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4 minutes ago, HSMWB said:

I do find this interesting, and am NOT ‘anti-mask’, but at the same time, how is a ‘hospital outbreak’ determined to be ‘community spread’??  Especially if said hospital is in a place that has basically 100% masking compliance and has had public masking mandates for months. Does this mean that people who work at the hospital are not masking outside of work??  Or that it is just coincidence that these people work together?  I’m not exactly sure what the definition of what a ‘hospital outbreak’ or what ‘community speak’ is based on contact tracing.  I only put these in quotes because it seems like they are being used as a very specific term in this instance. 

I’d be skeptical about it.  In Victoria here they kept blaming the hospital cases on community spread even when the rates in medical staff were significantly higher than the rest of the state.  I think they didn’t want to admit they needed to do fit testing on the masks. 

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DS got home 3 hours ago!  ❤️❤️

Update-  my youngest is not only short of breath, coughing, dizzy, nausaues, and with headache-  she is also confused.  I called our doctor and talked with him and she is going to be going to the ER.

Thought I'd post a pic of my dd, getting ready to spend another day in a coronavirus triage tent!  

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15 minutes ago, HSMWB said:

I do find this interesting, and am NOT ‘anti-mask’, but at the same time, how is a ‘hospital outbreak’ determined to be ‘community spread’??  Especially if said hospital is in a place that has basically 100% masking compliance and has had public masking mandates for months. Does this mean that people who work at the hospital are not masking outside of work??  Or that it is just coincidence that these people work together?  I’m not exactly sure what the definition of what a ‘hospital outbreak’ or what ‘community speak’ is based on contact tracing.  I only put these in quotes because it seems like they are being used as a very specific term in this instance. 

 

9 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’d be skeptical about it.  In Victoria here they kept blaming the hospital cases on community spread even when the rates in medical staff were significantly higher than the rest of the state.  I think they didn’t want to admit they needed to do fit testing on the masks. 

Well, I am not a contact tracer or a reporter who reported on this. But the news story said that the origin (based on contact tracing) was from hospital personnel who brought it into the hospital from home. It didn’t say how. It also said that a subgroup of six people on a different unit of the hospital have Covid from an unknown origin. But beyond that I don’t know the details of this particular hospital’s PPE and Covid procedures. It’s not one of the hospitals where my husband has worked. And it’s not one of the highest rated local hospitals. 

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14 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

“Denmark's health minister said around half of 783 infected Danes in Northern Denmark, home to a large number of mink farms, had been infected with a virus strain stemming from the farms.“
 

also this is kind of worrying!

 

Yes. It is.

Also, What about other rodents that live where there are humans like mice and rats, as well as pet rodents?

 

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15 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

Well, I am not a contact tracer or a reporter who reported on this. But the news story said that the origin (based on contact tracing) was from hospital personnel who brought it into the hospital from home. It didn’t say how. It also said that a subgroup of six people on a different unit of the hospital have Covid from an unknown origin. But beyond that I don’t know the details of this particular hospital’s PPE and Covid procedures. It’s not one of the hospitals where my husband has worked. And it’s not one of the highest rated local hospitals. 

Yep.  Either way we know masks work but they don’t work perfectly.  We need to do the other measures as well.  

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14 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Because at least for me it’s hard to see how rioting, protesting, voting in person any of those activities aren’t going to increase spread.  Indoors, outdoors, masked, unmasked, crowds just seem like a bad idea right now.  And at this point what are they really hoping to achieve?  Nothing can be changed about the votes, they’ve been cast, they need to be counted so protesting won’t change that.  It just adds to the danger/sense of instability for everyone.

 

 

They have been out protesting anyway since the whole George Floyd protests started, so I am not sure it particularly increases CV19 numbers, and our state is a mail voting state, so in person voting would not have been part of our case spike, 

but shift to more violence, breaking windows of businesses already in difficulties due to lockdowns etc  certainly adds sense of danger/instability     

I have extended family in medicine in the area and they are fine, but going to/from work seemed sketchy so they have been staying at their medical center   They are in fields that don’t much handle hospital level CV19 but do potentially handle some riot injury type issues. 

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27 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

 

Well, I am not a contact tracer or a reporter who reported on this. But the news story said that the origin (based on contact tracing) was from hospital personnel who brought it into the hospital from home. It didn’t say how. It also said that a subgroup of six people on a different unit of the hospital have Covid from an unknown origin. But beyond that I don’t know the details of this particular hospital’s PPE and Covid procedures. It’s not one of the hospitals where my husband has worked. And it’s not one of the highest rated local hospitals. 

 

I can easily imagine how that could happen.

 

For example, when my nephew got CV19 that was only figured out because he had symptoms. He did not end up infecting his parents who are doctors.  But if he had been less symptomatic, it is quite possible he could have slipped under the radar of being tested, thence infected his parents, who could have then taken it to work without realizing. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

They have been out protesting anyway since the whole George Floyd protests started, so I am not sure it particularly increases CV19 numbers, and our state is a mail voting state, so in person voting would not have been part of our case spike, 

but shift to more violence, breaking windows of businesses already in difficulties due to lockdowns etc  certainly adds sense of danger/instability     

I have extended family in medicine in the area and they are fine, but going to/from work seemed sketchy so they have been staying at their medical center   They are in fields that don’t much handle hospital level CV19 but do potentially handle some riot injury type issues. 

To be clear I can’t see how all the protesting forever hasn’t increased cases not just the most recent round.  

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1 hour ago, Matryoshka said:

Mink are not rodents, but you can carry on worrying about pet ferrets... 

 

Thank you!

I wonder why I thought they were rodents.   

I will carry on worry about pet and wild ferrets and also weasels.  

 

And I will worry about rodents also. Hamsters are rodents right? And can get CV19?   

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I am seeing some epidemiologist type people downplay the mink situation (basically saying they haven’t seen the scientific evidence yet). Hope they’re right.  It’s having ripple effects tHough as UK has just struck Denmark off the safe travel list.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transport-secretary-statement-on-denmark

 

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21 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Thank you!

I wonder why I thought they were rodents.   

I will carry on worry about pet and wild ferrets and also weasels.  

 

And I will worry about rodents also. Hamsters are rodents right? And can get CV19?   

I think a version that spreads readily in cats would be a nightmare.

 

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5 hours ago, HSMWB said:

I do find this interesting, and am NOT ‘anti-mask’, but at the same time, how is a ‘hospital outbreak’ determined to be ‘community spread’??  Especially if said hospital is in a place that has basically 100% masking compliance and has had public masking mandates for months. Does this mean that people who work at the hospital are not masking outside of work??  Or that it is just coincidence that these people work together?  I’m not exactly sure what the definition of what a ‘hospital outbreak’ or what ‘community speak’ is based on contact tracing.  I only put these in quotes because it seems like they are being used as a very specific term in this instance. 

We had an outbreak at a teaching hospital in Florida...a bunch of anesthesiologists went to a party together, unmasked. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I think a version that spreads readily in cats would be a nightmare.

 

 

It does spread in cats doesn’t it?

No evidence of cat to human transmission... but ... that could change 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200909114823.htm

 

More cats might be COVID-19 positive than first believed, study suggests

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1 hour ago, Pen said:

Thank you!

I wonder why I thought they were rodents.   

I will carry on worry about pet and wild ferrets and also weasels.  

And I will worry about rodents also. Hamsters are rodents right? And can get CV19?   

I'm not sure about rodents, but I'm pretty sure I read cats can get it. I have cats. 😞

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2 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I'm not sure about rodents, but I'm pretty sure I read cats can get it. I have cats. 😞

 

Cats can definitely get it.

so far I think they have seemed to get over it and no

known transfer cat to human

 

 

I am feeling much sadder about the mink being slaughtered  now that I know they are related to otters, not mice.  That is probably wrong of me, but seems to be a feeling I have since I looked them up.   They eat rodents it said. 

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20 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It does spread in cats doesn’t it?

No evidence of cat to human transmission... but ... that could change 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/09/200909114823.htm

 

More cats might be COVID-19 positive than first believed, study suggests

Yes that’s why it seems like a potential place where things could go wrong.

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12 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

This person was well enough to work polling station on Tuesday, apparently without symptoms, and dead two days later? 

I didn’t read it in depth to be honest.  I guess it’s possible if it was caused by a blood clot/heart attack etc?  

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2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I didn’t read it in depth to be honest.  I guess it’s possible if it was caused by a blood clot/heart attack etc?  

 

Yes.   

I wonder if there have been heart attacks before CV19 that were viral related and maybe we just did not know. 

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The Danes are slaughtering all 19 million mink within their borders. There had been previous small outbreaks, but the mutation has them freaked out. Danish newspapers are stating that Holland is going to eliminate their mink population as well. It’s going to be a de facto end of the mink trade in those countries, I think.

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42 minutes ago, Pen said:

I am feeling much sadder about the mink being slaughtered  now that I know they are related to otters, not mice.  That is probably wrong of me, but seems to be a feeling I have since I looked them up.   They eat rodents it said. 

Yeah, all that weasel family is quite enthusiastically carnivorous ...

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Derek Lowe discusses the variant found in minks. Posters in the comment section address many of the concerns.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/05/dont-make-mine-mink

Denmark is culling and closing down to reduce spread and the possibility of a second wave. They don't want more cases.

From what I've read elsewhere, the vaccines will be effective against this variant. Iirc, Denmark will use AstraZeneca. Maybe some others as well.

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Human recombinant soluble ACE2 has been found to work in a severe case of Covid. Granted, they will have to try this on more patients but it looks promising.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30418-5/fulltext

An article from April that explains in layman's terms how hrsACE2 works:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200402144526.htm

The Covid virus needs to bind to a specific protein on the host's cell in order to enter the cell and replicate. That protein is called ACE2 and it acts as the "door" that the virus uses to get into the cell.

Scientists developed a therapy using other "doors" not connected to a cell that the Covid virus will attach to. Because those doors are not attached to a cell, the virus is not able to replicate and spread as easily. Pretty cool.

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11 hours ago, BeachGal said:

Derek Lowe discusses the variant found in minks. Posters in the comment section address many of the concerns.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/05/dont-make-mine-mink

Denmark is culling and closing down to reduce spread and the possibility of a second wave. They don't want more cases.

From what I've read elsewhere, the vaccines will be effective against this variant. Iirc, Denmark will use AstraZeneca. Maybe some others as well.

 

It seems like the mink population could be used to test therapies ... ivermectin if mink can take it safely, for example

 vitamin D / iodine misting

it seems like an opportunity 

 

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10 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

It seems like the mink population could be used to test therapies ... ivermectin if mink can take it safely, for example

 vitamin D / iodine misting

it seems like an opportunity 

 

Yes, that's a good idea. They are using minks in some studies already. This would be a good opportunity as well, I would think.

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10 hours ago, Pen said:

 

It seems like the mink population could be used to test therapies ... ivermectin if mink can take it safely, for example

 vitamin D / iodine misting

it seems like an opportunity 

 

Definitely could be but I think I’d want to know more about the strain.  If it’s significantly different enough to cause reinfection or issues for a vaccine it might not be worth the risk.  
 

I wonder if there is a certain element of wanting to close down mink farms anyway, Covid aside.

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42 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Definitely could be but I think I’d want to know more about the strain.  If it’s significantly different enough to cause reinfection or issues for a vaccine it might not be worth the risk.  
 

I wonder if there is a certain element of wanting to close down mink farms anyway, Covid aside.

 

Yes. Apparently the issue is that the mink strain suppresses development of antibodies.  So it seems it is a problem for any immunity depending on antibodies.

 

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22 minutes ago, Pen said:

Been mostly answered questions about long haul more than anything else. Also mentioned that he is getting hate mail and stalking ... 

Many of the doctors and scientist on social media have mentioned similar.  I’m not sure what’s with people getting emotional about people providing medical and scientific information.  

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1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Many of the doctors and scientist on social media have mentioned similar.  I’m not sure what’s with people getting emotional about people providing medical and scientific information.  

Well former White House adviser Steve Bannon just called for Fauci's severed head to be displayed on a pike outside the WH "as a warning to Federal bureaucrats: get with the program or you're gone." Because apparently this is 1420, not 2020, and stating scientific facts that displease the king is punishable by death.

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An article about the mink variant:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/05/spread-of-mutated-coronavirus-in-danish-mink-hits-all-the-scary-buttons-but-fears-may-be-overblown/

Francois Balloux’s response to the media coverage:

https://mobile.twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1324085761449304067

Denmark has been wanting to close all mink farms for awhile now, well before Covid. The date that was set to do this was either 2021 or 2024. I don't recall. This was a good reason to do so. 

I imagine TWiV will discuss the variant soon.

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Many of the doctors and scientist on social media have mentioned similar.  I’m not sure what’s with people getting emotional about people providing medical and scientific information.  

 

For Dr Been close to the start he mentioned 1) people (usually fellow Muslims) who don’t support his saying positive things about all religions

2) later in video he mentioned stalkers, including one he has been afraid might show up at his home in person angry about what he has said / not said about CV19

In addition not mentioned on this video iirc, but YouTube has removed Dr Been videos for mention of Vitamin D, as well as more controversial substances.

Freedom of expression seems to be very much under attack in USA. 

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Worldwide was over 600,000 cases in a day yesterday.  Deaths over 9000 the last two days.  US passed 10,000,000 cases.

I am seeing predictions of US escalating to 200,000 cases per day in the next four weeks.  I hope that’s wrong and things start turning around somehow.

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https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-11-07/hormonal-contraception-increases-blood-clotting-risk-coronavirus/12852738
 

Women who have severe Covid may be better off not taking the pill.

“According to new guidelines from the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners (RACGP), women who have been severely ill with COVID-19 should stop using combined hormonal contraception.

That's because COVID-19 can increase the risk of blood clotting — a risk that's already heightened with the use of hormonal contraceptives that contain oestrogen (which make blood clots more likely).”

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Scotland's positivity rate is 8% overall. Glasgow and Edinburgh are pretty shut down - masks in all public places, take-away only, work from home if you can, gyms, theatres, pubs all closed, going out for essential purposes only, no visitors in the home.

My county will probably be under those rules from Tuesday. It sounds draconian,  but I'm pretty much living like that anyway, and I'm very happy to help reduce pressure on hospital capacity. In fact my neighbourhood has had no cases in the past six weeks, but there have been a few in the town where I  work.

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 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10096-020-03913-9

"In the present work, we observe a strong correlation between Ct value and sample infectivity in a cell culture model. On the basis of this data, we can deduce that with our system, patients with Ct values equal or above 34 do not excrete infectious viral particles."

"One limitation of our work is that it cannot be extrapolated to other hospital centers since they use different systems of sample transport, of RNA extraction, and of PCR with different primers and probes; i.e. it has been suggested that sensitivity of amplification based on Gene E detection would be less sensitive than ORF1ab or N genes. We propose that each center perform its own correlation between culture results and viral RNA load from patients’ samples."

 

If we had better numbers/correlation for all PCR tests, we could get more accurate case numbers and a deeper understanding of who is actually infectious.  If PCR tests are running higher Ct values, finding any viral loads, and reporting a case positive, it would seem that that is a false positive.  Has anyone seen other research like this?

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18 minutes ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10096-020-03913-9

"In the present work, we observe a strong correlation between Ct value and sample infectivity in a cell culture model. On the basis of this data, we can deduce that with our system, patients with Ct values equal or above 34 do not excrete infectious viral particles."

"One limitation of our work is that it cannot be extrapolated to other hospital centers since they use different systems of sample transport, of RNA extraction, and of PCR with different primers and probes; i.e. it has been suggested that sensitivity of amplification based on Gene E detection would be less sensitive than ORF1ab or N genes. We propose that each center perform its own correlation between culture results and viral RNA load from patients’ samples."

 

If we had better numbers/correlation for all PCR tests, we could get more accurate case numbers and a deeper understanding of who is actually infectious.  If PCR tests are running higher Ct values, finding any viral loads, and reporting a case positive, it would seem that that is a false positive.  Has anyone seen other research like this?

My understanding was that they couldn’t report if there had never been infection but tests will pick up long shedding from previous infection sometimes?  So not a true false positive but detecting levels of virus or virus fragments that aren’t contagious anymore.

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https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/08/nhs-england-suspends-one-to-one-nursing-for-critically-ill-covid-patients?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium=&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true
 

UK NHS have moved to allow nurses to take care of more than one critically ill Covid patient due to staffing shortages.

1:2 is the new maximum ratio.

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