mamaraby Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm not convinced they just want handouts. I think they have a rather extreme dream that isn't entirely impossible, but they're not equipped to make it happen. They seem to want help on their own terms and I'm pretty sure that most (no) LDS bishops aren't going to be willing to help make their dream happen. That fits well with the suggestion that they sold stuff that had been donated to them- they seem to have their own idea of what they need to live their lives and don't really want anyone else's help in making that happen. I think it's entirely possible that means they aren't capable of caring for and educating 11 children and won't accept the help they need to become capable.I finally got around to listening to the audio recording that she made of her encounter with the police, and based upon the sorts of things that she says, I think that's entirely likely. They have this idea that they can do everything on their own without anyone's assistance (she talks about how she didn't "hire" the police, but that she is required to pay for them, plus her insistence that she can take care of her own family, etc). There's a definite rigid adherence to their ideal and a disconnect from reality. I think the preaching to the choir bit is also applicable here. I don't understand how they think that the blog and the audio recording puts anything that happened in a positive light. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking Squirrels Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I haven't read the whole thread but did read some, so I noticed the lack of books was brought up. I was scrolling through their photos on their facebook page and saw some. It was posted last October and it was a table full of piles of books. She said she was going through them to sort by topic to put in boxes for storing since they didn't have shelves. I didn't want to link from here to their page but I can if it's wanted. I'm not saying anything about them or their case one way or another, but it at least looks like they do own some books. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropymama Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In Mongolia it is called a Ger. My husband spent a year with members of the Mongolian Army and they had their own ger in Afghanistan. He really, really wants to put one up in our backyard. They are so much bigger inside than they look from the outside. Am I the only one who picked up on the fact that Dr. Who lives in a yurt? :laugh: Now I want one! This is an excerpt from the Go Fund Me page. If the funds are not used for these purposes, would that constitute fraud? We ask for your support for the Naugler family at this time. Any support is greatly accepted. At the start of this campaign, the Nauglers didn’t know what it would take to get their children back and they are now in the process of determining with an attorney what needs to be done to ensure the safe return of their children and providing better for their basic necessities. Included in the costs are expected to be multiple things: $25,000 - Physical materials and upgrades including labor costs to the home including a fence, finishing a new primary living structure, and permanent solutions for clean water and electricity. $3,000 - Purchase of laptops or phones and other technology aids and a reading library of age-appropriate books for their children. $15,000 - Purchase of a newer, more reliable 15-passenger van for family transportation. $2,000 - Possible unforeseen expenses related to the children being kept in the home such as the cost of travel to fight this and time off work from Nicole’s pet grooming business. If excess funds are available beyond these needs, funds will be used for outreach to help other poor families in similar circumstances to keep their children. Erm, I would also like $15,000 for a new van. I'm in the market but my budget is considerably less. Oh, and $3,000 for books! Yes please! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yeah, they're just a couple Relief Society visits away from being just fine... No, it's far more than that. I did not know that the family had been accused of selling previous donations/help from their church. Even with that, I would think that in searching out potential foster families for the kids, local LDS families would be a good choice if the family member who took the eldest son is unable to take all 10 (likely). Why? They knew the family and the kids--so at least on some level, these families would not be strangers. They are familiar with the faith/beliefs of the family (or at least what the more normal beliefs the family once had...or appeared to have). It's not like they're living in Utah, where being LDS is the norm. In many areas of the country, there is still discrimination "not true Christians" type stuff about LDS members. Just as when Muslim kids are put up for fostering, the first goal is to try and find a Muslim family to take them. (Not usually that easy, as Muslims don't tend to be involved with fostering out of misunderstanding regarding adoption/fostering.) Do I think that it's in the best interest of the children to be returned at this point? Nope. Do I think that separating 10 children....a likely outcome, and remembering that these kids have mainly socialized only with each other for the past few years....is a good idea? Nope. The mother looks pregnant in the video posted from the news. So now it's 11 children (plus the one from the previous relationship). Honestly, if I was the judge I would go for court-ordered vasectomy....but I'm sure that's not legal. (Although I'm beginning to think it should be.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 No, it's far more than that. I did not know that the family had been accused of selling previous donations/help from their church. Even with that, I would think that in searching out potential foster families for the kids, local LDS families would be a good choice if the family member who took the eldest son is unable to take all 10 (likely). Why? They knew the family and the kids--so at least on some level, these families would not be strangers. They are familiar with the faith/beliefs of the family (or at least what the more normal beliefs the family once had...or appeared to have). It's not like they're living in Utah, where being LDS is the norm. In many areas of the country, there is still discrimination "not true Christians" type stuff about LDS members. Just as when Muslim kids are put up for fostering, the first goal is to try and find a Muslim family to take them. (Not usually that easy, as Muslims don't tend to be involved with fostering out of misunderstanding regarding adoption/fostering.) Do I think that it's in the best interest of the children to be returned at this point? Nope. Do I think that separating 10 children....a likely outcome, and remembering that these kids have mainly socialized only with each other for the past few years....is a good idea? Nope. The mother looks pregnant in the video posted from the news. So now it's 11 children (plus the one from the previous relationship). Honestly, if I was the judge I would go for court-ordered vasectomy....but I'm sure that's not legal. (Although I'm beginning to think it should be.) I realize it is far more than Relief Society visits. I was being sarcastic. The family is in serious trouble. I said I think what is happening could be due to mental illness. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 We'll have to agree to disagree on the toilet issue. :) I have seen composting toilets on a few of the "tiny house" shows, and I think they are pretty darned disgusting. Forget about whether or not they smell -- who would want to clean them out? And with a family that large, let's just say it must be a very substantial -- and frequent -- job. Yikes. I have to say, though, that considering the conditions under which that family has been living, the composting toilet may very well be the most sanitary part of their living environment. You don't clean them out when they have poop. They collect the waste in a drum (and you add a scoop of compost mix when you go) and when it's filled to a certain point, you remove the drum and keep it rotating like a compost drum. You swap another drum into place while the other one turns to compost. After a certain amount of time (with a bit of curing) it's compost with no smell or pathogens and you dump it out. I wouldn't dump it on edibles, though, just in case. More than you ever wanted to know about composting toilets. I were in a situation like this family, I would rather have the composting toilet over a port-a-potty or a pit latrine. Of course I'd prefer modern plumbing. I haven't convinced you, have I? :ack2: 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I haven't read the whole thread but did read some, so I noticed the lack of books was brought up. I was scrolling through their photos on their facebook page and saw some. It was posted last October and it was a table full of piles of books. She said she was going through them to sort by topic to put in boxes for storing since they didn't have shelves. I didn't want to link from here to their page but I can if it's wanted. I'm not saying anything about them or their case one way or another, but it at least looks like they do own some books.One of the things they were requesting donation money for was books (they called it "a reading library") for the kids, which is why the book thing came up. Apparently they perceive there is something they can gain or rectify with acquiring books and computers for the kids. Or perhaps they included that in the request to look more sympathetic. I think it is possible GoFundMe will cancel the campaign. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I realize it is far more than Relief Society visits. I was being sarcastic. The family is in serious trouble. I said I think what is happening could be due to mental illness. I know you were. :) But I also didn't want you to think that I truly believed that's all it would take. It's obvious that there are mental health issues involved. I wish the court would order some sort of psychiatric evaluation of the parents. I don't even know if that's the norm in cases like these. It worries me to think that if they do get a bunch of donations, and fix up their "home" (well, build a completely new structure, etc.), that all of a sudden the kids will be back with two mentally ill, clueless, neglectful and abusive parents. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I know you were. :) But I also didn't want you to think that I truly believed that's all it would take. It's obvious that there are mental health issues involved. I wish the court would order some sort of psychiatric evaluation of the parents. I don't even know if that's the norm in cases like these. It worries me to think that if they do get a bunch of donations, and fix up their home, that all of a sudden the kids will be back with two mentally ill, clueless, neglectful and abusive parents. It isn't obvious to everyone, based on dozens of posts here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 To me, I think it's pathetic that two able-bodied people are begging for money on the internet. Housing, transportation and food are not extraordinary expenses, such as occurs when one's child has cancer and medical bills are beyond one's ability to pay. And I am a liberal in every way, and I understand that many people need "a leg up" sometimes to get back on their feet, and I support food stamps and shelters and the like. But to ask for $50,000 so they can get a house and a car? While they swipe water, bounce checks and run a failing business, all the while having more babies? No. Just no. And, as far as I have seen, can't be bothered with jumping through the hoops to get food stamps, which they almost certainly qualify for. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You don't clean them out when they have poop. They collect the waste in a drum (and you add a scoop of compost mix when you go) and when it's filled to a certain point, you remove the drum and keep it rotating like a compost drum. You swap another drum into place while the other one turns to compost. After a certain amount of time (with a bit of curing) it's compost with no smell or pathogens and you dump it out. I wouldn't dump it on edibles, though, just in case. More than you ever wanted to know about composting toilets. I were in a situation like this family, I would rather have the composting toilet over a port-a-potty or a pit latrine. Of course I'd prefer modern plumbing. I haven't convinced you, have I? :ack2: Well, I was worried it was not really a real one, more of a bucket or...something....the outhouse thing didnt look.... like it belonged in a national park, yk? And plus with the animals? Did they have pens for them? And kids running around playing in the mud.....they said they were in compliance with that (I thought) so all that was grossing me out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think it is somewhat likely that this "composting toilet" is really a pit toilet/outhouse. These are not interchangeable things. I think it is probable, looking from how little this couple seems to know about building a home off the grid, that they wouldn't have the first notion of how to build and properly use a composting toilet. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This article has an interesting "video tour" of their food preparation area. ("A look around the Naugler's makeshift kitchen." - it's in the middle of the article.) I have camped for a week with better cooking arrangements. Good grief. Why doesn't she have an oven? She's got the materials to build one right there! Go to a garage sale and get another table? Clean before giving a tour? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 True but without water access or rights, who's buying? There's a lot of nearly worthless land out there. I read on their blog that the land had water rights. What it doesn't have is a functioning well. Ditto the septic, the land has had it but it doesn't presently work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I read on their blog that the land had water rights. What it doesn't have is a functioning well. Ditto the septic, the land has had it but it doesn't presently work. Septic and wells cost money it would seem they don't have. No shame in that but when you don't have that money, you have to make other choices about where to live. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I have camped for a week with better cooking arrangements. Good grief. Why doesn't she have an oven? She's got the materials to build one right there! Go to a garage sale and get another table? Clean before giving a tour? What worries me is that she probably DID clean before the tour. And if that's what she thinks is acceptable to put up on the internet, I can only imagine what that place looks like on a normal day. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hold the phone...I just realized the older boy also alleged sexual abuse. :sad: ETA: That he was sexually abused. He didn't say that about the siblings as far as I know. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/reality/ If I were her, I would take this down :( I mean at what point do you take your babies in a car to sleep for your ideals? Not because you have to but because you want to? Where was her dh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think it is somewhat likely that this "composting toilet" is really a pit toilet/outhouse. These are not interchangeable things. I think it is probable, looking from how little this couple seems to know about building a home off the grid, that they wouldn't have the first notion of how to build and properly use a composting toilet. I question whether they even have the know how to build a proper pit toilet/outhouse. (which is easier) and the distance it needs to be from where people and water sources are. and pens for the animals. that there is a *reason* for keeping things sanitary. . . . . (and it's not just the mean gubmint trying to control them.) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hold the phone...I just realized the older boy also alleged sexual abuse. :sad: Yeah :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hold the phone...I just realized the older boy also alleged sexual abuse. :sad: That is awful. :( I hope it's not true, but I worry that it might be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's not terribly likely he came out to the courthouse just to make things up about his parents, is it? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Losing not just custody but parental rights for the older son is definitely a potential red flag. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arliemaria Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Hold the phone...I just realized the older boy also alleged sexual abuse. :sad: Is there a link to a story covering this? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakelly Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I hope they put as many of the kids together in foster care as they could. This really does seem like a bad situation :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Is there a link to a story covering this? kwg posted a link earlier. The story mentions sexual abuse, but it's about the entire hearing, not that specifically. Here's the mention: Alex chose to speak to the media about his father. He was taken away at age 4 he says. He said the conditions he was living in at the time in a different state with Joe, weren't as primitive as their plot of land in Breckinridge County, but said he suffered abuse none the less. "I got all the beatings. I got most of the mental abuse. There was a lot of sexual abuse towards me. We had a very dysfunctional relationship," said Brow. Brow stated it was the first time he had laid eyes on his father since he was taken away from him more than a decade ago. He told WBKO the reason he was in Kentucky, was to help his ten brothers and sisters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Here's the bit I find incongruous: She's taken money donated to her, and is building a pet salon grooming business in a strip mall, complete with four sturdy walls, several rooms, a roof of modern construction, running water, and working HVAC. Her kids don't get to live with any of these amenities of life. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I want to cautiously (and non-politically) state that anyone should be careful with Infowars news articles. Alex Jones is behind them, and his primary goal is to shock and scare people in as entertaining a manner as possible, and his primary focus is government overreach. Now I lean slightly libertarian, so I'm not huge on overreach either, but there is a difference between responsible journalism and political shock-jock antics. If you would take stories from Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Rachel Maddow or Al Sharpton (trying to cover the spectrum there) with a giant grain of salt, he's another example. I think it's pretty clear that this family is not the poster child for individual liberty. My brothers were Back to Nature hippies complete with free love and drugs, yet they had access to Mother Earth News and built very nice homesteads for themselves. Then they got it together, gave up the drugs and lived there for many years raising their kids off grid but still fairly comfortable. So there were resources even back there if someone cared to do their homework and work their buns off. This family has so much more available to them and yet haven't done their homework and don't seem to work very hard. I can't second this enough.. That lifestyle is possible, but it is much more work than many people tend to think when they're dreaming about it. You must constantly be working to improve your situation, and it's clear to me that this family is not. My dad had a hobby farm. We idealize the concept of having a hobby farm too, but the thing that holds me back is knowing the reality of how much work it is and how expensive it is to do properly. DH sometimes fantasizes about horses... until I list all the things you need to do for them, and how the training, riding, mucking, feeding, fetching feed, etc. they probably average three hours of work per day. Now maybe if you're a horse person that's not three hours of work, it's three hours of fun... but ultimately if we got goats, rabbits, chickens, horses, a giant garden, a pond, an orchard, and maybe some pigs, turkeys, etc... all the things that would make it truly possible to be close to self-sufficient for say, 80% of our needs, all of that responsibility would fall to me. DH works too much to make those his job. And I'd rather live in a subdivision next to a golf course where the worst of maintaining things is feeding the dogs or cleaning up branches every other day during tornado season. Maybe someday when there are no more noses to wipe or colleges to pay for we'll get an acreage. I'd bet by then we'll be old, tired, and would prefer a lake house to retire in. We'll have to agree to disagree on the toilet issue. :)I have seen composting toilets on a few of the "tiny house" shows, and I think they are pretty darned disgusting. Forget about whether or not they smell -- who would want to clean them out? And with a family that large, let's just say it must be a very substantial -- and frequent -- job.Yikes.I have to say, though, that considering the conditions under which that family has been living, the composting toilet may very well be the most sanitary part of their living environment. I can't figure out the love of composting toilet trends either. From what I understand, for composting to work properly you must separate liquid and solid waste by going in different containers. I don't know how that would be possible for most women. If I sit down to do one, I often do the other. Let alone children. I hope they really mean an outhouse. No, it's far more than that. I did not know that the family had been accused of selling previous donations/help from their church. Even with that, I would think that in searching out potential foster families for the kids, local LDS families would be a good choice if the family member who took the eldest son is unable to take all 10 (likely). Why? They knew the family and the kids--so at least on some level, these families would not be strangers. They are familiar with the faith/beliefs of the family (or at least what the more normal beliefs the family once had...or appeared to have). It's not like they're living in Utah, where being LDS is the norm. In many areas of the country, there is still discrimination "not true Christians" type stuff about LDS members. Just as when Muslim kids are put up for fostering, the first goal is to try and find a Muslim family to take them. (Not usually that easy, as Muslims don't tend to be involved with fostering out of misunderstanding regarding adoption/fostering.) Do I think that it's in the best interest of the children to be returned at this point? Nope. Do I think that separating 10 children....a likely outcome, and remembering that these kids have mainly socialized only with each other for the past few years....is a good idea? Nope. The mother looks pregnant in the video posted from the news. So now it's 11 children (plus the one from the previous relationship). Honestly, if I was the judge I would go for court-ordered vasectomy....but I'm sure that's not legal. (Although I'm beginning to think it should be.) Could you do a spin-off thread on this? I'm curious. Septic and wells cost money it would seem they don't have. No shame in that but when you don't have that money, you have to make other choices about where to live. Newer systems do cost money, but shovels don't cost much. Men used to dig wells in 1-3 days, so I think it's more than probable they just didn't want to do the work. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 We'll have to agree to disagree on the toilet issue. :) I have seen composting toilets on a few of the "tiny house" shows, and I think they are pretty darned disgusting. Forget about whether or not they smell -- who would want to clean them out? And with a family that large, let's just say it must be a very substantial -- and frequent -- job. Yikes. I have to say, though, that considering the conditions under which that family has been living, the composting toilet may very well be the most sanitary part of their living environment. That's not how a composting toilet works. You just cover the hole when it's full and dig a new hole elsewhere near the garden, and plant over that one. It's a very good system and it doesn't smell that much. You don't clean it out. You dig anew. Or is this something else? I just googled. Good lord. I tell you, people have lost all sense. You can dig a hole for FREE without all that nonsense, and certainly no cleaning out required, for a proper direct to garden composting toilet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's not how a composting toilet works. You just cover the hole when it's full and dig a new hole elsewhere near the garden, and plant over that one. It's a very good system and it doesn't smell that much. You don't clean it out. You dig anew. Or is this something else? I just googled. Good lord. I tell you, people have lost all sense. You can dig a hole for FREE without all that nonsense, and certainly no cleaning out required, for a proper direct to garden composting toilet. What you're describing is called an outhouse here. Composting toilets are inside, you go in a bucket, so they must be emptied quite frequently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I don't know how that would be possible for most women. If I sit down to do one, I often do the other. Well, yes, if you put pressure on your bowels you're generally putting pressure on your bladder at the same time. The solution seems to be to pee (or empty your menstrual cup!) before you move over to the pooper. That seems fairly self-explanatory. Edit: Also, the wikipedia article on composting toilets is fascinating. I had no idea there were so many options for these! As we're not in a drought prone area I feel more comfortable solving my own qualms about dirtying up potable water by installing an illicit graywater system, but all this information is making me feel educated for the impending zombie apocalypse! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 kwg posted a link earlier. The story mentions sexual abuse, but it's about the entire hearing, not that specifically. Here's the mention: the supporting/anti-gov comments - and accusing the son of lying - are really disturbing. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiac Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Just to be clear on the term "off grid." It can mean very different things. Either someone is not using electricity or it means they have ways of supplying their own electricity (solar, hydro, wind, back up generators, back up batteries, etc.) themselves. There are off-grid people who have all the modern conveniences of air conditioning, refrigerators, computers, etc. that are powered by different means on their own property. Some of them even live in the suburbs or city. Heck yes. Detaching from networked utility systems is not a big deal if you have the resources to replace the grid-connected services. This guy is off-grid and appears to have an outstanding quality of life. Not everyone is going to be this sophisticated about it, but this family appears to have disconnected into squalor. This book convinced me that off-grid living is not half as romantic as our culture makes it out to be: A Widow's Walk Off-Grid to Self-Reliance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Re: composting toilets Apparently, some dry toilets are designed in such a way as to automatically divert urine. However, they aren't all composting toilets. I really do learn something new each and every day! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I've researched composting toilets almost as thoroughly as yurts. If I ever have an RV, I'd prefer the composting to emptying a black water tank. I'd readily convert to composting toilets if zoning allowed, we owned the place, and my domestic partners would get on board (not likely!). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am fascinated by people who may or may not be big supporters of welfare and the like taking such an, errr, conservative stand with this family. There are plenty of able-bodied lazy parents who don't work and draw welfare checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I know you were. :) But I also didn't want you to think that I truly believed that's all it would take. It's obvious that there are mental health issues involved. I wish the court would order some sort of psychiatric evaluation of the parents. I don't even know if that's the norm in cases like these. It worries me to think that if they do get a bunch of donations, and fix up their "home" (well, build a completely new structure, etc.), that all of a sudden the kids will be back with two mentally ill, clueless, neglectful and abusive parents. Yes...I totally agree. Fixing up the "homestead" without addressing the underlying issues would be a temporary band-aid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 kwg posted a link earlier. The story mentions sexual abuse, but it's about the entire hearing, not that specifically. Here's the mention: /OT-ish: That article is so poorly written. Yikes! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/reality/ If I were her, I would take this down :( I mean at what point do you take your babies in a car to sleep for your ideals? Not because you have to but because you want to? Where was her dh? I read the part about where she and her dh could just "get a 9-5 job for a few years, join the rat race, and save some money" and basically do this right. Um. Yes. That's what you should have done. YOu have 10 kids. You have no money. You're sleeping in a van in the winter. Put the kids in school, get two or three or four jobs, cobble them together, save like there is no tomorrow and in 3 or 4 year you could have DONE. HOMESTEADING. RIGHT. Whether she likes it or not, certain things require CASH. Cold. Hard. Cash. And sometimes you have to sacrifice your "values" to earn that cash. Life is not black and white, and holding onto some mirage of your "ideals" while your children get sick, sleep in the cold, and live in a lean-to is not only selfish. It's criminal. 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You don't clean them out when they have poop. They collect the waste in a drum (and you add a scoop of compost mix when you go) and when it's filled to a certain point, you remove the drum and keep it rotating like a compost drum. You swap another drum into place while the other one turns to compost. After a certain amount of time (with a bit of curing) it's compost with no smell or pathogens and you dump it out. I wouldn't dump it on edibles, though, just in case. More than you ever wanted to know about composting toilets. I were in a situation like this family, I would rather have the composting toilet over a port-a-potty or a pit latrine. Of course I'd prefer modern plumbing. I haven't convinced you, have I? :ack2: I would actually prefer a composting toilet - they are far more of a sustainable technology than conventional plumbing. Using clean water to put poo in is actually pretty crazy when you stop to think about it. A good friend of mine's parents have a hommade composting toilet which is more or less a sort of advanced pit toilet and it's quite nice. A family of twelve is a lot for many small commercial composting systems though. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am fascinated by people who may or may not be big supporters of welfare and the like taking such an, errr, conservative stand with this family. There are plenty of able-bodied lazy parents who don't work and draw welfare checks. There is a difference between relying on properly allocated public entitlements and stealing/begging the way these people are doing. These people spurn the help they could be receiving. Like food stamps and WIC. I said earlier in the thread that a family doing what they could--including access public benefits--and still struggling would be a different situation. Beggars can't be choosers. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well, yes, if you put pressure on your bowels you're generally putting pressure on your bladder at the same time. The solution seems to be to pee (or empty your menstrual cup!) before you move over to the pooper. That seems fairly self-explanatory. Edit: Also, the wikipedia article on composting toilets is fascinating. I had no idea there were so many options for these! As we're not in a drought prone area I feel more comfortable solving my own qualms about dirtying up potable water by installing an illicit graywater system, but all this information is making me feel educated for the impending zombie apocalypse! You can do the pee thing in a few ways. In some, as was mentioned, its automatically diverted. If its a homemade version, there are two basic options. One is if you are just having a pee, you use a different bucket. If you are pooping, you can do both in the big bucket. That much pee is ok, you just don't want the proportions to be too high so it is very wet. But a lot of people actually add some other materials to soak up the pee and just use a single bucket for both - peat moss is a traditional choice though not used as often now - but something biodegradable and absorbent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's not how a composting toilet works. You just cover the hole when it's full and dig a new hole elsewhere near the garden, and plant over that one. It's a very good system and it doesn't smell that much. You don't clean it out. You dig anew. Or is this something else? I just googled. Good lord. I tell you, people have lost all sense. You can dig a hole for FREE without all that nonsense, and certainly no cleaning out required, for a proper direct to garden composting toilet. The thing is, even a nice pit toilet requires some ground for the pit. A good composting toilet can work where that isn't possible, like inside, in a trailer, or in a place where you are more or less on bedrock. Also, it's a little more contained, and it isn't likely to leach or anything like that since it is doesn't go in the ground until it is done composting. For these reasons its actually illegal to have pit toilets in a lot of places a composting toilet is ok. i have no issue with a pit toilet, but in some places they don't make as much sense. A homemade composting toilet is actually a lot like a pit toilet, but the composting is done in a more controlled way, so you can be sure that it is complete and relatively efficient. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I believe they may still technically be LDS but not practicing. Apparently they didn't get along well with people in their congregation. (This is a summary of what someone who knows (and likes) them said in an LDS group I'm on). Yeah. Interestingly, from what people who knew them in the ward they were in said, they created all sorts of havoc in the ward (a huge mess) and talked very badly about people and things (they are very much "victims"), but all the while they were getting aid and food from the Church (that is confirmed on their old blog). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanitaL Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 With all of this chatter, I'm beginning to think the composting toilet has the makings for the next hot MLM company. Somebody needs to jump on this, become their own boss, and make their millions. I'm nearly convinced I need a composting toilet. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There are people who claim that their bishop/church (whatever ther terminology is) did help them and donated all sorts of things to them (beds, mattresses, etc), but that the family sold all of the donations. Granted, it's all just rumor and speculation, but it would appear they have burned some bridges. If you read posts on their old blog, they were getting help from the Church, including food. They didn't say if they got other stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised since they were already getting other help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://yacity.blogspot.com/2015/05/12-reasons-you-shouldnt-listen-to.html?m=1 This one is pro the Nauglers. A FB friend posted it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yeah. Interestingly, from what people who knew them in the ward they were in said, they created all sorts of havoc in the ward (a huge mess) and talked very badly about people and things (they are very much "victims"), but all the while they were getting aid and food from the Church (that is confirmed on their old blog). and they still are to hear their side. "victims" are generally very manipulative because they want "support" (sympathy and money) and if people saw them for what they *really* are (dysfunctional and abusive), they wouldn't be getting that support. I'm flabbergasted by the amount of "support" they are getting, how cps is 'picking on them'. (in the form of comments, and donations, on various web articles posted about them.) and this type of manipulation IS abusive. the conditions they were forcing their children to live in is abusive. they don't have to live like that, they could get help to improve their living conditions - but they want what they want. these parents need psychological help (which they certainly aren't willing to get) and to change before their kids would be safe with them. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Ivy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://yacity.blogspot.com/2015/05/12-reasons-you-shouldnt-listen-to.html?m=1 This one is pro the Nauglers. A FB friend posted it. I like that they deleted comments that didn't agree with them. :huh: Yep. That helps the cause for sure. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 these parents need psychological help (which they certainly aren't willing to get) and to change before their kids would be safe with them. By now, so do the children. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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