So now punctuation is rude . . .

[OneStepAtATime]

This is an issue for people with much better eyesight than mine.

I agree.

Edited January 5, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[Hoggirl]

I just posted about this on FB, and I'm getting a lot of funny comments from my OLD friends.

[teachermom2834]

Funny- I have never heard this but I have just over the last month or so stopped punctuating my one sentence replies. I noticed I was doing it but I thought I was just being lazy. But there I go being cool and hip again. 😂

[Ellie]

Then I shall be rude.

[Tanaqui]

I'm in the group who uses correct grammar.

 

But not the group that knows that grammar and orthography aren't synonymous terms.

 

But honestly, guys, don't overthink this. Texting is mostly informal. If you send a single sentence - or a single word! - and you end with a period, it can look like you're deliberately choosing a more formal register than is usual for that medium. That increase in formality can make your message seem stiff or terse.

 

It's just like in speech. If you go to hang with your buddy at the bar and you greet him with "Hello, Mr. Lastname. I'm glad to see that you are well." instead of "Hey, Nickname! Great to see you!" it sounds a little weird. It's not that the first phrasing is wrong, it's just in the wrong context. (Unless you always talk like that, in which case your friends are probably used to it. Same with texting. If you always shove a period at the end of even very short texts, they'll go "Oh, it's just her again, being weird" instead of wondering why you're judging them.)

[Ausmumof3]

Who knew? My conversations are all a range of punctuated and not and somewhat ...

[laundrycrisis]

I think it’s because texting is sort of like a live conversation, more than an email is. And a period is like turning your back to the other person in the middle of the conversation, or being cold and abrupt. But IMO anyone who is truly offended by punctuation should get over themselves anyway. Text however you like to do it !

[Arcadia]

I text a paragraph most of the time so if I don’t use a period, I will be using lots and lots of commas. My friends are used to my run on sentences with lots of commas and one period only anyway for the entire paragraph.

 

My most recent text was to a friend explaining how to read her child’s SAT score report so it was a very long text, complete with urls and page numbers.

[Sandwalker]

I just looked back at my text chains, and all the young people don't use a period at the end of the text! There are some exclamation points from did, however. I'm going to drop the last period from my texts now

Edited January 5, 2018 by Sandwalker

[Sandwalker]

Can we get an example of a sentence that is rude with a period at the end?

No.

 

;)

[El...]

I think leaving the period off the end of the sentence (or, well, sentence fragment) is the texting equivalent of vocal fry.  It means gentleness, trailing off, and insecurity.  

 

I punctuate.  I'm like that.   :leaving: 

 

I'm also not so young, so maybe I can draw on old-person-privilege.

[frogger]

The only teens I text with is my children and one other homeschool families teens and they use punctuation because they are clueless. I asked my son if all his pals used periods and he said it was a mix depending on who, etc. I looked through my texts and the only one who wasn't stuck in the dark ages with me is a high English teacher. Of course, she would pick up on that stuff fast. :)

[Carrie12345]

I punctuate.  I'm 40 years old and have been reading and writing for more than 35 years.  Punctuating is automatic, like coughing into my elbow or licking my peanut butter knife. It just happens.

 

Except, I'll admit, I've dropped a period here and there when rapid texting.  I was actually freaking out for the first few days with my iPhone because the keyboard doesn't have its punctuation marks as handy as my Note did.  Then I learned, through texting multiple sentences, that double spacing automatically adds a period.  So everyone who wants to poop on double spacing these days can kiss my exclamation mark, too!

 

I know it's not strictly an age thing.  My almost 60yo aunt doesn't punctuate, AND she uses Us and 2s.  And she doesn't even have kids to corrupt her!

 

 

[Word Nerd]

But not the group that knows that grammar and orthography aren't synonymous terms.

 

But honestly, guys, don't overthink this. Texting is mostly informal. If you send a single sentence - or a single word! - and you end with a period, it can look like you're deliberately choosing a more formal register than is usual for that medium. That increase in formality can make your message seem stiff or terse.

 

It's just like in speech. If you go to hang with your buddy at the bar and you greet him with "Hello, Mr. Lastname. I'm glad to see that you are well." instead of "Hey, Nickname! Great to see you!" it sounds a little weird. It's not that the first phrasing is wrong, it's just in the wrong context. (Unless you always talk like that, in which case your friends are probably used to it. Same with texting. If you always shove a period at the end of even very short texts, they'll go "Oh, it's just her again, being weird" instead of wondering why you're judging them.)

She said, overthinking this. ;)

[Guest]

When I read the initial post, I thought, “Oh, that’s stupid!†But after reading some responses, it makes more sense to me. I can see where it applies, even though I am normally a correct grammar, correct spelling, complete thoughts texter. I do remember one time I was texting with DD and I replied, “Fine.†She interpreted this as me annoyed and being short with her. So I can see that now, actually.

 

I’m not going to stop using a period for normal sentences, but I can see where it would be better to not use it in some circumstances.

[marbel]

My daughter and I discussed this recently.  Here's the example she gave me:

 

If we are in Walmart, and I am ready to go and need her to come to the front, if I say 
 

Ready to go

 

It just means I'm ready to go, finish up, and meet me at the front.  If I say 

 

Ready to go.

 

It implies I'm annoyed because I am really ready to get out of this store RIGHT NOW and you are taking too long and no I won't pay for your new lip product because you're keeping me waiting.

 

I can see what she means.  Now obviously a longer text with multiple sentences requires periods.  But not on the last sentence. 

 

My husband overheard us and went through some of his text messages. Most people do not use a period at the end of a text.  Old and young. 

 

No big deal.

[mom2scouts]

I have swype on my phone and it's pretty easily to text quickly, so I rarely give a short, terse answer. Instead of "ready to go", I would say "I'm ready to go. Are you done shopping?" or something similar. I'm not ready to give up punctuation (thinking of that company that lost millions due to a missing Oxford comma).

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I text with young people every day including my children and potential recruits and student-athletes. I have multiple conversations saved on my phone so I took a look through the first few. Greater than 90% use full punctuation in the texts, including terminal periods. My DS uses punctuation every time but then his texts are usually two to three words inquiring about food.  Tacos?  Pizza?  Grocery store?

 

Only one young woman repeatedly dropped the terminal period and it was after about a week's worth of texting and our relationship became more casual. However, she did use terminal punctuation again when discussing a topic of a more serious nature.

 

I wonder if the proper (or at least consistent) use of punctuation in texts is due to the hope that I will be able to help them eke out additional dollars in merit or financial aid.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I looked through DD's  texts and she does not use terminal periods but she does use lots of exclamations and question marks.

 

I used the example given above about "ready to go" with and without the terminal period. She agreed that the period implies anger or irritation.

 

No wonder she always thinks I'm upset. I always use a period. For every text. All the time.  Now, I have to remember to drop the period or to insert a smile emoji.

 

Holy canoli, life is complicated.

[Garga]

I think this thread is a good example of how older people immediately react to something new and villify it. We’ve had discussions on the boards in the past few months about how when we get old, we hope we’re not sticks-in-the-mud who poo-poo things that young people do.

 

Apparently, our good intentions not to poo-poo new things are being sorely tested right now.

 

Texting is a relatively new way of communication. We all know that most communication isn’t only about the words used, but is mostly about the body language and tone. Somewhere along the line, it’s been found that dropping that last period in a text can convey a specific tone.

 

I for myself, wanted to poo-poo this at first. But I am determined not to be an old fuddy-duddy. I’m going to drop the period on my last sentence in my texts now, so as to convey the tone I intend to convey in this relatively new form of communication. If you want to have a friendly tone, then the newly developed standard is to drop the period.

 

I do not believe that using punctuation to convey tone in a text message is going to make it so that book publishers and business letters all start dropping the periods, so this doesn’t need to threaten the homeschooling teacher in me. It’s a specific use of punctuation for a specific means of communication and was developed for a specific reason.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I looked through DD's texts and she does not use terminal periods but she does use lots of exclamations and question marks.

 

I used the example given above about "ready to go" with and without the terminal period. She agreed that the period implies anger or irritation.

 

No wonder she always thinks I'm upset. I always use a period. For every text. All the time. Now, I have to remember to drop the period or to insert a smile emoji.

 

Holy canoli, life is complicated.

Careful, always adding the smiling emoji can have its own connotation. Now I am off to search for the article about that.

 

😀

[J-rap]

I suppose texts are more like quick, casual conversations.  So, sometimes when you add a period, it suddenly makes your comment seem more serious and less friendly...  or at least people might read them that way.  Although in reality, I don't know too many people who would really be bothered by that!

 

 

[ktgrok]

Ds is only 20 and he hates when his friends use text speak.

My son is only 18 and he hates it too. And I asked him and he said it. It's not rude. I asked if it made it look like I was yelling and he said no. That is what exclamation marks are for.

[Hoggirl]

Garga, I fully intend to poo-poo things young people do. That's what old people are supposed to do. It's the circle of life. 😂

Lol!

 

I have followed this with great interest. To me, it's a bit of a two-way street. I wish Ds would I have told/explained this to me. I can listen to his (representing young people) view and then at least make an *informed* decision about what *I* want to do. Aren't we constantly telling our children about certain standards of behavior depending on context/circumstances? Hand-written thank you notes are a good example. I'm pretty sure Ds thinks they are silly, but he understands that most people who give him gifts have the *expectation* that they will receive one, because that is what is customary/appropriate/polite among our generation. So, for me, I would like to know what is considered customary/appropriate/polite among his. Doesn't mean I'll adopt it. Doesn't mean he'll continue with hand-written notes after he's off my payroll. But, I would at least like to know.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Hoggirl

[poppy]

I text with young people every day including my children and potential recruits and student-athletes. I have multiple conversations saved on my phone so I took a look through the first few. Greater than 90% use full punctuation in the texts, including terminal periods. My DS uses punctuation every time but then his texts are usually two to three words inquiring about food.  Tacos?  Pizza?  Grocery store?

 

Only one young woman repeatedly dropped the terminal period and it was after about a week's worth of texting and our relationship became more casual. However, she did use terminal punctuation again when discussing a topic of a more serious nature.

 

I wonder if the proper (or at least consistent) use of punctuation in texts is due to the hope that I will be able to help them eke out additional dollars in merit or financial aid.

 

If I was a teen, I'd use the most formal language I could around anything related to getting into college.  You don't talk to an adult who you are basically in a job interview with the same way you talk to your friends- code switching.  Makes sense.

[poppy]

I think leaving the period off the end of the sentence (or, well, sentence fragment) is the texting equivalent of vocal fry.  It means gentleness, trailing off, and insecurity.  

 

I punctuate.  I'm like that.   :leaving:

 

I'm also not so young, so maybe I can draw on old-person-privilege.

 

The equivalent of vocal fry in texting is too many smileys.

[Garga]

Lol!

 

I have followed this with great interest. To me, it's a bit of a two-way street. I wish Ds would I have told/explained this to me. I can listen to his (representing young people) view and then at least make an *informed* decision about what *I* want to do. Aren't we constantly telling our children about certain standards of behavior depending on context/circumstances? Hand-written thank you notes are a good example. I'm pretty sure Ds thinks they are silly, but he understands that most people who give him gifts have the *expecation* that they will receive one, because that is what is customary/appropriate/polite among our generation. So, for me, I would like to know what is considered customary/appropriate/polite among his. Doesn't mean I'll adopt it. Doesn't mean he'll continue with hand-written notes after he's off my payroll. But, I would at least like to know.

 

Yes.  This.  I don't accept things that younger people just because they do it.  But I would like to know what's going on and not immediately huff out, "Well that's dumb!" and then go about my way.  I hope to be the sort of person who says, "Huh.  Why do you do that?" and gather enough information to then decide for myself whether I want to change or not.

 

I have to say the knee-jerk "No!" reaction really bugs me.  But if someone says, "Yeah, I heard about that and thought it over and have decided that I want to keep doing X instead of changing to Y," then I'm ok with that.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Garga

[AppleGreen]

I bet writing complete, coherent sentences is super offensive.  :laugh:  :001_rolleyes:

 

Good thing I have a limited text network.

[Pawz4me]

I just had a text conversation with DS22 and I'm feeling both proud and ashamed of myself that I intentionally left off terminal periods. :lol:

[Tenaj]

Thanks to this thread I now understand an interaction I had via texting this week.  Someone needed me to check on something for them which involved me making a phone call.  This person is a non-related younger friend (in her mid twenties).  I made the phone call, let her know via text and she thanked me.  I replied, "No problem."  Then she said, "Sorry!".

 

At the time I didn't realize why she said sorry . . . I wasn't annoyed at all, but maybe she read into my "." that I was annoyed?  

 

Now what do I do?  Apologize for being unintentially short?  This person and I have common friends but really don't interact except for once a year or so. 

[rainbowmama]

I don't think of it as rude, but I do think that it makes people sound angry

[Word Nerd]

I have to say the knee-jerk "No!" reaction really bugs me.  But if someone says, "Yeah, I heard about that and thought it over and have decided that I want to keep doing X instead of changing to Y," then I'm ok with that.

 

You're just assuming it's the former and not the latter, though. 

[xixstar]

Well apparently I'm always being rude to DH, I always text in complete sentences and he always texts in snippets of phrases. 

[xixstar]

I don't think of it as rude, but I do think that it makes people sound angry

 

This just boogles my mind. But so much is lost with text communication. I'm always assuming everyone hears my tone of voice and mannerism when I text -- they probably don't. 

[Guest]

Careful, always adding the smiling emoji can have its own connotation. Now I am off to search for the article about that.

 

😀

Yes, there is a whole seedy underbelly of meaning in emojis for young people. DS told me not to send him texts with the heart-eyed emoji. It does not mean the same thing to him as what I intend it to mean.

 

Same wth the eggplant icon.

[Raifta]

I, for one, will continue to merrily punctuate when I feel like it (most of the time) and fail to punctuate on rare occasions when I am feeling lazy.  

 

I stopped after I read that article a while ago. I think it's rude because it adds an implied tone equivalent to a serious face and a flat stare at the end of a sentence. Texts are always tone-ambiguous, so I don't want to add anything that even suggests I'm ticked off or otherwise unimpressed. Its easy enough just to not punctuate your last sentence

 

I am amused by the fact that your username has a period at the end!

[Garga]

You're just assuming it's the former and not the latter, though.

 

Good point. Most likely some were knee-jerk rejections and some were considered and weighed rejections.

[Garga]

I told my Spanish student I’d learned about the no punctuation thing and he told me that’s it’s also friendly to add extra letters to words sometimes like “hellooooâ€.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Garga

[poppy]

What would the weighed reaction to "I hear now that it's considered rude, and I will continue to do it anyway?"

I don't care enough to change is a legit reason to behave -- we all do it about some things.

But, I can't see it as thoughtful. Maybe I'm missing something. What is the message meant to be conveyed by opting out of etiquette?

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

What would the weighed reaction to "I hear now that it's considered rude, and I will continue to do it anyway?"

 

I don't care enough to change is a legit reason to behave -- we all do it about some things.

But, I can't see it as thoughtful. Maybe I'm missing something. What is the message meant to be conveyed by opting out of etiquette?

The thing is, it is not a universal etiquette even among young people based on many of our experiences from actually asking young people. So it’s ok not to take one random article as the Emily Post of texting. The young people I know are smart enough not to assume anger or offense where there is none. I’m smart enough to communicate what I need to communicate without deliberately causing offense. I think rigidity can go both ways.

[marbel]

This is cracking me up.  My daughter and I talked about it again in the car today.  She basically said "You shouldn't worry about it because people will cut you slack on stuff like this, because, well, not that you're old, but, you know, you're older."

 

And as an aside, maybe someone else already said this, but she scoffs at the idea that young people use "text speak" such as "c u later" now. I think that mostly went out with flip-phones because texting is so tedious. At least, in her crowd/experience. The only person who uses it with me is my MIL who is 78 years old.

[Word Nerd]

The thing is, it is not a universal etiquette even among young people based on many of our experiences from actually asking young people. So it’s ok not to take one random article as the Emily Post of texting. The young people I know are smart enough not to assume anger or offense where there is none. I’m smart enough to communicate what I need to communicate without deliberately causing offense. I think rigidity can go both ways.

 

This. It's far from being universal etiquette.

[bolt.]

I am amused by the fact that your username has a period at the end!

When I first adopted it, it needed to be 5 characters (possibly not on this board)... and I don't think I was cool enough to be texting at the time.

 

Feel free to imagine me with my arms crossed glowering at you all!

[Kassia]

. DS told me not to send him texts with the heart-eyed emoji. It does not mean the same thing to him as what I intend it to mean.

 

 

 

Uh-oh.  I use this one with my sons all the time! 

[amy g.]

I just asked my college kid, who is interested in punctuation, about this.

 

She said that texting is communication. Good communication involves taking your audience into account. It is rude not to. She said It is also rude to insist that punctuation must be eternally static and never evolving.

 

That said, my 11 year old just got a phone for Christmas. She uses it to listen to audio books and text her sisters. One sister attempted to reassure me about the job that I’m doing educating 11 year old.

 

She said, “Mom, her texts are just like those from my friends. She is always careful to use correct spelling, grammar and punctuation.â€

 

Once Dd forwarded me a text her dad had sent her that was full of text speak. I’m sure he was just teasing her, so I didn’t say anything about it.

 

Then he sent me a “Love u†text.

 

I told him that is a divorce able offense. I don’t care if other people do it, but I don’t sleep with anyone who thinks u = you.

 

He promised to take audience into account from then on!

[poppy]

The thing is, it is not a universal etiquette even among young people based on many of our experiences from actually asking young people. So it’s ok not to take one random article as the Emily Post of texting. The young people I know are smart enough not to assume anger or offense where there is none. I’m smart enough to communicate what I need to communicate without deliberately causing offense. I think rigidity can go both ways.

 

Sure but what about the, like, 15 people in this thread confirming it?

It's truly not a big deal , but , it isn't "one random article" either.  It's not like people are saying "I don't believe this is true" they are saying "I hear that it's an expectation but I don't care".

 

Which- again - is fine. We all decide we don't care enough to follow etiquette rules sometimes, ALL of us. But it's not the same as thinking it's bad advice / not true.

 

[Tanaqui]

I think leaving the period off the end of the sentence (or, well, sentence fragment) is the texting equivalent of vocal fry.  It means gentleness, trailing off, and insecurity.

 

Young people today do not consider vocal fry a sign of gentleness, trailing off, or insecurity. They associate vocal fry with authority, confidence, and social status. Source:  studies posted on LanguageLog or LanguageHat or another linguistics blog I follow.

 

She said, overthinking this. ;)

 

Ha ha. I gave this matter the precisely correct amount of thought! :)

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Tanaqui

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sure but what about the, like, 15 people in this thread confirming it?

It's truly not a big deal , but , it isn't "one random article" either.  It's not like people are saying "I don't believe this is true" they are saying "I hear that it's an expectation but I don't care".

 

Which- again - is fine. We all decide we don't care enough to follow etiquette rules sometimes, ALL of us. But it's not the same as thinking it's bad advice / not true.

 

 

Well, I'm not one of those 15 people.  I am, however, one of the people who gets texts from a number of young people (of various demographics) who doesn't see this as a universal truth when I peruse even their texts to me.  Perhaps it is their revised etiquette for texting a middle aged woman.  Perhaps not.  I don't invade their privacy to look at their texts to other young people.  But when I ask them, they laugh and just shrug.  Sometimes they use punctuation.  Sometimes they don't.  Just like I do. 

 

As far as the 15 people confirming it, I assume that some are joking.  And that most have found it not to be an issue in their life with the specific people that they text - which could just be family anyway.  So no, it doesn't matter to them because it doesn't cause issues for them or for the people they text. 

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Yes, there is a whole seedy underbelly of meaning in emojis for young people. DS told me not to send him texts with the heart-eyed emoji. It does not mean the same thing to him as what I intend it to mean.

 

Same wth the eggplant icon.

(bolding mine)

 

I don't even want to know.

:leaving:

 

(off to google emoji meanings)

 

Edited: Well now, that was an education.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Scoutermom

[mom2scouts]

I think this thread is a good example of how older people immediately react to something new and villify it. We’ve had discussions on the boards in the past few months about how when we get old, we hope we’re not sticks-in-the-mud who poo-poo things that young people do.

 

Apparently, our good intentions not to poo-poo new things are being sorely tested right now.

 

Texting is a relatively new way of communication. We all know that most communication isn’t only about the words used, but is mostly about the body language and tone. Somewhere along the line, it’s been found that dropping that last period in a text can convey a specific tone.

 

I for myself, wanted to poo-poo this at first. But I am determined not to be an old fuddy-duddy. I’m going to drop the period on my last sentence in my texts now, so as to convey the tone I intend to convey in this relatively new form of communication. If you want to have a friendly tone, then the newly developed standard is to drop the period.

 

I do not believe that using punctuation to convey tone in a text message is going to make it so that book publishers and business letters all start dropping the periods, so this doesn’t need to threaten the homeschooling teacher in me. It’s a specific use of punctuation for a specific means of communication and was developed for a specific reason.

 

Eh, even when I was a teen I thought lots of the "cool fads" were stupid and shallow and refused to participate. I didn't feel a need to be one of the cool kids. I guess I was an old fuddy-duddy long before my time. Interestingly, I liked to wear high topped Converse as a teen, something that was absolutely NOT cool or acceptable for girls. I was told on a regular basis that "girls don't wear those!" I giggle a bit when I see all the tween and teen girls making a big deal about how they are so cool when wearing high top Converse. Apparently, I'm always following or not following at the wrong time. :lol: