Anyone else regret homeschooling?

[bookbard]

5 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I keep thinking of a short story I read years ago (which I can't remember or find the title or author of at the moment) in which a man wanders into a bookstore where every customer finds a book that shows them the best moment of their lives. Despite the caveat that he might not like what he finds, the protagonist goes in and pulls a book off the shelf. It's a children's picture book, and by reading it he discovers that the best moment of his life happened when he was 10 years old and caught the ball that won his team's baseball game. Essentially, he learns that he will never have a moment that good again for the rest of his life.

Wow, that is intense - interesting though! 

[Not_a_Number]

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

Can you elaborate? You really have not found people being motivated by their environment appreciating what they do? (Of course, that's mostly true for extroverts; many introverts find their internal satisfaction with their achievements to be the main motivator.)
For many things, recognition and appreciation will be the only external reward ever. I'd rather not want my kid to look to finances before they decide to do a good job.

I suppose it might be my ornery, introverted family, but a sense of appreciation is pretty low on the list of things that motivate either my DH or my kids. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

My family lives in a 2200 square foot house on 70 acres. My kids are more spoiled than yours....

But probably not compared to their neighbors, you know? 😉 I'd guess that it's not unusual where you live to have a large house. Whereas we just moved in a 2,000 square foot place in Manhattan. It's nowhere near normal. 

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, Quill said:

I would not recommend homeschooling to my kids if/when they are parents and it wouldn't matter if I did. My two adults are varying degrees of soured on hsing. They believe they missed a lot of good "normal" experiences. And while, yes, they also had many experiences that kids in school do not have, and while not all the experiences kids in school may have that they missed are worth feeling sorry about, I can truly say that my goals in homeschooling had a lot to do with a mistaken belief that I could shield my kids from life's bucket of crap by homeschooling. I believed all the sod about how siblings will be best friends, our relationships with them as parents will be superior, they would all be voracious readers who love learning for it's own sake, and we would spend days hiking while talking about the philosophical plot points of the Harry Potter series and why it is a superb example of a Hero's Journey. 

Which experiences are they sad to have missed, out of curiosity? 

It's really interesting reading all these replies. I definitely didn't go into this with the impression that it would improve family relationships, lol. I went into this with the impression that I'm a really good math teacher and that I wanted my kid to feel like math and science are things she was good at and allowed to like. I've succeeded at that beyond my wildest dreams. And while it's been more of a strain on our relationship than I wish it had, I never did do it for our relationship, so while I regret that, it doesn't make it feel pointless.

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I suppose it might be my ornery, introverted family, but a sense of appreciation is pretty low on the list of things that motivate either my DH or my kids. 

Interesting. Even for my - very much internally motivated - introverts, it is important to have their peers' respect, to have their accomplishments acknowledged and their contributions appreciated. For DH, the professional recognition in his scientific community and the reputation he has among colleagues is important; for DS, it is the respect from his team mates and professors. I don't believe even introverts are happy existing without any signs that they have earned a place in, and are appreciated by, their respective communities. I don't think that is human nature.
But I guess I am wrong... if your folks don't care .

ETA: Or to turn it around: I have time and time seen how NOT being appreciated and respected is sure to kill any residual motivation. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by regentrude

[Murphy101]

I’ve known people who deeply regret homeschooling. I know people who deeply regret marriage and or having kids at all. 

I know a lot of people who hit that 20 year anniversary mark and they are on the brink of divorce because of all those regrets.

For most of them, I’d say it’s because they were living in denial and regularly hearing snake-oil sales about if they just completed this checklist, they’d have this amazing wonderful financially stable Christian ideal of marriage and grown kids. And eventually, they just couldn’t cope with how much that isn’t true anymore. And the community that perpetuated that? Basically shuns everyone who can’t maintain that image anymore.

I’m luck I’m not one of them but yeah I’ve seen a fair amount of that. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, regentrude said:

Interesting. Even for my - very much internally motivated - introverts, it is important to have their peers' respect, to have their accomplishments acknowledged and their contributions appreciated. For DH, the professional recognition in his scientific community and the reputation he has among colleagues is important; for DS, it is the respect from his team mates and professors. I don't believe even introverts are happy existing without any signs that they have earned a place in, and are appreciated by, their respective communities. I don't think that is human nature.
But I guess I am wrong... if your folks don't care 

It's not that they don't care, it's that it's not a primary motivator. Both DH and DD9 are very internally driven and aren't very receptive to positive feedback of the "I appreciate this" form. I'm somewhat driven by appreciation but probably less so than average in most things, since my internal drives are much stronger.

They are QUITE motivated by a sense of accomplishment. But it's not really a "people appreciate me" vibe. It's a "I want to do well and I'm competitive!" vibe. It's a different feel to it. 

DD5 is my social butterfly and is in fact driven by appreciation. But she's an outlier in the family. 

[fairfarmhand]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Interesting. Even for my - very much internally motivated - introverts, it is important to have their peers' respect, to have their accomplishments acknowledged and their contributions appreciated. For DH, the professional recognition in his scientific community and the reputation he has among colleagues is important; for DS, it is the respect from his team mates and professors. I don't believe even introverts are happy existing without any signs that they have earned a place in, and are appreciated by, their respective communities. I don't think that is human nature.
But I guess I am wrong... if your folks don't care 

My dh is like this. It annoys the crap out of me because he is satisfied just being awesome, and gets a smug sense of superiority knowing that he was awesome and nobody has to know it was him who was so awesome.

it’s annoying to live with because he can NOT remember that most ordinary people DO like their accomplishments and contributions recognized 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Interesting. Even for my - very much internally motivated - introverts, it is important to have their peers' respect, to have their accomplishments acknowledged and their contributions appreciated. For DH, the professional recognition in his scientific community and the reputation he has among colleagues is important; for DS, it is the respect from his team mates and professors. I don't believe even introverts are happy existing without any signs that they have earned a place in, and are appreciated by, their respective communities. I don't think that is human nature.
But I guess I am wrong... if your folks don't care 

You know how we were just talking about whether grades matter, lol? DD9 cares way more about the grade I give her than she would about me appreciating her work. The possibility of a bad grade affects her behavior. The possibility that I'd be grateful that she worked hard or proud of her if she did (or any other emotional incentive I could give) wouldn't change her behavior an iota. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

My dh is like this. It annoys the crap out of me because he is satisfied just being awesome, and gets a smug sense of superiority knowing that he was awesome and nobody has to know it was him who was so awesome.

it’s annoying to live with because he can NOT remember that most ordinary people DO like their accomplishments and contributions recognized 

Oh look, we're agreeing about our DHs and eldest children, lol. Again. 

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Oh look, we're agreeing about our DHs and eldest children, lol. Again. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

oh my…

[Murphy101]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I suppose it might be my ornery, introverted family, but a sense of appreciation is pretty low on the list of things that motivate either my DH or my kids. 

Me either. I don’t even do the volunteer appreciation stuff. If I know someone is going to that for me? I skip out!  I tend to be very self depreciating rather than praise seeking. Praise makes me nervous like why is someone saying that nice thing? Did I say something to make them think I am needy or did I whine or something or what? 

Now my husband and several kids? They LIVE for verbal and open praise!  They live for applause and kudos and thanks.  I’ve mastered constantly saying  “I love you and that’s wonderful - thank you so much!” I mean it’s true I feel that way about them but *I* feel uncomfortable when people talk to me that way. 

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, maize said:

I always wanted a big family, and homeschooling or not it is near impossible to be mother to a bunch of kids and simultaneously have a thriving career. I chose the path I care more about. 

I'm going to write my books someday though.

I always wanted several kids….ended up with an only….but I still feel motherhood was the most important thing  I ever did.  I loved I was able to be a SAHM even after my divorce…..

My biggest regrets have nothing to do with homeschooling. 

[regentrude]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

It's not that they don't care, it's that it's not a primary motivator. Both DH and DD9 are very internally driven and aren't very receptive to positive feedback of the "I appreciate this" form. I'm somewhat driven by appreciation but probably less so than average in most things, since my internal drives are much stronger.

They are QUITE motivated by a sense of accomplishment. But it's not really a "people appreciate me" vibe. It's a "I want to do well and I'm competitive!" vibe. It's a different feel to it. 

DD5 is my social butterfly and is in fact driven by appreciation. But she's an outlier in the family. 

I didn't say "primary" - of course the introvert is primarily intrinsically motivated. But being competetive is by its very nature about measuring oneself against somebody else, about winning status and respect by virtue of excelling -and the recognition that comes with it. I didn't mean "appreciate" in the mushy sense (Oh I am sooo grateful you exist)- I mean it in the sense of somebody appreciating that this person is really good at xyz, like you appreciate the elegance of a mathematical proof, or the genius of an invention. I as thinking of motivators like having a  paper accepted by a prestigious journal, or being chosen by your team mates as a training partner. Sorry if I didn't express that precisely

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

I mean it’s true I feel that way about them but *I* feel uncomfortable when people talk to me that way. 

Ah yeah, that sounds familiar. DD9 doesn't like hearing "I love you." At all. It makes her squirm. DH said he was exactly the same as a kid, although he's thankfully grown out of it. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, regentrude said:

I didn't say "primary" - of course the introvert is primarily intrinsically motivated. But being competetive is by its very nature about measuring oneself against somebody else, about winning status and respect by virtue of excelling -and the recognition that comes with it. I didn't mean "appreciate" in the mushy sense (Oh I am sooo grateful you exist)- I mean it in the sense of somebody appreciating that this person is really good at xyz, like you appreciate the elegance of a mathematical proof, or the genius of an invention. I as thinking of motivators like having a  paper accepted by a prestigious journal, or being chosen by your team mates as a training partner. Sorry if I didn't express that precisely

I think if you include "feeling superior to other people" as being about appreciation, then I'd agree with you 🙂 . I do think feedback of some sort is important to lots of people. 

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But probably not compared to their neighbors, you know? 😉 I'd guess that it's not unusual where you live to have a large house. Whereas we just moved in a 2,000 square foot place in Manhattan. It's nowhere near normal. 

Wow…..that seems….amazing. Congrats.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Wow…..that seems….amazing. Congrats.  

It was a splurge 😳. I feel guilty about it. But we haven't had a bedroom with a door that closes for the last 5 years. And it has always been DH's dream to live in Manhattan, so I knew we'd be staying put. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

It was a splurge 😳. I feel guilty about it. But we haven't had a bedroom with a door that closes for the last 5 years. And it has always been DH's dream to live in Manhattan, so I knew we'd be staying put. 

If I could afford 2000 sf in Manhattan I would consider it.  

[Dmmetler]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

I think there is a lot of this even for people who never took a week off work.  🙂

I think the idealism and creativity kind of fade after a certain age.  Or maybe our kids soak it all up while they are young - whether we work or not.

Recently I have started hoping that I can maybe do something with music someday ... so it's not totally gone ... but I'm definitely not the person I was pre-kids.

FWIW, one of my piano students currently is 49. She played as a kid, quit in middle school and decided, why not? When she asked around, I came highly recommended-by her girl scout troop.

 

I admire that. I want to find some sort of fun, social thing to do-honestly, I wish the cheer gym would do an adult rec team. Something for me. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

If I could afford 2000 sf in Manhattan I would consider it.  

You know how people are talking about not working during homeschooling? 😛 We can't really afford that anymore 😛.  

[Elizabeth86]

Well not yet. I don’t think I will. I saw my mom dedicate her whole life to serving her family and I just always imagined that would be what would fulfill me too. So far so good. I have no ambitions for anything that doesn’t involve my babies. When my little girl learns a new sound of a letter in phonics or gets a new blend, she squeals with delight and hugs me. I wouldn’t miss that for anything. I treasure these moments so much. I can’t imagine missing these moments.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Elizabeth86

[Jean in Newcastle]

59 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

If I had known that my son would not remember even half of what we did, I would have not stressed so much about our activities and done a whole lot less. 😂

Children's theater shows? Nope, he doesn't remember

Tumbling class? No recollection

Nature classes at the park? No

Our first art teacher? *blank stare*

But I think that those activities have contributed to our kid’s mental and social growth.   They might not remember but I remember the connections being made on field trips, the snuggles and richness of language from the read alouds and the spark of interest in their eyes. I know that having a language and concept rich environment is never a mistake. 
 

I really do get the mid life reckoning. My road not taken was a pretty cool one - invited directly into a phd program with research grants, the whole works. But the road I took wasn’t chopped liver. I gave my kids the best childhood and education that I knew how. Not a perfect one by any means. But a pretty good one nonetheless. 
 

Now that my kids are adults they are reinterpreting things. I have no control over how they might do that. Even if they suddenly decided that homeschooling was the worst thing ever, I know that they were enthusiastic participants. (Ok - not all the time, and not every subject). But on balance.  
 

 

[Faith-manor]

12 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I’ve known people who deeply regret homeschooling. I know people who deeply regret marriage and or having kids at all. 

I know a lot of people who hit that 20 year anniversary mark and they are on the brink of divorce because of all those regrets.

For most of them, I’d say it’s because they were living in denial and regularly hearing snake-oil sales about if they just completed this checklist, they’d have this amazing wonderful financially stable Christian ideal of marriage and grown kids. And eventually, they just couldn’t cope with how much that isn’t true anymore. And the community that perpetuated that? Basically shuns everyone who can’t maintain that image anymore.

I’m luck I’m not one of them but yeah I’ve seen a fair amount of that. 

I have seen a lot of this as well. So many do the homeschool mothers I know slogged through, got their kids to graduation, and then ended up divorced and no career, no decent job prospects. It is frightening to be in late 40's and up, and not enough time to begin to rebuild financially. Most of the judges and mediators are male misogynists. They expect a woman to do all the work of home, and to sacrifice her career for her husband's, but they do not consider any contribution she made to be worth money, and do not respect homeschooling at all. These women are usually just financially wiped out. There is very real risk to staying out of the work force for so long.

Since so many of them home schooled for religious reasons, the harsh reality is that often their religious community abandons them after the divorce. It is so sad to watch.

Most of the time I just feel so very grateful that dh and I survived, and have good relationships with our adult kids. I do not for one minute pretend that we somehow did something magical, or just right or whatever. Grateful. That is the word. I am sure it could just as easily have gone the other way. 

 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Me. This is pretty much exactly what I think. 

I am sorry I didn't study law and earn a J.D.  I daresay I would make a good lawyer. I wish I had really thought about what not earning a "real" wage for twenty years really means when you're 50. I belong to a paralegal group on FB and whenever the subject turns to pay rates, I truthfully am a bit bitter about it; I can never make up for it now, no matter how awesome a paralegal I may be.  There are paralegals earning four times what I earn and with a full spate of benefits. 

I would not recommend homeschooling to my kids if/when they are parents and it wouldn't matter if I did. My two adults are varying degrees of soured on hsing. They believe they missed a lot of good "normal" experiences. And while, yes, they also had many experiences that kids in school do not have, and while not all the experiences kids in school may have that they missed are worth feeling sorry about, I can truly say that my goals in homeschooling had a lot to do with a mistaken belief that I could shield my kids from life's bucket of crap by homeschooling. I believed all the sod about how siblings will be best friends, our relationships with them as parents will be superior, they would all be voracious readers who love learning for it's own sake, and we would spend days hiking while talking about the philosophical plot points of the Harry Potter series and why it is a superb example of a Hero's Journey. 

*roll eyes here* 

I am very happy (so far) with how my kids are turning out, but - in part as I see other never-homeschooled kids turn out just as well, AND some homeschooled kids turn out...less well - I no longer think that's because I made this superior choice and sacrifice to teach my kids myself at home. Now I sometimes feel about the same way as I felt that time I made homemade pepper and poppyseed crackers - it was a whole lot of time and effort and in the end, it was just a cracker. I could have had crackers somebody else made...they probably even would have been just as good or better.

In the end it was just a cracker. 

That, exactly! 

#seen

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

In the end it was just a cracker. 

That, exactly! 

#seen

So do you kind of feel like the effort you made was a lot like spending a lot of time doing something someone else would have done just as well? 

[Melissa Louise]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So do you kind of feel like the effort you made was a lot like spending a lot of time doing something someone else would have done just as well? 

Not exactly. 

Someone else may very well NOT have given the kids such an education but the imagined long term effect of the education was over-stated (by me) and cost a lot. 

A mismatch between perceived benefit at the time and actual cost, with the benefit of hindsight. Not that there was no benefit or it wasn't done well. 

I think in future, when advising newbies, I'd want to steer some people - who would probably do a good job - away. I think it works best long term when there's a lot of solidity behind it.

A solid life experience, including a career, for the primary educator, a solid marriage, a very solid financial situation. Solid opportunities to keep skilled and experienced outside the home. I think that would best mitigate against it going wrong for the primary educator down the track. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Someone else may very well NOT have given the kids such an education but the imagined long term effect of the education was over-stated (by me) and cost a lot. 

What did you think the long-term effect would be? 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Me. This is pretty much exactly what I think. 

I am sorry I didn't study law and earn a J.D.  I daresay I would make a good lawyer. I wish I had really thought about what not earning a "real" wage for twenty years really means when you're 50. I belong to a paralegal group on FB and whenever the subject turns to pay rates, I truthfully am a bit bitter about it; I can never make up for it now, no matter how awesome a paralegal I may be.  There are paralegals earning four times what I earn and with a full spate of benefits. 

I would not recommend homeschooling to my kids if/when they are parents and it wouldn't matter if I did. My two adults are varying degrees of soured on hsing. They believe they missed a lot of good "normal" experiences. And while, yes, they also had many experiences that kids in school do not have, and while not all the experiences kids in school may have that they missed are worth feeling sorry about, I can truly say that my goals in homeschooling had a lot to do with a mistaken belief that I could shield my kids from life's bucket of crap by homeschooling. I believed all the sod about how siblings will be best friends, our relationships with them as parents will be superior, they would all be voracious readers who love learning for it's own sake, and we would spend days hiking while talking about the philosophical plot points of the Harry Potter series and why it is a superb example of a Hero's Journey. 

*roll eyes here* 

I am very happy (so far) with how my kids are turning out, but - in part as I see other never-homeschooled kids turn out just as well, AND some homeschooled kids turn out...less well - I no longer think that's because I made this superior choice and sacrifice to teach my kids myself at home. Now I sometimes feel about the same way as I felt that time I made homemade pepper and poppyseed crackers - it was a whole lot of time and effort and in the end, it was just a cracker. I could have had crackers somebody else made...they probably even would have been just as good or better.

Yes. I think parents are the key ingredients. Really doesn’t matter what you choose.  Yeah. I doubt mine will homeschool.  They don’t exactly blame me but yeah, think having a normal experience would have beem better.  And yeah, it took a huge toll on me. But I bought into all of the lies about homeschooling being superior. 

[Guest]

@Not_a_Number I don’t think it was particular experiences my kids felt they missed; it was the entire cultural experience of being part of public school, same as ninety-whatever percent of their peers. It was hearing the bell ring and knowing that means students move to the next class, instead of sitting there with dinner-plate eyeballs, wondering what’s happening. (This was dd’s experience in 9th grade; her Maid of Honor just included that little joke when she spoke at the wedding.) 

It was riding the bus and having a strict teacher and changing for gym class and having to run the mile for fitness tests. It was knowing how to get lunch from the cafeteria and knowing what a pink slip is and understanding that bangs are out of style. It was a million little cultural experiences I *thought* they would never miss. I was wrong…

 

Interestingly, I too, had an unusual elementary education; I attended a tiny, extremely religious Christian school until partially through sixth grade. And then I was chucked into public school with *also* no knowledge of those things. I didn’t know what a “ditto sheet” was, had never used a Scan-tron testing sheet, didn’t know what “home room” meant, or what “grading on a curve” was. Hell, I didn’t even know what the question, “What grade are you in?” meant; I thought it was something to do with how good a student you were. I unwittingly set my kids up for pretty much the same, exact situation I had faced. The only thing that was perhaps better was that they all started school at the start of 9th grade, and not randomly in the middle of the year. 
 

Some other always-homeschooled adults I know report similar confusion, except it was in college. A couple have said they had no idea how to take responsibility for their college classes because they never did it before. And several felt they had very weak social skills in making friends, resolving conflict, and tolerating people who are very different. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

What did you think the long-term effect would be? 

That's a good question. 

Nothing to do with academics, because I always assumed they'd do fine either at home or school. And they did, though ds is significantly derailed by his ADHD, which probably would have been picked up earlier at school.

I probably felt there would be a family bonding effect that persisted, especially between siblings, and there hasn't been. 

I definitely felt they would grow up to be more heterodox than they are - I partly took them out of school to give them that opportunity - but they are disappointingly not! 

I hoped they would have memories of a lot of childhood freedom, both academically, personally and creatively.

I think for them it was just a norm. They've nothing to compare it to, so it never seemed that special. 

And finally ( and most egregiously), I had the mad idea that taking 20+ years out of the work force was a problem that future me could take care of. Well, thanks past me, but really?! I was kinda dumb. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, Quill said:

@Not_a_Number I don’t think it was particular experiences my kids felt they missed; it was the entire cultural experience of being part of public school, same as ninety-whatever percent of their peers. It was hearing the bell ring and knowing that means students move to the next class, instead of sitting there with dinner-plate eyeballs, wondering what’s happening. (This was dd’s experience in 9th grade; her Maid of Honor just included that little joke when she spoke at the wedding.) 

It was riding the bus and having a strict teacher and changing for gym class and having to run the mile for fitness tests. It was knowing how to get lunch from the cafeteria and knowing what a pink slip is and understanding that bangs are out of style. It was a million little cultural experiences I *thought* they would never miss. I was wrong…

 

Interestingly, I too, had an unusual elementary education; I attended a tiny, extremely religious Christian school until partially through sixth grade. And then I was chucked into public school with *also* no knowledge of those things. I didn’t know what a “ditto sheet” was, had never used a Scan-tron testing sheet, didn’t know what “home room” meant, or what “grading on a curve” was. Hell, I didn’t even know what the question, “What grade are you in?” meant; I thought it was something to do with how good a student you were. I unwittingly set my kids up for pretty much the same, exact situation I had faced. The only thing that was perhaps better was that they all started school at the start of 9th grade, and not randomly in the middle of the year. 
 

Some other always-homeschooled adults I know report similar confusion, except it was in college. A couple have said they had no idea how to take responsibility for their college classes because they never did it before. And several felt they had very weak social skills in making friends, resolving conflict, and tolerating people who are very different. 

Did they feel like they got something in return for missing those experiences? When they did start to realize that they missed out? 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Melissa Louise said:

I probably felt there would be a family bonding effect that persisted, especially between siblings, and there hasn't been. 

Aw, I'm sorry about that. I have to admit that I sometimes do hope for that with the kids. Any idea why that didn't pan out? 

 

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I hoped they would have memories of a lot of childhood freedom, both academically, personally and creatively.

Yeah, freedom doesn't seem to lead to making lots of memories, lol. It's too routine and uneventful. I'm already seeing that in my kids. 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Aw, I'm sorry about that. I have to admit that I sometimes do hope for that with the kids. Any idea why that didn't pan out? 

 

Yeah, freedom doesn't seem to lead to making lots of memories, lol. It's too routine and uneventful. I'm already seeing that in my kids. 

Yes, I think there's a role for constraints. I had such a bad experience of school that I was allergic to constraint for a long time and perhaps it hasn't served anyone long term. 

Re siblings, mental illness threw a big wrench in one set of sibling relationships with the healthy sibling desperately resentful of the previously close, often unwell sibling.

One sibling is close to both. But they are not a close sibling group anymore. We're not doing the fun family get together around the kitchen table. I prefer to see each child separately because there's always tension when we are all together. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

One sibling is close to both. But they are not a close sibling group anymore. We're not doing the fun family get together around the kitchen table. I prefer to see each child separately because there's always tension when we are all together. 

I think sometimes, too much togetherness does lead to tension 😕 . 

DH and his sister are very close. They are 5 years apart and spent all of their childhood bugging each other (mostly his little sister bugging him) and torturing each other (mostly him torturing his little sister.) All this stuff is incredibly unpredictable. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think sometimes, too much togetherness does lead to tension 😕 . 

DH and his sister are very close. They are 5 years apart and spent all of their childhood bugging each other (mostly his little sister bugging him) and torturing each other (mostly him torturing his little sister.) All this stuff is incredibly unpredictable. 

Yes, very unpredictable. The two estranged sibs are very close in age, and each other's best friends for a long time. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Melissa Louise said:

Yes, very unpredictable. The two estranged sibs are very close in age, and each other's best friends for a long time. 

 

They might make it up yet... but that must be very disheartening to watch 😕 . 

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

They might make it up yet... but that must be very disheartening to watch 😕 . 

It's difficult. 

Thank God for ds. Love to see him with each sib. Very warm relationships there. 

 

[EmilyGF]

My impression is that the people with the most regrets (both about public and private school) are the ones who were most dogmatic and unwilling to consider whether things were working for their family.

Since I don't live in a community of homeschoolers, I find myself frequently explaining why I homeschool. That keeps me aware of my "whys" for homeschooling. OTOH, I see public and private schooled kids who are having a terrible time, but whose parents are unwilling to reevaluate because, hey, public school is the normal thing, so why think about it? I also have close friends with careers and families and get to see their struggles up close (and listen to them envy me at times).

My husband has an awesome career, actually, his dream career at his dream employer. And this last year has sucked and he's been pretty frustrated.

Emily

[Melissa Louise]

9 minutes ago, EmilyGF said:

My impression is that the people with the most regrets (both about public and private school) are the ones who were most dogmatic and unwilling to consider whether things were working for their family.

Since I don't live in a community of homeschoolers, I find myself frequently explaining why I homeschool. That keeps me aware of my "whys" for homeschooling. OTOH, I see public and private schooled kids who are having a terrible time, but whose parents are unwilling to reevaluate because, hey, public school is the normal thing, so why think about it? I also have close friends with careers and families and get to see their struggles up close (and listen to them envy me at times).

My husband has an awesome career, actually, his dream career at his dream employer. And this last year has sucked and he's been pretty frustrated.

Emily

I actually sent one dd to school for h/s, and it was always on offer to the other two, so definitely don't fall into that camp. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Did they feel like they got something in return for missing those experiences? When they did start to realize that they missed out? 

When they went to school in 9th grade. That is when they both realized their experiences of their entire education was something only a small sliver of the population understood. That’s when they realized all the myriad ways their schooling was different and not relatable for the vast majority of people whom they would interact with for the rest of their lives. 
 

I’m sure my daughter, in particular, does not speak against homeschooling *too* much in part because she just got married to her always-homeschooled bf, whom she met when they were 12 and 13. So - at least that; homeschooling is how she met him, as well as one of her bffs, who was a bridesmaid. 
 

My son, who retains no relationships from hsing, is a bit more outspoken against hsing, though he does seem mindful of not wanting to attack the thing I spent a tremendous amount of time and heart on; he does seem aware that I wanted the best for my kids and that’s why I did it. But he struggled because he was very weak at understanding social cues (I get that because I was the same way; I think it is a mild autism-like trait) and 9th grade was really difficult for him. He felt like he didn’t fit in but he couldn’t understand what he was doing/not doing that pinged people’s oddity-meter. I think he was pretty much *saved* by getting on the LAX team and becoming a tall, good-looking guy. If you’re good at sports and you’re easy to look at, kids more readily look past your quirks. Not saying it’s fair; just true. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Quill said:

That’s when they realized all the myriad ways their schooling was different and not relatable for the vast majority of people whom they would interact with for the rest of their lives. 

Interesting. Did they not talk to their non-homeschooled friends about it before? Or did it just not strike them? 

What did they articulate liking about it as kids? 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[EmilyGF]

11 minutes ago, Quill said:

When they went to school in 9th grade. That is when they both realized their experiences of their entire education was something only a small sliver of the population understood. That’s when they realized all the myriad ways their schooling was different and not relatable for the vast majority of people whom they would interact with for the rest of their lives. 
 

 

Interesting. I never felt like my schooling was relatable to other people even though I went to public school. I was gifted. My parents were at the low end of the economic spectrum at our school. My dad had gone to boarding school for high school. I was an exchange student in high school. Relatable was never our goal growing up... But that was part of our family culture. I started working in 6th grade.

We had a family motto: "W____________s are weird." (And a family saying: "Where there's a W_________ there's a way.") These have been sources of pride, even now, at the age of 40.

For us, these were sources of pride. We've all taken weird paths, too.

Edited September 21, 2021 by EmilyGF

[Amy Gen]

I don’t regret my 20 plus years homeschooling or my years staying home with babies before that. I planned a life that I wanted for myself and my family, and I’m proud of myself that I was actually able to build it. 
 

I figure that I’ve given up over a million dollars in salary homeschooling, but I wouldn’t trade it, because I got what I expected out of it in terms of closeness, and influence over their educations. I never expected it to be easy or to have my kids and peers appreciate the job I do. 
 

My husband was at the pool yesterday and the other moms were complaining about how unhealthy it is that their kids get up and swim and then go to school, then swim again, then stay up all night doing homework. He told me, “I didn’t tell them that there is an alternative.”  Our teen gets up, eats breakfast, swims, eats second breakfast, puts back on comfy clothes and takes a nap, does school work with her private tutor (mom), swims again, eats dinner, plays games with her sisters and goes to bed at 10:00. That is worth a million dollars to me. 
 

That said, since Dh is now permanently working from home, I do plan to go back to work in the spring or summer. And the kids will continue homeschooling. Part of my plan is getting some surgeries done, which is actually good practice for Dh and the kids since I will be bedbound for a few months.

My girls found a private university that they want to attend and that I feel like will be a perfect continuation of their homeschool studies. They may get merit aid, but I don’t want the stress of any of us wondering if we can afford it. So I’m going to go back to teaching in the public school district and have my salary put directly into our savings for their college. I will also be able to earn my own pension so Dh and I will have 2 plus our 401k. If I want to keep working after the youngest graduates, I’ll start putting all of my salary into retirement. 
 

I feel like up until now, I’ve spent my time doing what was in the whole family’s best interest, and I’m going to continue doing that, even though my days are going to look very different. 

[teachermom2834]

You know people are just all so different. What @Quilldescribes makes total sense and I can see how it really was hard for her kids. I think I would have felt the way her kids did/do. I went to school but was always clueless because my parents were so strict. I hated it. 
 

But my kids, even though they never went to school, just didn’t think that stuff was a big deal. The first time in school was de at a local university junior year. They had hiccups getting settled but they just shrugged them off. They claim it made them comfortable being uncomfortable and how to handle unfamiliar situations and how to ask questions and adapt. 
 

So people and personalities are just so different. So of course there is no uniform outcome! But at least back in the 2003 when I started I sure believed it all about how superior of an approach it was in every way. I bought it. My dc don’t have the complaints that @Quill describes…but it was/is far from perfect and I have definitely had thoughts equivalent to “it’s a cracker”.

But I’m still doing it! 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Interesting. Did they not talk to their non-homeschooled friends about it before? Or did it just not strike them? 

What did they articulate liking about it as kids? 

Presumably not. As I said in a different thread, while both my older kids were *friendly* with non-homeschooled kids and were in certain groups or on teams with non-homeschooled kids, they *never* really turned those kids into “real” friends (until they went to school themselves). The disparity in life and school experience between their hs friends and non-hs friends was too great, I guess. 

What my kids said at the time they liked about hsing was: 1) Friday co-op (the closest experience they had to school; the center of their friendships), 2) better timing; not getting the bus early, 3) they could eat “anything” they wanted for breakfast and lunch, 4) most often didn’t hs for as many hours as school consumes; no homework in evenings, 5) once April rolled around, we spent a lot of time at parks and/or hiking. My kids all love hiking. 

[GracieJane]

This is timely! I was just having a conversation with my 69 year old friend (long story, I am an old soul and only have older friends 🙂 ). She said that she was feeling particularly ornery this week, because she has always been in a „caretaking“ role of helping others. Errands, chores, generally a „helping“ role. She said she felt that she rarely gets to just take care of herself and her purpose is doing things for family members. It was a very honest thought, and I can appreciate that many women end up feeling this way in later life.

[matrips]

I would say no, I don’t regret it.  I really enjoyed learning with my kids and allowing them a childhood with a lot of free time, nature exploration, reading, field trips (a ton!) and time with each other.  I had way more mom friends and families getting together when homeschooling than now. It was fun.  
 

BUT- we didn’t homeschool all the way.  They went to private high schools and I am very glad not to be homeschooling these years.  But they talk to me constantly and keep me filled in with their school and classes and what’s going on.  And I can still help out.

Also, I was a late mom, almost 40yo.  So I had a career and lots of travelling and me time before getting married and starting a family.  I think that greatly influences my perspective.  If homeschooling had been my entire adult life, then I don’t know if I would have had regrets. It’s hard to compare when we all come from different places.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think (and this is just my experience) the danger of looking back is that you can have rose-colored glasses or you can have mud-colored glasses.  Neither are objective.  It's only been after a few years post transition that I think that my glasses have gotten clearer.  I see both the good and the bad.  It wasn't totally one or the other.  (Though I stand by my feeling that on balance it was more positive than negative.) 

But - and I think that this might be a very big consideration for some - I have a solid marriage to someone who has had good health (and is now only a couple years from retirement) and any job I get now will not be necessary to pay the bills.  I am enough of an auto-didact that I can have plenty to interest me even if it isn't a career as such.  If I had been in a situation where I had had to work earlier in life it would have been my health and stamina that was a much bigger barrier than motherhood or homeschooling. 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's not about emotional security. It's about the sense that it matters (financially as well as in other ways) whether you screw up. 

I don't know... i don't tend to assume there's one right way to bring up children and that none of the other ways have ANY benefits. I think there are benefits to adversity sometimes, provided a person's personality is well-suited to dealing with it. Some people really do learn best from harder circumstances. Not all, of course. 

Now, does this mean I want to bring up my children to be deprived? No. We're very affluent, realistically. That's why I worry about it. 

I listen to some podcasts about people who are successful in business or what not, and how they got there. The ONE underlying thing is a supportive family to fall back on, if they needed it. 

5 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

😂

(I swear, I'd feel a LOT better about it if any of them evidenced memories of stuff we did and/or had kept reading!)

If it helps, I have VERY few memories of my schooling in public school. As in, I had to ask a friend lately if/when we took american history in highschool - as I had NO recollection of ever taking it! And I did early enrollment senior year, so I only went 3 years, out of that youd' think I would remember taking history! But nope. I remember my world history class, but that's because I had a huge crush on the teacher. I have no idea what we studied, if we did projects, etc, lol. I remember TWO science projects in highschool. One we rasied fruit flies for a genetics project and I only remember because they got loose in my locker. And the other one was something to do with fruit..actually I don't remember the project, I just remember the teacher getting mad at some of the kids for eating it. He paid for it out of pocket and was planning to take it home for his family..oops!

And elementary? I have like, 2 memories. 

That doesn't mean those teachers weren't an influence on me though! Or that they didn't matter?

Heck, my kids don't remember me nursing them, changing their diapers, rocking them for hours when they had colic or were teething, etc. But it still was important, and I'm sure had an impact on them in some way as far as growing up happy and healthy. 

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

You know how we were just talking about whether grades matter, lol? DD9 cares way more about the grade I give her than she would about me appreciating her work. The possibility of a bad grade affects her behavior. The possibility that I'd be grateful that she worked hard or proud of her if she did (or any other emotional incentive I could give) wouldn't change her behavior an iota. 

That doesn't sound like someone you need to worry about as far as taking life seriously. At all. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by ktgrok