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A church just dropped about 20 teens in my neighborhood


Moxie
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There's a new trick here I've met a few times now, where pair of (usually) young women come to the door asking for help with their "homework" from "Language School" (they have all been ESL speakers, almost all Asian). They then produce a bible and start asking if you understand the meaning of certian verses. UGH! I chalk it up to another layer of the dishonesty I keep seeing in religion.

 

 

That is a new layer of trickery. I guess I have to give them credit for being inventive. Edited by LucyStoner
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Religion is personal. It confers a personal benefit. Let's say that I am an evangelical denomination that requires door-to-door proselytizing. I can say that my motives are altruistic, but that's slightly (to extremely, depending on the situation) disingenuous. I am intruding on another person's autonomy because my religion requires it. The intrusion of the other person's autonomy benefits **me**. If I do not do this requirement, I risk my own **personal** salvation. I am doing this to avoid damnation or whatever Bad Thing happens to people who don't follow the religious requirements. Now maybe if the other person decides to convert to my religion, they might attain some personal benefit down the line. But that person, like myself, makes that decision based on what they think is best for them. It ultimately is a selfish and self-serving decision. People follow religions because they believe it is somehow beneficial to their own lives. 

 

In my ideal world, religions would not impose themselves on people. The tenets regarding people of other beliefs should be nothing more than "respect them and be neighborly." If you want to wear shirts or wrap your car in ads that say, "Ask me about my religion!" No problem. Knock yourself out. But don't pretend your motives aren't ultimately self-serving if that's a requirement of faith. It's not about the other person. First and foremost, it's about YOU satisfying YOUR requirements to YOUR religion. 

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Evangelicalism is at the bottom line about power. Teens on busses and little old ladies don't benefit from that power, to be sure. They are the on the front lines amassing more power for those who already hold power. Warm bodies turned spiritual warriors is the goal. There is an overarching movement in this country to gather up power like a storm cloud. That cloud has been building since the moral majority of the 80s and has found its natural home in the evangelical mega-churches and has bled over into the political sphere. And you know what they say about power and corruption.

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I don't think the logic of it being mainly selfish, since it is ineffective, really works.  People who do this think, for either institutional or personal reasons, that God is requiring them to do it.  Which presumably he wouldn't do if it was ineffective or at least didn't do more good than harm.

 

Anyone who belongs to a group that teaches they should do this is likely to think it ought to be done for good reasons, not just because it is good for them.  I expect many of us have things we think are important that might seem annoying to others.

 

As far as doing altruistic things making us feel good about ourselves, that's pretty common.

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It isn't altruism if it isn't wanted.

 

What if my religion required I hand out canned foods to my neighbor every Saturday? My neighbors have their own canned goods, or they only use fresh and frozen foods. But every Saturday like clockwork I'm in a different part of town handing out canned goods no one wants. Canned goods are great if someone is hungry, but in general just about everyone gets rid of my canned goods one way or another. I do it to feel better about myself, but I'm not helping anyone. Better to figure out what people need or set up a food bank than to just push canned goods on people.

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Evangelicalism is at the bottom line about power. Teens on busses and little old ladies don't benefit from that power, to be sure. They are the on the front lines amassing more power for those who already hold power. Warm bodies turned spiritual warriors is the goal. There is an overarching movement in this country to gather up power like a storm cloud. That cloud has been building since the moral majority of the 80s and has found its natural home in the evangelical mega-churches and has bled over into the political sphere. And you know what they say about power and corruption.

 

This is, sadly, all too true. It's one of the major reasons I left Evangelicalism. Google "New Apostolic Reformation." :glare:

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We haven't had any door to door religious people here in the Midwest but we had JW and LDS all the time in FL.

 

The LDS teens never bothered me because they were quick to understand that I was a happy member of another faith and then they would always ask to help with whatever yard work I was doing (I had to be outside because I would never open the door to them). They were friendly and wouldn't bring up religion again.

 

The JW's who would come by were not so friendly so I learned to run inside and ignore when they were in the neighborhood.

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Evangelicalism is at the bottom line about power. Teens on busses and little old ladies don't benefit from that power, to be sure. They are the on the front lines amassing more power for those who already hold power. Warm bodies turned spiritual warriors is the goal. There is an overarching movement in this country to gather up power like a storm cloud. That cloud has been building since the moral majority of the 80s and has found its natural home in the evangelical mega-churches and has bled over into the political sphere. And you know what they say about power and corruption.

 

It is sad that people think that.  To me, evangelicalism is all about salvation by faith through grace.  It is about telling someone about my amazing Lord and Saviour and (hopefully) getting them to see Him the same way.  

 
It is not about amassing followers....(you are a Christian, awesome...no need to go to my church) or about political power.  That is not true Christianity.
 
The kind of "christianity"  that you are writing about in the post above does more harm than good to the kingdom of God.
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I dislike random people that are soliciting to knock at my door. Often when I'm at home, I'm not dressed to open the door if I'm not expecting anyone. I mean I am dressed, but probably no bra, because I want to be comfortable. I am often not home, so when I am, I want to relax or I am busying cleaning. I don't want to be interrupted doing either. A unexpected social visit would be welcome and I would run upstairs and change quickly, after I answered the door.

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I guess I don't understand why this would be obnoxious. Jehovah Witnesses were out in our neighborhood this week. Talked to the nice lady at the door for a moment, said "no thank you" and wished her a nice day. No big deal.

 

Just say you're not interested and move on. Door to door evangelism may not be time effective but our church has seen converts from the practice over the years.

 

And, just to be ornery for a moment, this week here on the boards a teen was widely praised for staging a protest over a dress-code but teens sharing their faith is somehow annoying. That seems a bit inconsistent.

How would you feel if I sent teens to your door to convince you to become atheist, or Muslim, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It's just rude to assume other people haven't chosen their religion after careful consideration.

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I hate door to door evangelism, salespeople, or anyone except little kids selling cookies, popcorn, candy, etc. The little kids are slightly annoying because I always feel sorry for them and buy even though I don't want it, but I don't blame them for what they do. I feel sorry for them and wonder where their parents are and why they let the kids walk around knocking on doors unattended.

 

Everyone else should know they are intruding. I even hate church visitors who show up when I've visited their church once or twice. Go away! We are not friends. 

 

I dislike it because I am shy and don't feel comfortable talking to strangers.

 

I have 4 kids and lots of pets and don't want to invite you, a stranger, in, and I don't want to leave them unattended inside.

 

I feel an obligation to be polite and kind and it's hard to do that when I want to hurry you away.

 

I have stuff to do!

 

I don't make significant purchases without research and I'm fully informed about all the world's major religions and don't care to discuss theology on my porch with strangers.

 

I don't think I'm unusual. My background religion was one that really pushed door to door evangelism. The leaders truly thought it was effective and they thought the reason the church was in decline was because people didn't do it often enough. I was dragged along by my parents every week at about the ages of 6-10. It was awful. My DH and the grandparents would love for the kids to do it, but I will never make them. I don't think it is safe for anyone. It's not safe for the people going door to door and it's not safe for residents to answer their doors to random strangers. Sure, my kids are nice, but the person opening the door doesn't know that and it could be anyone knocking on the door. 

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I don't think the logic of it being mainly selfish, since it is ineffective, really works. People who do this think, for either institutional or personal reasons, that God is requiring them to do it. Which presumably he wouldn't do if it was ineffective or at least didn't do more good than harm.

 

Anyone who belongs to a group that teaches they should do this is likely to think it ought to be done for good reasons, not just because it is good for them. I expect many of us have things we think are important that might seem annoying to others.

 

As far as doing altruistic things making us feel good about ourselves, that's pretty common.

The vacuum salesman may truly believe his vacuum cleaner is the Greatest Vacuum Ever and it will change my life, but he's ringing my doorbell for his own selfish reasons. Vacuums, religions, whatever--you're selling it, then own the self-serving motivation.

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I have been visited by JW proselytizers in the bathroom!

I kid you not. In the house where I had my first apartment, the bathrooms were out on the stairwell, and I was cleaning and painting before moving in, when the person knocked on the door of my toilet stall and said "I heard somebody at work here".

 

But reading the explanations here, I guess they just wanted to be helpful??

 

 

 

Edited by regentrude
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How would you feel if I sent teens to your door to convince you to become atheist, or Muslim, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It's just rude to assume other people haven't chosen their religion after careful consideration.

 

I would treat them the same as I treat the Jehovah Witness that came to my door earlier this week.  I would greet them politely, listen as long as it took to hear the gist of their message and then explain that I am a Christian and very satisfied with my faith and wish them a good day.

 

Why is there is a need to be rude?   If I'm busy, I'll tell them that and wish them well.  15-30 seconds of my time . . . no big deal.

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EvangelicalismOrganized Religion is at the bottom line about power. Teens on busses and little old ladies don't benefit from that power, to be sure. They are the on the front lines amassing more power for those who already hold power. Warm bodies turned spiritual warriors is the goal. There is an overarching movement in this country to gather up power like a storm cloud. That cloud has been building since the moral majority of the 80s and has found its natural home in the evangelical mega-churches and has bled over into the political sphere. And you know what they say about power and corruption.

And control.

Edited by fraidycat
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What I find even more offensive is when the evangelists go and knock on the door of developing countries. We've already colonized them once, destroying their culture in the process; how about leaving well enough alone?

Edited by bibiche
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Why is there is a need to be rude?   If I'm busy, I'll tell them that and wish them well.  15-30 seconds of my time . . . no big deal.

 

You must be better than I am at getting them to leave. They want to talk, keep me for just a few more minutes, schedule a time to come back when I have more time..., it's never 15-30 seconds here. 

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I have been visited by JW proselytizers in the bathroom!

I kid you not. In the house where I had my first apartment, the bathrooms were out on the stairwell, and I was cleaning and painting before moving in, when the person knocked on the door of my toilet stall and said "I heard somebody at work here".

 

But reading the explanations here, I guess they just wanted to be helpful??

You should've handed them a brush and a rag.

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I have to say I was amused by the jw women who came by yesterday to try to get me to watch a video about family life while I had three little kids and a husband with me. I politely said I've got that covered"and they moved on.

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It is sad that people think that. To me, evangelicalism is all about salvation by faith through grace. It is about telling someone about my amazing Lord and Saviour and (hopefully) getting them to see Him the same way.

 

It is not about amassing followers....(you are a Christian, awesome...no need to go to my church) or about political power. That is not true Christianity.

 

The kind of "christianity" that you are writing about in the post above does more harm than good to the kingdom of God.

I believe you believe that. You sound like a lovely person. I also believe that at the very top, evangelical Christianity is all about creating American Theocracy, regardless of what the leaders tell their flocks.

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How would you feel if I sent teens to your door to convince you to become atheist, or Muslim, or Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? It's just rude to assume other people haven't chosen their religion after careful consideration.

Or, we could knock on doors spouting the "good news" about paleo, vegetarian, vegan, fruititarian, mediterranean, low carb, high carb, etc. diets.

 

Or parenting techniques.

 

Or professing the wonders of yoga pants.

 

Or...

 

Everyone has strong beliefs and opinions of their own. Unless someone is actively seeking any type of outside opinion - approaching and "sharing" (proselytizing) is ALWAYS rude. Especially at a person's own home.

 

IOW, don't call me, I'll call you should be the rule of thumb here.

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We never did that and don't believe that way.

 

So here's my personal beef with that.

 

So someone says a prayer on their doorstep.

 

You have no way of knowing if they're sincere, if they are too polite to tell you to go away and they figure this is the quickest way to get rid of you, or whatever.

 

So now, they've said a prayer and these people are happy and say "You're going to heaven."

 

Okay.

 

The rest of their lives are they going to think they are "safe" and have no further spiritual need because they mouthed a prayer?

 

Would they not be better off to be reached by someone who cares enough to be a part of their life? Someone who will check on them, help them grow in Christ if they desire? Someone they're close enough to to ask the hard faith questions? The Christian walk isn't about mouthing a prayer that once. It's a lifetime commitment and on someone's doorstep it's hard to communicate all of that,
 

 

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The LDS teens never bothered me because they were quick to understand that I was a happy member of another faith and then they would always ask to help with whatever yard work I was doing (I had to be outside because I would never open the door to them). They were friendly and wouldn't bring up religion again.

 

 

The LDS missionaries are all adults, although I guess 18 and 19 is also technically a teen. (Most are 18-22ish).

 

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

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For those whose churches go door to door, were you brought into the faith that way, or was your spouse? I am curious about numbers. I cannot imagine that any large number of people would be reached in this way, but I can see that if it is how you, personally, found your faith, that must necessarily be compelling to you.

My (childhood) family became members of the church because of missionaries going door to door, although that is a simplification of everything. But if the missionaries had not been going door to door it is unlikely unless something else had occured.

 

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It seems counterproductive to drop off a bunch of immature kids to go proselytizing.  It kind of sets them up for disaster, not to mention abuse.

 

But... if you don't want to listen to them don't answer the door, or just tell them you're not interested and to please take your address off their visit-list. 

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I don't think people who evangelize are obnoxious.  I'm a Christian, but I would never do the door-knocking bit myself, because I think it's mostly ineffective and actually turns people off or sends the wrong message/misses the main point.  But heck, those teens are only doing what their church taught them.  They are probably earnest and well-meaning, the same as Jehovah's Witnesses or even people doing political door-knocking. Most people are simply trying to do the very best they can in this life, so I don't feel that being hateful or rude or thinking them obnoxious simply because I don't agree with their methods is the right attitude.  Now, I might not answer my door or I might just be upfront and politely tell them I'm not interested, but why make it such an angry ordeal?  

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I live on a main road in a struggling working class area that gets a lot of these. Thankfully the JWs have moved from wanting to talk to wanting to hand us a leaflet with details & dates of upcoming info meetings and some of the other churches are following suit or having stalls in the city centre regularly but some of the others are still awkwardly coming to my door.  We only get teens who are with adults though which seems safer for them. 

 

I have never felt listened to, comforted, or informed by a stranger on my doorstep. I have felt intimidated, I have felt insulted, I have felt entirely not listened to at all. I have had large men dragging around young immigrants who were obviously trying so hard to prove they were doing a good job to the dude even though they could barely speak English and obviously very anxious, I have had my beliefs and disabilities misconstrued and mocked, I have had people seeing I'm trying to teach my kids tell me how I needed to ensure my kids got the "whole picture" by teaching creationism [i was seconds from having my kids pull all the mythology books to show them how they're learning the "whole picture", we have some lovely ones on origin stories].

 

I try to be nice and not get angry but I have had to get one of my kids to get my spouse [who is far larger than me and thankfully works nights so is here during the day] on several occasions because they're preventing me from closing the door. I do not care how well-meaning some of them are, their intent is irrelevant when the result is harmful. My street is pretty much lined with signs on doors and windows requesting these and other door-steppers do not knock because of the issues with people feeling intimidated and manipulated -- and that's before we get to the scams and con-artists. I would think churches would stop if only to prevent being able to be used like that, we regularly get warnings from local police about distraction thieves and burglars who try to get into homes under the guise of religion or tip van men. 

 

There is literally a church in sight of my house with a large sign of open community events as well as a religious-based homeless youth hostel who distribute event things through our letterbox regularly. We are not going to miss it. Honestly, I would feel more inclined to hear and be comforted or whatever in a neutral public social space than having my day interrupted in my own home to do so. There are several befriending and such services that could be good for those who want to listen to and comfort people. As others said, there are so many other ways to help and inspire people to a way than being at someone's door telling me about Jesus. To me, that is very antagonistic, I automatically feel I am going to get hostility which I have gotten from them just like I am when UKIP are at the door to tell me about the immigration problem when I am an immigrant. 

Edited by SporkUK
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Whatever the cause, I'm solidly against imposing on people.

 

Local primary elections are coming up, and I'm a member of a local political group.  I skipped the phone bank, and I will skip canvasing.  I almost feel bad, because the group only serves to remind registered members of my own party to go vote.  We're not looking to flip anyone.  But I still find it annoying.

I got phone calls during the last election.  From my party.  I was polite to them b/c they were "on my side", but it still felt like an intrusion.

I also hate getting circulars in my mailbox for the grocery store I don't use.  :tongue_smilie:

 

My home, my phone, and, to a lesser degree, my mailbox are MY spaces. I don't understand why people feel they have some sort of right to get in my space and ask me to serve their needs.

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I don't think people who evangelize are obnoxious. I'm a Christian, but I would never do the door-knocking bit myself, because I think it's mostly ineffective and actually turns people off or sends the wrong message/misses the main point. But heck, those teens are only doing what their church taught them. They are probably earnest and well-meaning, the same as Jehovah's Witnesses or even people doing political door-knocking. Most people are simply trying to do the very best they can in this life, so I don't feel that being hateful or rude or thinking them obnoxious simply because I don't agree with their methods is the right attitude. Now, I might not answer my door or I might just be upfront and politely tell them I'm not interested, but why make it such an angry ordeal?

I will be frank. I think evangelical christians have sold this country down the river. As a woman, I also feel personally attacked by their agenda which is now the government agenda. It's all I can do to stay sane by staring at my trees and rosebushes. I don't want my peace soiled. I know live and let live seems to be a quaint thought these days.
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I believe you believe that. You sound like a lovely person. I also believe that at the very top, evangelical Christianity is all about creating American Theocracy, regardless of what the leaders tell their flocks.

 

While I might not put it that way, I think there is something to this - there is a very unique element to the form of religion that come out of the US that I don't really see elsewhere, unless it has been imported from the US.  It even seems to get into denominations that are really international - I've heard things from American Catholics, or Lutherans, for example, that aren't commonly found in other parts of the world.

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 I look at the Duggars/Dillards, who literally decided they needed to share the Good News in a country called El Salvador. El Freaking Salvador, whose name in English means The Savior. Um.....they know. 

 

 

Oh wow, I never got the irony before. Yikes. Ugh. 

 

Also, I wonder if putting a statue of the Virgin Mary in my yard would keep away the people proselytizing? I am not offended by them, i actually always feel badly for them out in the heat dressed in such conservative (hot!) clothes, and I know that they are wasting their time at my door, so I wish I could spare them that. Plus, knocking on my door means the dogs start barking which is a pain. 

 

So sincere question to those that have done this, or still do - would you skip a house that was obviously Catholic?

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I only once had a JW at my door. Comforted is about the last word I would use to describe the experience. Shamed? Intimidated? Those are much closer.

 

I have had LDS missionaries more often. They are just annoying because they knocked on my door. They are usually polite and bright eyed and not intimidating in any way. I tell them quickly I'm not interested and they usually ask if they can help me with anything. I always say no while running through a list of possible chores in my head. My neighbor had them rake leaves ones time :)

 

We had just moved to the Bible Belt 20 years ago and were living in a run down apartment complex when we got the teens from the Baptist church knocking but that has never happened again. My husband later met a teen from that church and asked her about it. She said they had canned responses for what the residents would say and said that Catholics and atheists were lumped together and would get the same pitch.

 

That was eye opening. To each their own but a faithful practicing Catholic is really not close to being an atheist. Really really far apart. But I know now that is how many groups view us. Oh well. They can pray for me. I believe in God and prayer and I don't mind anyone praying on my behalf. But please don't knock on my door.

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You think I am a dishonest person? Interesting.

 

We hope people will respond favorably to what we have to show them from the Bible. We no most will not. And yet it is still our commission to share.

 

I am not surprised that some people find it intrusive and rude. I disagree that most people find it that way.

 

Another sincere question....can you quote me where it says that you have to go door to door unannounced, versus sharing in a more general sense? 

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I was raised Catholic. Over time I realized I had no faith, but until maybe six months or so ago I was apathetic: Live and let live, you have your beliefs and I have mine. Lately I've watched professed Christians tie themselves in knots to proclaim holy what the Bible would recognize as false prophets. They support people who take food from the poor, healthcare from the sick, and jail or kill people instead of helping them find the mental health services they so desperately need, all for power and profit. It's disgusting; I'm disgusted. Im not longer apathetic; I'm furious.

 

If it helps at all a lot of Christians are furious as well. The Moral Monday protests are a visible example, but trust me there are plenty of us. And we are not happy to be lumped in with the ones you are mentioning. I've never had any religious stuff on my car but I'm tempted to put up something right next to my Birdie bumper sticker to see how many people it confuses :)

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Oh wow, I never got the irony before. Yikes. Ugh.

 

Also, I wonder if putting a statue of the Virgin Mary in my yard would keep away the people proselytizing? I am not offended by them, i actually always feel badly for them out in the heat dressed in such conservative (hot!) clothes, and I know that they are wasting their time at my door, so I wish I could spare them that. Plus, knocking on my door means the dogs start barking which is a pain.

 

So sincere question to those that have done this, or still do - would you skip a house that was obviously Catholic?

I have a statue. A shocking number of people have no idea who She is.

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I'm part of the problem. I'm an "encourager". I try to not answer the door. But, sometimes I don't think first and just answer the door. Then, I feel trapped and stand there and politely nod and take pamphlets. I even say "hmmm", etc. But I hate it. I am a noninterrupter, and have trouble interrupting to say No.

 

So, in effect, I have encouraged people or made them feel that it's ok.

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So sincere question to those that have done this, or still do - would you skip a house that was obviously Catholic?

I'm Catholic and don't go door to door but can answer from my experience. It depends on the church and person. I has a JW friend in highschool who said they were encouraged to skip Catholic houses. She didn't know why but found it odd.

 

I few years ago I had a JW woman come regularly who knew I was Catholic. I left my Bible by the door just for her visits. We'd spend about 5 minutes trying to convert each other. Once she came with someone else who clearly disapproved of the way we conversed and was disgusted when I try to talk Catholicism with her. The original woman never came back after that.

 

It was a few years before another JW came to my door. I told her I was Catholic and she should talk to her leaders to see if she's allowed to talk to me because the last person wasn't. Haven't seen any around in awhile.

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You can't put up a "No Junkmail" sign?

 

Mail carriers are legally obligated to deliver their load.  Even when it's phone books that 99.999% of recipients don't want.

(We have group mailboxes, and everyone piles the phone books up on the ground next to the trash can rather than take them home!)

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I'm Catholic and don't go door to door but can answer from my experience. It depends on the church and person. I has a JW friend in highschool who said they were encouraged to skip Catholic houses. She didn't know why but found it odd.

 

I few years ago I had a JW woman come regularly who knew I was Catholic. I left my Bible by the door just for her visits. We'd spend about 5 minutes trying to convert each other. Once she came with someone else who clearly disapproved of the way we conversed and was disgusted when I try to talk Catholicism with her. The original woman never came back after that.

 

It was a few years before another JW came to my door. I told her I was Catholic and she should talk to her leaders to see if she's allowed to talk to me because the last person wasn't. Haven't seen any around in awhile.

I assure you we are NOT encouraged to skip any house because of their religion. ( or lack of) Nor because of any statue. Maybe your teen friend was told that by someone but I have never ever heard that from any guideline. It is a shocking thing to me actually. To the point that if I heard that I would seek the person out who said it to get it clarified.

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I will be frank. I think evangelical christians have sold this country down the river. As a woman, I also feel personally attacked by their agenda which is now the government agenda. It's all I can do to stay sane by staring at my trees and rosebushes. I don't want my peace soiled. I know live and let live seems to be a quaint thought these days.

Just for the record for anyone who cares....we do not think of ourselves as evangelical Christians and we do not get involved in politics at all.

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Just for the record for anyone who cares....we do not think of ourselves as evangelical Christians and we do not get involved in politics at all.

Which part do you not think of yourself as (yes, I know that's horrendous grammar for this particular board)?

 

Are you not evangelical or not Christian?

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I assure you we are NOT encouraged to skip any house because of their religion. ( or lack of) Nor because of any statue. Maybe your teen friend was told that by someone but I have never ever heard that from any guideline. It is a shocking thing to me actually. To the point that if I heard that I would seek the person out who said it to get it clarified.

What about a 'No Solicitation' sign?

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Another sincere question....can you quote me where it says that you have to go door to door unannounced, versus sharing in a more general sense?

We attempt to follow the pattern of Jesus and the way he instructed his disciples

 

Luke 8:1

Matthew 10:11-13

Act 5:42, 20:20

 

Our goal is to reach people. So we do many things besides door to door.

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