wuhan - coronavirus

[Pen]

Just now, TravelingChris said:

I know that from my local updates- we have the most cases we have had since the pandemic began but most of the deaths actually occurred earlier in the pandemic.  The hospital officials are saying that while numbers are up, deaths are way down.  

that is also my impression- and what people I know in medical fields are saying -  (and is a separate issue from severe cases staying in hospitals for extended time and filling up beds)

I would like to find charts though

 

I had seen some that compared several years in a variety of ways such as totals and as percent of population, but cannot find them now .  Maybe they were taken off web. 

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

I know that from my local updates- we have the most cases we have had since the pandemic began but most of the deaths actually occurred earlier in the pandemic.  The hospital officials are saying that while numbers are up, deaths are way down.  

Are you in Alabama (guessing based on "Rocket City" in your sig)? If so, covid deaths in Alabama are the highest they've ever been — and that was true even before Thanksgiving, so it's not just an artifact of delayed reporting. Maybe in your particular city they may be catching more cases, with a much higher percentage in younger people due to the university, but that is not what is generally happening state wide in Alabama, let alone throughout the US.

[TravelingChris]

8 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Are you in Alabama (guessing based on "Rocket City" in your sig)? If so, covid deaths in Alabama are the highest they've ever been — and that was true even before Thanksgiving, so it's not just an artifact of delayed reporting. Maybe in your particular city they may be catching more cases, with a much higher percentage in younger people due to the university, but that is not what is generally happening state wide in Alabama, let alone throughout the US.

Yes,  And I know they are the highest now but we also have the highest number of COVID positive patients now and percentage wise, the death rate has dropped,  Also, my city has lower death rate than many of the others.  Part of that is that many parts of my state are rural with no hospitals nearby.  Many hospitals have closed since I have moved here in 2011 though in my county, we have actually built another hospital.  Also, as I expected, parts of the state aren't obeying the masking order.  A lady I know was telling me about her relatives in Eufala, Al and her relatives don't meet others who were the masks like they do.  

Oh and we actually have 3 universities and 2 community colleges.  I know that at least one ended in person classes before Thanksgiving and didn't have people return. I am not sure the status of the other two though I did see that UAH had basketball games somewhere this last weekend.

[cintinative]

So we all expected the Ohio numbers to be high today because they dumped in 13K antigen tests that were backlogged, but we were at around 25K cases which means our daily cases for today are around 12K, but more significantly our hospitalizations were 657 which is almost double our 21 day average.  UGH.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by cintinative

[Frances]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

That might depend on the state?  In the spring my state averaged around 25 deaths a day.  Now it's over 50 deaths a day. 

Same here. We rarely went into double digits until November and now have had around 30 per day recently.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Frances

[Kassia]

18 hours ago, Acadie said:

12,600 uncounted results will increase our case numbers in one way or another, and I've heard that my county (Cuyahoga) would have shifted into purple last Thursday if these cases had been counted in a timely fashion. Instead we're still "on watch" to go purple. 

No doubt this will fuel conspiracy. Not sure what help there is for that, other than for OH public health officials and politicians to try their darnedest to get data and messaging right as quickly as possible. 

From a friend in healthcare I've heard Cleveland Clinic main campus ICU is full. There are limited beds at smaller hospitals, and refrigerated trucks are on the way. 

 

Acadie, I'm in the next county over (Geauga) and I never thought we'd be as bad as we are now.  I can't even imagine what it's like in Cuyahoga.  😞  

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

that is also my impression- and what people I know in medical fields are saying -  (and is a separate issue from severe cases staying in hospitals for extended time and filling up beds)

I would like to find charts though

 

I had seen some that compared several years in a variety of ways such as totals and as percent of population, but cannot find them now .  Maybe they were taken off web. 

It’s not true in your state that covid deaths are down, it’s exactly the opposite. They are the highest they’ve been since this started.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

Yes,  And I know they are the highest now but we also have the highest number of COVID positive patients now and percentage wise, the death rate has dropped,  Also, my city has lower death rate than many of the others.  Part of that is that many parts of my state are rural with no hospitals nearby.  Many hospitals have closed since I have moved here in 2011 though in my county, we have actually built another hospital.  Also, as I expected, parts of the state aren't obeying the masking order.  A lady I know was telling me about her relatives in Eufala, Al and her relatives don't meet others who were the masks like they do.  

Oh and we actually have 3 universities and 2 community colleges.  I know that at least one ended in person classes before Thanksgiving and didn't have people return. I am not sure the status of the other two though I did see that UAH had basketball games somewhere this last weekend.

It’s also going to depend on rates of testing though. My state has been bad about testing all along, but was especially bad earlier on. So if you are trying to calculate percent of positive cases that result in death over time, the number isn’t going to be very meaningful unless testing rates were similar over time. I don’t know about your state, but in my state they were quite different.

[Tenaj]

1 hour ago, cintinative said:

So we all expected the Ohio numbers to be high today because they dumped in 13K antigen tests that were backlogged, but we were at around 25K cases which means our daily cases for today are around 12K, but more significantly our hospitalizations were 657 which is almost double our 21 day average.  UGH.

 

I just figured out the same numbers myself!  Not good!  I'm afraid the data dump will disguise those daily numbers.  People who think it's all fake are already making comments.

[Ausmumof3]

2 lions at a Spanish Zoo tested positive to coronavirus.  I must admit I’m wondering who got close enough to pass it on to them.  Seems like maybe it would be surface transmission from food or something.  I’m also curious as to how nasal swabbing a lion works.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/four-lions-infected-with-covid-19-in-barcelona-zoo/12963660

Edited December 8, 2020 by Ausmumof3

[Ausmumof3]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-020-00698-1
 

Age stratified meta analysis of Covid risk

The estimated age-specific IFR is very low for children and younger adults (e.g., 0.002% at age 10 and 0.01% at age 25) but increases progressively to 0.4% at age 55, 1.4% at age 65, 4.6% at age 75, and 15% at age 85. Moreover, our results indicate that about 90% of the variation in population IFR across geographical locations reflects differences in the age composition of the population and the extent to which relatively vulnerable age groups were exposed to the virus. These results indicate that COVID-19 is hazardous not only for the elderly but also for middle-aged adults, for whom the infection fatality rate is two orders of magnitude greater than the annualized risk of a fatal automobile accident and far more dangerous than seasonal influenza. Moreover, the overall IFR for COVID-19 should not be viewed as a fixed parameter but as intrinsically linked to the age-specific pattern of infections. Consequently, public health measures to mitigate infections in older adults could substantially decrease total deaths.

 

[RootAnn]

3 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

I know that at least one ended in person classes before Thanksgiving and didn't have people return. I am not sure the status of the other two though I did see that UAH had basketball games somewhere this last weekend.

While in person classes (of which there weren't a ton) ended prior to Thanksgiving at UAH, dorms remain open all break & students were allowed to come & go as they wish. My kid didn't come home at Thanksgiving but I believe some of her friends that live within a few hours' drive went home & returned for online classes and/or finals, FWIW.

1 hour ago, Frances said:

It’s not true in your state that covid deaths are down, it’s exactly the opposite. They are the highest they’ve been since this started.

She might be referring to her county. Death rates are roughly steady - going up & down, but mostly running one death/day. (Attaching a screenshot from BamaTracker.)

[RootAnn]

2 hours ago, Frances said:

It’s also going to depend on rates of testing though. My state has been bad about testing all along, but was especially bad earlier on. So if you are trying to calculate percent of positive cases that result in death over time, the number isn’t going to be very meaningful unless testing rates were similar over time. I don’t know about your state, but in my state they were quite different.

Alabama deaths/case numbers are down from early on, but tests aren't significantly higher now (especially compared to mid-July spike) although there has been a small increase in testing. [These charts are from Bamatracker & are for Alabama as a whole. Last post was just Madison County.]

[OH_Homeschooler]

23 hours ago, popmom said:

I watched The Hot Zone--the mini series. I should read this, too. 

I have read all of his books, they are all so engaging. 

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

2 lions at a Spanish Zoo tested positive to coronavirus.  I must admit I’m wondering who got close enough to pass it on to them.  Seems like maybe it would be surface transmission from food or something.  I’m also curious as to how nasal swabbing a lion works.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/four-lions-infected-with-covid-19-in-barcelona-zoo/12963660

that was raised also with the American big cats that got it - who got that close?!?!

though there may actually be some friendly big cats who go on zoo walks as “animal ambassadors” 

[Ausmumof3]

11 days.  Hope we can make it to 14.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, RootAnn said:

 

She might be referring to her county. Death rates are roughly steady - going up & down, but mostly running one death/day. (Attaching a screenshot from BamaTracker.)

 

Pen and I both live in Oregon.

[Frances]

10 hours ago, Pen said:

I don’t disagree with totals since January

I am looking for a recent breakdown by week or month comparing to 2018 and 2019 so as to distinguish recent versus aggregate 

It takes time for all deaths to be recorded and tracked, so it’s really not possible to compare recent, complete data for 2020 to 2019 and 2018. As noted in the Economist article below, any recent statistics would need to be used with caution and likely undercount deaths. And as noted in The NY Times article, we are working on a third peak in cases in the US, and the corresponding deaths are following. We will likely not have complete data for 2020 until some point in 2021. While there are countries (e.g. Finland, Denmark, Norway) that have not seen much in the way of excess deaths so far in 2020 using available data, the US is definitely not in this group.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/15/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries

https://www.cbs19.tv/article/news/health/coronavirus/verify-comparing-the-number-of-total-deaths-in-the-united-states-across-years/501-2aacbd08-466a-4d17-8452-e059df9aa6f3

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
 

 

 

 

 

[TravelingChris]

12 hours ago, Frances said:

It’s also going to depend on rates of testing though. My state has been bad about testing all along, but was especially bad earlier on. So if you are trying to calculate percent of positive cases that result in death over time, the number isn’t going to be very meaningful unless testing rates were similar over time. I don’t know about your state, but in my state they were quite different.

The hospital was talking about how the hospitalized are surviving better now. Which wouldn't depend on testing.

And yes, there is a lot of testing now but there was a lot of testing by at least mid May or end of May.

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-10/genomic-testing-shows-spread-of-novotel,-ryde-hospital-covid-19/12965730
 

Article on genomics testing in Australia for tracking the path of an outbreak.  It’s quite interesting, I’m going to have DS read it for science as we are doing a Great Course on DNA this year.

[TravelingChris]

23 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

2 lions at a Spanish Zoo tested positive to coronavirus.  I must admit I’m wondering who got close enough to pass it on to them.  Seems like maybe it would be surface transmission from food or something.  I’m also curious as to how nasal swabbing a lion works.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-09/four-lions-infected-with-covid-19-in-barcelona-zoo/12963660

No, I don't think surface transmission can be assumed.  They do have to clean enclosures.  When we visited a zoo back in September, we had to stay far away from the enclosures because of COVID and aerosol transmission.

[TravelingChris]

21 hours ago, Pen said:

that was raised also with the American big cats that got it - who got that close?!?!

though there may actually be some friendly big cats who go on zoo walks as “animal ambassadors” 

While in the US, the zoos have most likely mandated masking by staff while around the animals, maybe in Spain they haven't.  Or this particular zoo didn't.  As I said in the earlier post, people come in to clean while the big cats aren't present.  Also, almost all the animals get yearly check-ups by veterinary staff.  We have no idea about when they got those compared to when the big cats got sick.

[TravelingChris]

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/blZKw/4/

This is a map of my state and COVID positivity rates.  Yesterday, in my local news, a certified nurse practitioner from a neighboring county that has horrible stats was interviewed.  She was saying that there are a lot of people in her county getting COVID and a lot of those people weren't wearing masks or social distancing.  

My city and county had a mask ordinance before the state ordered one and so many places in our community had masking rules in place in the spring even.  

But I am really dreading the next few weeks.  Other than medical, I am mostly staying home though I really need to get my compression stockings (when that store opens up) and then start walking again.

[Pen]

Speaking of animals and Spain, my Spanish relative says lockdown in Spain was extreme, so that people needing to walk dogs got out at all 2-3 times daily versus essentially being on house arrest or rare going out to shop otherwise . This probably why dog walking corresponded to higher rates CV19. 

[popmom]

On 12/8/2020 at 1:05 PM, TravelingChris said:

Yes,  And I know they are the highest now but we also have the highest number of COVID positive patients now and percentage wise, the death rate has dropped,  Also, my city has lower death rate than many of the others.  Part of that is that many parts of my state are rural with no hospitals nearby.  Many hospitals have closed since I have moved here in 2011 though in my county, we have actually built another hospital.  Also, as I expected, parts of the state aren't obeying the masking order.  A lady I know was telling me about her relatives in Eufala, Al and her relatives don't meet others who were the masks like they do.  

Oh and we actually have 3 universities and 2 community colleges.  I know that at least one ended in person classes before Thanksgiving and didn't have people return. I am not sure the status of the other two though I did see that UAH had basketball games somewhere this last weekend.

DH and I were wondering whether our mask mandate is making a difference. I looked up all of our surrounding states--none of which have the mandate. There doesn't seem to be any difference in any of the numbers I could see--percent positivity, infection rate, daily new cases per 100,000. So do you think most of the state is ignoring the mandate? Where I live and where my girls are in school, everyone masks in public. Today was the first day I have seen someone not masked. I drove to another suburb to buy a Christmas tree at Lowe's. There was one couple in there shopping completely without mask. I'm trying to study the data county by county in our state, but it's hard to find what I'm looking for. I did see this which shows that risk levels are really random throughout the state.

I'm just trying to figure out what's going on since I'm seeing really good compliance with masking. Why aren't we better off than our neighbors?

[popmom]

2 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/blZKw/4/

This is a map of my state and COVID positivity rates.  Yesterday, in my local news, a certified nurse practitioner from a neighboring county that has horrible stats was interviewed.  She was saying that there are a lot of people in her county getting COVID and a lot of those people weren't wearing masks or social distancing.  

My city and county had a mask ordinance before the state ordered one and so many places in our community had masking rules in place in the spring even.  

But I am really dreading the next few weeks.  Other than medical, I am mostly staying home though I really need to get my compression stockings (when that store opens up) and then start walking again.

oops just saw this. Maybe this will shed some light on it. This map is exactly what I was looking for, but I'm not sure can explain why we are so bad off. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by popmom

[Ausmumof3]

US has had over 3000 deaths so far today for the first time.

[Pen]

On 12/8/2020 at 9:27 AM, TravelingChris said:

I know that from my local updates- we have the most cases we have had since the pandemic began but most of the deaths actually occurred earlier in the pandemic.  The hospital officials are saying that while numbers are up, deaths are way down.  

this is not what I was looking for which was month to month comparisons for the past few years, however this yearly death rate chart since 1950 is itself interesting -

rate is not constant clearly

and is not hugely spiked for 2020 thus far

(and given how close we are to year end is probably unlikely to go up above 9 as it was for many years of my lifetime — I am probably older than many on here—maybe u r too)

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/12/09/health/fda-over-counter-covid-test/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
 

First over the counter at home test kit for Covid given emergency use approval.  

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, Pen said:

this is not what I was looking for which was month to month comparisons for the past few years, however this yearly death rate chart since 1950 is itself interesting -

rate is not constant clearly

and is not hugely spiked for 2020 thus far

(and given how close we are to year end is probably unlikely to go up above 9 as it was for many years of my lifetime — I am probably older than many on here—maybe u r too)

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

 

The note says all 2020 and later data are UN projections and do not include the impacts of COVID19 disease.  Does that mean there’s no 2020 data on the chart yet?

[kbutton]

36 minutes ago, popmom said:

I'm just trying to figure out what's going on since I'm seeing really good compliance with masking. Why aren't we better off than our neighbors?

I get the impression from more than one locality that there seems to be an ebb and flow to masking and not masking by store and time of day--for instance, in the same town, people will say mask compliance is awesome and say it's terrible. I suspect maybe older folks are going during hours that older and more careful folks shop, see a bunch of cautious maskers, and are happy. Then younger people who work might have to shop later when non-maskers are there, not during the hours for older folks, and the crowd shopping then really is less compliant.

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The note says all 2020 and later data are UN projections and do not include the impacts of COVID19 disease.  Does that mean there’s no 2020 data on the chart yet?

my understanding is that it is close to accurate up to “current” and projected after “current” where line is on the graph

 

I know that numbers take a month or so to come in fully ... but unlikely to change hugely from CV19... for rest of year ... a sudden mass event like asteroid or kinetic weapon could change that

[Ausmumof3]

11 minutes ago, Pen said:

my understanding is that it is close to accurate up to “current” and projected after “current” where line is on the graph

 

I know that numbers take a month or so to come in fully ... but unlikely to change hugely from CV19... for rest of year ... a sudden mass event like asteroid or kinetic weapon could change that

The percentage increase seems to be about 1pc is that right? The graph is a little hard to read/interpret.

[Pen]

Here’s a visual for excess deaths — they don’t report recent weeks due to reporting lag:

 

[popmom]

26 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I get the impression from more than one locality that there seems to be an ebb and flow to masking and not masking by store and time of day--for instance, in the same town, people will say mask compliance is awesome and say it's terrible. I suspect maybe older folks are going during hours that older and more careful folks shop, see a bunch of cautious maskers, and are happy. Then younger people who work might have to shop later when non-maskers are there, not during the hours for older folks, and the crowd shopping then really is less compliant.

Could be, but I'm not seeing it. I'm "older", but I tend to shop when younger working people shop. Anywhere from noon to closing. I have done my shopping at all times of day except early morning. 100% mask compliance until the one incident today. I shop at 3 different grocery stores weekly, an occasional trip to Costco, even rarer trip to somewhere to buy clothing. Church is the only place that I know of where people take off their masks--as long as there is no singing or talking. But there hasn't even been a case of COVID that could be tied to our church services. (I'm not comfortable going, but this is the info I get in our newsletter updating on precautions.)

All I can figure is that there are a lot of people gathering socially in homes. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by popmom

[Ausmumof3]

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid
 

this is useful when looking at recent death data.  Typically only 50pc of deaths are fully recorded after four weeks, 75pc by eight weeks, close to 100pc after a year.  (This is global so I’m sure some countries are more or less efficient)

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The percentage increase seems to be about 1pc is that right? The graph is a little hard to read/interpret.

yes up ~ 1% each year since around 2008 whether or not there was a pandemic

 

(~ 1% per year with population of 330 million is around what ? what’s been suggested for excess deaths from CV19  ?) 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Pen

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, Pen said:

yes up ~ 1% each year since around 2008 whether or not there was a pandemic

I can’t view the years I don’t think I’m on my phone only the general trend.

[Ausmumof3]

 

12 minutes ago, Pen said:

yes up ~ 1% each year since around 2008 whether or not there was a pandemic

The CDC chart has a percentage compared to the average for the same week over the last three years if that’s any help?

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

 

[popmom]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

Speaking of animals and Spain, my Spanish relative says lockdown in Spain was extreme, so that people needing to walk dogs got out at all 2-3 times daily versus essentially being on house arrest or rare going out to shop otherwise . This probably why dog walking corresponded to higher rates CV19. 

Dog walking corresponds to higher rates of COVID? Just in Spain or overall? 

[Spryte]

9 minutes ago, popmom said:

Dog walking corresponds to higher rates of COVID? Just in Spain or overall? 

I think she’s referring to this study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935120311208

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

DH and I were wondering whether our mask mandate is making a difference. I looked up all of our surrounding states--none of which have the mandate. There doesn't seem to be any difference in any of the numbers I could see--percent positivity, infection rate, daily new cases per 100,000. So do you think most of the state is ignoring the mandate? Where I live and where my girls are in school, everyone masks in public. Today was the first day I have seen someone not masked. I drove to another suburb to buy a Christmas tree at Lowe's. There was one couple in there shopping completely without mask. I'm trying to study the data county by county in our state, but it's hard to find what I'm looking for. I did see this which shows that risk levels are really random throughout the state.

I'm just trying to figure out what's going on since I'm seeing really good compliance with masking. Why aren't we better off than our neighbors?

We are lower than our neighbors who don't have statewide orders.  Also some of the areas where masking is not as common in our state, even though that is an order, are the surrounding counties to us and they have higher numbers.

I also saw that one of our neighboring states, TN, had a study showing that cities that have masking are having less problems than areas without it.

Also, there is masking and there is masking.  I see people wearing masks incorrectly or with large gaps or just not very secure masks at all.  I haven't been seeing the dopey masks I was seeing in the spring, but still- lots of people have ill  fitting masks.  And then, even N95, which is what I wear, just reduces your chance of getting it by 95%.  There is this 5%,.

However, there has been some preliminary data showing that mask wearing lessens the severity of COVID if you get it.

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

oops just saw this. Maybe this will shed some light on it. This map is exactly what I was looking for, but I'm not sure can explain why we are so bad off. 

Are you in Alabama?  If so, where?

[Pen]

55 minutes ago, popmom said:

Dog walking corresponds to higher rates of COVID? Just in Spain or overall? 

afaik just Spain - where extreme lockdown exempted necessary dog walks

 

(tried to put a picture of Madrid narrow streets - cannot but easy to look up online)

 

 

especially if in crowded cities with narrow streets having to walk dog could add numerous casual contacts

Edited December 10, 2020 by Pen

[popmom]

20 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

We are lower than our neighbors who don't have statewide orders.  Also some of the areas where masking is not as common in our state, even though that is an order, are the surrounding counties to us and they have higher numbers.

I also saw that one of our neighboring states, TN, had a study showing that cities that have masking are having less problems than areas without it.

Also, there is masking and there is masking.  I see people wearing masks incorrectly or with large gaps or just not very secure masks at all.  I haven't been seeing the dopey masks I was seeing in the spring, but still- lots of people have ill  fitting masks.  And then, even N95, which is what I wear, just reduces your chance of getting it by 95%.  There is this 5%,.

However, there has been some preliminary data showing that mask wearing lessens the severity of COVID if you get it.

 

19 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Are you in Alabama?  If so, where?

I'm in North Shelby County. B'ham metro. To the bolded...where are you seeing this? By what metric? I'm not seeing anything of the sort. The only significant difference I could find was that TN has pretty much maxed out ICU beds, and AL is doing better on that one statistic. But everything else I'm looking at says we are no better off than our neighbors.

Even poor fitting masks should reduce spread. It won't protect the wearer, but it should help reduce spread.

ETA: I am very pro mask mandate AT THE STATE LEVEL. I'm very grateful that our governor is standing strong for those who are most vulnerable to this disease. But I would still like an explanation as to why it doesn't seem to be helping right now. I firmly believe masks help, so where is the breakdown and what can be done about it?

Edited December 10, 2020 by popmom

[TravelingChris]

Well popmom,. I am in the northern part of the state.  One specific thing that was addressed in my local news was that northern AL has a lot of commuters coming from areas of TN that are not under any mask mandate.

Being in Shelby County, unless you travel up here, you wouldn't know the very sharp difference in culture, educational levels, and economics between my metro area and some of the surrounding counties.  I haven't been driving into them to test mask usage and social distancing but I have been hearing the pleas of the health officials in those counties who seem to be suggesting that people are not masking nor social distancing.  And I got to think that our LT Gov who got COVID from not wearing masks and who still thinks we shouldn't wear masks and is from one of those counties is just more typical of those counties than the much more commonsense Mayor and County Commision Supervisor that we have in our county.  

We didn't have a mask order here until early July.  I didn't see a big difference when we got one. A bit of one but not that much.  

And I don't know where I saw the map- probably somebody posted it here- but I saw one earlier this week or late last week that showed that AL had less spread than surrounding states.

[popmom]

15 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Well popmom,. I am in the northern part of the state.  One specific thing that was addressed in my local news was that northern AL has a lot of commuters coming from areas of TN that are not under any mask mandate.

Being in Shelby County, unless you travel up here, you wouldn't know the very sharp difference in culture, educational levels, and economics between my metro area and some of the surrounding counties.  

I'm not trying to be snarky at all but this made me giggle.  I have deep, deep, DEEP roots in Cullman and Madison Counties. edited for privacy🙂

Edited December 10, 2020 by popmom

[Ausmumof3]

59 minutes ago, popmom said:

 

I'm in North Shelby County. B'ham metro. To the bolded...where are you seeing this? By what metric? I'm not seeing anything of the sort. The only significant difference I could find was that TN has pretty much maxed out ICU beds, and AL is doing better on that one statistic. But everything else I'm looking at says we are no better off than our neighbors.

Even poor fitting masks should reduce spread. It won't protect the wearer, but it should help reduce spread.

ETA: I am very pro mask mandate AT THE STATE LEVEL. I'm very grateful that our governor is standing strong for those who are most vulnerable to this disease. But I would still like an explanation as to why it doesn't seem to be helping right now. I firmly believe masks help, so where is the breakdown and what can be done about it?

One factor I’ve seen mentioned not specific to Alabama is that states next to states with bad outbreaks have more trouble due to people travelling back and forward between the two so it kind of spills over.

[popmom]

Just now, Ausmumof3 said:

One factor I’ve seen mentioned not specific to Alabama is that states next to states with bad outbreaks have more trouble due to people travelling back and forward between the two so it kind of spills over.

This crossed my mind. It makes sense.

[TravelingChris]

10 minutes ago, popmom said:

I'm not trying to be snarky at all but this made me giggle.  I have deep, deep, DEEP roots in Cullman and Madison Counties. lol I know very well the difference in culture, educational levels, and economics in the entire state--especially N Alabama. Lake Martin is named after my great uncle Thomas Martin (one of few who founded Alabama Power). So is Lake Logan Martin--named after his brother who was attorney general of our state at one time. I also am very familiar with my family who were dirt poor farmers in Cullman County. Another great uncle was Milton Cummings--married to my grandmommy's sister Vastice and lived in the Rhett-Moore home in the Twickenham District.--hence Cummings Research Park in H'ville. Cummings helped make H'vill the technology center that it is. H'ville is my home town. I was born at H'ville Hospital. I have many relatives there.

ETA: just for fun, I come from a long line of feminists. My great Grandmother Carrie Ivy was the first woman in Madison County to cut her hair short. 🙂 And my Grandmommy Eva Ivy Taylor was a full time working mom in the 50's and 60's when it wasn't yet the cool thing to do. (She worked for Milton Cummings as his bookkeeper.) I'm very proud of them so pardon the brag. 🙂

Very cool history.

I am not as familiar with Cullman County so don't know if they are more like Appalachians or not.  Well then you know that Marshall County and Jackson County and parts of Morgan County, DeKalb county, etc -you find people who have a very, very different mindset than what is typical in Huntsville- much more similar to attitudes in Appalachia.     And the people that my son has met and described to me seem to not be the kind of people who take kindly to "authorities" telling them what to do.  (My son meets lots of rural people because he is a caver and many of the caves he goes to are in surrounding counties). 

But, at least much earlier in the pandemic, the place I saw the most unmasked people was a trendy bakery/cafe and it was younger women than me who lunch.  (It wasn't my type of place so I haven't been back and have no idea if they are still going).  And no, I don't mean, they were unmasked during lunch- I mean while in the bakery shop area before lunch.