Jump to content

Menu

Have you all followed the Naugler family?


DawnM
 Share

Recommended Posts

I recall he wrote about his stepmother, who took one look at their primitive living conditions and made his father finish the house. She brought furniture, bedding, and an excellent work ethic toward cleanliness. Lincoln remembered his "angel mother," who died, and his father with great affection but he gave the credit for his upbringing to his stepmother. That time after his mother died, when they lived in squalor and neglect, was sad and horrible. She rescued them.

 

Also, he wasn't really homeschooled. He studied as he could but that's not the same thing. Although there are scores of hs'ers using the same method with their kids today: "If you can find some books or have an interest in something I'll try to help if I'm available.But remember, your chores come first." :(

 

I'll try to remember where I read all this and update later. Bethben, I know you know these things and are a responsible hs'er but I'm adding this post for others reading along.

 

 

I know---I'm being snarky....Let's all talk about a Thomas Jefferson education now and derail this posting...(Please don't - still being snarky).

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you read the D'Aulaire books, Lincoln spent part of his growing up years in a 3 sided cabin in Kentucky (I think that's where the 3 sided cabin in his life was) and was homeschooled.  He obviously did well.  Maybe that's what they're going for.

 

so- that was what, 190 years ago?

I'm sure he also had an outhouse away from dwellings and the animals were penned with their own shelter - away from human habitation so that there wouldn't be any contamination.  and clean water, and proper food storage. and wood available to use for heat.  none of which this family has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Living is squalor is highly correlated with depression. We don't know if she is depressed, or what kind of problems she has but they are indeed, problems.

 

There is an intrinsic revulsion we have to living squalor. I think it's natural to not want to live in garbage, mold, feces. It's a healthy reaction to go, "Blech!" That is why, IMO, if a person or family doesn't go, "Blech!" I tend to think they have a problem, most likely a mental illness.

 

Thank God the kids are not there so maybe the mom can get to the root of her issues and begin to heal her family.

 

considering the rumors that joe is abusive, that the kids are afraid of him - his own son has testified in court that he is abusive - she could also be dealing with abused spouse syndrome as emotional, psychological abuse will make one depressed, demotivated, and dysfunctional.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the cooler is their only fridge. I have no idea how that even works.

 

 

 

 

We bought a cabin in the mountains in November of 2013.

It did not include a fridge, washer, or drier.

We used a big cooler for a fridge for about 4 months.

It was a real pain.

 

We would load it with frozen food and drive up there, just like when we were car camping.  The frozen food would thaw very gradually, and we would buy ice, get buckets of snow, or buy dry ice to continue to maintain the cool temperatures beyond that.  Also we kept it in the garage, which was the coldest part of the cabin.  This meant that we had to buy new ice or get new snow about every 4 days.  Dry ice is far colder and lasts longer, but it also is so cold that it freezes things we didn't want frozen, like milk for instance.  We really couldn't afford to buy a fridge at that point.

 

In late January we bought a dented, black, returned, new fridge to put in the basement.  Hey, at least it's electric!  IIRC it cost $200, and included free delivery.  It's noisy but it's in the basement.  Ultimately we plan to use it as an overflow/storage fridge.  We can't put one into the kitchen until we finish some tricky plumbing projects, so we are now a year and a half into running up and down the stairs every time we need something from the fridge.  That's a small price to pay, and it's just fine.

 

But.  We had a base camp (home) to get frozen food from.  We never had more than 4-5 people to feed.  We never didn't have enough money for groceries.  It was like camping, but in a house with a toilet and shower inside.  It was wonderful, temporary, and never dangerous. We were never tempted not to keep our food cold to save money on ice.  We never thought this was permanent.  That's how a cooler can work as a refrigeration system. Not like this family.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I listened to the recording of this woman's interaction with the Sheriff and immediately felt she had caused her own children to be taken from her.

 

When you imply to the sheriff that you may use weapons to defend your children and your husband has already been accused of "telling the son to get the gun from the glove compartment" when you are trying to steal water from the neighbor, what do you expect the sheriff to do!

 

 

This family needs help, and I don't mean financial help. It appears they have had that and thrown it away. I feel awful for these kids.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you.  I have not yet read anything that hints at mental illness.  Even if ADHD accounts for the incredible sloppiness and slovenliness, that is not a mental illness. 

 

My personal suspicion WAS spousal abuse with a mother so terrified that she allows anything rather than cross her husband.  Now I don't know.  When the authorities intervened, that was her golden opportunity to shout for help.  She did not do so.

 

I'm reduced to positing that these simply are poster parents for nightmare parenting.

 

 

with DV - that's not all that uncommon.  it's very common for the abused spouse to defend their abuser.  it's a very sick and twisted relationship.  given what has been said by the number of people who have claimed to have been threatened by him, his son testifying in court to being abused by him, the police report he was arrested for threatening a neighbor - on the neighbors own land! - when he was caught stealing water . . .. . it's highly likely Nicole is being abused too.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is mind boggling.

It is disgusting that people would give money so those idiots can keep their children living like/with filthy animals just to make a point. How do those people sleep at night??

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OMG, I just listened to the audio of Joe telling their younger 8 kids that Nicole had been arrested and that the two older kids (who were in the car with Nicole) were taken into custody.

 

He told the other 8 children that their siblings had been kidnapped and that they would be kidnapped by the state the next day.

 

Then he ordered them not to say anything about the way they live and not to consent or agree to anything while they were in state custody.

 

Can you imagine how terrified those kids must have been?   :sad:

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is disgusting that people would give money so those idiots can keep their children living like/with filthy animals just to make a point. How do those people sleep at night??

Those poor animals shouldn't be living in filth, either.

 

Given the opportunity, most animals are actually pretty clean and tidy.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Off the grid" to me means sustainable living, no electricity, well water, etc.  Does "off the grid" also refer to the anti establishment bs that's going on here? I would love to be "off the grid" in the environmental sense.  But I'm seriously confused why you wouldn't want a birth certificate or SSN?

 

 

In any event, I hadn't heard of these people, and I think I was better off before I did.

 

ETA: I didn't realize how long this thread was when I responded, I obviously didn't read it all!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those poor animals shouldn't be living in filth, either.

 

Given the opportunity, most animals are actually pretty clean and tidy.

Huh? The welfare of the animals isn't on my radar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not? You don't have to choose between the people or the animals. You can be concerned about both.

I suppose but I don't care about the animals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The kids should not be living there. Absolutely not. They should not go back there until there is safe housing and safe water. I'd rather they not go back there at all, and hope the family somehow gets the message that their situation there is untenable.

 

You can't put a pregnant mother in jail for not agreeing with how she lives. What laws is she breaking in regard to her pregnancy? What prenatal care is legally required? There is no pregnancy police, AFAIK.

 

Jailing the wife does seem extreme.  At least her youngest child, and maybe more, have been unassisted home deliveries, according to her blog, though I think they weren't living on their homestead at the time. Presumably she wants to do this with her current pregnancy, and presumably at the homestead.  If you don't think you can jail her, but you do think the children should be taken away, what to do about the baby?  What if she insists on an unattended home delivery at the homestead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jailing the wife does seem extreme. At least her youngest child, and maybe more, have been unassisted home deliveries, according to her blog, though I think they weren't living on their homestead at the time. Presumably she wants to do this with her current pregnancy, and presumably at the homestead. If you don't think you can jail her, but you do think the children should be taken away, what to do about the baby? What if she insists on an unattended home delivery at the homestead?

Interesting. Is there a law against giving birth in filth? I know they could take the child as soon as it is born but I'm guessing that is it??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is, perhaps, a spinoff, but I'm not familiar with the foster parent/foster child relationship...

 

Are the foster parents "allowed" to speak some truth into these kids' lives when they are in their custody?  Are they allowed to get these kids into counseling so the kids can finally understand how messed up their lives are and how wackadoodle their parents are?  Is that allowed, or are the foster parents prohibited from speaking against/alienating the kids from their bio parents?  How's that work?

 

Great questions!  Also, are the foster parents allowed to get the kids tetanus and other shots?  Birth certificates?  SSNs?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Off the grid" to me means sustainable living, no electricity, well water, etc.  Does "off the grid" also refer to the anti establishment bs that's going on here? I would love to be "off the grid" in the environmental sense.  But I'm seriously confused why you wouldn't want a birth certificate or SSN?

 

 

In any event, I hadn't heard of these people, and I think I was better off before I did.

 

ETA: I didn't realize how long this thread was when I responded, I obviously didn't read it all!

I think they have confused "off the grid" with "off the radar". Off the radar is what they seem to desire.

 

Personally, while I think that legal adults should probably have the right to "off the radar" so long as they take care of themselves and do not suddenly ask the radar, ie. taxpayer, for help,  minors need to be protected from the reprocussions of their parents choices to be off radar one of which is that without birth certificates and social security numbers, they are in eligible for driver's licenses, state ID's, military service, college or trade school financial aid, voting rights, and car insurance which is, if memory serves, mandated by every state in the union. They will literally be unemployable except for unscrupulous employers that pay cash under the table and that's not a good way to live.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I don't understand is why they aren't using so much of their land. So much of sanitation-especially field sanitation-relies on physical space and placement. They have 27 acres-which is a LOT!- but only appear to be using maybe half an acre. 

 

We have a small, town lot. My compost pile-without manure- is at the farthest back corner of our lot. My outdoor kitchen-which is a similar set up ton theirs-is in the far center of our lot. Kitchen trash goes out to the pile immediately, where it is covered with dry plant matter or existing compost to prevent pests. 
No food should be stored in the outdoor kitchen AT ALL. They should have indoor food storage. A root cellar, for goodness sake.
The kitchen should NOT be under cover. It needs sunlight for sanitation and open air for ventilation. Who dumps the ash so close to the fire? That's just dirty!
There is a wood stove inside the shed for inclement weather. The washing area should also not be in the cooking area. Where is thier grey water system? All they need is a 5 gallon bucket under the sink. 
The animals should be penned downhill of the pond-not that I would use pond water for anything other than fishing. Yikes. 

 

Ya'll. I'm not even a very experienced homesteader. We are looking at more rural properties-some off the grid- with the intention of being self-sufficient. We will have shelter,solar power, water, septic, grey water irrigation . These people. They are doing EVERYTHING so badly. I just don't understand. 

Don't get me wrong, this stuff is hard. It's a lot of work. It's a PITA to tend the compost 4 times a day. It's a lot of work to haul water and carry ash, and gather wood and scoop poop. It's not for everyone. But ya know, it's not like they don't enough space to spread all of this stuff out. I'm sure the kids would be more than willing to haul compost if it means a big garden full of delicious, nourishing veggies. I'm sure they would be happy to haul clean water to drink. And to tend animals if it means having a clean shelter. 

Ugh. I'm just so frustrated. Being rural is so lovely. And being off-grid is NOT crazy. It is romantic. lighting oil lamps and candles, and playing in a field of wildflowers eating wild berries is idyllic. It does not entail filth and grime, malnutrition and living in a hovel. It doesn't have to be this way. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I will also say this...

 

This thread has kept me entertained for the last few days... and given me an uncanny desire to clean my bathrooms... three or four times over...

:smilielol5:  :smilielol5: :smilielol5: Last night I swept the corners of the bathroom and did a quick toilet disinfection. I thought about them. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is, perhaps, a spinoff, but I'm not familiar with the foster parent/foster child relationship...

 

Are the foster parents "allowed" to speak some truth into these kids' lives when they are in their custody?  Are they allowed to get these kids into counseling so the kids can finally understand how messed up their lives are and how wackadoodle their parents are?  Is that allowed, or are the foster parents prohibited from speaking against/alienating the kids from their bio parents?  How's that work?

 

We have never foster parented in KY so our experiences may not be completely relevant [because state laws and regulations do guide much policy], but generally in our area counseling/evaluation are part of the foster care package.  I will also say that in general foster parents are encouraged not to speak unkindly about the children's biological parents to them.  There are many reasons for this and I think it is important to understand that even horribly abused children may still have some connection and bond to their abusive biological parents. When we have adopted through the foster care system we have always viewed our family as their second chance family, because, truly in an ideal world the parents who created them would also be the parents who were capable of raising them in a safe, loving, and nurturing home.  Unfortunately that doesn't always happen and I think that is where adoption can be a great thing but I think that as adoptive parents we have to understand that as much as these children really are a blessing to us, and as much as we really are doing our best for them, that their adoption may evoke feelings of loss (of their original biological family).  I think we need to be understanding and compassionate about that and only by doing that will we really become their parents.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Putting the pregnant mom in jail for better nutrition for her unborn baby?

 

No, just no.

 

If they don't have adequate housing for a newborn, then she probably will lose custody of the new baby. But the new baby might be the first stepping stone to her getting help, counseling, maybe meds if needed...

 

I'd much rather have her be receiving services and have a safe place to go with the new baby than have the baby automatically removed at birth.

Jailing the wife does seem extreme. At least her youngest child, and maybe more, have been unassisted home deliveries, according to her blog, though I think they weren't living on their homestead at the time. Presumably she wants to do this with her current pregnancy, and presumably at the homestead. If you don't think you can jail her, but you do think the children should be taken away, what to do about the baby? What if she insists on an unattended home delivery at the homestead?

I quoted myself so you can see what I wrote the first time FaithManor wanted her jailed for better prenatal nutrition.

 

"If you don't think you can jail her" is such an odd thing Way to phrase it. Jail her bc she is pregnant and take her baby away FOREVER (which is what Faith wrote and what many people "liked")? She hasn't done anything to this baby.

 

Really, what do the Maternity Police want to charge her with?

 

Is unassisted home delivery illegal where she lives?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's my understanding (and I could be wrong), but I thought that foster children were automatically put on Medicaid, and the foster parents can do whatever medical care they deem necessary for the child...???  Is that not so?

 

I have no idea about the birth certificates and SSNs.

This varies from state to state. Yes, the children automatically get health benefits. However, if the goal is reunification, then except for emergency needs, the bios may still retain some control over decisions. So if they have a religious objection to vaccines, it could be tricky. It is likely however that Kentucky state guidelines for foster care are that the children will at least get tetanus no matter what because of its truly deadly nature. It is possible that Kentucky may allow for more forced vaccines. It is hard to say. In Michigan, as a general rule, foster parents are usually charged with getting the kids up to date on anything that is pretty old stand by. They don't have to make them get Gardisil, but if there is any chance of sexual abuse will definitely receive Hep, Generally polio, chicken pox, MMR, Dtap, and Hib are going to be on the docket. If memory serves, the children have to receive a check up with a GP or pediatrician within so many days of intake as well.

 

That said, I've known people who have done foster care who had to ask permission of the bios just to get the kids haircuts and this was for girls with very long hair, and terrible lice infestations so the doctors were making medical cases for hair cuts. Nope...bios didn't want their daughters' hair cut and since reunification was the goal, foster mom had to figure out how the heck to deal with it.

 

It is a crazy, crazy system.

 

I do think, given the fact that the children may have parasites, may been exposed to a lot of disease, and could be quite malnourished, that the fosters may given a fair amount of leeway. Again though, it's a state to state thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's kind of a *itchy thing to say.

Call it whatever you like. I simply meant that it is obvious by your posts, both here and in your "Ugh. Should we consider a dog" thread, that you are clearly not an animal lover. Based on your comments, you seem to almost despise animals, and because of that, I don't think you should become a pet owner.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I listened to the audio of the dad speaking to the 8 kids.  What stands out to me is there is no reaction from the kids when he says they will be "kidnapped" by the state and won't be living with the parents.

 

This is just a fling of wild speculation, but I'm guessing the reasons for this are

 

A. they've heard their parents' crazy talk on a daily basis and wouldn't be the least surprised by gov't kidnapping, zombies, Russian invaders, or aliens, and/or

B. they're all breathing a scared but real sigh of relief and are therefore speechless.

 

I am so sorry for these kids.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I quoted myself so you can see what I wrote the first time FaithManor wanted her jailed for better prenatal nutrition.

 

"If you don't think you can jail her" is such an odd thing Way to phrase it. Jail her bc she is pregnant and take her baby away FOREVER (which is what Faith wrote and what many people "liked")? She hasn't done anything to this baby.

 

Really, what do the Maternity Police want to charge her with?

 

Is unassisted home delivery illegal where she lives?

 

If the other children have been removed due to severe neglect, then yes, the next baby should be immediately removed. 

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's my understanding (and I could be wrong), but I thought that foster children were automatically put on Medicaid, and the foster parents can do whatever medical care they deem necessary for the child...???  Is that not so?

 

I have no idea about the birth certificates and SSNs.

 

As I responded to your other post, much of this does vary from state to state, from county to county within the same state, and to an extent on the situation and type of placement.  We have largely taken treatment/medically fragile/ and emergency (often medically fragile as well) placements.  Through this program, in our state, and especially in our county, it is not uncommon for judges to give foster parents guardianship in these situations.  Because we have guardianship, my husband or I can sign as readily for DFD6's medical care as we can for our two younger biological daughters DD5 and DD2.  I do need to keep the caseworker apprised of what we are doing and I suspect there is some oversight (although we've never really had anyone question our choices) that is not there with our younger daughters. In our state, if we did not have guardianship, it is my impression that the caseworker would actually need to be authorizing most medical care.

 

As far as Medicaid, our state insurance regulations recently changed allowing us to not consider Medicaid primary for our foster daughters.  In the past although they were also covered on the insurance that DH covers the entire family with and the insurance that my employer provides our family their Medicaid was still considered primary and that was just cumbersome.  Now we can still use their Medicaid if we choose to but don't need to jump through hoops where we end up ultimately paying out of pocket because Medicaid won't pay (or the only pediatric nephrologist in the area won't take Medicaid) and DH's insurance doesn't feel they should pay because Medicaid is primary and won't pay. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those poor animals shouldn't be living in filth, either.

 

Given the opportunity, most animals are actually pretty clean and tidy.

 

Are they living in filth, though? I know nothing about goats, but having raised chickens and given how tiny their space is, I assumed that the chickens were roosting outside. While that leaves them open to predators, given that their shack isn't predator proof anyway, I don't think it makes much a distance, and in fact, depending on the breed, they might be more safe, since they will roost higher up. Is this ideal chicken raising, no? But not everyone sees them as pets, like I do. So, as much as I love chickens, I didn't really think to worry about them. They certainly seem to have a much nicer life than most factory farmed animals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is, perhaps, a spinoff, but I'm not familiar with the foster parent/foster child relationship...

 

Are the foster parents "allowed" to speak some truth into these kids' lives when they are in their custody?  Are they allowed to get these kids into counseling so the kids can finally understand how messed up their lives are and how wackadoodle their parents are?  Is that allowed, or are the foster parents prohibited from speaking against/alienating the kids from their bio parents?  How's that work?

As foster parents in Michigan I can tell you how it works here.

 

The kids will get Medicaid right away.  Most likely a physical and blood work within 24 hours.  Immunizations that are standard will be given........often fast than I like to get the older ones caught up......but they will get the tetanus for sure.  Given their situation, I would think that blood work for lead, anemia, vitamin levels, etc. would be done as well.  Also likely a parasite check and lice check.  If there is a strong indication of s*xually abuse then they would be evaluated for that by specially trained doctors/counselors/nurses, etc.

 

Counseling is set up ASAP as well....usually in the first 1-2 weeks.  Honestly though, coming from where they did there is likely going to be one of 2 reactions.  Either the kids will talk and talk and talk and let everyone know exactly what was going on OR they will be silent and not speak at all about home/food/water/abuse if any, etc.  Kids that have been threatened and told not to talk often will deny ANY abuse/neglect, etc. even when the evidence is glaring to the contrary.

 

Usually with in the first few days or week the kids will be enrolled in school.  For these kids it might include some testing to see what education they have had and what level they are working at.  I would assume there would be some sort of summer school for the olders.  The youngers might qualify for an educational preschool even over the summer.

 

I can only imagine how overwhelmed the foster parents might be.  I don't know how many of them are together, in what combination, etc. but this is MAJOR culture shock for the kids plus the stress of being apart from their siblings (and even their parents no matter how terrible it was.......it was what they knew).

 

As to the baby, in Michigan the baby would be removed at birth if the other kids are still in care.  The trick though is to find the baby.  Often they give birth out of state, at home, false name, etc.  This is very high profile though so other hospitals I am sure would be on the lookout for her but she might give birth at home.

 

Hopefully the mom can get some proper prenatal care, vitamins, nutritious food, etc.

 

Parents in Michigan are given a lawyer if they can't afford one.  They are offered (and often required) to attend parenting classes, counseling, mental health screenings, etc.  IF the parents want help there are LOTS of resources available (at least in MI) BUT the parents have to want them and cooperate with them.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/joe-nauglers-oldest-son-alleges-physical-sexual-abuse-children-not-returned/comment-page-1/#comment-22055

 

Interesting post in the comments from someone who knew the mom before she met Joe.

Spoiler alert: sounds like the guesses about drugs, mental health issues, and codependency were spot on.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are they living in filth, though? I know nothing about goats, but having raised chickens and given how tiny their space is, I assumed that the chickens were roosting outside. While that leaves them open to predators, given that their shack isn't predator proof anyway, I don't think it makes much a distance, and in fact, depending on the breed, they might be more safe, since they will roost higher up. Is this ideal chicken raising, no? But not everyone sees them as pets, like I do. So, as much as I love chickens, I didn't really think to worry about them. They certainly seem to have a much nicer life than most factory farmed animals. 

 

 

Based on the pics, everyone on that property was living in filth.  That isn't just mud in those pics - it is pretty much poo soup.

 

Also, some bloggers have been doing some digging.  They don't own the land and it is currently for sale.  It wouldn't surprise me if they were squatting.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mother can be charged with reckless endangerment and neglect which can in many states result in jail terms. Some states allow for forced rehab or jail time for women who are pregnant and found addicted to illegal drugs. I have no idea if Kentucky has that one on the books or not. If found guilty of the charges, it is possible for the state to do something on behalf of the child. In most states unassisted birth is perfectly okay, it would have to be, I mean I've known women who birthed in cars on the way to the hospital without anyone around! I would not be in favor of any kind of law about that.

 

We have friends that adopted a boy who was taken away at birth after his mother had been incarcerated during her pregnancy for extreme neglect of his older siblings. He is the only one without severe fetal drug exposure.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call it whatever you like. I simply meant that it is obvious by your posts, both here and in your "Ugh. Should we consider a dog" thread, that you are clearly not an animal lover. Based on your comments, you seem to almost despise animals, and because of that, I don't think you should become a pet owner.

I promise to give your opinion the weight it deserves as we make our decision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

with DV - that's not all that uncommon.  it's very common for the abused spouse to defend their abuser.  it's a very sick and twisted relationship.  given what has been said by the number of people who have claimed to have been threatened by him, his son testifying in court to being abused by him, the police report he was arrested for threatening a neighbor - on the neighbors own land! - when he was caught stealing water . . .. . it's highly likely Nicole is being abused too.

 

That is how I was reasoning, and could revert to that thinking.  DV victims whom I have known, though, sometimes do gratefully seize the life buoy when it lands around the neck. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they have confused "off the grid" with "off the radar". Off the radar is what they seem to desire.

 

Personally, while I think that legal adults should probably have the right to "off the radar" so long as they take care of themselves and do not suddenly ask the radar, ie. taxpayer, for help,  minors need to be protected from the reprocussions of their parents choices to be off radar one of which is that without birth certificates and social security numbers, they are in eligible for driver's licenses, state ID's, military service, college or trade school financial aid, voting rights, and car insurance which is, if memory serves, mandated by every state in the union. They will literally be unemployable except for unscrupulous employers that pay cash under the table and that's not a good way to live.

 

Or maybe they confused "off the grid" with "off the deep end".

  • Like 13
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I keep thinking about that kitchen video. I saw one cooler. Was that their only form of refrigeration? If so, where did they get ice, or did they? 

 

Not a defense of them, per se, but I had some friends who were vegan who didn't use their refrigerator at all. I think they took it out and put in cabinets. They ate all plant products, and they were all fresh or dried, so they had no need. I'm thinking this is not the case for this family, but if your diet consists of very few animal products it would be doable.

 

It's my understanding (and I could be wrong), but I thought that foster children were automatically put on Medicaid, and the foster parents can do whatever medical care they deem necessary for the child...???  Is that not so?

 

I have no idea about the birth certificates and SSNs.

 

In Minnesota, you are required to get the biological parent's permission for quite a bit. General health screenings are mandatory, but beyond that there's a lot of red tape. 

 

As to the mental illness 'slurs' issue - having dealt with mental illness in my mother, understand that I mean zero disrespect when I suggest that it might be a cause of what's happening here. I don't think anyone else here is looking down on those who suffer from mental illness. I believe it's simply a possible explanation for what we're seeing, and one that makes us more sympathetic to their plight. 

 

Also, Moxie and Cat - cut it out. Let's not get the mods in here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The mother can be charged with reckless endangerment and neglect which can in many states result in jail terms. Some states allow for forced rehab or jail time for women who are pregnant and found addicted to illegal drugs. I have no idea if Kentucky has that one on the books or not. If found guilty of the charges, it is possible for the state to do something on behalf of the child. In most states unassisted birth is perfectly okay, it would have to be, I mean I've known women who birthed in cars on the way to the hospital without anyone around! I would not be in favor of any kind of law about that.

 

We have friends that adopted a boy who was taken away at birth after his mother had been incarcerated during her pregnancy for extreme neglect of his older siblings. He is the only one without severe fetal drug exposure.

We are talking about THIS MOTHER.

 

Reckless endangerment HOW? Neglect of her FETUS, HOW?

 

What has THIS MOTHER done to her fetus?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are talking about THIS MOTHER.

 

Reckless endangerment HOW? Neglect of her FETUS, HOW?

 

What has THIS MOTHER done to her fetus?

The thing is.......if the mother has a history of abuse/neglect of other children, chances are SUPER high that the same thing will happen to the next child, in this case her baby.......sadly, often with longterm or deadly consequences.

 

I am parenting a child that should have been removed at birth......ok, 2 of them.  The 3rd  one was.  The bio parents had a long term history of abuse and neglect and my children are now suffered the effects of things that could have been prevented.

 

As foster parents for over 100 kids, I have to agree with removing the baby at birth........UNLESS the mother gets SIGNIFICANT help and has a change in living environments between now and the birth of the baby.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unsinkable, we don't know.  My guess is that it is possible to worry about the mother ingesting foul water and unsafe food, considering the physical environment.  If she fails drug testing -- (don't know if that is on the table) -- that would indicate lack of care for the baby.  Also, if an unattended home birth is her plan, -- especially at that homesite -- concerns are reasonable.  I'm fine with home birth, but I expect an experienced midwife to be present.  (or a paramedic.  My son has delivered a baby since becoming a fireman.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...