I hate being told to smile

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I spoke at an conference last week and the coordinator texted me today and said hey, I’d like to bring you on as a consultant and part of my speakers bureau(they supply subject matter expert speakers to large national conferences) but my only feedback is you need to smile more. 
(the important context I missed putting in here is that this wasn’t a reflection on my public speaking; he wouldn’t sign me if I was boring or monotone. The context is that while at the last conference we  stopped at the mall to get some things for it as I was helping set up, and no less than four random strangers told me to smile as we were walking through.  His common was as a joke, but I was not amused, and really strangers tell me all the time to smile.)

I know this was said in jest—he’s a longtime personal friend and really was joking around, or thought he was. But my parents were poor and couldn’t afford braces as my needs were just cosmetic, and a connective tissue disease has made my gums so fragile that I can’t get braces now(my parents were more than able to pay for my braces as an adult and offered, but three orthodontists said they wouldn’t do cosmetic braces with the shape of my gums) plus they just don’t look great.  I can’t help but be annoyed.

I’ve been told all my life to smile.  I notice men are rarely told to smile.

And it’s annoying me today. 
Thank you for your JAWM.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[wintermom]

The US really has a thing about perfect teeth. It is also a US cultural thing to smile. The Asians I meet in my neighbourhood never smile. Apparently smiling to stragers isn't a culturally positive thing in China (according to a teen from China). 

Smile if you want to, or don't smile. You can smile with a closed mouth, or an open mouth.  It's certainly not a requirement in a presentation to smile. Do what feels comfortable for you. I'm sure you did a wonderful job!

Speakers bureaus are out to make money off of your work. You can look for a different company, or land the speaking jobs through other connections. 

[Melissa in Australia]

The rest of the world have character teeth. Only America tries for that fake perfectly straight set of teeth.  They are referred to as the American smile by other countries 

[Faith-manor]

I agree.with you. And yes, men are not told to smile. Misogyny strikes again! I am sorry. 

[Katy]

I would ask how many times she's asked a man to smile more and ask if it is appropriate to give sexist feedback.  But that's the kind of mood I'm in.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

8 minutes ago, wintermom said:

The US really has a thing about perfect teeth. It is also a US cultural thing to smile. The Asians I meet in my neighbourhood never smile. Apparently smiling to stragers isn't a culturally positive thing in China (according to a teen from China). 

Smile if you want to, or don't smile. You can smile with a closed mouth, or an open mouth.  It's certainly not a requirement in a presentation to smile. Do what feels comfortable for you. I'm sure you did a wonderful job!

Speakers bureaus are out to make money off of your work. You can look for a different company, or land the speaking jobs through other connections. 

He’s actually a personal friend of many years, so I think he felt it was okay to tease me a bit.  I want to sign with someone because they handle travel details, tax documents, logistical stuff I hate doing.

Even as a little girl people were always telling me to smile, but I’ve literally had RBF since 1981.

[MEmama]

8 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I agree.with you. And yes, men are not told to smile. Misogyny strikes again! I am sorry. 

This.

Being told to smile has nothing to do with looking at our teeth, it’s a disgusting, misogynistic attempt to exert control. It’s one of the primary reasons I love wearing a mask and won’t give it up easily. 

[Shoeless]

I hear you. This is part of why I like masks. No man ever tells me to smile. 

Also, you don't have RBF. You have a face. It's society that has decided female faces are "bitchy" if they arent smiling and nice. I've been told to smile by men since I was a girl, too. It's creepy.

Edited April 13, 2022 by MissLemon

[Jaybee]

Ironically, I haven't ever been told to smile, that I remember, and I've always been a rather serious person. (Maybe I look so scary they are afraid to say anything!) When I do smile, though, it's usually a closed mouth smile. I did wear braces, but my teeth are dark due to tetracycline as a child, and I'm self-conscious of them

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

This.

Being told to smile has nothing to do with looking at our teeth, it’s a disgusting, misogynistic attempt to exert control. It’s one of the primary reasons I love wearing a mask and won’t give it up easily. 

5 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I hear you. This is part of why I like masks. No man ever tells me to smile. 

Also, you don't have RBF. You have a face. It's society that has decided female faces are "bitchy" if they arent smiling and nice. I've been told to smile by men since I was a girl, too. It's creepy.

I do kind of look unapproachable. I have even as a kid.  I don’t smile.  I just think there’s a total double standard.  

[wintermom]

9 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

He’s actually a personal friend of many years, so I think he felt it was okay to tease me a bit.  I want to sign with someone because they handle travel details, tax documents, logistical stuff I hate doing.

Even as a little girl people were always telling me to smile, but I’ve literally had RBF since 1981.

That didn't come over clearly in your op. Btw, men in professional speaking circuits in Canada and the US fall under similar 'encouragement' to have nice teeth and smile. My fil got his cosmetic dental work written off on his taxes as job requirements. He was a professional speaker, used a speakers bureau to help them out, but got most of his jobs by word-of-mouth and made far more money by directly working with the organizations.

ETA: You are gorgeous. I'd be scared that you were angry. Why not work in some dry humour into your presentation? You don't have to smile at all then. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by wintermom

[elegantlion]

I broke my front teeth out as a kid. As an adult I couldn't afford the new crowns. Finally had them done a few years ago. Until then I rarely smiled, so I get it. 

We had someone come in for career coaching a few months ago. She must have had the "you need to smile more" thing told to her as well. Everytime she wasn't talking, she was smiling. It was overt. Not like a nervous smile, but a forced one. I looked faked and I kind of hated it. 

Years ago, I was watching HGTV something about Old Houses. The host smiled whenever he ended a scene. It wasn't as overt and didn't seem forced, more like habit. 

You be you. I assume they're wanting you for your expertise not your smile. So yeah, I agree with you. 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

People can smile with their eyes and their voice. They can make their spoken presentations friendly and personable. None of this requires teeth. (Well, clear speech does require teeth but you know what I mean). 
 

p.s.  some people do win the dental lottery and have nice straight teeth with no need of braces for cosmetic or any other reasons. It bugs me that people make assumptions about that too….

[katilac]

24 minutes ago, wintermom said:

 The Asians I meet in my neighbourhood never smile.  

I'm sure this must vary extensively; Asia's pretty dang big. The Asians in my neighborhood and surrounding community smile all the time, exchange greetings, and wave enthusiastically when they don't have enough English for that. 

23 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

The rest of the world have character teeth. Only America tries for that fake perfectly straight set of teeth.  They are referred to as the American smile by other countries 

Sounds legit. I never thought I was terribly preoccupied by teeth, but, when we started watching a few BBC shows, it took a few episodes before we quit noticing the lack of orthodontics, lol. Because you will of course see the occasional person in real life with imperfect teeth, but it's quite rare on American tv. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I do get asked frequently if I’m angry.  I’m usually not; I’m just annoyed that I’m out in public instead of at home reading my books.

But I think it annoys me a lot because it’s been lifelong and because nobody ever tells DH to smile.  

[Rosie_0801]

The only personal remark I hate than being told to smile is being told to breathe.

They are *my* lungs, for goodness sakes!

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

The only personal remark I hate than being told to smile is being told to breathe.

They are *my* lungs, for goodness sakes!

This too lol. Hate it.

[MEmama]

32 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I do kind of look unapproachable. I have even as a kid.  I don’t smile.  I just think there’s a total double standard.  

Ummm…unapproachable is not a word that would ever come to my mind. You’re stunning!

And yes there is a double standard. No man has ever been told to smile nor had it expected of them. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by MEmama

[wintermom]

11 minutes ago, MEmama said:

And yes there is a double standard. No man has ever been told to smile nor had it expected of them. 

Someone got my ds to smile for his theatre head shot. They would have told him, as he sure doesn't smile for photos otherwise. 🤣

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I’ve been told all my life to smile.  I notice men are rarely told to smile.

Maybe I used to work with too many men. I hear men get that advice too. A lot ignore the advice unless they want a promotion. 

I did dance when I was little so smiling was so ingrained in me that I will smile with tears streaming down my face and while I'm trembling in fear. I had to learn to smile less professionally; apparently it made some of the foreign clients think I was eye candy.

[kbutton]

I hear you!

I have been told I am intimidating. When I was in a teacher ed program, I was sent to the Communication Arts department because I was told I didn't make enough facial expressions. I can say that sometimes that's because I hate having my glasses slide down, and it's hard to get my glasses secure enough without having sore spots behind my ears.  

Anyway, it's annoying. I seem to be able to be personable enough without needing to look like I am trying way too hard to be an extrovert. 

[gardenmom5]

I'm on the autism spectrum - I recall perfect strangers telling me to smile - it didn't leave me kindly disposed towards them.  I get it.

As a public speaker - smiling gives a friendlier vibe to your audience so they'll be more likely to listen to what you are saying (instead of how you are saying it.).   Yes - male salesmen and speakers are given that same advice because it's about making a sale.

as an audience member - I'd tell him to mind his own business, but that's not what you'll be.

can you work on relaxing your facial muscles?  Can you do a Mona Lisa smile with your mouth closed?

[gardenmom5]

51 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I do get asked frequently if I’m angry.  I’m usually not; I’m just annoyed that I’m out in public instead of at home reading my books.

But I think it annoys me a lot because it’s been lifelong and because nobody ever tells DH to smile.  

does he smile?  have a relaxed face?  have a sour face that scares people?

[katilac]

28 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Maybe I used to work with too many men. I hear men get that advice too. A lot ignore the advice unless they want a promotion. 

What type of work? I have never, in my entire life, heard a male past puberty being told to smile (except for a photo). Certainly not in the workplace, and I worked with plenty of men. 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Jaybee said:

Ironically, I haven't ever been told to smile, that I remember, and I've always been a rather serious person. (Maybe I look so scary they are afraid to say anything!) When I do smile, though, it's usually a closed mouth smile. I did wear braces, but my teeth are dark due to tetracycline as a child, and I'm self-conscious of them

I'm curious, did you ever have strangers put their hand on your belly when you were pregnant?  No one ever did that to me but most of my friends did have that happen.  In fact only one stranger ever even asked if I was pregnant, I was 8 months along, wearing a maternity dress, and rubbing my belly because the baby was kicking.  I figured I had a GTF away from me expression most of the time.

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

The rest of the world have character teeth. Only America tries for that fake perfectly straight set of teeth.  They are referred to as the American smile by other countries 

I once went to a triathlon with a Danish friend.  A Danish man won, and he had huge, too-straight and too-white teeth.  I commented on them, and my friend said, "Oh, a real viking, eh?" I had no idea huge ultrawhite teeth was a viking thing. I thought it was bad veneers.  When I said that my friend laughed.  Maybe it's an American and a viking thing?

[Clarita]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

What type of work? I have never, in my entire life, heard a male past puberty being told to smile (except for a photo).

Engineering, but we also get told a lot of other rules that might be perceived as common sense elsewhere. Like, you need to have your clothes on in the office to how close you should stand near a person.

[Jaybee]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

I'm curious, did you ever have strangers put their hand on your belly when you were pregnant?  No one ever did that to me but most of my friends did have that happen.  In fact only one stranger ever even asked if I was pregnant, I was 8 months along, wearing a maternity dress, and rubbing my belly because the baby was kicking.  I figured I had a GTF away from me expression most of the time.

Ha! Once or twice, but only a close friend. It wasn't standard practice.

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I spoke at an conference last week and the coordinator texted me today and said hey, I’d like to bring you on as a consultant and part of my speakers bureau(they supply subject matter expert speakers to large national conferences) but my only feedback is you need to smile more.

I know this was said in jest—he’s a longtime personal friend and really was joking around, or thought he was. But my parents were poor and couldn’t afford braces as my needs were just cosmetic, and a connective tissue disease has made my gums so fragile that I can’t get braces now(my parents were more than able to pay for my braces as an adult and offered, but three orthodontists said they wouldn’t do cosmetic braces with the shape of my gums) plus they just don’t look great.  I can’t help but be annoyed.

I’ve been told all my life to smile.  I notice men are rarely told to smile.

And it’s annoying me today. 
Thank you for your JAWM.

Personally, I think it is an assinine request.  Not everything requires a smiling person.  Professionals are there to do professional things.  And you are right, that seems sexist. 

[HS Mom in NC]

It's an annoying American thing.  The US is an extrovert dominant culture, so we introverts have to put up with this nonsense all the time.  I watch a  Youtube personality from Germany.  Germans joke that if stranger on the street is smiling at you, get them to speak a little.  If they speak English, they're from the US.  If they speak German, they've escaped from a mental institution.

Edited April 14, 2022 by HS Mom in NC

[wintermom]

21 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

It's an annoying American thing.  The US is a extrovert dominant culture, so we introverts have to put up with this nonsense all the time.  I watch a German Youtube personality from Germany.  Germans joke that if stranger on the street is smiling at you, get them to speak a little.  If they speak English they're from the US.  If they speak German, they've escaped from a mental institution.

Apparently this is a similar thought process for China. Smiling is a private, more personal thing for family. 

I used to teach mom and tot swimming lessons, and the smiles the Asian moms gave their babies were out of this world, charming and lovely. 

1 hour ago, katilac said:

I'm sure this must vary extensively; Asia's pretty dang big. The Asians in my neighborhood and surrounding community smile all the time, exchange greetings, and wave enthusiastically when they don't have enough English for that. 

Sounds legit. I never thought I was terribly preoccupied by teeth, but, when we started watching a few BBC shows, it took a few episodes before we quit noticing the lack of orthodontics, lol. Because you will of course see the occasional person in real life with imperfect teeth, but it's quite rare on American tv. 

Yes, I should have specified China. Laosians, Thai, Vietnamese, Philipino, all smile a lot. For the Chinese, smiling is for family and maybe close friends. Not strangers, for similar reasons to the German post above. Though Chinese immigrants living in North America do tend to follow the local customs, especially in work situations. But out on the street, passing strangers, usually they have a neutral face.

[MercyA]

Goodness, you're beautiful.

I actually didn't know that asking women to smile was a common or sexist thing until I read about it here. I would have just thought it was an odd thing to say, or maybe even friendly. And then a couple years ago a random guy told me I should smile and I was like, "hey..." 

[BusyMom5]

In your context,  I don't think it's sexist.  If you are going to be publicly speaking,  there are lots of facial expressions,  gestures, tones, etc. That help you relate to your audience.  If you speak in a monotone voice, your audience isn't going to pay attention no matter how interesting your topic. I think if it were me, I would practice some speaking on video, to see what your face does when you talk- also listen to your voice!  It doesn't need to be a big smiley grin, but if you look like you enjoy your topic, and are enthusiastic about presenting it, your audience is more likely to enjoy listening to you and remember more of what you say.

[*****]

I guess I am  usually lost in my own thoughts, an introvert. I have been told to smile more, so in private when I remember, I sometimes practice. But when you are out and about and you have lists in your brain of what you have to do that day, or where to go, it is hard to remember ...oh yeah, and smile.  I flew out of town this past week...and I enjoyed the mask wearing again...so yeah, I understand your frustration. 

[Mom_to3]

Can you try to videotape yourself and see if you can practice just pulling up the corners of your mouth (no need for a wide open-mouthed smile!)? You do look angry and not happy to be there...Perhaps they way you deliver your message overcomes that impression, but I would take your friend's suggestion to heart. Content is only part of the message unfortunately - I have seen terrible content win over an audience because of wonderful execution, and truly stellar work get ignored because of poor presentation skills.

That said, I have actually noticed that in general, I personally find people more beautiful and approachable with masks. It's very odd. Perhaps it is because the focus is then on the eyes.

[wathe]

I hate being told to smile.  I take enough sexist crap every day at work - enough to make anyone cranky.  I am not going also to smile and pretend I like it, dammit.

My takeout cup came with a command to smile recently.  I was not impressed.

[prairiewindmomma]

It is annoying.

I can come across as RBF also. Wearing softer colors, not pulling my hair back, and using more open gestures will make me seem more approachable without having to smile….but I hate having to adjust myself in order to appear friendly. It’s especially annoying when I am viewed as less competent if I am friendlier. The double standards forced on women are impossible to achieve.

Fwiw, I dream of wearing black every day, shaving my head, and giving no f—-s. I will probably get bright green glasses when that day comes. Lolz.

[Tanaqui]

Oh, man, if I got a "smile" command at a fast food place I would be back in there talking to the manager about my dead father. I have absolutely no compunction about letting them think this is a recent tragedy instead of long-ago one if it embarrasses the cashier into learning some manners.

[Carrie12345]

I have a missing tooth not all that far back, and being told to smile makes me want to knock one out of the other person’s head. 😜 

Everyone can feel free to debate the concept off RBF, which I don’t think your have, at least not in that pic!

BUT, I was on a camera-on virtual meeting yesterday, and I promise that my completely neutral, listening intently, glad to be there face was conveying STRONG misinformation! I was genuinely shocked by how annoyed and disapproving I looked. I know I haven’t looked that way when participating in conversation, but I am apparently the very definition of RBF when I’m only listening. There’s no denying it. *I would not want to engage with me after that.
Also, I can’t seem to un-cock my head while listening, which probably doesn’t help.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Oh—he wasn’t talking about while I was presenting.  I minored in theater and public speaking is the same to me as giving a dramatic monologue in a lot of ways. All the participant feedback I get is that I can take boring subject matter and make in entertaining and engaging.

The context is that while at the last conference we  stopped at the mall to get some things for it as I was helping set up, and no less than four random strangers told me to smile as we were walking through.  His common was as a joke, but I was not amused, and really strangers tell me all the time to smile.

And I do not want to. Lol. My husband’s face is probably more relaxed, but I’ve never heard of a man being told to smile by strangers.  I’ve also noticed that when I don’t wear makeup, which I prefer not to, strangers feel totally entitled to ask if I’m tired. I don’t get it. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Katy]

4 strangers told you to smile in the time it took to set up something? What is wrong with people?

[MEmama]

52 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Oh—he wasn’t talking about while I was presenting.  I minored in theater and public speaking is the same to me as giving a dramatic monologue in a lot of ways. All the participant feedback I get is that I can take boring subject matter and make in entertaining and engaging.

The context is that while at the last conference we  stopped at the mall to get some things for it as I was helping set up, and no less than four random strangers told me to smile as we were walking through.  His common was as a joke, but I was not amused, and really strangers tell me all the time to smile.

And I do not want to. Lol. My husband’s face is probably more relaxed, but I’ve never heard of a man being told to smile by strangers.  I’ve also noticed that when I don’t wear makeup, which I prefer not to, strangers feel totally entitled to ask if I’m tired. I don’t get it. 

What’s to get? We exist to please men, full stop. 
Thanks, patriarchy. 

(And yes, plenty of women fall victim to the messaging of the patriarchy. It’s not an all-men or only-men thing.)

[Emba]

Random people (or male acquaintances) have probably not told me to smile  since I was in my 20s. I don’t know why it has stopped. I don’t think it is because I look any more approachable. In public I very deliberately do not smile at most men, though I do more often smile at women.

I had a friend tell me how she hated strangers touching her belly when she was pregnant. She thought it was because she was short , but I’m short too and only one stranger (or anyone outside of family) ever touched my belly when I was pregnant. She was a friend of a friend I had just been introduced to, and I’ve always assumed that it was her personality more than any approachability on my part that made her think this was okay. I have an fairly decent “don’t touch me force field”.

eta: I feel your pain. I hate being told to smile, especially by strangers.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Emba

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Oh—he wasn’t talking about while I was presenting.  I minored in theater and public speaking is the same to me as giving a dramatic monologue in a lot of ways. All the participant feedback I get is that I can take boring subject matter and make in entertaining and engaging.

The context is that while at the last conference we  stopped at the mall to get some things for it as I was helping set up, and no less than four random strangers told me to smile as we were walking through.  His common was as a joke, but I was not amused, and really strangers tell me all the time to smile.

And I do not want to. Lol. My husband’s face is probably more relaxed, but I’ve never heard of a man being told to smile by strangers.  I’ve also noticed that when I don’t wear makeup, which I prefer not to, strangers feel totally entitled to ask if I’m tired. I don’t get it. 

We can imagine a whole lot of things that people might be thinking when they say a quick remark. We might be completely wrong, too. 

I like to smile at strangers I pass on the street. I wasn't expected one of the recipients of my smile to yell at me, "Stop smiling at me! Don't look at me!" 

That comment didn't stop me from smiling at other strangers, just like the comments for you to start to smile is not going to cause you to suddenly start smiling. Nope, not gonna happen. 😉

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

4 strangers told you to smile in the time it took to set up something? What is wrong with people?

We were walking through the mall. So maybe in 2 hours? But literally this has happened my whole life, even as a young teen.

When I was 13 we moved and were looking for a new church.  When we were leaving one some strange older guy who was the door greeter/goodbyer was like, “You need to smile more! I’m not opening the door the till you smile!” After about a minute of this my dad told him to knock it off and we never went back to that church h again. 

[wintermom]

Maybe guys are a little fixated on people's lips? Just saying...  😅

Edited April 14, 2022 by wintermom

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

2 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Maybe guys are a little fixated on people's lips? Just saying...  😅

Hahaha! I always assumed it was the stereotype of sweet, happy women, but maybe you’re onto something.  

[maize]

I have the opposite of RBF--my mouth naturally turns up when at rest.

Believe it or not, that got me in trouble on a regular basis growing up--adults always thought I was smirking in serious situations (or especially when being reprimanded for something) and got mad at me.

You can't win.

Edited April 14, 2022 by maize

[Katy]

I think a lot of men, especially single men without sisters, think of women and girls as objects instead of people, so it’s fine to demand the objects be more pleasant to fit their fantasy. DH said he had never seen or heard of anyone behaving like this. He was horrified when I was reading him this thread last night. He couldn’t imagine telling anyone to smile, though once when a woman glared at him coming out of a convenience store he was tempted to apologize. He has sisters, neither of whom are afraid of confrontation. 

I recently heard Jordan Peterson talk about the phenomenon of men being terrified to have a relationship with a woman. They wouldn’t speak to women, pretended it was because they were too intimidated but he thought it was because they preferred their fantasy to a real person who would have expectations, demands, and flaws. 

[Indigo Blue]

It’s coincidental that you would post this as I’ve recently discovered that my face doesn’t seem to reflect what my emotions are on the inside. I have no idea if it’s always been this way, but it could just be my age is making my face seem more serious? I was literally feeling very happy once and then caught a glimpse of myself in the visor mirror. I looked stern and serious, but I didn’t feel that way at all! That’s when I first noticed and starting thinking about it. 
 

In the past, I’ve been told to smile more, but I’ve also been told that it seems I’m always smiling. 🤷‍♀️

[OH_Homeschooler]

https://tenor.com/3Df1.gif

🙂