Am I the only one not overly worried about Covid19?

[Pen]

1 hour ago, Arctic Mama said:

I probably fit that pattern, though I don’t post on social media other than this forum and a few similar places.  But my guess based on my own experience is that a few life altering and life threatening and heart breaking clashes with mortality just make you shrug a bit, especially when you’ve lived it and the likelihood of this killing you (or your loved one) is so much lower than your actual experienced conditions or risks.  
 

 Speaking for myself, at some point you just accept that many things can kill you, and something eventually will.  Beyond basic precautions for your particular situation one must adopt a ‘life goes on until it doesn’t’ mentality or you’re drive yourself crazy.  It doesn’t mean denying reality or statistical risk at all so much as deciding what you can and can’t control and not spending too much mental energy on the parts which are beyond your personal control.  It’s risk management like so much else in life.  

 

I guess that I see it as being something beyond personal risk issues and more to do with trying to do my part not to add to medical systems collapse. Not to add to deaths of other vulnerable people...

I think if medical systems can be kept from collapse, economy problems can get sorted out, in medium term time frame, including possibly with innovative new businesses. 

I expect to likely lose at least one of my elder relatives to this, maybe I’ll die myself, though less likely.  

But I want to do what I can *not* to share our area’s probable local transmission with world beyond our area.  And what I can do, I hope, when the time comes, to get a mild case that I can handle at home and that won’t further burden the medical system or put people there at risk.  As well as personally hoping for a mild case for my own sake, and because I am the main adult upon whom some other people still depend for help. 

And I want to do what I can even as just one person, to help slow progress, to flatten case rate curve.  

 

I guess beyond that I feel that coming on here and urging personal lessening of voluntary travel or other behaviors that can help slow things down and flatten the curve might be a itself a tiny drop in bucket of help, because just a few people becoming aware and changing behavior can actually make a difference when summed up as many such small numbers of people changing in aggregate.  And I would rather see behavior changes happen voluntarily rather than at gun point.  

 

Although, maybe not.  Maybe it makes it worse if it just causes No Big Deal minded people to further harden their views and dig in their heels. Just further polarizes people instead of what I see being needed of coming together to prevent a disaster. 

🤷‍♀️

[Lady Florida.]

5 hours ago, QueenCat said:

 

One can have a well-balanced 401k and still be hit heavily. My husband and I are not foolish.

Yes to this. We have a well balanced 401k.  Well dh does, mine is an older style state retirement plan not tied to the markets. Dh wants to retire in a few years, once I can get Medicare and full Social Security. I'm sure we'll be taking a hit and he might have to work longer, possibly until he's 70. He's so tired and has wanted to retire for several years but our health care system is such that I need him to work so I can still be insured. 

[Kassia]

17 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I guess that I see it as being something beyond personal risk issues and more to do with trying to do my part not to add to medical systems collapse. Not to add to deaths of other vulnerable people...

 

 

This is my feeling, too.  I'm not concerned about my own health, but I don't want to do anything to endanger others.  The only loved one I am concerned about is my adult son with asthma.  He's alone and lives three hours away.

[SKL]

I've seen a considerable range of rational people re what they are willing to risk and not.  And that reflects normal life for the most part.  Some people already consider international travel etc. to be above their personal risk threshold.  Others have done much riskier things and plan to continue.  Nobody, however, wants to be the vector for anyone vulnerable to get sick.  Again, this is no different from not wanting to risk giving your aging parent or your baby niece a flu bug etc.  These are not new concerns.

To the extent some people were too ignorant to take care for vulnerable people prior to this big fuss, this may have the side effect of reducing cases / deaths from the flu etc.  That would be great since the flu is likely to kill a lot more people than the coronavirus.

[Terabith]

52 minutes ago, SKL said:

I've seen a considerable range of rational people re what they are willing to risk and not.  And that reflects normal life for the most part.  Some people already consider international travel etc. to be above their personal risk threshold.  Others have done much riskier things and plan to continue.  Nobody, however, wants to be the vector for anyone vulnerable to get sick.  Again, this is no different from not wanting to risk giving your aging parent or your baby niece a flu bug etc.  These are not new concerns.

To the extent some people were too ignorant to take care for vulnerable people prior to this big fuss, this may have the side effect of reducing cases / deaths from the flu etc.  That would be great since the flu is likely to kill a lot more people than the coronavirus.

You keep saying that the flu is going to kill a lot more people than Coronavirus.  And I really, really pray you’re right.  But if it gets widespread community transmission spread throughout the United States, that’s not likely going to be true long term.  

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

I probably fit that pattern, though I don’t post on social media other than this forum and a few similar places.  But my guess based on my own experience is that a few life altering and life threatening and heart breaking clashes with mortality just make you shrug a bit, especially when you’ve lived it and the likelihood of this killing you (or your loved one) is so much lower than your actual experienced conditions or risks.  
 

 Speaking for myself, at some point you just accept that many things can kill you, and something eventually will.  Beyond basic precautions for your particular situation one must adopt a ‘life goes on until it doesn’t’ mentality or you’ll drive yourself crazy.  It doesn’t mean denying reality or statistical risk at all so much as deciding what you can and can’t control and not spending too much mental energy on the parts which are beyond your personal control.  It’s risk management like so much else in life.  

I think there is a difference between accepting the actual risk as what it is, and just not being able or willing to devote much energy to worry, knwong you are already doing all you can to prevent it, like you are doing, and denying the facts while spreading outright misinformation about the risks, which many are doing (not you). The first I totally understand. The second can cause great harm. 

[Paige]

I think the economic impact will be less if we can actually keep our health care system from being overwhelmed. It's not going to be good for anyone's 401Ks if we aren't proactive and this looks like Italy. 

[katilac]

UNO is skipping the test day and going straight to all online classes indefinitely. 

[EmseB]

On 3/10/2020 at 12:35 PM, Pawz4me said:

Regarding the situation in Italy and thinking it can't or won't happen here --

 

 

I hesitate to get into an info war since these screen shots from Twitter have already been declared as facts, and heaven knows I am not an expert, but I have found several studies and articles disputing these panic-inducing statistics. The US has far more critical care/ICU beds per capita without even flexing for a surge. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/

The doctors I follow on twitter are taking precautions for their elderly parents and at risk family members. They are also very reassuring about the state of surge capacity in US hospitals and lack of chaos during emergencies and high casualty events in an ER.

[SKL]

Comparing it to the flu in any way is not minimizing coronavirus.  The point is that flu is seriously deadly for many people.  We have this concern  for our vulnerable people every year.  Including right now.  There is more than one reason to take care.  How is that minimizing the coronavirus?  Or is the problem that we are saying these things can actually help more than (a) panicking or (b) attacking people whom we love to attack?

[gardenmom5]

the gov has banned 'gatherings' of more than 250 people.  (businesses, etc. are still open.)

seattle schools are closing for at least two weeks.  they aren't doing online school as not all students have access to computers.  as are a few of the surrounding school districts.  (incl. mine.)  many other details are still being worked out.

church was cancelled last week with a "one week at a time" . . . . I knew this weekend would be worse than last weekend.

[gardenmom5]

4 minutes ago, SKL said:

Comparing it to the flu in any way is not minimizing coronavirus.  The point is that flu is seriously deadly for many people.  We have this concern  for our vulnerable people every year.  Including right now.  There is more than one reason to take care.  How is that minimizing the coronavirus?  Or is the problem that we are saying these things can actually help more than (a) panicking or (b) attacking people whom we love to attack?

there is one big difference I've read from the warnings from health care providers.

pneumonia from flu is a complication.  this virus attacks the lungs.

[Happy2BaMom]

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

Comparing it to the flu in any way is not minimizing coronavirus.  The point is that flu is seriously deadly for many people.  We have this concern  for our vulnerable people every year.  Including right now.  There is more than one reason to take care.  How is that minimizing the coronavirus?  Or is the problem that we are saying these things can actually help more than (a) panicking or (b) attacking people whom we love to attack?

 

It's minimizing coronavirus when you (& others) keep raising the point that the flu has killed far more people while ignoring the fact that: 1) Covid has only been around for a few(ish) months, 2) has, up until the last 4-8 weeks, been confined to small (relatively speaking) geographic area, 3) has a *much* higher fatality rate than the flu (flu = 0.1% fatality, the best estimates on Covid are 0.4% - as high as 2.4%....but even 0.4% is 4 x/high), 4) might just keep going round and round, given that some people appear to get re-infected (although, we all hope, it will die back with time), 5) appears to be much more infectious than the flu, AND with many infected people being asymptomatic, makes it far easier to infect vulnerable populations, and 6) has the potential to disrupt the global supply chains that are so essential to the ways modern societies operate.

IOW, the flu and Covid are really not comparable and so the "well, the flu is worse" case does come across as dismissive. We don't know yet how many people Covid will kill. It hasn't been out long enough to know.

And I personally am the furthest thing from panic over this virus. I've purchased nothing extra (probably stupid), I haven't altered any of me or my family's activities (ditto), and Covid is in my state. But even I can see that the potential risks and impact of Covid are much, much higher than the flu.

 

[katilac]

So grossed out, y'all! 

I've been working at two different public schools the last nine weeks. I teach final period at one, which means the cleaning staff is arriving as we leave. Today they told us they were going to be wiping the desks down, 'yeah, they told us to start doing that like twice a week.' 

So it was just never done before? Eww! Also, I'm pretty sure twice a week is not protocol for a global pandemic. 

[melmichigan]

Dr. Brian Monaham, the attending physician of Congress and the Supreme Court expects 70-150 million people in the US to become infected with COVID-19.  Take a second and do the math.  I'm not panicking, but definitely going to start taking more precautions then we already do for the flu.

[Bootsie]

53 minutes ago, Happy2BaMom said:

 

It's minimizing coronavirus when you (& others) keep raising the point that the flu has killed far more people while ignoring the fact that: 1) Covid has only been around for a few(ish) months, 2) has, up until the last 4-8 weeks, been confined to small (relatively speaking) geographic area, 3) has a *much* higher fatality rate than the flu (flu = 0.1% fatality, the best estimates on Covid are 0.4% - as high as 2.4%....but even 0.4% is 4 x/high), 4) might just keep going round and round, given that some people appear to get re-infected (although, we all hope, it will die back with time), 5) appears to be much more infectious than the flu, AND with many infected people being asymptomatic, makes it far easier to infect vulnerable populations, and 6) has the potential to disrupt the global supply chains that are so essential to the ways modern societies operate.

IOW, the flu and Covid are really not comparable and so the "well, the flu is worse" case does come across as dismissive. We don't know yet how many people Covid will kill. It hasn't been out long enough to know.

And I personally am the furthest thing from panic over this virus. I've purchased nothing extra (probably stupid), I haven't altered any of me or my family's activities (ditto), and Covid is in my state. But even I can see that the potential risks and impact of Covid are much, much higher than the flu.

 

At the same time, China has had about 3000 deaths in 50 days.  If China continues to see that number of deaths for the entire rest of the year, that would put the number of deaths in China in one year from Coronavirus a bit over 20,000.  For a population four times a big as the US they would see about as many coronavirus deaths in one year that US has seen from the flu in about five months.   

[Paige]

1 hour ago, EmseB said:

I hesitate to get into an info war since these screen shots from Twitter have already been declared as facts, and heaven knows I am not an expert, but I have found several studies and articles disputing these panic-inducing statistics. The US has far more critical care/ICU beds per capita without even flexing for a surge. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3551445/

The doctors I follow on twitter are taking precautions for their elderly parents and at risk family members. They are also very reassuring about the state of surge capacity in US hospitals and lack of chaos during emergencies and high casualty events in an ER.

Not to be argumentative but the article doesn't include Italy in the chart and the chart uses numbers per 100,000 and the tweet shows numbers per 1000. It shows we have much more ICU beds than Spain and UK, but I don't see numbers for Italy which could be better (or worse). 

It says USA has 20-31.7 beds per 100,000, which is a scale of 10 worse than 2.8 per thousand unless I'm too tired to do math right now. 

I think someone's numbers are off because that is a big discrepancy unless the numbers are all meaningless because of differences in sampling.

[Bootsie]

16 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

Dr. Brian Monaham, the attending physician of Congress and the Supreme Court expects 70-150 million people in the US to become infected with COVID-19.  Take a second and do the math.  I'm not panicking, but definitely going to start taking more precautions then we already do for the flu.

I have seen Dr. Monahan's estimates widely reported and that he quoted to sources.  But, I can't find what those sources are.  Nor, can I find what time period he thinks this will occur over.  To me, there is a big difference if this number is expected by summer time or over the next few years and how we should respond is very different.

[Pen]

 

1 minute ago, Paige said:

It says USA has 20-31.7 beds per 100,000,

 

At the lower end, or maybe somewhat lower yet, That’s probably about accurate in my local region (County plus some surrounding area) for adult ICU beds.  There are a lot more NICU beds and also some pediatric ICU beds.  Neither of which will probably be as much needed for CV19, but presumably will continue to be in high demand from other causes. 

Our area has tended to rely on being able to send excess cases to hospitals in the bigger Portland metro region, (or iirc even sometimes to Seattle which is considered to have the most advanced heath care for our wider PNW region ), but as those areas are probably even more likely to face being swamped before we are, I doubt that will work in this situation. 

In addition to number of beds per population, I expect that the distribution of those beds geographically will make a big difference. I think there are parts of the country where there may be many hospitals to choose from within a small distance (such as New York City) and other areas where the nearest (and perhaps only for a large area) hospital may be a 2 or 3 hour drive. Maybe more. 

 

[Paige]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It think the numbers are meaningless because there is a difference between “hospital beds” and “icu beds”.  

Probably right. 

[Pen]

32 minutes ago, katilac said:

So grossed out, y'all! 

I've been working at two different public schools the last nine weeks. I teach final period at one, which means the cleaning staff is arriving as we leave. Today they told us they were going to be wiping the desks down, 'yeah, they told us to start doing that like twice a week.' 

So it was just never done before? Eww! Also, I'm pretty sure twice a week is not protocol for a global pandemic. 

 

Self help? Kids to do it before settling down to work? Could just be some soap and water if chemicals a problem. Or a disinfectant wipe for greater ease? 

Probably a few parents would be willing to chip in for supplies ?

[katilac]

8 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Self help? Kids to do it before settling down to work? Could just be some soap and water if chemicals a problem. Or a disinfectant wipe for greater ease? 

Probably a few parents would be willing to chip in for supplies ?

Half of them show up without paper or pencils, so I don't think parents are going to chip in for supplies. 

Tomorrow's my last day. Imma try not to touch anything 😂

Edited to add that I'm not leaving my students behind with no concern, lol. I'm going to call the main office (of the district, not the school). 

Edited March 12, 2020 by katilac

[Hilltopmom]

I’ve been trying to get parents of my 4th grade class to send  in Clorox wipes and tissues for a month. No luck.
The school does not provide them and students aren’t allowed to use them. We are not supposed to have them but admin will look the other way.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

About the schools -- I have been hearing stories locally, for several years, about students not being allowed soap in the bathrooms, or time to wash their hands before they eat. Reasons given are costs and the fact that the children make messes.

In the mid-century modern era, our teachers supervised us in the proper use of soap. I'm sorry life is different now but I'm not sure "I" could focus on standardized test practice while knowing that my little students don't even know how to wash their hands, and won't be doing so before lunch. 

While I'm doing the "back in my day," here's a story: When I was in the fourth grade, our school was renovated and expanded. There was some sort of problem with the timeline, so it was decided that the children would eat lunch in their classrooms for about three months, while the cafeteria was being completed. Before we were walked in straight lines down to pick up our box lunches, to bring back to the classroom, we cleaned our classroom. We helped our teacher wash all the desktops, and she also wiped the doorknobs and backs of chairs and other heavily-touched surfaces. Then we covered our desks with a clean portion of contact paper, to have a clean, disposable surface for lunch that would also protect the desk from spills. THEN, on our way down to pick up our lunches, we stopped at the bathrooms and our teacher supervised handwashing. Got our lunches, went back to our room and ate, tidied up (and the teacher vacuumed obvious crumbs), and then went outdoors for a proper recess.  

Sigh.

[Pen]

53 minutes ago, Hilltopmom said:

I’ve been trying to get parents of my 4th grade class to send  in Clorox wipes and tissues for a month. No luck.
The school does not provide them and students aren’t allowed to use them. We are not supposed to have them but admin will look the other way.

 

So what are they supposed to do?

Blow their  noses into bare hands and wipe off on their jeans? 

Is there a teacher’s union or anything?

this seems like a real health a safety union type issue 

the kids may do fine, but teachers would be higher risk because of age at least

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

So grossed out, y'all! 

I've been working at two different public schools the last nine weeks. I teach final period at one, which means the cleaning staff is arriving as we leave. Today they told us they were going to be wiping the desks down, 'yeah, they told us to start doing that like twice a week.' 

So it was just never done before? Eww! Also, I'm pretty sure twice a week is not protocol for a global pandemic. 

Schools I've worked in, in two different districts, desks, tables, computer keyboards, and other surfaces were only ever cleaned if teacher cleaned them (or had students clean their own desk).  And it was only done if teachers provided cleaning supplies to do it.  

No time is allotted for handwashing, and many bathrooms don't have soap.  

ETA:  The teacher I student taught under was considered kind of weird in that she got a ton of lysol wipes and had kids wipe down desks, tables, etc on Fridays in a first grade class.  But that was the only cleaning that it got, and most classrooms did not get it.  She was considered a germaphobe.  

Edited March 12, 2020 by Terabith

[Hilltopmom]

12 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

So what are they supposed to do?

Blow their  noses into bare hands and wipe off on their jeans? 

Is there a teacher’s union or anything?

this seems like a real health a safety union type issue 

the kids may do fine, but teachers would be higher risk because of age at least

Oh, tissues are allowed, but not Clorox wipes. But school doesn’t provide them.

the teachers buy Both of them all with our own money if parents won’t send them in.
it’s the wipes that are not allowed because they are not approved “safe” cleaners.

 

 

[Happy2BaMom]

10 hours ago, Bootsie said:

At the same time, China has had about 3000 deaths in 50 days.  If China continues to see that number of deaths for the entire rest of the year, that would put the number of deaths in China in one year from Coronavirus a bit over 20,000.  For a population four times a big as the US they would see about as many coronavirus deaths in one year that US has seen from the flu in about five months.   

10 hours ago, Bootsie said:

 

*If*....falls under “we don’t know”, which I clearly stated. 

The reason China has had the success they’ve had with Covid is that they locked *everything* down - they quarantined 50 million people and shut down entire cities for weeks - things that the “don’t worry, be happy” crowd in the US labels as “overreacting”. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Happy2BaMom

[East Coast Sue]

Nm

Edited March 12, 2020 by East Coast Sue

[Matryoshka]

I don't think I've seen this article linked here before.  It's got a scary headline, but it's very rational and clear at explaining the numbers (lots of charts!), exponential growth, how/why China and some other countries have managed to contain it, and how things will be very different (read: much, much, much worse) here if we don't start doing those things today.   This whole thing "well, it was over in China in X amount of time, so that's how long we can expect this to last" holds no water if we just keep fa-la-la-ing around...

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

[vonfirmath]

14 hours ago, Bootsie said:

I have seen Dr. Monahan's estimates widely reported and that he quoted to sources.  But, I can't find what those sources are.  Nor, can I find what time period he thinks this will occur over.  To me, there is a big difference if this number is expected by summer time or over the next few years and how we should respond is very different.

 

Over what time period is going to depend on what we do NOW. If we quarantine, these could be over 12-18 months. If everyone goes about their regular business, it could be much much faster.

[vonfirmath]

27 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I don't think I've seen this article linked here before.  It's got a scary headline, but it's very rational and clear at explaining the numbers (lots of charts!), exponential growth, how/why China and some other countries have managed to contain it, and how things will be very different (read: much, much, much worse) here if we don't start doing those things today.   This whole thing "well, it was over in China in X amount of time, so that's how long we can expect this to last" holds no water if we just keep fa-la-la-ing around...

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca

 

This is the article I found last night that has turned me into a "Cancel it all NOW" proponent. (I was thinking it was a good idea before but not sure if it was the right decision or if we could wait and see. We don't have time to wait and see!)

 

[Pen]

27 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

It's interesting how it was pointed out earlier in the thread that people are free to not read threads/posts if the information is causing them anxiety or panic, and yet people deliberately share information in a thread about not being over concerned, specifically to try to make people more concerned.  

 

Within my family, we have no travel planned now or in the near future.  We have no events to go to or that we are planning to go to in the near future.....one thing about being frugal is that we try not to spend a lot on entertainment lol.  We don't have daily lessons anywhere.  We don't go to church.  My girls are in scouts, but they only meet once every other week and our troop is small.  We have a cookie booth this Saturday, it's the last one.   Only one person in our family goes to work every day, no one goes to school.  Aside from the one person who goes to work every day, the rest of us spend approximately half the days of each week going no where and on the days we do go somewhere, it's usually just to the store to pick up milk or dish detergent or something.  We just don't have all that much interaction with people.  For us, staying at home, playing in the back yard IS "fa la la la-ing around."

So, please, tell me, since regular hand washing is already SOP, as it should be for everyone, and since we already stay home quite a bit and have no plans for travel or gathering in large groups and none of us are sick or showing any symptoms of anything....what else are we, meaning the 5 of us here in my house, supposed to do?  Stay home like we usually do and just become more overly concerned as we watch our stockpile of tp get smaller?  Should DH just stop going to work?

 

It sounds like you are already basically doing the right things!

It is possible that a store trip once per week to get weekly groceries would be better than several times per week (you’d encounter only who is there on one day rather than several). But that may not be feasible if you have lots of milk drinkers compared to fridge space. 

And eta, umm, you might also want to start growing some fresh vegetables, as part of playing in back yard.  

Edited March 12, 2020 by Pen

[Pen]

13 hours ago, Hilltopmom said:

Oh, tissues are allowed, but not Clorox wipes. But school doesn’t provide them.

the teachers buy Both of them all with our own money if parents won’t send them in.
it’s the wipes that are not allowed because they are not approved “safe” cleaners.

 

 

 

What cleaners are “safe”?

[Hilltopmom]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

 

What cleaners are “safe”?

Whatever is on the “non toxic approved for schools” list. Stuff only the custodians are allowed to use.
 

[Mbelle]

We are still no more scared of coronavirus than we were.  Dh had a Remicade infusion this morning and we are just as careful now as we have been for months.  Still hoping our flight to ireland leaves next Friday.  If I lose money I will lose my f'ing sh?t.  I'm so mad at the pandering governmetn I could spit.  Clearly now he's bombing Iraq  in desperation. ByeDon! Most people have nothing to fear with this virus and are impacting freedom and liberty and really it could last years until a revolution.  We live with compromised health daily.  We lost everything 10 years ago and now we plan to live in celebration.  I'm willing to go to jail for civil disobediance over this.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Just now, Mbelle said:

We are still no more scared of coronavirus than we were.  Dh had a Remicade infusion this morning and we are just as careful now as we have been for months.  Still hoping our flight to ireland leaves next Friday.  If I lose money I will lose my f'ing sh?t.  I'm so mad at the pandering governmetn I could spit.  Clearly now he's bombing Iraq  in desperation. ByeDon! Most people have nothing to fear with this virus and are impacting freedom and liberty and really it could last years until a revolution.  We live with compromised health daily.  We lost everything 10 years ago and now we plan to live in celebration.  I'm willing to go to jail for civil disobediance over this.

 

You do not sound at all well.

[Mbelle]

Just now, Lang Syne Boardie said:

 

You do not sound at all well.

Grasping for straws ?

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Mbelle said:

We are still no more scared of coronavirus than we were.  Dh had a Remicade infusion this morning and we are just as careful now as we have been for months.  Still hoping our flight to ireland leaves next Friday.  If I lose money I will lose my f'ing sh?t.  I'm so mad at the pandering governmetn I could spit.  Clearly now he's bombing Iraq  in desperation. ByeDon! Most people have nothing to fear with this virus and are impacting freedom and liberty and really it could last years until a revolution.  We live with compromised health daily.  We lost everything 10 years ago and now we plan to live in celebration.  I'm willing to go to jail for civil disobediance over this.

So the people of Ireland should have to risk having you or others infect them so you can celebrate? I guess I get that you don't care if you and your husband catch it, but I sure do care if my mom catches it and dies, which she would. 

[SKL]

Today my 13yos wanted to cook dinner, and they needed to go buy what they wanted to cook.  I drove them to the grocery and sent them in with my credit card.  A long time later they came out with stories to tell.  It was very crowded and people were being nasty to each other (very unusual here).  One lady said she needed to stock up because she wanted to be surrounded by food when she died.  Someone else said "we're all going to die."  It was an educational but disturbing experience for my kids.

[Kassia]

My son also went to the store last night.  He said it was crazy - no carts left, long lines, people with overloaded carts or even two carts, empty shelves, but everyone was civil and friendly.  He decided it wasn't worth waiting so long so he left empty-handed.  He was glad he went to witness it, but I wasn't crazy about him exposing himself for nothing.

[Mbelle]

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

So the people of Ireland should have to risk having you or others infect them so you can celebrate? I guess I get that you don't care if you and your husband catch it, but I sure do care if my mom catches it and dies, which she would. 

 I see it as contributing to the irish economy which is heavily tourism dependent and not giving in to misfounded fear.  Our flight is still scheduled and they are not giving refunds.  Our hotels and B&B are also not issuing deposti refunds so my feeling is they very much want us there.  We personally suffered financial devastation in 08/09, but the whole of Ireland was devastated during that time, so they understand what happens when the economy tumbles and so so do we.  They have closed  the Library at Trinity (and they said they will issue a refund, but so far it hasn't materialized), but everything else we are doing is hiking and outdoor activities, so we will have to do the library on a futur trip as they are reopening it the day we depart.  I have always been fascinated with the Book of Kells and so I'm super bummed.

The economy will more than likely kill us if people stay fearful and don't work. We need insurance from the job to pay for the $3K meds.  I'm 100% for sick people staying home and if the immunocompromised want to stay home they certainly shouldn't feel bad about that and they shouldn't be penalized. 

Right now we are going to have to pay for DD Dorm and her Meal ticket while they close her University and she is not allowed to stay there. So we will be paying for her food and board 2X, because we will be providing that at home.  I plan to ask for a refund, but I'm pretty sure they aren't gonig to give it back.  This is the kind of thing that adds up and makes it hard on famlies.  It doesn't seem like a big deal, but actually it does rob us.  I feel like we all need to keep level heads and make sure we are not being taken advantage of financially during a time of fear.  

[Murphy101]

I don’t care if you go to Ireland as long as you are also thinking of how you will handle being stuck there for 2-4 weeks should things change. That possibility is what would make me cancel.  I have a trip in May that I’m waiting to see how things go.  A friend just had her 12 day pilgrimage in Spain canceled but she’s getting a total refund on the entire trip and plans to reschedule for later in the year  

I hear you on the university costs. My dd18 goes to a very small university, so I don’t see them closing up anyways. I think her biggest class is something like 18 students. And I’m not holding my breath for a dorm/food card refund.  Her school is painfully tight economically as it is.  I’d be happy  to accept the remainder of the school year as a credit on the next semester. And I’m glad the schools are reducing face to face so I can bring her home.  For her, so far it looks like spring break will be 2 weeks instead of one  before they will cave and go to online.  And I’m fine with all that.

Our overall spending hasn’t changed much.  I’ve stocked up like I always do for what it flu hits the house and then I bought one more of everything than I would for that.  I ordered pizza at Costco last night without any worry at all.  I’m at the dr office right this minute bc I’m due for a reorder of a 4 month supply of all our meds.  I would have done that anyways. But I wouldn’t have insisted on getting the first appt of the day precovid19. 

I tell ya the most disturbing thing about Covid19 is how many businesses are emailing and posting their new Covid19 cleaning practices. I mean that is good I guess but wth? There’s shouldn’t be anything different about their cleaning practices. What exactly were they not bothering to clean at all or properly clean before?!😷 ewwww

[I talk to the trees]

30 minutes ago, Mbelle said:

 I see it as contributing to the irish economy which is heavily tourism dependent and not giving in to misfounded fear.  Our flight is still scheduled and they are not giving refunds.  Our hotels and B&B are also not issuing deposti refunds so my feeling is they very much want us there.  We personally suffered financial devastation in 08/09, but the whole of Ireland was devastated during that time, so they understand what happens when the economy tumbles and so so do we.  They have closed  the Library at Trinity (and they said they will issue a refund, but so far it hasn't materialized), but everything else we are doing is hiking and outdoor activities, so we will have to do the library on a futur trip as they are reopening it the day we depart.  I have always been fascinated with the Book of Kells and so I'm super bummed.

The economy will more than likely kill us if people stay fearful and don't work. We need insurance from the job to pay for the $3K meds.  I'm 100% for sick people staying home and if the immunocompromised want to stay home they certainly shouldn't feel bad about that and they shouldn't be penalized. 

Right now we are going to have to pay for DD Dorm and her Meal ticket while they close her University and she is not allowed to stay there. So we will be paying for her food and board 2X, because we will be providing that at home.  I plan to ask for a refund, but I'm pretty sure they aren't gonig to give it back.  This is the kind of thing that adds up and makes it hard on famlies.  It doesn't seem like a big deal, but actually it does rob us.  I feel like we all need to keep level heads and make sure we are not being taken advantage of financially during a time of fear.  

I “hear” a lot of anger in your posts about the money you might have lost, and I am sorry that you are experiencing such distress over the financial repercussions of this situation! Try to remember that your fellow boardies are not telling you not be frustrated or angry. Rather, they are expressing their own frustrations and fears that they will lose something precious to them, too- perhaps an elderly relative, an immune compromised friend, or even a child with underlying health conditions! Money comes and money goes, but nothing can ever replace a human life. And those of us who are able have a responsibility to do everything we can to prevent as many of those losses as possible! (Keep calm and flatten the curve! 🙂)
 

I also suspect that once the dust starts to settle, many colleges will offer some form of compensation to those who have paid room and board fees. It will all have to go through various stages of committees and approvals, but it will probably happen eventually, so hang in there! At least for now, my dd is rejoicing in the fact that she gets another couple of weeks away from the “mostly disgusting options at the dining hall” ! 
 

[vonfirmath]

13 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t care if you go to Ireland as long as you are also thinking of how you will handle being stuck there for 2-4 weeks should things change. That possibility is what would make me cancel.  I have a trip in May that I’m waiting to see how things go.  A friend just had her 12 day pilgrimage in Spain canceled but she’s getting a total refund on the entire trip and plans to reschedule for later in the year  

😷 ewwww

 

My sister changed her travel plans when she realized she'd be stuck for two weeks in quarantine once she got there. 

I was very thankful as I didn't want her going.

[SKL]

20 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

@Murphy101 I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING?!  like gee, wish you’d cared about cleaning practices always??

Maybe they did or didn't, but I think they feel like the public needs to be reassured either way.

Honestly I would not be surprised if the overall US death rate decreases with all this new attention on reasonable, sustainable hygiene, cleaning, and sick distance practices.

[Murphy101]

I was at Costco yesterday and the produce was almost untouched. I bought a couple bags of clementines and a bag of lemons.  While in line I joked to dh that I predict scurvy will be the next big illness to sweep the nation due to lack of fresh fruits being bought and all the vitC supplements being sold out. And a lady behind us gasped and sent her husband for some clementines and lemons.  😆🤭

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Maybe they did or didn't, but I think they feel like the public needs to be reassured either way.

Honestly I would not be surprised if the overall US death rate decreases with all this new attention on reasonable, sustainable hygiene, cleaning, and sick distance practices.

There are over 25,000 hospitalizations each year in the US for salmonella poisoning (and over 1 million illnesses).  I recently walked by a café on a university campus that has since closed over coronavirus fears and noticed dried milk on the steam wand on the espresso machine and milk sitting out on the counter uncovered.  

I think much of the advertising about cleanliness is that these firms want to send their advertising emails and keep their name in front of the consumer, but think that it would come across as materialistic and uncaring to advertise that people should come buy their things.  So, it is a way to "advertise" without looking like it.

[Tenaj]

31 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

I still need to hit Meijer for some other fresh stuff, but there's no way I am going to bring the kids there and brave another mad house like that.  I will just try to get up and out the door by 6am tomorrow.  

On the plus side, apparently cheese, grapes, carrots, and tortillas are not on the panic buy list, so I was able to get the deals I was going for lol.

 

I was at Meijer yesterday morning at 6am and it was empty -lol!  I mean of people!  Shelves were full.  That will be my shopping time until this is over.  Did get the bright idea to make a pickup order for Sam's to avoid going in but first pickup available is 8am on Monday so I'm going to wait a bit on that in case I need to add anything to it.

[SKL]

I for one am not stockpiling.  We have food in our cupboards like we always do - usually stuff people bought because it seemed like a good idea at the time, but never felt like eating it.  But if the panic makes it necessary, we could eat that and we'll see how long it lasts.

I don't think it will be necessary ... but who knows with human nature.  I don't feel that adding to the current grocery panic is the right thing to do.

Thankfully, we don't have any medications or other health-related products that our lives depend on.  I hope the utilities continue to work, because running water and electricity would be hard to do without.