jen3kids Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) At the hospital with dh. We brought older ds (18.5) here after I found him drunk and high on pills at home. He won't let us in the hospital room.What should we be asking for/pushing for from the nurses doctors.? At bit more info Ds told dh and I tonight that he takes various drugs a lot. I don't know if daily, but more than 1x/week, not just weekend parties. He told us he has taken adderall ,xanax, mollies, and a few more I don't remember the names of - he drinks cough medicine mixed with Sprite, he smokes weed, he drinks alcohol, he huffs. When I found him, he had taken (snorted) 2mg of xanax and drank 1/2 bottle of vodka, because the 'xanax hadn't kicked in soon enough'. He says he gets a lot from his 'friends' for free. He tells us he likes how they make him feel - he is more creative and he can do his cc work better. He can stop thinking about the real world and just chill. He feels he is not loved - not true. We don't talk enough - true. He alternated between crying and telling us he was an addict and needed help and being belligerent that he was fine, he liked it and was going to keep using. When we got to the hospital, he was belligerent and wouldn't let us in, but then I went to check on him and he repeated all he told us at home - both the crying "I need help. I am an addict." and the angry 'Go away. I'm fine. I can stop whenever I want. I will keep using.' They could not keep him against his will. The only advice the dr did give was that if we find him like this again to call 911 and then he will likely be held for 24 hours on observation. She called it and PE or EP - I should have written it down We are home now and he is sleeping. The dr gave him a list of counsellors/rehab to look into. He is adamant that he will not. I told ds I wanted the list so that we can find out how to help him. This is a very serious situation and we will need a lot of help to get through this together. Edited February 15, 2016 by jen3kids 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I'm so sorry. Since your son is over 18 there is not much that you will be able to do because of HIPAA. I am an advocate of detaching with love. It might be time to tell your son that whether or not he remains a guest in your home depends on his decision to receive and follow through with a treatment program. I suggest that you tell him this only if you and your dh are prepared to follow through. I would also suggest you and your dh seek counseling for yourselves, even if your son refuses to participate. I'm so sorry - I am sure your mother's heart is hurting. Edited February 15, 2016 by jelbe5 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliz Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Is there a friend of your family or church member your son respects that could talk with him about treatment? I'm so sorry this is happening. I wish I had more suggestions, but if you don't mind I'll be praying for him and your family. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Was this a Suicide attempt? Was this an attempt to get drunk? Were the pills legal or illegal? The motivation and the source of the pills matter. I would encourage him to seek Psychiatric help, on a long term basis. From your signature it looks like you have younger DC. Whether or not you permit him to enter your home again is something you will need to explore thoroughly, with your DH and the Psychiatrist who treats your son. He needs your prayers, and he also needs "Tough Love", or this will probably be repeated in the future and he may or may not survive those experiences. I wish him GL in wanting and receiving excellent treatment. If he does not want treatment, it, it will not help him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I agree with Lanny that figuring out the motivation and source of the alcohol and drugs is important. Without knowing that (not that you have to tell us!), it's hard to know what I would do next. Since you used the term "addiction," I'm guessing there is a lot more to the story. Getting drunk and high does not mean someone is addicted. I'd be looking at counseling to help you as parents figure out what to do next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I agree with Melinda in VT (post #6) about the use of the word "addiction" in the title of this thread. I paid more attention to that word, after I replied above. Addiction to drugs (legal and illegal) is a very long term problem in the USA, Canada and Europe. There are many treatment programs available, for people who want to change. There are no forms of treatment that can help people who do not want to change. Hopefully, the DS of the OP will want to change, because if he doesn't stop this, the likely result for him is not pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I will pray for you. I don't know where you are, but you can probably call your County services board--look up addiction and your area on google and see what they say. Be prepared for not so good programs. Call your insurance right now and ask what treatment is covered. He's going to need a residential program, but it is hard to find an adult program that is really good. Some truisms-- Realize you can no longer trust him to tell you the truth. That's a really, really hard thing. Addiction is a brain disease, and a real bitch, to be honest. It turns people into incredibly manipulative liars. His brain will crave the substances but he's really craving relief. It is not a moral thing--but it changes morals. One of the best things we realized is that addiction is a family disease, and the whole family (to varying degrees) needs to get help and healing. It is not true that he has to want change to START a program. It is true he has to want to change to FINISH one. There are stages of change. It's hell. But you can still survive it. I'm so sorry you have to walk this road, and I wish I could give you better advice. 31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 jen3kids I read your update in post #1. Very bad. Worse, IMO, since he is over 18. You and your DH will need to discuss, as a couple, and as parents of 2 younger children, whether or not you can permit him to live in your house, now and in the future. With time, you will probably get that list, but you cannot help him, unless he wants to change. The advice the Dr. gave you about calling 911 is good, but he may not survive another event like that. Each time, it might result in an Accidental Overdose Death. I hope that suicide is not his goal. He needs help, but he is legally an "Adult" and that makes your ability to try to provide care for him extremely limited. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnMyOwn Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm so sorry you are going through this. I would look into all the programs available and offer help, but if he does not want it, you may have to accept that and set boundaries for your family. I would absolutely be supportive and encouraging about any sort of treatment or positive changes he is willing to make, but whether he will be willing sounds questionable. Setting boundaries can be hard but doing so may not only help you, but him as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Hugs! Edited February 15, 2016 by Rach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I have no answers...I am praying for your son and for you and your husband, that you will have peace to go forward and wisdom in handling this and that he will realize his need for help!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 :grouphug: I'm so sorry. But I agree with advice to think of your younger children. I know that's the hardest thing in the world to think of doing, kicking a child out of the house who has so many problems. I hope you guys can talk when he's sober and convince him to get help. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 :grouphug: :grouphug: Thinking of you all as you journey through this time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinaPagnato Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 My heart is breaking for you. I will pray for you and your husband to have wisdom as you make each decision, and prayers for your son to be healed from this addiction. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm sorry. I will pray for your ds. You need to find out what services are in your area and take advantage of support groups/counseling/programs for families. You can learn about all the services for persons who are ready to participate in addiction recovery. You can be ready with options when your ds is ready. You have to put focus on your younger DC. I don't know that you must tell your ds to move out. But you do have to figure out how to limit his impact on them and on you (do you can be a mom for them too). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexigail Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 The sooner you find help for YOU, the clearer you will be in your decision making process. Find a local Al anon chapter and attend meetings asap. Lots of people have kids who go through rehab again and again before they find Al anon. If your son isn't ready to seek treatment, it is your job to get help for the rest of the family. If you have younger kids, you must think of them and if they have been exposed to this behavior. They will also need help understanding and dealing with having a sibling who struggles with drug and alcohol addiction. If you pray, pray for him, but don't try to force him to get better. Focus on getting better yourself - it feels very selfish at first, but if your kids see you doing this, they will learn self-care as well. I can't tell you how grateful I am for Al anon - if nothing else, it taught me not to expose my kids to things they're not able to handle. I have a parent and siblings who use drugs and alcohol regularly and I have had to draw very firm lines around my kids. I would not have been able to do that if I hadn't started with going to meetings. This is a long road, but you CAN do it. Good luck and hugs to you! 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I"m so sorry. I watched my parents go through this with my brother. The drew a boundary where he was not allowed to remain in the house unless he was clean and/or seeking help. It was heartbreaking for them, but the refused to be complicit in him destroying himself. Talk to your husband, and yes, get some counseling for yourselves from someone familiar with family addiction issues. :grouphug: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechWife Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 :grouphug: I hope you are able to find a professional that you and your husband can talk to in order to sort out what this means for yourselves and your family. Such a hard road - I have no words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm so sorry. So, so sorry. We've been there, and it's a hard road. I completely agree with Chris on VA and Alexigail. And you have some good words of wisdom here. Self care for yourself. Al Anon or a good therapist for you... It will help you get clear on where to go, the next steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jen3kids Posted February 15, 2016 Author Share Posted February 15, 2016 First, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and kind words. I was hopeful for a calm, rational discussion with s contrite young man but instead we got indifference/belligerence 'Everything is fine. It was blown out of proportion. I'm fine.' A few questions on where we go from here, short term.... 1. He is enrolled at a local cc - do we let him continue? 2. Do we allow him to drive - he has his own car, paid for by himself. Fyi - he has never come home high or drunk. He has always stayed out past his agreed upon return time instead, often coming home in the mornng. 3. What do we tell our 16 and 14 year old? Both go to public high schools and know about drinking and drugs, and I think they have suspected him of doing pot. 4. We have removed all medication/medicines and alcohol. Am I missing anything else? Thank you for all your support and kind words. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 No suggestions, just hugs and prayers for you. I have a family member going through a similar thing and it is hard, hard hard but you will make it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Thank you for the additional details. If your son struggles with a serious mental health issue you may be able to take emergency guardianship of him but that process takes time and is not easy and you may not have the luxury of time. It is important not to let thing go back to the "status quo" after he wakes up and you all have a chance to talk. He may be contrite, apologetic, tell you he was upset and does not really have a problem, will never do it again, blah blah blah. Don't believe it. He may say anything and even do anything in the hope you and dh will let this drop and then he will go right back to the behavior. Crises can be a great motivator and now is the time for action. If you are funding him (school, car, pocket money) you will need to stop. Especially if he is using and driving. Assistance from you can only come if he is willing to play by your rules. Your house, your money, your rules. Since he is 18 you cannot legally control him but you can control the resources you give to him. No using in the house. No drinking/drugging friends in the house. Submission to room searches and random drug screens. Substance abuse counseling, therapy and physical/mental health screening. You will need to be part of that process since addiction is an illness that impacts the entire family. If he does not want to adhere to this you will need to decide what the consequence will be. He may not be able to live with you and you will need to be prepared for this heartbreaking possibility. Let him know you love him but cannot have him live with you and behave that way and that you are ready to throw 100% support behind him when he is ready to accept the plan being offered. I am so very sorry for this turmoil you are going through and am lifting your family up in prayer. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I will pray for you. I don't know where you are, but you can probably call your County services board--look up addiction and your area on google and see what they say. Be prepared for not so good programs. Call your insurance right now and ask what treatment is covered. He's going to need a residential program, but it is hard to find an adult program that is really good. Some truisms-- Realize you can no longer trust him to tell you the truth. That's a really, really hard thing. Addiction is a brain disease, and a real bitch, to be honest. It turns people into incredibly manipulative liars. His brain will crave the substances but he's really craving relief. It is not a moral thing--but it changes morals. One of the best things we realized is that addiction is a family disease, and the whole family (to varying degrees) needs to get help and healing. It is not true that he has to want change to START a program. It is true he has to want to change to FINISH one. There are stages of change. It's hell. But you can still survive it. I'm so sorry you have to walk this road, and I wish I could give you better advice. This. Also, please beware of the potential for criminal activity. His began slowly with little things disappearing around the house. It got very bad. (I don't want to post the details) ETA: the people on this board have offered me support during some of the worst times. While I am very cautious posting (and after a few days go back and edit) don't be afraid to reach out. Edited February 15, 2016 by MooCow 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 First, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and kind words. I was hopeful for a calm, rational discussion with s contrite young man but instead we got indifference/belligerence 'Everything is fine. It was blown out of proportion. I'm fine.' A few questions on where we go from here, short term.... 1. He is enrolled at a local cc - do we let him continue? 2. Do we allow him to drive - he has his own car, paid for by himself. Fyi - he has never come home high or drunk. He has always stayed out past his agreed upon return time instead, often coming home in the mornng. 3. What do we tell our 16 and 14 year old? Both go to public high schools and know about drinking and drugs, and I think they have suspected him of doing pot. 4. We have removed all medication/medicines and alcohol. Am I missing anything else? Thank you for all your support and kind words. My quick thoughts, since ours was 18.5 when this became an issue as well (and at 24, he is doing well now, so something worked). 1. Yes, keep him in school. 2. The car is in his name? Then yes. Unless you think he's drunk or high - them take his keys. 3. Tell your other kids the truth. We told our younger son that DS had a brain disease, essentially. We discussed substance abuse, and bipolar in age appropriate ways. We used the help of a family counselor. 4. Don't forget to remove cooking wine. High sodium, but it was an issue here. Also, if you have guns - remove those. Send them to a friend's house, just get them out of yours. Don't trust locks. Depression could be an issue. Hang in there. 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelbe5 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) First, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and kind words. I was hopeful for a calm, rational discussion with s contrite young man but instead we got indifference/belligerence 'Everything is fine. It was blown out of proportion. I'm fine.' A few questions on where we go from here, short term.... 1. He is enrolled at a local cc - do we let him continue? 2. Do we allow him to drive - he has his own car, paid for by himself. Fyi - he has never come home high or drunk. He has always stayed out past his agreed upon return time instead, often coming home in the mornng. 3. What do we tell our 16 and 14 year old? Both go to public high schools and know about drinking and drugs, and I think they have suspected him of doing pot. 4. We have removed all medication/medicines and alcohol. Am I missing anything else? Thank you for all your support and kind words. These are my recommendations. I say this as a recovering person who needed my parents to give me a kick in the a$$ when I was drinking/drugging from 16+. I love my parents and they are great people but they believed my lies and hoped I was going through a "phase". 1) Funding for school ends if you are helping him unless he goes along with the plan 2) Do not let him drive if at all possible. If you pay for insurance, cancel it. He has not come home high or drunk - that you know of. Don't buy that. Addicts are very, very good. If you can tolerate it, he can go visit his friends but he should plan on crashing with them until he is clean and sober. Be prepared for pleading and rage at this. He will tell you how unreasonable you are and so on. Too bad. If you are going with your drinking/drugging buddies stay put until you are sober - And I will meet you at the door when you come home to deny entry if I suspect you are high/drunk. 3) Talk to your younger children. They probably know already. Now is not the time for secrets and tip-toeing. 4). Did you search his room. Getting rid of alcohol/meds in your home is a temporary solution. If he can leave the home and drive to visit friends, he will get stuff. My guess is this has been going on for some time. Substance use/abuse may be masking other underlying mental health issues which is why I strongly suggest a full health and mental health screening. ETA - my suggestions will differ from those of others here. This is why I strongly suggest getting in to see a substance abuse professional ASAP, even if your son will not agree to go with you. Talking with a skilled professional will help you and your husband (and two younger children) hammer out a plan you can all live with and present a united front. You will all need to be on the same page with this for it to be effective. Again, my prayers are with you. Edited February 15, 2016 by jelbe5 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 OP RE: your questions in post #22. I believe in post 24 there is some excellent advice. "Free Advice is Often Worth What You Pay For it, or, It May be Priceless". Filter the information you receive here and in other places. Let him continue in the CC? What would he do if you don't let him continue there? And since he is of Legal Age, how would you prevent him from attending school, if you wanted to do that? Allow him to drive his car? If he is an Adult and he paid for it, you have no control over that. Yes, I believe it is urgent that you and your DH sit down with your younger children, TODAY, and discuss this with them, fully. Tell them everything you know. They are the likely victims of what your older DS is doing. They are MINORS, and you have a LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY to protect them. Your older DS is an "ADULT" and it is his legal responsibility to take care of himself. I will include your family in my prayers. Try to take it one day, or one hour at a time. I have a friend, he sings with my favorite singer, and some years ago, when things were extremely rough for my family, he wrote something like, "Just when you think it can't get any worse, it gets worse...". Hang in there and you will survive this crisis. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 First, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and kind words. I was hopeful for a calm, rational discussion with s contrite young man but instead we got indifference/belligerence 'Everything is fine. It was blown out of proportion. I'm fine.' A few questions on where we go from here, short term.... 1. He is enrolled at a local cc - do we let him continue? 2. Do we allow him to drive - he has his own car, paid for by himself. Fyi - he has never come home high or drunk. He has always stayed out past his agreed upon return time instead, often coming home in the mornng. 3. What do we tell our 16 and 14 year old? Both go to public high schools and know about drinking and drugs, and I think they have suspected him of doing pot. 4. We have removed all medication/medicines and alcohol. Am I missing anything else? Thank you for all your support and kind words. 1. I'd let him continue. You are probably past the point of getting a refund and if he's not in school he'll just have more free time to flounder. School is good. 2. He's an adult and you're not paying for his car. So not sure you could really prevent him from driving it. I'd be cautious about declaring he's never come home high or drunk. He might have. And he's an adult and has to own that. But it might be time to talk about whether you're willing to come get him if he's been drinking or doing drugs. Are you willing to do that? It might 'look' like you are condoning the activity but you're really just protecting him and potentially a victim. 3. I'd tell them everything. Pressure from siblings has usually been positive with our kids- they might be able to get through to him in a way you or dh can't. 4. No advice. But prayers to you guys. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. :grouphug: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Just reading this now. :grouphug: I don't really have much advice, but I would be looking into rehab programs and I really pray he gets the help and healing he needs. Edited February 23, 2016 by DawnM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 . He feels he is not loved - not true. "feelings" are about perception. ​are you calling him a liar when he says he "feels" like he is not loved? (that you do love him is irrelevant to how he feels.) drugs can also distort feelings. We don't talk enough - true. He alternated between crying and telling us he was an addict and needed help and being belligerent that he was fine, he liked it and was going to keep using. ​sounds pretty typical for an addict. We are home now and he is sleeping. The dr gave him a list of counsellors/rehab to look into. He is adamant that he will not. I told ds I wanted the list so that we can find out how to help him. This is a very serious situation and we will need a lot of help to get through this together. he's over 18. legally, your hands are tied for forcing him into treatment. you can get a list from the dr yourself - or do some research in your area to find counselors who deal with families. I would suggest you talk to the counselor yourself, for brainstorming ideas on what you can do to help your son. make an appointment for him - drive him if you have to and sit in the waiting room. he may or may not go, and I agree - if you find him like this, 911 can do an involuntary short-term hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkmint Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm sorry this is happening. I started smoking pot at 12 and ended up rotating between meth and heroin by the time I was a young adult. My background sounds much different than your son's, (my mom was also using drugs etc) so I don't know how helpful I will be. But I wanted to say there's almost a zero percent chance that your son hasn't come home drunk or high. Also, lying is just plain par for the course with drugging. It's basically unheard of that a drug abusing person tends to tell the truth. There's a chance that your son may need to feel the painful consequences of his actions. And hopefully it won't involve him dying or some lifelong damage that basically wrecks his life, but those are realities. Rehab may or may not be helpful. I never went. And some of the people I knew who did go to rehab actually left there with a fresh batch of drug connections because of the people they met who went straight back to drugs. It's a hard hard thing. Feel free to PM me if you want. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 If you can get him to sign a medical power of attorney, you may have some more "control" and will be able to access records and speak with doctors. An attorney who does estate planning may be able to advise you on this. It's very common now in elder care, even if the attorney doesn't normally do it with younger people. Or s/he can refer you to someone who does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) I will pray for you. I don't know where you are, but you can probably call your County services board--look up addiction and your area on google and see what they say. Be prepared for not so good programs. Call your insurance right now and ask what treatment is covered. He's going to need a residential program, but it is hard to find an adult program that is really good. Some truisms-- Realize you can no longer trust him to tell you the truth. That's a really, really hard thing. Addiction is a brain disease, and a real bitch, to be honest. It turns people into incredibly manipulative liars. His brain will crave the substances but he's really craving relief. It is not a moral thing--but it changes morals. One of the best things we realized is that addiction is a family disease, and the whole family (to varying degrees) needs to get help and healing. It is not true that he has to want change to START a program. It is true he has to want to change to FINISH one. There are stages of change. It's hell. But you can still survive it. I'm so sorry you have to walk this road, and I wish I could give you better advice. this. even if he's just using regularly, and not an actual addict - he will lie. I don't believe his friends are supplying him for free. especially NOT Adderall or Xanax, other rx. those drugs came from somewhere and I can almost guarantee somewhere they were obtained illegally. there are unhealthy family dynamics that go along with addiction - and those need to be dealt with. jen3kids I read your update in post #1. Very bad. Worse, IMO, since he is over 18. You and your DH will need to discuss, as a couple, and as parents of 2 younger children, whether or not you can permit him to live in your house, now and in the future. With time, you will probably get that list, but you cannot help him, unless he wants to change. The advice the Dr. gave you about calling 911 is good, but he may not survive another event like that. Each time, it might result in an Accidental Overdose Death. I hope that suicide is not his goal. He needs help, but he is legally an "Adult" and that makes your ability to try to provide care for him extremely limited. absolutely! this. protect your younger children. as the younger sibling -my brother's actions (and my mother's inadequacy in dealing with them) contributed to the h3ll I lived as a teen. First, thank you all for your comments, suggestions and kind words. I was hopeful for a calm, rational discussion with s contrite young man but instead we got indifference/belligerence 'Everything is fine. It was blown out of proportion. I'm fine.' A few questions on where we go from here, short term.... 1. He is enrolled at a local cc - do we let him continue? 2. Do we allow him to drive - he has his own car, paid for by himself. Fyi - he has never come home high or drunk. He has always stayed out past his agreed upon return time instead, often coming home in the mornng. 3. What do we tell our 16 and 14 year old? Both go to public high schools and know about drinking and drugs, and I think they have suspected him of doing pot. 4. We have removed all medication/medicines and alcohol. Am I missing anything else? Thank you for all your support and kind words. his car, his payments, (unless you are on the title) out of your hands. you do NOT "know" he's never come home high or drunk. users/addicts lie. without flinching. be upfront with the younger kids - l assure you, they know. (their peers probably know! I had kids come up to me asking me all sorts of questions about drugs because my *brother* used). letting them know what you are doing about it, will help build their confidence in you. don't underestimate how much the younger kids have already been affected. there are cleaning chemicals that can also be used for 'huffing'. flavorings that contain alcohol. Edited February 15, 2016 by gardenmom5 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I keep thinking about this. I want to address the school question again. Before, I just said, "keep him in school." There is no over-stressing that, in my mind. Keep him in school! At times, it felt like we dragged our now adult son through college. And his first year was a waste. He repeated everything. Yes. That's expensive. But school kept him going. He hated it. He won't go to grad school. But he's done. He graduated. He has a real job, in his field. He is doing well now, and I'm proud of him. If he'd quit, he would have had more time to drink, to use. He'd have had more time to sink, to flounder, to wallow in the agony he was making. We are lucky that he could finish school. So, I see no question about whether you should let him continue school... Allowing him to continue wasn't a question here... It was the imperative. If you can keep him in school, by all means - do it. Therapy was tough. Finding a therapist it's that related well to young adults with substance abuse issues was key. Still, we had to force it, and take him. Lots of times he didn't go. But we tried hard. You'll be on my mind. Keep us posted. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Jen, I have zero advice to contribute but just wanted to say how very, very sorry I am that you and your family are going through this. You are in my thoughts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm so sorry. Echoing what others have said, he will lie to you all the time. Drugs lie. It's their stock in trade. That doesn't mean you have to treat him with perpetual suspicion, but you have to KNOW inside that he is probably lying when the chips are down, all the time. Also, he will steal from you. I would not want him in my home unless I was home. I would not let him have keys. I would not want him to know where stuff that was precious to me was. He will break into your home to get it if he thinks he can monetize it for drugs, and he will break into other homes that he has been in for the same reason, including extended family members. You need to warn his grandparents, particularly. And if he does not steal from you, his druggy friends who have been in your home will consider it as a target. Also, if he gets angry at you he will do wacked out destructive things. I have a relative who seems like a really gentle addict, but who fairly recently slashed all four of his father's tires because he wouldn't (because of being underemployed and not having time off or gas money) drive him to a city 5 hours away where this addict thought he could crash. You have (I'm sorry to say) entered a time of great potential danger to others than just him. It is very important to be realistic about this. If I were in this position, and could afford it, I would stay home all the time for a while and supervise the situation personally. With younger kids in the family, I might even pay for a room for him in an SRO place near the university if I could manage it, but I think being at home all the time would be important in that situation. Having said that, some kids do get over this, and some don't. I have known examples of both. A friend of mine had a kid who was doing all of this in high school, and at some point she gave it up, moved on, and became a financial planner of all things. I know someone else whose son kicked it for a while and then got sucked back in and died of a meth OD in his thirties. It's impossible to predict these things. These were both pretty comfortable, goodish families with kids with similar combo addictions. I think that a big factor in the second one was that the drugs either caused or were self-medicating for mild bipolar, which made it harder to stay off of them. You might want to read some memoirs about this kind of journey, or even novels. A couple of good ones are "A Beautiful Boy" and "Imperfect Birds" which are among the most realistic ones I have read. I am so sorry that you are going through this. It's just nuts. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momofgals Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 1. He is enrolled at a local cc - do we let him continue? 2. Do we allow him to drive - he has his own car, paid for by himself. Fyi - he has never come home high or drunk. He has always stayed out past his agreed upon return time instead, often coming home in the mornng. 3. What do we tell our 16 and 14 year old? Both go to public high schools and know about drinking and drugs, and I think they have suspected him of doing pot. 4. We have removed all medication/medicines and alcohol. Am I missing anything else? Thank you for all your support and kind words. I haven't been on this board in a long time, and usually I am a lurker. However, someone I love has very recently been going through this same thing, so I feel compelled to answer. I am so,so sorry, as I know that this is very painful for your family. I agree completely with others who have urged you to go to Al Anon or Nar Anon meeting as soon as possible. There you will find others who can offer you wisdom and support. A support group, as well as a professional rehab counselor, can help you understand how to care for yourself and the other family members as well as think through how to respond (or not respond) to your son's behaviors. Your ds, even if he is not high or drunk at this very moment, has a brain that has been affected by his drug and alcohol use. He will not be able to make sound judgments, as his thinking is what led him to the current behaviors. Also, it is a given that he is lying to you, whether it's about how he obtains the drugs or how much he is using or anything else regarding his behavior. I would disagree with the person who thinks that continuing going to school is a needed thing. That sends the signal that addiction is something to manage rather than a serious disease that needs to be treated or it could kill him. The most needed thing is for your son to be in a rehab program. While you can't force him to work the program, you can use leverage to get him there. If you are paying for school or supporting him financially in other way, then his going to rehab could be made a condition of his receiving any of that type of support in the future. He may decide that he would rather drop out of school and/or move out of your home. That would be very sad, but it would be his choice. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 ALSO, the first and most damaging thing he is lying about is that he is getting all of these drugs for free. Everyone says that and it is never true for this much stuff. He is stealing or dealing. That is the fact of the matter, because otherwise he would not have this much stuff to take. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 How is he doing in school? If he isn't actually going to class, using it as an excuse to go hang out with friends, using school as a place to meet his dealer, then I am not sure it is doing much good. I am not suggesting you 'force' him to quit. The semester has already begun and is paid for. I am suggesting you take every semester as it comes. IOW, if you are paying for school then it should be based on his sobriety and attendance and actually passing his classes. You have the right to set that boundary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spryte Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 How is he doing in school? If he isn't actually going to class, using it as an excuse to go hang out with friends, using school as a place to meet his dealer, then I am not sure it is doing much good. I am not suggesting you 'force' him to quit. The semester has already begun and is paid for. I am suggesting you take every semester as it comes. IOW, if you are paying for school then it should be based on his sobriety and attendance and actually passing his classes. You have the right to set that boundary. Yes, this is how we accomplished it. There was a fairly lengthy hospital stay, followed by out patient rehab, then regular therapy. In our case the bulk of the rehab was in the summer. Otherwise we'd have encouraged a semester break. After that, there were clear expectations re: therapy; rehab; sobriety; and grades. With clear consequences laid out for breaking the rules. Everything was reevaluated each semester. I was not advocating just paying for more school indiscriminately. But there is no doubt in my mind that if we'd not allowed him to continue school ... We'd all be in a worse place now. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I'm so sorry. Echoing what others have said, he will lie to you all the time. Drugs lie. It's their stock in trade. That doesn't mean you have to treat him with perpetual suspicion, but you have to KNOW inside that he is probably lying when the chips are down, all the time. Also, he will steal from you. I would not want him in my home unless I was home. I would not let him have keys. I would not want him to know where stuff that was precious to me was. He will break into your home to get it if he thinks he can monetize it for drugs, and he will break into other homes that he has been in for the same reason, including extended family members. You need to warn his grandparents, particularly. And if he does not steal from you, his druggy friends who have been in your home will consider it as a target. we had a couple of my brother's druggie friends break into our home, on two different occasions. My mother refused to call the cops because she thought she was protecting my brother. I was robbed at school - and called the police to let them know the thief had my keys and address and could easily break into our home. My brother proceeded to yell at me and pound on me for calling the cops. as the younger sibling - at times I wished I had the guts to call the cops on him, but I was afraid of what my family would do to me if I did. my mother was also robbed a year or so after my brother moved out. she went out and replaced stuff before filing a police report (which her homeowners insurance mandated if she wanted them to give her any money.) there's a point where "helping" has become enabling - and that is NOT "helping", but making things worse. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailaena Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Somebody up there said to be prepared for rage, and I want to make sure you hear that again. If you take a hard stance - on literally ANYthjng - there may be rage, the likes of which you cannot imagine. That alone is so, very difficult to deal with. Hugs. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 I agree with others above, that he did not get the drugs for free. And, if he got the drugs from "friends", they are, in fact, his enemies. However, dealers are only supplying a demand from the buyer, whether the product is drugs or cars. Demand creates the supply... What a terrible situation for the OP and her DH and her 2 younger DC, to say nothing of her older DS. I prayed for them today. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) Double Post. I am deleting this one. Edited February 16, 2016 by Lanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (edited) As you go thru your home trying to make it safe for him, be aware there are other things to lock up: Jewelry--all of it bonds in your strongbox passports silver knicknacks that can be hocked video games laptops family heirlooms See--it's practically impossible to protect everything, and most stuff can be sold to get $. Even a Keurig. Some things you may not have thought of to lock up afa drugs-- Mouthwash vanilla nutmeg hand sanitizer aerosols paint perm markers See--it's really hard to live that way. Everyone in the home has to remember, ALL THE TIME, to lock stuff up. He's probably stashing stuff, too--you have to look for drugs. Look behind posters on the wall in the basement on top of air ducts in the registers under and in the mattress, and in pillows in cases dressers Kleenex boxes in the rolls of toilet paper that are in the closet in each and every closet--check shoes, boxes, storage containers in the cars (not just his) crawl spaces sheds dog kennel old purses of yours See? Super-easy to hide pills, joints, whatever. These are all things I've had to contend with. The only way I could keep my home completely safe was for ds to willingly help de-drug our home, esp when it came to his stash. He needs to be out of your home, but be aware, as I said, it is very difficult to find a setting that works. The sad fact is, he will make new drug contacts if you place him in residential treatment. BUT it might be worth it. Pls get professional advice ASAP. I would call the college and see if he can be disenrolled or get incompletes that won't hurt his record "due to a health crisis." It's very natural to want to keep one thing--ANY thing--normal. So, we try to keep them in school, we try to not tell the other kids too much, we try to maintain a routine ("Oh, he'll be ok for an hour at home--I have to go to WORK! I have to go grocery shopping! I have to..."), we try to keep our sanity as the addict sucks away our sense of security and normalcy. It's a kind of denial. Again, I'm so sorry you have to do this. Maybe one day he'll say he's sorry and you will know you did all you could. I hope so. :grouphug: Edited February 15, 2016 by Chris in VA 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 All can add is :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MooCow Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 Regarding the drug dealers/his 'friends' or girlfriend....protect yourselves however you and your dh see fit. We've had gang bangers and some really sketchy people show up in our subdivision even with obvious law enforcement officers living here, knocking on our front door. (We even had two police in a row on one side of us!) While it was probably a determinant to some degree, that did not stop all of them. We had to watch our younger children play/go outside with somewhat hyper vigilance. It affected us all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 (Hugs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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