Would this rub you the wrong way?

[JumpyTheFrog]

Thanks everyone. You all made some good points.

Edited December 10, 2015 by HoppyTheToad

[Jean in Newcastle]

I've never felt that I had to justify my own personal unspoken opinions.  I don't think you are "sinning" by having this opinion.  It's a discernment and value issue.

[Catwoman]

I agree with you, Hoppy.

 

If that family is "broke," it sounds like it's because the man made some selfish and irresponsible life choices, not because of anything terrible that happened to him.

 

No sympathy from me, either.

 

(Edited for typos. Stupid autocorrect strikes again!)

Edited December 10, 2015 by Catwoman

[JustEm]

No. It may have at one point in time but honestly I feel like people work too much and don't get to actually enjoy life enough. Dh's uncle died this week. This is a man who worked hard all his life, retired 6 months ago ,and found out he had terminal cancer the day before he passed away. He had a good life but it could have been so much more enjoyable had he lived it up more prior to retirement.

 

This old friend of yours is choosing to enjoy life more now by working less and getting by in other ways while doing things he enjoys. Good for him. The Dr could have easily not given him a discount. Financial insecurity is a risk that person takes when choosing to work less.

[Starr]

It might be the doctor just dropped the bill to match what insurance companies actually pay. 

[madteaparty]

Well, insurance companies get discounts so I'm not sure why individuals can't at least ask for them.

Now talking about money in that manner and calling oneself broke would, in fact, rub me the awkward way.

[GinaPagnato]

Having worked for years in a doctor's office, yes, it does bother me.

 

The docs I know happily offer discounts to patients who are in bona fide financial straits. They can't possibly discount care to everybody who fancies themselves "broke", particularly when it's of their own choosing. In a sense, the discounts to people who really need it are offset by the ones who can afford to pay their bills and are actually paying them!

 

[mathmarm]

C'mon, OP, you don't really need anyone to approve your opinion or defend your inner-most thoughts. It's fine for you to disapprove of how he chooses to live and keep this to yourself.

 

Just keep doing what you did. Inwardly disapprove and outwardly stoic is fine.

[JumpyTheFrog]

C'mon, OP, you don't really need anyone to approve your opinion or defend your inner-most thoughts. It's fine for you to disapprove of how he chooses to live and keep this to yourself.

 

 

We haven't even seen this family for five years (and I heard a rumor recently that they moved away due to money troubles) because we had to dump them as friends for some other completely obnoxious behavior. So at this point, it doesn't really matter much whether my opinion was a good or bad one. I've always just wondered if I was being too critical, since I'm naturally more on the too-critical side.

[justasque]

"Because the stress was having serious effects on his health, the husband decided to change careers, working a full week at homesteading while still keeping a 10-15 hour a week job to keep a cash flow for the family so they could pay for things they could not make or grow themselves.  By living a frugal lifestyle, the family was able to make it work, but they needed to keep a sharp eye on their budget, looking for deals wherever possible."

See how that is different, yet the same?  I think in situations like this one, it could be that the husband is a total slacker, or it could be that he is a very hard worker.  We just don't know enough about the reasons for his career change, or about his finances, to judge.  There's certainly nothing wrong with speculating, but in the end, it's up to the doctor to decide under what circumstances he is willing to reduce his fees, and what information he would require before making the decision.  On the one hand, the doctor's work has a value that needs to be respected.  On the other hand, serious, full-time gardening is work too, and should be respected as such.  Where does the balance lie?  That's up to the doctor and the gardener to decide between themselves.

 

We haven't even seen this family for five years (and I heard a rumor recently that they moved away due to money troubles) because we had to dump them as friends for some other completely obnoxious behavior. So at this point, it doesn't really matter much whether my opinion was a good or bad one. I've always just wondered if I was being too critical, since I'm naturally more on the too-critical side.

 

 

ETA:  If they are obnoxious people in general, of course, then it's quite possible they were being obnoxious to the doctor by asking for reduced fees.  It's ok to look at other people and reflect on whether you'd handle a similar situation the same way.  In moderation, it's a healthy way of working through moral questions, which can inform your own actions down the line.  And if you find that you regularly have very different conclusions than someone else, it's ok to decide that you and they have little in common, and that you want to part ways.  Just remember the "in moderation" part, and understand that you can never fully walk in another's shoes.  There's a difference between learning from other's examples (for good or for bad), and being judgmental.  It's a fine line to walk.  If you're asking the question "am I leaning too far in the critical direction?", you're probably fine.

Edited December 10, 2015 by justasque

[idnib]

It wouldn't bother me if he explained he doesn't have insurance (if that's true) and would like the cash price, but if he just said he's broke that would bother me a bit, but not much.

 

FYI, I don't know where you live but here on the West coast financial folks often get up very early to deal with NY markets. A friend of mine was up at 3:15 am and in the office by 4:30 am, necessitating him to be in bed by 8:00 pm on weeknights. After he made lots of money he retired not because of the volume of work or travel but because he was tired of getting to bed so early and being restricted in what he could do with his evenings. On the plus side, he had been able to be home when his kids got out of school, but they grew up and that wasn't needed anymore either.

Edited December 10, 2015 by idnib

[abba12]

nm, took this too personally because my husband also only works part time, technically by choice though there were other factors involved, and is judged like this by others. 

 

You don't know the full circumstances, and some people have different priorities. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by abba12

[JumpyTheFrog]

 

What's the point of working, to come home and sleep, to go back and work to come home and sleep, and spend your days off maintaining a house and yard? Even before the medical part, we were trying to figure out how he could go part time and still keep our heads above water. We want to live our life now, while our kids are here and we are young.

 

I understand. I think the reason it bothered me so much was that it felt like he was lying somehow. Perhaps this is partly because he often seemed very flighty and unreliable. There were things he said and did that didn't add up (in fact, one man had already warned us about him before we had our falling out). So maybe this is more about my uneasiness with his lack of character in several areas than the actual career changes themselves.

[PeacefulChaos]

Eh.  Maybe a little, but then I think of where that line of thinking could lead, IMO...

 

If him making the choices he has should mean he can't get discounts at the doctor's office, what about me?  What about anyone who chooses not to work?  It's a slippery slope.

 

 

ETA: In case this comes off offensive, I don't mean it to.  I would probably originally think, 'seriously?' when I first heard about it, but then in the end, I would shrug it off because of the above.  I don't want to say it's not okay for them because I don't want it to not be okay for me.  Kwim?

Edited December 10, 2015 by PeacefulChaos

[Catwoman]

nm, took this too personally because my husband also only works part time, technically by choice though there were other factors involved, and is judged like this by others.

 

You don't know the full circumstances, and some people have different priorities.

Different priorities are fine, but when those priorities mean that Hoppy's friends can't pay their bills or afford a visit to the doctor solely because of the voluntary choices they made (and not due to unfortunate or unforeseen circumstances,) I don't think it's right to ask the doctor for discounts. Why should the doctor have to help pay for their lifestyle choice?

[mathmarm]

We haven't even seen this family for five years (and I heard a rumor recently that they moved away due to money troubles) because we had to dump them as friends for some other completely obnoxious behavior. So at this point, it doesn't really matter much whether my opinion was a good or bad one. I've always just wondered if I was being too critical, since I'm naturally more on the too-critical side.

Well, without knowing him, his mannerisms, his attitude, etc...it's hard to say if I would be bothered by this mans comment, but I can see why someone else might find it annoying.

 

I don't think you are wrong to have the opinion or thoughts that you do.

[Guest]

No, I wouldn't be upset. But I figure if someone changes jobs to something her pulls less money they have to do more independently to compensate. Every career is a lifestyle choice and a hobby farmer isn't less work than an investment banker. Just different.

 

My husband is in a similar boat of his crazy hard schedule keeping him away from the kids and affecting his health. We are working hard to bring him home and yes, it will be tight. But time with the family and less stress is worth it. Maybe this guy is a total loser, but we cash pay medical and the rates are truly ridiculous in a way many insured folks might not get. Asking for discounts is ALL that makes sense and if you have something like we now do, like CHM, you *have* to lobby for discounts. There is so much you may not know, I probably wouldn't judge unless you had more info.

 

That said, you can think whatever you want. People judge every day for all sorts of things.

[Garga]

Then he decided he didn't want to work so much (I never got the impression he was working crazy hours, although I guess he did travel maybe once a month), so he went down to 1/4 time and spent most of his time gardening, trying to grow much of his family's food.

 

 

The wording in this post is biased.  He "decided" he didn't "want" to work so much.  As written, it sound like he was lazy and randomly made this decision without much thought. 

 

I wish I could double quote because another poster re-wrote what you said in a manner that made him sound hardworking and thrifty, which is what I was thinking of doing but she beat me to it. 

 

Without knowing how it really went down--as written or as another poster postulated, though I bet it was something in between--it's hard to tell whether it would bother me or not. 

 

I mean, a good 90% or more of us on this forum choose not to make money.  There are quite a few of us on here who have financial difficulties and would ask the doctor for help with medical bills...just because we want to stay home with the kids and not go out and get a job. I don't think any of us think it's irresponsible when a homeschool family who has sacrificed financially to educate their kids asks for a discount because they're broke.  Should we judge that woman and say, "If they can't afford medical care, why isn't she out working?  Lazy bum."  Maybe we would, but I'm not so sure.  I've not seen it on this forum when someone writes a post about their medical bills.

 

I think you're holding him to a double standard.  He believes financial sacrifices to be with the family are more important that financial gain.  Sure, he can work and make money and everything would be fine.  But so can I.  Am I being selfish that I give up multiple tens of thousands of dollars a year that could help support my family?  Or am I being responsible and doing the right thing by educating my kids myself?

 

If he's a total ditz and this is just the icing on the cake, then sure you can be annoyed.  But if he just has a different value system than you, you are free to be annoyed but not everyone will agree that you are in the right.

 

The only reason I think you are right to be annoyed is that is sounds like there's a long history of strange behavior on his part.  Of course, perhaps it's not strange behavior to him, but is merely a different set of standards between the two of you.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Garga

[Catwoman]

No, I wouldn't be upset. But I figure if someone changes jobs to something her pulls less money they have to do more independently to compensate. Every career is a lifestyle choice and a hobby farmer isn't less work than an investment banker. Just different.

But if this guy's desire to garden all day isn't paying the bills and he is capable of doing something else that will pay the bills, I don't think he should be complaining that he is "broke." Instead, he should be finding a career that will pay enough to support his family.

 

Frankly, the guy sounds lazy to me. Yes, I know that's judgmental, but all I know is that there is no way that either my dh or I would allow our family to be "broke" just so we could spend our days gardening instead of working. (I'm not getting the impression that the farming is a business in this case.)

 

I wonder what the guy's wife does all day. Does she have a job?

[JumpyTheFrog]

I have a chronic illness, so I completely understand someone working part-time because of health issues.

 

Here's something related. I lurk on an early retirement forum. By early retirement, I mean people that invest 50-90% of their income so they can retire by 30-35 (although they may only have $25,000 per year to live on, so it has to be an extremely frugal retirement). (Some of the more extreme people there believe nobody should have kids until both parents have retired.) In any case, one of the biggest proponents of this kind of super-early retirement loves the ACA because then his followers can retire on a low investment income and then get heavily subsidized health insurance for the next thirty years.

 

This kind of thinking also bothers me. If someone chooses to retire super early, fine. But I don't like the idea of tax money going to prop up the finances of a young family for decades because they voluntarily choose not to work at all. Of course I realize that this is only a super tiny number of families, so it isn't going to bankrupt the country or anything. And I guess our system is set up to be income based, not wealth based. That's how some of them rationalize it: The subsidies are based on income, so it doesn't matter whether someone has $500k in the bank.

[Guest]

See I consider that sort of insurance move to be fraud, or at least an unethical use of the current crappg guidelines. We don't know this guy and don't know if this is similar. If it is then I wouldn't support that either. There is making wise or shrewd choices, and there is gaming the system. It's common but that doesn't make it right.

[Desert Strawberry]

I generally find judging the choices of others which have no impact on me does not enrich my life.

 

I would not judge his choices because, frankly, it's none of my business what he chooses to work at, how much, when, where, or in what manner. I certainly am not privy to anyone's finances but my own.

 

I'd not like to be judged for staying home or for my husband's choice of where to work or where we live or how we live. And to be honest, if anyone does judge us, I neither know, now care to know. I'm sure this man feels similarly. 

[JennyD]

 

NM.  (I cross-posted, and Garga made the same point, but much more clearly.)

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by JennyD

[goldberry]

So if I ask the doctor for a discount because I choose to stay home and raise children rather than making a second income, am I lazy and selfish and expecting the doctor to pay for my lifestyle?  That's really harsh, and yes, I think overly critical.  OP, you are not the one saying that, but I am referring to some of the comments on other posts.

[goldberry]

 

 

I often feel this way about myself as a homeschooling SAHM, actually.  For years we did not belong to a religious organization because we could not afford the dues and I just could not come to terms with applying for a reduced rate.  The overwhelming majority of members were in two-working-parent families, many working long hours in demanding, lucrative jobs.  And there we were, deliberately choosing a different route, picking time over money.  It just seemed wrong to claim 'need.'

 

 

There is something that disturbs me about this view in society, but I'm not sure how to articulate it. Jenny, not directing this at you, but the idea being "out there" in society...

 

It is okay to be in financial need because you work 60/80 hours a week but don't make enough money.  It's not okay to be in need because you think your children having a parent in the home is more important than other factors.  Or maybe because you think there should be a dad around more than just after 10 pm.  There's something wrong there.  But it's part of our larger culture I think.

[Jaz]

I had a neighbor next door who claimed they were broke and was constantly in crisis. I bought groceries. My dh gave his expensive golf clubs to her dh. We tried to bless them even though we didn't have any extra money at the time. Later, I found out they owned a home in another state that they were selling and had been consistently contributing monthly to their kids' college funds. Our dc didn't have college funds because we couldn't afford it.

 

I felt taken advantage of, so I understand a bit of how you are feeling. But then, I had to remind myself that while we had less financial resources, I felt blessed. I'd rather have my life of contentment than hers of crisis.

[catz]

We are definitely a family who has chosen a somewhat simpler lifestyle for a higher income.  So I think prioritizing family is great.  That said, it is a delicate balance.  I have a family member who hit up an aging, parent for LARGE sum of money recently under this guise of whoa is me.  But it really is the culmination of very poor financial decisions along with thinking an upper middle class life style is some sort of entitlement.   Not everyone needs a car less than 3 years old and the latest smart phone in their pocket.  They really don't.  This person literally carries a nicer phone and drives a nicer car than I do. 

 

I have a huge problem with the health care system in this country so I don't even want to go there.  We should all get health care IMO.  I do have a problem when people who are otherwise capable make poor decisions that eventually affect us all.  Unpaid bills don't just disappear.  They get absorbed so we're all paying more later.  I fully support social safety nets and am on the left generally.  But I do know a few people who seem to combine entitlement with poor financial planning.  SO many banks and credit cards will over lend as well, which doesn't help.  If this is a person with a large family and no health insurance at all, that's just a dangerous game right now.  If they otherwise keep their kids clothed and fed and it's JUST a health care thing, I'm sympathetic. 

 

I would never tell someone I don't approve of their lifestyle.  I'm a live and let live type.  That said, I don't think happy thoughts about those who appear to be taking advantage of others when there seems to be a sense of entitlement involved.  The few I'm thinking of I know intimately.  I don't think about it when I just know them in passing and don't hear from the others they're hitting up for money.  I would guess the OP has a stronger reason for feeling this way about this person. 

Edited December 10, 2015 by WoolySocks

[Catwoman]

So if I ask the doctor for a discount because I choose to stay home and raise children rather than making a second income, am I lazy and selfish and expecting the doctor to pay for my lifestyle? That's really harsh, and yes, I think overly critical. OP, you are not the one saying that, but I am referring to some of the comments on other posts.

In this case, the father went from working full time to quarter time because apparently he preferred gardening over having a job. That's all well and good if he had planned and saved for it, so the family wouldn't be "broke," but that isn't what seems to have happened here.

 

Honestly -- and this may not be a popular sentiment -- but if you have a family and are "broke," it's time for someone to at least try to get a job in order to financially support that family. I don't think it's right to go around asking for discounts in the situation Hoppy described.

 

I'm still wondering whether or not the mom has a job.

[regentrude]

"Self-induced"? "By his own choice"?

 

Many families on this board have made the choice for one parent not to work outside the home at all, because they find it best for their families. Many of them incur financial hardships as a consequence.

How is it any different that this family decided to have the man cut down the hours at his job and focus on raising food for his family?

Are you treating his choice differently because he is a man ?

Edited December 10, 2015 by regentrude

[regentrude]

Frankly, the guy sounds lazy to me. Yes, I know that's judgmental, but all I know is that there is no way that either my dh or I would allow our family to be "broke" just so we could spend our days gardening instead of working.

 

Gardening to raise food is back breaking hard work.

 

I have friends who are homesteading. They are the hardest working people I know. They are poor, because they choose to work towards their dream.

[goldberry]

In this case, the father went from working full time to quarter time because apparently he preferred gardening over having a job. That's all well and good if he had planned and saved for it, so the family wouldn't be "broke," but that isn't what seems to have happened here.

 

Honestly -- and this may not be a popular sentiment -- but if you have a family and are "broke," it's time for someone to at least try to get a job in order to financially support that family. I don't think it's right to go around asking for discounts in the situation Hoppy described.

 

 

 

There are huge assumptions here about this man and his motives.  I'm surprised anyone would make those assumptions about someone they don't even know.  Maybe his motives were bad, I don't really know.  But neither does anyone else.

 

Regarding your second comment: My friend had a small baby and finally left her drug using husband, mostly to keep baby safe.  She could either get a job that after child care paid table scraps, or she could get on public assistance and stay home with her baby.  She chose to stay home with her baby.  

 

She did not make that choice because she was lazy or had a poor work ethic.  She made that choice because she thought her daughter would be better served by her being there.  And I agree with her.  When her baby was old enough (potty trained) she got a job at a daycare where she could take baby along.  

 

There are families where both parents work 60 hours a week and the kids are raised by daycare providers.  They may not need assistance, but we as a society may end up paying in other ways.  

 

 

 

[goldberry]

"Self-induced"? "By his own choice"?

 

Many families on this board have made the choice for one parent not to work outside the home at all, because they find it best for their families. Many of them incur financial hardships as a consequence.

How is it any different that this family decided to have the man cut down the hours at his job and focus on raising food for his family?

Are you treating his choice differently because he is a man ?

 

I think you nailed it right there.

[J-rap]

Yes, on the surface, it bugs me.  But I think I'd let it go and just figure I might now know everything that's going on with him/them.

[Catwoman]

"Self-induced"? "By his own choice"?

 

Many families on this board have made the choice for one parent not to work outside the home at all, because they find it best for their families. Many of them incur financial hardships as a consequence.

How is it any different that this family decided to have the man cut down the hours at his job and focus on raising food for his family?

Are you treating his choice differently because he is a man ?

No, it has nothing to do with him being the man. It has everything to do with him being the breadwinner of the family, yet making a choice that has caused his family to go broke.

 

I consider that to have been an extremely irresponsible decision.

 

And I'm still wondering whether or not the mom works outside the home.

[Catwoman]

There are huge assumptions here about this man and his motives. I'm surprised anyone would make those assumptions about someone they don't even know. Maybe his motives were bad, I don't really know. But neither does anyone else.

 

Regarding your second comment: My friend had a small baby and finally left her drug using husband, mostly to keep baby safe. She could either get a job that after child care paid table scraps, or she could get on public assistance and stay home with her baby. She chose to stay home with her baby.

 

She did not make that choice because she was lazy or had a poor work ethic. She made that choice because she thought her daughter would be better served by her being there. And I agree with her. When her baby was old enough (potty trained) she got a job at a daycare where she could take baby along.

 

There are families where both parents work 60 hours a week and the kids are raised by daycare providers. They may not need assistance, but we as a society may end up paying in other ways.

Your friend did the best she could when faced with extremely unfortunate and unforeseen circumstances. I'm sure she didn't marry her dh assuming he would become a drug addict who would endanger her and her baby, but she took action to protect her child even though it meant her life was going to be difficult. I specifically said -- more than once -- that unfortunate and unforeseen circumstances were something entirely different from what this guy seems to have done.

[Catwoman]

Gardening to raise food is back breaking hard work.

 

I have friends who are homesteading. They are the hardest working people I know. They are poor, because they choose to work towards their dream.

Homesteading is fine. Living frugally while they work toward their dream is admirable. But if they go around telling people like their doctor that they are too broke to pay their bills because of their lifestyle choice, I don't have a lot of respect for that.

 

I have friends who are homesteading as well, but they budgeted, scrimped, planned, and saved for years in order to be able to afford to do it -- and the dh still works half time to make sure they have enough money to live on. It's not an easy life, but they love it -- but the dh has told us that he would go back to full time employment in a heartbeat if it meant the family could no longer afford to pay their bills.

[Reefgazer]

Wouldn't bother me at all; more power to the people who get the discounts.  The fact is, if the doctor couldn't afford to hand out the discount, he wouldn't have given one.  Also, we don't know what other serious issue prompted working 1/4 time; lots of people don't want to talk about personal stuff that may have triggered that.

This is a question about a family we used to be friends with...

 

The husband was some sort of investment banker (I think). I have no idea how much they earned, but they had 5-6 kids and lived in a modest house (<2000 sq ft) with reasonable cars. Then he decided he didn't want to work so much (I never got the impression he was working crazy hours, although I guess he did travel maybe once a month), so he went down to 1/4 time and spent most of his time gardening, trying to grow much of his family's food.

 

He told me that when they went to the doctor, they asked for a discount because they were "broke." This really bothered me, not because I'm against asking for discounts, but because the reason they couldn't afford full price was because he was only working part-time by his own choice. I felt like he was trying to con the doctor somehow. Am I being too harsh with my opinion (which I never said anything about, for the record)?

 

 

ETA: I understand about asking for discounts to pay the normal insurance rate and all and I think that's fine, since health care costs are often almost a scam themselves. What bothered me was primarily the "broke" part, since it was self-induced.

 

[SKL]

Well, he *is* broke, right?  If the doctor billed him the whole amount, it might have been harder to collect and not worth it.  It can be a good business decision to write off an amount owed by someone who won't be in a position to repay in the foreseeable future.

 

Also, if we get into "he's broke because of his own choices," that could be said about lots of people.

 

I think doctor services are usually way overpriced.  I know there are all sorts of reasons the docs "need" to charge $200 for spending one minute looking at the patient and prescribing a bandaid.  But I think they have a pretty significant cushion compared to most businesses.

[SKL]

Yeah, there's a difference between 'broke because my paycheck is due tomorrow and I spent all my cash on rent, food and transport' and 'broke because all my money is in shares'.

 

Was his money in shares?

 

Some doctor offices have a program where they will write off bills for "indigent" people.  But their definition of "indigent" may not be what people expect.  My sister was unemployed for a long time, and when an expensive procedure was recommended for her, she said she had no way to pay it.  They said don't worry, financial aid will pay if you are indigent.  So she went ahead.  Then they billed her and said she was not indigent, because she might be able to pay "someday."  The bill was outstanding for years.  I think they finally wrote it off after she jumped through a lot of hoops.

 

Anyhoo, no, it doesn't generally rub me the wrong way when people get discounts.  More power to 'em.  ;)

 

FTR I have never done this, in case anyone is wondering.  :P  I did ask if I could get a discount at the dentist for paying cash (over $600 uninsured work on my kids), but they said no, they don't do that.  (Some offices do, or so I hear.)

 

[Tsuga]

This is a question about a family we used to be friends with...

 

The husband was some sort of investment banker (I think). I have no idea how much they earned, but they had 5-6 kids and lived in a modest house (<2000 sq ft) with reasonable cars. Then he decided he didn't want to work so much (I never got the impression he was working crazy hours, although I guess he did travel maybe once a month), so he went down to 1/4 time and spent most of his time gardening, trying to grow much of his family's food.

 

 

He told me that when they went to the doctor, they asked for a discount because they were "broke." This really bothered me, not because I'm against asking for discounts, but because the reason they couldn't afford full price was because he was only working part-time by his own choice. I felt like he was trying to con the doctor somehow. Am I being too harsh with my opinion (which I never said anything about, for the record)?

 

 

ETA: I understand about asking for discounts to pay the normal insurance rate and all and I think that's fine, since health care costs are often almost a scam themselves. What bothered me was primarily the "broke" part, since it was self-induced.

 

As someone who was a single mother who was ashamed to use the word "broke", it rubs me the wrong way that someone else can use it to their advantage and not be ostracized for it.

 

But that's my own insecurity. I could never ask for help as a single mother whose husband left her because it was such an incredible shame. I'd rather pay interest on all of this for years than admit that I was broke, such a horrible social shame it would be to be a "single mom in need of help".

 

So yeah, I'm jealous of him that he can say that and nobody's gonna be, "Why'd you have all those kids you can't afford, bud? Keep your legs together man!" No. As a Latina woman who did everything right and worked a respectable job and NEVER in my LIFE asked for a discount, I'm rubbed the wrong way. It seems unfair that he could proudly  ask for that and not expect to be maligned, upbraided, shamed, and maybe even left.

 

But that's not asking for a discount. It's just the unfairness of it all, to be honest.

 

A black woman goes in with much more honorable circumstances--even working a salaried position, married woman, husband in the hospital after let's say they just bought a house at a worse interest rate just because they're black--he has no flipping idea how much she will suffer if she says she's broke. He has NO idea.

 

THAT bothers me.

 

Not that he asked for a discount per se, because costs are insane and he's decided to do the right thing for his family. No. The unfairness.

[kiwik]

I would assume that he cut down work hours because of medical or mental unwellness, shrug and say 'it takes all types' and move on.  Life is too sure to get upset about what others do unless there is harm involved.  Since the doctor could have said no there is no real harm.

[TammyS]

Yes, it would bother me.  Mostly because physicians have a limited amount of money available to discount low-income patients and he's taking away from that fund for people who truly need it (people who would LOVE  to work full time, but can't find anything).  Frankly, I think he's an asshat.  If he's wealthy enough not to work, he needs to pay full freight and not take from the poor.

[kewb]

I don't think it would bother me.  Since you have already stated you stopped being friends with this person for other reasons I will say the dislike you already felt is fueling your distate at what he said.  There will be nothing this person can do that would be "right".  You could see him standing in a corner eating potato chips and think to yourself "look at him.  Standing there.  Eating those potato chips.  Who does he think he is."  I say this because ds has a friend I can't stand and I have thought things like my previous statement.

 

You truly don't know his financial situation or all his reasons for choosing part time work.  Perhaps that is a save face move on his part.  Financially strapped or not, it doesn't matter.  Either way, it is none of my business.  It is between him and the doctors office.

[elegantlion]

No, it wouldn't bother me, except it sounds like this person bothers you in general. 

 

Garga said most of what I wanted to say, many of us here would ask for discounts while we're the ones who choose to be home. 

 

From my perspective, I've seen too many men "break" at a certain age and it damages them in so many ways, so I certainly wouldn't begrudge someone changing their role and living a more frugal life. 

 

As for the discount, it comes off braggy to tell you, but unless you're looking at their bank statements, then no, you don't know. Most doctors I know where we've asked for a discount ask for paperwork to back up your claim, they don't just give it out willy-nilly. Broke is subjective and their is no harm in asking. The onus is on the doctor to say yes or no. 

[8circles]

There could be all sorts of circumstances that we don't know about, and generally speaking this wouldn't bother me. I do think there are parallels to choosing to stay home to educate one's children. But there is one major way that this is different *for me* is that if homeschooling meant us being broke, we wouldn't have done it. There might be circumstances that mean being broke & homeschooling is better but we don't know if that is happening here.

 

I support peolple simplifying their lives, even if that means lower income. But cutting back so much that you're now 'broke' seems extreme. Could it not have been done gradually? Could they not save a bit more before making the change? Like I said, there could be circumstances in the op's situation which make this OK - but I do raise my eyebrows with the way this situation reads.

[happypamama]

Sure, maybe it would rub me the wrong way a tiny bit, but really? No, there's just so much you don't know about the reasons for their decisions. It doesn't quite sound like he's totally lazy. It sounds like he's still doing something worthwhile with his time, spending it growing food. If he were sitting on the couch eating chips and watching tv all day, that'd be a little different to me, and I'd have less sympathy for him (although I'd assume there was still something I didn't know). The doctor could ask for more information or documentation before granting a discount, but I think that's between the doctor and the family and isn't anyone else's business. I think there are a few people who will try to game the system, but largely, most people have a good and reasonable reason for doing what they're doing.

[zoobie]

So the doctor, who is working, should make less money because this family wants to garden? He's preventing people who actually need the help from getting it, and that's icky. Planning for one parent to stay home is different. If you're not able to pay your bills and your kids' bills, you need to work. Or try to work. Otherwise you're a grifter. If you want to retire and garden 24/7, plan for it. You don't just quit and walk around asking other people to support you.

[Saddlemomma]

This is a question about a family we used to be friends with...

 

The husband was some sort of investment banker (I think). I have no idea how much they earned, but they had 5-6 kids and lived in a modest house (<2000 sq ft) with reasonable cars. Then he decided he didn't want to work so much (I never got the impression he was working crazy hours, although I guess he did travel maybe once a month), so he went down to 1/4 time and spent most of his time gardening, trying to grow much of his family's food.

 

He told me that when they went to the doctor, they asked for a discount because they were "broke." This really bothered me, not because I'm against asking for discounts, but because the reason they couldn't afford full price was because he was only working part-time by his own choice. I felt like he was trying to con the doctor somehow. Am I being too harsh with my opinion (which I never said anything about, for the record)?

 

 

ETA: I understand about asking for discounts to pay the normal insurance rate and all and I think that's fine, since health care costs are often almost a scam themselves. What bothered me was primarily the "broke" part, since it was self-induced.

 

In my mind, I would have to break it down to what was actually known about this person in order to be able to accurately determine whether or not he did something "wrong" socially.  So, here's how I broke it down:

 

Known Information vs. (unknown info) according to post:

• Some sort of investment banker (not sure what type or what level)
• had 5-6 kids (not exactly sure of the number)
• lived in modest house (not sure of the value)
• reasonable cars (reasonable according to whom? age? value?)
• unsure of work hours (this is a sticking point)
• work may have involved travel - (not sure of this or how much)
• cut hours to 1/4 of total time (How are we sure of this, or how much time this amounts to, if we are unsure of total work hours? Has the OP considered whether the "friend" is lying to cover embarrassment over cut hours, partial layoff, non-disclosed health issues?)
• Spends most of his time gardening (how do we know this is taking up most of his time - do we count the hours of the day he spends on gardening? How much time is he actually out in his garden vs. 1/4 time of actual work?)
• Produce from gardening used to supplement food (We do this and it saves us a TON at the grocery store. This is a plus in my thinking.  He's trying to save money and provide in a different way for his family.)
• They went to the doctor (known as this was told to OP. How do we know this wasn't an appt for him and a potially undisclosed illness which caused the cut hours? We just don't know.)
• Asked for discount because they were "broke" (as told to OP - we don't know if the "friend" used the word "broke" with the doctor, or just used it with the OP to describe why they asked for a discount.)

There's just too much speculation, either way, to come to a definitive conclusion on the merits of this "friend" asking for a discount, using the word "broke", or determining whether or not he is gaming the system.  We're only reading about one side of the conversation/observation.  There are two sides to every situation.  The OP could be right and justified in her thinking or way off base.

 

Therefore, I would withhold any judgement.

[JumpyTheFrog]

.

Edited December 10, 2015 by HoppyTheToad

[marbel]

I often jump to conclusions about people based on my own biases about them, or about people that seem to be like them.  Fortunately I keep my conclusions to myself.  Most often, if I get more information, I realize how wrong I was and then am ashamed of myself for letting my brain go where it did.  Or, I will find myself in the position of the person I'm criticizing (in my mind) and receive a bit of insight into their situation.  

 

Some people call that Karma, some call it the Holy Spirit.  :-)    In any case, I'm usually thankful for it, after I get over being annoyed with myself.   :-)