Mergath Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am fascinated by people who may or may not be big supporters of welfare and the like taking such an, errr, conservative stand with this family. There are plenty of able-bodied lazy parents who don't work and draw welfare checks. No, there aren't. You either have to be actively looking for work or actually working to receive cash assistance, and the vast majority of people I've talked to who receive welfare are working their butts off but don't get paid enough to make ends meet. Plus, I've never met a welfare recipient with ten kids who made them live in what is essentially a garbage dump. 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Um. Yes. That's what you should have done. You have 10 kids. You have no money. You're sleeping in a van in the winter. Put the kids in school, get two or three or four jobs, cobble them together, save like there is no tomorrow and in 3 or 4 year you could have DONE. HOMESTEADING. RIGHT. And she's pregnant! Sleeping in the freezing van can't be healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 No, there aren't. You either have to be actively looking for work or actually working to receive cash assistance, and the vast majority of people I've talked to who receive welfare are working their butts off but don't get paid enough to make ends meet. Plus, I've never met a welfare recipient with ten kids who made them live in what is essentially a garbage dump. Exactly this! These people are fruity loops, and unfortunately, the children really should be taken away, and due to the number of them, they will not be able to be kept together. But, better separated and alive and well so they can resume relationships later, than dead, diseased, dying, badly injured, emotionally beaten down, living in constant fear, and unemployable as adults due to an inability to interact with society and total lack of basic skills and education. I just don't understand people who care so little for the well being of their children. Though I've never been a fan of forced sterilization, these people could put me over that "edge"! I actually think it would be wise for police to take the mom into custody and incarcerate her on child endangerment charges for the duration of the pregnancy because she would receive pre-natal care through the jail, and higher calorie and nutrition count plus have sanitation. This could provide a better outcome for the baby. Then the authorities probably should take the baby away at birth. Sad to say, she shouldn't be allowed to take the baby back there because it is nothing more than a diseased dump. Maybe if the they pull their acts together they could get the baby back, but to be honest, I suspect some mental illness, delusional type issues of both parents and the infant would probably be better off being adopted. Not a popular opinion for certain, but logically, the better plan for the little one. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughing lioness Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 No, there aren't. You either have to be actively looking for work or actually working to receive cash assistance, and the vast majority of people I've talked to who receive welfare are working their butts off but don't get paid enough to make ends meet. Plus, I've never met a welfare recipient with ten kids who made them live in what is essentially a garbage dump. Actually the welfare recipient we are related to doesn't work her butt off, is on year 8 of earning a 1 yr master's degrees, frequently spends her school "need" money on new computers and lives with her parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 To get "welfare checks" or TANF as it is officially called, you have to actively be searching for work and prove it and you are only allowed a lifetime maximum 60 of months. There is so much hoop jumping for TANF that many families who actually need it don't even try for it. SNAP and Medicaid are a bit easier to get, still a lot of hoop jumping. Neither are cash in hand though. The days of sitting back and letting the welfare cash roll in ended a while ago. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Actually the welfare recipient we are related to doesn't work her butt off, is on year 8 of earning a 1 yr master's degrees, frequently spends her school "need" money on new computers and lives with her parents. That would be illegal here if she's receiving cash assistance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 School assistance and welfare are not the same thing. At all. That type of ongoing welfare ended in the 90's. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Actually the welfare recipient we are related to doesn't work her butt off, is on year 8 of earning a 1 yr master's degrees, frequently spends her school "need" money on new computers and lives with her parents. If she is receiving TANF (the cash welfare check), she is capped at 60 months then she can't ever get TANF again. She is also hoop jumping, likely monthly, to keep it if she is indeed receiving cash. But maybe you are calling something else welfare that isn't? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I just don't understand people who care so little for the well being of their children. I really think there is some form of mental illness in the parents that they are incapable to adequately caring for their children. the parents are totally dysfunctional - and I doubt they'd function adequately in society even if it was just them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That's not how a composting toilet works. You just cover the hole when it's full and dig a new hole elsewhere near the garden, and plant over that one. It's a very good system and it doesn't smell that much. You don't clean it out. You dig anew. Or is this something else? I just googled. Good lord. I tell you, people have lost all sense. You can dig a hole for FREE without all that nonsense, and certainly no cleaning out required, for a proper direct to garden composting toilet. No. I have helped install a composting toilet system and I have used the compost from another. Planting over an outhouse is not a composting toilet. Also you usually want to spread the fully useable, clean compost out under your soil, not have a pit of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If she is receiving TANF (the cash welfare check), she is capped at 60 months then she can't ever get TANF again. She is also hoop jumping, likely monthly, to keep it if she is indeed receiving cash. But maybe you are calling something else welfare that isn't? Also TANF recipients can generally only be obtaining a technical certificate or Associates degree. I've raised a lot of grant money to cover the gap for people who are working to get their BA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Putting the pregnant mom in jail for better nutrition for her unborn baby? No, just no. If they don't have adequate housing for a newborn, then she probably will lose custody of the new baby. But the new baby might be the first stepping stone to her getting help, counseling, maybe meds if needed... I'd much rather have her be receiving services and have a safe place to go with the new baby than have the baby automatically removed at birth. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://yacity.blogspot.com/2015/05/12-reasons-you-shouldnt-listen-to.html?m=1 This one is pro the Nauglers. A FB friend posted it. Good grief. Even if I knew nothing else about this case and read that, I'd think it was a load of it. (It being, of course, toilet compost.) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good grief. Even if I knew nothing else about this case and read that, I'd think it was a load of it. (It being, of course, toilet compost.) I believe the word is "humanure". 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Good grief. Even if I knew nothing else about this case and read that, I'd think it was a load of it. (It being, of course, toilet compost.) My thoughts exactly. I was especially amused by how they were defending things they admit they have no seen themselves and only know Nicole through an on-line forum (which, as we all know, always includes only 100% honest and genuine people). I know more people than just the friend who posted the link who are defending them because, as we all also know, CPS is *always* wrong and will do anything to take a kid for any reason. And the government is evil. (I think I need to turn my snark down a few notches...) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ugh ugh ugh.......I just saw a news story with quotes from an attorney from HSLDA. I seriously can't believe they would touch this with a 10 ft pole. Which is exactly why I have not only refuse to buy a membership with them but actively tell others not to as well. Of course in local circles that is met by other homeschoolers convincing newbie homeschoolers they absolutely must sign on or child services will take you kids because you will have no way to stop it. Umm, how about don't abuse your kids and follow the laws as they relate to homeschooling and the land. Why sent money to fear mongering idiots who do more damage than good for the homeschooling community. Okay off soap box lol 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Which is exactly why I have not only refuse to buy a membership with them but actively tell others not to as well. Of course in local circles that is met by other homeschoolers convincing newbie homeschoolers they absolutely must sign on or child services will take you kids because you will have no way to stop it. Umm, how about don't abuse your kids and follow the laws as they relate to homeschooling and the land. Why sent money to fear mongering idiots who do more damage than good for the homeschooling community. Okay off soap box lol There used to be an "expose website" from people who (a) knew more about the inner workings of HSLDA and/or who (b) had been burned by the organization. Probably does not exist anymore, but it was an eye-opener when I read it years ago. My only direct interaction with the group was years ago when, in my state, gun-free zones were being implemented around schools in a major city. HSLDA leapt into histrionic activity and joined a lawsuit of a homeschooling father who wanted to protect his precious firearms. Only an intellectually-challenged interpreter of the proposed ordinances would waste time worrying about a non-accredited private school operating within a private residence. I wrote a letter of concern to HSLDA -- (I was concerned because I did not want their antics to provoke trouble for normal homeschoolers in the state.) -- and received only a letter of condescending drivel in response. Wish I still had it as "Exhibit A". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Here's the link to the story that the HSLDA is getting involved. http://www.christianpost.com/news/police-remove-10-christian-homeschool-kids-from-parents-custody-due-to-off-the-grid-self-sufficient-lifestyle-138990/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Here's the link to the story that the HSLDA is getting involved. http://www.christianpost.com/news/police-remove-10-christian-homeschool-kids-from-parents-custody-due-to-off-the-grid-self-sufficient-lifestyle-138990/ "Devout" Christians, eh? These folks have apparently been basically kicked out of their church. The mom admits to having lost her faith in that blog post. I have no problem with that. It's just... it feels like they're hiding behind a false screen of faith to get this support. Honestly, I think they'll say anything to fit anyone's agenda and get support. They're homeschoolers. Or they're unschoolers. They're Christian. Or not. They're nonviolent communication advocates. Who support gun rights. They're free rangers. They're parental rights advocates. They're rugged individualists. Who beg online. They're hard workers. Who don't work so they can be with their kids. I think they don't even know what they are. 42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://yacity.blogspot.com/2015/05/12-reasons-you-shouldnt-listen-to.html?m=1 This one is pro the Nauglers. A FB friend posted it. I actually did love the description of the schoolhouse and yard quoted from Laddie. Until about grade 4. Isn't there a criminal hearing for the mother today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 "Devout" Christians, eh? These folks have apparently been basically kicked out of their church. The mom admits to having lost her faith in that blog post. I have no problem with that. It's just... it feels like they're hiding behind a false screen of faith to get this support. Honestly, I think they'll say anything to fit anyone's agenda and get support. They're homeschoolers. Or they're unschoolers. They're Christian. Or not. They're nonviolent communication advocates. Who support gun rights. They're free rangers. They're parental rights advocates. They're rugged individualists. Who beg online. They're hard workers. Who don't work so they can be with their kids. I think they don't even know what they are. This is what they remind me of. Growing up, we had a family who came to our church. They needed so much and the church gave to them for a few years. Then some members with sense got fed up that the family never seemed to try to live on their own. When the hand outs stopped, they left. Later, the church found out this family was known at several churches in the area. They knew what churches helped out the best/most and became those religions/denominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/reality/ If I were her, I would take this down :( I mean at what point do you take your babies in a car to sleep for your ideals? Not because you have to but because you want to? Where was her dh? Read the comments from the article Orthodox6 linked. There is some alleged criminal activity on his part re a previous job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's hard to imagine they were able to clean the animal feces etc in one weekend. Who thinks all those animals in a living space is healthy? That's a lot of dogs, and I can't believe there are no dogs currently pregnant. And the goats & chickens in the living areas? Babies and toddlers crawling on the floors? If he managed to clean all that up, great. Just how is it possible in two days? The father just posted this statement. But of course, these are just his claims. CPS obviously cannot verify if they truly have not found fault in their situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 And, as far as I have seen, can't be bothered with jumping through the hoops to get food stamps, which they almost certainly qualify for. Except the children need birth certificates and ssn to qualify, and at least some of them don't. The ones with the needed info would be covered though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://yacity.blogspot.com/2015/05/12-reasons-you-shouldnt-listen-to.html?m=1 This one is pro the Nauglers. A FB friend posted it. Um. This person is apparently soooo close to the Nauglers (FB close, I mean) that she's not aware that they returned the pre-fab cabin and built themselves a... I don't even know what to call that three-walled thing. It's like an Adirondack shelter, except not actually sturdy. But what do I know? I'm just a "naysayer" who doesn't support the fundamental parental right to let your kids run around barefoot in goat shit. 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I really can't get over the part in that pro-Nauglers link I shared about them having had other interactions with CPS. The author of that post said that if you have a non-traditional lifestyle you *will* have CPS interactions AND she's had "several" friends investigated for nothing more than homeschooling. BS. I just don't buy it. Being investigated several times by CPS is a *big deal.* 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Here's the link to the story that the HSLDA is getting involved. http://www.christianpost.com/news/police-remove-10-christian-homeschool-kids-from-parents-custody-due-to-off-the-grid-self-sufficient-lifestyle-138990/ I'm still optimistic they'll not represent the family. So far, it's not on HSLDA's home page, and we haven't recieved an e-alert. If the allegations are true, then this is HSLDA's chance to strengthen our homeschool freedoms while protecting the children by refusing the case. If they want to "draw their line in the sand" ( see their website for the artcle ), then this could quite possibly be the case for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm still optimistic they'll not represent the family. So far, it's not on HSLDA's home page, and we haven't recieved an e-alert. If the allegations are true, then this is HSLDA's chance to strengthen our homeschool freedoms while protecting the children by refusing the case. If they want to "draw their line in the sand" ( see their website for the artcle ), then this could quite possibly be the case for it. One article I read had a quote from Mike Ferris Jr saying they are not defending them. They have a local attorney. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renai Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One article I read had a quote from Mike Ferris Jr saying they are not defending them. They have a local attorney. I first heard about the case on the HSLDA fb page a few days ago. They said nothing about defending them, and to be cautious as the case was under investigation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropymama Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://yacity.blogspot.com/2015/05/12-reasons-you-shouldnt-listen-to.html?m=1 This one is pro the Nauglers. A FB friend posted it. This is just ridiculous. The author admits not knowing them in person, just online, but understands the 'truth'. The people who do know them in person somehow don't know the 'truth' and are just vicious and mean because.. I don't even know. I also love the whole 'being arrested doesn't mean you're guilty!' line. No, but being arrested multiple times is certainly suspicious. School assistance and welfare are not the same thing. At all. That type of ongoing welfare ended in the 90's. Could it be unemployment? My BIL was on unemployment for a while. They lived with his parents and all he had to do was apply for two jobs per month. He knew he was getting a job down the line (6 months maybe?) and so he would apply for two jobs each month that he knew he wouldn't get so the money would keep coming in. I'm not really faulting him, just saying that sometimes you can get assistance without much effort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One article I read had a quote from Mike Ferris Jr saying they are not defending them. They have a local attorney. Don't you love how this allows HSLDA to both use the Nauglers to publicize and spread fear to their base - they're coming for your kids, be sure you have us on your side, etc. etc. - and also say to the critics that they're not really involved, as if they did draw a line in the sand. Blech. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Don't you love how this allows HSLDA to both use the Nauglers to publicize and spread fear to their base - they're coming for your kids, be sure you have us on your side, etc. etc. - and also say to the critics that they're not really involved, as if they did draw a line in the sand. Blech.I know. I can't stand the organization. Same article he talks about how people shouldn't be charged for living differently. He speaks both sides of donkey. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Now this was posted about a year ago, but it answers the water questions and the laundry questions: http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/tiny-grid-cabin-qa/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanitaL Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 But what do I know? I'm just a "naysayer" who doesn't support the fundamental parental right to let your kids run around barefoot in goat shit. :smilielol5: This may have become one of my favorite threads ever. (The comments and opportunity for self-education .... not the situation itself.) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Took me a while, and much cursing, but I got through the thread and posted links. Folks, I'm pretty good with words, but this one leaves me speechless. Or, at least, unable to form a coherent sentance without useage of words that would get me in trouble with mods. Wolf and I have long dreamed of going 'off the grid'. To *us*, that means solar power, wood heat, well and septic. I admit it, I'm a big ole wussy, b/c you'll get my internet when I'm dead, and I'm not going without running water and electricity, EVER. I really would LOVE to be in a position of growing a *lot* of our own food, be it on the hoof or in the garden. But we're not stupid, or crazy. We know what we don't know, and that's a LOT. Far too much for us to undertake such an event, from scratch. Could we sell everything not nailed down, and strike out on our own? Possibly. But I couldn't allow Bazinga the Wonder Dog to live in the conditions that these children were in, let alone my Minions. EVER. I wouldn't leave Bazinga with only three freaking walls. In the winter. What the holy heck?! And, I love my dog. But my kids are higher up the love chain than she is, so out of all the living creatures in my home, if it's not good enough for the DOG, there's no way on Earth I'd allow it for humans. I get the idea of 'roughing it'. And homesteading. I'm far too used to my comforts to be any good at it. But what they're doing ISN'T either of those. It's living in squalor, and attempting to legitimize it. I sincerely hope the children aren't returned. I can't imagine how much worse it would be, now that the children have been apprehended once, for the authorities to show up again. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okra Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Now this was posted about a year ago, but it answers the water questions and the laundry questions: http://blessedlittlehomestead.org/tiny-grid-cabin-qa/ Well, seeing her hopes and dreams in pinterest photos, I would say she is struggling with reality. Not that I needed to see the pinterest photos of what she wants to realize that she is struggling with reality. Anyone that listened to the audio recording or any read any of her other posts might have made that guess also. I really hope they find what is best for the kids. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What's the latest on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well, seeing her hopes and dreams in pinterest photos, I would say she is struggling with reality. Not that I needed to see the pinterest photos of what she wants to realize that she is struggling with reality. Anyone that listened to the audio recording or any read any of her other posts might have made that guess also. I really hope they find what is best for the kids. Yes, I think she is too. I've been reading about this off and on a lot today trying to figure out what's going on, what's not being said, and how on earth it relates to homeschooling (my conclusion is that it DOESN'T relate to homeschool FYI)... This whole thing is just sad. I think that having CPS involved in their lives is the absolute right thing here. If they were reported, CPS is required by law to investigate whether they think there is any truth to the claims or not (these pictures prove that there is truth to the claims though). The kitchen tour video was what put me over the edge. That's just gross. How can she cook anything in there in a clean way? I'm surprised they aren't sick more often! So sad...hopefully the kids will get the help they truly need now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 THis was just posted on their FB page: " I knew the family. Went to church with them for awhile. The kids were scared to death of their father. He threatened my family after my dad refused to write him a check for money, instead of bring groceries for the kids. No one will step up because no one who has actually come into contact with them HAS HAD A GOOD EXPERIENCE WITH THEM. Everyone commenting on these posts have never met them. God will not be mocked. And this family is finally reaping what they sow. I pray for these children every day that someone will give them a chance, because their parents never will. ." 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 And another post by someone who actually knew the mother: she used to work for me, the kids all smelled like pee, at the time they had the shed they all lived in. her children may look healthy but there are some serious problems going on. they would steal from me, olivia decided to just do it while starring me in the eye. joe is a piece of work, my daughter got him a job at the hotel she worked at, and he was fired for many reasons, like enjoying nice hot showers on the clock, doing their family’s laundry in the hotels machines, this was discovered because the “clean†sheets and towels were suddenly covered in straw and dirt,he also would spend his time away from the desk and instead sit in one of the other rooms and watch espn, and finally he was fired for theft. oh and during this time he burrowed money from my daughter to buy pot and then refused to pay her back and threatened her and her boyfriend. i finally had to talk to nichole about getting the money returned. and she had no idea he had even burrowed it. she is not angel either, she would work her kids at my shop because she was pregnant and pay them 1.00 a dog and would go get herself McDonalds and they would have to buy their own food. i had to make rules that no child under 13 could be there because she was having children who were too small to be able to control a dog and i was worried they would get hurt. i witnessed the burned hand and the gashed head and neither child got medical attention. i fired her because this family and their craziness was too much for me to handle and joe was trying to bully me so i banned him from my shop. they have had people donating to them on a regular basis as well as hitting up churches ect in our area. in my opinion they do not really care about their children they care more about their “wholesome†life they are trying to portray to their mindless followers. on facebook, they also have had problems with cps and the police in the past so this it not a one time deal and they always record them and post them on fb to prove they are being harassed for their lifestyle, instead of the truth like their tags are expired and they have no insurance. i have never been to their home and do not know its location aside from a generalized area. they have some group funding their state of the art new grooming shop so they can get out of poverty yet she is pregnant again and now they are raising money to buy themselves a house.. can we say scam? they are liars and manipulators and their kids are just pawns and that is my opinion 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Exactly this! These people are fruity loops, and unfortunately, the children really should be taken away, and due to the number of them, they will not be able to be kept together. But, better separated and alive and well so they can resume relationships later, than dead, diseased, dying, badly injured, emotionally beaten down, living in constant fear, and unemployable as adults due to an inability to interact with society and total lack of basic skills and education. I just don't understand people who care so little for the well being of their children. Though I've never been a fan of forced sterilization, these people could put me over that "edge"! I actually think it would be wise for police to take the mom into custody and incarcerate her on child endangerment charges for the duration of the pregnancy because she would receive pre-natal care through the jail, and higher calorie and nutrition count plus have sanitation. This could provide a better outcome for the baby. Then the authorities probably should take the baby away at birth. Sad to say, she shouldn't be allowed to take the baby back there because it is nothing more than a diseased dump. Maybe if the they pull their acts together they could get the baby back, but to be honest, I suspect some mental illness, delusional type issues of both parents and the infant would probably be better off being adopted. Not a popular opinion for certain, but logically, the better plan for the little one. The impression I'm getting from your post is that you seem to think it would be acceptable to force sterilization on a man because he is a questionable father and a lousy provider. You also seem to think it is OK to put a pregnant woman in prison, force prenatal care upon her, and then take her baby away from her permanently when he or she is born. Sounds a little too "police state" for my taste. :eek: It sounds particularly extreme because the only real information we have is being gleaned from some articles on the internet. We don't have any solid information on either the physical or mental condition of those children or the parents. I think we are fairly safe in assuming the parents have some psychological issues and that we can all agree that their living conditions are deplorable, but I still don't advocate sterilizing the father and imprisoning the mother during her pregnancy. I agree that CPS was right to remove the children from the "home" during the investigation, but my hope is that the parents will do what is necessary (including things like regular counseling, both individually and as a family) and eventually be deemed fit to bring their entire family back together again. It is so easy to say we should take the kids away from the parents forever, but in reality, I'm sure those kids love each other and love their parents, and that the parents love those kids, so I think the goal should be trying to find a healthy and stable way for them to be together -- even if it takes a while to get to that point. But JAILING a pregnant woman just because you happen to think she looks malnourished based on a few photos you saw online? Forcing her to have prenatal care she may not want? Sorry, but I think that is going WAY too far. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twoxcell Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I really can't get over the part in that pro-Nauglers link I shared about them having had other interactions with CPS. The author of that post said that if you have a non-traditional lifestyle you *will* have CPS interactions AND she's had "several" friends investigated for nothing more than homeschooling. BS. I just don't buy it. Being investigated several times by CPS is a *big deal.* I have been around a lot of homeschool families over the years, being homeschooled myself and homeschoooling my own children. None of them that I know of have been investigated by CPS just for homeschooling. In fact the only ones I know who have been investigated were actually abusing their children. :banghead: I wish these all of the looney bins would quite associateting themselves with homeschool when no actual school is taking place. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The comments from people who know them are so revealing. This is tangential, but often living off grid like that will mean extra dirt. But there is a difference between "clean dirt" and "dirty dirt". Before you throw me in the looney bin, let me explain what I mean. We got very very dirty out on my brother's homestead because there was dust and dirt getting kicked up all the time. But it was not waste. We were meticulous about animal and human waste. And we were meticulous about food preparation including washing our hands, food prep surfaces and any dishes used. I will say, though, that I thought I was getting a very nice (uncharacteristic!) tan until we went into town for a shower and my tan washed off! 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The comments from people who know them are so revealing. If they're honest, sure, but with all this current media attention who knows what trolls are crawling out of the woodwork? There's more than enough more-or-less reliably sourced information without having to go on unsourced hearsay. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One thing I thought of when perusing many of the images of the "hovel" online as well as the "yard" was tetanus. They don't seem to care a whit about medical issues so I doubt the children are vaccinated. So deadly. The other thing is that my uncle lives in Hardin KY and just like here in my area of Michigan, they have several cases of rabid skunk per year. Dogs love to chase and tangle with skunks. If those six dogs aren't vaccinated for rabies....gah....my brain just shouldn't go there! I hope the children receive tetanus shots while in care. I hope the dogs are taken away because if you can't feed your children properly and provide them with adequate shelter and sanitation, then you don't need to be feeding six dogs! Common sense. Children first. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Marmalade Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Ten pages worth of discussion, and for the most part, the entire Hive is in agreement about this family on some level. That's very telling and very sad for those children. 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am out of likes for the day, Lady Marmalade, but I certainly agree. When the whole Hive is coming down on something, it is really sad. I wish I could take in a few of those kids myself and be a loving home school family for them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyhwkmama Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One thing I thought of when perusing many of the images of the "hovel" online as well as the "yard" was tetanus. They don't seem to care a whit about medical issues so I doubt the children are vaccinated. So deadly. The other thing is that my uncle lives in Hardin KY and just like here in my area of Michigan, they have several cases of rabid skunk per year. Dogs love to chase and tangle with skunks. If those six dogs aren't vaccinated for rabies....gah....my brain just shouldn't go there! I hope the children receive tetanus shots while in care. I hope the dogs are taken away because if you can't feed your children properly and provide them with adequate shelter and sanitation, then you don't need to be feeding six dogs! Common sense. Children first. I have read in a couple of different places that the family does not believe in tetanus shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well, apparently the judge agrees with us. Yahoo is reporting that they lost custody of all ten kids, soooo... And their adult son testified against them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm in complete agreement with the hive over this family. I really can't get over the part in that pro-Nauglers link I shared about them having had other interactions with CPS. The author of that post said that if you have a non-traditional lifestyle you *will* have CPS interactions AND she's had "several" friends investigated for nothing more than homeschooling. BS. I just don't buy it. Being investigated several times by CPS is a *big deal.* I just wanted to address this. I have never been involuntarily investigated, nor have we had problems due to homeschooling. However, I opened a voluntary case after a psychologist accused me of abuse, but didn't report. It was a scare tactic and he'd done it to many families. I now have his bs report filed right next to the CPS paperwork as well as the complaints I made against him. After the first visit, the worker had no idea what she was supposed to investigate, but came around monthly for a meeting and paperwork since I requested a case be opened. Case closed at 6 months. Nothing had to change. No abuse or neglect ever existed. Another time there was no case opened, but there was contact. One visit, no investigation needed, done. And I'm looking at a possible third contact right now. I added a behavior therapist to my son's current therapy team, and some things raise red flags for this added therapist. Current team is confused as to the concerns because they've been here 6 months and there are no concerns or red flags! Current team is going to speak with behavior therapist and hopefully ease her concerns. However, if they can't sway her and she makes the call, whatever. CPS will visit once, case closed. On the other hand, it would make for yet another contact. I'm not sure if this behavior therapist will continue to be part of our team, but probably not. So it is possible to have a lot of contact (but not necessarily investigations) and be a fairly normal family. Because of our contact, any calls would trigger a visit even if that call wouldn't normally trigger a visit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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