Anyone else regret homeschooling?

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

Older boy was like this, and I came to believe 'easy work' was like proof reading a telephone book to him. He could want to do it and he could try to do it, but it was just so easy and boring and horrible that there was no way that he could do it. It wasn't that he *wouldn't* is was that he *couldn't*. This was not a hill that I was willing to die on. I let his skills run 6 years ahead and only shored up his weaknesses to grade level.  Perhaps you struggle with the inconsistent levels of the very gifted. By the age of 13, my older boy was 6 years ahead in math, 1 year behind in writing, and 4 years behind in Executive Function skills. Interacting with any person like this, let alone your own child, is confusing and exhausting. Things they should be able to do, the just cannot do. Don't be hard on yourself. Kids like this are hard. 

I think I'd have had an easier time with your older boy, because he pushed himself. DD9 doesn't push herself, either. I've tried experiments where I let her work mostly on her own, and it makes her sulky and sad. 

It's also definitely the case that she CAN do it. She's had days where she does it. She does it just fine for other teachers. What she has trouble with is finding the MOTIVATION to do it. 

[GoodGrief3]

13 hours ago, Clarita said:

I sort of wish someone told me that. Although not sure if I would have followed that advice when I was younger anyways. I had a super fulfilling career up until I had a second child, but it's hard to figure out how to do that part-time. 

I did the part time thing for a few years. It was the worst of all worlds for me. Still needed to keep up all professional requirements of a full time worker, did not have the same connection to co-workers. Kids were not in day care enough to feel entirely comfortable there, and the cost was higher because of part time status. They seemed to be there just enough to get whatever illness was going around, and the employer was less understanding about the part-timer calling in sick. Spent the first four hours of the day working to pay for the child care, and the rest bumped us up a tax bracket, so no real financial advantage at that time (some-20 odd years ago, tax laws may be different now).

All that to say, that there are pros and cons. For my profession and my situation, the cons outweighed the pros for me, I do know part time nurses though that seem to enjoy their situation. It's so individual.

[Not_a_Number]

47 minutes ago, Terabith said:

That energy isn't sustainable either though.  I agree that I definitely wouldn't send her pre vaccination.  I wouldn't make going to school a threat or a punishment, but I also would't make it a choice or a way to negotiate good behavior either.  You guys have tried a lot of things.  Your relationship needs a break.  It really doesn't seem to be healthy for either of you.  

I have no idea what's sustainable for her. I think she'll feel far angrier and unhappier if I put my foot down right now than if I let her have her way and try to convince me. Even if she fails, I think that's going to be a valuable experience of reaching for a goal for her. 

One way or another, our relationship is getting a break. I'm not doing the stressful stuff anymore. I'm not pushing her. I'm not trying to work with her. I'm leaving her be and insisting she make some time to play games with me and hang out with me. I feel like insisting that she not even try to show me she can work hard isn't right. 

[GoodGrief3]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's also definitely the case that she CAN do it. She's had days where she does it. She does it just fine for other teachers. What she has trouble with is finding the MOTIVATION to do it. 

In my experience with three daughters, age 9 is where things start to get...exciting. 🙂 It sounds to me like you have a decent plan. And it may turn out that a little time in school makes her get serious about home education. Or not, but it will be fine either way.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, GoodGrief3 said:

In my experience with three daughters, age 9 is where things start to get...exciting. 🙂 It sounds to me like you have a decent plan. And it may turn out that a little time in school makes her get serious about home education. Or not, but it will be fine either way.

Or maybe a bit of time being unschooled, with the understanding that school is around the corner. I really don't know... all I know is that what we have is unsustainable and that I'm done trying to solve the problem. 

However, she is the kind of kid who may very well choose NOW to solve the problem, lol. Because, as I said, she's a clone of my DH, and my DH needs to fall flat on his face before he decides something is not working... but at THAT point, he devotes his not inconsiderable energy and intelligence and intuition to it 😛 . 

[Not_a_Number]

30 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I may or may not have yelled at one of my kids, who was dragging their feet, "Do you WANT me to put you in public school so you can get Covid?!?!?!". Not my finest moment, but it did work, lol. 

Man, I wish this was the kind of thing that would work over here, lol. If I said this, it would UPSET my kids without improving what they were doing in the LEAST 😛 . 

[Condessa]

19 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Noooo. Don't tell me about how that's not a picnic either, lol. 

I've had DD9 in kindergarten before, and it was... fine. She didn't like it much and she wasn't challenged at all, and that's why we pulled her out. But she's been giving me ridiculous amounts of attitude for more than a year now, and things have been really tense as a result (and I've definitely yelled her much more than I'm comfortable with), and I kind of want this to be someone else's problem now. I'm tired. 

Another vote for "it's the age".  My girls, their friends, and my nieces all went through a very difficult phase around that age.  My dd10 seems to be finally coming out of it (knock on wood!).  It's like we get a little preview of teenage drama, then a few years' respite before it's back in force.

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Jenny in Florida said:

I kept an assortment of mementos scattered around my home office for the first few years after we were done. I found it comforting to have them there. I did finally pack away most of it when we made the most recent move. It just felt like time.

I will say that I think everyone thought I was joking when I said I felt like I deserved a party as much as my son did when he graduated. But I wasn't entirely kidding. I do not like being the center of attention, and I'm really bad about accepting praise or recognition gracefully, but I really did feel like I needed and deserved some kind of acknowledgment of the fact that it was a big transition for me, too. 

If I had worked at almost any other paid-type job for as long as I had homeschooled, there would have been a farewell party when I left. I know nobody really gets a gold watch anymore, but, heck, even when I left the bookstore I managed for a couple of years, everyone chipped in for a nice engraved pen. 

Instead, when homeschooling was over, I got unceremoniously dumped out into the outside world with no more than a kind of grudging goodbye hug when we finished moving my son into his dorm. 

To be clear, I know my children don't owe me a darned thing. As someone else said, I chose to have them, and I do not believe they have any obligation to express everlasting gratitude to me simply because I did the best I could in terms of raising and educating them. I owed them that.

But, geez, having anyone in the world notice that the end of it was a big deal for me would have been nice.

I was literally thinking this last night. Any other role, there would have been a card, at least! I didn't get to go to my actual graduation either, because DD was in hospital.

I think I am really responding to the lack of closure. Things just fizzled out. As you say, the answer isn't that the kids be grateful. I'm going to have to do my own recognition, thanks and closure (ain't that the homeschool way?!)

[Melissa Louise]

2 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

You aren’t wrong in that there are times when, “It’s never too late,” really just equates to muffled speaking with one’s head in the sand. *The rest is not to Regentrude, but to the forum as we tend to be a critical and skeptical lot. For good reason too, as it has served us well over the years being “look deeper” rather than happy shallow acceptance. But I might suggest that this same skepticism does not necessarily serve us well 50+ as it did in our 20s & 30s. 
 

I think I possess the credentials to infer it is not so in this scenario. In my post I did say some of us (namely me) do not have another 25 years. Hell, it’s doubtful I have five. But I’m going to say this because some of you don’t understand yet. 
 

Do you know how Melissa asked if 2003 Quill would have listened to 2021 Quill? And we all silently nodded. Why? Because at 25 we “knew what we knew” and armed with that limited knowledge, marched forth, being certain in our convictions and not being turned aside. 
 

This. Is. That. 
 

Will the 75 year old woman laugh at the jaded 50 year old version of herself who, in skepticism, didn’t think she was worth investing in any longer because the ROI didn’t seem plausible?

What if, in retrospect, it was a financial break even but you ended up in a place that brought you relationships and joy for 15 years?

The 25 year old versions of ourselves may have been shortsighted, but the 45-50 year old versions of ourselves are no better, having learned little in some cases, and believing the path we are currently on is the way. And the old women in the room smile behind their hands. 
 

I asked my grandfather, 90 at the time, why he bothered to get up early each morning, abstain from treats, and exercise. It seemed as though he was in a time he could just let his life guidelines relax a bit to enjoy some short sighted fun. He said they would prevent him from moving, doing, living his best life. 
 

If you hear, in my previous posted, gilded optimism, I’m grateful. Perhaps I’ve retained some after all. I am the same woman who has carefully weighed choosing medical suicide because of the future that seems certain. My legs are barely of use. I’ve lost 65% of my strength in arms. My neck and back are gone by half and my voice is going. It appears, surface deep, pointless to continue homeschooling and, obviously, it is taxing to a mind, body, and condition that is made all the worse by stress. Here, at the end of my life, I find women my age tend to be overly skeptical. They’ve lived what they feel to be the entire lives and feel they are nearing the end. I know, absolutely know, that another 25 years or more is an entire lifetime! After all, that is the span of time that passed from age 0-25, then again from 25-50.... Except now women are armed with knowledge, experience, and fortitude. No, it is not an easy thing to start something new. But it is a worthwhile thing, to persevere, to continue learning, to do brave things. 
 

I remember when Sarah Mackenzie began Read Aloud Revival and so many smirked... After all, what did she know? Young and wide eyed, I think her oldest was in fifth grade, though I do not remember clearly. I was also a bit skeptical but I found myself in love with her podcast and for good reason! I was growing weary in this season and her wholehearted enthusiasm reminded me I had more work to do and that it could be a joy! I needed that youthful positivity to snap me out of my wearied acceptance of, “This is my lot.” Thank God for the optimists... not the blind Polly Anna’s, but those who come alongside to encourage the “next thing.” Life is not what you make of it. There are times when you are dealt a mighty blow, things you have no power to control or quell... Obviously I know that. But to accept defeat when it is “merely” imminent rather fight the good fight? What a shame and a loss. No, I am no Pollyanna but perhaps I have insight some have not yet reached?

I think this is a good way for me to look at it. What advice would 75yr old me have for 50 yr old me? Thank you. 

Funnily enough I was also thinking last night that things could be much worse had I wished to resume a dance career 🙂 These knees have definitely closed that path! 

I spoke yesterday to a family friend who teaches Masters level writing to explore that a little more. And looked at a manuscript mentorship program. 

[Condessa]

I'm still in the thick of things, now, so we'll see how I feel about having homeschooled the kids down the road, but I can't imagine regretting homeschooling their earlier years.  We had so much fun together.  But then, I never intended to be a working mom.  I married a sports reporter, but upon examining what kind of family life we wanted, we made changes and planned ahead so that I could be a stay-at-home-mom.  I supported us through dh's time in law school so that he could have a career that would support a large family on one income.  Motherhood is my career, and homeschooling has just been an extension of that.

I do wonder about now, though.  I am so tired.  We don't have time for most of the fun parts of homeschooling anymore.  The creative parts that fill me up, along with my personal side-projects and hobbies, are beyond my capacity.  It's medical care, provide for everyone's physical and emotional needs, reach academic goals.  There's not time or energy for anything else.  If I took academics off my plate, maybe there would be a little time and energy to refill sometimes.  I have been running on empty for so long, and somehow keep finding more and more to give when I think I have nothing left. 

On the other hand, ds7 would be constantly in and out of school if he were attending, and unable to adjust his daily workload like we do at home to how well he is feeling from day to day.  He would be at greater risk with his weakened immune system.  And if we sent the others and not him, they would still be bringing germs home, and he would be so lonely.  And they would be basically learning nothing.  The scope and sequence of the schools they would attend shows they have already covered almost everything in their grade levels.  The schools do not offer their levels of math at any grade level.  I keep coming back to the conclusion that academically and medically, this less-fun homeschooling we are doing now is still definitely best for them.  They are lonely, though, particularly the girls.  I have managed a few social things, but we are not getting out to the extracurriculars and social activities that we used to do.  There is only so much I can fit in around medical appointments.  We may send dd12 to school next year, or the year after, though.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by Condessa

[fairfarmhand]

25 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I was literally thinking this last night. Any other role, there would have been a card, at least! I didn't get to go to my actual graduation either, because DD was in hospital.

I think I am really responding to the lack of closure. Things just fizzled out. As you say, the answer isn't that the kids be grateful. I'm going to have to do my own recognition, thanks and closure (ain't that the homeschool way?!)

This has spurred me to thinking about throwing a mom's party for mothers each year to applaud their work. I'll give special recognition to the moms who's final child is leaving homeschooling for the last time.

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think I'd have had an easier time with your older boy, because he pushed himself. DD9 doesn't push herself, either. I've tried experiments where I let her work mostly on her own, and it makes her sulky and sad. 

It's also definitely the case that she CAN do it. She's had days where she does it. She does it just fine for other teachers. What she has trouble with is finding the MOTIVATION to do it. 

Ah, so like my younger boy who lacks motivation, and has his entire life. When he was 2, we would go to a friend's house and he would sit next to me for 2 hours doing *nothing*. It is in his personality. I have worked for 15 years now to get that motivation up to 4 hours per day for school work. That is all he is willing to do. That is all he can do. I have come to believe that he simply priortizes his life goals differently than me. For him, academics is a piece of his life, but not a big one, and I have worked hard to balance my slow and steady effort to get him to be more motivated with my desired to respect and honor his life choices. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by lewelma

[BlsdMama]

46 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I think this is a good way for me to look at it. What advice would 75yr old me have for 50 yr old me? Thank you. 

Funnily enough I was also thinking last night that things could be much worse had I wished to resume a dance career 🙂 These knees have definitely closed that path! 

I spoke yesterday to a family friend who teaches Masters level writing to explore that a little more. And looked at a manuscript mentorship program. 

I love this. ♥️ 

[BlsdMama]

25 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

This has spurred me to thinking about throwing a mom's party for mothers each year to applaud their work. I'll give special recognition to the moms who's final child is leaving homeschooling for the last time.

Yes! Each year at our homeschool graduation, which is really quite grand, they call the names odd the moms graduating their last child and tell a bit about their homeschooling career as a tribute. I don’t know who thought of it, but I love that those moms get some recognition of their “graduation “ and achievements as well. 

[HS Mom in NC]

As to motivation, if you're not already familiar with the basics of how differently motivated people can be, especially if you're a highly self-motivated person (those types are usually the least likely to pick up on differences in people on their own through lived experiences with others) you really should read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Four-Tendencies-Indispensable-Personality-Profiles-ebook/dp/B01MU23P0N/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=four+tendencies&qid=1632344855&sr=8-1

[Not_a_Number]

39 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Ah, so like my younger boy who lacks motivation, and has his entire life. When he was 2, we would go to a friend's house and he would sit next to me for 2 hours doing *nothing*. It is in his personality. I have worked for 15 years now to get that motivation up to 4 hours per day for school work. That is all he is willing to do. That is all he can do. I have come to believe that he simply priortizes his life goals differently than me. For him, academics is a piece of his life, but not a big one, and I have worked hard to balance my slow and steady effort to get him to be more motivated with my desired to respect and honor his life choices. 

Not exactly, either. She's actually quite academically motivated and very energetic. But she doesn't WORK on her own and never has, despite the fact that she really wants to LEARN things. 

We'll see what she does if we unschool this year. But she's not exactly like either of your kids... and not exactly like DH or myself, either, who were quite self-motivated. She NEEDS the help and WANTS the help and has a ton of trouble actually USING the help. It's a really hard combination. 

[katilac]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Forget a diploma, I want a trophy...or jewelry, lol. Or a vacation. 

We did go to Disney World so they could get their 'Mickey Mouse diploma'. I printed them up ahead of time and Mickey signed them, lol. My oldest wore the full cap and gown, we got some fun pictures. 

It was officially their senior trip, but I was happy to count it as mine as well! 

[Clarita]

2 hours ago, GoodGrief3 said:

I did the part time thing for a few years. It was the worst of all worlds for me. Still needed to keep up all professional requirements of a full time worker, did not have the same connection to co-workers. Kids were not in day care enough to feel entirely comfortable there, and the cost was higher because of part time status. They seemed to be there just enough to get whatever illness was going around, and the employer was less understanding about the part-timer calling in sick. Spent the first four hours of the day working to pay for the child care, and the rest bumped us up a tax bracket, so no real financial advantage at that time (some-20 odd years ago, tax laws may be different now)

I could see this happening for me as well. I guess it's more of grass could be greener on the other side. Financially speaking there wouldn't be any real financial advantage for our family either. There would be some extra money coming in (maybe?). The only benefit is that if anything should happen to my husband or our relationship, I'd be able to financially take care of the children and I solo. Emotionally I'd probably be a wreck anyways so ...  

[lewelma]

39 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Not exactly, either. She's actually quite academically motivated and very energetic. But she doesn't WORK on her own and never has, despite the fact that she really wants to LEARN things. 

We'll see what she does if we unschool this year. But she's not exactly like either of your kids... and not exactly like DH or myself, either, who were quite self-motivated. She NEEDS the help and WANTS the help and has a ton of trouble actually USING the help. It's a really hard combination. 

Well, I know you don't like comparisons. But this is exactly like my younger son. He will not work alone, but also struggles to work with me.  He very much wants to learn. You described him to a T, he "NEEDS the help and WANTS the help and has a ton of trouble actually USING the help." And you are right that it is a very difficult situation, and it is one that I have faced Every. Single. Day. for a decade. The difference is that I never had a back up plan of sending him to school because 2E and school don't go together AT ALL, so I had to find a way through. In the end my choice was to preserve our relationship, because I thought I could influence him more if we were close. And this has definitely been true.  

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Well, I know you don't like comparisons. But this is exactly like my younger son. He will not work alone, but also struggles to work with me.  He very much wants to learn. You described him to a T, he "NEEDS the help and WANTS the help and has a ton of trouble actually USING the help." And you are right that it is a very difficult situation, and it is one that I have faced Every. Single. Day. for a decade. The difference is that I never had a back up plan of sending him to school because 2E and school don't go together AT ALL, so I had to find a way through. In the end my choice was to preserve our relationship, because I thought I could influence him more if we were close. And this has definitely been true.  

It's just that she's very energetic. She's NOT the kind of kid who sits there and does nothing. She's constantly exploring, doing projects, and otherwise being an Energizer Bunny. DD5 is my languid child, not DD9. 

But yes, otherwise it sounds similar, except that school wouldn't be a bad option for her necessarily. And also, I think her motivational issues are less... organic, maybe? Like, they stem from the fact that she's recalcitrant and stubborn and has trouble working with others and less from her inability to self-regulate or motivate herself in general. 

At this point, I'm also going to probably work on the relationship more than anything -- our last year hasn't been good for it. She'll probably be something unschooled for this year, and we'll do the application cycle for this fall. Either she'll get her act together or she won't, but I'm not making that my responsibility anymore. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Well, I know you don't like comparisons. But this is exactly like my younger son. He will not work alone, but also struggles to work with me.  He very much wants to learn. You described him to a T, he "NEEDS the help and WANTS the help and has a ton of trouble actually USING the help." And you are right that it is a very difficult situation, and it is one that I have faced Every. Single. Day. for a decade. The difference is that I never had a back up plan of sending him to school because 2E and school don't go together AT ALL, so I had to find a way through. In the end my choice was to preserve our relationship, because I thought I could influence him more if we were close. And this has definitely been true.  

And it's not that I mind the comparisons! I just want them to be precise, lol. 

[BlsdMama]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

As to motivation, if you're not already familiar with the basics of how differently motivated people can be, especially if you're a highly self-motivated person (those types are usually the least likely to pick up on differences in people on their own through lived experiences with others) you really should read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Four-Tendencies-Indispensable-Personality-Profiles-ebook/dp/B01MU23P0N/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=four+tendencies&qid=1632344855&sr=8-1

Thank you. I have a child who befuddles me. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

As to motivation, if you're not already familiar with the basics of how differently motivated people can be, especially if you're a highly self-motivated person (those types are usually the least likely to pick up on differences in people on their own through lived experiences with others) you really should read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Four-Tendencies-Indispensable-Personality-Profiles-ebook/dp/B01MU23P0N/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=four+tendencies&qid=1632344855&sr=8-1

I'm pretty familiar with it, although I think people are much more complicated than that. 

I'm actually not super self-motivated. I'm obsessive, so I binge on the stuff I'm interested in... but I'm very uneven. My PhD advisor called me "high mean, high variance," LOL, for anyone who knows some statistics, and that's about right. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Not exactly, either. She's actually quite academically motivated and very energetic. But she doesn't WORK on her own and never has, despite the fact that she really wants to LEARN things. 

We'll see what she does if we unschool this year. But she's not exactly like either of your kids... and not exactly like DH or myself, either, who were quite self-motivated. She NEEDS the help and WANTS the help and has a ton of trouble actually USING the help. It's a really hard combination. 

Any possibility of ADHD? Or just easily frustrated by things not going like she wants?

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Any possibility of ADHD? Or just easily frustrated by things not going like she wants?

I don't think so -- just personality, I think. But she has no executive functioning issues at all -- she has better EF skills than either me or DH. And none of her other teachers have ever said anything. 

She's not exactly easily frustrated, actually -- she just can't be bothered. The problem is that I'm not a plausible authority. She does better with outside teachers, really, except that if we're going to do outside teachers, I'd probably rather send her to a good school. 

[Not_a_Number]

I'm curious to see what happens if we unschool with the understanding that if she goofs around, she's CERTAINLY going to school. It's possible she needs the kick in the rear. 

[Drama Llama]

. . . 

Edited October 26, 2021 by BaseballandHockey

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

Honestly, if you're considering school as an option, I think setting it up as a punishment is setting her up for failure.  You want her to go to school eagerly, and that's a pretty sure way to prevent that.

I also don't think that it's unschooling if there's a threat hanging over her head about what happens if she does it "wrong".  A major belief behind unschooling is that if you remove the external pressure, kids find their own motivation.  I'm not sure if that's true.  It was for one of my sort of unschooled kids. The other was pretty motivated to start.  But that's a sample size of 2.  But if I was going to try unschooling, I'd try it the way it is supposed to work in theory, which doesn't include threats of punishment for "goofing off".  It includes celebrating "goofing off" as one of the ways that kids explore and find out what they're motivated by. 

I don't know if it's a "punishment," and I'm not planning to talk about it like that, but she knows she's going to go to school if she can't figure out how to work with me. Frankly, I've been telling her that she should just chill and enjoy her time playing with me and not worry about going to school, but she doesn't seem to feel like that, because she WANTS to be homeschooled. 

She's been in school. She spent half a year telling me how much she disliked it back in kindergarten. I don't actually expect her to like school, because she's not a great fit for school for reasons of her personality. (Plus, it's just genetics: both DH and I thoroughly disliked school.) 

So, I don't know if I particularly care if she goes to school eagerly, because I would be really surprised if she actually stays eager. But I can't help that. 

[TravelingChris]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:43 PM, TexasProud said:

Yes. I think parents are the key ingredients. Really doesn’t matter what you choose.  Yeah. I doubt mine will homeschool.  They don’t exactly blame me but yeah, think having a normal experience would have beem better.  And yeah, it took a huge toll on me. But I bought into all of the lies about homeschooling being superior. 

Homeschooling was superior.  My family including all my children love learning.  But I was a relaxed homeschooler who saw learning opportunities all over the place.  Also, I did not try and shield my children from stuff.   Also, they always were around other kids- we did co-ops, classes, etc. 

[SoCal_Bear]

7 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

The tricky thing is that she would far prefer to be homeschooled. Like, a lot. 

You're right that this isn't healthy. I'm not doing whatever this is anymore. I'm firmly done with it. 

Have you considered outsourcing subjects? Honestly, it sounds like she is tweening. It has been an hairy 3 years for us. It helped to outsource with high quality classes because of the external motivation. 

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by calbear

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, calbear said:

Have you considered outsourcing subjects? Honestly, it sounds like she is tweening. It has been an hairy 3 years for us. It helped to outsource with high quality classes because of the external motivation. 

 

We've thought about it. I don't know if I prefer that to sending her to school, although I think DH does. 

[madteaparty]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

It's just that she's very energetic. She's NOT the kind of kid who sits there and does nothing. She's constantly exploring, doing projects, and otherwise being an Energizer Bunny. DD5 is my languid child, not DD9. 

But yes, otherwise it sounds similar, except that school wouldn't be a bad option for her necessarily. And also, I think her motivational issues are less... organic, maybe? Like, they stem from the fact that she's recalcitrant and stubborn and has trouble working with others and less from her inability to self-regulate or motivate herself in general. 

At this point, I'm also going to probably work on the relationship more than anything -- our last year hasn't been good for it. She'll probably be something unschooled for this year, and we'll do the application cycle for this fall. Either she'll get her act together or she won't, but I'm not making that my responsibility anymore. 

Just look when you have to take the tests, timing was earlier than I thought. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, madteaparty said:

Just look when you have to take the tests, timing was earlier than I thought. 

Thank you! 

[Not_a_Number]

And continuing my ridiculous saga, DD9 spent all morning working, putting together some math and Russian. 

I told her I'd look at night if she wanted me to. 

I just checked what she left for me. It's all written out carefully and everything is correct. It's basically perfect. It's great work. 

She can DO all this. She can. She doesn't even need help. It's all just attitude, which makes it so frustrating. 

We'll see where we go from here. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm curious to see what happens if we unschool with the understanding that if she goofs around, she's CERTAINLY going to school. It's possible she needs the kick in the rear. 

A 9yo is going to goof around if given freedom.

If you still want to make homeschooling work, but want a reset, maybe take a bit of time off and then start schooling again.  You may have already done this, but I'd sit and discuss with her what motivates and demotivates her, and what benchmarks are reasonable to expect, however they are met.

If you are pretty sure homeschooling is over, then unschooling may be appropriate for this school year, but without any understandings about goofing off and kicks in the rear.  Maybe shift discipline and structure to areas related to personal organization, which can help make public school successful when she goes.

[SoCal_Bear]

Why don't you give some short term low cost options a go? Like at Athena's. I will be honest Athena's and OG3 worked for us for several years. Unfortunately it doesn't anymore because of the ungraded aspect of it.

Honestly, Covid really amplified a lot negative behavior. Like what ever was negative became exponentially worse. Now that my son was vax'd early this year and started doing some masked in-person activities again, it has helped a lot as well. 

For us, the issue really came down to wanting to have more independence and control. I can teach a lot of what I had outsourced at that time and even now, but he responded completely differently to someone else's expectations and feedback EVEN THOUGH I gave the exact same feedback. 

Hang in there...it's not unusual...but it does feel quite awful while in the midst of all the negativity.

[SoCal_Bear]

It just occurred to me to ask you how much input you give her in determining what you will study. For my son, it helped a lot starting at 7 to be rather child-led...giving him more choices/ownership in what he was going to study. Some things were non-negotiable like Chinese and writing because if given a choice that would never happen. 

 

[SoCal_Bear]

I just checked Athena's still has open enrollment. 

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, SKL said:

A 9yo is going to goof around if given freedom.

So then she can goof around and go to school next year. That's fine by me. She's certainly advanced enough. 

 

11 minutes ago, SKL said:

If you still want to make homeschooling work, but want a reset, maybe take a bit of time off and then start schooling again.  You may have already done this, but I'd sit and discuss with her what motivates and demotivates her, and what benchmarks are reasonable to expect, however they are met.

I can sit down and discuss what motivates and demotivates her until the cows come home, and it doesn't do a bit of good. We've done it a TON this year. We'd sit down, create a plan, figure out what was going to work, and then she'd sabotage it. Not intentionally, obviously. But she just could never hold up her end of the bargain, however light it was. 

As I said, I've cut down the work to the minimum possible amount, and she was not meeting expectations. I don't know why. I don't think she knows why, either. She's not a particularly self-aware kid. 

 

11 minutes ago, SKL said:

If you are pretty sure homeschooling is over, then unschooling may be appropriate for this school year, but without any understandings about goofing off and kicks in the rear.  Maybe shift discipline and structure to areas related to personal organization, which can help make public school successful when she goes.

I really can't be certain about what's going to happen without knowing what she does with the freedom. Obviously, if she goofs off for the whole year, she'll go to school. I'm pretty resigned to that, so I'm not going hound her about it. But I'm not going to tell her that she'll definitely go to school even if she decides to work hard for the next 3 weeks to prove that she can, am I? 

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, calbear said:

It just occurred to me to ask you how much input you give her in determining what you will study. For my son, it helped a lot starting at 7 to be rather child-led...giving him more choices/ownership in what he was going to study. Some things were non-negotiable like Chinese and writing because if given a choice that would never happen. 

All of it, lol. She has complete input. All we do is math and Russian, and every day in the evening, she picks what kinds of questions she does for those the next day. It hasn't helped the quality of her work in the least.  

We also do a bit of Russian conversation, which is on a topic of her choosing. 

 

15 minutes ago, calbear said:

Why don't you give some short term low cost options a go? Like at Athena's. I will be honest Athena's and OG3 worked for us for several years. Unfortunately it doesn't anymore because of the ungraded aspect of it.

We'll have some local co-op classes and activities, so she won't be totally at loose ends 🙂. But I'd rather not have something I'm supposed to be monitoring, and online classes always turn out to be like that. 

I'm OK if she goofs off and goes to school. Honestly. I know I don't want to fight with her anymore, and the rest is up to her, and if she decides she's fine with going to school and having fun this year, then she can have some fun this year and go to school! 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

We had another conversation with DD9 about school. We made it clear it's not a punishment and that we think she'd enjoy it. I'm happy to say that all year long, but the problem is that I'm not sure that'll convince her. 

This is a kid who very consistently asked to be pulled out of school for half of her kindergarten year. She didn't hate it. She enjoyed recess and having her friends around. But she really disliked being bored and tired and having less time to build her projects, and she's aware that she'll again be bored and tired and have less time to build her projects. 

So... I'm not planning to tell her that school is a punishment. But I don't know that I can change how she feels. I suppose I could make homeschooling such ridiculous drudgery that she wants to go to school, but otherwise, I don't see that I can change her opinion or her personality 😛 . 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Alte Veste Academy]

10 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

You aren’t wrong in that there are times when, “It’s never too late,” really just equates to muffled speaking with one’s head in the sand. *The rest is not to Regentrude, but to the forum as we tend to be a critical and skeptical lot. For good reason too, as it has served us well over the years being “look deeper” rather than happy shallow acceptance. But I might suggest that this same skepticism does not necessarily serve us well 50+ as it did in our 20s & 30s. 
 

I think I possess the credentials to infer it is not so in this scenario. In my post I did say some of us (namely me) do not have another 25 years. Hell, it’s doubtful I have five. But I’m going to say this because some of you don’t understand yet. 
 

Do you know how Melissa asked if 2003 Quill would have listened to 2021 Quill? And we all silently nodded. Why? Because at 25 we “knew what we knew” and armed with that limited knowledge, marched forth, being certain in our convictions and not being turned aside. 
 

This. Is. That. 
 

Will the 75 year old woman laugh at the jaded 50 year old version of herself who, in skepticism, didn’t think she was worth investing in any longer because the ROI didn’t seem plausible?

What if, in retrospect, it was a financial break even but you ended up in a place that brought you relationships and joy for 15 years?

The 25 year old versions of ourselves may have been shortsighted, but the 45-50 year old versions of ourselves are no better, having learned little in some cases, and believing the path we are currently on is the way. And the old women in the room smile behind their hands. 
 

I asked my grandfather, 90 at the time, why he bothered to get up early each morning, abstain from treats, and exercise. It seemed as though he was in a time he could just let his life guidelines relax a bit to enjoy some short sighted fun. He said they would prevent him from moving, doing, living his best life. 
 

If you hear, in my previous posted, gilded optimism, I’m grateful. Perhaps I’ve retained some after all. I am the same woman who has carefully weighed choosing medical suicide because of the future that seems certain. My legs are barely of use. I’ve lost 65% of my strength in arms. My neck and back are gone by half and my voice is going. It appears, surface deep, pointless to continue homeschooling and, obviously, it is taxing to a mind, body, and condition that is made all the worse by stress. Here, at the end of my life, I find women my age tend to be overly skeptical. They’ve lived what they feel to be the entire lives and feel they are nearing the end. I know, absolutely know, that another 25 years or more is an entire lifetime! After all, that is the span of time that passed from age 0-25, then again from 25-50.... Except now women are armed with knowledge, experience, and fortitude. No, it is not an easy thing to start something new. But it is a worthwhile thing, to persevere, to continue learning, to do brave things. 
 

I remember when Sarah Mackenzie began Read Aloud Revival and so many smirked... After all, what did she know? Young and wide eyed, I think her oldest was in fifth grade, though I do not remember clearly. I was also a bit skeptical but I found myself in love with her podcast and for good reason! I was growing weary in this season and her wholehearted enthusiasm reminded me I had more work to do and that it could be a joy! I needed that youthful positivity to snap me out of my wearied acceptance of, “This is my lot.” Thank God for the optimists... not the blind Polly Anna’s, but those who come alongside to encourage the “next thing.” Life is not what you make of it. There are times when you are dealt a mighty blow, things you have no power to control or quell... Obviously I know that. But to accept defeat when it is “merely” imminent rather fight the good fight? What a shame and a loss. No, I am no Pollyanna but perhaps I have insight some have not yet reached?

Thank you so very much for this post, BlsdMama. It is thought-provoking, inspiring, and humbling. And thanks, Stella, for starting this thread.

I graduated my DS18 last year. I have DD16 home after trying PS for 9th and 10th grades (and hating it). And I've got DS15 at the beginning of high school. I'm tired. I've been tired for the past few years. I've been following this thread from the beginning, almost posted half a dozen times, but never figured out quite how to describe my complicated feelings. Ultimately, I don't regret homeschooling because the what if I hadn't is too big for me, with my particular kids. Sometimes I (jokingly mostly, to myself) wish I'd never heard of it. LOL

I do regret not differentiating more from my role as a homeschool mom. I regret not volunteering as a means of maintaining skills and contacts. But then, ironically, I don't think I want to work in my field anymore anyway, so... Now I'm 49 (and a half, lol), and I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life. But there is a weird sense of urgency I'm getting now with my youngest in high school, a sense that I need to figure it out to be ready to go. We're lucky not to need my income, and DH will be supportive of whatever I do, but I feel adrift, without conviction in any direction. I had big dreams as a student/teen/young woman that were replaced by my very strong sense of the rightness of being home with my children, which turned into a very strong sense of the rightness of educating my children. Now I have some big dreams of things I could do, and they are smaller than my old big dreams but I don't feel enthusiastic about them, which is not me. I've got some things to figure out.

[popmom]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm curious to see what happens if we unschool with the understanding that if she goofs around, she's CERTAINLY going to school. It's possible she needs the kick in the rear. 

I was going to suggest this, but I was scared due to some past threads! The problem is that she really will need a detox period. This what I did with my youngest and MAN—I have zero regrets. But I’m hard core. We are very unconventional. Most people would think I was crazy if they knew how hands off I am. And certainly you know your child—-well, maybe you don’t know your child like you think you do—idk. I just say that it didn’t take more than 6 months for me to know she was going to thrive and grow and learn and create so much more than I could have ever imagined. I mean—this is a very individual thing. It requires a “lens change” (not sure if you are familiar w Dr Ross Greene). 

I’ll shut up now. I promised myself I’d be in bed by midnight!! But if you want to hear more about our unschooling journey, hit me up. 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, popmom said:

I was going to suggest this, but I was scared due to some past threads! The problem is that she really will need a detox period. This what I did with my youngest and MAN—I have zero regrets. But I’m hard core. We are very unconventional. Most people would think I was crazy if they knew how hands off I am. And certainly you know your child—-well, maybe you don’t know your child like you think you do—idk. I just say that it didn’t take more than 6 months for me to know she was going to thrive and grow and learn and create so much more than I could have ever imagined. I mean—this is a very individual thing. It requires a “lens change” (not sure if you are familiar w Dr Ross Greene). 

I’ll shut up now. I promised myself I’d be in bed by midnight!! But if you want to hear more about our unschooling journey, hit me up. 

We're very child-led as is. Like, on the one hand, I've always structured her day, but as I posted upthread, our latest iteration of her work was her telling me what she wants to work on every single day anyway. And we cut things down to the subjects she felt like doing. We were doing math and Russian because those are consistently her favorite subjects. 

I am generally a stickler for math, but she's so advanced that I'm not feeling all that worried about it anyway. Plus she wants to do well on the AMC 8 herself... 

(And yes, I'm familiar with him, although so far his stuff hasn't worked perfectly over here. I did find it thought-provoking, though.) 

She's actually really sad about the possibility of school precisely because we're so child-led. She keeps talking about how at home, she learns exactly the stuff she wants to learn, and that she doesn't want to forget it, and that probably no one will teach her any math she doesn't know in school for years and years... and I can't lie to her, those are probably true 😕 . I doubt anyone's going to teach her math past high school geometry any time soon at school, and that's where she would like to be. 

When I said she did perfect work today, I mean that we printed out some review problems from Chapter 5 of AoPS Intro to Algebra and she did a whole bunch of problems perfectly. She didn't do grade 4 math 😛 . 

Edited September 23, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

I do regret not differentiating more from my role as a homeschool mom. I regret not volunteering as a means of maintaining skills and contacts. But then, ironically, I don't think I want to work in my field anymore anyway, so... Now I'm 49 (and a half, lol), and I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life. But there is a weird sense of urgency I'm getting now with my youngest in high school, a sense that I need to figure it out to be ready to go. We're lucky not to need my income, and DH will be supportive of whatever I do, but I feel adrift, without conviction in any direction. I had big dreams as a student/teen/young woman that were replaced by my very strong sense of the rightness of being home with my children, which turned into a very strong sense of the rightness of educating my children. Now I have some big dreams of things I could do, and they are smaller than my old big dreams but I don't feel enthusiastic about them, which is not me. I've got some things to figure out.

Well, I am 48.75 years old and my teens are in 11th and 12th. I didn’t have any dreams as a young adult and I’ll probably go back to my field because I was in tech and that sector keeps evolving so I don’t get bored as fast. 
 

Being an extrovert in a family of introverts, I am going “partying” when DS15 goes to college. When they were in strollers, I could just bring them everywhere and get my social time. 
 

You know how people talk about deschooling when you pull kids out of brick and mortar schools to homeschool. Maybe you just need a transition stage when your youngest goes to college, to find your bearings again. 

[Melissa Louise]

1 hour ago, Alte Veste Academy said:

Thank you so very much for this post, BlsdMama. It is thought-provoking, inspiring, and humbling. And thanks, Stella, for starting this thread.

I graduated my DS18 last year. I have DD16 home after trying PS for 9th and 10th grades (and hating it). And I've got DS15 at the beginning of high school. I'm tired. I've been tired for the past few years. I've been following this thread from the beginning, almost posted half a dozen times, but never figured out quite how to describe my complicated feelings. Ultimately, I don't regret homeschooling because the what if I hadn't is too big for me, with my particular kids. Sometimes I (jokingly mostly, to myself) wish I'd never heard of it. LOL

I do regret not differentiating more from my role as a homeschool mom. I regret not volunteering as a means of maintaining skills and contacts. But then, ironically, I don't think I want to work in my field anymore anyway, so... Now I'm 49 (and a half, lol), and I don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life. But there is a weird sense of urgency I'm getting now with my youngest in high school, a sense that I need to figure it out to be ready to go. We're lucky not to need my income, and DH will be supportive of whatever I do, but I feel adrift, without conviction in any direction. I had big dreams as a student/teen/young woman that were replaced by my very strong sense of the rightness of being home with my children, which turned into a very strong sense of the rightness of educating my children. Now I have some big dreams of things I could do, and they are smaller than my old big dreams but I don't feel enthusiastic about them, which is not me. I've got some things to figure out.

I definitely relate to that sense of rightness, and then replacing it with....things that don't necessarily have that strong sense of yes!!

Feeling adrift without conviction is the right way to put it. 

 

[popmom]

13 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I had a week or so where I only graded my son's math on his attitude and willingness. 

Y’all give grades??? 😉
Don’t worry. I’m really going to bed now.

Edited September 23, 2021 by popmom

[TexasProud]

11 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Homeschooling was superior.  My family including all my children love learning.  But I was a relaxed homeschooler who saw learning opportunities all over the place.  Also, I did not try and shield my children from stuff.   Also, they always were around other kids- we did co-ops, classes, etc. 

Yes, I did as well. We traveled all of the United States and over to Europe.  We took the RV and had a Civil War trip, did a unit on coral when going to the sea, did the junior park ranger stuff at every NP, etc. My middle one got a degree in history because we spent more time in living history and I didn't use textbooks.  My children were not shielded. Oldest saw the condom truck in Ethiopia and heard stories of female circumcision. They have each served in poor areas on Honduras over 4 times ( my daughter more than 10 ). Daughter served in Ukraine, sons in Ecuador.  Yes, I did co-op classes.  But everyone in our church did public school. There was a "homeschooling" church in our town, but too legalistic for my taste. So we did homeschooling stuff in the other town.  All of them had friend clicks because they went to the same churches and again, we were not quite as fundamentalist as they were.  Funny though, oldest who went to public school through 4th grade is the least social and youngest who never set foot in a public school is most social. She is into musical theater, so we were at the community theater all the time, particularly for the last 3 years. She also played volleyball at a local Christian school. 

All thrived academically in college, younger two did socially as well. Middle one made friends for the first time ever. He is still visiting them now. As I said, we just didn't fit. They didn't have the same values as either the public school or the homeschoolers. They were appalled at the academics of the public school when the kids would moan in youth group about having to read 40 pages of a book in a week... They read 300 pages or more in a variety of books. 

But yeah, none of them are going to homeschool.

Edited September 23, 2021 by TexasProud

[SKL]

8 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I really can't be certain about what's going to happen without knowing what she does with the freedom. Obviously, if she goofs off for the whole year, she'll go to school. I'm pretty resigned to that, so I'm not going hound her about it. But I'm not going to tell her that she'll definitely go to school even if she decides to work hard for the next 3 weeks to prove that she can, am I? 

Honestly, she's 9yo and this is a parent's decision.  I think that letting her feel like it's her decision is probably pretty stressful for her.  And no, managing school life in 3-week bursts will never work.

I don't know your daughter obviously, but based on what I've read, I think I'd tell her you'll be observing how things go through fall and winter and then you will make a decision in March/April, based on what seems best for her development and your family.  And try to stick to that no matter how much she wows or annoys you on a day to day basis.

[SKL]

8 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

So... I'm not planning to tell her that school is a punishment. But I don't know that I can change how she feels. I suppose I could make homeschooling such ridiculous drudgery that she wants to go to school, but otherwise, I don't see that I can change her opinion or her personality 😛 . 

School isn't a punishment, but there are plenty of kids who don't love going.  As much as we want our kids to "love learning," it is not a deal killer if our kids don't love everything about going to school.  (You can love learning even while hating school.  Most of my family is proof of that.  :P)

In all likelihood, as a 10yo she will really benefit from the social aspects of b&m school.  But she won't know that until she experiences it.  Which is OK.