Have you all followed the Naugler family?

[Mergath]

This is an excerpt from the Go Fund Me page. If the funds are not used for these purposes, would that constitute fraud?

 

We ask for your support for the Naugler family at this time. Any support is greatly accepted. At the start of this campaign, the Nauglers didn’t know what it would take to get their children back and they are now in the process of determining with an attorney what needs to be done to ensure the safe return of their children and providing better for their basic necessities. Included in the costs are expected to be multiple things:

 

$25,000 - Physical materials and upgrades including labor costs to the home including a fence, finishing a new primary living structure, and permanent solutions for clean water and electricity.

 

$3,000 - Purchase of laptops or phones and other technology aids and a reading library of age-appropriate books for their children.

 

$15,000 - Purchase of a newer, more reliable 15-passenger van for family transportation.

 

$2,000 - Possible unforeseen expenses related to the children being kept in the home such as the cost of travel to fight this and time off work from Nicole’s pet grooming business.

 

If excess funds are available beyond these needs, funds will be used for outreach to help other poor families in similar circumstances to keep their children.

 

Wow. Just wow. They're living in a shack and have had their children taken away, and they want strangers to give them three grand to buy gadgets?!? When the parents already have smart phones??? 

 

And from the sound of it, they already have a van. They just want a newer, prettier one. *shakes head* Anyone who gives these idiots money isn't much smarter than they are. How about asking for donations to get the family into a decent rental long enough for dad to get off his lazy ass and look for a job? Sure, it might not be the idyllic, bloggable Little House in the Big Woods lifestyle the mom has envisioned, but you know what? Sometimes when you have kids, you don't get every single thing you want. When you have kids, you have to put their safety and health ahead of your own whims.

 

I'm a liberal dem and have no problem with people who need it receiving assistance, but this is ridiculous.

[Catwoman]

Wow. Just wow. They're living in a shack and have had their children taken away, and they want strangers to give them three grand to buy gadgets?!? When the parents already have smart phones???

 

And from the sound of it, they already have a van. They just want a newer, prettier one. *shakes head* Anyone who gives these idiots money isn't much smarter than they are. How about asking for donations to get the family into a decent rental long enough for dad to get off his lazy ass and look for a job? Sure, it might not be the idyllic, bloggable Little House in the Big Woods lifestyle the mom has envisioned, but you know what? Sometimes when you have kids, you don't get every single thing you want. When you have kids, you have to put their safety and health ahead of your own whims.

 

I'm a liberal dem and have no problem with people who need it receiving assistance, but this is ridiculous.

I particularly love the super-generous magnanimous part where they say that they will give any excess funds to other poor families. :rolleyes: Yeah. Right. Suuuuuuure they will.

 

I am amazed that people are actually giving them money! :svengo:

[justasque]

This article has an interesting "video tour" of their food preparation area.  ("A look around the Naugler's makeshift kitchen." - it's in the middle of the article.)

[LucyStoner]

I think some back to the land types seem to think homesteading will be as idyllic as the first Boxcar Children book, but all grown up.

 

Mosey down to the dump for cups and plates, clean them with sand and boiling water, get a lot of cherries from an odd job, use stones to make a little swimming pool.

 

Then be rescued by a kindly grandfather with a mansion.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Whomever joins this bandwagon is pretty well showing that they care more about their agendas (sovereign citizen, parental rights, hs'ing) than about the immediate health and welfare of these children. If HSLDA does take this up, the rest of us might have to finally take them ON to show the world they do not represent US.

[LucyStoner]

I am rather befuddled to imagine how one, in the United States, has 10 children but in all that time acquires no or very few books.

 

Part of unschooling is ample access to reading materials that interest you.

[Pawz4me]

 

 

Does anyone else find it hilarious that she makes a living on what some of us would consider to be one of the most frivolous, urban-related, froufrou profession this side of the millennium? Anyone? I mean, I am all for great vet care but pet grooming? As a fun hobby or job for someone into that side of life, I get it. But you want to live off the grid. Because civilization is evil. And yet your job is one of the most superfluous society has ever produced. You can't make this stuff up.

 

No.  I think it's a very legitimate profession.  I groom my own dogs because I enjoy it and have the time for it, but many people who have dogs who require haircuts (and many breeds do) don't have the time, expertise or interest to do it themselves.  From what I understand a good groomer in the right location can earn a very decent living.  Dying a dogs hair or painting its nails or giving bizarre haircuts is frou frou. Providing basic grooming (bathing, utilitarian haircuts, nail trims) isn't at all.

 

 

She's self-employed. I think her talk about the grooming business is more her hope than the reality. I have a feeling she has a few clients and makes a little side money on it, but not enough to live on by far. The more I read, the more it seems like she's just clueless and in way over her head.

 

:iagree:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I am rather befuddled to imagine how one, in the United States, has 10 children but in all that time acquires no or very few books.

 

Part of unschooling is ample access to reading materials that interest you.

 

Nodding. It's like they're giving more ammunition to people who think they have an unfit home. :( "Please give us books so it looks like the children are learning, food so it looks like they're eating, clothes and lumber so we can make people think we're protecting them from the elements...." this is very sad.

[MomatHWTK]

The news article indicated that the family is sitting on a 27 acre lot. If they sold 26 acres, they'd probably have a little more money. 

[LibraryLover]

Has CPS taken all of the children?  Was the baby nursing?

[Artichoke]

This article has an interesting "video tour" of their food preparation area. ("A look around the Naugler's makeshift kitchen." - it's in the middle of the article.)

I have to say that video is disturbing.

[LucyStoner]

No. I think it's a very legitimate profession. I groom my own dogs because I enjoy it and have the time for it, but many people who have dogs who require haircuts (and many breeds do) don't have the time, expertise or interest to do it themselves. From what I understand a good groomer in the right location can earn a very decent living. Dying a dogs hair or painting its nails or giving bizarre haircuts is frou frou. Providing basic grooming (bathing, utilitarian haircuts, nail trims) isn't at all.

Yep. I know pet groomers who make a comfortable living. It's not easy to groom a dog. Nor is it a new urban job. My great grandmother was a groomer for decades.

[Χά�ων]

I am rather befuddled to imagine how one, in the United States, has 10 children but in all that time acquires no or very few books.

 

Part of unschooling is ample access to reading materials that interest you.

It is not a new thing. When I was young my parents did foster care, on one of the home visits the social worker was over joyed to see books in the house. Apparently, it was the first time he had encountered books in the home of a foster family.

 

 

I like to think he was new and my parents were, at most the second visit he made. It saddens me to think of houses without books.

[LucyStoner]

The news article indicated that the family is sitting on a 27 acre lot. If they sold 26 acres, they'd probably have a little more money.

True but without water access or rights, who's buying? There's a lot of nearly worthless land out there.

[mamaraby]

This article has an interesting "video tour" of their food preparation area. ("A look around the Naugler's makeshift kitchen." - it's in the middle of the article.)

I have to give the Daily Mail a tiny bit of credit. At the end of the article they mentioned that the story prompted "outrage in the homeschool community." Sounds about right.

 

As for dog grooming being "frou frou." My Golden Retriever begs to differ. It's kind of a necessity and I'm confident he's glad I take him somewhere and don't attempt to do it by myself. I imagine he'd end up traumatized otherwise.

[LucyStoner]

Has CPS taken all of the children? Was the baby nursing?

She's pregnant. It's quite possible that she wasn't nursing still.

[LucyStoner]

Also, why is she carrying all the water here?

 

She has had 10 kids and counting.

She works (presumably PT) as a dog groomer.

She sells bows.

She blogs.

The kids roam and weren't being schooled.

 

Of the things (however insufficient) that seem to be happening, it's all her.

 

What, do tell, is he doing? Clearly it's not building them a house or installing a water system.

[justasque]

Interesting "Best Practices" document about homeschooling in KY; a joint effort between homeschoolers and the state.  Basically, the state requires notification and keeping educational records (which normally would not be shown to anyone unless a complaint arises, but which should be kept nonetheless).  

I thought these parts of the document were interesting:

Regarding the records:

We would recommend that whatever your preferred form of student assessment, the records be kept in a formal, organized manner for two reasons: first, this will be your child's permanent record of educational accomplishment. It is only right that the records be in a form that is concise and useful. Second, in the event your records should evercome under scrutiny by someone else, the quality of your school will be judged to some degree by the quality of your records. While it may be the case that records kept on the back of envelopes, calendar pages, or paper plates do meet the letter of the law, such a casual approach to record keeping would raise doubts in the minds of skeptics.

Regarding inspection of records:

HSR #6 is one of the most controversial portions of the home school law in Kentucky. It provides that private schools shall be open to inspection by directors of pupil personnel or officials of the Department of Education. It is believed that this was originally written without awareness of the existence of home schools, places that were both homes and schools. As a result, the provisions of this statute appears to conflict with the rights given by the U.S. Constitution to every American citizen against unreasonable search and seizure.

 

It is our understanding that "home inspections" by school personnel will stop at the threshold unless consent is given by the homeowner. In the absence of imminent threat (the house is on fire, for instance) entry into a private home can only occur with the presentation of a lawfully executed warrant. All homeschoolers should be aware of this fact.

 

On the other hand, if genuine concerns exist in the mind of school personnel as to the legitimacy of a particular home school, it may be in that family's interest to meet with the school official, preferably at a neutral site, in order to address any questions.

 

In conclusion, we recommend consideration of the following:

 

a) In the event you are informed of an impending visit, talk with the official and try to agree upon a suitable time and place outside your home to review your records.

 

b) In the event a home visit is unannounced or in cases where prior mutually agreeable arrangements cannot be made, we recommend that you seriously consider the ramifications of allowing government officials to enter your home without warrant. It is certainly your prerogative to invite anyone to see your home school: friends, family or local school officials. It is another thing for you to accede to their demand to review your material in your home.

 

c) Furthermore, we suggest that you conduct your home school in such an exemplary manner that no one in your community will be concerned about the quality of the job you are doing.

 

Considerations prior to embarking on a home school journey In order to have the very best possible experience as a home schooling parent, we suggest that you take into consideration the following practical issues; responsible home education can be a daunting task and should not be entered into without due consideration. Although it affords ample opportunity for educational excellence and flexibility, it requires a high degree of commitment and energy to be successful. Listed below are some factors that should be thoroughly considered prior to embarking on a home school journey.

 

Home schooling is very time-consuming. To do an adequate job the home school parent(s) must devote considerable time and energy to class preparation, instructional time, grading papers, etc. Many families have had to change their lifestyle significantly -- switching from a two-income to a one-income family, for instance -- in order to accommodate the demands of home schooling. It is a decision that should not be made on impulse or without sufficient forethought.

 

Home schooling requires initiative. While excellent material is available to assist the home schooling parent, putting it together in a manageable form for a given family requires a great deal of work and creativity. Since each family is different it is clear that the final form home education takes will vary from family to family. To be a good home schooler requires a certain independent spirit, willingness to try new things and a reasonable level of self-confidence.

[Orthodox6]

I am impressed, positively, that a state government partnered with homeschoolers to draft explicit recommendations.  Have any other states done this?

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

This is an excerpt from the Go Fund Me page. If the funds are not used for these purposes, would that constitute fraud?

 

We ask for your support for the Naugler family at this time. Any support is greatly accepted. At the start of this campaign, the Nauglers didn’t know what it would take to get their children back and they are now in the process of determining with an attorney what needs to be done to ensure the safe return of their children and providing better for their basic necessities. Included in the costs are expected to be multiple things:

 

$25,000 - Physical materials and upgrades including labor costs to the home including a fence, finishing a new primary living structure, and permanent solutions for clean water and electricity.

 

$3,000 - Purchase of laptops or phones and other technology aids and a reading library of age-appropriate books for their children.

 

$15,000 - Purchase of a newer, more reliable 15-passenger van for family transportation.

 

$2,000 - Possible unforeseen expenses related to the children being kept in the home such as the cost of travel to fight this and time off work from Nicole’s pet grooming business.

 

If excess funds are available beyond these needs, funds will be used for outreach to help other poor families in similar circumstances to keep their children.

 

They are also getting money ostensibly for their business on Capistan

 

http://capistan.com/projects/blessed-little-grooming-company/

[Carol in Cal.]

My parents fell a bit prey to this when I was a kid. Thus I grew up in a cabin in the middle of nowhere. But it really was fine - idyllic at times.

Oh right.  I know some homesteaders who did well, and others who did poorly and stopped.

 

But there were those few who were so clueless that they developed severe sanitation-related diseases from having the outhouse too close to the water source or sleeping quarters, or whose kids almost starved and they barely realized it.  It's a skillset lack, and it's sometimes coupled with a countercultural mindset that allows no questions.

[Farrar]

This article has an interesting "video tour" of their food preparation area.  ("A look around the Naugler's makeshift kitchen." - it's in the middle of the article.)

 

You guys... I feel like there's been some sort of turning point. I know it's just the Daily Mail, but I've never seen a piece like this that also included quotes from homeschoolers distancing themselves from the neglect and abuse. The entire final bit of the article has quotes from homeschoolers who have spoken out against them. I'm just... wow. That feels like a change.

 

Also, that "kitchen" is, indeed, pretty terrible.

[Anne in CA]

I will personally pay for a vasectomy for the dad involved. That is all.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I will personally pay for a vasectomy for the dad involved. That is all.

I will go halfsies with you on it.

[DawnM]

I will go halfsies with you on it.

 

Really, you need to start a GoFundMe account.......everyone else is doing it.

[Word Nerd]

They are also getting money ostensibly for their business on Capistan

 

http://capistan.com/projects/blessed-little-grooming-company/

 

Whose only funding project thus far is the grooming business. I wonder who is behind Capistan?

[Lakeside]

No.  I think it's a very legitimate profession.  I groom my own dogs because I enjoy it and have the time for it, but many people who have dogs who require haircuts (and many breeds do) don't have the time, expertise or interest to do it themselves.  From what I understand a good groomer in the right location can earn a very decent living.  Dying a dogs hair or painting its nails or giving bizarre haircuts is frou frou. Providing basic grooming (bathing, utilitarian haircuts, nail trims) isn't at all.

 

 

 

:iagree:

There were pictures of this on the blog.

[Tsuga]

No.  I think it's a very legitimate profession.  I groom my own dogs because I enjoy it and have the time for it, but many people who have dogs who require haircuts (and many breeds do) don't have the time, expertise or interest to do it themselves.  From what I understand a good groomer in the right location can earn a very decent living.  Dying a dogs hair or painting its nails or giving bizarre haircuts is frou frou. Providing basic grooming (bathing, utilitarian haircuts, nail trims) isn't at all.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I did not say it's not a legitimate profession, I said it's a profession that depends on a highly developed, civilized, wealthy society. Like, a society that can afford to think of animals as pets, not assets, and which treats those pets with care that was until recently only had by wealthy people. (I.e. have someone else do your nails and hair.) Not to mention, who bred those dogs? It wasn't a single human in a forest. Dogs were bred in communities of people (and communities of dogs).

 

And that that is not compatible with their supposed values of being off the grid.

 

I have zero problem with whatever froufrou things anybody wants to do. Be my guest. I don't care if you make your living staging condominiums for flipping or making airplane pendants for frequent fliers, I do. not. care. Also, live off the grid if you please. But don't go preaching the virtue of getting off the grid, to the point that you are asking your children to forgo basic health and safety (and my standards are not that high, see above posts), while at the same time the only thing that's keeping you alive is a business that would not exist without thousands of years of human development to support that level of specialization and wealth aggregation. No. Just, I don't want to hear it.

 

My job is EXTREMELY dependent on a developed society. I could never do my job without a highly developed society with different classes, etc. But my job came along before professional pet groomer was a thing so there you go.

 

If she spent half that energy breeding cows and chickens and learning to properly garden, they might be better off, because dog grooming cannot be that lucrative.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I did not say it's not a legitimate profession, I said it's a profession that depends on a highly developed, civilized, wealthy society. Like, a society that can afford to think of animals as pets, not assets, and which treats those pets with care that was until recently only had by wealthy people. (I.e. have someone else do your nails and hair.) Not to mention, who bred those dogs? It wasn't a single human in a forest. Dogs were bred in communities of people (and communities of dogs).

 

And that that is not compatible with their supposed values of being off the grid.

 

I have zero problem with whatever froufrou things anybody wants to do. Be my guest. I don't care if you make your living staging condominiums for flipping or making airplane pendants for frequent fliers, I do. not. care. Also, live off the grid if you please. But don't go preaching the virtue of getting off the grid, to the point that you are asking your children to forgo basic health and safety (and my standards are not that high, see above posts), while at the same time the only thing that's keeping you alive is a business that would not exist without thousands of years of human development to support that level of specialization and wealth aggregation. No. Just, I don't want to hear it.

 

My job is EXTREMELY dependent on a developed society. I could never do my job without a highly developed society with different classes, etc. But my job came along before professional pet groomer was a thing so there you go.

 

If she spent half that energy breeding cows and chickens and learning to properly garden, they might be better off, because dog grooming cannot be that lucrative.

 

Dog grooming can be very lucrative if you have a shop (and experience, equipment, and references) in the right market.  Rural Kentucky is not the right market.

[LucyStoner]

Whose only funding project thus far is the grooming business. I wonder who is behind Capistan?

This Capistan thing raises a lot of red flags.

 

Guaranteeing a 10% return? Making statements like bitcoin is perfect and easy?

 

How would paying someone 12% interest save her hundreds in interest? Did they buy their land on a credit card or something?

 

Who invests because someone says they have an AMAZING business plan?

 

It seems that they are running afoul with the law. You can't promise someone a return.

[Tsuga]

Dog grooming can be very lucrative if you have a shop (and experience, equipment, and references) in the right market.  Rural Kentucky is not the right market.

 

I feel I'm being misunderstood.

 

I am not saying it's not a good business, or that there's something wrong with it, or that it's all froufrou. I don't have any issues with dog grooming as a health-related field or as a froufrou business. On the contrary I'm thrilled that people take care of their animals and that people are making money this way. Great.

 

I am saying it's incompatible with the Naugler's supposed values and the way of life they claim to want.

[Jean in Newcastle]

The whole thing reminds me of the back to the land movement when I was a kid.

People were so idealistic and so freakin clueless.  That is a deadly combo, let me tell you.

Especially for the children.

My brothers were Back to Nature hippies complete with free love and drugs, yet they had access to Mother Earth News and built very nice homesteads for themselves.  Then they got it together, gave up the drugs and lived there for many years raising their kids off grid but still fairly comfortable.  So there were resources even back there if someone cared to do their homework and work their buns off.  This family has so much more available to them and yet haven't done their homework and don't seem to work very hard.  

[mamaraby]

If she spent half that energy breeding cows and chickens and learning to properly garden, they might be better off, because dog grooming cannot be that lucrative.

I don't know. It's $60 (including tip) when I take my dog in and I've paid more other places (and got worse haircuts). If you were booked solid every day? Maybe. On the other hand, a lot of groomers also have additional pet related businesses. My current groomer runs a kennel and breeds Golden Retrievers and Poodles. I think it's possible you could support a large family on the income if you diversified. You could probably even live out in the country and homestead.

 

I don't think you could do so if you lived the way this family does. IMO, if the groomer's facilities looked like this family's home does, there's no way I'd trust them with my dog.

 

I think part of the issue p, too is their family size. It's one thing if you want to homestead and live off the grid with a family of three or four. Any failures in your garden/food production would be tough, but they'd also be easier (probably barely, small families still starved when their crops failed in ye olden days) to mitigate, but a family of 10 kids? Suddenly even small failures could have huge consequences.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I feel I'm being misunderstood.

 

I am not saying it's not a good business, or that there's something wrong with it, or that it's all froufrou. I don't have any issues with dog grooming as a health-related field or as a froufrou business. On the contrary I'm thrilled that people take care of their animals and that people are making money this way. Great.

 

I am saying it's incompatible with the Naugler's supposed values and the way of life they claim to want.

 

I agree with you and was supporting you that in general it isn't a lucrative business on its own.

 

And yeah, OTG folks going into dog grooming is quite odd.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Whose only funding project thus far is the grooming business. I wonder who is behind Capistan?

 

Scammers gonna scam.

[Tsuga]

Okay, well, fair enough... $60 / hour sounds pretty decent. I still don't think it's compatible with the lifestyle and values they claim to be embracing. Like, you want to grow your own cabbage and can't have someone else helping read to your child, but depending on society to facilitate this class-based society in which some people spend more on a dog for one hour, than other people spend on food per person per week (it's as much as we spend on each person's food each week), that does not make sense. You are benefiting from civilization, you are totally, 100% tied to it in that case. You are inextricably linked with the complex systems we have developed over thousands of years to create wealth and comfort for some groups of people, but which we do not share with everyone. It's not just that you need civilization. You also need a leisure class which usually correlates with inequality.

 

Because as much as we all claim to love our animals, I'm sorry, I've seen civilizations fall apart, and the first things to go are the pets. Who needs another mouth to feed? I will NEVER forget the roaming packs of wild dogs in Russia after their crash.

 

But these people claim to want to "get off the grid" and "make it on their own". I mean, I am not suggesting she actually leave grooming for the great pleasure of tending cows because I'd hate to see the cows suffer the same fate as the rest of the family, but that's my point.

[mamaraby]

Well, and $60 is for my two-ish year old Golden. It's going to be less for smaller dogs, more if there are mats or whatever. It's not like it's necessarily a guaranteed income, but it could be decent.

 

And no, I would not want this family to be raising cows.

[LucyStoner]

Okay, well, fair enough... $60 / hour sounds pretty decent. I still don't think it's compatible with the lifestyle and values they claim to be embracing. Like, you want to grow your own cabbage and can't have someone else helping read to your child, but depending on society to facilitate this class-based society in which some people spend more on a dog for one hour, than other people spend on food per person per week (it's as much as we spend on each person's food each week), that does not make sense. You are benefiting from civilization, you are totally, 100% tied to it in that case. You are inextricably linked with the complex systems we have developed over thousands of years to create wealth and comfort for some groups of people, but which we do not share with everyone. It's not just that you need civilization. You also need a leisure class which usually correlates with inequality.

 

Because as much as we all claim to love our animals, I'm sorry, I've seen civilizations fall apart, and the first things to go are the pets. Who needs another mouth to feed? I will NEVER forget the roaming packs of wild dogs in Russia after their crash.

 

But these people claim to want to "get off the grid" and "make it on their own". I mean, I am not suggesting she actually leave grooming for the great pleasure of tending cows because I'd hate to see the cows suffer the same fate as the rest of the family, but that's my point.

Most of the people I have seen make it "off grid" are starting with money earned in population centers. Many have one parent commuting very far at least part of the time to work at any number of jobs.

 

I would think though that where she lives a mobile grooming business or setting up a shop in town would be more reasonable than expecting customers to come to her 27 acres halfway between nowhere and not anywhere.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Living off the grid does not necessarily mean turning your back on all of modern society.  Some people just have a romantic notion of a more simple life.  And it can be very nice.  But it also takes a lot of hard work and a certain amount of luck.  My brother's dream homestead crumbled (literally) when it burned to the ground.  They did not have the means to start again at that point with young children and knowing that they were responsible for them, left that dream and moved into town where work was as well as ready made shelter and grocery stores.  

[idnib]

Whose only funding project thus far is the grooming business. I wonder who is behind Capistan?

 

I don't know. It's being hosted by GoDaddy (yuck) and was registered through Domains by Proxy (Scottsdale AZ)  and has a private registrant name. It was created 1/23/15.

[Slartibartfast]

I don't know. It's being hosted by GoDaddy (yuck) and was registered through Domains by Proxy (Scottsdale AZ)  and has a private registrant name. It was created 1/23/15.

 

Yeah...that's who I want to give my credit card information.

[Mimm]

I feel I'm being misunderstood.

 

I am not saying it's not a good business, or that there's something wrong with it, or that it's all froufrou. I don't have any issues with dog grooming as a health-related field or as a froufrou business. On the contrary I'm thrilled that people take care of their animals and that people are making money this way. Great.

 

I am saying it's incompatible with the Naugler's supposed values and the way of life they claim to want.

 

I get when you're saying and I agree. I kind of laughed when I first saw that she was a dog groomer. And I don't  AT ALL mean that in a disparaging way toward dog groomers. I have a shih tzu and this thread has actually reminded me to make his appointment with his groomer. ;) But I don't live in a shack and I like frou frou things like dog grooming, starbucks coffee, air conditioning and running water. ;)

[Word Nerd]

I don't know. It's being hosted by GoDaddy (yuck) and was registered through Domains by Proxy (Scottsdale AZ)  and has a private registrant name. It was created 1/23/15.

 

I looked it up before posting. That's why I wonder. ;)

[LucyStoner]

Yeah...that's who I want to give my credit card information.

No, that's totally who you want to transfer bitcoins to and then trust that you will be paid back your "guaranteed ten percent return" in bitcoin. Trusting that when you convert them, bitcoins will be convertible or have maintained the same value as when you bought them. What could possibly go wrong with this?!

 

I wonder how much money has really been raised there. It seems unlikely that every pledge will be paid.

 

Honestly, if I cared more I'd pledge so that I could report them for fraud when my 10 percent return doesn't arrive.

[Orthodox6]

What the woman's job is may be of less importance than whether she files and pays her self-employment taxes.

[Okra]

I'm curious as to what is happening with the kids.....

[Forget-Me-Not]

The news article indicated that the family is sitting on a 27 acre lot. If they sold 26 acres, they'd probably have a little more money.

There are a lot of legalities involved in subdividing property, at least in my state.

[idnib]

No, that's totally who you want to transfer bitcoins to and then trust that you will be paid back your "guaranteed ten percent return" in bitcoin. Trusting that when you convert them, bitcoins will be convertible or have maintained the same value as when you bought them. What could possibly go wrong with this?!

 

I wonder how much money has really been raised there. It seems unlikely that every pledge will be paid.

 

Honestly, if I cared more I'd pledge so that I could report them for fraud when my 10 percent return doesn't arrive.

 

Yep, I was tempted to send a dollar and see what happens but I don't want to get caught up in the IRS net when it inevitably comes down. 

 

I like bitcoins but I agree it is seriously deficient (read: cagey) of them not to mention the bitcoins change in value. 

[Tsuga]

Living off the grid does not necessarily mean turning your back on all of modern society.  Some people just have a romantic notion of a more simple life.  And it can be very nice.  But it also takes a lot of hard work and a certain amount of luck.  My brother's dream homestead crumbled (literally) when it burned to the ground.  They did not have the means to start again at that point with young children and knowing that they were responsible for them, left that dream and moved into town where work was as well as ready made shelter and grocery stores.  

 

Hm. I think I have one idea about homesteading and living simply, but "off the grid" to me means something totally different--it means getting off the information, electricity, and other "grids" that keep everything flowing in a modern society.

 

But that's a semantic point. I hear what you are saying and clearly they have a different idea of being "off the grid" than I do.

 

Re: Taxes, lol, I wonder. If you make below a certain amount you don't have to report. 

[LucyStoner]

Hm. I think I have one idea about homesteading and living simply, but "off the grid" to me means something totally different--it means getting off the information, electricity, and other "grids" that keep everything flowing in a modern society.

 

But that's a semantic point. I hear what you are saying and clearly they have a different idea of being "off the grid" than I do.

 

Re: Taxes, lol, I wonder. If you make below a certain amount you don't have to report.

Most people living very simply in rural areas still need things they can't grow or make. Trading only gets you so far. They still have to make money unless they started with a lot in the bank or they have some fixed guaranteed income. I know a family who come to town (requiring a private boat ride, a car they keep parked on shore and then a state ferry boat ride) for orthodontia. They can't pay the dentist in vegetables. Even if they have very low expenses, the county is not going to take their property tax bill in bags of wool.

 

ETA- your concept of off grid is not factoring in that rural families have been "coming to market" thousands of years.