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wuhan - coronavirus

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19 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Re: deaths

I think it'll be next week before we know the new trend. I'm thinking it'll be at least July 14th before we see the effect of July 4th on cases, too.

I am hopeful that kids traveling for college from hard-hit states will actually bring a positive masking impact to states who are anti-mask. DD's college area is in exponential case increase now, but just announced mandatory masking. So, in just over a month when (if) the college kids (are allowed to) show up, I hope cases will have leveled off. And that the kids coming in bring in an attitude of, "wear a mask so I can stay here & study in person please!"

Oh, I am so freaked out about college kids coming back :-/. It's all NY needs, an influx of students bringing the infection with them... 

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1 hour ago, TCB said:

Feeling pretty fed up about the way things are going in the US. It’s starting to feel like watching lemmings walk off a cliff.

Only also it’s like drunk drivers because it affects those who aren’t walking off cliffs more like drunk driving affects others

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Does anyone know what the deal is with air conditioning?  Does it help or does it hurt?   I remember the restaurant that they attributed spread to the AC system, but then I see people talking about AC being a benefit when schools open.  Which is it?  Or is the AC in schools just to make masks more comfortable?  

I've also seen fans recommended as something to help with the virus, so what's the deal there?

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3 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

Does anyone know what the deal is with air conditioning?  Does it help or does it hurt?   I remember the restaurant that they attributed spread to the AC system, but then I see people talking about AC being a benefit when schools open.  Which is it?  Or is the AC in schools just to make masks more comfortable?  

I've also seen fans recommended as something to help with the virus, so what's the deal there?

I think it hurts. I saw an article (but unfortunately can’t remember where) talking about how a/c helps to aerosolize droplets.  

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3 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

Does anyone know what the deal is with air conditioning?  Does it help or does it hurt?   I remember the restaurant that they attributed spread to the AC system, but then I see people talking about AC being a benefit when schools open.  Which is it?  Or is the AC in schools just to make masks more comfortable?  

I've also seen fans recommended as something to help with the virus, so what's the deal there?

I think people are thinking that the AC will make masks more comfortable?  Everything else I've seen says that AC is not good for virus spread, and may further aerosolize it...  unless there's been some new data on this I haven't seen...

Almost none of our schools here have AC, which is now seeming like a good thing...  I think a lot of the fancy new university buildings do, though...

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6 minutes ago, Where's Toto? said:

Does anyone know what the deal is with air conditioning?  Does it help or does it hurt?   I remember the restaurant that they attributed spread to the AC system, but then I see people talking about AC being a benefit when schools open.  Which is it?  Or is the AC in schools just to make masks more comfortable?  

I've also seen fans recommended as something to help with the virus, so what's the deal there?

I'm curious about fans... my gym is opening (I'm not going back yet!) but they're saying they're keeping all the fans off... but that means they at least have to have AC on?  That seems backward???

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I have AC at my science center but honestly can usually do without it by mid-September which is when I"m opening.

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Just now, Matryoshka said:

I'm curious about fans... my gym is opening (I'm not going back yet!) but they're saying they're keeping all the fans off... but that means they at least have to have AC on?  That seems backward???

I've seen fans suggested as something with open doors to circulate with outdoor air.  I think?   Not completely sure there either.  

I'm trying to come up with the best plan I can but there are so many factors involved.  

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Just now, Where's Toto? said:

I've seen fans suggested as something with open doors to circulate with outdoor air.  I think?   Not completely sure there either.  

I'm trying to come up with the best plan I can but there are so many factors involved.  

That does seem to be a good idea.  I've heard that just having a window open can help.

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Our school plans are urging windows open as much as possible -- but in many classrooms there are no windows.

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Dry air is worse, and air blowing from an infected person to a non infected person is bad. But, air not circulating at all is also bad, as the levels will build up and build up. And if you are the non infected person, having a fan blowing away from you is good, to keep the virus away. Of course, if you are the infected person, having a fan blowing away from you is bad, as it is spreading the virus further. 

The best answer is open windows with everyone sitting by one. 

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1 hour ago, Where's Toto? said:

Does anyone know what the deal is with air conditioning?  Does it help or does it hurt?   I remember the restaurant that they attributed spread to the AC system, but then I see people talking about AC being a benefit when schools open.  Which is it?  Or is the AC in schools just to make masks more comfortable?  

I've also seen fans recommended as something to help with the virus, so what's the deal there?

It looks like it's a problem. It recirculates virus particles. 

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4 hours ago, Where's Toto? said:

Does anyone know what the deal is with air conditioning?  Does it help or does it hurt?   I remember the restaurant that they attributed spread to the AC system, but then I see people talking about AC being a benefit when schools open.  Which is it?  Or is the AC in schools just to make masks more comfortable?  

I've also seen fans recommended as something to help with the virus, so what's the deal there?

 

Articles I have seen on A/C seem to indicate it may make conditions for viral transmission even worse than normal indoors (based in part on Tuberculosis knowledge, and a few reviews of situations in PRC, Hong Kong, and somewhere else).  

If a fan is the type that can create a rapid air exchange of relatively fresh  outside air replacing inside air — and particularly if old air is sucked out upwards through an attic fan and air exchange vent rather than wafting virus from one person towards another, I would think that might help somewhat, similar to being actually out of doors. Though UV light aspect would mostly not apply indoors even if air exchange could be similar to outdoors. 

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I assume my area’s supermarkets have AC.  

I would think that filtration in AC systems (or heat systems with blowing air aspects)  would also matter. 

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6 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I think it hurts. I saw an article (but unfortunately can’t remember where) talking about how a/c helps to aerosolize droplets.  

Norman Swan yesterday on the podcast was saying open windows with fans will help because you can get air exchange with the outside but I don’t think air conditioning helps.  The advice is to avoid sitting near the air con outlets if you’re in an air conditioned building.  

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2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I assume my area’s supermarkets have AC.  

I would think that filtration in AC systems (or heat systems with blowing air aspects)  would also matter. 

They seem to be mandating specific kinds of filtration in mall ACs in NY. 

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216 new cases in Vic 

1 death

I am wondering how soon until the whole state is back on lockdown 

Was chacked at a roadblock leaving Melbourne to go home today. Has to show ID to prove I don't live in Melbourne, state reason for visiting, length I was in Melbourne and what suburb I had stayed in

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https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN24B2RM?__twitter_impression=true
 

good roundup of some science.

There does seem to be a link between countries that have had the tuberculosis vaccine and lower death rates.  Dexamethasone seems to help.  There are several different forms of Covid disease Caused by different immune responses not just “severe” and mild” and something called granulocytes (a type of white blood cell) seems to be associate with more severe cases.  Dormitory screening would have to happen every three days to be effective.  And a summary of the study on long term outcomes that we’ve already talked about here.

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I’m feeling slightly disturbed by some footage from Wuhan showing people swimming in floodwater 😬. Including kids.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/10/world/europe/coroanvirus-scotland-england.html

 

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5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Interesting. My whole family had the BCG because of where we lived when the children were young.

Same here. 

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 antibodies review

@Ausmumof3 or anyone else interested—IMO (and from POV of having started in immunology study direction before change of course) this is another good video to watch.  I think clear enough not to need to go back to earlier ones in order to understand it:

 

https://youtu.be/zvfSzl3uEAA

 

https://youtu.be/zvfSzl3uEAA

 

Edited by Pen
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@EmseB

https://apnews.com/5838e8c050a9312ab4077c42de840aa3

“TOKYO (AP) — Dozens of U.S. Marines at two bases on the southern Japanese island of Okinawa have been infected with the coronavirus in what is feared to be a massive outbreak, Okinawa’s governor said Saturday, demanding an adequate explanation from the U.S. military.

Gov. Denny Tamaki said he could say only that a “few dozen” cases had been found recently because the U.S. military asked that the exact figure not be released. The outbreaks occurred at Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, which is at the center of a relocation dispute, and Camp Hansen, Tamaki said.

Local media, citing unnamed sources, said about 60 people had been infected.

“Okinawans are shocked by what we were told (by the U.S. military),” Tamaki told a news conference. “We now have strong doubts that the U.S. military has taken adequate disease prevention measures.” 

Tamaki demanded transparency in the latest development and said he planned to request talks between the U.S. military and Okinawan officials. He said Okinawan officials also asked the Japanese government to demand that the U.S. provide details including the number of cases, seal off Futenma and Camp Hansen, and step up preventive measures on base.

Okinawan officials made similar requests to the U.S. military on Friday in order to address local residents’ concerns, Tamaki said. 

The Marines said in a statement Friday that the troops were taking additional protective measures to limit the spread of the coronavirus and were restricting off-base activities. The statement said measures are “to protect our forces, our families, and the local community,” without providing details on the infections.”

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42 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

@EmseB

https://apnews.com/5838e8c050a9312ab4077c42de840aa3

“TOKYO (AP) — Dozens of U.S. Marines at two bases on the southern Japanese island of Okinawa have been infected with the coronavirus in what is feared to be a massive outbreak, Okinawa’s governor said Saturday, demanding an adequate explanation from the U.S. military.

Gov. Denny Tamaki said he could say only that a “few dozen” cases had been found recently because the U.S. military asked that the exact figure not be released. The outbreaks occurred at Marine Corps Air Station Futenma, which is at the center of a relocation dispute, and Camp Hansen, Tamaki said.

Local media, citing unnamed sources, said about 60 people had been infected.

“Okinawans are shocked by what we were told (by the U.S. military),” Tamaki told a news conference. “We now have strong doubts that the U.S. military has taken adequate disease prevention measures.” 

Tamaki demanded transparency in the latest development and said he planned to request talks between the U.S. military and Okinawan officials. He said Okinawan officials also asked the Japanese government to demand that the U.S. provide details including the number of cases, seal off Futenma and Camp Hansen, and step up preventive measures on base.

Okinawan officials made similar requests to the U.S. military on Friday in order to address local residents’ concerns, Tamaki said. 

The Marines said in a statement Friday that the troops were taking additional protective measures to limit the spread of the coronavirus and were restricting off-base activities. The statement said measures are “to protect our forces, our families, and the local community,” without providing details on the infections.”

I only know a few people in Oki, but the general vibe I get is that things on the island (not just bases) are kind of lax and precautions are general voluntary. I haven't read up on it at all, but it was kind of like cases seem low for lack of testing.

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30 year old dies after attending COVID party. 
 

https://apple.news/Ae8zxeRGURHiCyCchtnOOJA

I am getting all confused on who said what and where but I remember someone saying that COVID parties were a hoax. Doesn’t seem like a hoax to me. 

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28 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

30 year old dies after attending COVID party. 
 

https://apple.news/Ae8zxeRGURHiCyCchtnOOJA

I am getting all confused on who said what and where but I remember someone saying that COVID parties were a hoax. Doesn’t seem like a hoax to me. 

I posted this article about the reporting of them.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-parties-are-not-a-thing/

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32 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

30 year old dies after attending COVID party. 
 

https://apple.news/Ae8zxeRGURHiCyCchtnOOJA

I am getting all confused on who said what and where but I remember someone saying that COVID parties were a hoax. Doesn’t seem like a hoax to me. 

 

The film on this is a helpful quick round up of various places:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/30-year-man-dies-attending-covid-party-thinking/story?id=71731414

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19 minutes ago, EmseB said:

I posted this article about the reporting of them.

https://www.wired.com/story/covid-parties-are-not-a-thing/

Here's the thing.  If you're in a place with cases on the rise, or even holding steady in a certain # of the population, having any kind of large gathering without masks and distancing is going to become a "Covid party".  Because as was posted in another Covid thread:

22 minutes ago, kokotg said:

have people seen Georgia tech's new event planning tool? https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu ....in my county, there's a greater than 99% chance that a gathering of 500 people will have at least 1 positive person....so it's  likely that EVERY SCHOOL IN THE COUNTY will start the year with covid cases. 

and 

8 minutes ago, kokotg said:

"Only" 56% here for 25 people. That's a fairly average class size; my math teacher husband just calculated that that means there's a 1.6% chance that NO ONE in any of his 5 classes will be positive. So there's only a 98.4% chance that he and every one of his students will be exposed every day. 

So... if you get together at a party with a bunch of people during a Covid outbreak ... it has every potential to become a 'Covid party'.

You heard about the mom who sent her dd16 who had recovered from cancer to a party at their church?  She died.

 

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17 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

Here's the thing.  If you're in a place with cases on the rise, or even holding steady in a certain # of the population, having any kind of large gathering without masks and distancing is going to become a "Covid party".  Because as was posted in another Covid thread:

and 

So... if you get together at a party with a bunch of people during a Covid outbreak ... it has every potential to become a 'Covid party'.

You heard about the mom who sent her dd16 who had recovered from cancer to a party at their church?  She died.

 

 

And I guess classes in schools also have potential to be Covid parties. 

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7 minutes ago, Pen said:

And I guess classes in schools also have potential to be Covid parties. 

Pretty much... although hopefully there will be more masking and distancing than at a party...?  Still is sounding like the less people mixing around close together,  the better...

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Saw my mother, who lives in a care home, for the first time in four months today. She's pretty cross. She didn't have her hearing aids in, so we sat two metres apart and did the 'Love Actually' marker thing. 

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1 hour ago, BookwormTo2 said:

Did anyone see or post this article (posted July 9) about 239 researchers claiming "there's significant evidence the coronavirus can persist in the air".....

https://www.cnet.com/news/coronavirus-airborne-spread-who-calls-for-more-evidence-about-covid-19-transmission/

Yes. I listened to the latest CIDRAP podcast with Dr. Osterholm. He highly respects 2 of the scientists who participated. They are rock stars in what was it? Aerodynamic biology??? Something like that. They study biological particles in the air. Osterholm has been working on how many viral particles it takes to infect a person. Their work collides, pardon the pun. Next week he plans to talk about schools. 
 

 

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Abc:  The Alfred Hospital in Melbourne has been hit by a second cluster of coronavirus cases with eight healthcare workers testing positive for COVID-19.

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South Africa is spiking horribly the last couple of days with over 10,000 cases the last two days.  India’s curve is still scarily steep.  Global cases are over 200,000 a day right now.

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If there are 15 kids in a classroom and windows cannot be opened because it is too cold and the kids are sitting spread apart for 3 hours and one kid has it, what are the chances the others will get it? I think pretty high. In three hours the air will diffuse through the whole class.

In my area they want to open schools. They acknowledge that there will be cases and that kids can get sick and die but that if one child in a class tests positive they will test all the friends. Is this really enough? They want to open schools for mental health and so parents can work. What will the mental health of kids be if they see a classmate getting sick and dying? Is it not better if we wait a few more months?

Also, I saw a doctor today acknowledge that even if kids are a symptomatic we don't know if the virus will affect them down the line.

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273 new cases in Victoria. 1 more death

Many hospitals  across Melbourne having 1 or 2 staff testing positive 

The premier also announced that only year 11 and 12 will be going back to school next week, other grades will have 1 week off then go back to school at home

Edited by Melissa in Australia
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10 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

273 new cases in Victoria. 1 more death

Many hospitals  across Melbourne having 1 or 2 staff testing positive 

The premier also announced that only year 11 and 12 will be going back to school next week, other grades will have 1 week off then go back to school at home

So sad to see how quickly this has gone from an almost non issue to multiple deaths.  Praying that we get this under control soon.

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1 hour ago, Teaching3bears said:

If there are 15 kids in a classroom and windows cannot be opened because it is too cold and the kids are sitting spread apart for 3 hours and one kid has it, what are the chances the others will get it? I think pretty high. In three hours the air will diffuse through the whole class.

In my area they want to open schools. They acknowledge that there will be cases and that kids can get sick and die but that if one child in a class tests positive they will test all the friends. Is this really enough? They want to open schools for mental health and so parents can work. What will the mental health of kids be if they see a classmate getting sick and dying? Is it not better if we wait a few more months?

Also, I saw a doctor today acknowledge that even if kids are a symptomatic we don't know if the virus will affect them down the line.

You could consider open windows with heaters going?  I know that won’t work for winter in many places but even if you got through one term it would have to help.

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18 minutes ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

The boarding school thing is nuts. Congregate living is a disaster everywhere they have tried it.

Yes and particularly with that age group!  They are at the age to be able to get and spread and also the age they mostly likely feel invincible and want to break all the rules!

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