Menu
Jump to content
ATTENTION: Forums search will not work until re-indexing is completed. Please follow these instructions for search
DawnM

Have you all followed the Naugler family?

Recommended Posts

Many people who claim to know this family have been posting they are thieves, scammers, and neglect their kids. That they have been moving from state to state after CPS gets called on them. The Father's rights to his oldest child were terminated in Texas.

 

 

I, personally, have no issues with living off the grid but I do have issues with children living without adequate shelter. Plus if you are having to steal water from a neighbor's land, then you are NOT living off the grid and not providing the basic necessities for your kids. They also apparently don't follow the he school laws in their state and don't register their births which is required by law in Kentucky within 10 days from what I read. I do think they are loving parents, but for the kid's sake, they at least need a fresh water source & shelter.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just reading up on it all over the web. 

 

I don't have all the info, obviously, but I think CPS was in the right.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd also like to point out that living "off the grid" does not mean living in squalor. When we were living in our RV, we meet a few off-the-grid families, and they were definitely not living in squalor. This family needs help, even if they don't realize it.

  • Like 27

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hadn't heard of them until now. I can't imagine living in what is essentially a lean-to in winter in KY.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious about what food they eat and how they store and prepare it. I didn't do much poking around on the blog, but I did see one post that indicated their garden failed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yikes. Those poor children. :( What a rough winter. Perhaps they spent a lot of it huddled around a fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a mutual acquaintance, so I've been following the story. That's about the only positive thing I can say. :-/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read very, very mixed things from different people who know the family personally.  I think it's possible to be off-grid and fully compliant with the law.  I think it's possible to take photos that make either side look right.  This situation looks sketchy enough that I'm glad it's being checked into and I sincerely hope that the powers that be figure out what is in the best interest of the children, whatever that is.

 

No matter what, this is *way* more than just a homeschooling issue.

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a legal requirement to get one's child a SSN if the family chooses not to claim them as dependents on taxes? I know most (all?) states do require births be registered but I thought SSN's are just for taxes and employment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish various homeschool groups would stop knee-jerk jumping to the defense of families like these. I know HSLDA and other prominent homeschool groups shared their gofundme early on. Hopefully everyone will back off and let CPS do their jobs in this case.

I want to like this one million times!!!!!
  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish various homeschool groups would stop knee-jerk jumping to the defense of families like these. I know HSLDA and other prominent homeschool groups shared their gofundme early on. Hopefully everyone will back off and let CPS do their jobs in this case.

Yes.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a legal requirement to get one's child a SSN if the family chooses not to claim them as dependents on taxes? I know most (all?) states do require births be registered but I thought SSN's are just for taxes and employment.

 

I'm not sure, but the blog article linked from HA has the mom herself saying that they don't have birth documentation either. That's just such a problem for these kids as adults. And gives the parents the power to manipulate their lives beyond age 18 if they refuse to attest to their births to let them decide to get SSN's so they can attend college or get jobs.

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish various homeschool groups would stop knee-jerk jumping to the defense of families like these. I know HSLDA and other prominent homeschool groups shared their gofundme early on. Hopefully everyone will back off and let CPS do their jobs in this case.

:iagree:

 

That is such an excellent point.

 

So often, we get upset when people stereotype homeschoolers as being crazy or unsocialized or religious fanatics, and it seems to be something upon which the media tends to focus when someone commits a crime and it turns out the family homeschools, as though if the kids were in ps, they would be little angels and would never have done such a thing.... but homeschoolers are just as wrong if we immediately and automatically leap to the defense of every homeschooling family that has been accused of wrongdoing, because we assume they must be innocent victims of a harsh legal system or the "evil media."

 

Homeschooling families are just people like everyone else. There are the good, the bad, and the complete wackadoodles.

  • Like 27

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "evil media" has yet to pick up this story. From what I can tell, it's only being reported by blogs and questionable (to put it mildly) outlets like InfoWars so far.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hadn't heard of them until this morning but I've been reading a bit.

 

There are a few problems I see and they seem to mostly be related to poverty, lack of education and some bad decision making. I sincerely hope the family is offered serious services before the children are removed. There are some things that others see that I don't see as a problem (like the composting toilet.) I don't think the kids are physically abused and they don't appear malnourished. The children do seem to be loved. I think the parents have very stringent ideas and it's difficult to make it all come together with 10 kids, homesteading, homeschooling, etc. I don't think they're bad or violent people, I just think they've lost perspective because they are too rigid about their ideals and the children may suffer due to that.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hadn't heard of them until this morning but I've been reading a bit.

 

There are a few problems I see and they seem to mostly be related to poverty, lack of education and some bad decision making. I sincerely hope the family is offered serious services before the children are removed. There are some things that others see that I don't see as a problem (like the composting toilet.) I don't think the kids are physically abused and they don't appear malnourished. The children do seem to be loved. I think the parents have very stringent ideas and it's difficult to make it all come together with 10 kids, homesteading, homeschooling, etc. I don't think they're bad or violent people, I just think they've lost perspective because they are too rigid about their ideals and the children may suffer due to that.

 

The father has a criminal record in several states. Part of what he's being accused of is threatening his neighbor (from whom he was stealing water) with guns, telling his little children to go fetch the gun from the car. Also, the mother threatened violence against the authorities when they came out to investigate. Also, the kids aren't being legally homeschooled and don't have birth certificates.

 

I know we'd like to believe all homeschooling and natural living families are like our own but I'm not seeing this loving, safe and calm vibe for this family. :(

 

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wish various homeschool groups would stop knee-jerk jumping to the defense of families like these. I know HSLDA and other prominent homeschool groups shared their gofundme early on. Hopefully everyone will back off and let CPS do their jobs in this case.

 

:hurray:  :hurray:  :hurray:

 

:iagree:  :iagree:  :iagree:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The father has a criminal record in several states. Part of what he's being accused of is threatening his neighbor (from whom he was stealing water) with guns, telling his little children to go fetch the gun from the car. Also, the mother threatened violence against the authorities when they came out to investigate. Also, the kids aren't being legally homeschooled and don't have birth certificates.

 

I know we'd like to believe all homeschooling and natural living families are like our own but I'm not seeing this loving, safe and calm vibe for this family. :(

 

 

I still think they should try services first. I'm not saying there are no problems. The criminal record contains nothing violent. He's passed bad checks, driven without registration, and has a failure to appear for a misdemeanor. Those could be anti-authoritarian but that could also be driven by poverty. I'd like the police and/or CPS to investigate the threats against the neighbor and the authorities. Kids not being legally homeschooled and not having birth certificates are something that could be solved through services.

 

There are a lot of things wrong here. I still think if the family is willing (and I'm not at all sure they are) services could work better than placing 10 kids into foster homes. Now if the family is unwilling, that's a different story. When faced with the threat of losing their children, or possibly losing them temporarily while they correct things, they may concede and I hope that's what happens and they meet the limit of the law.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "evil media" has yet to pick up this story. From what I can tell, it's only being reported by blogs and questionable (to put it mildly) outlets like InfoWars so far.

I hope the story continues to fly under the radar of the media.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The local news has already covered the story, including releasing a transcript of a recording in which the mother tells a deputy that he will have to kill her before he can "kidnap" her son (the one who was the witness to the alleged gun crime).  So, IMO this is not a case where the family is willing.   FWIW, the story barely mentions the schooling and does not refer to it as homeschooling.   As others have said, this is not a homeschooling case, this is a people behaving badly case. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy cow. They have a GoFundMe that has had more than $32,000 donated. 

 

Yeah, I saw a lot of comments on blogs saying people were sending money. I wonder how many of those people are sending money to help dig a well or build a better housing structure and improve their infrastructure in general, and how many are sending it for legal fees to they can "fight the man." It will be interesting to see how they decide to spend it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy cow. They have a GoFundMe that has had more than $32,000 donated.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

 

Did they start the GFM campaign or did someone else start it for them?

 

I only ask because they are supposedly so into the whole "self-sustaining" thing, and begging for money from others seems more than a little hypocritical.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This popped up on my FB page last night so I spent a while wondering around on the mother's Facebook page and listening to the audio she had up of the encounter with police.  I don't assume to know everything involved, but I certainly wouldn't rush to judge law enforcement or CPS on this one.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:eek: :eek: :eek:

 

Did they start the GFM campaign or did someone else start it for them?

 

I only ask because they are supposedly so into the whole "self-sustaining" thing, and begging for money from others seems more than a little hypocritical.

They started it. It isn't their first either. They raised funds to build her grooming shop too. She even states on their FB page that they barter for goods & ask for donations because the Dad only works part time as needed because he is a full time Dad. Their garden was a failure last year so they had to rely in others for food..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure, but the blog article linked from HA has the mom herself saying that they don't have birth documentation either. That's just such a problem for these kids as adults. And gives the parents the power to manipulate their lives beyond age 18 if they refuse to attest to their births to let them decide to get SSN's so they can attend college or get jobs.

 

seems like there was another case very recently - the kids births weren't registered and the parents had complete control over them becasue of it even after they became adults.  they "looked" more conventional, but were still doing things that were sketchy for their chidlrens welfare at best.  and the mom went whining when cps came looking after the daughter reported them.  oh, I think she took off to go live with the grandparents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They started it. It isn't their first either. They raised funds to build her grooming shop too. She even states on their FB page that they barter for goods & ask for donations because the Dad only works part time as needed because he is a full time Dad. Their garden was a failure last year so they had to rely in others for food..

Thanks. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I saw a lot of comments on blogs saying people were sending money. I wonder how many of those people are sending money to help dig a well or build a better housing structure and improve their infrastructure in general, and how many are sending it for legal fees to they can "fight the man." It will be interesting to see how they decide to spend it.

 

somehow, I doubt a penny of it will go to improving their infrastructure.  I bet all of it goes to legal fees "fighting the man".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

seems like there was another case very recently - the kids births weren't registered and the parents had complete control over them becasue of it even after they became adults.  they "looked" more conventional, but were still doing things that were sketchy for their chidlrens welfare at best.  and the mom went whining when cps came looking after the daughter reported them.  oh, I think she took off to go live with the grandparents.

 

Are you thinking of the Alecia Pennington story that was all over the Internet not long ago?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They started it. It isn't their first either. They raised funds to build her grooming shop too. She even states on their FB page that they barter for goods & ask for donations because the Dad only works part time as needed because he is a full time Dad. Their garden was a failure last year so they had to rely in others for food..

This is where the anti-government sentiment to the point they exercise it starts to answer me. Their kids are entitled to government assistance (SNAP/food stamps) they are refusing to seek. How is begging better?

 

I would rather see charity go to those who slip through the cracks because of the system's fault, not their own.

  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy cow. They have a GoFundMe that has had more than $32,000 donated. 

 

Yeah.  One of my FB friends (who does not homeschool, but is a bit anti-authority) shared it.  I suggested she do more research before donating or encouraging others to donate.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope the story continues to fly under the radar of the media.

 

 

So do I.  For people like me, who homeschool and live out on a farm in the boonies, this doesn't help the dirt-floor-dumb-country-bumpkin stereotype.  

 

I saw the pictures and I can guarantee you that if you picked any shelter on my farm it is better suited for human habitation than any structure they have.  I would even rather take my chances overwintering in the cattle shed than what they called a "cabin."  At least my cattle shed has a solid roof.

  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They started it. It isn't their first either. They raised funds to build her grooming shop too. She even states on their FB page that they barter for goods & ask for donations because the Dad only works part time as needed because he is a full time Dad. Their garden was a failure last year so they had to rely in others for food..

 

Full-time farming, I can understand and respect.  Farming is relentlessly hard work and often a financial debacle. 

 

Using only the available information, I don't categorize this family as "a farm family." 

 

Rather than ask for donations because I have chosen to work only part-time, I would be falling head-over-heels in a rush to add a second part-time job, or to secure a full-time job.  I realize that people vary in what they consider "self-respect".  My wish to respect myself and my efforts as a spouse and as a parent does not fit with what we are reading about with this family.

 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you thinking of the Alecia Pennington story that was all over the Internet not long ago?

 

yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why do some of these "off the grid" families blog about their lives so intensely? Alecya Pennington's mother also had a widely known blog. Is it because the off the grid thing isn't about privacy, just controlling the kids? Is it that it's such a difficult lifestyle to support and this is seen as a legitimate way to earn extra income? Is it because they're often evangelical and that goes with that - spreading the word? Is it because it's just a completely irrational thing to do so doing something that doesn't make any sense with it is just par for the course?

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why do some of these "off the grid" families blog about their lives so intensely? Alecya Pennington's mother also had a widely known blog. Is it because the off the grid thing isn't about privacy, just controlling the kids? Is it that it's such a difficult lifestyle to support and this is seen as a legitimate way to earn extra income? Is it because they're often evangelical and that goes with that - spreading the word? Is it because it's just a completely irrational thing to do so doing something that doesn't make any sense with it is just par for the course?

 

If I could only pick one reason specifically for the blogging, I would say income, either in the form of ad serving on the blog, referral links to products, or donations of money, goods, or services by supporters.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why do some of these "off the grid" families blog about their lives so intensely? Alecya Pennington's mother also had a widely known blog. Is it because the off the grid thing isn't about privacy, just controlling the kids? Is it that it's such a difficult lifestyle to support and this is seen as a legitimate way to earn extra income? Is it because they're often evangelical and that goes with that - spreading the word? Is it because it's just a completely irrational thing to do so doing something that doesn't make any sense with it is just par for the course?

 

So they can show what special snowflakes they are with the bonus of being able to beg for money as needed.

  • Like 21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So why do some of these "off the grid" families blog about their lives so intensely? Alecya Pennington's mother also had a widely known blog. Is it because the off the grid thing isn't about privacy, just controlling the kids? Is it that it's such a difficult lifestyle to support and this is seen as a legitimate way to earn extra income? Is it because they're often evangelical and that goes with that - spreading the word? Is it because it's just a completely irrational thing to do so doing something that doesn't make any sense with it is just par for the course?

I know only one off-grid family. The dad worked and saved for years to be able to afford to retire from his job and live off-grid -- and he now has a home business, as does the mom. For that family, it is an environmental/ecological choice and they take it very seriously.

 

But... they live in a small but "normal" semi-rural house and heat and cook using wood as fuel. They grow their own vegetables as much as possible and have chickens for eggs and... well... chicken. ;) They belong to a farm co-op for more food, but they also shop in stores for other necessities. They live very economically but are also very health conscious.

 

Education has always been a huge priority for them and their formerly homeschooled child is now in college.

 

I think they are an example of how to go off the grid successfully. This family felt very strongly about it but didn't do it until they knew they could provide financially for their family. They didn't just quit work and build a shack somewhere. They have things like reliable vehicles and health insurance.

 

Maybe they are more fortunate than many off-gridders, but I know how hard they worked to get there, so although their lifestyle holds no appeal to me, I respect them very much for having had a long term goal and finally reaching it.

 

The family in this thread could learn a lot from the family I know.

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My parents were poor farmers and our calves and chickens had better shelter than those children and I'm being 100% serious. CPS does need to step in and a bunch of prepped/homesteader/off-gridder types need to step up and say "That is not how it is done!!"

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a direct link to the blog post in the second source you posted. It certainly clarifies a lot, especially the photos of their home.

 

http://kathrynbrightbill.com/post/118481565656/here-are-7-surprising-things-you-need-to-know

 

 

Pardon, my cultural slip is showing. ;) But that is small bed space for 12 people to sleep. I would go out of my mind.

 

The preteen BO and stinky feet would have me running to the nearest solitary tent.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER & RECEIVE A COUPON FOR
10% OFF
We respect your privacy.You’ll hear about new products, special discounts & sales, and homeschooling tips. *Coupon only valid for first-time registrants. Coupon cannot be combined with any other offer. Entering your email address makes you eligible to receive future promotional emails.
0 Shares
Share
Tweet
Pin
×