Girls and Independent Walking

[Paige]

When would you be comfortable letting your daughter walk around the block by herself in a generally safe suburban neighborhood, assuming no special needs? Would the child's gender affect your choice?

 

[Joker]

My dds were able to start walking to school as well as in our neighborhood in middle school. They were both 11. School was half a mile away. They could also walk to 3 miles round trip to a smoothie place.

[Tsuga]

We live in a relatively safe (stray bullets extremely rare, cars drive pretty slowly) neighborhood.

 

My children are allowed to ride bikes around the block at seven. In our old neighborhood, in which we knew neighbors around the block, the girls were allowed to go around the block together and my youngest, at six.

 

I wouldn't say, however, that it was "independent" walking. On the contrary, what made her safe was the fact that she knew which neighbors lived where, and had friends and safe spots all around.

 

If anyone had tried to snatch her, she would only have to run one or two houses down, across the yard, at any given point. If we didn't know anybody it would be different. I'd be scared. I already know neighbors around my block now. Already, she only needs to run five houses--not return home--before a safe house. We've been here two weeks.

 

Our neighbors keep us safe.

 

That said, teens go missing in Seattle all the time. Generally they can be found on the streets, with "friends"--other very young adults who are addicts, or a boyfriend or girlfriend. While I wouldn't dismiss what texasmom33 wrote about (egads!!!) I have to wonder what the story is.

 

 

 

We live more in a country setting where houses are spread a couple of acres apart in most cases and there is no sidewalk.

 

They'd have to be older. 10 or 12, I don't know.

[HSMWB]

I let my 8 and 6 year old walk the dog around our neighborhood loop. I could see the only entry/exit from my front porch and they knew not to dawdle. Sometimes I would walk the other way and meet them halfway. By 7 my youngest would sometimes go by himself (with the dog). Gender was not a consideration. Would they pick up any potential dog poo was :-)

[AimeeM]

My daughter was about 7 or 8 when she started walking to and from friends' houses or riding her scooter up and down the street. Around the block and out of eyesight... about 9? 10?

 

I wouldn't allow my almost 7 year old son to do the same. Great neighborhood, but he just isn't as mature as DD was at the same age - he doesn't pay attention to cars and he's never met a stranger (I mean, literally, he will hug the delivery man if allowed).

[Tsuga]

I don't think it's paranoia when your family is watching people comb the fields. How terrible. :( I am sorry you are having to watch that. I hope they find them. Like I said, we are in a suburb. Quite different to a wide rural space where literally nobody can hear you scream.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tsuga

[Tsuga]

Oh how uncanny... I did Google it and from the article on Wikipedia:

 

" Ami Canaan Mann, director of the film The Texas Killing Fields, commented, "You could actually see the refineries that are in the South end of Texas City. You could see the I-45. But if you yelled no one would necessarily hear you, and if you ran there wouldn’t necessarily be anywhere to go."[3]"

 

Exactly why we feel safer in the city, nail on the head. Gives me the shivers. Again I am so sorry TexasMom.

[Tanaqui]

Um... five? Six? I'm sure that they were heading to the corner store by seven.

 

Just today, I saw a gaggle of kids playing behind our house (climbing on the garage roofs, which would worry me more if we didn't do the same thing 20 years ago) and I know for sure one of them is in kindy.

 

When the elder one was eleven, we started letting her travel into the city alone - like, up to the Met or the Natural History Museum, or to meet my mother at her office off Times Square - and the younger one has been heading into the city with her sister since her tenth birthday this year. This is fairly typical for where we are, as many kids go to middle school in Manhattan (because our zoned school is awful). Even if she attended our zoned school, she'd have to take public transportation alone to get there starting next year, as school bus service cuts off in seventh grade. (Well, some SI schools have exceptions due to our poor bus service, but we're North Shore, our bus service is peachy.)

[Tanaqui]

Quite different to a wide rural space where literally nobody can hear you scream.

 

“Do you know, Watson,†said he, “that it is one of the curses of a mind with a turn like mine that I must look at everything with reference to my own special subject. You look at these scattered houses, and you are impressed by their beauty. I look at them, and the only thought which comes to me is a feeling of their isolation and of the impunity with which crime may be committed there.â€

 

In this, Sherlock shares my opinion and yours. How can you be safe with your neighbors so far away? I always feel like it can't be quite natural, given that humans are a social species.

[JFSinIL]

Pretty protective here, but we are in a small city (over 140,000) in a semi-urban area and there are registered sex offenders on almost every block. Gang symbols being spray painted on buildings (activity getting closer all the time) and now shootings every few weeks just a couple blocks away. Sigh. We are closing next week on a town home with our dd (she will pay us back as her mortgage comes from the Bank of Mom and Dad) and lets just say we did NOT look at properties near where we live now. We will ourselves probably sell and move in a few years when youngest dd is done with the local CC, and our Lab dies of old age. Oh, and while most of the folks who move onto our block are nice folks, it has gone from 99% owner occupied to half owner, half renters, with an abandoned house tagged for tear-down on the corner two doors down from us. :-(

Edited April 17, 2016 by JFSinIL

[Garga]

I'm a scaredy cat. My boys went walking together alone (meaning they went with each other, but not with an adult) for the first time a couple of months ago. The oldest is 13 and the youngest was 10/11 when they went. And I'm still nervous when they go. I'm just glad that they're kinda lazy and when I ask them if they want to walk somewhere to get me something (gallon of milk or something) they don't feel like doing it. Since I don't really want them to walk alone, I don't push it. I tried to give them some freedom, but they seem happy to stay home instead. It works out. If they were raring to go, I'd let them and just fret at home. But since they're happy to stay home, I don't push.

 

ETA: And with girls, I'd be even more nervous. But then again, I'm a scaredy cat. My mind always jumps to the worst case scenario in most things in life, and then I have to back up from there. I'm very cautious with how I spend my money. I drive slowly with lots of space between other cars and mine whenever possible. I don't jump into friendships too quickly. I see all the problems that could occur and then sloooowly make my decision or loosen up to move things along. A lot of people are wired differently from me and are quicker to shake off any "worst case scenario" thoughts that pop into their heads.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Garga

[Carrie12345]

. We live more in a country setting where houses are spread a couple of acres apart in most cases and there is no sidewalk. 

 

This is why I voted different from what my own kids have done.  I picture "safe suburban" as my hometown, where I'd let them go before age 8.

 

Here, houses are on about an acre each, with some empty acres scattered around.  We don't have sidewalks, and most of our roads are lined with drainage ditches.  There's a 25mph speed limit, but people speed, pass, and ignore stop signs.  We also have pretty abundant wildlife, which isn't my biggest daytime concern, but it is A concern.

 

My dds have been riding their bikes around the neighborhood since about 11ish.  Older ds has never really gone out exploring, which is fine because he didn't have a normal sense of spacial awareness at that age, or even a few years older. There are no real destinations within a reasonable distance, so it really is just about happily wandering.  All of their local friends are right on our block.

[Bluegoat]

Well, my 11 year old walks the dog farther than that alone, and my 8 year old walks around the block.  My six year old is a little more restricted, in that I tend to ask the girls to keep an eye on him, because up until recently he tended to have temper tantrums when the other kids didn't do what he wanted.  OUr neighbourhood is fairly suburban, there is one road the youngers can't cross alone, but my 11 year old walks a km to music class and crossed a 5 lane major road (with lights.)

 

We used to live in a rural area on 100 acres on a back road, and I'd have been ok with them all walking around there quite far as long as they didn't go on the highway.  There were a few neighbours on the road and a fair number of cows.  On the hwy, it would mostly depend on their height and ability to really stay off of the pavement, so I am not sure when that would have happened.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I walked to school starting at 5.  The school was nearly a mile away, and I don't think it ever occurred to my parents that they should not allow me to.  But I do realize people seem to worry more about this now.  Here the schools encourage parents to walk or drive their kids to school or at the very least not have them walk alone.  I usually walked alone because there was nobody else going that way. 

 

So, really I do not know, and it is sad that it's possibly not safe anymore. 

[Carrie12345]

I wonder if it was ever really as "safe" as we tend to look back and think it was, or if instead we are simply more aware now. I don't think police departments treated missing kids with the same seriousness they do now up until the 80's and 90's. They called them runaways and shoved a file in a drawer it sounds like. They didn't have the technology to even link kids missing in close, but separate cities. It seems like John Walsh and other parents mobilized at that time his son was murdered and cable television, and then later the Internet started being able to bring things to light. A LOT of girls went missing here in the 70's and 80's but no one put it together for almost 20 years.

 

In early 1982, two little girls were killed in my small town.  In the fall of 1982, I started walking to kindergarten with my kindy neighbor.  Everyone knew what had happened (well, the adults did), but everyone went on as usual.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I wonder if it was ever really as "safe" as we tend to look back and think it was, or if instead we are simply more aware now. I don't think police departments treated missing kids with the same seriousness they do now up until the 80's and 90's. They called them runaways and shoved a file in a drawer it sounds like. They didn't have the technology to even link kids missing in close, but separate cities. It seems like John Walsh and other parents mobilized at that time his son was murdered and cable television, and then later the Internet started being able to bring things to light. A LOT of girls went missing here in the 70's and 80's but no one put it together for almost 20 years.

 

Yeah I don't know.  I still don't think abductions are common.  Being harassed or having other things happen is possibly more common though. I had issues sometimes, but mostly from other students and not random adults prowling around to pick up children.  When I was 14 I delivered newspapers and was stopped by some random guy asking for directions.  Who asks for directions at 5 in the morning?  He was naked in his car.  I told him to eff off, and he drove away.  Somehow I had the presence of mind to memorize his license plate number.  Turned out it wasn't the first time he did something like that.  But I quit the route.  Rather sucky because there aren't too many ways to earn money at 14. 

 

One odd thing did happen to my younger sister.  She was very young and left our apartment without permission.  She took a walk up the street and some person stopped and asked if she wanted a ride.  She said she'd go home and ask her mother.  LOL!  (I realize not totally funny, but long after the fact kinda.) 

[SKL]

I voted under 8.  How much under 8 depends on maturity.

[SKL]

I actually think it's important to cognitive development to be out on their own sometimes by age 7 or 8.  However, I do understand that compromises need to be made if there is a specific known danger in the area.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I actually think it's important to cognitive development to be out on their own sometimes by age 7 or 8.  However, I do understand that compromises need to be made if there is a specific known danger in the area.

 

I think it's important, but it doesn't have to happen at 7 or 8.  My 14 year old is allowed to go pretty much where he wants alone.  I have a few rules regarding certain places that I don't consider all that safe (so I require him to leave those areas before dark).  As worried as I am, he needs to learn to navigate the environment.  I don't think it's a good idea to wait too much longer.  Plus it's not really fair.  But I didn't really allow that much beforehand because I do live in a rough area.  There were situations, for example, of groups of kids harassing people who were alone.  In a few cases they did stuff like spray bleach in people's eyes.  So gee it's not abduction I'm worried about so much, but gangs of kids who are up to no good.

 

There are certain things I heavily discourage him from doing.  Going to the park alone is one of them.  The way the park is situated it is too remote from civilization.  If he were to have a problem he might not find help.  "I" would not go there alone either.  Well and actually last summer I went there with him and his brother and some kid tried to steal his bike and I was freaking right there.  I literally had to go over there and tell the potential thief to knock it off or I'd knock him off his block.  He said oh oh he was only kidding.  Sure....

[umsami]

We've lived in neighborhoods where there are often parents and kids outside, people walking dogs, any time my kids are likely to be out, so that impacts my answer.  I'm grateful that it's very much a village mentality..... everybody watches each other's kids.... kids often get snacks/drinks at other houses.... borrow scooters/bikes...etc.  There are nice sidewalks, and the houses are relatively close together.  (Actually too close, IMHO).  In this neighborhood, a 5-6 year old could easily go around the block....or at least half way... without much trouble, assuming s/he was responsible enough to stay on the sidewalk, etc. 

 

When we lived in Brooklyn, my kindergartner could walk to the corner store (there was one at each end of our block) without much worry.  Once again, people were often out.... we knew our neighbors....they knew us....etc.

 

But if I lived in an area that had larger lots, houses more spaced out, I'd probably wait until 8-10.

 

With anything, it depends on the kids. 

 

 

[Ali in OR]

I feel much better if the two girls are together or if there is a dog with them. Even now at ages 15 and 13. We live in a very safe neighborhood but in a college town with regular (yearly?) stories of attempted rape or kidnapping (strange guy approaches college student girl, she typically gets away). We also had one horrible case maybe 12 years ago where the girl did not get away but was kidnapped, raped, and murdered. We knew some of her extended family. We've also had incidents where a particular car is seen patrolling the neighborhood and neighbors inform us that the police have been notified and have told the guy to leave. Somewhere I read that age 14 is actually the most vulnerable time for girls--not little kids. So yeah, I'm still a bit on the overprotective side. I do let my girls go out on their own, I just feel better if they have each other or a dog along!

Edited April 17, 2016 by Ali in OR

[SparklyUnicorn]

We've lived in neighborhoods where there are often parents and kids outside, people walking dogs, any time my kids are likely to be out, so that impacts my answer.  I'm grateful that it's very much a village mentality..... everybody watches each other's kids.... kids often get snacks/drinks at other houses.... borrow scooters/bikes...etc.  There are nice sidewalks, and the houses are relatively close together.  (Actually too close, IMHO).  In this neighborhood, a 5-6 year old could easily go around the block....or at least half way... without much trouble, assuming s/he was responsible enough to stay on the sidewalk, etc. 

 

When we lived in Brooklyn, my kindergartner could walk to the corner store (there was one at each end of our block) without much worry.  Once again, people were often out.... we knew our neighbors....they knew us....etc.

 

But if I lived in an area that had larger lots, houses more spaced out, I'd probably wait until 8-10.

 

With anything, it depends on the kids. 

 

Yeah interestingly I think more people assume more suburban areas are safer.  My argument is there may be far fewer people around to help if there is a problem.  You know where about I live.  My kid goes to a place one city over.  It's mostly a decent area and busy during the day.  But everything closes early.  So I don't feel so good about him being there after dark.  If someone were to bother him he couldn't slip inside a store.  Growing up I lived in a more suburban type place and there was nothing around.  Just houses.  So there was often no way to get help if needed. 

[Ravin]

I've only skimmed a lot of the thread, but I fail to see why a serial killer who is no longer on the loose would factor in to the decision in ANY WAY. 

 

DD was able to go around the block by 6, allowed to walk down to the corner BK (no crossing major streets) by 9, allowed to take public transit to the library or walk to the grocery store (required crossing at an intersection with lights/crosswalk) at 10.75, did take herself to school on public transit daily in 6th grade (10-11 yo), and I will let her take the bus to a friend's house in a sketchy neighborhood IN DAYLIGHT, and she's 12. She is also allowed to take her brother with her to pretty much anywhere she can go independently (he is 5 and she is good at being responsible for him).

 

Absolutely NONE of our decisions were based on DD's gender. It was 100% based on her individual capabilities (and, in sending DS with her, DS's).

[MrsWeasley]

We don't live in an area with a block. There are no sidewalks, and while it's a quiet street, I get nervous about them walking in the road. I allow them to ride bikes in the road where I can see them and then up in the subdivision where there is sidewalk when it is light out and they are carrying a phone, but I don't let them go down the road past where I can see them. We go to my parents' home several times a week. I've let them walk around the block since they were about 5 years old, as there are sidewalks all the way around. My nine year old is allowed to walk in the alley, but the six year old boy is only allowed in the alley with his sister. She was not allowed in the alley without an adult at six, as she didn't have an older sibling out there with her. Gender doesn't play a factor. Height, maturity, and having a buddy do.

Edited April 17, 2016 by MrsWeasley

[Dmmetler]

DD was allowed to go on the sidewalk on either side of our house (corner lot) at 7-8, but only just got permission this year to go farther. Mostly because the only place that is really at all interesting to go is a neighborhood park that has a lot of older kids/teens hanging out, and I didn't want her over there until she was ready to BE one of those older kids/teens. I also didn't want her going farther until I was ready for her to have a cell phone.

 

She does labs on a college campus regularly, and one frustrating thing is that this small, Christian, very safe feeling college won't let her walk from the natural sciences /math building to the library or student union alone. We're talking being able to see one building from the other. So she calls me, or she finds another student going that way and walks with them.

Edited April 17, 2016 by dmmetler

[Crimson Wife]

If we lived where I grew up, I'd let my kids have a LOT more freedom. There's hardly any crime there and a lot of people don't even lock their doors unless they're going to be gone more than a few hours.

 

Unfortunately where we live now, even though we're in a nice neighborhood, it is in fairly close proximity to some borderline ghetto ones. Our zoned middle and high schools have gang problems and there are occasional drive-by shootings, armed carjackings, armed rapes & attempted rapes, etc. It's not Oakland bad but I don't feel safe allowing my 13 y.o. DD to walk around by herself.

[Daria]

Because they believe there are multiple- he is only suspected in a few of the local ones, not the many bodies found in the field and more girls just went missing.

 

ETA- this article discusses some of the killings and missing people. But only some. There are more that are covered in other articles, but this is a good synopsis and let's you see how many separate predators there are in this. And this is just the ones they caught or confessed. http://www.houstonchronicle.com/life/books/article/Crime-writer-tackles-the-story-of-Texas-killing-6034054.php

I would say 8ish based on safe and suburban, but your neighborhood sounds neither to me.

 

Where I lived when I had a 7 year old (small city sized block, sidewalks, low crime, lots of familiar neighbors, I was confortable with him riding a scooter around the block, although he'd generally cut through an alley as one side of out block was a major street with a lot of foot traffic and store which made scootering slow and no fun.

[La Condessa]

Interesting to hear people thinking that the country is less safe in general. Since dh becomes familiar with all of the local criminals through his work, I feel much safer out in the country away from people than in town. The last time we had to move was a nightmare, as every place I found got nixed by dh for the neighbors. Really, out in the country without any close neighbors is the only thing that has worked, since criminals (with specific reason to dislike dh, who is a prosecutor) seem to be scattered through every neighborhood.

[luuknam]

I'm assuming during daylight, so about 6-7yo. When it's dark out, older, and late at night, even older. Young kids do not need to walk alone around the block at midnight though, no matter how safe the neighborhood. I haven't got statistics, but stranger abductions are rather rare, and it seems that plenty of the pedophiles in the flyers targeted boys, so I don't feel letting a 6-7yo girl walking alone would be more dangerous than a 6-7yo boy. I've allowed my oldest to go around the block or to the playground alone for about a year (so since about 7.5yo, but he's got special needs), but he didn't want to. He just went to the playground alone for the first time last week, so at 8.5yo. He hasn't felt any particular desire to walk around the block alone though, but the playground is a few blocks away, so that counts, imo. He'd like to bicycle around the block alone, but that's a no because there's a very busy road on one side and I just don't feel confident he's not going to end up in front of a car (there's a side walk, but he can be clumsy and while he's very cautious while walking, he's less cautious bicycling).

 

My youngest is 5, and the way things currently look I'd let him next summer, but not this summer (he turns 6 in November). Of course, it varies per kid, and maybe I'll be okay with it by early fall... we'll see. Again though, there's no point in him walking alone around the block, so I'm mostly thinking about walking to the playground without me (crossing residential roads 6 times to get there). My kids do play outside in the yard/driveway/sidewalk alone at times, and together more often.

 

For the record, my mom mentioned that her neighbor lets her 3 and 4yo kids tricycle around the block while she sits in the front yard... since it's around the block, the kids are out of sight when on the other side of the block. Personally, I feel 3-4 is too young, but wanted to mention anyway.

[luuknam]

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/top100safest/

 

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/neighborhoods/crime-rates/top100dangerous/

 

 

Thought some of y'all might like this link.

 

For a reference point, my city is in the top 50 safest even with what I posted above, but Houston is in the top 100 most dangerous, so it's all relative I guess as I don't think a lot of predators necessarily work their own neighborhood. And we're all connected by the interstates even if Houston is an hour away...that's not much on a freeway.

 

The problem with those links is that 'Houston' is not a neighborhood. It has several neighborhoods in it, some of which are safer/more dangerous than others. There are probably parts of Houston I wouldn't want to walk through during daytime, but I've been on vacation to Houston and not had any issues.

[happypamama]

Maybe 11-12 in our area?  I don't really know; it really hasn't been much of an issue.  We live in the country, with houses nearby but not too close; lots are about three acres, so the houses aren't right on top of each other.  We have a couple of neighbors within shouting distance.

 

My older two kids (11 and 14) are allowed to ride their bikes/walk in a certain radius around the house.  There is one direction where they are not allowed to ride/walk because while the area is safe, the road goes down a steep hill and opens onto a highway.  It's also right next to a gas station/quickie mart, which is probably fine, but I'm a little less thrilled about it because it is a small truck stop, and that makes me a little nervous because of how quickly a truck could be back on the highway.  So they're not allowed that way without an adult.  But as for the other directions, they can go those ways if they're together, because I figure safety in numbers and all, plus that way they're not alone if someone gets hurt.  They have a phone, and they both have serious self defense training, and I could send them with pepper spray or a whistle or something to deter animals if need be.  I do see adults, and occasionally teens, running/walking/biking around our roads alone frequently.  I expect that my perceived risk of the situation is higher than it really ought to be; they're almost certainly safe around here.  I'm just paranoid.

 

As for girl vs. boy -- that depends on the girl.  Me?  I'm tiny for an adult woman and probably not that all strong in comparison to an adult male.  My daughter, otoh?  She's not huge, but she's also very strong and has some actual training in defending herself against adult males.  But her brother, while he has the same training as she does, is considerably smaller at this point.  So I would put odds on her at being better at defending herself if need be, but I still prefer that they be together.

Edited April 17, 2016 by happypamama

[luuknam]

You are right, Houston is huge as far as square mileage but the city limits doesn't really let you differentiate within areas as far as reporting goes, so this is as good as it gets. The suburbs are different. Say Katy would be listed as a separate city here. If you want to know within the city it requires a call to the HPD to try and get the information yourself. Most of us who live here are very well aware of where you would and wouldn't drive at night. The problem however is that those areas are expanding out to said suburbs. Like another post with the human trafficking becoming more widespread- I'm not sure if it's all areas of the country but there has been a noticeable increase in drug, trafficking, and cartel issues in Houston over the last decade.

 

ETA- and although the link it's self says neighborhood the report title states cities.

 

My point wasn't just about Houston. It lists Buffalo as one of the most dangerous cities, and there are parts where I wouldn't be too worried about my kids walking alone *if* they knew the area, but other parts where Google Maps once routed me through and I went "oh shit" and locked the car doors hoping to get out of that part ASAP. It lists Niagara Falls as one of the most dangerous cities as well, and while NF did look pretty trashy every time we've been there, I'm also wondering how much of the crime numbers is people stealing purses from tourists, which is different than an 8yo walking around a non-touristy part of town.

 

Most big cities have problem areas that really skew their numbers up, while also having safe neighborhoods.

[Daria]

Interesting to hear people thinking that the country is less safe in general. Since dh becomes familiar with all of the local criminals through his work, I feel much safer out in the country away from people than in town. The last time we had to move was a nightmare, as every place I found got nixed by dh for the neighbors. Really, out in the country without any close neighbors is the only thing that has worked, since criminals (with specific reason to dislike dh, who is a prosecutor) seem to be scattered through every neighborhood.

I don't think that the city/suburbs are universally safer, but I do think that in this particular scenario (a young child walking around a block) they often are. Sidewalks would be my number one reason, but also the fact that the blocks are smaller so she would get home faster, and the increased # of people to go to for help.

[Arcadia]

My parents allowed me a lot earlier than my younger brother because of personality. I grew up in a dense city where public busses and bus stops have many people from 5:30am until 11pm. Shops lined the walkway from my childhood home to bus stops and light rail stations, and those shops close after 9pm. The community center next door closed at 10pm or later.

 

We have gang fights and beggars and occasional drunks but the shop owners keep a lookout and we could run in if there was trouble.

 

Now where we live the volume of people walking is a lot less than where I grew up. Snatch and run robbery, as well as smash and grab car thefts happen. Nobody is at home during the daytime on the main thoroughfare to the library, park and supermarket. I still walk my kids.

 

Where my kids attend classes, a big group of school kids walk or bike to the library from their school at school dismissal time. Besides the park they bike and walk through has many parents with kids from noon until dinner time. There is a safety in numbers.

[knoxinsox]

I was molested at 11 by a neighbor, so that colors my parenting boundaries.  My kids have instructions to never go into neighbor's houses without me or their dad. At every house we've lived in, we've set up boundaries of where they can walk or ride bike and I let them play out there alone, although I can hear them usually. We lived in a lower income trailer park for a couple of years and ironically, we felt very safe there---all the kids came down to our street and played soccer, rode bikes, etc on the street.  My neighbor and i often were out there supervising, and we broke up spats and sent naughty kids home.   I had kids who got locked out by accident and couldn't rouse a sleeping parent and came to my house because they knew we were safe and would feed them.

 

We have moved and have a s*x offender 2 houses down, so the kids are not allowed down there or to talk to him.  His profile says s*xual assault on a 12 year old girl, so I believe its better to be safe than friendly.  He seems violent---lots of screaming and throwing things at his wife out in public, so we just stay away.  The rest of the neighbors are awesome, but none of the kids go down past his .  I generally would want to know an offenders story before making an assumption--there are too many young men who have a record because they had a girlfriend who was too young, and I know there are people who are wrongfully convicted. We see the same cars and same people walking in the neighborhood usually, so not too many strangers.

 

ETA:  My kids are almost 7 and 10.

Edited April 17, 2016 by knoxinsox

[The Girls' Mom]

I don't even walk alone around our neighborhood, at least not without our dog.  We live in an area with high drug activity, and sex trafficking abduction/abduction attempts are on the rise.  Our area is secluded, and in some areas you could scream your lungs out and no one would know.  My girls are not comfortable walking alone here.  Creepy men DO stop "Hey, you need a ride?".  I do, however, let them walk together to their grandmas over a mile away.  

[Tsuga]

In this, Sherlock shares my opinion and yours. How can you be safe with your neighbors so far away? I always feel like it can't be quite natural, given that humans are a social species.

I think people have been trying to avoid their neighbor's ever since whenever. I don't find it unnatural to enjoy a pastoral landscape. I do think it carries different risks.

[Tsuga]

Interesting to hear people thinking that the country is less safe in general. Since dh becomes familiar with all of the local criminals through his work, I feel much safer out in the country away from people than in town. The last time we had to move was a nightmare, as every place I found got nixed by dh for the neighbors. Really, out in the country without any close neighbors is the only thing that has worked, since criminals (with specific reason to dislike dh, who is a prosecutor) seem to be scattered through every neighborhood.

My BIL seems terrified of the city. He works in law enforcement. "You don't see what I see."

 

I do... I know the stats. He doesn't see what I see in terms of escape routes.

 

My thought is that I can not avoid criminals, molesters, etc. but I can get away more easily in some places. It's a positive safety (I have protection) rather than negative (there are no bad guys).

 

You can only avoid water for so long is my thought. Then when forced to deal with* the deep water, the question is not can you swim or whether deep water exists but whether there is anyone around to pull you out.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Tsuga

[Paige]

Thanks for the responses. 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Paige

[Laurie]

I wonder if it was ever really as "safe" as we tend to look back and think it was, or if instead we are simply more aware now. I don't think police departments treated missing kids with the same seriousness they do now up until the 80's and 90's. They called them runaways and shoved a file in a drawer it sounds like. They didn't have the technology to even link kids missing in close, but separate cities. It seems like John Walsh and other parents mobilized at that time his son was murdered and cable television, and then later the Internet started being able to bring things to light. A LOT of girls went missing here in the 70's and 80's but no one put it together for almost 20 years.

 

I was in elementary school back in the 70's when Ted Bundy was murdering young women around here.   I can remember my parents being shocked that teenage girls were still hitchhiking. 

 

I remember when they started putting missing kids' pictures on milk cartons.   It's good that we've got Amber Alerts now! 

 

We also had the Green River serial killer in this area.  

 

You would think that people around here would be much tougher on predator types, but read this recent story about a child p*rn "collector" if you really want your blood to boil.  I can't imagine putting this guy in the category of good people who do bad things.   Collecting child p*rn, including videos of abuse, isn't my idea of a "good person" who did something stupid/careless and got caught!   And letting him live across from an elementary school??? 

http://komonews.com/news/local/judge-fbi-tied-child-porn-collector-not-a-danger-to-seattle-school

(Maybe they should put the photos of these sex offenders on something...but not on milk cartons.  Maybe on the bags of manure from the gardening stores and on the sides of portable toilets.)

Edited April 17, 2016 by Laurie

[sassenach]

This was timely. Dd had a friend stay the night and I let them walk to the park together. They are almost 12 and I honestly don't think our neighborhood could be any safer outside of being on the Truman Show.

 

This morning the friend's dad pulled me aside to say that he didn't think that it was safe and didn't want them to do that again. I apologized and agreed. However, based on many other things, I generally consider this dad a super overreactor. Like unhealthy. Her mom gives her way more freedom outside of the dad's presence.

 

At some point overprotection can actually be harmful, imo. (As an aside, the whole killing field thing would freak me out and definitely affect my decisions)

Edited April 17, 2016 by Sassenach

[catz]

I can't imagine not allowing a 12 year old to walk to a park with a friend?  My 11 year old dd has been walking the neighborhood with friends for at least a year or 2.  We are urban, in a nice neighborhood.  But top 20 metro urban.  My kids ran up and down our block at 6 and around the block with friends not long after.  My 11 year old regularly walks a few blocks to a friends house alone and has for a couple years.  She does have a cell phone.

 

I prefer kids in groups myself.  I have a son and daughter and gender hasn't swayed me.  My son started taking public transit on his own last year at 14.  He doesn't really enjoy it, but hey, I cannot drive him all the time and last summer it was necessary at points.  I actually would have allowed him to sooner, but there wasn't a pressing need before that. 

 

Anyway, I think this depends quite a bit on area.  Like the killing fields story would have make making different decisions if it were in my area and someone was on the loose for sure.  I do also think it can be damaging not to be actively working to having your kids be able to be independent.  I wouldn't my kid's college choice limited by fear.  Not that I want to send my kid into a war zone, but if they were interested in a college in LA or NYC, I do hope they have the confidence to think that's an option for them. 

[ashfern]

It depends on which of my girls it is. I will send the youngest (just turned 8) with a sibling. My 10 (soon to be 11) also with a sibling. It's usually the 8 & 10 yo together. But their older sister I would let go alone at 10. We have a playground at the entrance to our subdivision. I would let the younger girls go but only with one of their older siblings. 

[Paige]

 

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Paige

[maize]

I said 8-10, boy or girl, but I do still prefer they go with a sibling at that age.

[Laura Corin]

When would you be comfortable letting your daughter walk around the block by herself in a generally safe suburban neighborhood, assuming no special needs? Would the child's gender affect your choice?

 

If there are no roads to cross, boy or girl: whenever I thought they would be comfortable doing it and would know their way home.  Hobbes was exploring public access woods alone by the age of 9.  He wasn't allowed to cross roads until later, as he was distractible.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Laura Corin

[Bluegoat]

My BIL seems terrified of the city. He works in law enforcement. "You don't see what I see."

 

I do... I know the stats. He doesn't see what I see in terms of escape routes.

 

My thought is that I can not avoid criminals, molesters, etc. but I can get away more easily in some places. It's a positive safety (I have protection) rather than negative (there are no bad guys).

 

You can only avoid water for so long is my thought. Then when forced to deal with* the deep water, the question is not can you swim or whether deep water exists but whether there is anyone around to pull you out.

 

Yeah, I don't really get the city, or the country, being less safe.  The dangers might be different, but that is even between differet examples of each.  I've lived in cities and inner city areas where kids being around is common, and part of the reason it is not scary is because there are so many people around all the time.  The biggest danger would probably be getting in an argument with a group of kids and beaten up.

 

In the country, the main dangers we had were getting lost in the woods or going to an area where there was trapping, or falling in a pond. TRaffic was not an issue even though there were no sidewalks, and while it was lonely and a kidnapper could easily get away - well, kidnappers are pretty darn rare.

 

Sometimes the suburbs seem to have the worst of each - no one around, lots of traffic and no sidewalks. 

[Bluegoat]

Thanks for the responses. DH and I have been having a disagreement. My almost 12yr olds want to walk their tiny no-threat dog around our neighborhood alone. They are allowed to go together, but sometimes one doesn't want to go or they just want to be alone. I want to let them; DH doesn't and doesn't think it would ever be safe. He'd prefer I didn't either but I think it's ridiculous. Our neighborhood is nice with walking trails and people always outside riding bikes, walking dogs, and running. I was going 1/2 mile to the store alone when I was 8, and think the girls need to develop some independence and confidence. I was wondering how unusual his position is. He would let our DS (14) go alone and would when he was younger too. The kids are allowed to go play alone at neighbors' houses a few houses up and down, but for some reason walking the dog along the street freaks DH out. He specifically says it's because they are female. Also, they are black belts, which I know doesn't mean they can take down a motivated adult, but it does give them some self defense skills and they know how to yell loudly and be aware. 

 

I think your husband is being really over-protective.  It's important for kids at that age to  start to build confidence and skills related to being in charge of themselves.

[Laurie]

I wonder if it's a male perspective thing? DH is so much more cautious about the girls than I am; sometimes I think it's because I've been a girl myself and know what it's like and he's more influenced by the media. On the other hand, I'm much more likely to encourage the girls to not always be polite, to be sure they walk with their heads up, phones down, and headphones off, and to feel free to tell adults no. He's more of a be nice and always forgive and give chances type of guy. 

 

I agree that over protection can be stifling. I want them to be aware and cautious but not afraid.

 

 I didn't take the poll since both of mine are on the autism spectrum.   For me, it's not so much gender/age as gullibility!    I tried to prepare my son for the different types of people he would encounter on a university campus.  I can relate to the father in the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" when he doesn't want his daughter to take the bus to college because someone might ask her to carry a bag that's holding drugs!   And my son must look pretty approachable because people are always asking him for directions or to take their pictures or something.  He wants to be helpful, and when he first started classes there he felt so bad when he gave someone the wrong directions so he started a project walking around campus to learn the names of different buildings!   

 

I, too, have been the one to teach my dc that they don't always have to be polite, and to be aware of their surroundings, etc.  But neither of them are that good about reading situations.   Although, It was surprising to me when I bought my dd a placemat with pictures of horses on it.  She pointed to one horse walking along the beach and told me "that horse is walking like a victim because his head is down".  

[rebcoola]

Under 8 was my vote.  At any age  we prefer that they have a buddy for most things.  If its to go check the mail or run to grandparents( 1 block) we have let them go totally alone as young as 5.  They are never allowed in a neighbors house though.