Am I the only one not overly worried about Covid19?

[Murphy101]

I mean. I care just as much as I care about flu, which overall is a lot worse than Covid19.  We get our annual flu shots. We take our supplements and try to maintain general health and hygiene practices to reduce spread or contact.  I also keep enough meds and sick stuff for a household 1-2 week illness bc no one wants to go to the Walmart when they are sick.  But no one ever says “OMG literally thousands have died from flu this year so start canceling everything and closing shop and no handshakes!”  Though I could do without the exchange of peace at Mass all year long.  And I have a diabetic husband and I and a couple kids have asthma  - I’m not unaware of how awful these things can be to our bodies.

But I still have no idea wth everyone is losing their minds about this. 🤷‍♀️

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Murphy101

[MysteryJen]

You are not alone.

I still have all my trips planned. I am going about my business as I do every flu season. Wash hands, clean the door handles and light switches and not expose  elderly people to any sort of cold.

[Katy]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I mean. I care just as much as I care about flu, which overall is a lot worse than Covid19.  We get our annual flu shots. We take our supplements and try to maintain general health and hygiene practices to reduce spread or contact.  I also keep enough meds and sick stuff for a household 1-2 week illness bc no one wants to go to the Walmart when they are sick.  But no one ever says “OMG literally thousands have died from flu this year so start canceling everything and closing shop and no handshakes!”  Though I could do without the exchange of peace at Mass all year long.  And I have a diabetic husband and I and a couple kids have asthma  - I’m not unaware of how awful these things can be to our bodies.

But I still have no idea wth everyone is losing their minds about this. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

I don't know of a doctor on the media who's continued to say the flu is worse in the past week, since there has been community spread and deaths here.  This is now worse than the flu.

Would most of the people who die from coronavirus have died from something ELSE in the next 5 years?  Probably.

I'm staying home because we're sick, but we have enough food stored that I feel as safe as I can.  And even with our medical issues I'm pretty sure we still have a higher risk of dying in a car accident on the way to the doctor to get tested than we do from this virus.  I do worry a bit about our parents and couple living grandmothers, but I don't think there's anything I can do about that so I'm trying not to.

[Sk8ermaiden]

The losing their minds aspect could be related to seeing what happened in Wuhan and worrying it would happen here - the extreme worst-case scenario. Or just beause people are bad at risk assessment and the unknown makes them panic? (I'm going to say this is a big one.)

Some see this as yet another (and more severe) threat to themselves or their loved ones in high-risk categories this germ season.

And then some will get concerned that other people's panic could become a self-fulfulling prophecy in affecting the economy and daily operations. 

 

[Murphy101]

I don’t even with the media.  If we don’t trust the media, that’s fine go straight to usually reputable sources  

So I did go read the cdc, who, nih and honestly felt the reactions were just weird. Because yes, flu and rsv have already done more damage this year than covid19. But no one is freaking about those.

But people who think it’s all conspiracy - well if they don’t trust ANY source then that just extra begs the question as to why get hyped up.

One of many things that me think, “huh?”

[Sk8ermaiden]

Conspiracy-theorists' relationship to the media is always so interesting to me. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Sk8ermaiden

[lauraw4321]

Well, it definitely is much more than the flu, in terms of percentage rates of mortality. So yes, while more people have died from the flu, the percentage of people who are dying from coronavirus is MUCH higher (.01% compared to 3.4%). Plus this is a completely new virus. We simply do not know what will happen in the long term to people who are infected. Viruses have ways of doing very weird things to people (shingles, Guillome-Barre syndrome). 

I am not worried about myself or even my kids because we aren't in any of the high risk, however, the longer we can go without contracting it, the more likely it is that either 1) there will be a vaccine available, 2) there will be targeted treatments and 3) the healthcare system will not be overwhelmed.

I am worried about my elders who have multiple health factors who are blithely going to major conferences, etc.

I'm not someone who believes in conspiracy theories. I'm not a prepper. I'm not someone who believes this is a Sign of the Times or anything else. 

[lauraw4321]

Oh, and I'm not "freaking out." I'm at work today. My kids are at school. I live in Seattle.

I also don't "freak out" about the flu, but I do take similar precautions. I get the flu shot. I stay away from sick people. There's a very big difference between "freaking out" and taking reasonable precautions.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm not losing my mind or panicking, but I did stock up a little more than usual (not responsible for the Purell or mask shortage; I bought neither), and I don't think it's the end of the world or a sign of God. Most people -- that is, young and healthy people -- wil be fine...but I'm not impressed with bragging about the privilege of not being concerned.

Those of us who have old or frail people at home, or whose children are in and out of hospitals all the time, or whose damaged lungs can't take One More Hit and therefore we would be at risk of dying, ourselves, with all these people depending on us...panicking does no good, ever, but we are watching this. We are taking precautions. We are making plans, because if we actually were to get this disease -- as everyone probably will get it, especially as it's being managed in the US -- we might literally die.

So we have to make plans as if it's only going to be an inconvenience for awhile, to avoid getting it, AND we also have to make plans as if we might get sick and die. We need to make sure we have the supplies for staying home as long as possible, quarantining family members into one bedroom and bathroom to not spread it within the family, figuring out what would happen to the sick people we care for, if we were to succumb, wargaming possible scenarios for getting our children to necessary therapies and appointments if we are sick...

Happy for you that none of this concerns your personal family. Since you don't have to spend the time that the rest of us are spending to stay informed and get prepared, maybe you could take a minute to express to your elected officials that people in this nation will suffer and die from Covid19 so it would be good to get some improvement on action and accountability.

Not Everybody Is Low Risk.

😕

[Murphy101]

14 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

I don't know of a doctor on the media who's continued to say the flu is worse in the past week, since there has been community spread and deaths here.  This is now worse than the flu.

I have seen nothing claiming this is worse than the flu. Everything reputable I have seen says in roughly 20% of less cases this attacks weak lungs leading to pneumonia (also the usual cause of death in flu patients) and eventually organ failure due to lack of healthy oxygen levels.

Thus the suggestion that if you have flu symptoms you should seek emergency care ASAP if you become at all short of breath. Many elderly and asthmatics producers what all other categories are used to expecting to feel a tight chest when sick.  And while normally they’d wait a day or so to see if it clears, if it is covid19 - the faster they treat it the better the survival rate. 

I think the main and valid concern is mostly hospitals not being able to meet the demand. Which is a concern every flu season too. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don’t have the luxury of not caring about this. It impacts my potential health (I am immunocompromised). It impacts my calendar- city wide, events are being cancelled. It impacts dh’s work place. It impacts my dd’s job. It impacts the local schools which indirectly impact me. It impacts the local economy. It impacts my access to health care. Other areas of the country don’t have this level of impact yet but I find it rather rude to laugh off the real impacts that this has on people. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

7 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I don’t have the luxury of not caring about this. It impacts my potential health (I am immunocompromised). It impacts my calendar- city wide, events are being cancelled. It impacts dh’s work place. It impacts my dd’s job. It impacts the local schools which indirectly impact me. It impacts the local economy. It impacts my access to health care. Other areas of the country don’t have this level of impact yet but I find it rather rude to laugh off the real impacts that this has on people. 

This is where I'm coming from.

People are literally suffering and dying right now, and all over the internet there are others unaffected saying, "What's the big deal? Am I the only one not concerned, because it hasn't affected meeeee? Tra, la, la, this is nothing, everybody calm down."

This is the voice of people who have never suffered a potentially fatal episode of a breathing-affected disease, which is one of the worst forms of human suffering. This is the voice of people who haven't watched a loved one die within the last week of something that they never should have been exposed to, if proper information and protocols had been available and enforced. (I'm referring to the families of the nursing home victims.) Also the voice of people who don't understand pandemics and the likelihood of well over a million dead people in their own country.

Knowledge. Empathy. Humility. 

If you think you're the only one who doesn't care about this or who seems unconcerned about this, seek information because logic would suggest that if you're the only one, you're probably missing something. I would recommend following Dr. Dena Grayson on Twitter. There are  other international virologists and epidemiologists who are also contributing their knowledge and wisdom.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Lang Syne Boardie

[AnotherE]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I don’t have the luxury of not caring about this. It impacts my potential health (I am immunocompromised). It impacts my calendar- city wide, events are being cancelled. It impacts dh’s work place. It impacts my dd’s job. It impacts the local schools which indirectly impact me. It impacts the local economy. It impacts my access to health care. Other areas of the country don’t have this level of impact yet but I find it rather rude to laugh off the real impacts that this has on people. 

This is me too. People are dying a mile from me. Schools are closing around me, my son's college just went to online only classes today, my husband's company has closed the Seattle branch indefinitely, requiring those who can to work at home. Grocery pick-up options are filled a day or more in advance and many of the needed things are sold out. Every city around me, including my own, has declared a state of emergency. It is estimated that hundreds of people are infected that either don't know they are or have not been tested. That number is supposed to double every six days.

For those who aren't  affected I truly hope your community remains safe from this. Even if it isn't scary to you, it is a huge disruption to life.

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Plum said:

Let's just hope this all makes people more aware of hand-washing, staying home when sick, covering their mouths when they cough or sneeze, protecting those with compromised immune systems and a general interest in disinfecting and cleaning public spaces and we'll all be better off. 🤞

This is what I hope we (as a society) learn from this. If people would show common sense with ALL illnesses, public health would be in a better place. (I do realize that many people don't have great options when they're sick and I wish something could be done about that.)

[Sk8ermaiden]

I definitely re-taught my children proper handwashing and am having us all wash hands more frequently, and plan to carry that forward, regardless of CO-VID.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Sk8ermaiden

[AnotherE]

Oh, and Trump's economic advisor today warned people not to travel to Seattle. Yay us.

[Katy]

22 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I have seen nothing claiming this is worse than the flu. Everything reputable I have seen says in roughly 20% of less cases this attacks weak lungs leading to pneumonia (also the usual cause of death in flu patients) and eventually organ failure due to lack of healthy oxygen levels.

Thus the suggestion that if you have flu symptoms you should seek emergency care ASAP if you become at all short of breath. Many elderly and asthmatics producers what all other categories are used to expecting to feel a tight chest when sick.  And while normally they’d wait a day or so to see if it clears, if it is covid19 - the faster they treat it the better the survival rate. 

I think the main and valid concern is mostly hospitals not being able to meet the demand. Which is a concern every flu season too. 

 

Well then turn the news back on because that was only said because it wasn't spreading here.  The death rate for this is MUCH higher than the flu.  It's more than 3%, ASSUMING the statistics we got from China are accurate (and there are several legitimate reasons to think they are not). If you use the current rate of Italian cases alone this is at least 5 times worse than the flu.

[BarbecueMom]

I'm not completely unconcerned, but I'm emetophobic and cannot get any more anal-retentive about hygiene without seriously upsetting family and friends.  There's literally nothing I can do differently than I normally do.  My biggest concern is actually the quarantine issue - either DH being quarantined away from us on a work trip, or all of us being on house arrest together until we strangle each other over the 870th Monopoly game (we have eight versions of Monopoly, it could get ugly).

That being said, if this was a new strain of norovirus instead of a respiratory one, I would have leaped into a volcano by now.

[Pawz4me]

I don't really know how to respond to this thread. So much snark and holier-than-thou-ness and loaded words are being thrown around and I do NOT want to contribute to that mess. But I'm among those who don't have the luxury of not caring. And I'm also someone who cares about the flu, too, and follows the news on that closely every year. Eleven new deaths from flu were reported in my state in the past week (and yes, I knew that w/o looking it up immediately before typing that). I have educated myself enough to understand that this is very different from the flu and potentially exponentially worse. So no, I can't be counted among the ranks of those who don't care. But neither am I remotely near panicking. Rather I'm using the information I have to prepare in what to me are logical, sensible ways.

[AnotherE]

6 minutes ago, BarbecueMom said:

That being said, if this was a new strain of norovirus instead of a respiratory one, I would have leaped into a volcano by now.

After catching Norovirus at Disneyland, I can't agree with this more.

[Kassia]

10 minutes ago, BarbecueMom said:

I'm not completely unconcerned, but I'm emetophobic

 

Kind of off-topic, but I'm emetophobic, too!  I've only met one other person like that and she somehow got over it.

I'm in the cautiously prepared but not freaking out camp.  🙂  

[lauraw4321]

In a way we're victims of our own successes. We haven't had to watch our children and our friends' children die from things like smallpox, polio, strep throat, etc. So we just can't really wrap our heads around a new disease that really could be quite bad. 

[lauraw4321]

14 minutes ago, BarbecueMom said:

I'm not completely unconcerned, but I'm emetophobic and cannot get any more anal-retentive about hygiene without seriously upsetting family and friends.  There's literally nothing I can do differently than I normally do.  My biggest concern is actually the quarantine issue - either DH being quarantined away from us on a work trip, or all of us being on house arrest together until we strangle each other over the 870th Monopoly game (we have eight versions of Monopoly, it could get ugly).

That being said, if this was a new strain of norovirus instead of a respiratory one, I would have leaped into a volcano by now.

I think norovirus is one of those few things (like salmonella) that you don't actually get immunity to it, even if you've had it.

I've had it twice. I've also had the flu, once when I'd had the vaccine (and was pregnant) and once when I was young and healthy, but hadn't had the vaccine. Overall, the flu without the vaccine was the most sick I have ever been in my life. Even when I was pregnant, because I'd had the vaccine, I didn't honestly realize I was sick and continued to go to work. My husband made me go to the doctor because we were supposed to go on a weekend trip and he was concerned about my health. I got a very stern lecture to stay in bed.

[Murphy101]

18 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

@Lang Syne Boardie actually a fair chunk of us just doing what we can and shrugging are doing so precisely because we have lived in high risk categories for years or have loved ones who do, and we recognize the regular danger isn’t necessarily less worrisome than the novel, well publicized new danger, just because we are familiar with it.  Nebulizer and prednisone in hand, I’m still shaking my head about a lot of this, at least on a media level.  

Yes. This. If this were to hit dh, the economic fallout would be awful for our family. And that’s presuming the positive of him surviving. I have 2 children with severe enough asthma that they’d be in just as high risk a category as dh if not higher.  So we have meds stocked like we always do and are trying to be as hygienic as possible. But no amount of stressing is going to make a difference. 

6 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

 If it proves to infiltrate hospitals and healthcare workers, that is very worrying.  THAT is what makes it different in my mind from the flu.  But we are leaving the country tomorrow, so no I'm not letting it stop me.  But i do think this is something to be concerned about.

But that literally is not different than the flu. Contagion doesn’t respect medical degrees.  A major reason hospitals stress over being able to meet demand during flu/rsv season is exactly bc they know it will hit staff too. 

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Well then turn the news back on because that was only said because it wasn't spreading here.  The death rate for this is MUCH higher than the flu.  It's more than 3%, ASSUMING the statistics we got from China are accurate (and there are several legitimate reasons to think they are not). If you use the current rate of Italian cases alone this is at least 5 times worse than the flu.

Which is bad but even 5x the flu is still a low number to the overall population.

Over 900k were hospitalized and of those, over 80k died of the flu in the US alone during the ‘17/18 season, which is one of the worst we’ve had in a decade.  But yet no one ever suggested people should have unusually high anxiety about the flu then or since. Which does not mean no one cares either.  But people have died in my city of the flu this year. Things have been canceled bc too many were out with flu or key people had flu and couldn’t keep their commitments. 

Pointing out the fact to help keep things in perspective is not saying we don’t care about sick or dying people. 

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

 

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, Happymomof1 said:

Yes, this is what I think as well.  Our generation is somewhat spoiled.  No big wars, not big epidemics, etc.  We are rather soft.

In general, yes. I feel differently, I think, because 1) I went to an evangelical church that was very into the End Times, 2) I grew up expecting the world to be destroyed by a nuclear war and 3) I was right next to a terrorist attack. So the combined PTSD from those three things has made me quite aware and prepared for something bad/difficult/shocking to happen. 

[Terabith]

The flu doesn’t require 20% of those infected to be hospitalized.  

[AnotherE]

3 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

But that literally is not different than the flu. Contagion doesn’t respect medical degrees.  A major reason hospitals stress over being able to meet demand during flu/rsv season is exactly bc they know it will hit staff too. 

Which is bad but even 5x the flu is still a low number to the overall population.

Over 900k were hospitalized and of those, over 80k died of the flu in the US alone during the ‘17/18 season, which is one of the worst we’ve had in a decade.  But yet no one ever suggested people should have unusually high anxiety about the flu then or since. Which does not mean no one cares either.  But people have died in my city of the flu this year. Things have been canceled bc too many were out with flu or key people had flu and couldn’t keep their commitments. 

Pointing out the fact to help keep things in perspective is not saying we don’t care about sick or dying people. 

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

 

How do we know that this won't be bigger than the flu? It's a new virus that is just beginning. We don't know what the next month will look like, much lessa year from now. I certainly hope you are right that this will be just a temporary thing.

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Murphy101 said:

Over 900k were hospitalized and of those, over 80k died of the flu in the US alone during the ‘17/18 season, which is one of the worst we’ve had in a decade.  But yet no one ever suggested people should have unusually high anxiety about the flu then or since. Which does not mean no one cares either.  But people have died in my city of the flu this year. Things have been canceled bc too many were out with flu or key people had flu and couldn’t keep their commitments. 

Pointing out the fact to help keep things in perspective is not saying we don’t care about sick or dying people. 

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

 

If 30-70% of a population of 300 million get this virus, that's 90 - 210 million sick, many of which won't even know it.  A few times in the other thread someone mentioned the low end is now thought to be 40%.

If 3% of those people die, that's  2.7- 6.3 million deaths in the next year in the US alone.  And that's right, our population is no longer 300 million, it's 325+.

[Murphy101]

Just now, lauraw4321 said:

In general, yes. I feel differently, I think, because 1) I went to an evangelical church that was very into the End Times, 2) I grew up expecting the world to be destroyed by a nuclear war and 3) I was right next to a terrorist attack. So the combined PTSD from those three things has made me quite aware and prepared for something bad/difficult/shocking to happen. 

ugh. Maybe that’s me. Enough bad things happen to you in life and you start to lose the ability to get worked up very easily.  It’s not that I have stopped caring about people.  It’s that I have my mental check list of what I can control to act from and everything I can’t control is... not on the list for me to act on. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t even with the media.  If we don’t trust the media, that’s fine go straight to usually reputable sources  

So I did go read the cdc, who, nih and honestly felt the reactions were just weird. Because yes, flu and rsv have already done more damage this year than covid19. But no one is freaking about those.

But people who think it’s all conspiracy - well if they don’t trust ANY source then that just extra begs the question as to why get hyped up.

One of many things that me think, “huh?”

1. People do get very concerned about the flu

2. We can get vaccinated for the flu, to prevent a lot of deaths. There is no vaccine for this as of yet. May be over a year until there is,. 

3. The only reason there are more deaths from flu right now is that there are not many cases yet of COVID-19. But the word there is YET. It is more contagious, and significantly more deadly, in the range of potentially 20 times more deadly. So something that spreads easily and kills people that frequently is yes, something to worry about. Absolutely. 

4. The economic impacts alone will be large, and possibly tremendous. That is another worry. I'm very concerned for the community at large if schoosl are closed, people can't get to work, can't then pay their bills, buy food, etc. 

5. i'm also personally very concerned for my parents both of whom are at high risk, especially my mother who has COPD and has had a portion of one lung removed. I dont' think it is unreasonable or panicking to be quite concerned about my loved ones. 

51 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I have seen nothing claiming this is worse than the flu.

Then you are missing something somewhere. Flu has a fatality rate of about 0.1%. They are estimating this has anywhere between 1.5 to 3.4% mortality. That is a huge difference. And again, no vaccine to limit the spread. And happenign on TOP of all the flu cases. 

[lauraw4321]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

ugh. Maybe that’s me. Enough bad things happen to you in life and you start to lose the ability to get worked up very easily.  It’s not that I have stopped caring about people.  It’s that I have my mental check list of what I can control to act from and everything I can’t control is... not on the list for me to act on. 

That's a very understandable reaction. I can tell you that part of my coping is to not be on social media, not watch or listen to the news (I listen to the "up first" podcast, which is 15 minutes of news every day). I focus on "what can I reasonably do." It's a judgment call, of course. I can avoid going to unregulated places (like grocery stores, malls, the bus, church). I haven't seen anything to indicate that keeping my kids home will make them safer. I can wash my hands. I can re-teach my kids how to wash. I can email their teachers to make sure they have the time to wash before lunch and snack. I can make sure we have enough food and medicine to last awhile if supply chains continue to be disrupted. My local grocery store was completely out of more or less everything from Sunday until Thursday. I wasn't worried because I had enough to eat. But it's not keeping me up at night. 

[Murphy101]

7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

The flu doesn’t require 20% of those infected to be hospitalized.  

Yes, actually it often has required that.  When broken down to ages, the percentage is even higher than that for elderly and immunocompromised.

 

[Pawz4me]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

Yes, actually it often has required that.  When broken down to ages, the percentage is even higher than that for elderly and immunocompromised.

 

Citation please?

[Murphy101]

8 minutes ago, AnotherE said:

How do we know that this won't be bigger than the flu? It's a new virus that is just beginning. We don't know what the next month will look like, much lessa year from now. I certainly hope you are right that this will be just a temporary thing.

How do we know anything? Time. There are new variations of all kinds of viruses all the time. The majority we don’t even think about. Viruses are notorious for mutating constantly. 

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, Murphy101 said:

Yes, actually it often has required that.  When broken down to ages, the percentage is even higher than that for elderly and immunocompromised.

 

 

Aside from once-a-century pandemic, I've never heard of a flu season with even close to a 20% hospitalization rate. This year, the percent of people in the US who have contracted the flu and needed hospitalization is 0.9%. Coronavirus hospitalization rates are 20 times that!

No hospital system in the world is set up to handle that many people who need respiratory support and isolation. This article summarizes why I'm concerned. 

https://medium.com/@amwren/forget-about-the-death-rate-this-is-why-you-should-be-worried-about-the-coronavirus-890fbf9c4de6

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Acadie

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Let's just hope this all makes people more aware of hand-washing, staying home when sick, covering their mouths when they cough or sneeze, protecting those with compromised immune systems and a general interest in disinfecting and cleaning public spaces and we'll all be better off. 🤞

I agree with you, but I am doubtful.

I work in a place (customer service call center) where most people don't have paid time off. You don't work, you don't get paid. There is also pressure from management to appear at work even when sick because "the queue is king" and having people out affects the ability of the place to manage calls. 

My work could easily be done at home but investing in the infrastructure so people can work at home - and the increased risk of compromising confidential customer information - make that a non-starter. (I am speaking specifically about my own experience - I understand that many customer service workers work at home.) 

There are loads of people who can't stay home when sick. Or, I should say, they could stay home, but staying home might cost them greatly.  

[Murphy101]

I’ve said I get that the great concern is hospitals being overwhelmed. Every year hospitals are overwhelmed just bc of the flu.

Last I knew none of us have any ability to do anything about that. Even staying home when sick won’t help much bc many are infectious before they have any symptoms. Other than the usual preparedness, there’s nothing to do.

So can anyone explain how getting upset and obsessing over the news is helpful?

Because I’m not seeing any benefit to anyone of that.

Looonnng before covid19, I’ve been a staunch advocate of universal healthcare, affordable medication, free college to those who can qualify (medical training is expensive!) and social/work policies that recognize the practicalities of family life being met in our society as a social good.

Id like to think maybe Covid19 would convince more people of this but I doubt it.

[Terabith]

7 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

Now this doesn’t either, to be fair.  It’s 20% of those tested, a significant portion of whom are the ones hit hard.  Estimates I’ve seen are 3-4x as many people infection but not severely symptomatic enough to require additional medical assistance, which would paint quite a different picture, which isn’t to say we should be unconcerned or unwary with our own health precautions. But the levels of severe illness in the general population are a picture that isn’t entirely clear yet, but is looking less alarming than it did even a week ago, with the progression we have seen now.

I would give that more credence, except China did a pretty thorough job of testing everyone, and they included those asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic folks in their statistics.  I mean, I know China isn't the best authority out there, but it seems to correspond with what we're seeing when we test contact traced people as well.   

[AnotherE]

Ugh, this topic is rubbing me the wrong way and I can't seem to stay away. I think it feels really dismissive to those who are being impacted right now. We are living with major disruptions in life with the hope of containing the virus. People are dying here. We do have reason to be concerned, if not flat out afraid. The minimizing and disregarding of this feels really, I don't know, snide maybe? Or is it just me overreacting?

Here is a quote from the University of Washington from a professor there: "Geoffrey Gottlieb, a professor with the division of allergy and infectious diseases, said the university is taking the potential threat very seriously as it has surpassed both SARS and MERS in terms of deaths and illnesses worldwide. “The scale of this epidemic is unprecedented,” he said."

I hpoe that helps people to see why we are so concerned.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by AnotherE
add more info

[marbel]

6 minutes ago, Plum said:

 

Which is why I added this in a later post. Probably missed it. 🙂

Re: masks - We have only a few masks at home (kept around for doing dusty work) right now, and I wouldn't want to use one to test it out, but I'm wondering how well that would work for people who are talking on the phone - interfering with headset, muffling voice?  I am not arguing, I just don't know. I have never seen anyone in our building wearing a mask. I can't remember if the last time I saw the dentist or hygienist (who are always masked) seemed like their voices were muffled.  When my husband wears a mask for working with insulation and such, his voice is muffled, but maybe it's the kind of mask. 

My employer is certainly not offering them to people and  as you said, they are nowhere to be found in stores, so it's a moot point right now anyway.

 

[AnotherE]

6 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

So, four kids died in our special needs group in the last two weeks from viruses. I buried one of my own children seven weeks ago (not due to a virus, admittedly). People die, all the time, from all sorts of causes.  People get sick and live with chronic diseases or conditions for YEARS, and all the disruptions and secondary infections and bankruptcy that causes.  If you think some of us less glued to the news feeds on this don’t understand these realities, I think you’re thinking too little of us

I added a quote above that is in our news from our university to hopefully illustrate what is happening here, but I'll add it again down here:

Geoffrey Gottlieb, a professor with the division of allergy and infectious diseases, said the university is taking the potential threat very seriously as it has surpassed both SARS and MERS in terms of deaths and illnesses worldwide. “The scale of this epidemic is unprecedented,” he said.

I have no idea if you are watching the news or not. I don't think it is required to have compassion for what other people are dealing with. I feel sad for anyone dealing with illness or death. I held my father's hand as he died from a lung disease, maybe that is why I don't dismiss and minimize other people's fears and pain, no matter how insignificant the numbers may seem to others.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

So I don't understand getting bent out of shape over other people's emotional responses. People's anxiety over life manifests in lots of ways. If they want to stay up watching the news or tracking cases, that's no business of mine. I don't actually do that -- my health depends on sleep, and my kids' well-being depends on my being positive and engaged throughout the day. I have a teen with special needs who has enough problems. He is not going to spend these years watching his mother wig out over current events. 

That said, I'm only concerned with others' emotions as far as they influence actual responses.

If I hear "I'm not concerned or making any changes," then I am now concerned because of you, lest you be one of the president's audience who would like to hear that you should consider this to be the flu, get a flu vax, go to work while sick, don't check for travel advisories, etc. because it's really no big deal and, by the way, totally contained!! If that's what you mean by "not concerned" then you are a public health hazard. Give a darn about others and get informed! Do your part, as your civic duty!

If I hear @Arctic Mama say, "I have no further emotional energy for this and I'm not hugely following? Maybe checking the daily updates from the CDC? Because we live in a state of preps already," then I really am not bothered that you aren't bothered...you are DOING the same things I am doing, for family and as a way of life away from home. 

If I hear "I'm stocking up a little, in case of two week quarantine," I really hope it's on a sane level and in response to what the CDC actually told us to do, a few weeks ago. I hope it's not hoarding. Obviously some people are hoarding, and the retail response to limit quantities is vastly overdue. I'm only just now starting to hear of gouging and panic buying being restricted some -- which must be done, if people can't restrain themselves. 

In short, I am sorry for those who are having mental health problems over this. I hope that those with anxiety and OCD are able to get some help, of whatever kind they need. I hope everyone will calmly follow the news and abide by the changing regulations, as those are made available, without....

a. losing sleep or function - live well while you are well!

b. failing to understand others' plights and therefore failing to observe their own responsibility to help contain the spread of disease, or

c. turning on each other to criticize each other's levels of anxiety or just curiosity. It doesn't matter if Karen wants to read and comment all day, if Karen has the time, while Susan has calmly checked her preps and checked the news and then shelved it for tomorrow. Let people emote and process how they will. Short of spreading panic or false information (which SHOULD be addressed), what really matters is what we do.

[sassenach]

If I could send my entire family, minus my special needs son, to a camp to catch this thing and get it over with, I would. I truly have no fear for anyone but him. Minor respiratory viruses hospitalize him. We just went through this last year with a virus that it is exceedingly rare to have complications with- he was in for 5 days with viral pneumonia.  I wish we could be relaxed about it but we just can’t. 
 

(Not that I’m doing ANY “prep” for this other than stocking up on sanitizer and bleach wipes)

[Pawz4me]

31 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

 

So can anyone explain how getting upset and obsessing over the news is helpful?

 

Who exactly has been doing that?

Or is that just your interpretation of what you're reading? If so, I'd be wary of "seeing" something that may not really be there. It's hard to know over the 'net.

[sassenach]

21 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

So, four kids died in our special needs group in the last two weeks from viruses. I buried one of my own children seven weeks ago (not due to a virus, admittedly). People die, all the time, from all sorts of causes.  People get sick and live with chronic diseases or conditions for YEARS, and all the disruptions and secondary infections and bankruptcy that causes.  If you think some of us less glued to the news feeds on this don’t understand these realities, I think you’re thinking too little of us

Gracious, it’s been a tough winter. We lost one of our own last week. I must admit I’m feeling shaken.  

[Murphy101]

10 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

So, four kids died in our special needs group in the last two weeks from viruses. I buried one of my own children seven weeks ago (not due to a virus, admittedly). People die, all the time, from all sorts of causes.  People get sick and live with chronic diseases or conditions for YEARS, and all the disruptions and secondary infections and bankruptcy that causes.  If you think some of us less glued to the news feeds on this don’t understand these realities, I think you’re thinking too little of us

Right? It’s really insulting for doing nothing more than pointing out that being afraid isn’t very helpful.

I’ve been on my bandwagon about the cost of education eventually costing our infrastructure in healthcare, and needing universal health and work policies for nearly 20 years exactly bc I’ve suffered the fallout of our systems failures and exactly because I have done the death watch with loved ones. Folks can kiss my ample right butt check saying I’m just too privledged and lucky to have this “luxury”. 

Pretty sure at least 4 people under my roof would risk death if they caught covid19. I carry hand sanitizer on me, the house is as stocked as I can get it for illness, and I’ve double downed the hand washing nagging.  Nothing they say on the news is going to make a difference to that. If my husband loses pay because his offices close? Yep. Nothing to do about that either.   
 

I suspect 6 months to a year from now we will see America’s only real universal healthcare hit peaks: Bankruptcy petitions. 
 

As for containment. There is not a goal of stopping this with containment. That is long out of the window with a virus like this. The only goal of the quarantines is to slow the progression so that the system can have a chance to meet the expected need better.  Eventually they will discard quarantines entirely bc it won’t serve that goal in a full outbreak area anymore.

[sassenach]

2 minutes ago, Plum said:

I can’t answer to that but the Asian population seems to get by just fine wearing masks all the time. 

I’ve been thinking of this so much. I wish they would stop telling people not to wear masks and instead tell all of us TO wear masks. No, it won’t keep a virus from floating into your lungs but wouldn’t reduce the number of droplets in the air and also keep people from touching their faces? 

[Murphy101]

4 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

It’s a terrible season to be sure, since November we are in double digits in the 1-12 year old crowd 😭

It has been a poopy 3 years. For example,  I’ve never been one to friend every single person on FB anyways so granted my friend list has never been more 200. But just yesterday I was going through my list because I hadn’t seen a post from a certain someone in a long time. And it hit me, 17 people on my friend list are now dead people. I made an entire category of friends just for all of them. Then I had to get up and go for a very long walk bc it just really hit me. 

[Murphy101]

6 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I’ve been thinking of this so much. I wish they would stop telling people not to wear masks and instead tell all of us TO wear masks. No, it won’t keep a virus from floating into your lungs but wouldn’t reduce the number of droplets in the air and also keep people from touching their faces? 

Have you seen people with masks behavior? They constantly touch their face to adjust it and they constantly touch the mask to stuff like their phones. So I don’t know that a mask is better than saying to cough/sneeze into shoulder/elbow? Maybe. But I had a dr appt yesterday for my health insurance PHA and let me tell you that if the mask wearers there are any indication then I’m skeptical. 

[AnotherE]

15 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

@AnotherE I’m well informed on this, and following it closely.  Still not too worked up over my normal level of awareness and caution. You can assume whatever you want, but if you think I’m being dismissive you’re not actually understanding what I’m saying with regard to managing the parts of this each person can control. But that’s on you, I’m trying to be measured, fair, and clear, and if that isn’t coming across I just have to shrug at some point in this discussion.

I don't think I've made any assumptions about you- that feels unfair. I simply answered your response to me. Maybe we are just talking past each other, I'm trying to convey what is measured, fair, and clear when you are at ground zero of an epidemic so other people can be prepared for what might come their way. Saying it's not a big deal or people are overreacting *is* minimizing and dismissive.