wearing an adult diaper of some sort while bleeding heavily and passing blood clots, and is likely exposed from the waist up every half hour to try to figure out how to feed another human being from a body part that has never been used that way. How ANYONE thinks the poor woman should ALSO have everyone her husband has ever been related to come witness all this is beyond me. Like, this has to be a joke, right??

And I say this as someone that has literal parties for my births - I had women friends hang out with me while in labor and we joked about s#x and our favorite lube while I was in between contractions. I served snacks, for crying out loud. And even I would not want my husband's great aunt coming to hang out. That's the kind of visit you put on a bra for and do your hair. Not a topless one while you pant through after pains. 

(and that isn't even getting into the fact is is now FLU season!!!!!! And Covid!!! Baby does not need to have two dozen different people breathing germs on him/her in his first day of life!)

the freaking GALL of people!

[ktgrok]

In brief, the only visitors to a newborn and new mama should be those she expressly invites. And then they should come at the TIME she says, and stay 5 minutes - just long enough to drop off a gift and food, unless mom asks them to stay longer. And if she does, then you get to dang work and do some laundry or dishes or offer to hold the baby so she can take a shower. You are not there to be entertained, you are not a guest to be hosted. You are there to offer a brief congrats and well wishes OR to help. Ideally both in the form of a quick drop off of food, at the express time they say to do it. 

I did have women friends drop off food for the first week, we had a meal train, but they knew to drop and go, and were happy to drop it of at the door and not come in if I was sleeping or indisposed. 

THATS a word we need to bring back! If people knew what "indisposed" meant and we could use that maybe they would get the hint! Sorry, she is indisposed. 

[Catwoman]

Never mind — my mistake!!! 🙂 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Catwoman
I remembered something the wrong way. Sorry!

[fairfarmhand]

2 hours ago, Catwoman said:

 

YI think that was a different son.

Edited September 20, 2023 by fairfarmhand

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, Scarlett said:

What don’t you get?  Yes we have phones here.  Of course there was no ‘need’. No one lived or died based upon that.  But it is a sharp deviation from my childhood and up until Covid……..hospital stays and births involved a lot people.  My moms breast cancer surgery had 20 people in the waiting room.  My dads prostate surgery has as many or more. 

I actually DO get and appreciate the idea of lots of people. in the waiting room supporting the spouse/family during a normal surgery. At that point, it makes sense because there are there to support the spouse/family of the person having surgery. Extended family can be there to hold his hand, bring him snacks or coffee, pray with him, etc.  But it does NOT make sense for a c-section because the spouse is not in the waiting room - he's in the OR. No one can hold his hand or bring him a snack or reassure him. He's not there.

 

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Except it is a clear point….the vulnerability of the mom.  None of y’all have a clue about this mom.

I know the mom was cut wide open and had her internal organs taken out, one of those cut open, a human being pulled out, a vital organ removed (placenta) and then everything shoved back in and sewn/stapled back up..a mere few hours ago! I know she has blood coming from her vagina, and likely a catheter in her bladder, a bag of her own urine hanging in full view of everyone on the side of her bed. I know she is in pain and also on pain meds that may make her feeel weird or tired or be upsetting her stomach. I know her hormones are totally crazy right now. I'd say I know a whole lot. 

15 hours ago, Scarlett said:

The photo I got was nephew holding baby in the nursery.  With whomever was videotaping just outside the nursery.  So of course there could be a peek at baby.  

It was likely from the transitional nursery - baby goes there to get cleaned up/weighed/etc while mom is taken to recovery. Then they are reunited and in most hospitals baby does not go back to the nursery. 

[rebcoola]

I actually like hospital visitors and prefer it to home in a week or two.  

Of course I didn't know that. With my first she was premature at 36 weeks we had 2 sets of visitors. My DH's step grandparents who happened to be at the hospital for a biannual testing at the same hospital they just met baby and stayed about 15 minutes.  Plus DH's favorite uncle was touring and only an hour away again short visit.   Once we were home and people made plans to meet baby they always stayed so much longer and they felt like work.

2nd no hospital visotors we were just at the hospital for such a short time. Than they came so close to the holidays we already had plans to see everyone pretty quick.

3rd DH was at the birth but barely because of work and bad timing.  My parents came several friends dropped by one brought my favorite takeout etc I loved that baby was still mostly sleeping.  I had an easy birth and cute outfits and no responsibilities. 

When MIL came to stay later that week with me at home at my request to help with the big girls I hated it.  I needed her and I like her but its just so hard nursing every 2hours and not sleeping etc. She was wonderful though cleaned, cooked didn't try and snatch the baby but I just needed space at that point.  She noticed I was uncomfortable and left without me having to ask as soon as was able to take care of the bigs. 

It really comes down to respecting moms wishes. Also understanding they may change!!

[fairfarmhand]

17 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

I

When MIL came to stay later that week with me at home at my request to help with the big girls I hated it.  I needed her and I like her but its just so hard nursing every 2hours and not sleeping etc. She was wonderful though cleaned, cooked didn't try and snatch the baby but I just needed space at that point.  She noticed I was uncomfortable and left without me having to ask as soon as was able to take care of the bigs. 

It really comes down to respecting moms wishes. Also understanding they may change!!

Good for her for paying such close attention to you! 

[Terabith]

Honestly, I was an idiot.  And I would do things differently if I was doing it over again. I knew from the beginning I did NOT want anyone but my husband and mandatory medical personnel in the room when I was laboring or delivering, and I held fast to that (except for the fact that my in laws had planned to come two weeks after my due date, thinking that would give us time to settle in and maybe my parents to come first, but my first baby was two weeks late and so I was in labor when we were supposed to pick them up from the airport.  So my husband left a message with the airline that they should take a taxi to the hospital and then take our car. But I had an epidural by the time they showed up and they stayed very briefly.) After my babies were born, I wanted to show them off. I didn’t worry about germs nearly as much as I should have; I kinda thought breast milk gave them really good immunity for the first couple of months.  If I was doing it over again, I wouldn’t have invited the priest, the random hospital visitor from the church, or the co workers of my husband (and their families) who I barely knew to come.  But it was fine and I appreciated the company at the time. Nobody stayed too long.  And it was very helpful for my in laws to take our first baby out of the apartment so we could get some solid sleep when baby was less than a week old but maybe the San Antonio River walk wasn’t the best first outing. With my youngest I was both desperate to get home to oldest baby so we left less than 24 hours after she was born, and I was starving so we stopped at Cracker Barrel on the way home.  I was dumb but my mom supported everything I did.  
 

I do understand why relatives would come during a regular surgery to support the waiting spouse. I was very grateful that our pastor came to be with me before my surgery and stayed awhile with my husband and came to visit the next day. But I can totally also see how some might not want visitors, and that should 100% be respected. 

[Catwoman]

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think that was a different son.

Thanks! 🙂 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Catwoman

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

Lol, I have no idea what the "or what?" would have been.

I do know that when I had my 6th child, they didn't believe me when I said I delivered quickly (my record is 90mins, first contraction to baby being born) and the nurses kept telling me not to push because the doctor was at the hospital just not in the maternity ward and they would get in trouble if the baby was born without the doctor in there. I told them they better tell him to run then because babies come when babies are ready to come, not on a time table convenient for the doctor. Ds was born without the doctor in the room. The nurses didn't even catch him, he landed on the bed. The doctor walked in the room about 10 minutes after he was born and the look on his face was priceless. I hated him anyways. I was quite glad he missed the delivery. 😛 

I have no idea if the nurses got in trouble but the whole thing seemed silly to me. Really, what could they have done to stop a baby from being born?

There are cases of nurses “holding the baby in” and causing tremendous damage.  But I also know several women who had nurses deliver because the doctor was too slow and it was fine.  So maybe it varies by hospital or by state? 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Heartstrings said:

There are cases of nurses “holding the baby in” and causing tremendous damage.  But I also know several women who had nurses deliver because the doctor was too slow and it was fine.  So maybe it varies by hospital or by state? 

I have never heard of the "holding the baby in" thing. That is horrifying!!!

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, sweet2ndchance said:

That wasn't my experience. My husband was deployed when my first dd (third child) was born 

Was this a military hospital (where you would have been a dependent spouse of military personnel) or a civilian hospital?

3 hours ago, Catwoman said:

If there was ever a time in your life when you had every right to be completely self-centered, THAT WAS THE TIME.

It's too bad you hadn't planned in advance for your dh or the nurses to run interference for you.

Generally nurses will run interference, especially if they are aware.
My mil showed up in my labor room uninvited and unannounced . . . . The nurse asked me if I had wanted her there (no).  The nurse promptly escorted her out.  

3 hours ago, Clarita said:

Here is what I don't understand. Some people are being told here that babies getting a lot of visitors is medically not good for the baby. It's a major medical risk to the baby at worst and discomfort at best. So to me there is a right and wrong.  (Their systems aren't as closed off as they will be at 6 weeks old. So even something innocuous like the common cold easily becomes meningitis for a newborn.)

 

The Dionne Quints were born the same year as my mother, they were the first set to survive.
I hadn't known there was a (naturally conceived) set born in 1963. . . I saw pictures of them in Life - they hadn't even gone home with their parents, and the NURSES were holding them in while riding in cars on parade!  

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I actually DO get and appreciate the idea of lots of people. in the waiting room supporting the spouse/family during a normal surgery.  

I don't.  It really ticked me off when I was sitting in the CCU waiting room - and there was a group of at least a dozen family members, with their picnic spread *everywhere*.  They were loud. There was no where to escape.  It really behooves people to be considerate of others.
Yes, I know they ended up having to remove their loved one's life-support - but so. did. I.
 

[busymama7]

Nurses are in an impossible situation where they get yelled at and have to do lots of paperwork if they catch the baby but they also get yelled at if they accidentally get the Dr there too soon.  Birth is simply not that predictable.  And that absolutely does not excuse the holding in of the baby or the telling the woman not to push but I hear of both of those things with regularity.  

[sweet2ndchance]

7 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Was this a military hospital (where you would have been a dependent spouse of military personnel) or a civilian hospital?

It was a military hospital.

 

[Jaybee]

30 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I have never heard of the "holding the baby in" thing. That is horrifying!!!

There was a huge lawsuit over this several years ago because a woman suffered irreparable damage due to a nurse doing this very thing. It was horrible. https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/news/a62592/caroline-malatesta-brookwood-childbirth-lawsuit/#

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, busymama7 said:

Nurses are in an impossible situation where they get yelled at and have to do lots of paperwork if they catch the baby but they also get yelled at if they accidentally get the Dr there too soon.  Birth is simply not that predictable.  And that absolutely does not excuse the holding in of the baby or the telling the woman not to push but I hear of both of those things with regularity.  

Yup. In my situation I ended up with a c-section I didn't need because the CNM was afraid to stand up to the doctor. We had thought baby might be in trouble, the heart rate had dropped, so she called the doctor (who had been at dinner). He went straight to the OR to prep for a c-section. While he was enroute the baby's heart rate stabilized and was fine (I'd changed positions and he moved further down). I actually started pushing, but no one even bothered to check me because the doctor called down from the OR and yelled at the CNM saying I should have been in the OR already. He was mad she'd waited to see if things were stabilizing. In his mind, she called him out of dinner, he was dang well doing the surgery. He didnt' get called out of dinner for nothing! (lovely listening to your surgeon discuss the wine he had with dinner as he cuts you open...sigh). She obviously felt she had no choice but to wheel me up there, rather than check me and let me continue to labor. Her hands were tied as she is required to do what he says. 

[kathyl]

I was only 18yo when my 1st was born.  Induced labor, knocked out, forceps, etc.  Miserable and no idea what happened while I was knocked out.  

The next 5 were uneventful births, medically.  But the more babies I had, the more aware I became that I could say NO.  NO to relatives bringing their wine and glasses into the hospital room to 'celebrate the birth' (dh's mother).  NO to staying the full time in the hospital.  NO to the nurses taking my babies back to the nursery when I wanted them in the room with me.  NO to the Pitocin shots they tried to give me after every birth.  And, yes, most definitely NO to whomever I wanted to say NO to while I was giving birth and recovering - in the hospital and at home. 

I was always glad that we lived far away from relatives when our babies were born.  I'm an introvert, not a baby person to begin with, and it always took me a long time to get to know my babies.  In fact, I always wished I could have waited to name them until about 3-4 months old and I had gotten a really good idea of their personalities.  Anyway, it was good that it was just dc, me, and dh with most of the other births.  Dh went back to work after a day or two and I could quietly begin the process of getting to know this new little person.  And recovering physically.  All without some relative constantly trying to grab my newborn out of my arms.

One thing that kept popping into my head as I was reading this thread is that it seems to me to be much better to say NO to all the people (who ask) that you don't want there before the fact vs letting them show up and having to say NO to them then.    

And, Scarlett, what your mother did to your cousin seemed kind of spiteful and cruel to me.  She knew what was going to happen.  Yet she encouraged them to go anyway.  

And, then, towards the end of the thread, a lightbulb went off in my head and I thought 'Hey, wait a minute.  What happened to the whole Covid thing!  Bunches of people gathered in a medical facility, breathing over the recovering mother and the newborn, not to mention the father because if he gets sick he's not much use to either of them'.  I think others pointed that out.  That alone would have me saying no time and time again.

Like so many others said, I think it's really up to the mother, primarily, because she's the one sitting there with her body going through dramatic changes (and often exposed), not to mention her brain what with all the hormonal stuff going on and being totally wiped out from the birth.  And the whole nursing thing - it doesn't come naturally to everyone, something I can attest to. 

[Shoeless]

I had a c section after a failed induction. I was fine with visitors at all times, but my people bailed early because they got bored 🙄 They can't handle scenarios where they aren't the center of attention. Like, sorry I took too long to have the baby and it interfered with your weekend plans. 🙄

I was one of those weird women that bounce right back after a c section. I was up and walking around the next day like nothing happened. I was happy to have lots of visitors because I felt great.  Other women on the floor looked like they'd been hit by a train and needed a lot of help from nurses and spouses. If I felt the way those women looked like they felt, I too, would have been declining visits from family.

Extended family feelings are not primary when a baby is born. Great Aunt Maude is not the star of the show. I can understand being disappointed that you can't see the brand new baby immediately, but seriously, not every mom is ready for company right away. 

*Apologies for the clumsy writing and "I" statements..I am running on 4 hrs of sleep and feeling it. 😴

Edited September 21, 2023 by Shoeless

[wintermom]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:43 PM, Scarlett said:

Can we discuss this? 

So honestly how do we explain this? To me every birth seems fraught with emotional land mines and disappointment. Yes, we all know it is the moms body etc…..but why are we cutting out family completely? Is there not a mid ground of everyone in delivery room vs no one is allowed on hospital grounds?
 

Yes, every birth is actually full of emotional land mines, stress, surprises, joy and pain. Every new mom is unique, and every birth is unique. What worked for one mom, doesn't necessarily work for everyone. 

I didn't see the scenario the OP described as "cutting out family completely" at all. Both new grandmothers were there, and the great-grandmother invited to visit when baby was home, safe and sound.

Extended family should respect the wishes of the new parents. Wait for an invitation before visiting - hospital and home. 

I had 4 c-sections, and each one had its own drama - the last being the worst as baby was moved to the NICU at a different hospital within an hour after his birth. Then dh spent 4 days running between the 2 hospitals, taking me to baby to pump and breast feed. I spent much of my days phoning friends and familiy to babysit the 3 dc at home. 

[Melanie32]

I wanted to add that all of my visitors were polite and respectful, both in the hospital and once we were home. I’m an introvert but I appreciated all of the love and support. 

At the hospital each family member thoroughly washed up and came in and held the baby very briefly and then left and my husband and I were alone. None of them came back in our 48 hour hospital stay except at our request.

Once we were home, we had visitors, but again they were very respectful and kept their visits brief. They brought gifts and didn’t all bombard us at once. I thought they were all very sweet. 
 

 

[wintermom]

It also occurred to me about visitation at baby's birth: if you weren't involved with the conception then don't expect to be at the birth unless invited. No one is required or entitled to be there other than the mother, and in most cases the father.

[Melissa Louise]

This thread has reminded me of the way my in-laws didn't even ask if they could visit hours after two of my births (and their son was too spineless to ask them to leave).

I did not want either of them there - and one of the reasons was, that they weren't there to see me and the baby, they were just there to see the baby  - I felt like a baby-delivery machine.

And grossly, the excitement over meeting the boy baby (after ignoring the second girl) made me feel even more that way. 

By baby three, I told them to leave. I wasn't gonna breastfeed my tongue-tied 6-hour-old infant with them in the room. Or even in the hospital. 

Very much on team 'don't barge in without an express invitation from the mother'. 

Early hours/days/weeks post-partum is not about anything other than the mother-infant dyad, IMO. 

Babies can 'bond' with others later. 

If you, as an extended family member, really care about the mother and baby, find out what would be helpful to them. It's not about you, Grandma (or cousin or whomever). 

[Kassia]

I had really bad experiences with my in-laws when my babies were born too and wish I had spoken up (both in the hospital and at home soon after birth).  

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:43 PM, Scarlett said:

…

So honestly how do we explain this? To me every birth seems fraught with emotional land mines and disappointment. Yes, we all know it is the moms body etc…..but why are we cutting out family completely? Is there not a mid ground of everyone in delivery room vs no one is allowed on hospital grounds?
 

I think people aren’t rejecting their extended family but are promoting the health & well being of the family welcoming the baby. Birth is an intimate experience.  This will allow the needs of the mom & baby to be met without hesitation or awkwardness. This is only a few days, not a lifetime. I don’t begrudge anyone who doesn’t want hospital visitors.

To put it more, well, frankly. Would you be comfortable with people popping into your bedroom without warning while you are in pain, have high emotions and are learning about & experiencing all that is involved with having a brand new baby in your life? 

I admire this family for having the foresight to set this boundary and to follow through. 

[teachermom2834]

I had a nerve injury and significant tearing after my first birth. The nerve injury resulted in foot droop. I was hobbling around hardly able to walk. Dh and I were just 23 yo and broke and had no idea what we were doing or local family support or anything. Baby was jaundiced and diagnosed with failure to thrive and we were getting home health visits for him. My MIL showed up when he was a week old. It happened to be Mother’s Day. She walked in, plopped down in a recliner and put her feet up and said to my dh “It is Mother’s Day!! What are you going to do for me??” Dh went to the store and got stuff to cook out and he and I put on a meal for her. It was 25 years ago and I vividly remember hobbling around my tiny apartment kitchen in my nightgown making a salad.
 

And she was never allowed back until later babies were a month old. And I know she told everyone how horrid I was keeping her from her grandchildren.  And she always said she was there to help and support us. But no one else knew or saw what was really going on.

Scarlett- I am not implying anyone in your family would behave in such a way at all. But there are a lot of people that do behave that way behind closed doors. There are also alot of people that could be more generous in sharing their lives with extended family members so I do get it.

Edited September 21, 2023 by teachermom2834

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:16 PM, Scarlett said:

I see a lot of the points you have made…..but I do think the pendulum has swung wide and far.  No one has to bother the mom to say hi to the dad and offer support to him and possibly get a peek at baby. 
 

The baby is in the room with mom, so is the dad. How is anyone going to offer support to dad or get a peek without bothering mom?
No one needs to see that baby while they are in the hospital.

[Melissa Louise]

33 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I had really bad experiences with my in-laws when my babies were born too and wish I had spoken up (both in the hospital and at home soon after birth).  

When my first was a month old, I was hospitalized with mastitis. Of course, the baby was with me! 

MIL was offended that I wouldn't let her take the baby home, and that I 'stopped' her from spending 'precious time' with the baby. TG that the nurses prevented visitors that time. 

Basically, I think if you're not putting the needs of mother and baby first, over your own need for gratification, you might want to change that if you truly desire a relationship with the child as they grow. 

 

 

 

 

[Kassia]

@teachermom2834 your MIL on Mother's Day!!!  Wow!  

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:23 PM, Scarlett said:

What don’t you get?  Yes we have phones here.  Of course there was no ‘need’. No one lived or died based upon that.  But it is a sharp deviation from my childhood and up until Covid……..hospital stays and births involved a lot people.  My moms breast cancer surgery had 20 people in the waiting room.  My dads prostate surgery has as many or more. 

My husband’s family was like this. I get it. It can be enjoyable to visit with people as a distraction. But, there are limits. Patients are incredibly vulnerable. Their comfort is what’s most important.

My dh has a major surgery last year. If that many people had showed up in the waiting room, I’d have asked hospital staff for help getting them to leave, and they would have helped. Dh didn’t want any visitors other than me, our son & his sister for the first 48 hours. No one thought that was an unreasonable request at all. But a woman going through a major surgery with subsequent body changes and a tiny human to take care of can’t do the same? 

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I had a nerve injury and significant tearing after my first birth. The nerve injury resulted in foot droop. I was hobbling around hardly able to walk. Dh and I were just 23 yo and broke and had no idea what we were doing or local family support or anything. Baby was jaundiced and diagnosed with failure to thrive and we were getting home health visits for him. My MIL showed up when he was a week old. It happened to be Mother’s Day. She walked in, plopped down in a recliner and put her feet up and said to my dh “It is Mother’s Day!! What are you going to do for me??” Dh went to the store and got stuff to cook out and he and I put on a meal for her. It was 25 years ago and I vividly remember hobbling around my tiny apartment kitchen in my nightgown making a salad.
 

And she was never allowed back until later babies were a month old. And I know she told everyone how horrid I was keeping her from her grandchildren.  And she always said she was there to help and support us. But no one else knew or saw what was really going on.

Scarlett- I am not implying anyone in your family would behave in such a way at all. But there are a lot of people that do behave that way behind closed doors. There are also alot of people that could be more generous in sharing their lives with extended family members so I do get it.

That is horrible.

We have been invited to visit Sat. It is a long drive for us. I feel very unprepared… I need to get a gift and I don’t really have time 

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, TechWife said:

My husband’s family was like this. I get it. It can be enjoyable to visit with people as a distraction. But, there are limits. Patients are incredibly vulnerable. Their comfort is what’s most important.

My dh has a major surgery last year. If that many people had showed up in the waiting room, I’d have asked hospital staff for help getting them to leave, and they would have helped. Dh didn’t want any visitors other than me, our son & his sister for the first 48 hours. No one thought that was an unreasonable request at all. But a woman going through a major surgery with subsequent body changes and a tiny human to take care of can’t do the same? 

When I say 20 people showed up for a surgery I do not mean they expected to visit with the patient. They were there as a sign/show of support. 

[Melissa in Australia]

Just now, Scarlett said:

When I say 20 people showed up for a surgery I do not mean they expected to visit with the patient. They were there as a sign/show of support. 

I am starting to think what you are meaning and what others are reading are 2 different things 

 

 

[Clemsondana]

I think that people have really different preferences and comfort levels with anything medical.  I actually am fine with having visitors and with looking like a mess - I get bored easily and usually like having people to talk to.  My first was born by C-section after a long labor, was in the NICU, we both had complications, etc.  I had a friend from across the country who happened to be driving through town and he came to visit me in the hospital.  It let my mom and husband both go rest.  But, this friend had trained as a doctor before changing jobs.  He was fine with wheeling me to the NICU while I had a catheter, and washed the breast pump stuff since I could barely get out of bed.  He is gay and got a kick out of the nurses thinking that he was the dad helping out.  🙂    This is not the sort of thing that just anybody can and will be a part of, since lots of friends would not be comfortable with this kind of interaction.  And, in that situation, I would probably have been more comfortable with this particular friend than other people that I was closer to just because I know that this friend wouldn't be freaked out by all of the crazy things that were going on.  But, husband was absolutely frazzled, I was a mess, and baby was unavailable because it was in the NICU.  Second kid was a more normal C-section and anybody could have come, but if I had been a mom who wasn't up to visitors there would have been no way to visit my husband and baby separately because we were all in the same room all the time.  He couldn't easily step out because I was in the room unable to get out of bed on my own to get to the baby.  

In terms of whether a family is 'everybody gather at the hospital' or 'everybody stay out of the way', I have family groups in both camps so I try to respect their preferences.  As somebody who can go either way, I want the people most involved to have what they need, whether it be peace or a vocal show of support.  When I am the person most involved, I still want people to do what makes them comfortable since I am usually OK either way.  

[TechWife]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:55 PM, Melissa in Australia said:

Here the only other person allowed in  cersarian delivery would be the husband of the wife. Operating theaters here aren't public specticals or entertainment venues

I am quite shocked at the idea that an audience expected to be in theater 

They’re not. That’s the limit I’m familiar with as well, here in the US. It’s dangerous for everyone otherwise. Operating rooms aren’t as big as people seem to think they are, but most of all, the risk of others causing infection or distraction from the need at hand is too great.

[Melissa Louise]

In a COVID world, it's crazy for 20 people to show up at a hospital to 'show support'.

You can keep in touch from home. 

It's unfair to staff and other patients to traipse in 20 x of unnecessary germs.   

 

[Halftime Hope]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:18 PM, Scarlett said:

Why would you not just start eating? 
 

I really struggle with this as a grandmother who was not allowed to me our grandson for 4months. 

Was he born during COVID?

[Melissa in Australia]

I wonder how many surgeries the hospital does in a day.  Dozens, hundreds? Imagine if each surgery had 20 people showing up to "offer support" by blocking hallways,  filling lifts,  getting in way of staff, hinder care of other patients, fill carparks

Mind boggling 

[bolt.]

As far back as when my kids were born (around 15 years) it was really not okay for people to use the labour and delivery ward of the hospital for social purposes (ie 'meeting the baby'). It was made very clear that everyone who was having access to that floor of the hospital needed to have a medical reason for being there, not a social one. Each mother was given two bracelets to give to two support people (support people have a medical purpose), and no one else was allowed past the doors of the ward.

Some socially-minded mothers made the bracelets loose enough that they could be slipped off the first people onto another few people so 'support people' could take turns -- and I think the nurses were well aware but overlooked that specific shenanigan. It still limited outsiders to two-per-mother at any one time.

If you aren't socially-inclined at that time of your life, it's easy to say it's hospital policy.

A ward full of new moms and newborns does not need herds of family members crowding everyone and taking up space. They've got medical care to be handling!