Anyone else regret homeschooling?

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Terabith said:

For what it's worth, while there is no question my kids got, by far, their best education when I homeschooled them, sending them to school was unquestionably the right decision for our RELATIONSHIP.  

I think it also helped some with general executive functioning, but I'm not all that sure that that wouldn't have come with age anyway.  

Yeah. That’s kind of where we are.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I know tippy top IQ kids thriving in selective schools.

I've known one kid, who was probably the most gifted kid in AU or close to, who simply could not tolerate either school or homeschool. I lost track of that family - but his giftedness almost reached the level of a disability. The last time I spoke to the mum, the focus was on keeping him alive 🙁 I think this is unusual, even for the top 1%.

Extreme giftedness really creates some extra challenges re schooling, and I hope whatever options you have open to you in the future can meet dd's needs, and yours too. 

I knew a kid like this too and yes, it translated into a disability. He was so profoundly precocious it bordered on absurdity and his mother was totally exhausted because he was just “on” all the time. She was trying to meet his needs for more information, more knowledge and it was like …watching a circus act. Except when he was asleep, she couldn’t put her attention on something that was not Wunderkinder every minute. 

[Terabith]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah. That’s kind of where we are.

For what it's worth, age nine was the point where we sent them both to school, too.  The pre puberty hormones, the fact that friendships were no longer just random kids they played with, and the intensity of the relationships just meant we needed someone else to be teacher.  Relationship wise, it was a very, very, very good decision.  

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Quill said:

I knew a kid like this too and yes, it translated into a disability. He was so profoundly precocious it bordered on absurdity and his mother was totally exhausted because he was just “on” all the time. She was trying to meet his needs for more information, more knowledge and it was like …watching a circus act. Except when he was asleep, she couldn’t put her attention on something that was not Wunderkinder every minute. 

Yep. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. 

[Arcadia]

My Australia geography isn’t good. Hope you and all the rest of the Aussie boardies are unaffected.

”Reports of damaged buildings are emerging in Victoria, after a magnitude-6 earthquake was felt across Australia's south-east. | ABC News” https://www.abc.net.au/news/topic/earthquake

[Ausmumof3]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

My Australia geography isn’t good. Hope you and all the rest of the Aussie boardies are unaffected.

”Reports of damaged buildings are emerging in Victoria, after a magnitude-6 earthquake was felt across Australia's south-east. | ABC News” https://www.abc.net.au/news/topic/earthquake

All good here!

[Melissa Louise]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My Australia geography isn’t good. Hope you and all the rest of the Aussie boardies are unaffected.

”Reports of damaged buildings are emerging in Victoria, after a magnitude-6 earthquake was felt across Australia's south-east. | ABC News” https://www.abc.net.au/news/topic/earthquake

I think everyone is ok. Rosie and Melissa in Au will have felt it. My DD felt it. Doesn't  look like  any major damage. 

[Arcadia]

2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

All good here!

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

I think everyone is ok. Rosie and Melissa in Au will have felt it. My DD felt it. Doesn't  look like  any major damage. 

My husband’s aunt in Melbourne felt the quake. She’s ok.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Noooo. Don't tell me about how that's not a picnic either, lol. 

I've had DD9 in kindergarten before, and it was... fine. She didn't like it much and she wasn't challenged at all, and that's why we pulled her out. But she's been giving me ridiculous amounts of attitude for more than a year now, and things have been really tense as a result (and I've definitely yelled her much more than I'm comfortable with), and I kind of want this to be someone else's problem now. I'm tired. 

Not to scare you, but when I put my kid like that in school he just found other ways to but heads with me. Plus then I was yelling at him about homework. Or his room. Etc. Turned out we still had the exact same relationship...just for fewer hours a day I guess. 

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is my DD who, when given her work to fix, would give me back the exact same work, with an extremely minor alternation, hoping I wouldn't notice 🙄. 

Be prepared for the fact that her teachers in school actually won't notice, or won't bother to make her try again. If her not trying hard is better than most kids who are trying, they will accept that as good enough. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

My husband’s aunt in Melbourne felt the quake. She’s ok.

I think it was quite a shock for everyone. No pun intended. Glad she's ok. 

[fairfarmhand]

I am beyond happy with my decision to be home when I had babies and toddlers. I didn't handle those years very well, and it would have been so chaotic for our family to have had to deal with day cares and sitters, and sick kids, and figuring out dinner and all that. So wouldn't have done a thing different about those early years.

What I have told my daughters is to plan for a career that they can do part time or evenings/weekends if they want. Or work from home. Always leave their options open and try to keep a foot in the door somewhere. 

That's what my 2 oldest have kinda planned on. (They're 23 and 19) I think they see that I would have benefitted from something else all these years.

[Not_a_Number]

23 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Not to scare you, but when I put my kid like that in school he just found other ways to but heads with me. Plus then I was yelling at him about homework. Or his room. Etc. Turned out we still had the exact same relationship...just for fewer hours a day I guess. 

Be prepared for the fact that her teachers in school actually won't notice, or won't bother to make her try again. If her not trying hard is better than most kids who are trying, they will accept that as good enough. 

I don’t butt heads with her in the same way about other stuff. I’m more chill about those things.

I know she won’t get a super rigorous education. But she’ll have to do stuff she doesn’t want, and that’s a good life lesson. Plus, I’m beat.

[ktgrok]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don’t butt heads with her in the same way about other stuff. I’m more chill about those things.

I know she won’t get a super rigorous education. But she’ll have to do stuff she doesn’t want, and that’s a good life lesson. Plus, I’m beat.

Interesting. Is there a reason you aren't more chill about the education stuff? If she's not going to get rigorous at school anyway, could you be more chill about that stuff? Just thinking aloud. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Interesting. Is there a reason you aren't more chill about the education stuff? If she's not going to get rigorous at school anyway, could you be more chill about that stuff? Just thinking aloud. 

I dunno, but having watched, it seems common. I think it’s because teaching kids things requires considerably more cooperation on the part of the learner than just coexisting. Schools are places of hierarchy for a reason.

[Not_a_Number]

Also, the chiller I get, the more she matches that energy by doing even worse work, lol. If I’m chill about careless errors, she’ll simply skip questions. If I’m chill about grammar, she starts misspelling things.

We’ve been on this roller coaster for a long time. It doesn’t work without her being willing to work hard at things she may not want to work hard at. It’s a two-person dance and she’s standing still while I’ve contorted myself like a circus acrobat.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I dunno, but having watched, it seems common. I think it’s because teaching kids things requires considerably more cooperation on the part of the learner than just coexisting. Schools are places of hierarchy for a reason.

Maybe my kids are just odd - I get more pushback on asking them to clean their room usually. Or shower. Sigh. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Maybe my kids are just odd - I get more pushback on asking them to clean their room usually. Or shower. Sigh. 

Yeah, my kids aren’t difficult about that stuff, plus I simply find it easier to be consistently strict about it. And the ways I’m easygoing don’t backfire like they do with schoolwork.

[Melissa Louise]

Well, seven pages later, I've worked out what to do.

Going to use the term break to go through the homeschool photos, choose my faves, and make and hang a collage of them. The kids may have no memories but damn, I'm gonna display the evidence 🙂 

I didn't realise how much the lack of recognition  - hey guys, we did this thing, put a lot into it! - was bothering me. 

[GoodGrief3]

6 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

 

Fact is we can play the “What If” game forever and it’s mostly an unhelpful form of self-torture.

Because for all we know things could have ended up even worse if we had done things differently.

 

That's the way I view life for the most part. There's a risk to most choices that we make. It's painful when it becomes clear that the choice we made led to an undesirable outcome. On the other hand, we don't know what difficulties might have arisen on an alternative route.

[LucyStoner]

Pre-homeschooling, when I had a kid in kindergarten and another one on the way, I did a year long professional certificate at the local university in my professional field.  The class was about 1/3 young people just out of college looking for a resume booster to get their first “real job”, 1/3 people in their late 20s and 30s who were working one of those “real jobs” and wanted a career boost without the cost and commitment of a master’s program and 1/3 un or underemployed career switchers who were mostly in their late 40s and 50s.  Of the “career switchers”, a sizable number were women who were empty nesters and looking to re-enter the workforce after having been SAHMs.  I remember thinking very seriously that I didn’t want to be in their shoes.  They were mostly wonderful women but more than a few were in some dire situations and they were all vastly underemployed for their talents.  I also had an older boss when I was 23-25 who had gone back for her masters after a financially devastating divorce when her kids were in high school and college and she said some things to me about what she had gone through to get back on a professional career trajectory that stuck with me.  

While I was home, I did generally have a foot hold in my field even if it was just 1 very part time client or a few projects doing things like editing grants or crafting fundraising letters.  The money wasn’t much, but it kept my contacts warm and when I was ready to start growing my business, it was ridiculously easy to do so (I grew from 1-11 clients in 18 months without one bit of marketing other than WOM).

I still made some regrettable, foolish decisions rooted in a mix of fear (scared for the impact the bad school situation was having on my son) and lack of knowledge (that the school district could do more but wouldn’t unless we made them)but I do think that being in that class with older women helped influence my decision to maintain a professional toe hold + and have a long term plan for professional reentry.  I do wish that I had thought more about the financial implications of getting out of the Seattle real estate market in 2012 but we will be ok. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by LucyStoner

[GoodGrief3]

7 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Well, seven pages later, I've worked out what to do.

Going to use the term break to go through the homeschool photos, choose my faves, and make and hang a collage of them. The kids may have no memories but damn, I'm gonna display the evidence 🙂 

I didn't realise how much the lack of recognition  - hey guys, we did this thing, put a lot into it! - was bothering me. 

That's a great idea, and may offer some healing too as you go through the memories,

My kids definitely have selective memories, and the negative things tend to stick in there a little more clearly, it seems. I guess my memory is somewhat that way too though.

[Starr]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

My Australia geography isn’t good. Hope you and all the rest of the Aussie boardies are unaffected.

”Reports of damaged buildings are emerging in Victoria, after a magnitude-6 earthquake was felt across Australia's south-east. | ABC News” https://www.abc.net.au/news/topic/earthquake

Thanks for the info, glad everyone is okay. I was able to text with my niece who is also fine. 

[Melissa Louise]

49 minutes ago, LucyStoner said:

Pre-homeschooling, when I had a kid in kindergarten and another one on the way, I did a year long professional certificate at the local university in my professional field.  The class was about 1/3 young people just out of college looking for a resume booster to get their first “real job”, 1/3 people in their late 20s and 30s who were working one of those “real jobs” and wanted a career boost without the cost and commitment of a master’s program and 1/3 un or underemployed career switchers who were mostly in their late 40s and 50s.  Of the “career switchers”, a sizable number were women who were empty nesters and looking to re-enter the workforce after having been SAHMs.  I remember thinking very seriously that I didn’t want to be in their shoes.  They were mostly wonderful women but more than a few were in some dire situations and they were all vastly underemployed for their talents.  I also had an older boss when I was 23-25 who had gone back for her masters after a financially devastating divorce when her kids were in high school and college and she said some things to me about what she had gone through to get back on a professional career trajectory that stuck with me.  

While I was home, I did generally have a foot hold in my field even if it was just 1 very part time client or a few projects doing things like editing grants or crafting fundraising letters.  The money wasn’t much, but it kept my contacts warm and when I was ready to start growing my business, it was ridiculously easy to do so (I grew from 1-11 clients in 18 months without one bit of marketing other than WOM).

I still made some regrettable, foolish decisions rooted in a mix of fear (scared for the impact the bad school situation was having on my son) and lack of knowledge (that the school district could do more but wouldn’t unless we made them)but I do think that being in that class with older women helped influence my decision to maintain a professional toe hold + and have a long term plan for professional reentry.  I do wish that I had thought more about the financial implications of getting out of the Seattle real estate market in 2012 but we will be ok. 

When I think about it, I did actually make an attempt towards professional re-entry, in that when my youngest was ten, I got another degree. I needed to do an honors year + 2 years Masters after that, but it lined up nicely with ds getting older, possibly going back to school etc.

Then just at the beginning of my honor's year, DD got seriously unwell, dd2 was in her final year of school with major exams, AND ex got a PhD scholarship. So I deferred for a few years, because there was no way we could both study. But then ex got sick, ended up in ICU, and I needed to take the first job going. And then ds did his mental health/celiac dive into the pit..

So maybe it was really just bad luck that's put me behind. 

 

[Scarlett]

6 hours ago, StephanieZ said:

I totally understand your feelings. I am still processing my feelings about homeschooling. And parenting in general, actually. My husband and I made our (now grown) kids the center of our universe, leaving only enough room for each other, earning a living, and other core family relationships (mainly just my parents and brother.) I totally understand your “small world” phrase.

My youngest headed to college last month, but we’ve been empty nesting since November when she moved in with her big sister because she (all three of them) had very different ideas about covid safety than their dad and I did. That (sudden) move was really upsetting to me, but the kids anger and refusal to even isolate briefly to allow for a visit over Christmas pretty much broke me. I had a very, very dark winter. I am still processing, but realizing how little regard my kids actually have for me (their dad, too, but aimed at me) has definitely made me reconsider the wisdom of homeschooling and of allowing my world to be so small. It’s very strange to feel this way because I really ADORED being a mom to littles and I was totally confident in our choices and our priorities. 

I have a graduate degree. I’m smart and hard working. I could have had an interesting, useful career to throw myself into after the kids left home, but I don’t. We own a business that is very lucrative, and I had a big hand in making that happen. I could go back to work at our business, but I have stayed out of it for the last 8 years or so besides occasional “big picture” issues that our office manager can’t handle and that I’m particularly skilled in handling, and going back to that regular hours isn’t something that would be good for my (excellent) marriage, so that’s not a good option. We don’t need the money of me working, don’t want my availability to limit our ability to maximize time together, and frankly, I’ve been highly competent at the things I do and the boss of all I survey for way too long to go into a new field where I’d be less skilled and not in control. The thought of going back in school is horrifying. And any money I could earn would be insignificant in our situation. 
 
So what do I do? What is my purpose? My folks are both long gone. I’m a good wife, sister and friend. I do formal volunteer work but mostly lots of informal do-good stuff helping who I can how I can. I’ve painted and redecorated all the empty bedrooms. I’ve expanded vegetable and flower gardens. I’ve started woodworking and restoring furniture for our oldest’s home.

I regularly help the same daughter with farm/land/home projects at her property nearby us. I spend time with our kids as much as they are willing.

But it all feels questionably important. I had a full scale breakdown over the winter, and now rely on an antidepressant to feel ok. All this confusion and grieving, while I’m admittedly incredibly blessed in my marriage, my friends, and our finances and home. Would I feel more purposeful and happier if I hadn’t allowed motherhood to be nearly my entire identity? If my entire identity wasn’t wrapped up in being the perfect mother, would their rejection/disapproval/disregard be less shattering? Probably. Maybe not. 

But, I do feel that I will no longer encourage my girls to do what I did. I know I was an excellent educator and my kids got a better education from me than they could have gotten in any available school. Each of them actually says they want their own kids to be homeschooled and are glad they were. But I now hope they each have a real career and don’t lose it to make their kids their entire identity. My ideal might be each parent working PT hours, as I now really recognize the price I am paying now for my choices to so dramatically prioritize my children. 

I  enjoyed the first decade or so immensely, but teen years were brutal with some of my kids, and it isn’t yet a picnic. I think we would have better relationships — that my kids would LIKE me more — if I had been the sympathetic ear and cookie baking mom vs the school task master. Maybe not, but that’s what I wonder about.

I hadn’t visited this forum in months, and I think I was led here today to see your post. You aren’t alone. (((Hugs)))

Hi! I am so glad to see you.  So sorry you had a rough winter.  

[Scarlett]

I think I could have more money in the bank if I had not homeschooled. The first 9 years I homeschooled I was still married to husband number one….a very shaky marriage all along. So I was always thinking about the next step.  But after my son was born my focus was always him…..I knew statistically I was going to end up divorced….but that did not make me run out and  get a job and put ds in public school. I just clung to the Idea that the more time I had one on one  with him the better. 

THe result of that is a mixed bag……my son is very hard on me…..but he is very hard on everyone. He leans toward the negative. He doesn’t naturally remember  the good.  But the fact is he is a young man who is in his 4 th year of engineering school, married, and not on drugs.  He may not know it yet or ever but those things are a direct result of my SAH homeschooling mom.
 

 

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

What I have told my daughters is to plan for a career that they can do part time or evenings/weekends if they want. Or work from home. Always leave their options open and try to keep a foot in the door somewhere. 

I sort of wish someone told me that. Although not sure if I would have followed that advice when I was younger anyways. I had a super fulfilling career up until I had a second child, but it's hard to figure out how to do that part-time. 

[popmom]

On 9/20/2021 at 4:55 AM, popmom said:

I had these same worries, but 3 out of my 4 are adults. They are glad they were homeschooled. I knew my kids. Not all kids will appreciate it. There were times when a couple of mine really wanted to go to public school. But now I have one who has launched into a very successful career, one who is killing it in grad school (doctorate), one who is an undergraduate, one who is still at home… homeschooling isn’t a panacea, but I have zero regrets. I never had any desire to accomplish whatever it is that society says makes a woman a “success”. I just wanted to experience mothering and teaching my kids. I admire women who have successful careers. I hope my daughters will have that. And I’ll help them achieve that in any way I can if that is what is life giving for them. 
 

I have plans for retirement. 🙂 I’m passionate about teaching. Of course my degree was in education. I plan to work with underprivileged youth in rural areas to improve literacy. I’ve been researching this for years. My BIL worked with Americore for several years before retirement—with at risk teens. IHe worked in the poorest counties in my state. He is my inspiration. I’m really excited about what the future holds for me. 
 

ive definitely had moments of doubt. LOTS OF MOMENTS OF DOUBT. lol but I am content at this stage of life.

After reading further into this thread, I want to clarify some things.

My kids didn’t turn out as I had imagined. Not by a long shot. I have felt deeply grieved by some of their choices, but those choices are theirs to make. Mental illness complicates things as well. Each of my children has experienced severe suffering because of mental illness at a relatively young age. Still, I wouldn’t change anything. They have taught me more than I have taught them. One of them is really suffering rn not only w mental illness but a serious chronic health condition. Her meds make her feel terrible and she’s so, so depressed (the one in grad school). 
I’m not looking for sympathy…I just was concerned that my previous post made it seem like my homeschool experience has been nothing but rainbows and butterflies beautiful. It has NEVER been that. There is always a sense that joy coexists with pain.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Well, seven pages later, I've worked out what to do.

Going to use the term break to go through the homeschool photos, choose my faves, and make and hang a collage of them. The kids may have no memories but damn, I'm gonna display the evidence 🙂 

I didn't realise how much the lack of recognition  - hey guys, we did this thing, put a lot into it! - was bothering me. 

I think that’s an excellant idea!

[BlsdMama]

13 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

The confidence of youth is a powerful thing! 

I miss young, bold, confident me. She was brave. Now  I overthink practically to the point of paralyzing. Young me might not have realized she was neck deep, not just homeschooling, but raising eleven kids, and young me didn’t realize all the ways things could go sideways — thankfully. But young me has convictions and gumption. I still admire her, but it feels like from a from distance now. 
@Melissa Louise - you used the word lame and the term end up... and you sound raw and heartbroken. You’re not done yet. ((Hugs)) You did something great, something that benefited your kids. It has a cost as all things do - and you paid it for them. It was noble. I hope you can see that. Even when results don’t turn out as planned, the motivation does matter. It is not lame to work hard and support yourself. I hope this is taken in the spirit intended. You put your rawness/hurt/disillusionment out there and I suspect this thread feels like a critique of your emotions and hurts because, had you had support, things might be different than they are now.
 

 Is it too late for you in the writing industry? I should think not. The insight of an experienced woman is a valuable commodity for certain and we live in a time where that is finally appreciated more so than at any point in history. You have years ahead of you. It would be heartbreaking to look back in 25 years and say, “That was my moment to pivot but I didn’t because I thought it was too late for me.” Most of us in our 40s and 50s are beginning our second life. For some of us, we’re at the end. That’s okay too. But for those of us with another thirty years ahead? Go! Do a thing! I don’t think I’m overly optimistic. If your dream was surfing or something physical... well, maybe that would be overly optimistic, but writing? Nah.  Another thirty years is a long time to live with regrets. 

[Indigo Blue]

52 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

You’re not done yet. ((Hugs)) You did something great, something that benefited your kids. It has a cost as all things do - and you paid it for them. It was noble. I hope you can see that. Even when results don’t turn out as planned, the motivation does matter. It is not lame to work hard and support yourself.

Agree 100%!

[chiguirre]

12 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

There we go. That's much better 😛 . That's what I want to hear 😛 . 

Honestly, I love homeschooling her. I just can't do it anymore unless she shapes up, and I'm sick of asking her to shape up. 

At this point in our homeschooling, I discovered online classes at Athena's and OnlineG3. They do classes for gifted elementary students that dd really enjoyed. She worked much harder for someone else than for me. You might have access to excellent in person classes at museums in your area too. We did a few of those, but the commute wasn't compatible with GW's drop off and pick up times.

[Dmmetler]

32 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

At this point in our homeschooling, I discovered online classes at Athena's and OnlineG3. They do classes for gifted elementary students that dd really enjoyed. She worked much harder for someone else than for me. You might have access to excellent in person classes at museums in your area too. We did a few of those, but the commute wasn't compatible with GW's drop off and pick up times.

I would agree here. Athena's and G3 were lifelines in elementary, and at age 12, so was starting DE. Homeschooling let L thrive, but there was a definite need for me NOT to do it all and for there to be other people involved. 

 

Also, @Not_a_Number-you may not want to hear this, but there was a long period where I could teach L anything BUT music. It could be the two of us together attacking other subjects, but in music, where she was very aware that in some cases I had literally written the book on it, it led to a lot of conflict, and I think a big part of it was that mentally, I had a much stronger mental picture of how things were supposed to go. So, I outsourced that to a person who was a lot more laid back than I was, and it ended up working quite well. (She also homescholled-and ALSO outsourced her daughter's piano to someone else for similar reasons). So you may find that things would get a lot more harmonious if you outsourced math. 

[ktgrok]

38 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

At this point in our homeschooling, I discovered online classes at Athena's and OnlineG3. They do classes for gifted elementary students that dd really enjoyed. She worked much harder for someone else than for me. You might have access to excellent in person classes at museums in your area too. We did a few of those, but the commute wasn't compatible with GW's drop off and pick up times.

That's a good idea. DS did an online Latin class he really enjoyed, until depression/adhd issues made online classes a bad fit. 

I will say, he's competitive with other kids - he wants to be the best, get the highest grade in the class, etc so that was motivating when he was in school - but as he often could do that without actually any real effort, it wasn't as helpful as I had hoped. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I would agree here. Athena's and G3 were lifelines in elementary, and at age 12, so was starting DE. Homeschooling let L thrive, but there was a definite need for me NOT to do it all and for there to be other people involved. 

 

Also, @Not_a_Number-you may not want to hear this, but there was a long period where I could teach L anything BUT music. It could be the two of us together attacking other subjects, but in music, where she was very aware that in some cases I had literally written the book on it, it led to a lot of conflict, and I think a big part of it was that mentally, I had a much stronger mental picture of how things were supposed to go. So, I outsourced that to a person who was a lot more laid back than I was, and it ended up working quite well. (She also homescholled-and ALSO outsourced her daughter's piano to someone else for similar reasons). So you may find that things would get a lot more harmonious if you outsourced math. 

Things aren't any more harmonious in other stuff, lol. She just can't seem to make herself put in adequate effort. 

Plus, I've been letting her pick everything anyway! Together, we decided our goal this year was her doing well on the AMC 8, and what she's been doing is literally picking the topics that she wants to work on each day. I write her questions on HER topics, then she does a super-sloppy job with minimal effort and no checking, then half the time she refuses to fix things if I hand things back to her. 

Same thing with Russian. She picks the kind of work she does, then she won't look it over to correct it. At all. Or we'll be doing conversation and she doesn't even try to think about my questions when I ask her stuff. 

And those are the ONLY subjects she currently has output in.

Honestly, I'm pretty flexible. I've been trying and trying stuff for literally a year now. I'd be happy if she wanted to work independently. I'd be happy if she wanted to work with me, as long as she was willing to work hard. I'd be happy to help out either verbally or in writing. But basically, nothing works, because she can't seem to get herself over the hump of only doing what she feels like and being resentful and uncooperative about anything that's even a bit boring. 

[Not_a_Number]

53 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

At this point in our homeschooling, I discovered online classes at Athena's and OnlineG3. They do classes for gifted elementary students that dd really enjoyed. She worked much harder for someone else than for me. You might have access to excellent in person classes at museums in your area too. We did a few of those, but the commute wasn't compatible with GW's drop off and pick up times.

Honestly, at the point that I'm not teaching her and she's doing online classes, I'm not seeing a huge benefit in keeping her home. We have lots of good schools around here in NYC and we can thankfully afford a private school if need be. 

Plus, DD9 actually wants me to teach her 😛 . She consistently ranks the things I teach her as her favorites -- she does have other subjects she takes, but she always says that she likes math and Russian the best.

I dunno. We'll figure it out. I'm just kind of at the end of my rope with her. 

[Guest]

@BlsdMama I like what you wrote to @Melissa Louise. I want to piggy-back on that a little, though, for any younger mamas reading along. 
 

I was, and have always been, a person who championed the “Never too late!” mindset. Literally, I have CS Lewis’s quote to that effect sitting beside my mirror, reminding me of that for the past 13 years. As you and others here know, I went back to college at 38 and did PT college for five years, which earned me an Associates. I’m proud of having done that, but I also came to realize that some things *do* come off the table with every passing year, mostly due to potential return on investment, if not due to less energy after medical issues and aging have had their say. (I know I’m not telling you anything you don’t know!) 

So, to use myself as an example, it would not make sense to try to become a lawyer now. ROI is not there. Moreover, I don’t even think I could go back and complete a bachelor’s, which would have a good chance of increasing my pay. (Not sure; I still toy with this.) So - speaking only for myself of course - I think the best I can do now is get a few years at this little law firm and possibly, when my boss retires, maybe *then* I could work at a bigger/better firm with higher pay and benefits. Kind of just thinking out loud here; don’t know what’s down the road, but I have come to think now that my “Never too late!!” way of thinking was overly optimistic and naive. 
 

Yesterday I saw a post on a FB homeschool board in which a mom was asking what to do about XYZ issues with her 2nd grader. I did not comment but I just felt like saying, “Send the kid to school.” 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Ausmumof3]

10 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

Well, seven pages later, I've worked out what to do.

Going to use the term break to go through the homeschool photos, choose my faves, and make and hang a collage of them. The kids may have no memories but damn, I'm gonna display the evidence 🙂 

I didn't realise how much the lack of recognition  - hey guys, we did this thing, put a lot into it! - was bothering me. 

I think that stuff does impact them even when they don’t remember specifics.  There’s a tonne of stuff I don’t remember learning at school but I know that’s where it happened because every now and then something triggers a memory of it.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think that stuff does impact them even when they don’t remember specifics.  There’s a tonne of stuff I don’t remember learning at school but I know that’s where it happened because every now and then something triggers a memory of it.

When my youngest was four, we took a trip to Niagara Falls. Stayed there for a week; could look right out the window and into one of the seven wonders of the natural world. What ds remembers most about that trip? That the hotel TV had Mario Kart, which we did not have at home. 🙄

I did have pictures of the falls posted on our homeschool wall for several years, though. My proof we did cool things. 

[regentrude]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

@BlsdMama I like what you wrote to @Melissa Louise. 

I was, and have always been, a person who championed the “Never too late!” mindset. ...

I also came to realize that some things *do* come off the table with every passing year, mostly due to potential return on investment, if not due to less energy after medical issues and aging have had their say.

I have come to think now that my “Never too late!!” way of thinking was overly optimistic and naive. 

Thanks for saying this. Sometimes the ' never too late" mindset borders dangerously on toxic positivity. It's simply not true. My dream was to be an opera singer; that ship had sailed completely decades ago, because you don't even get into conservatory as a vocal performer after a certain age. I will also never have a tenure track position, it's not possible to suddenly begin a research program after 25 years away from active research. I have zero chance of  becoming an elite climber.

I find it important to acknowledge that some choices close doors permanently, and that it's OK to mourn the missed opportunities. That doesn't mean rewriting history and dismissing those choices. But it's OK to be sad. No, sometimes it is indeed too late, and all we can do is make our peace with that.

[ktgrok]

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

When my youngest was four, we took a trip to Niagara Falls. Stayed there for a week; could look right out the window and into one of the seven wonders of the natural world. What ds remembers most about that trip? That the hotel TV had Mario Kart, which we did not have at home. 🙄

I did have pictures of the falls posted on our homeschool wall for several years, though. My proof we did cool things. 

This is so funny! And totally how things would go here. I know we have similar stories but can't remember them right now (I guess the memory thing is genetic)

I do know that once we went to a petting zoo/farm place. DD11 was about 4, and all she would talk about on the way there, and as we walked through the whole big place, was wanting to see the rabbits. Over and over. Non stop. We finally got to the rabbit pen, she waited in line for 15 minutes with DH. They got almost to the front of the line and she threw a fit, said she was bored and not waiting anymore, and we abandoned the whole idea. Got food, went home. In the car on the way home we asked what her favorite part was - the pigs, the ponies, the food? 

She grinned and said, "The rabbits!"

Y'all...she never even got to them!!!!

Kids are weird. 

[ScoutTN]

My regret is not homeschooling, but rather my choices before that. I had zero direction or motivation in undergrad and goofed off mostly. I wish I had really worked hard and learned.

I also wish that I had been saving money and investing for retirement in those early years. No one taught me that.

I also wish I’d chosen a career direction that made more money. I have always had part time work, paid reasonably well for the time I put in, but now that I am trying to restart a career in earnest, I wish something other than ministry or teaching were an option. 

I have a graduate degree in theology, which I loved doing and do not regret, but it certainly isn’t helping me right now.

 

[Not_a_Number]

Also... I appreciate everyone's suggestions, but honestly, I've been fighting this for more than a year now, and I don't think I can actually fix this myself. And the schools around here are certainly good enough that they aren't a bad option. And I'd like some peace in the household. 

I would also note that DD9 now speaks Russian, writes well, and has done math approximately through Algebra 1 and high school geometry 😛 . She's also read a TON of books she wouldn't have read if she'd been in school. (She also has a good understanding of evolution and DNA as a bonus, lol -- we've been doing biology for a while over here, since we're very interest-led for science.) I feel pretty defeated, but I also can't argue that we haven't gotten anything done. 

I don't think I'll regret homeschooling even if she does go back to school. In some sense, I've done what I wanted to, which is to give her a solid background in math and critical thinking.

[ktgrok]

17 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

I would also note that DD9 now speaks Russian, writes well, and has done math approximately through Algebra 1 and high school geometry 😛 .

 

so....trying to reconcile this with the "won't put in any real effort" description......and I think you are right...you have trouble being chill in this area, lol. Hugs, it's hard. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

so....trying to reconcile this with the "won't put in any real effort" description......and I think you are right...you have trouble being chill in this area, lol. Hugs, it's hard. 

There's nothing to reconcile. She's really smart, and so far, she's managed to allow me to drag her through the learning. 

She's gifted. She really is. She doesn't NEED to put in a ton of effort to learn things well. So what we've done so far is I've gotten annoyed at her and frustrated at her and MADE her put in the effort. Over and over again, for a grinding 3 years. And yeah, it has borne fruit. I can't argue it hasn't. But it doesn't mean she's ever managed to make a reasonable effort without other people investing a ton of emotional energy. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Soror]

I do not regret homeschooling. I loved and still love it. It was/is the best job in the world. Not every day was/is roses and sunshine and hs'ing with littles underfoot was exhausting. However, those readalouds, nature walks, discussion, being there when they 'got' reading, or long division. Seeing them improve. Knowing they got to have slow unhurried days as the world keeps getting busier was priceless. I can more clearly see the pros and cons of both sides now (not just the hs'ers version which generally glosses over the cons of hsing and pros of ps'ing).

BUT

It is a disappointment at times that they don't remember all the things I put so much thought and time and attention to over the years. Dd is really into plants and is thinking she wants a career in forestry. She thinks she just came to this all on her own, no acknowledgement of all the nature study time we did having any influence. Hmph.

 For my own piece of mind I wish I had held more loosely to the idea that hs'ing was just a choice to be set aside when it is no longer the best choice because when hs'ing was no longer the best option and they wanted to go to school I was heartbroken. 

 I'm disillusioned with the hs movement as a whole. There are too many that are very pie in the sky. Homeschooling is the best and ps'ing is the cause of all the problems. Ps kids can't possible have good relationships with their parents. Ps'ers don't really have time to make friends in school anyway. And many more lies hs'ers tell themselves. And I'm disillusioned with hs'ers themselves. The ones that look at me like a leper now that I have kids in school. That make comments about me not being dedicated in the first place because I put kids in school. The ones that think I'm too "worldly" to associate with their kids. I spent years planning and doing for the hs community and I don't think it was worth it. The vast majority don't care to give anything back and just use and use. 

I love hs'ing but it is not perfect. And it is not perfect for every kid. In areas without a sizable hs population (where I live and many other places) it can be hard for kids to meet their social needs as hs'ers especially as they get older. For some kids, as they get older and start to become their own person they have a desire and need to be taught from someone other than mom (sometimes that can be accomplished through DE, co-op, or other classes- but sometimes that is not enough or doesn't fit the kid). Some kids also thrive on that outside validation and discussion about their work- which again may be able to be met through other avenues or may not. Some kids have strong personalities and it works better for them to have time away from home for everyone's benefit. Some kids have specialized needs that can be met at school. 

I am glad I didn't work when the kids were small. I was just hanging in there as it was. But I wish I had found a PT job at home sooner than it did. I wish I had some more skills to do other jobs to help us out more but currently I'm ok with it all. I have considered going back to school for a career change after dh graduates but IDK if it would be worth the time and money. Being honest with myself PT work suites me better anyway. I don't think I'd stay in a FT job unless I just had to and I want to keep flexibility to spend time with the kids and dh.

Of course my thoughts, opinions, and plans are subject to change. I went through a spell several years back of wanting more and exploring different things. It could come again- I'm sure as the kids leave the nest I'll go through another transition as I have went through in the last few years. I hope it is not quite as painful and ugly but I have a feeling it will be.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Soror

[Idalou]

On 9/20/2021 at 3:04 PM, klmama said:

This.  I can't even fathom a cause-effect connection between a secure upbringing and failure to work hard.  Knowing how to work hard comes from learning how to work hard, which can happen in any kind of family.   

 It seems to me the same mentality that claims a poor person in the US will often become lazy and then their kids will grow up lazy because they get free food, section 8 free housing and free healthcare. 

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

There's nothing to reconcile. She's really smart, and so far, she's managed to allow me to drag her through the learning. 

She's gifted. She really is. She doesn't NEED to put in a ton of effort to learn things well. So what we've done so far is I've gotten annoyed at her and frustrated at her and MADE her put in the effort. Over and over again, for a grinding 3 years. And yeah, it has borne fruit. I can't argue it hasn't. But it doesn't mean she's ever managed to make a reasonable effort without other people investing a ton of emotional energy. 

Oh, I get that - to get a 9 yr old up through Algebra took a lot of work and effort on your part..what I meant was, some parents would have not tried to get her through Algebra but let her coast along in grade level math or slightly above, which she could do with little to no effort I imagine, which would mean less dragging. But when this is your kid and you know what she is capable of, letting her put in less effort in order to avoid the annoyance and frustration wasn't really an option. It will be, in school, most likely. But they don't have the same level of emotional investment. And, I know you did this also because she gets bored with the simple stuff, so I suppose either way there would be frustration and annoyance. 

And honestly, not saying you shouldn't send her to school - I know where you are there are so many more amazing school options than we have here! She sounds like she will thrive anywhere, and if she doesn't, you know you can try something else. 

[marbel]

One of the things I have been sure to make clear to my daughter (whether she wants to hear it or not, whether she listens or not) is that completely checking out of the work world for years to raise kids is not sustainable in the world we have today. 

My mother never told me that because it was a sustainable life for her, and lots of other women her age. Most of my aunts did not work after they had kids. Stay-home unemployed moms were the norm when I was growing up. So there is no reason my mother would have counseled me on the wisdom of keeping my hand in employed work. 

So my kids saw me go back to work at age 62 when their dad was laid off and I had to do something. They see me working at my crappy low-level job every day. At my age, yeah, a career change is not on the table and all I am fit for now is call center customer service work. BUT I might have been able to keep up, at least somewhat, with my previous career (corporate training) and the changes in technology that have occurred since I used to do training classes using an overhead projector and transparencies. Some of you probably don't even know what those are. 😁 But I didn't keep up. I walked away from it all, happily.

And sure, there does come a point where certain things are off the table. @BlsdMamalovely post did not gloss over that. 

I do get the money worries, I truly do. 25 years ago I never dreamed I would be worrying about money, working at a crappy job when I should be reading, gardening, and hiking every day. But I own my decisions; I made them. I know some people had bad decisions made for them, and I know that's got to hurt a lot. 

ETA: I also share my regrets with young stay-home moms I know. Not in a "here's some unsolicited advice from wise old me" way, but in the course of conversations on the topic of life after homeschooling. I know a lot of young homeschool moms and many of them expect to be SAHMs forever. And, it may work out for some of them. But I do try to plant the seed of thinking about having some marketable skills in the back pocket.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by marbel

[Carrie12345]

17 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

Divorce would be rough for me as well. Since the cost of real estate has skyrocketed, finding a home to buy/rent in an area near where my kids are would be difficult. And that would be with my using half of the equity in our house. (Community property state here, I think)

A couple I know recently “separated”, but continue cohabitating ‘cuz $$$. 2 careers, kids in school. 
Obviously, more money is more than no money, but these issues aren’t always homeschool/sahp-caused.

Had I been working, perhaps I’d be tied up in a more expensive home and higher overall bills if a bad thing were to happen. I’ll never know.

[Not_a_Number]

33 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Oh, I get that - to get a 9 yr old up through Algebra took a lot of work and effort on your part..what I meant was, some parents would have not tried to get her through Algebra but let her coast along in grade level math or slightly above, which she could do with little to no effort I imagine, which would mean less dragging

I actually don't think you get it. NOT taking her through algebra would have taken far more effort and frustration. She's my kid who'd throw tantrums when faced with 5 double digit addition problems but who would then happily convert 10 different numbers from binary to decimal (which, I'll note, involved something like 50 double digit addition problems! But they felt MOTIVATED, and that made a huge difference to her.) 

I wasn't ever TRYING to get my gifted child through algebra. I got her through algebra because she ASKED me to learn algebra at the beginning of grade 2. I really don't want to know what would have happened if I refused. 

The things she's having trouble with are things like "checking whether the word she copied is the same as the word below the line" and "bothering to check the number of days in February." She makes LESS effort on stuff that's "too easy." She wants things to be interesting. Grade level math is the opposite of interesting! 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Not_a_Number