Potential issues with worldwide food distribution as a result of the invasion of Urkaine.

[Jaybee]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I think it's a great thing to talk about. Beyond the potential monetary savings I think gardening is great for physical and mental health for most of us.

I think not gardening is better for my mental health.🤪

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

OP did mention not everyone can garden, though, and it's nice if you can. But if gardening for myself stands between me and hunger, well, I'm taking hunger, I guess. Idk. 

Here too. Wouldn't hurt me to lose some weight...

We live in the suburbs and have bad rocky soil and brutal summers. Some people in our area do have good gardens, but they have lived here a long time and know how to work with the soil/climate. I don't. I grew up in another state with my parents having a large garden, but about the time I was old enough to really learn from it, they quit having one, because enough extended family and friends gave us produce, and my dad wasn't able to help with it much (and my mom just got tired!). Everything would have to be learned from scratch by me. We had a small garden two consecutive years many years ago, but it was in a very different climate with good soil, so wasn't that hard to learn. If I could grow anything, it would take a big initial outlay that we don't have, and I'd need a bigger freezer. I did try to do a little bit of container gardening. My tomatoes didn't produce much. I couldn't figure out what was going on with my herbs until I finally saw this:

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Jaybee

[regentrude]

45 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

That's really shocking to me that someone could work 40 hrs/week in a garden and only get 1/3 of the produce needed to feed one person. What is she growing and what is she buying? If the 70% of her diet that she is buying includes meat, dairy, eggs, grains, non-homemade baked goods, etc., then maybe it makes more sense.

She gets enough seasonal veggies to be fine during growing season, but not enough to live on it during winter/spring. She stores in her root cellar, dries, cans. But there's no way her stored squash and cabbages last until the summer. She may be able to grow enough dry beans. But for example, she couldn't grow enough potatoes the last few years to last through the winter. The moles got all the sweet potatoes last year. Lots of critters: deer, rabbits - it's a constant battle. She grows blueberries and raspberries, but it's not a good area for fruit trees except for a few native peach trees. So she has to buy almost all fruit.

She doesn't grow any grains and no longer keeps cattle (as an elderly widow, that became too much). Has to purchase dairy, eggs, meat. She bakes everything from scratch, but needs to purchase flour. 

And it's a large property. She is slowly shrinking the growing area as she ages. In the summer, alone the mowing around/between the produce rows takes up eight hours a week (the grass grows insanely fast in this humid and hot climate. And the weeds. Oh my goodness, the weeds.... And to be fair, some of the time is also maintaining the other plants, not just the veggies. Weeding the herb garden. More weeding. Did I mention weeding?

Edited February 27, 2022 by regentrude

[regentrude]

20 minutes ago, livetoread said:

I've gardened for fun for years and I doubt I've ever broke even. We have super clay soil, inconsistent rainfall, and lots of hungry critters even though we're in the suburbs. Dealing with these things means $$, both in initial outlay and ongoing expenses. 

Editing to add, maybe I have some years because I grow some things like Swiss chard and herbs that cost at the store.

I grow herbs. Best bang for the buck- they're so expensive at the store, plus all the stupid plastic packaging for everything that's not sold in large bunches.
Plus oregano and mint grow like weeds here and make good ground cover. And it sounds so much better if I say "and this here is my mint" than saying "and these are my weeds".

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, regentrude said:

And the weeds. Oh my goodness, the weeds....

Are any of them edible?

[Hilltopmom]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

My friend is a homesteaders of 38 years, experienced gardener, and she manages to raise 30% of what she eats. It means  working full-time in her gardens during the growing season, with soil deliberately enriched and built up over decades.

Is anyone here really gardening in a profitable way??? I would  never even recoup the fencing investment (otherwise the deer will eat it all).

Gardening is fun, meaningful, spiritually worthwhile... but as an answer to food prices far less efficient than having a day job and outsourcing the farming to local professionals. 

 

This. We used to grow some foods but now I’m happy to do a CSA with a farmer 5 minutes up the road from me for my summer/fall veggies and 2 other farmers for all my meat year round. 
and once I passed the 2 kid point I couldn’t keep up with all the canning & preserving for winter .

now that I’m working full time, no way.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Hilltopmom

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Are any of them edible?

Yep, some. Chickweed, violets, dandelions, and purslane (which is an excellent source of omega 3).  But mainly it's grasses. Not edible for us humans.

[Carol in Cal.]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

My friend is a homesteaders of 38 years, experienced gardener, and she manages to raise 30% of what she eats. It means  working full-time in her gardens during the growing season, with soil deliberately enriched and built up over decades.

Is anyone here really gardening in a profitable way??? I would  never even recoup the fencing investment (otherwise the deer will eat it all).

Gardening is fun, meaningful, spiritually worthwhile... but as an answer to food prices far less efficient than having a day job and outsourcing the farming to local professionals. 

 

Yes, but I have the advantage of a mild climate and outstanding soil fertility.  

And I’m so lazy.

All I have is a potted rosemary, which gives me all the rosemary I need year round, and fruit trees.

I use the fruit for months out of the year, give much of it away (except that right now we are under an Oriental Fruit Fly quarantine so all fruit has to stay on our lot), and preserve a little.  We tend to grab a meal or two worth off of the trees as we go by, rather than pick intensively.

We water the trees when it’s very hot for a long time.  It takes almost no time to do that.  Literally I move the hose to the base of a tree, set it at a low drip rate, and leave it run for a while.  Then after about 45 minutes I run out and move it to another tree, etc.  

Last year I set up a pomegranate juicing operation for a weekend day, and juiced a whole bunch of pomegranates at once, in addition to picking a bunch of seeds.  At that point we had been eating about 4-5 per week for quite a while, grabbing them on the way into the house, picking out the seeds, and eating them.  But it was clear that the harvest would spoil if we left it on the tree much longer, so DH picked them and I processed them, for about 4 hours.  We ended up with almost 2 gallons of pomegranate juice, and 2 quarts of seeds, and some more miscellaneous pomegranates that I tried to dry for a wreath.

Earlier in the year we had eaten ‘casually available’ apricots for quite a while, and then started to go after them in quantity.  I washed, split, and dried a bunch of them, but mostly we just ate them fresh.

After the pomegranate juicer day, I picked the rest of the Fuyu persimmons, ate a bunch in salads, and cleaned, skinned, and dried a few racks of the remaining ones.  These turned out great, and I will do more drying next year.

So all told, the labor we have put into this probably amounts to only about 1-2 weeks of person-days per year, at the very most, and in exchange for that we have essentially unlimited lemons and kumquats year round, and tons of apricots, oranges, limes, persimmons, and pomegranates, and a very few mandarins.  We will soon add an avocado to the mix.  I think it is well worth the miniscule amount of time we put into it.  We almost never prune, and we don’t treat the trees.  If one doesn’t bear, we pull it out and try something else.  The quality is far better than anything I can find at farm stands let alone the grocery stores, and the convenience and lack of transportation costs is significant also.  Plus there is other produce I don’t buy because I know I have something ripe to eat at home.  All in all, I am pretty certain that we make money on this, if you add everything up.

When I plant veggies, I pick ones that work the same way—Sweet 100 cherry tomatoes that bear for 5-6 months straight with no inputs except summer watering, and an artichoke planted in dappled shade, ditto.  Basil.  Chives.  Mint.  All high value, super easy, lengthy bearing season, low maintenance.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Carol in Cal.

[Carol in Cal.]

PS. I think the keys for me are, we only grow things that one or both of us absolutely loves.  I can eat a dozen apricots daily cheerfully for a very long time, and pomegranates are my favorite fruit, and we both love oranges.  And keeping things easy, as I have mentioned.  And tilting toward things that would be pricy in the stores—ie, not yellow onions, but maybe chives and shallots.  And being willing to adjust.  I don’t grow tomatoes each year.  I do it when I think I can reasonably keep them going and am going to be around enough to pick, use, and share them.  But if something came up and I couldn’t water the tomato plants for two weeks and one of them died, I’d be pretty sanguine about it, because my sunk cost is never very high and life trumps gardening so I’m easy going about results.  It would be different if I desperately needed the crop, and the fact that I don’t is a privilege that makes it a lot easier to try things out and share the results.

[regentrude]

@Carol in Cal. can I come live with you???? Pomegranates! Apricots! Citrus! OMG, that's paradise.

[Pam in CT]

I love gardening, and have grown herbs for decades -- they probably do come ahead of break-even $$$ because a lot of them are perennial in my area and the others are either easy from seed or cheap as baby plants, so even though I'm a slacker about drying for the ~6 months they don't prosper and I also use a fair amount of stuff I can't (?) grow, or at least don't, like cumin / paprika / bay leaves.

I started vegetables during COVID, and for a newbie have had two pretty-good harvests, pretty much keeping us 100% in salads from June-October and probably 80% of our vegetables over a slightly longer time than that; and I spend a reasonable number (maybe 10?) hours/week of mostly enjoyable time puttering around making it all work. As recreation / mental health outlet, check plus.

But I'm not canning for goodness sake; any $$$ savings over what I'd pay at the store has been completely overtaken by orders of magnitude on what we've spent just on building a cold frame; let alone the deer netting and potato bags and tomato cages and seed starter material and the second compost bin and etc.  Happy to have spent every dollar of that money; I count it as entertainment/ mental health.

 

 

[Dianthus]

I hate gardening in the ground. Our weeds are horrible. But I'd already decided to put in raised beds and plant a few things this year because of the price increases.

Meh, lots of work. I guess it's a good character builder for the kids. They are big enough to help.

[TravelingChris]

We live in the woods so we can't grow hardly anything except in planters.  And dh didn't like doing that after a few years because the animals get into the tomatoes, etc.  

We aren't worried about us- but are concerned with our children.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It would be very unlikely that all local food sources would all dry up. Fortunately my area has good farms. Even our local food banks benefit from local farms, pea patches etc. 

I have benefited just from supplementing with salad type vegetables. 

[Dianthus]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

@Carol in Cal. can I come live with you???? Pomegranates! Apricots! Citrus! OMG, that's paradise.

Along with warm climate fruit trees often come fruit rats. It's not all paradise.

[Rosie_0801]

7 minutes ago, Spirea said:

I hate gardening in the ground. Our weeds are horrible.

Heh. That's why I gave up and learned to eat them!
(The edible ones like mallow, purslane, sow thistle and even wild lettuce is tolerable if there's enough eggs and cheese involved.)

It's a crying shame the evil kikuyu isn't edible. 
 

[fairfarmhand]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

not getting scurvy and not being hungry is profitable enough

I don’t get paid for anything in my life and haven’t for decades.  Yet here I am still cooking, cleaning, knitting and crocheting, educating and maintaining the house and bellies as best I can. 

^ this is what I am doing. Luckily enough I have many young people still living here who will be pitching in. Our local library system gives away hundreds of packets of free seeds of all kinds this time of year and I ordered from there so that’s free. I’ve been putting my coffee grounds and  banana peels and egg shells in a bucket to purée to add to my raised garden beds. I plant to have the kids help me add garden beds along my north and west fence line.  I *think* I’m going to use good old cheep cinder blocks. Not the prettiest, but hard to beat the price. I have some old bricks I’m going to lay across weed barrier on the bottom of the beds before I add enriched soil. Will this prevent all weeds? Probably not. But it prevents enough that I don’t suspect it will be much of an issue.  I was thinking my major expense will be soil - but then I found out I can get one truck load for free so I’ll be taking my truck out for that next month. 

Cardboard and brown paper bags is pretty decent weed barrier, though it has to be replaced each year. 

[fairfarmhand]

27 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

I love gardening, and have grown herbs for decades -- they probably do come ahead of break-even $$$ because a lot of them are perennial in my area and the others are either easy from seed or cheap as baby plants, so even though I'm a slacker about drying for the ~6 months they don't prosper and I also use a fair amount of stuff I can't (?) grow, or at least don't, like cumin / paprika / bay leaves.

I

 

 

So here's my herb trick. So many herbs grow from cuttings. I can get a basil plant from the grocery for 3.00. I use some of the leaves, but I also snip some stems and put them in water. in 2-3 weeks, there's enough roots to pot them up. Mint is the same. Rosemary works too but is slower growing. 

 

Sweet potatoes...buy a sweet potato now. A smallish one. Put it in a jar of water. In a few weeks, it'll make roots, then have some tiny plants. Then you break off the plants and put them in water and they grow roots and make new plants that you can plant outside. I haven't bought sweet potatoes in years because of this. 

Store potatoes can often be sprouted so you do not have to buy seed potatoes.

I planted some seeds from my jalapeno and bell peppers this week. Chances are decent that they will sprout. 

[Pam in CT]

re propagating

3 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

So here's my herb trick. So many herbs grow from cuttings. I can get a basil plant from the grocery for 3.00. I use some of the leaves, but I also snip some stems and put them in water. in 2-3 weeks, there's enough roots to pot them up. Mint is the same. Rosemary works too but is slower growing. 

 

Sweet potatoes...buy a sweet potato now. A smallish one. Put it in a jar of water. In a few weeks, it'll make roots, then have some tiny plants. Then you break off the plants and put them in water and they grow roots and make new plants that you can plant outside. I haven't bought sweet potatoes in years because of this. 

Store potatoes can often be sprouted so you do not have to buy seed potatoes.

I planted some seeds from my jalapeno and bell peppers this week. Chances are decent that they will sprout. 

I'll be trying potatoes & sweet potatoes for the first time this year. But I've been propagating  all kinds of things from cuttings for years. 

And seeds are cheap; and I've successfully collected from my prior year's purple beans for 2 years running now; and etc.  It's not plants or seeds or starters or other organic material that makes it not-a-money-saver.

It's the infrastructure. We spent $600 on wood and plexiglass and hinges and framing and fabric lining for the cold frame last summer. I just spent $150 on potato bags and staking materials, and I'm about to spend another $250 for an arbor into the terrace that I'll try to get beans and nasturtiums to grow on.  And I'll need netting and fertilizer and new drip hoses and etc.

Maybe there are people who pull it off. For me, the point is definitely the therapeutic value, not for the cost savings!

[Carrie12345]

2 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

It's the infrastructure. We spent $600 on wood and plexiglass and hinges and framing and fabric lining for the cold frame last summer. I just spent $150 on potato bags and staking materials, and I'm about to spend another $250 for an arbor into the terrace that I'll try to get beans and nasturtiums to grow on.  And I'll need netting and fertilizer and new drip hoses and etc.

Maybe there are people who pull it off. For me, the point is definitely the therapeutic value, not for the cost savings!

And there’s nothing wrong with that. Fingers crossed, I’m gonna blow some money on a greenhouse kit next year!
But we tend to talk more about those expensive things.  I hope that doesn’t discourage people.  I’ve done just fine collecting downed branches for stakes many years, collecting cheap and free (though not pretty) fencing and netting materials, and turning my own kitchen trash into fertile soil.
And I also spend money for ease and/or aesthetic, lol. But not everyone has to do that to be successful.

It’s a lot like recipe talk, when a few people’s diet restrictions derail information that can be super useful to most people.
 

[fairfarmhand]

12 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re propagating

I'll be trying potatoes & sweet potatoes for the first time this year. But I've been propagating  all kinds of things from cuttings for years. 

And seeds are cheap; and I've successfully collected from my prior year's purple beans for 2 years running now; and etc.  It's not plants or seeds or starters or other organic material that makes it not-a-money-saver.

It's the infrastructure. We spent $600 on wood and plexiglass and hinges and framing and fabric lining for the cold frame last summer. I just spent $150 on potato bags and staking materials, and I'm about to spend another $250 for an arbor into the terrace that I'll try to get beans and nasturtiums to grow on.  And I'll need netting and fertilizer and new drip hoses and etc.

Maybe there are people who pull it off. For me, the point is definitely the therapeutic value, not for the cost savings!

Definitely. So miuch of it is regional and dependent on your set up.

I have acres and acres of property. I have animals to enrich my soil for free. We have the equipment to really break up the dirt and get rid of deep rooted weeds. I have the fencing to keep the deer out and the dogs. I have full sun in my yard. 

And I live in a place with a super long growing season. My last frost date is 4/15 and first frost date in the fall is 10/15. You can grow SO much in that time frame. I'd love to get a greenhouse, but for such a long growing season, I kind of think,, ok what's the point. 

[regentrude]

29 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I haven't bought sweet potatoes in years because of this. 

what do you do about critters? We had a terrible time with moles (or whatever else lives underground and eats them there)... the sweet potato crop was a total loss.

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

We have the equipment to really break up the dirt and get rid of deep rooted weeds.

You can do that and still keep your topsoil and fungi networks?

I noted with interest this summer that one of the local farmers had done something different in his paddocks, after so much of his topsoil blew away last summer. I wish farmers along major thoroughfares would put info boards up on their fences so stickybeaks like me could find out what is going on! 

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, regentrude said:

what do you do about critters? We had a terrible time with moles (or whatever else lives underground and eats them there)... the sweet potato crop was a total loss.

I poison them when they show up in the yard. But that doesn't happen very often. I theorize that between the two big dogs and the three cats, the moles don't stay long.

Voles are much the same. We had a mole/vole dog for a long time. Never had to poison them when Chief was alive. He hunted them down and dug up their tunnels and killed them. 

I kinda think that our hard clay deters them somewhat. It's not easy to tunnel through.

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

You can do that and still keep your topsoil and fungi networks?

I noted with interest this summer that one of the local farmers had done something different in his paddocks, after so much of his topsoil blew away last summer. I wish farmers along major thoroughfares would put info boards up on their fences so stickybeaks like me could find out what is going on! 

Yup. Our dirt is heavy clay so it doesn't blow away much. It's flat so it doesn't wash in the spring rain and we try to time it properly so that the dirt is wet but not too wet. Because we are so small and we only plow small paddocks, we can plow when the conditions are correct, rather than having to get it all done regardless of the weather conditions. 

We also use biopellets as our soil amendments rather than petro based fertilizers. This helps keep the beneficial fungi and such going.

[regentrude]

Just now, fairfarmhand said:

I kinda think that our hard clay deters them somewhat. It's not easy to tunnel through.

Our soil is hard clay and horrible. BUT my friend has built up beautiful soil over many years - it's rich and moist. (They went into town begging the bags with the yard waste from people and covered their gardens in compostable materials for a few years before even planting). So the soil sucks everywhere but in the beds where it has been carefully enriched... guess the moles/voles love it there 🙂

[itsheresomewhere]

43 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Cardboard and brown paper bags is pretty decent weed barrier, though it has to be replaced each year. 

Do not do the cardboard near the house if you are a heavy termite area.  Cardboard and termites like each other.

 

For those with a weed issue-  I use hay/straw.  Every year, I collect the hay/straw bales my neighbors are throwing out after fall decorations.  They are great, free ( not counting my own decorative bale that gets used), and really control the weeds.  When I do the spring clean up, I rake up the old hay/straw and put it in the compost bins.   

[ScoutTN]

13 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I poison them when they show up in the yard. But that doesn't happen very often. I theorize that between the two big dogs and the three cats, the moles don't stay long.

Voles are much the same. We had a mole/vole dog for a long time. Never had to poison them when Chief was alive. He hunted them down and dug up their tunnels and killed them. 

I kinda think that our hard clay deters them somewhat. It's not easy to tunnel through.

I have a dog like that. No moles in my backyard. Front yard is not fenced, so dog is never loose there; moles a plenty. 

[ScoutTN]

36 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re propagating

I'll be trying potatoes & sweet potatoes for the first time this year. But I've been propagating  all kinds of things from cuttings for years. 

And seeds are cheap; and I've successfully collected from my prior year's purple beans for 2 years running now; and etc.  It's not plants or seeds or starters or other organic material that makes it not-a-money-saver.

It's the infrastructure. We spent $600 on wood and plexiglass and hinges and framing and fabric lining for the cold frame last summer. I just spent $150 on potato bags and staking materials, and I'm about to spend another $250 for an arbor into the terrace that I'll try to get beans and nasturtiums to grow on.  And I'll need netting and fertilizer and new drip hoses and etc.

Maybe there are people who pull it off. For me, the point is definitely the therapeutic value, not for the cost savings!

Yep.
But also, your infrastructure will last for years and the costs will be lower when you are just using those items, not building or buying.

[Lucy the Valiant]

We have "garden expanding plans" but not specifically due to events overseas. I'd love to learn how to propagate some of the already-established plants that we have here (especially blueberries).

We are feeding a Horde of Teenagers, and gardening is definitely a money saver here. Our north-country garden (of course) can't compete with bulk-purchased dried beans and rice, but growing even a bit of what we eat DOES contribute to the overall thriftiness of the house, especially in season. 

Random pest-control "fun" we've learned over the years:  Painted rocks in the strawberry bed can (not WILL for sure, but CAN) deter birds from eating the berries; put them out a couple of weeks before berries ripen. Build "cages" for plants from chicken wire / screening; older elementary age kids can learn how to do this, and we have paid ours $1 / cage in times past. A child with a bb gun will not KILL a squirrel or a groundhog, but he may very well annoy it so much that it decides all on its own to move somewhere else. (I know, I know.) For cherry trees, there's a circular netting structure with a size zipper (approx $20) that works WONDERFULLY against birds; the nets can last 2-4 years or so with special care. Net the blueberries, too; a seamstress friend of mine saves the tulle she trims from prom dresses, and I staple the pieces together (somewhat haphazardly) to make "wedding dresses" each year for the berries. Dollar store plastic snakes. Hair from hairbrush. Marigolds can help against bugs. If you can keep bees, your garden will exponentially improve, even if you don't harvest honey.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Lucy the Valiant

[cjzimmer1]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

Are you including your labor in the calculations?

Why would I?  It's not like I'd be using my time to make money in some other way.  Besides if we want to be completely balanced, for purchased food you would have to figure out the time it spends to go to the store or farmer's market plus the gas to get there and back and to be really fair then you should also include the cost of a gym membership for the exercise that I would need to replace (plus the gas to get there and back) that I get for free tending my garden.  

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

@Carol in Cal. can I come live with you???? Pomegranates! Apricots! Citrus! OMG, that's paradise.

It’s taken us a long time to get to this point, and yes, it does feel like paradise!

I only wish I could also grow nuts without the squirrels getting them before I do.  The climate here is fantastic for almonds and walnuts.  

[Murphy101]

59 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re propagating

I'll be trying potatoes & sweet potatoes for the first time this year. But I've been propagating  all kinds of things from cuttings for years. 

And seeds are cheap; and I've successfully collected from my prior year's purple beans for 2 years running now; and etc.  It's not plants or seeds or starters or other organic material that makes it not-a-money-saver.

It's the infrastructure. We spent $600 on wood and plexiglass and hinges and framing and fabric lining for the cold frame last summer. I just spent $150 on potato bags and staking materials, and I'm about to spend another $250 for an arbor into the terrace that I'll try to get beans and nasturtiums to grow on.  And I'll need netting and fertilizer and new drip hoses and etc.

Maybe there are people who pull it off. For me, the point is definitely the therapeutic value, not for the cost savings!

But to be honest you don’t HAVE to buy those things to have a garden. Especially in a back yard where curb appeal isn’t such an issue.  I’m a huge fan of not buying anything I don’t have to.  My kids bring home huge “walking sticks” from playing at the creek. They make great stakes.  Old windows can be used to make little greenhouses over raised beds to extend the growing season.  Many towns have free mulch from places that take old Christmas trees.

Granted it’s not all free and easy but it doesn’t have to cost a fortune either. 

[Rosie_0801]

I've had fun cutting the cotoneaster to make fence posts. It made me feel like a cool, experimental archaeology person like Ruth Goodman. 😆

[livetoread]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Our soil is hard clay and horrible. BUT my friend has built up beautiful soil over many years - it's rich and moist. (They went into town begging the bags with the yard waste from people and covered their gardens in compostable materials for a few years before even planting). So the soil sucks everywhere but in the beds where it has been carefully enriched... guess the moles/voles love it there 🙂

I tried to do that for many years before giving up. So much organic material...The thing was, it wouldn't last. There was no "building up" of anything. It would be a couple of inches of nice soil on top for a couple of months and then that would disappear and I'd be right back to the hard pan. I think the worms just pull that stuff down which is what's supposed to happen I guess but they also break it down and then there is nothing but worm poop left from all my hard work. I would add six inches of organic material and it would be gone the following year. Three inches and it would be gone in a couple of months. I tried tilling the material in one year plus adding more on top in a couple of beds and the soil was wonderful - fluffy, rich, and then the next year, hard again. 

I switched to raised beds with purchased soil for my vegetables which made a big difference. I still buy close to $200 worth of compost to spread on my non-vegetable beds every year and add all our leaves to the beds in the fall, plus make my own compost and get material from neighbors but yep, hard clay anyway under the mulch after the mulch disappears. I now only plant stuff that tolerates hard clay in my landscape beds and between that and my mulching, stuff does decently. My soil never changed in any lasting way though.

[frogger]

I think it's great if people like to garden. I think costs of oil and therefore shipping foods will definitely go up so will food prices accordingly. There may be other variables I'm not thinking of but America is a net exporter of food and I really doubt we will be going hungry. There are things we aren't able to grow because of climate but of course we certainly can't grow those things well in our backyards either.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by frogger
Changed farm to garden

[Pam in CT]

re propagating blueberries

1 hour ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

We have "garden expanding plans" but not specifically due to events overseas. I'd love to learn how to propagate some of the already-established plants that we have here (especially blueberries).

The books & interwebs claim it's easy, and it must be because new plants are comparatively cheap compared to many other fruit shrubs... but I've never managed to pull it off from soft wood.  I keep meaning to try from hard wood -- right about now in my area come to think of it.

 

re aesthetics

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

But to be honest you don’t HAVE to buy those things to have a garden. Especially in a back yard where curb appeal isn’t such an issue.  I’m a huge fan of not buying anything I don’t have to.  My kids bring home huge “walking sticks” from playing at the creek. They make great stakes.  Old windows can be used to make little greenhouses over raised beds to extend the growing season.  Many towns have free mulch from places that take old Christmas trees.

Granted it’s not all free and easy but it doesn’t have to cost a fortune either. 

Yes.  My back yard gets no sun, so everything I do has to be right on or adjacent to my terrace / outdoor table / entertainment space, which definitely affects how I want it to *look.* 

And my growing season is short compared to lots of other gardeners, which is why we did the cold frame.  I had *hoped* to be able to keep growing greens and beets and things through the winter, but everything except the rosemary died off by January. 

[fairfarmhand]

4 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re propagating blueberries

The books & interwebs claim it's easy, and it must be because new plants are comparatively cheap compared to many other fruit shrubs... but I've never managed to pull it off from soft wood.  I keep meaning to try from hard wood -- right about now in my area come to think of it.

 

 

Me neither. I've kinds given up, but my dh keeps handing me these pieces of blueberry sticks and asking me to put htem in dirt. Then I have a windowfull of dead sticks for a couple months.

[Melissa in Australia]

I would strongly recommend that people try growing some food this year,  even if it is just sprouting stuff and greens.

 on top of all the world conflict  causing potential food woes this year, a huge amount of vegetables, rice, nuts  and soybean crops in Australia have just been completely wiped out by the floods. large areas of the eastern seaboard of Australia ( the fertile land part of Australia)  We are an exporter of food. There mightn't be so much to export

Edited March 3, 2022 by Melissa in Australia

[busymama7]

I store seeds for sprouting, alfalfa usually.  But I also grind my own wheat and can sprout the berries. I live in the desert southwest and it is difficult to grow stuff here especially when you have a black thumb 😕. But sprouting would provide us with similar nutrients to vegetables and is much quicker and easier.

[ealp2009]

In the past I had a small yard but I had lots of good sun in the front and plenty of rain the in spring and I had a very successful strawberry and blueberry patch.   I also had raspberries on the side of the house.  Berries are very expensive in the grocery store and not very tasty so I easily have made back what I have put into my garden many times.   I have a variety of both strawberries and blueberries so some are early bearing and some are later bearing which definitely supplies our fruit needs for the summer and I make jam and freeze extras.   I also planted fruit trees in our parking strip.  We moved so I am having to start over I am paying the intial costs again but again I am planting things that I know will grow well and are expensive to buy at the store.  

[Ausmumof3]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/04/17/the-real-reason-britain-gambled-at-gallipoli/
 

I heard someone discussing this the other day.  Sorry not sure about the source just the first one that came up when I googled the topic.

This author’s theory is that a big driver behind Gallipoli was Britain’s need for access to wheat from Russia. There’s a bit more to it than that but it was pretty fascinating in light of current events. Russia has already taken one of the port cities and there’s some thought that what they really want is Odessa? I’m way out of my depth as far as history and geography in the region goes but is it plausible that easier shipping access is one of the major drivers for Russia?

[Ausmumof3]

On a separate note, and I thought it better to do a separate post, I think this is likely a worse issue for the UK. They are more reliant on shipping etc for food as they don’t produce enough locally and particularly during World War 1 where a lot of the fighting happened at sea. In the US and Australia, we’re less likely to face overall food shortages though specific products can continue to be an issue. We’ve had massive floods now to add to our woes but we’ll probably produce enough for our own needs.  Although we are heavily dependent on phosphate fertilisers so if they become hard to access we might be in a world of hurt.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[prairiewindmomma]

27 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 I’m way out of my depth as far as history and geography in the region goes but is it plausible that easier shipping access is one of the major drivers for Russia?

They already have access to good ports in the region. I do think this aspect figured into the seizure of Crimea, but I don’t think this is why he invaded Ukraine.

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

They already have access to good ports in the region. I do think this aspect figured into the seizure of Crimea, but I don’t think this is why he invaded Ukraine.

Ah yes that makes sense. 

[Arcadia]

On 2/27/2022 at 8:15 AM, Faith-manor said:

. I would love to see schools shift their "prep for the test" ideas of science education and take April and May to have elementary and middle school classrooms grow windowsill edible plants, have some lessons in hydroponics, field trips to local family owned farms and orchards, take some baskets of tomatoes to the local farmer's market to sell, handle the money, make change, or give them to the kitchen staff at school to make salads and spaghetti sauce and then have the satisfaction of enjoying the fruits of their labors. But, I know that is too idealistic to ever happen.

My local public elementary schools have  community garden on site. Students would grow squash and other vegetables there. California state testing  for science is only in 5th, 8th and once in high school. Test prep is for the yearly English and Math state tests.

One of my local community colleges 

https://www.deanza.edu/es/Gardentotable.html

”Did you know that De Anza's Dining Services group is growing veggies on campus for use in the cafeteria?

From our community garden to the school's kitchen! The De Anza Dining Services and Kirsch collaboration has taken a huge step toward sustainable and organic farming. Students help with harvesting fresh chives, basil and peppers – and with delivering them to the kitchen.“

[Lucy the Valiant]

42 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My local public elementary schools have  community garden on site. Students would grow squash and other vegetables there. California state testing  for science is only in 5th, 8th and once in high school. Test prep is for the yearly English and Math state tests.

<snip>

Our local public elementary school has beautiful mature apple trees out front, all along the drive; every year, the trees go un-pruned, un-sprayed, and the apples grow and fall off and sit on the ground until a local resident comes and scoops them up in buckets for animal feed. They also stand students in the town center with signs petitioning the residents to support a $$$ plan to introduce "Family and Consumer Sciences." *insert rolling eyes here* 

And to add insult to injury, they award teenagers "community service" hours for marching with the signs (but apparently not for actually - you know, tending or PICKING the apples)! 

[Edit: Sorry for rant! Maybe I should be grateful to live in a place where children don't worry about tomorrow's food. (Though I still would follow through on my offer to teach the kids how to care for the trees & eat the apples.  *steps off soap box ]

Edited March 4, 2022 by Lucy the Valiant

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Our local public elementary school has beautiful mature apple trees out front, all along the drive; every year, the trees go un-pruned, un-sprayed, and the apples grow and fall off and sit on the ground until a local resident comes and scoops them up in buckets for animal feed. They also stand students in the town center with signs petitioning the residents to support a $$$ plan to introduce "Family and Consumer Sciences." *insert rolling eyes here* 

And to add insult to injury, they award teenagers "community service" hours for marching with the signs (but apparently not for actually - you know, tending or PICKING the apples)! 

That school’s PTA could have harvested the apples and have a bake sale or sell the apples for $5 per bag. Or just let the students bring them home. The students at my nearby K-8 school would bring apples from the free breakfast program home, usually for their younger siblings. 
 

A local Korean church has lovely apricot trees in their grounds. They also have a drop off center for seniors on site. Volunteers would harvest the fruits and and bring them to the senior center. I’m sure the seniors and volunteers are happy with the fresh fruits.

[Brittany1116]

I've heard some growers at the farmer's market say that if things get to a certain point, they are pulling out and putting everything up for themselves.  

[prairiewindmomma]

I have been watching this index: https://www.fao.org/worldfoodsituation/foodpricesindex/en/ because it’s a pretty good predictor of political instability. High grain prices = political instability.