How much do you expect college-aged offspring to be involved in family life?

[skimomma]

I have thought about this some since I last responded.  I taught at a university for 13 years and my particular department had a policy that I must include attendance as part of the grade.  I did not like this at all, but had to do it.  So I did.  Any time a student approached me about missing class where there was no exam or lab in class, I would excuse them regardless of the reason.  These are adults and if they think something is more important than attending class, go for it.  If it meant missing an exam or lab, it must be "university excused," which means having your reason vetted by the dean of students and can occur after the event, otherwise, no make-up.  These excuses are given to students who meet the very clear excuse reasons stated in the student handbook.  I never had a big problem with this and most students who missed anything had reasons I felt were good.  A few didn't, but not my problem.

I also had a LOT of student athletes in my classes and they miss a LOT of class.  I had one student that missed over 60% of my classes due to their sport.  These are "university excused" absences so I was required to accommodate them.  My student athletes almost always got very high grades and made sure they were caught up with minimal input from me.  Based on that, I cannot see that a wedding or funeral is less important than an athletic event so it seems hypocritical to say one should never miss class for something very important in their lives.

And speaking of important, just the replies on this thread illustrate how much variation there is in what people consider important.  Weddings are not super high on my list.  Yes, I think siblings should be able to attend weddings but if one can't or chooses not to, that would not be a big deal for me.  I would not expect someone to change their wedding schedule plans to accommodate a sibling unless both siblings came to that agreement between themselves.  I feel the same about holidays and funerals, frankly.  I am perhaps less sentimental than most, but there is almost nothing I would consider mandatory for a family member to attend.

When I was in college, most classes did not involve attendance and most faculty would accommodate a make-up exam or lab or presentation under most circumstances.  I did take some Gen Ed classes at a CC during the summer between my freshman and sophomore year.  These did have strict attendance policies.  My father passed away very unexpectedly that summer.  I missed classes the day after and did not inform my instructors ahead of time, as required by the syllabi.  Once the dust cleared a little and I was able to contact both instructors, one was understanding and assisted me to catch up once I could.  The other was convinced I was lying and would not budge.  I had missed and exam and he would not even discuss making it up.  I know I could have gone up the chain of command and gotten that corrected but was too exhausted trying to manage helping my mom and taking care of everything.  I just let it go.  I was transferring the class anyway and as long as I got a C, it would transfer with no impact to my GPA.  I had a high A at that point and even with a 0 on that exam, I knew I could still get a C.  Which I did and put it in my past.  I always thought about that when a student approached me when I was teaching.  I know students BS their way out of things all the time but I never wanted to take the chance of calling BS and not knowing that a student walked away with a life-crushing situation only to have another thing to worry about.  Giving extensions or make-ups is never going to give an unprepared student a serious leg up so why not have some grace?

 

[maize]

10 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Does it really matter to people ten years later that they were a guest at some wedding other than their own?
 

At a sibling's wedding? Absolutely! Matters to me, matters to the sibling. Weddings are communal celebrations in my culture, not individual matters.

[maize]

Now, because family being able to gather and celebrate a wedding is important to us, DH and I planned our wedding to be as free from family conflicts as possible. We originally wanted to get married on Dec 21st, the same day my parents and my maternal grandparents were married--the day had significance to me in particular. But I had younger siblings in high school whose Christmas break started late--the 21st fell during finals week. So we got married on the 28th instead. I've never regretted that. We had family gathering from many different places, and that was what mattered most about the celebration.

[KungFuPanda]

13 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Does it really matter to people ten years later that they were a guest at some wedding other than their own?
 

Yes! Ten years later you’re telling their kids about that day. On Christmas Day I had a conversation with my twin nieces about their parents’ 2009 wedding. It was a great family memory and a shared experience. 

[catz]

I still don't get planning a family wedding without checking on a date with immediate families?  When we got married we had ours thanksgiving weekend in particular so my spouse's sibling, wife and 2 kids could fly in for the long weekend from across country.  It was also a better choice for some other relatives (2 grandmas, aunts/uncles, etc) and more of them were able to attend because of that.  I'm sure that made it so some other more extended invited guests couldn't come which was fine.  My parents didn't pay for my entire wedding (they did gift us some money but we were older and well established by then) and I couldn't have imagined not involving them at some level and talking to them about when.

Not there might not be a good reason for a couple to get married in the middle of semester, like maybe an impending move for career growth times with that or something.  Or there are 10 siblings with extended families on both sides and you can't come up with a date that works for everyone.  And if people can't make it, so be it.  I get that too, I just hope with my own kids there are good faith efforts to be inclusive.  And not an attitude if you don't fly to Romania in the middle of your semester for a week, too bad.  I actually think eloping is fine too.  But if the criticial family team couldn't be at my wedding or it was an extreme difficulty for them, I'd be asking myself why we were having a wedding.  Having my people able to comfortably attend would be well beyond a specific date or location on my priority list.  

I must be a total nerd and I get there is some privlege involved (though I did work student jobs and have internships through college) but I almost never skipped classes in college.  I went to a big 10 and had big lecture halls.  I also could easily figure out which students weren't continuing down a stem path and skipping class was certainly a risk factor.  I couldn't have imagined approaching a prof with some of this kind of thing.  

I actually traveled Europe for 4 weeks over the holidays and it was really one of the best things I did in college.  I actually went with my sibling who was studying overesas and I met him there.  I would encourage my kid to take any opportunities like that.  We can celebrate a holiday whatever day I see their face.  

[Soror]

I hate the wording of expecting my adult child to do anything. I hope my child will be around but it is their life, not mine. My son is only 18 and spent half of Christmas and Thanksgiving with his girlfriend and her family. I tried my best not to pressure and work around his schedule. I know how it feels to have the expectation coming from both sides for the holidays. I don't want to do that to my kids. We would go to most things regardless of them asking but the acting like they have control over what we do pisses me off to no end.

 

[regentrude]

11 minutes ago, skimomma said:

 Giving extensions or make-ups is never going to give an unprepared student a serious leg up so why not have some grace?

I think there is the question of scale involved.

In my small class of only 40 students, I can make exceptions, give extensions and makeups as I see fit.
In my large class of 500 students, it is impossible because of the sheer number of possible circumstances and excuses that I am NOT in a position to vet, and because an exception I make for one student needs to be made for every other student as well. The only way to handle this is to build margins into the course setup that allow all students to miss x assignments/drop their lowest test score etc.

ETA: As a professor, I do not want to be judge who has circumstances that warrant exceptions.  I do not want to weigh the seriousness of various excuses. There is an office at the dean of students who will do that, and if they send me a notice that student X has exceptional circumstances and should be accommodated, I can do that. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by regentrude

[SKL]

22 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Does it really matter to people ten years later that they were a guest at some wedding other than their own?

I think it was important that I was at my siblings' weddings.

Someone less close, not so much.

[skimomma]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

I think there is the question of scale involved.

In my small class of only 40 students, I can make exceptions, give extensions and makeups as I see fit.
In my large class of 500 students, it is impossible because of the sheer number of possible circumstances and excuses that I am NOT in a position to vet, and because an exception I make for one student needs to be made for every other student as well. The only way to handle this is to build margins into the course setup that allow all students to miss x assignments/drop their lowest test score etc.

I 100% agree with this.  I taught primarily classes of about 25 but I did have some large lectures and simply had policies that made attendance mostly within the student's control with a set number of dropped quizzes/labs/assignments.  In a large lecture, I only expect to hear from people with truly extenuating circumstances and made that clear in the syllabus and in the first few lectures. I mean, you have to do everything with an eye towards economy of scale for a huge lecture class.  No matter what, you are dragging along a few stragglers with legit (or not legit) reasons for extensions but that percentage should be much smaller as the class size increases.  I would also employ my TAs to keep track of stragglers and heavily rely on the testing center for make-up exams.  But ultimately, if I have a student in tears in my office, I will at least try to accommodate even if I don't fully understand the issue.

[Kassia]

24 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Does it really matter to people ten years later that they were a guest at some wedding other than their own?
 

If it's a sibling or someone close and everyone else is there but you aren't only because you had to attend class, then I think it would for many people.  For some people, their wedding is the happiest day (or one of the happiest) of their lives - why wouldn't you want to share that if you could?  

I'm not big on weddings at all but I'd want my kids to be able to attend one that was important to them if they wanted to and I'd encourage them to work it out with their professor if it were an issue.

[regentrude]

26 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 For some people, their wedding is the happiest day (or one of the happiest) of their lives - why wouldn't you want to share that if you could?  

That wasn't my point. My question was whether people seriously remember weddings they attended ten years ago that weren't their own. I have learned from pervious posters that, apparently, they do. 
I am in my mid-fifties and have attended a grand total of five weddings including my own, so I must run in circles where weddings aren't a big deal.

Edited January 25, 2023 by regentrude

[teachermom2834]

I would be hurt to miss a wedding if a sibling or some other extremely close relation and I would certainly try to work it out but I know my hurt feelings would be towards the couple that planned it when they knew I couldn’t be there, not a professor. So I would regret having missed the wedding but it would always be a feeling that they planned it when they knew I was away at school. 

[Drama Llama]

When I got married, we had a handful of people whose presence was really important to us.  We scheduled around those people.  DH's sister was at college far away, and she was one of those people, so we picked a date in January before she went back to school.   When DH's younger brother was married, the same sister was teaching in another state so he initially picked a date during her spring break in 2020.  In the end, covid interfered with that plan.

Obviously, this is only for the people whose attendance matters the most to the bride and groom.  

[WildflowerMom]

51 minutes ago, Soror said:

I hate the wording of expecting my adult child to do anything. I hope my child will be around but it is their life, not mine. My son is only 18 and spent half of Christmas and Thanksgiving with his girlfriend and her family. I tried my best not to pressure and work around his schedule. I know how it feels to have the expectation coming from both sides for the holidays. I don't want to do that to my kids. We would go to most things regardless of them asking but the acting like they have control over what we do pisses me off to no end.

 

I could not agree more.    Once your kid is an adult, pressuring them to attend something is likely to backfire.  I’m mid-40s and my mother still tries to pressure me to attend extended family functions, although she’s gotten better at it in the last year or so.    Even at middle age, there’s something freeing about saying ‘no.’    I’ve lived with that guilt trip long enough.     But I’m kinda glad she was like that because it taught me what *not* to do to my own kid.    

[Tenaj]

12 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I could not agree more.    Once your kid is an adult, pressuring them to attend something is likely to backfire.  I’m mid-40s and my mother still tries to pressure me to attend extended family functions, although she’s gotten better at it in the last year or so.    Even at middle age, there’s something freeing about saying ‘no.’    I’ve lived with that guilt trip long enough.     But I’m kinda glad she was like that because it taught me what *not* to do to my own kid.    

Yes, I was thinking about this and realized that some of my reaction to this topic is because I have seen or been subject to the forcefulness of family expectations.  My mom was always so nice about it -lol!- but still there would be the litany of who came, who didn't and why "everybody was there except . . " followed by a big sigh.  I don't want to be the accountant kind of mom who keeps track.

[WildflowerMom]

Just now, Tenaj said:

Yes, I was thinking about this and realized that some of my reaction to this topic is because I have seen or been subject to the forcefulness of family expectations.  My mom was always so nice about it -lol!- but still there would be the litany of who came, who didn't and why "everybody was there except . . " followed by a big sigh.  I don't want to be the accountant kind of mom who keeps track.

Oh yeah, my dad has done that.   "Everybody was there, but you."   It has the opposite effect he thinks it does.   

[EmilyGF]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

If they had a chance to travel over their Christmas break, I'd be happy for them.

DS17 is getting in plenty of traveling this summer, when he'll be out of the country for 6-10 weeks. It matters to me that he continues spending time with siblings while they are still at home.

1 hour ago, Tenaj said:

 How long are you going to put this expectation on your son.  If he married is his spouse's family just out of luck on holidays? 

In my first post, I specifically said, "While we are paying for college" and I don't expect him to get married during college, LOL. Actually, I'd be surprised if he dates seriously while in college, but he's welcome to surprise me! It is rather nice that college Christmas breaks are long enough to do many things!

All of this is in the context of kids who *want* to be with family and who get seriously miffed when we try to do weird non-traditional things over Christmas.

Emily

[Pam in CT]

re weddings, and primary v secondary values

3 hours ago, marbel said:

So I'm kinda still stuck on the wedding thing. I thought about it more after people responded to my earlier post, with reasons it might not be feasible to schedule the wedding around college students' classes. And I get it, venues and dates and such can be important for the marrying couple. 

I think my disconnect is - what's of primary importance? If it's important that all family members be there, which would include college students, then, scheduling for family availability would be the priority. Perfect venue, special date, etc, would be secondary, right? 

Honestly I haven't been in this position so I can't say for sure, but I think if one of my kids scheduled their wedding at a time they could not reasonably expect their sibling to be able to attend, I'd be disappointed in them. Obviously things can happen that people can't control, so there is always the chance that something will prevent attendance, but school schedules are generally pretty set. Even for workers, there can be times they can't get off work. I had a job once that did not allow for any time off the last week of June, including weekends, full stop, no exceptions. If a sibling had gotten married then, I wouldn't be at the wedding. If my sibling didn't even ask before scheduling the wedding, I'd be hurt. (I wouldn't end the relationship over it, and if they couldn't schedule it at any other time, I'd understand. But then I would also expect them to understand that I couldn't be there.) 

I understand people have different opinions on this, and it is just an opinion. I'm just publicly working out my own thoughts, I guess, because I'm surprised that people think college students should take off from classes for a wedding, when it seemed obvious to me that a wedding wouldn't be scheduled at a time a college student would have to miss class. 

ETA: Thought I'd add - I have just two kids, which would make scheduling much easier than for many families.

This is where we are as well.

My eldest is in the midst of planning her wedding (WOOT!!), and it would.not.occur.to.her to pick a date that conflicts with her little sister's academic schedule. Because having her sister there is of *primary* importance. The university's schedule (midterms, finals, start/end dates) is literally published three years out.  It's not a big ask, to cross out six weekends.

 

Destination weddings OTOH **are** a big ask.  Not everyone has 3-5 days of vacation to spare, and even those that do don't necessarily want to use that much time orbiting around someone else's event, schmoozing with someone else's new extended family.  The costs are significant as well.  None of my generation of family or friends had such extended events but they seem to be ever more popular. We are delighted to be invited to them, and my husband and I go when the location is fun and it fits to our schedule (we have much more flexibility in time than we used to). But we also decline without a moment's guilt if it ISN'T convenient, or, frankly, if the destination doesn't appeal, because IMO if a couple makes the choice to go that route they are simultaneously making the choice that fewer guests will be able to / will want to attend.  The ask is too high.

The best friend of my eldest is also planning a wedding, and it's shaping up to be a full week in a location on the other side of the globe; and I am Very Grateful that my daugther believes a nice afternoon wedding in NYC where the bulk of their friends and family live or live near, scheduled before her little sister's academic term begins, is the more inclusive way to go. 

[Corraleno]

When I was in college, no one took attendance and TBH it was pretty common to cut classes. If you missed an exam, or cut so many classes that you missed too much material, then the natural consequences would be a lower grade, and that was on you. It wasn't something that professors policed. Now, though, all of my kids' college classes have had attendance or participation grades, with discussion posts counting for participation in the online classes. But plenty of students still cut classes for totally lame reasons; some kids just don't care that much about grades and will happily settle for lower grades while prioritizing social life. "C's still get degrees," and all that.

DS did miss a lot of classes over the years for his sport; profs are required to excuse absences for varsity competitions, but DS also had national and international competitions and he was lucky his profs were always very accommodating for those. But whenever possible he would work ahead and turn in things early, or take a test early at the testing center, rather than requesting extensions. Last semester he had three major competitions within a 4 week span: NCAA (gone Fri-Sun), national (gone Fri-Mon), and international (gone Wed-Sun). Traveling 12 out of 28 days was super stressful, but he did get all the work done and kept his grades up.

Honestly, I don't see taking off 2-3 days of classes to attend a sibling's wedding, or the funeral of a close relative, as being a less compelling reason than an international competition. I think asking for unusual accommodations (like skipping an exam or assignment without penalty) is unreasonable, but I don't think missing a couple of class meetings (out of say 30 or so class meetings per semester) for a major family event is at all unreasonable.

[Bootsie]

I can understand a desire to attend the wedding of a close family member.  I have difficulty understanding the choice, however, to miss multiple days--or even a week of classes--in order to attend the wedding.  

[Corraleno]

16 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I can understand a desire to attend the wedding of a close family member.  I have difficulty understanding the choice, however, to miss multiple days--or even a week of classes--in order to attend the wedding.  

I don't know how it is in other universities, but at DS's Big 10 uni and DD's local CC, nearly all classes meet once or twice a week; the only classes that meet more than that are generally foreign language (ETA or lab classes), which may meet 3-4x/wk. So for most students, even taking a week off would mean missing 2 classes per course, out of 30 or so classes per semester. Times 5 courses, that's certainly a lot of work to make up, but if they can work ahead in some classes, and make up the rest in the others, and/or they're willing to take a hit to their grade in return for getting to attend the wedding, then I don't see the problem. If they're asking for special accommodations, I agree that's unreasonable, but as long as they are willing to accept the consequences, then I think they have the right to prioritize what's important to them. Plenty of kids just see college as a box to check off, and they really couldn't care less if they graduate with a 2.0 or a 4.0.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Corraleno

[cjzimmer1]

My oldest is getting married this spring.  It's in the middle of the semester on a weekday night.  Between members of the wedding party and immediate family members, there are at least 5 college students (all at different schools in 5 different states).  While it's not a destination wedding persay, it is because his friends and family are scattered all over the US so nearly everyone is flying/driving long distances.  DD will be missing two days of classes but only one class session for each class.  And it's mid terms.  There was simply no way to accommodate that many schedules (and this wedding has less than 40 in attendance so there isn't this huge number of people to try to accommodate),  Thankfully, everyone of her professors is willing to work with her.  I'd be more disappointed in professors who inflexible than a student needing a day or two off for a family wedding or funeral. 

 

But then again, I went to a small college and had urgent surgery (not quite emergency but I only had 5 days notice from getting sick to having surgery scheduled) and had to miss the last 2 weeks of the semester and finals.  I'm still grateful that my professors worked with me (and changed my assignments) because I was so miserable I would have hate to have been forced to give the group presentation I was suppose to give the day before my surgery even though I wasn't technically sick/hospitalized at that point..  Yes it totally messed up things for the group but everyone just went with. 

I know absences can make things harder for professors and I would agree that missing classes for vacations/awards might be pushing it but I appreciate a world where people understand that the current thing (class/activity/work) isn't the only thing on a persons plate and to make reasonable accommodations for people to miss things due to other life situations. 

[Clemsondana]

I'm wondering if the variety of responses is related to the types of classes we took/taught.  Several posters have said things like 'except lab classes' or 'except classes that meet more than twice a week' or something like that.  I had a science class that met 4 days/week with optional review the 5th day most weeks.  I never had a semester with fewer than 2 labs.  It was incredibly uncommon for people in my major to miss class.  There were times when students needed to miss for illness or family situations, but it was rare.  I do remember an athlete or 2 in classes with me.  They worked so hard to stay on top of things.  They often did things like take labs over the summer, because there was just no good way to do a lab during the semester that was in season for their sport.  Our professors cared and weren't jerks about it, but they knew that we would struggle if we weren't there.  

And, to be clear, as a teacher or student I never begrudged students missing class.  But, I rarely saw it turn out well for students who missed class often.  In some classes outside my major, I probably could have read the textbook and gotten As without ever going to class.  But, in other classes, I'd have never made the connections that were made if I weren't there.  We had a good study group that worked to help each other if somebody had to miss, but it was still hard to figure out what was going on from other people's notes.  

[Faith-manor]

We never placed expectations for participation upon our adult kids, and during school breaks, we discussed whether or not they wanted to come home and what not. We are a very close knit nuclear family though who does not have a lot of social events within the extended family. Everyone is so far flung and busy that we don't really have "command performances". 

I do not like the infantilizing of young adults. Colleges need to end that game..I do see though that when colleges expect mom and dad to write checks for many tens of thousands of dollars because financial aid and scholarships have not come close to keeping up with tuition much less room and board, it has infuriated a LOT of parents who now see themselves as customers of an institution with very poor customer service, and that has consequences.

Our middle son attended a college that was really harsh. The faculty were inhuman. When his grandpa died, he thought about coming home just for one day for the funeral, but the school has a zero tolerance policy for attendance, and he was told by more than one professor that he would be automatically failed for the semester if he did so. As one faculty member put it, " The only funeral you better attend is your own or transfer schools." He did not come home since he had a 4.0 and that single absence would have caused him to be failed in 15 credit hours of work causing him to lose his scholarship. I wish he would have transferred. We hate and despise that university. Interestingly, in the past five years they have lost 1/3rd of their student body and have sunk to an all time graduation rate low. Gee, I can't imagine why!

Edited January 25, 2023 by Faith-manor

[73349]

People often plan weddings more than a year in advance--possibly they had a date reserved with the venue before the sibling even picked a college. I would have no problem with a student missing classes to travel to a close family member's wedding, regardless of the distance.

Graduations, though? I just don't see why anybody would miss class for that.

In general (DS is not there yet) I would not plan travel or anything that would cause him to miss class.

I calculated, back when I was in college, based on how much class time I had and the total annual cost of tuition, room, and board, that a lecture was a dollar a minute whether I attended or not. Some days, that was all that motivated me to attend a class!

 

[Clarita]

So, it's obvious when a certain lecture or class time is mandatory attendance, either because it's a test day, submission day, attendance is mandatory, but for just regular lecture meeting where attendance isn't mandatory what are the students looking for when they inform the professor of their absence?

 

[regentrude]

7 minutes ago, Clarita said:

So, it's obvious when a certain lecture or class time is mandatory attendance, either because it's a test day, submission day, attendance is mandatory, but for just regular lecture meeting where attendance isn't mandatory what are the students looking for when they inform the professor of their absence?

I think most students just want to be polite. In any other group situation, informing the person in charge that you will be absent is the courteous thing to do. So when they tell me that they can't make my lecture, I just tell them what they need to do to catch up on the content - and not that I don't really need to know 😉 

[SHP]

I guess I am hands off happy for them to have their own lives.

My biggest expectation: Communicate clearly when they are listening to an Audible series and will be using the monthly credits. 

[Corraleno]

3 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

I'm wondering if the variety of responses is related to the types of classes we took/taught.  

Yes, I'm sure that's true. Non-STEM majors at DS's uni only have to take one lab science (+2 other sciences without lab), and there are lots of online options including online labs (which is what DS did). Obviously taking a week off would be more problematic for someone with a full load of advanced math and science courses with multiple labs, but for your average English or History major, missing two classes is not likely to have a big impact unless it's midterms or something. 

Having said that, I do know of at least three people who were on the Rio and Tokyo Olympic teams who not only managed to get through premed at elite schools while traveling to ~15 competitions/year (of which 5-6 were international competitions each requiring 5-6 days away), but they are currently in med school and still somehow making it work with all that traveling! But I don't think many mortals could do that.

[Hilltopmom]

I skipped a lot of classes back in the day as a STEM major and still graduated but I’d prefer my kids not tempt fate like that.

As far as expecting them to come home… I’d like to see them at Christmas and once in the summer. That was how often I went home in college- I had a hospital job and worked most holidays and breaks to pay my rent.

They have their own lives.

In case of the death of a grandparent, I’d like them to come home BUT I myself skipped my grandmother’s funeral just a few years ago for a teaching job interview (they don’t let you pick the date- they assign you a date) and my grandmother would’ve rather I got a new job than went to her funeral, I know  (family of teachers).

 

[Laura Corin]

16 hours ago, maize said:

Is attendance taken at every class? I don't remember attendance being a thing in most of my college classes, so unless there was a test or something you didn't talk to the professor about missing class--you just didn't show up.

We now have to take attendance at tutorials  - UK - to make sure that students on visas are present and not working illegally full time. We check on everyone - we can't just track the foreign students.

[Clemsondana]

I"m not sure what the policy is now, but when I taught at a CC 10 years ago we had to do something to take attendance because we had to know the last date that students attended class if they failed.  Financial aid fraud was a big concern, so we had to know whether they failed due to not being able to do the work or whether they took the money and then quit coming after the last drop date.  Labs had short weekly quizzes so I could look to see if they started getting zeroes after a certain date.  My lecture class had a quiz or test in 1/2 of the meetings (met weekly, students did better getting more feedback on frequent, lower-stakes quizzes the week before tests, assessment had to be 85% closed book to transfer to state U).  For that class, I just looked to see the last date that students turned in work - it could have been off by a week, but it was close enough.  Obviously no one absence would be a problem, but we were allowed to administratively drop students once they had a certain number of absences.  I never did, but I'm guessing that the policy was in response to financial aid fraud.  

It happened once when I taught at the CC, and it's happened several times with high school/online classes that I teach now, where a student comes/does the work for the first 2 weeks and then disappears, only to contact me the week before the final to ask how they can pass the class.  With an online/canvas class you can tell when they logged in and see that they didn't look at the class in any way for 10 weeks.  For the record, I have been known to tell them that if they can pass a cumulative closed-book final, we can go with credit by exam, and they have always said that they can't pass a test, having not done the work, but how can they get a passing grade in the class.  I don't think that this was intended to be financial aid fraud when it happened at the CC - more of a magical thinking thing - although it probably looked like fraud when documented.  

[teachermom2834]

I’m sure the problem really isn’t with the student who misses a couple days in their college career to attend a wedding or has a family member become seriously ill at some point. These things come up as life doesn’t stop for four years and people work things out even if it means a grade suffers by a point or a prof gets snarly or whatever. And most of the time when a student is diligent otherwise these things work out just fine without even an issue because there are built in drops or allowed absences and most professors aren’t unreasonable.

But there are also those students who just can’t seem to work in the system that probably are driving their profs nuts because they don’t want to use those built in drops and absences for the big events because they got another low grade they want to drop or they want to skip the day after their 21st. 
 

My dh has an online cc course he teaches as a side gig. It is designed to pass with the most minimal effort. You can drop the lowest two labs. If you do better on the final it can replace the midterm (so theoretically you can miss the midterm and take the final grade two times). There is alot of grace built in. It still isn’t enough. Sure enough, every single semester he has many students skip the first lab or quiz figuring they will just drop that one. Obviously that is not a recipe for success. Then the student has an emergency come up and has to miss and dh explains they have already used their drop. Then they explain they weren’t planning the emergency. And round we go. 
 

I also know students/ parents and hear stories from dh about people that sign up for classes knowing their semester involves a destination wedding, a bachelorette trip, wedding showers, a surgery, taking time to help someone who is having a baby, and moving, etc… and just says up front that they are going to have to miss alot. That is just a semester someone has to take off of school. Or not be available for family life. Sometimes we just can’t do everything and it isn’t that school is more important than people. It is just that sometimes we can’t do it all at the same time and that is ok. 

[TexasProud]

13 hours ago, Clarita said:

So, it's obvious when a certain lecture or class time is mandatory attendance, either because it's a test day, submission day, attendance is mandatory, but for just regular lecture meeting where attendance isn't mandatory what are the students looking for when they inform the professor of their absence?

 

Well, I didn't miss very often in seminary, but whenever I did, I notified my professor. Once, I had to miss the first day of class to be with my husband during a medical test ( I needed to drive him.) It was serious and something that had immediacy to it. But I wanted the prof to know I would still do the class.  And for seminary, the classes were one day a week for 3 hours, and you could only miss 2. I really hated to do that, but it worked out ok. I still got an A, but scared to death I would have to miss more.

Also, many of my classes were interactive in the media/arts department. The classes were smaller and they knew you. So many of my profs would say, " So and so is out for this. Keep her in prayer (If student gave permission to share. Like I did when I missed her class once because my mom was in the hospital.)  Or they would ask, does anyone know where so and so is? 

But also, it felt polite. Now in college in the 80's I cannot really remember. I rarely missed classes except for one class.  I had a college algebra class I took at 8am on MWF. I qualified to take Calculus, but as a music major then, all I needed was algebra.  Super easy. A group of us "overqualified" students sat together.  Sometimes the prof would make a mistake working something out on the board and we would start talking among ourselves, and she would look at us and say, "Ok, what did I do?" 

It was my only class on Fridays...  So yeah, I slept in on Fridays unless we had a quiz.  I already knew the material. I still made an A.  However, for every other class, I was scared to death to miss.  Most of the time, I didn't miss any classes.

Two of my kids missed a day for mom's funeral. Their profs didn't have any issue with that.

Destination weddings are a pet peeve of mine in general. Yeah, not necessary at all.  Good grief. 

To me, the question is worded a bit strangely.  The thread wasn't about what I thought it was. I thought it was about how close to your kids you are, if they come for dinner once a week, live nearby, always visit for holidays, etc. 

[TheReader]

23 hours ago, regentrude said:

That wasn't my point. My question was whether people seriously remember weddings they attended ten years ago that weren't their own. I have learned from pervious posters that, apparently, they do. 
I am in my mid-fifties and have attended a grand total of five weddings including my own, so I must run in circles where weddings aren't a big deal.

I think the question is also whether the couple remembers who was there/who wasn't, and why. 

That will vary with each relationship but, for ex, my DH's sister missed our wedding because she had a band UIL event (she was in high school). She wasn't top chair, it wasn't scholarship anything, her parents obviously came, we'd picked the best date we could based on all the peoples' ability to attend, but she was still a little angry with me for having previously broken up with DH, so she chose to go to her band competition instead of her brother's wedding (and her parents let her). 

Some would argue she had a valid excuse. But the truth of it is, even 25 yrs later, it still hurts DH that she chose that, it still hurts me that she chose that, and she did reach a point (eventually) where she voiced she regrets having made that choice. 

So, yes, it matters. (and I do think it would have still been hurtful even w/o the background of her being angry with me) 

[catz]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

I think the question is also whether the couple remembers who was there/who wasn't, and why. 

That will vary with each relationship but, for ex, my DH's sister missed our wedding because she had a band UIL event (she was in high school). She wasn't top chair, it wasn't scholarship anything, her parents obviously came, we'd picked the best date we could based on all the peoples' ability to attend, but she was still a little angry with me for having previously broken up with DH, so she chose to go to her band competition instead of her brother's wedding (and her parents let her). 

Some would argue she had a valid excuse. But the truth of it is, even 25 yrs later, it still hurts DH that she chose that, it still hurts me that she chose that, and she did reach a point (eventually) where she voiced she regrets having made that choice. 

So, yes, it matters. (and I do think it would have still been hurtful even w/o the background of her being angry with me) 

Honestly, I would consider this a parenting snafu.  This is a teenager being petty and self absorbed and short sighted.  And likely being a black and white thinker.  Those brain cells aren't all firing yet.  I wonder if the parents regretted not just making it happen or if possibly they were dealing with ongoing teen behavioral battles at that moment.  

I definitely think sometimes these keystone moments can become cornerstones for how relationships fare in the future.  But I also am quick to let go of stuff like this after parenting through the teen into young adult years.  

I would think something like this a reasonable excuse for some.  Like those going on to audition for college programs possibly.

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, TheReader said:

But the truth of it is, even 25 yrs later, it still hurts DH that she chose that, it still hurts me that she chose that,

People are holding grudges about wedding non-attendance for 25 years? I learn new things every day on this forum.

[WildflowerMom]

Since we’re talking about wedding attendance, I have a story.   Apparently my lack of sentimentality comes from my grandmother.   When her oldest daughter was getting married, my grandmother asked her youngest daughter (my mother) if she wanted to attend the wedding or go to the movie theater.   Being young (probably around 10), my mother chose to go see a movie.   So my grandmother dropped her off on the way to the wedding.   I still crack up when thinking about that.  I am my grandmother’s grandchild.  

Edited January 26, 2023 by WildflowerMom

[Bootsie]

 

6 hours ago, TexasProud said:

 

To me, the question is worded a bit strangely.  The thread wasn't about what I thought it was. I thought it was about how close to your kids you are, if they come for dinner once a week, live nearby, always visit for holidays, etc. 

What I meant to comment/ask about was a tendency I have seen for parents to encourage/expect their college kids to miss class for something important to the parent--parent has flown into town for a visit and wants kid to come to the airport to pick them up; parent shows up unexpectedly and wants kid to go to dinner; parent wants kid to miss a week of class to attend events surrrounding parent receiving (a third) graduate degree; parent wants kid to fly home to support them while another family member has non-emergency surgery for a non-life-threatening situation.

I know college students have always missed classes for things they deem more important at the moment (whether it be sleep, studying for another exam, going to a party, healing from an injury..)  Sometimes those are choices I personally think are wise and sometimes I think they are foolish--but they are the student's choice and the student's consequences.  If it were my own child who asked me my opinion, sometimes I definitely would say I think missing class is a wise decision.  But, I have trouble thinking of many situations in which I would encourage my child to miss college classes because of something I wanted my child to do.  

[TheReader]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

People are holding grudges about wedding non-attendance for 25 years? I learn new things every day on this forum.

Holding a grudge? No.  We all get along well today, the relationship is fine, etc.  

But remember that she chose that?  Yes.  

[mom2scouts]

I read this post while texting my college age son about missing class next week for his grandfather's funeral.  That is a rare exception because we usually don't expect him to miss class for family events. He's only 2 miles away though. He lives on campus in our town because it's advantageous for him to be on campus for class and ROTC and ROTC pays for his dorm room. Normally, we don't ask him to miss class for anything. I ask him to put his class schedule on the family calendar so we know when he's available and we do sometimes ask him to help us with something, but never at the expense of his classes or homework. Also, we don't pay anything towards his college, so there's no implied obligation there either.

ETA: I just realized that another son who is married and lives in another state is going to college too. He's going to have to miss two days for the funeral and missed a day a few weeks ago flying up for one last visit with his grandfather. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by mom2scouts

[Murphy101]

16 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

 

What I meant to comment/ask about was a tendency I have seen for parents to encourage/expect their college kids to miss class for something important to the parent--parent has flown into town for a visit and wants kid to come to the airport to pick them up; parent shows up unexpectedly and wants kid to go to dinner; parent wants kid to miss a week of class to attend events surrrounding parent receiving (a third) graduate degree; parent wants kid to fly home to support them while another family member has non-emergency surgery for a non-life-threatening situation.

I know college students have always missed classes for things they deem more important at the moment (whether it be sleep, studying for another exam, going to a party, healing from an injury..)  Sometimes those are choices I personally think are wise and sometimes I think they are foolish--but they are the student's choice and the student's consequences.  If it were my own child who asked me my opinion, sometimes I definitely would say I think missing class is a wise decision.  But, I have trouble thinking of many situations in which I would encourage my child to miss college classes because of something I wanted my child to do.  

Why do you presume it’s only “important to the parents”?  One should instead presume that the adult student also thinks it’s at least marginally important or they wouldn’t be a willing participant.

This thread makes me sad.  I guess I’m a sappy person at heart. 

One can think education is important and also think family/relationships are more important.

No one is laying on their deathbed regretting missing class for a loved one’s wedding or to spend time with them.  But there’s plenty of deathbed regrets about all the missed chances to be there with loved ones.

I think the presumption that young single adults don’t value their families/relationships just as much as their parents or middle aged married people is just not true.

My grown children have expressed a lot of their peers are often depressed and lonely and really struggling and their FOO seemingly doesn’t ever deeply communicate or know each other more than superficially.  It is something that seems to affect all the demographics.  Their peers are jealous they have family that comes in a couple times a year to visit, that they are included in family events even when they move out or away, that we talk to each other all the time.

I wouldn’t guilt trip my kid if they just absolutely couldn’t be there for a major family event, like a finals week or they just started a new job with no time off available yet.  But hells yeah. We love them and miss them and want us to continue to share in each others lives. That isn’t going to change when they move out, go to college, move away, get married, have kids or whatever. Relationships take work and time to maintain, I hope they are always willing to put in that work.  Both with us and future family.

[Murphy101]

5 minutes ago, TheReader said:

Holding a grudge? No.  We all get along well today, the relationship is fine, etc.  

But remember that she chose that?  Yes.  

Pretty much. There’s no grudge but relationships require tending. And we remember both the people who are with us and the people who aren’t. And over time, the people who aren’t… well we don’t hold a grudge but it won’t be the same as the relationship with the people who show up. That’s just a fact of reality.

Once in a while can’t be helped. But if the *pattern* is that something will always be more important than showing up for someone at least major life event/important times? If the pattern is always that they should never be asked to sacrifice anything to maintain relationship? People tend to rightly take that to heart and accept that truth without ever speaking about the hurt it caused.

It doesn’t matter if it’s between spouses or other people. It builds a wall in relationship that can be difficult to get through if it’s that way for too long or too often. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

People are holding grudges about wedding non-attendance for 25 years? I learn new things every day on this forum.

It isn’t a grudge, but it still bothers my MIL that none of her siblings came to my wedding reception.  They all lived close by and DH grew up close with all his aunts and uncles, but they were protesting us not getting married in a church by a Baptist minister. We had a very private wedding then a public reception months later, none of which were in the church. They were upset about the private wedding too, even though they were all invited.

My MIL couldn’t hold a grudge if she tried, but it still hurts her a bit that my family turned out in full force down to the second cousins and people coming from many states away, and her close knit family didn’t show because they didn’t like how we did things.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

People are holding grudges about wedding non-attendance for 25 years? I learn new things every day on this forum.

Me, too. It never would have occurred to me that one person would post about "hurt" and someone else would equate that with holding a grudge. Those two things are worlds apart to me.

[Bootsie]

28 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Why do you presume it’s only “important to the parents”?  One should instead presume that the adult student also thinks it’s at least marginally important or they wouldn’t be a willing participant.

 

Did I presume it's only "important to the parents"?  

[Clarita]

Thinking a bit on this, I missed a month of high school to travel to see my grandma in what we thought were going to be her last days. (They weren't.) I did suffer real consequences at the time for this absence (school put me on independent study), but when I came back my math grades tanked because I was lost. I had good grades before then so I still passed. 

Thing is looking back I don't regret doing that at all and I think I would have regretted staying in school and missing that time with family.

I think education is very important, but there is a whole host of things I would encourage my kids to miss school for. (No guilt trips if they choose otherwise, but definitely a strong can you try and make it work.) 

[SKL]

I am very close to my family, and that is probably why I have never lived too far away to drive if there was a family thing I considered important.  I never applied to colleges that were not in reasonable driving distance.  In undergrad, I lived with my parents.

My kids are also currently planning to live with me at least through undergrad.  (That could change, but I honestly hope it doesn't.)

So yes, I attended my sibs' weddings and graduations, and my grandparents' and aunt's funerals.  I visited my newborn niece & nephew and attended as many birthday parties, baptisms, etc. as I was invited to.  When my parents have had health issues requiring hospitalization, I've been there.  Call us weird, but it feels right to me.

I don't expect extended family to show up for my kids' stuff, but we do really appreciate it when they make the effort.  I do think it helps my kids to feel more a part of the family than they otherwise would.  Likewise I would hope they would want to come for their relatives' stuff (though honestly, there hasn't been much to go to in recent years).

Of course, there are family members my kids don't even really know.  The strength of the relationship plays into what compromises we should make.  If we're ever invited to a wedding for one of my nieces/nephews, I'd like us all to attend, but it depends on whether it's finals week or whatever.  My kids aren't close to their cousins due to age differences etc.  However, I think I might string my kid up if she considered missing her sister's wedding.

Good point about the schools having rules for major events like funerals.  I'll have to remember to discuss all that with my kids.  Don't waste your skip days on stupid stuff, and try to keep ahead of things, because you might end up having a funeral to attend.  We're not skipping a grandparent's funeral over a science lab, sorry.

[Splash1]

I took a two week spring break in Florida to visit grand parents from the age of 12 to 22 when I graduated college, this is when we moved across the country from our extended family.  I always missed the first week of spring quarter at college.  Crazy I know.  At least it wasn't a semester school like my kids attend that would have been much more difficult. Otherwise my parents didn't make demands on my time in college nor did they visit.  I was expected to come home on weekends when possible, first two years my mother wanted me every other weekend but then they moved and were 3-4 hours away instead of 1.5 hrs so she made it once a month.  I did not do that to my kids when they started college.  I would tell them about a family event, trip, etc and they can join if they have time and we understand if not.  

[Murphy101]

3 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Did I presume it's only "important to the parents"?  

It sure seems like it because you keep phrasing it as though these students are being asked to do something when the reality may very well be that there’s no asking by the parents but a family culture that presumes well sure of course they are going to join the family event if they can.

I don’t think I have ever told a student to skip a class for anything.  I have informed them of major family events and of course we want them there. How they do or don’t make that happen is entirely up to their grown up choices.