Am I the only one not overly worried about Covid19?

[SKL]

Oh and my kid thinks she may have broken our microwave.  So some of the cupboard and freezer food may need to be prepared a different way.  That will be annoying but not catastrophic.

[catz]

Grocery stores are not closed in Wuhan or Italy so I don't get the panic.  People are going to need to go out occassionally to get supplies and those trucks, etc will keep on running.  I bet some industries are loving this.  Purell for instance.  😂

My pantry is quite well stocked now.  I've been working on it the last few weeks.  What's going to kill me is having the college kid home.  That kid can put away some serious food!  

 

[KungFuPanda]

There is a small, evil part of me that wants to NOT stockpile so we're forced to eat our way through all of the random odds and ends in the pantry and freezer.  I usually try to pull this stunt when we get a big snow, but there were no snow days this year.  

I tend to do my shopping around 10 p.m. on a Wednesday evening and there are very few other shoppers in the store. I go after a Wednesday evening class.  No shelves were empty when I did this a few days ago.  I don't know how much of a difference a few days has made.  My freezer is small, so I can't really go overboard with the frozen stuff even if I wanted to.  I still manage to lose things in my small freezer (thus the need to eat through odds and ends) so I don't think I'm responsible enough to own a large one.

There is very little we HAVE to have.  We're stocked up on tea and coffee.  We're probably overly dependent upon fresh milk, but I can work around that if I have to.  I have a bit too much frozen fruit taking up freezer space, so I plan to force smoothies on people today.  I can use powdered milk in those.

[Mbelle]

I do wish more people would stay home when they are sick.   We are always careful about sickness.  When my kids were little I worked in a moms morning out and people would bring in sick kids all the time.  One lady had a stomach flu and she was so sick she had a barf bowl in her car so she could still drop off the kids.  The director sent her and the kids straight home.  I just could not believe it.

Oh I'm really on edge about money and it could turn to anger I guess.  I'm feeling more very serious about that particular isse than angry at the moment,. Having lost in the 08/09 depression I am very cognizant of what goes on when you don't have money or a job.  There will be no returning to that.

Well, I started ordering groceries a while ago after reading on the WTM.  I tried to order last night and there are no pick up times till Sunday!  I guess at least the economy is being stimulated in that regard.   

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

There's nothing wrong with doing this.

However, I will point out that the primary reason for the advice to have things on hand is so that if someone gets sick and needs to quarantine, they don't run out.  So, if you aren't sick *now*, then continuing on as normal is probably a better idea.  That way you aren't running out of your quarantine supplies at the same time you get sick.  

It kind of feels like quarantine has started.  Everything is canceled and we do have an older kid with muscular dystrophy to worry about.  Dh works from home anyway and I've cancelled my classes.  In theory, we're in a good position to be mostly quarantined with maybe a weekly late-night grocery trip. 

Looking at what I keep on hand, we could hole up for a few months without starving, but it wouldn't be what people necessarily WANT to eat.  Also, if I go down, dh is a much less competent cook.  I feel like we're uniquely set up to avoid the world for a while without too much discomfort, but now i'm thinking things like "do I need to wipe down every box and can that enters the house because somebody's hands touched it." 

[Paige]

I heard our local Walmart may have to suspend order pick ups because they are overwhelmed. I'd rather they go to order pick up only!

[Pawz4me]

I'm in NC. DS24 just went to our local Lowe's Foods. He said it was fairly normal other than they were lower than usual on TP and PT. He had no problem getting chicken, rice, almond milk and other staples.

[Kassia]

1 hour ago, Mbelle said:

I tried to order last night and there are no pick up times till Sunday!  I guess at least the economy is being stimulated in that regard.   

 

Same with our Walmart grocery pick up.  Usually there are openings all day but I couldn't get a time until Sunday. 

57 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I'm in NC. DS24 just went to our local Lowe's Foods. He said it was fairly normal other than they were lower than usual on TP and PT. He had no problem getting chicken, rice, almond milk and other staples.

 

I'm in Ohio and we just got back from the store.  It wasn't overly crowded.  Bread was pretty much out, chicken was out, milk was low.  No TP and PT or hand sanitizer.   I heard stores were crazy last night with lines 1-2 hours long, no carts, and empty shelves.  

[KungFuPanda]

My daughter reports that the Lidl in her college town is nearly empty and stocked.  I may shop down there.  Meanwhile, in Columbia:  

 

[madteaparty]

On 3/12/2020 at 10:59 AM, happysmileylady said:

It's interesting how it was pointed out earlier in the thread that people are free to not read threads/posts if the information is causing them anxiety or panic, and yet people deliberately share information in a thread about not being over concerned, specifically to try to make people more concerned.  

 

Right? Because the other 5 threads aren’t sufficient. Because we need a news aggregator right here in the WTM boards. And also because everyone is a pandemic expert. I’m at  a real danger of catching eyeroll disease. 😂😂 (humor. Also good for immunity). I particularly love everyone (including myself) who go to the store every day to stock up on one more item and then shake heads at all the crazies buying toilet paper . While they’re in the store themselves. Ah, good stuff.
eta that the reason I need to go to the store is that I press my own oranges and limes and such. And they, oranges in particular, don’t really keep . 

Edited March 14, 2020 by madteaparty

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, madteaparty said:

Right? Because the other 5 threads aren’t sufficient. Because we need a news aggregator right here in the WTM boards. And also because everyone is a pandemic expert. I’m at  a real danger of catching eyeroll disease. 😂😂 (humor. Also good for immunity). I particularly love everyone (including myself) who go to the store every day to stock up on one more item and then shake heads at all the crazies buying toilet paper . While they’re in the store themselves. Ah, good stuff.
eta that the reason I need to go to the store is that I press my own oranges and limes and such. And they, oranges in particular, don’t really keep . 

It’s probably because some of us are worried about the general lack of care

the not worried crowd have been on the other threads too:  if there’s some kind of rule that this thread is only for the not worried maybe that can be stated.  
 

I wouldn’t go and post stuff in the happiness thread because that’s a jerky act but I figured a thread title “am I the only one whose not worried?” Was open to people saying well actually I am and this is why.

[Pawz4me]

My brain has melted over the last few days, plus (like many of you) I've been super busy with real life while trying to keep up with what's going on. So I forget which thread I'm reading. If something's in my head and seems relevant to something recently posted I reply w/o taking the time to look at which thread I'm in. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

If it's giving you anxiety, you are certainly free to not read about other people not being worried.

It’s not giving me anxiety.  I’m strongly aware that lack of action at this point increases risk in two weeks time.  And that will impact on everyone not just people who don’t care.

And for that reason I’m leaving this here.  It’s not from the media or someone sensationalising things.  It’s from a doctor.  

 

[madteaparty]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It’s probably because some of us are worried about the general lack of care

the not worried crowd have been on the other threads too:  if there’s some kind of rule that this thread is only for the not worried maybe that can be stated.  
 

I wouldn’t go and post stuff in the happiness thread because that’s a jerky act but I figured a thread title “am I the only one whose not worried?” Was open to people saying well actually I am and this is why.

And you quoting me in every thread I participate will make me “care”.  Research certainly shows people react well to that. Continue with zeal, as you were.

Edited March 14, 2020 by madteaparty

[ktgrok]

19 hours ago, OKBud said:

I

I am sick to death (har) of people in my community not taking normal colds, flues, viruses...all of which circulate regularly due to local conditions... seriously. It's one thing to not be overly concerned about my immediate family, but I have ZERO faith that the majority of my neighbors will take appropriate precautions if covid hits here. Because they already don't. 

 

Amen. Y'all remember my thread about the neighbor that will send over one kid to knock on my door to play when they just got back from the doctor where her other kid was diagnosed with flu! Or same neighbor, sending kid over to play while neighbor and her husband and her other kid are all puking. And this is KNOWING I have a kid who gets brain inflammation when exposed to illness!

So yeah, don't trust them or any of the people that said, "hey, nothing wrong with that!" to self isolate or slow this down. 

Right now a mom in my old church moms' group (I'm still ont he facebook page) has a high fever and bad cough as does her child, and has not sought testing even though we have confirmed cases in the city that the church is in. My fear is she will get better, and then not knowing it could be COVID 19 will NOT isolate for 2 weeks. I mean, who would, if they think it was just a regular cold? So then spread it. That church has THOUSANDS of attendees. Ugh. 

18 hours ago, Mbelle said:

I do wish more people would stay home when they are sick.   We are always careful about sickness.  When my kids were little I worked in a moms morning out and people would bring in sick kids all the time.  One lady had a stomach flu and she was so sick she had a barf bowl in her car so she could still drop off the kids.  The director sent her and the kids straight home.  I just could not believe it.

Oh I'm really on edge about money and it could turn to anger I guess.  I'm feeling more very serious about that particular isse than angry at the moment,. Having lost in the 08/09 depression I am very cognizant of what goes on when you don't have money or a job.  There will be no returning to that.

 

The money worries me a LOT, like trouble sleeping due to worry about people that can't afford rent, can't afford water, etc. But i also am frustrated that people don't seem to comprehend that their kids would rather they go bankrupt than die. Money can come back, lives can't. So I'm super worried about the economy, but also keeping in mind that lives matter more than money. And that we NEED a better social safety net. 

17 hours ago, Paige said:

I heard our local Walmart may have to suspend order pick ups because they are overwhelmed. I'd rather they go to order pick up only!

I can confirm. I spend an hour thursday making my list and placing my order, feeling all proud that for the first time I remembered to do it thursday so i could pick up groceries friday. (normally I don't remember until friday and by then they often don't have pick up spots until monday). I arranged pick up for 3pm Friday, so that my oldest would be home from work to watch the kids, figuring I'd run a few errands and pick that up. Got an email at 11am that my order was canceled. No explanation, just cancelled. 

Thankfully the Schwann's guy came by yesterday afternoon so I was able to get some chicken breasts, icecream, and french fries and that got us through dinner. I'm about to run out to Aldi now as I heard the one closest to me is still stocked. I also heard that the dollar stores are fully stocked. DH said he'd run out to walmart last night super late to see if he could catch them after restocking but before the crowds hit (it is a 24 hr store) but I told him we wouldn't starve, and that we both needed to catch up on sleep more than get groceries. He had a busy week and with the time change we were both exhausted. Hoping that was the right call. 

[maize]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

First, you will have to excuse me if I am a bit bothered by the bashing of the US going on in the doctor's post.

Second, "cancel all unnecessary things"  I think I have already said, we (my family) have no unnecessary things to cancel.  We have no travel plans, no regular lessons, we don't go to school, etc etc.   We apparently are pretty boring.  We had no plans to go see any ball games, no March Madness, no conventions to go to, etc etc.  

Third, the post I quoted didn't say anything about a "lack of action."  It specifically said "lack of care."  

And finally, given that eleventy billion things here in the US that ARE being cancelled or postponed, from the basketball tournaments, to MLB to schools, etc etc etc, I find it interesting that people want to describe that as a "lack of action."

I don't see bashing of the US, I see distress over the lack of widespread testing in the US and the fact that this disease is spreading exponentially over here.

Our national response so far has been too little, too late; yes stuff is now being cancelled, testing is now being ramped up--this should have been happening weeks ago.

[Ausmumof3]

18 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

First, you will have to excuse me if I am a bit bothered by the bashing of the US going on in the doctor's post.

Second, "cancel all unnecessary things"  I think I have already said, we (my family) have no unnecessary things to cancel.  We have no travel plans, no regular lessons, we don't go to school, etc etc.   We apparently are pretty boring.  We had no plans to go see any ball games, no March Madness, no conventions to go to, etc etc.  

Third, the post I quoted didn't say anything about a "lack of action."  It specifically said "lack of care."  

And finally, given that eleventy billion things here in the US that ARE being cancelled or postponed, from the basketball tournaments, to MLB to schools, etc etc etc, I find it interesting that people want to describe that as a "lack of action."

Post was first posted around 19 hours ago. To be fair to the author most cancellations here at least have started happening since that time.  I don’t think it was USA bashing in general just disappointment at the handling of this situation.  Thirdly I think the thing is even people downplaying or just saying it’s just another flu - even if they are taking preventative measures themselves seems to give the message to half the world that it’s ok to go to Disney or something.  

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, madteaparty said:

And you quoting me in every thread I participate will make me “care”.  Research certainly shows people react well to that. Continue with zeal, as you were.

I thought this was the only thread I quoted you in.  Apologies if there was others and it was feeling stalker like or piling on or something.  I usually quote when I’m replying to something because there’s often several sub convos in a thread and it’s hard to keep them straight otherwise . And I still can’t figure out multi quote on my phone.

[Ausmumof3]

6 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I don't think it's true that most of the cancellations have happened in the last 19hrs, at least here in the US.  I think here, they have been kinda rolling in slowly, in scattered bits across the country and then just steadily increasing throughout the week.  

I don't think half the world is going to Disney, or even thinks it's ok (of course, Disney is closing now anyway lol.)

 

 

Yeah the doctor is in Aus and as far as closures go we are behind you (also case numbers but smaller population so that’s to be expected). Only schools with actual cases closing and then sometimes only some classrooms.  A couple of unis closed temporarily.  And no events with over 500 people after this weekend.  We also don’t have the level of travel bans on Europe.

[ktgrok]

Line at Aldi 30 mini after it opened. Some toilet paper and some paper towels, a few bars of soap. No other cleaning products.line wraps around the store. 

[Ausmumof3]

Wow that’s crazy

[Valley Girl]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

The money worries me a LOT, like trouble sleeping due to worry about people that can't afford rent, can't afford water, etc. But i also am frustrated that people don't seem to comprehend that their kids would rather they go bankrupt than die. Money can come back, lives can't. So I'm super worried about the economy, but also keeping in mind that lives matter more than money. And that we NEED a better social safety net. 

 

 

Please don't assume that people don't comprehend that. It's easy to say "money can come back" blithely when you aren't the one in debt, facing the loss of everything and aren't sure (after MONTHS of crushing stress and worry) what will happen to your family. At that point, the corona virus seems the least of your worries.  It doesn't mean you don't care about your kids or other people.

[historically accurate]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Amen. Y'all remember my thread about the neighbor that will send over one kid to knock on my door to play when they just got back from the doctor where her other kid was diagnosed with flu! Or same neighbor, sending kid over to play while neighbor and her husband and her other kid are all puking. And this is KNOWING I have a kid who gets brain inflammation when exposed to illness!

So yeah, don't trust them or any of the people that said, "hey, nothing wrong with that!" to self isolate or slow this down. 

Right now a mom in my old church moms' group (I'm still ont he facebook page) has a high fever and bad cough as does her child, and has not sought testing even though we have confirmed cases in the city that the church is in. My fear is she will get better, and then not knowing it could be COVID 19 will NOT isolate for 2 weeks. I mean, who would, if they think it was just a regular cold? So then spread it. That church has THOUSANDS of attendees. Ugh. 

The money worries me a LOT, like trouble sleeping due to worry about people that can't afford rent, can't afford water, etc. But i also am frustrated that people don't seem to comprehend that their kids would rather they go bankrupt than die. Money can come back, lives can't. So I'm super worried about the economy, but also keeping in mind that lives matter more than money. And that we NEED a better social safety net. 

I can confirm. I spend an hour thursday making my list and placing my order, feeling all proud that for the first time I remembered to do it thursday so i could pick up groceries friday. (normally I don't remember until friday and by then they often don't have pick up spots until monday). I arranged pick up for 3pm Friday, so that my oldest would be home from work to watch the kids, figuring I'd run a few errands and pick that up. Got an email at 11am that my order was canceled. No explanation, just cancelled. 

Thankfully the Schwann's guy came by yesterday afternoon so I was able to get some chicken breasts, icecream, and french fries and that got us through dinner. I'm about to run out to Aldi now as I heard the one closest to me is still stocked. I also heard that the dollar stores are fully stocked. DH said he'd run out to walmart last night super late to see if he could catch them after restocking but before the crowds hit (it is a 24 hr store) but I told him we wouldn't starve, and that we both needed to catch up on sleep more than get groceries. He had a busy week and with the time change we were both exhausted. Hoping that was the right call. 

My DH is really worried about the money - we live pretty close to the edge. I figure if worse comes to worse we'll declare bankruptcy. I assume we'll have to work until we die anyway, so it's not a huge difference to me. 

Walmart did that to me with a pickup on Thursday - just a cancellation with no explanation. Within an hour of the cancellation, I just hit "reorder all items" and I was able to pick up my order yesterday morning - bonus that they gave me a $10 off coupon code. 

The store this morning was picked over, but not like a zombie apocalypse. Only thing I saw completely out of stock was toilet paper and all-purpose flour (they had self-rising). We went this morning because my youngest got money from Grandma for a new bike and with the cancellation of her activities, we figured the bike would be a good option. I walked through the grocery aisles out of curiosity. 

[maize]

I also braved the grocery store--I have plenty of frozen and shelf stable stuff but I thought maybe I could pick up milk and fresh produce first thing in the morning. It was still dark out but the parking lot was more full than I have ever seen it; the checkout clerk told me there were people lined up before they opened this morning.

It wasn't a mad house, people were being polite and friendly and the shelves were mostly stocked--well, the toilet paper aisle looked pretty empty! There was hand soap and such though and checkout lines weren't crazy long. I got three gallons of regular milk and some half gallons of ultra pasteurized milk that will last longer, I don't have fridge space for more. I'm hoping not to have to go back for another week at least (could live off of the pantry and freezer for a few weeks but we do like fresh milk and produce!)

I usually shop at least twice a week but I want to stay away from the stores as much as possible until the panic dies down.

[maize]

One of the stockers was talking with a customer in the bread aisle, hypothesizing that this isn't really a big deal it's just being hyped up because it is an election year. I pointed out that that didn't explain what is happening in Italy and they said oh yeah, it doesn't explain Italy and looked a bit more thoughtful.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, maize said:

I don't see bashing of the US, I see distress over the lack of widespread testing in the US and the fact that this disease is spreading exponentially over here.

Our national response so far has been too little, too late; yes stuff is now being cancelled, testing is now being ramped up--this should have been happening weeks ago.

 

I’m probably much more concerned than average, (though I would not consider myself “overly” concerned since logic tells me this is a legitimately extremely concerning pandemic, probably the worst in a century) at least as I see people’s responses whether here or irl.  

Yet, I am *not* distressed about the lack of widespread testing, nor do I think we are at a “too little, too late” point by any means. 

Though ironically I think it is the “distress” itself that has allowed what needs to happen to start happening. 

As a far West coaster of USA resident, I think it likely that given the amount of travel from mainland China including the extremely populous city of Wuhan (tourism, commerce, education, Chinese citizens who own homes here, etc.) that we already had unrecognized community spread well before there was recognition that there was a Novel CoronaVirus epidemic started, very possibly before China  became widely cognizant. Probably even as Dr Li was trying to sound the alarm there, it was already spreading here too. 

I think it is unfortunate that we had that early problem with tests and testing, but think it very likely that given the large volume of travel between the 2 countries infection in USA and thus the beginnings of community spread would have already occurred unrecognized before it became clear that there was person to person and also asymptomatic spread even possible.  So I don’t think we would actually have been able to Contain SARS2 and eradicate it in reality as was possible with SARS1, even if the tests had been perfect and widely available. The less extreme early symptoms, many mild cases, and asymptomatic superspread possibilities of SARS2 make it a far more effective pandemic capable virus. 

I also think that American views in particular and “Western” countries in general tendency toward personal freedoms and liberties would not have allowed a hard police state type lockdown (such as in China or Singapore) preemptively and early when most people still didn’t think there was any problem.  I think far more people would have rebelled, and problems resulting from that could have been far worse. 

I think it took time for enough of the public opinion tide to turn and that that was needed before things could be done in a top down way, from local school district closings on up to declaring National State of Emergency.  

I think what is supposed to be being done at this stage for mitigation and slowing down of spread, “flattening the curve” is correct, is being well done.

I am hopeful that enough people will do the right thing (even with some people busy organizing privately to have big gatherings and pancake breakfasts and the like) and enough rules will be in place from on high, plus enough educational, work and personal social distancing, that the curve will be flattened enough.

And not all even has to be specifically the CV19 rate slowing.  If people do less night time driving when not necessary there may be fewer vehicle crashes needing medical treatment and perhaps ICU beds.  Same for a lot of other quietening things down and practicing social distancing, There May be fewer flu cases, fewer sports injuries, and more, all of which would add to lowering demand on the emergency response and medical treatment system. 

In addition, I am also very hopeful as I see some ingenuity and humanitarianism on personal, small group, and corporate levels really starting to step up.  

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Amen. Y'all remember my thread about the neighbor that will send over one kid to knock on my door to play when they just got back from the doctor where her other kid was diagnosed with flu! Or same neighbor, sending kid over to play while neighbor and her husband and her other kid are all puking. And this is KNOWING I have a kid who gets brain inflammation when exposed to illness!

So yeah, don't trust them or any of the people that said, "hey, nothing wrong with that!" to self isolate or slow this down. 

Right now a mom in my old church moms' group (I'm still ont he facebook page) has a high fever and bad cough as does her child, and has not sought testing even though we have confirmed cases in the city that the church is in. My fear is she will get better, and then not knowing it could be COVID 19 will NOT isolate for 2 weeks. I mean, who would, if they think it was just a regular cold? So then spread it. That church has THOUSANDS of attendees. Ugh. 

 

re: the neighbor. I know people who do that because they're looking for a babysitter.
I had a friend who was really ill when she was in college.  she told her roommate she wasn't to be disturbed. . . . roommate made sure there were no phone calls or visitors to disturb her. BUT, roommate was constantly coming in to ask her questions.   My friend finally had to be really blunt.  "when I said I didn't want to be disturbed - that includes you!"   it was something her roommate never had supposed.

the church - that's what happened in Korea.  They traced it to a sick woman at a huge mega church, and it exploded.

3 hours ago, Plum said:

Me too! All of the stores around me cut their hours back a few years ago. I don’t like having to wait until 6am to go for a grocery run. 
It would be a good idea to make more stores 24 hours. It would help with social distancing. It would help working people stock up on supplies without the mad 5pm rush we’ve been seeing. It would stagger worker hours. Seems like a plan to me. 

dd went to Costco yesterday after picking up the dogs (around 4ish?).  she said it was pretty quiet - and she'd never seen the pallets so low.  they told her they sold out of TP within 30 minutes of the store opening.  (we have plenty, so we're just watching.)
 

33 minutes ago, maize said:

One of the stockers was talking with a customer in the bread aisle, hypothesizing that this isn't really a big deal it's just being hyped up because it is an election year. I pointed out that that didn't explain what is happening in Italy and they said oh yeah, it doesn't explain Italy and looked a bit more thoughtful.

Or Iran (satellite images of mass graves indicate they're lying about their official numbers, and their official numbers are bad.) Or Spain, Or South Korea.  When you look at them in cases per million of population, all much worse than china.

Edited March 14, 2020 by gardenmom5

[Mbelle]

I am more worried about money than health, because no money leads to very bad health for us.  We probably won't die so hopefully we won't go broke either.  

I became slightly concerned this morning that we would be eating rice for days if people don't stop hoarding bread.  I'm not sure what on earth folks are thinking.  We refuse to get involved in the mob scene out there.  The local news reported that there was a 2 hour wait to get IN to our local costco yesterday and the line to check out stretched to the back of the store.  That is completly irrational behaviour.  China is not going to bomb us they just sent us a virus.  We won't all get sick at the exact same minute.  

[Pen]

41 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

I am more worried about money than health, because no money leads to very bad health for us.  We probably won't die so hopefully we won't go broke either.  

I became slightly concerned this morning that we would be eating rice for days if people don't stop hoarding bread.  I'm not sure what on earth folks are thinking.  We refuse to get involved in the mob scene out there.  The local news reported that there was a 2 hour wait to get IN to our local costco yesterday and the line to check out stretched to the back of the store.  That is completly irrational behaviour.  China is not going to bomb us they just sent us a virus.  We won't all get sick at the exact same minute.  

 

I also have high concerns about finances, generally for many many people and personally.

 I became extremely sick in my late 20’s with financially devastating results as well as permanent chronic health problems and disability.  I had before that been doing a good job with savings both for short term emergency and toward long term hoping to marry, help buy home someday retirement etc.  I could not work anymore because too sick, lost work based medical insurance, went through all my savings etc.    30 years later I have started to develop a little financial cushion, but not huge, not enough for “retirement”, and I am very concerned that if I get sick enough to need hospital I would be financially wiped out again. 

I am trying to do all I can to have mild non hospital requiring illness when I get it.

[Pen]

 

Oops.  Warning, error, this was meant for the long thread.  I’ll leave it in case it could help, but it isn’t an uplifting “no concerns” type podcast, so don’t listen if you have high anxiety, distress tendencies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/podcasts/the-daily/coronavirus.html

seems good

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Pen

[sassenach]

4 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

First, you will have to excuse me if I am a bit bothered by the bashing of the US going on in the doctor's post.

Second, "cancel all unnecessary things"  I think I have already said, we (my family) have no unnecessary things to cancel.  We have no travel plans, no regular lessons, we don't go to school, etc etc.   We apparently are pretty boring.  We had no plans to go see any ball games, no March Madness, no conventions to go to, etc etc.  

Third, the post I quoted didn't say anything about a "lack of action."  It specifically said "lack of care."  

And finally, given that eleventy billion things here in the US that ARE being cancelled or postponed, from the basketball tournaments, to MLB to schools, etc etc etc, I find it interesting that people want to describe that as a "lack of action."

My son’s Russian nurse, who has live all around the world, says that the rest of the world blames us for everything. If something is going wrong in a country, there’s a way to blame it on the US. In the next breath she told me how mad at the Chinese she is over this whole thing. Shrug. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Mbelle said:

 China is not going to bomb us they just sent us a virus.

I cannot let such a dangerous and ignorant statement pass.  They did not "send us" a virus.  This is how pandemics work.  They start at a specific place.  Often it is Asia not because of some conspiracy but because of the open markets etc.  Then because global trade and travel is what it is in a world of fast air travel, it gets spread around the world.  China has had huge losses of their own.  They are greatly impacted.  Yes, we are and will continue to be impacted.  So is the entire world so the US doesn't have any reason to go on some "poor us, we've been targeted" b.s. 

[EmseB]

40 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I cannot let such a dangerous and ignorant statement pass.  They did not "send us" a virus.  This is how pandemics work.  They start at a specific place.  Often it is Asia not because of some conspiracy but because of the open markets etc.  Then because global trade and travel is what it is in a world of fast air travel, it gets spread around the world.  China has had huge losses of their own.  They are greatly impacted.  Yes, we are and will continue to be impacted.  So is the entire world so the US doesn't have any reason to go on some "poor us, we've been targeted" b.s. 

They also hid the numbers and cases for a long while past what was necessary for containment, punished whistleblowers trying to get the word out, are imprisoning vulnerable people in their homes, and are now pushing propaganda that the origin was from the US Army. So it isn't a benign oopsie either.

[Jean in Newcastle]

4 minutes ago, EmseB said:

They also hid the numbers and cases for a long while past what was necessary for containment, punished whistleblowers trying to get the word out, are imprisoning vulnerable people in their homes, and are now pushing propaganda that the origin was from the US Army. So it isn't a benign oopsie either.

And the US had time to be proactive in closing borders, restricting travel and in doing immediate widespread testing or at least procurement of the supplies from the first hint of the virus and didn't.  That isn't a benign oopsie either.  It might be an incompetent oopsie but not benign. 

[EmseB]

12 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

And the US had time to be proactive in closing borders, restricting travel and in doing immediate widespread testing or at least procurement of the supplies from the first hint of the virus and didn't.  That isn't a benign oopsie either.  It might be an incompetent oopsie but not benign. 

I wasn't talking about the US. I was responding to the idea in your post that China just had this happen to them and wasn't complicit in the global problems we have now. They absolutely were. The US has it's own issues certainly but that wasn't what your post was about that I was responding to.

[Jean in Newcastle]

6 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I wasn't talking about the US. I was responding to the idea in your post that China just had this happen to them and wasn't complicit in the global problems we have now. They absolutely were. The US has it's own issues certainly but that wasn't what your post was about that I was responding to.

Being complicit in the sense that they did not act with enough transparency etc. is different than being complicit in an intentional conspiracy to infect the U.S. - which is the ignorant idea I was combating in my post to begin with. 

[Mbelle]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I cannot let such a dangerous and ignorant statement pass.  They did not "send us" a virus.  This is how pandemics work.  They start at a specific place.  Often it is Asia not because of some conspiracy but because of the open markets etc.  Then because global trade and travel is what it is in a world of fast air travel, it gets spread around the world.  China has had huge losses of their own.  They are greatly impacted.  Yes, we are and will continue to be impacted.  So is the entire world so the US doesn't have any reason to go on some "poor us, we've been targeted" b.s. 

This is a classic knee jerk reaction with a sweeping statement used as an excuse to lecture, shame and blame.  

[EmseB]

18 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Being complicit in the sense that they did not act with enough transparency etc. is different than being complicit in an intentional conspiracy to infect the U.S. - which is the ignorant idea I was combating in my post to begin with. 

Gotcha. I think some might differ in what "sent us a virus" means. It doesn't have to mean intentional conspiracy. I firmly believe the Chinese govt knew this was a problem long before it was revealed to the world and tried to hide it to save face and absolutely did end up exporting the virus because of that. No real conspiracy, no tinfoil hat, just standard authoritarian govt not wanting to admit a problem. I, for one, was extremely happy when we (the US) cut off travel from China as soon as we did. It was definitely too late by that point, though I'm not sure we could have done anything sooner given Chinese obfuscation. I guess it's neither here nor there at this point except I really wish it will be different next time with lessons learned and all that, and since wet markets aren't going to go away, there will be a next time. I don't have much hope though since China is now actively deflecting that they were even the start of the problem.

[SKL]

6 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Post was first posted around 19 hours ago. To be fair to the author most cancellations here at least have started happening since that time.  I don’t think it was USA bashing in general just disappointment at the handling of this situation.  Thirdly I think the thing is even people downplaying or just saying it’s just another flu - even if they are taking preventative measures themselves seems to give the message to half the world that it’s ok to go to Disney or something.  

Why do people assume "it's not that different from the flu" means "we all love getting and spreading the flu!  Can't wait for my old folks to catch the flu, it's so fun!"  Maybe it just means we are used to widespread illnesses that can be serious for some people, we know what to do about it, and there's no need to freak out over this one?  The media using words like "terrifying" etc. is not necessary IMO. 

Last night we got a call from a friend in India all concerned by a headline she had read about my state.  At that moment the diagnosed cases in my state were a total of 13 (nobody in hospital afaik) and there were about 50 others who knew had been in contact and were awaiting test results.  Someone ran a model and decided it was likely there were 100,000 people walking around our state with the virus (presumably almost all asymptomatic or very mildly ill).  Then posted a news story with a headline that implied we had 100,000 people dying of C19 right now.  Really not helpful.  Next thing you know there's no toilet paper to be found.

Meanwhile there are millions of people with the flu, including tens of thousands of vulnerable people dying of it, as happens every year, and nobody saying anything about that.

[SKL]

As far as what the US did or didn't do, aside from that being over-blown for political reasons, ... probably most of the people who brought the virus to the USA were US citizens or permanent residents, even if they did travel to China to visit relatives for Chinese New Year or whatever.  It's not like we were going to keep them all out.  Also this is not a police state, especially not before the domestic declarations of emergencies, which would not have been reasonable way back when this started.  If the virus is easy to spread, then it was inevitable that it would spread - regardless of testing.  I think people need to just accept that and move on.

Time will tell how this all shakes out.  In the mean time, I get annoyed by all the trash talk which I hear over and over day in and day out.

[Ausmumof3]

oops wrong thread 

Edited March 14, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[TCB]

9 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

First, you will have to excuse me if I am a bit bothered by the bashing of the US going on in the doctor's post.

Second, "cancel all unnecessary things"  I think I have already said, we (my family) have no unnecessary things to cancel.  We have no travel plans, no regular lessons, we don't go to school, etc etc.   We apparently are pretty boring.  We had no plans to go see any ball games, no March Madness, no conventions to go to, etc etc.  

Third, the post I quoted didn't say anything about a "lack of action."  It specifically said "lack of care."  

And finally, given that eleventy billion things here in the US that ARE being cancelled or postponed, from the basketball tournaments, to MLB to schools, etc etc etc, I find it interesting that people want to describe that as a "lack of action."

I think we are taking action now. We maybe didn’t take as much action as we could have during the containment phase, mostly we didn’t get testing up and running. I think because of the inability to test we may well have no idea what is going on here yet. But only time will tell. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

As far as what the US did or didn't do, aside from that being over-blown for political reasons, ... probably most of the people who brought the virus to the USA were US citizens or permanent residents, even if they did travel to China to visit relatives for Chinese New Year or whatever.  It's not like we were going to keep them all out.  Also this is not a police state, especially not before the domestic declarations of emergencies, which would not have been reasonable way back when this started.  If the virus is easy to spread, then it was inevitable that it would spread - regardless of testing.  I think people need to just accept that and move on.

Time will tell how this all shakes out.  In the mean time, I get annoyed by all the trash talk which I hear over and over day in and day out.

I think the testing is pretty critical.  I do wish it wasn’t being politicised by either side because it needs to be solved and turning it into a blame game risks people on either side digging in and not taking necessary action.

[KungFuPanda]

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I cannot let such a dangerous and ignorant statement pass.  They did not "send us" a virus.  This is how pandemics work.  They start at a specific place.  Often it is Asia not because of some conspiracy but because of the open markets etc.  Then because global trade and travel is what it is in a world of fast air travel, it gets spread around the world.  China has had huge losses of their own.  They are greatly impacted.  Yes, we are and will continue to be impacted.  So is the entire world so the US doesn't have any reason to go on some "poor us, we've been targeted" b.s. 

Ummmmm . . .  I'm pretty sure she was defending China.  When I read the post I didn't think she meant they sent the virus purposely or maliciously.  She just meant it originated there.

[Frances]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

Why do people assume "it's not that different from the flu" means "we all love getting and spreading the flu!  Can't wait for my old folks to catch the flu, it's so fun!"  Maybe it just means we are used to widespread illnesses that can be serious for some people, we know what to do about it, and there's no need to freak out over this one?  The media using words like "terrifying" etc. is not necessary IMO. 

Last night we got a call from a friend in India all concerned by a headline she had read about my state.  At that moment the diagnosed cases in my state were a total of 13 (nobody in hospital afaik) and there were about 50 others who knew had been in contact and were awaiting test results.  Someone ran a model and decided it was likely there were 100,000 people walking around our state with the virus (presumably almost all asymptomatic or very mildly ill).  Then posted a news story with a headline that implied we had 100,000 people dying of C19 right now.  Really not helpful.  Next thing you know there's no toilet paper to be found.

Meanwhile there are millions of people with the flu, including tens of thousands of vulnerable people dying of it, as happens every year, and nobody saying anything about that.

I think the main difference is that the flu season is usually spread out over seven months or so and many people choose to get vaccinated, plus we don’t usually have a large percentage of asymptomatic carriers. So while hospitals can get extra busy during flu season, they have the capacity to handle it. Because we were so late getting things going here in response to the virus and there is no vaccine and we still have barely any testing, the biggest risk is that the number of cases needing medical care greatly overwhelms the medical system, as is happening in Italy. About 20% of symptomatic cases need hospital care  according to estimates from other countries, so it makes a pretty big difference how many cases occur and how spread out they are over time. The delay in getting the level of testing going that other counties have means we already have significantly more community spread than we would have otherwise. Hopefully the intensive social distancing measures now going on can slow the spread enough that the hospital system can adequately deal with the serious cases.

[Matryoshka]

21 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think the main difference is that the flu season is usually spread out over seven months or so and many people choose to get vaccinated, plus we don’t usually have a large percentage of asymptomatic carriers. So while hospitals can get extra busy during flu season, they have the capacity to handle it. Because we were so late getting things going here in response to the virus and there is no vaccine and we still have barely any testing, the biggest risk is that the number of cases needing medical care greatly overwhelms the medical system, as is happening in Italy. About 20% of symptomatic cases need hospital care  according to estimates from other countries, so it makes a pretty big difference how many cases occur and how spread out they are over time. The delay in getting the level of testing going that other counties have means we already have significantly more community spread than we would have otherwise. Hopefully the intensive social distancing measures now going on can slow the spread enough that the hospital system can adequately deal with the serious cases.

My niece, a virologist, posted these about the difference between this virus and the flu:

 

[Laurie]

From the local news:  https://komonews.com/news/coronavirus/washington-coronavirus-death-count-hits-40-and-642-cases

I'm not very good with statistics, but I was really surprised at the numbers in the story.  Of course the media will highlight the death count and 40 deaths is very sad.  But isn't it a good thing that there are 7,122 people in our state who have tested negative for the virus?   The number of people with positive cases is listed as 642, and so far I haven't heard any reports of hospitals being overwhelmed with very sick people and not able to provide beds or other equipment.   There was a woman interviewed on the news  who was very surprised when she learned that she had tested positive for the virus, and she was never in the hospital.  It's just like the medical experts have been saying:  most people will recover without needing any medical attention.  

I truly understand that this virus can be fatal.  My husband is in a higher risk group, and I think I'm more concerned than he is.  But I'm still amazed at the level of attention and even panic that's going on.  I can see paying a lot of attention to infection control measures in places like nursing homes, but I never imagined that so many places would be shutting down.  

 

 

 

 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

My niece, a virologist, posted these about the difference between this virus and the flu:

 

 

It is really disturbing to me to keep seeing these posted when they directly contradict what the CDC has said.  For example, it doesn't say how many people are asymptomatic.  And the CDC's own website says incubation period can be as little as 2 days.

[Matryoshka]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

It is really disturbing to me to keep seeing these posted when they directly contradict what the CDC has said.  For example, it doesn't say how many people are asymptomatic.  And the CDC's own website says incubation period can be as little as 2 days.

I think that's a big problem with this one vs others that isn't mentioned on this chart - how many are asymptomatic for how long, and that it now seems people may even be *more* contagious during that period.  That's where the longer incubation period is such a problem. 

I do think what's helpful is seeing how much higher the community attack rate is with this one vs all the others, and that a runny nose alone is likely not this.  And the much, much higher hospitalization rate combined with a the higher attack rate and asymptomatic spread seems to be some kind of perfect storm. ..

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, EmseB said:

Gotcha. I think some might differ in what "sent us a virus" means. It doesn't have to mean intentional conspiracy. I firmly believe the Chinese govt knew this was a problem long before it was revealed to the world and tried to hide it to save face and absolutely did end up exporting the virus because of that.

You could replace the word Chinese with American and have pretty much the same truth, unfortunately. 

1 hour ago, Laurie said:

 

I truly understand that this virus can be fatal.  My husband is in a higher risk group, and I think I'm more concerned than he is.  But I'm still amazed at the level of attention and even panic that's going on.  I can see paying a lot of attention to infection control measures in places like nursing homes, but I never imagined that so many places would be shutting down.  

 

 

Well, the issue is that unlike the flu, workers in nursing homes can't be vaccinated for this. So if a bunch of us are running around the grocery store and the movies and Panera and church feeling well but spreading the virus, those workers are more likely to pick it up themselves and then transmit it to their patients at the nursing home. Until we have a vaccine, those of us not at risk need to help protect those at risk, as best we can.