JenniferB Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 DP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenniferB Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 My husband grew up in conditions like this. It has been and will continue to be a lifetime of healing for him. Several years ago he took me to his childhood "home" and it put a lot in perspective of the anxiety he suffers from. As a child he wanted CPS to take him. Lord have mercy on these kids. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 What, do tell, is he doing? Clearly it's not building them a house or installing a water system. knocking her up - but that' doesn't take very much time. Okay, well, fair enough... $60 / hour sounds pretty decent. that also depends how many dogs is she grooming in a day? in a week? I can't see someone with money to spend on dog grooming wanting to take their dog to that environment. who knows what the dog would bring home. The sign on the kitchen gate says the land is leased. Leasing is a cheap way to get a whole bunch of undeveloped land. until they can't make their lease payments . . . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 HSLDA says they don't represent families when there are charges of child abuse. Are you (the general you) sure they're involved in this one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [quote name="JenniferB" post="6350324" timestamp="1431390239 As a child he wanted CPS to take him. . Kyrie eleison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Capistrano...where the swallows return... I think we are, at Lucy's instigation, running a spin-off thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Something that I find so telling about this whole situation is the lack of personal responsibility. These parents invited government involvement into their lives when they trespassed on their neighbor's property and stole his water. They have to own that, and unless they do I don't think there is much hope for them. and sent a child to get a gun so dad could point it at the neighbor. as horrid as that was, the kids are now out of there and into a safer environment. I question whether these parents are capable of meeting the requirements of cps to get their kids back. they sound utterly clueless *at best*. possible mentally ill. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butter Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 HSLDA says they don't represent families when there are charges of child abuse. Are you (the general you) sure they're involved in this one? The Nauglers mentioned on their FB that they have gotten help from HSLDA. HSLDA has been quoted in some articles, though there is nothing official on HSLDA's website. It's also on the Nauglers' FAQ http://www.saveourfamily.info/faq/: Are you getting any support from the homeschooling community?“Yes. Local homeschoolers and the HSLDA.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Even if they eventually opt not to represent them, HSLDA has promoted their fundraising. That's bad enough. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 very true. I just read some more, and I didn't realize they had older teens; 18 & 14. I hope the parents are very creative/get busy elsewhere on their acreage. I get the hebbie jebbies just thinking about Michelle and Jim Bob kissing in public as they do. I would so not have wanted to 'pretend not to notice' my own parents at 14. Signed, just another uptight American. ;) Well, i also am a North American by upbringing and don't want to hear my parents have sex even now. However, in my more rational moments, I think these kinds of close quarters might actually have been a lot healthier in many ways for peoples sexual psychology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 My husband grew up in conditions like this. It has been and will continue to be a lifetime of healing for him. Several years ago he took me to his childhood "home" and it put a lot in perspective of the anxiety he suffers from. As a child he wanted CPS to take him. Lord have mercy on these kids. :grouphug: God bless you and him for breaking the cycle. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I think we are, at Lucy's instigation, running a spin-off thread! I'm a bad influence. I will lead you straight down pointless bunny trails. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/a-former-off-grid-homeschooled-childs-thoughts-on-the-naugler-family/ This is a good article. Oh good gracious goodness. That article turned my stomach. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Oh good gracious goodness. That article turned my stomach. I've been thinking about all the people who "liked" the picture and post of the children sleeping outside, on blankets in the mud when they were sick. I wonder if the parents already tend toward living in squalor (due to unknown reasons, but I'd guess mental illness and family of origin issues) and all the "likes" normalized their lifestyle? And made them think everything was relatively OK? 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I watched the video tour of their kitchen. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE???? That and their living quarters... I don't understand how they could think this is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I've been thinking about all the people who "liked" the picture and post of the children sleeping outside, on blankets in the mud when they were sick. I wonder if the parents already tend toward living in squalor (due to unknown reasons, but I'd guess mental health and family of origin issues) and all the "likes" normalized their lifestyle? And made them think everything was relatively OK? There also is the phenomenon of when a blog "preaches to the choir", the choir responds with "AMEN!". 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You know, what this really reminds me of is "The Glass Castle". I wonder if there isn't some level of mental illness or personality disorder going on here. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You know, what this really reminds me of is "The Glass Castle". I wonder if there isn't some level of mental illness or personality disorder going on here. I was just wondering this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The father just posted this statement. But of course, these are just his claims. CPS obviously cannot verify if they truly have not found fault in their situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In one source I read that they are former LDS members. What are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Did you happen to find out if he was alleging abuse only with himself as the victim, or all the kids? And did he live with them before or after this "off the grid" bit? I'm wondering if testified that the current living situation is abusive (no heat, etc) or if was saying he was abused even before this fiasco. I don't know if he's alleging abuse of the kids but from what I understand from a blog post written by Nicole Naugler (who is his step mother) when he was 17, when he was a young child, around 7ish years old, they sent him for a visit to his mother, and she never sent him back, accused Alex's father (Mr. Naugler) of abuse and Alex's uncle (the mother's brother?) ended up with custody of Alex. They never saw him again, and weren't allowed contact by the family in Alex's life. She said they were both heartbroken. A commenter said that "the system has been against this family from the start." Anyway, I have no idea how Alex became involved in this situation to begin with unless CPS contacted him to ask him for a testimony. Would they do that? I don't know. I saw a video where he said he was very worried about his half siblings and wanted what was best for them. It's possible he's been involved in their lives between the time he turned 18 and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I did some more reading (including that article posted above) and have decided this family is homeless. I think they had it kind of together when they had the pre-fab but once it was repossessed, they became the equivalent of a family living in their car or in a makeshift structure under an overpass. Most people who lose their apartment or home don't have land to set up on. That's the big difference. They're delusional. It's a bad situation. The mother looks malnourished and is 5 months pregnant. She's probably exhausted and not eating enough nutritious food for the fetus. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orthodox6 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If they really are leasing the land, one might expect a statement from the property owner (if not an eviction). -- ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In one source I read that they are former LDS members. What are they now? Crazy cakes, 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There also is the phenomenon of when a blog "preaches to the choir", the choir responds with "AMEN!". I think this is happening a lot. No matter what comes out about this family, there are people who are supportive, dismissing concerns, claiming that there's bias against this family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am trying to figure out how, if DCS cleared the home, etc. As the Dad claims, the judge would keep the kids in custody while they "complete the investigation." If there is no/not enough evidence of wrong doing, they legally CAN'T keep the kids beyond the 72 hour emergency hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In one source I read that they are former LDS members. What are they now? I believe they may still technically be LDS but not practicing. Apparently they didn't get along well with people in their congregation. (This is a summary of what someone who knows (and likes) them said in an LDS group I'm on). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwg Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Did you happen to find out if he was alleging abuse only with himself as the victim, or all the kids? And did he live with them before or after this "off the grid" bit? I'm wondering if testified that the current living situation is abusive (no heat, etc) or if was saying he was abused even before this fiasco. http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/Off-grid-Couple-Faces-Hearing-to-Regain-Child-Custody-303273911.html This article states he has not lived with them for many years and was abused as a small child. ETA_ "He said county investigators signed off on the sanitary system today." That is good I suppose. Their composting toilet or whatever she calls it was really bothering me. If it is true. Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/state-seizes-kids-from-family-living-off-grid/#7LF6fS1zK6IG0S6C.99 http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/state-seizes-kids-from-family-living-off-grid/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The Dad's statement also said they have cooperated fully with CPS.......but yet if they had always cooperated the kids wouldn't have been hidden from DCS, then removed on emergency order & the Mom wouldn't have been arrested for disorder conduct. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I am trying to figure out how, if DCS cleared the home, etc. As the Dad claims, the judge would keep the kids in custody while they "complete the investigation." If there is no/not enough evidence of wrong doing, they legally CAN'T keep the kids beyond the 72 hour emergency hold. There's no reason to accept the veracity of the dad's claims. CPS can't make such assurances. He may not be lying but at minimum he is distorting what he has been told. The rationalizations of a desperate dad. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmyopinion Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Granted, I know people handle stress differently, but their posts just seem odd to me. Like yesterday, wanting to discuss homesteading with their "new" members. Just weird! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 WND is not a very, um, reliable source. The fact that one child is estranged does not really give me confidence in this family. Children do not normally become estranged from their parents without something seriously being wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenC Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I ECed my first three. It wasn't hard, or messy or anything. Aries was most successful. Out of diapers at 3 months. I'm not sure how not having running water would effect cleaning a baby. Wouldn't one have a supply of warm, clean water and cloths handy? I use a squeezy bottle and a baby tub to clean Luna. She doesn't shower. Washing cloth diapers would be more difficult, though not impossible. But if they are using paper diapers, that is moot. I had to have hot water to wash my hands afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenC Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 If the mom is truly working full time and the family is still living in such deplorable conditions, I have to wonder what they are doing with the money she makes. "Liar, liar, pants on fire" comes to mind. But how far is a dog groomer's salary going to go with 10 kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine.more Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It is not a new thing. When I was young my parents did foster care, on one of the home visits the social worker was over joyed to see books in the house. Apparently, it was the first time he had encountered books in the home of a foster family. I like to think he was new and my parents were, at most the second visit he made. It saddens me to think of houses without books. Yeah, our daughter's previous foster family only had a small handful of crappy books. Good, nice family who had fostered forever but not readers. My daughter was baffled at how much we read. Her birth home had zero books with 3 kids (ages 5-12). Many of my students when I taught had no books or crayons at home, so sad :( And looking over this Naugler family's blog and facebook page...wow! I've never seen such appalling living conditions, that is not homesteading, it's squatting on land that happens to be yours. Hoping they eventually cooperate with CPS and get things together with a real house (the old cabin they had looked fine, if they could scrounge enough money to get that back and add a few things like insulation and flooring), a well for water, and a proper outhouse built. Not to mention some sort of education plan cause wow, I've never heard of an unschooler without a billion books and basic supplies (paper, crayons, pencils, math manipulatives) around! In fact I'm kinda mad they're calling themselves homeschoolers. If they're not registered as such, have no kids books, and no curriculum or plan then they're just truant. I'm all for homeschooling looking very different from public school but they're not teaching anything except maybe not to use gasoline to start a campfire (her son burned his hands doing that!). Oy! This whole situation is cuh-ra-zy! 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinivanMom Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You know, what this really reminds me of is "The Glass Castle". I wonder if there isn't some level of mental illness or personality disorder going on here. This is what the Naugler story kept reminding me of. There's a description in The Glass Castle of the pit behind their house where they threw garbage. I keep imagining that in regards to this family. There has to be serious mental illness going with one or both of the parents. Perhaps the father is devolving and the mother is enabling him? There is definitely a huge disconnect from reality. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I keep seeing HSLDA mentioned by them and others but does anyone know for a fact if HSLDA is supporting them or representing them? I actually went to the HSLDA website to see if I would see them mentioned (and didn't) but I'm not a member and I don't know if they usually post what cases they are involved in or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 On another forum they have pictures of the dog grooming business. It looks like they started to remodel in March with a 20K loan from a private person. Has she been doing any grooming since then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 But how far is a dog groomer's salary going to go with 10 kids? Even if she is a relatively unsuccessful dog groomer, it would seem that the money would help them live someplace with four walls and a ceiling. ;) With all those kids, if the parents acted like normal people, they would qualify for public assistance and would have basic food and shelter. They are at fault for the disgusting way their children have been forced to live. They are so busy being anti-establishment that they have completely disregarded their own children's welfare. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I believe they may still technically be LDS but not practicing. Apparently they didn't get along well with people in their congregation. (This is a summary of what someone who knows (and likes) them said in an LDS group I'm on). I wonder if the church or elders or somebody could step in and help? I know there are things like the Bishop's storehouse? (think that's the name) and such. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a local ward wouldn't band together and build them a better home/shelter. But, of course, they'd have to be open to help, and to counsel, and all the other stuff. Granted, I think there are other issues (mental health issues) involved, but i would think that the church might be able to help foster/care for the 10 children, or at least help get a stable livable home for them while the parents got help. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 The fact that one child is estranged does not really give me confidence in this family. Children do not normally become estranged from their parents without something seriously being wrong. Well, I've known too many situations of adult children on both sides to agree with that. Sometimes people become estranged because of philosophical, religious, lifestyle, or political differences where neither side is abusive or evil. Just irreconcilable or perhaps lacking in great communication skills. But the circumstances of the "estranged son" being taken from them so early does give me pause too. Of course, I don't feel like we even need that evidence. I mean, those images. The sick kids sleeping outside. Wow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I wonder if the church or elders or somebody could step in and help? I know there are things like the Bishop's storehouse? (think that's the name) and such. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a local ward wouldn't band together and build them a better home/shelter. But, of course, they'd have to be open to help, and to counsel, and all the other stuff. Granted, I think there are other issues (mental health issues) involved, but i would think that the church might be able to help foster/care for the 10 children, or at least help get a stable livable home for them while the parents got help. There are people who claim that their bishop/church (whatever ther terminology is) did help them and donated all sorts of things to them (beds, mattresses, etc), but that the family sold all of the donations. Granted, it's all just rumor and speculation, but it would appear they have burned some bridges. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I wonder if the church or elders or somebody could step in and help? I know there are things like the Bishop's storehouse? (think that's the name) and such. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a local ward wouldn't band together and build them a better home/shelter. But, of course, they'd have to be open to help, and to counsel, and all the other stuff. Granted, I think there are other issues (mental health issues) involved, but i would think that the church might be able to help foster/care for the 10 children, or at least help get a stable livable home for them while the parents got help. Yeah, they're just a couple Relief Society visits away from being just fine... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsheresomewhere Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 There people who claim that their bishop/church (whatever ther terminology is) did help them and donated all sorts of things to them (beds, mattresses, etc), but that the family sold all of the donations. Granted, it's all just rumor and speculation, but it would appear they have burned some bridges. This. Several sources say they were asked to leave their ward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In one source I read that they are former LDS members. What are they now? The sheriff says the family has not been cooperative at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Well, I've known too many situations of adult children on both sides to agree with that. Sometimes people become estranged because of philosophical, religious, lifestyle, or political differences where neither side is abusive or evil. Just irreconcilable or perhaps lacking in great communication skills. But the circumstances of the "estranged son" being taken from them so early does give me pause too. Of course, I don't feel like we even need that evidence. I mean, those images. The sick kids sleeping outside. Wow. Sure, it can happen... but then you don't usually hear more allegations of abuse against the rest of the kids down the line. Any two people can become estranged, sure, but after that it starts to look less like a thing and more like a pattern, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I wonder if the church or elders or somebody could step in and help? I know there are things like the Bishop's storehouse? (think that's the name) and such. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a local ward wouldn't band together and build them a better home/shelter. But, of course, they'd have to be open to help, and to counsel, and all the other stuff. Granted, I think there are other issues (mental health issues) involved, but i would think that the church might be able to help foster/care for the 10 children, or at least help get a stable livable home for them while the parents got help. I don't think these parents want real, constructive help from anyone; I think they want handouts. Period. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 http://www.wbko.com/home/headlines/Off-grid-Couple-Faces-Hearing-to-Regain-Child-Custody-303273911.html This article states he has not lived with them for many years and was abused as a small child. ETA_ "He said county investigators signed off on the sanitary system today." That is good I suppose. Their composting toilet or whatever she calls it was really bothering me. If it is true. Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/state-seizes-kids-from-family-living-off-grid/#7LF6fS1zK6IG0S6C.99 http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/state-seizes-kids-from-family-living-off-grid/ Thanks for the link. The composting toilet didn't bother me at all. I've used them throughout national parks like Yosemite and they're great. They don't smell at all and are much cleaner and less obtrusive than garish port-a-potties. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thanks for the link. The composting toilet didn't bother me at all. I've used them throughout national parks like Yosemite and they're great. They don't smell at all and are much cleaner and less obtrusive than garish port-a-potties. We'll have to agree to disagree on the toilet issue. :) I have seen composting toilets on a few of the "tiny house" shows, and I think they are pretty darned disgusting. Forget about whether or not they smell -- who would want to clean them out? And with a family that large, let's just say it must be a very substantial -- and frequent -- job. Yikes. I have to say, though, that considering the conditions under which that family has been living, the composting toilet may very well be the most sanitary part of their living environment. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm not convinced they just want handouts. I think they have a rather extreme dream that isn't entirely impossible, but they're not equipped to make it happen. They seem to want help on their own terms and I'm pretty sure that most (no) LDS bishops aren't going to be willing to help make their dream happen. That fits well with the suggestion that they sold stuff that had been donated to them- they seem to have their own idea of what they need to live their lives and don't really want anyone else's help in making that happen. I think it's entirely possible that means they aren't capable of caring for and educating 11 children and won't accept the help they need to become capable. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts