Jean in Newcastle Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Ie. Driving their own kids somewhere but driving exhausted. As the other parent would this be a line in the sand thing or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 If I go one night without much sleep I'd probably be fine, but if I went several days with little sleep then no I would not drive. I think it depends on the details and the person. If I'm not comfortable with something, I'm not afraid to speak up, but realistically speaking we all kinda have these times where we have to do stuff under less than desirable circumstances. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Depends. Just one night with little sleep, driving in the morning, driving short distances (i.e. less than a couple of hours) - no problem. Severely sleep deprived over extended period, or driving during the wee hours of the night, or driving 4+hours when not well rested- yes, that would be a problem. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Just a half hour each way. So, it sounds like not a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truscifi Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Another vote for depends on the circumstances. I am okay driving on little sleep as long as it is a fairly short trip and somewhere I am familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Just a half hour each way. So, it sounds like not a problem? A short half hour drive during daylight with an experienced driver who just did not get a lot of sleep the night before would not be an issue for me. ETA: the half hour drive could be an issue if it was at the end of the day, in dusk or dark, with a driver who got little sleep the previous night and was up all day. Circadian rhythm definitely plays a role. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Agree, short half hour drive during daylight hours in good weather with an experienced driver that didn't get a lot of sleep that one night prior to driving would be o.k. with me as long as they themselves felt they were alert enough to drive and they were not driving in someplace inherently challenging to drive in the first place (like some single lane road on the side of a mountain with no guard rail...:) ). But that depends on the driver. With my mother, heck no. She is shaky as a driver in the first place. She tends to get nervous and lock up. But without sleep? No way..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It would depend on circumstances. For example, how important the need for the drive was, what other options were realistically available, how much danger it was putting the children (or others) in. If it were a drive for no particularly urgent or important reason, or there were other options realistically available, I would expect the person to wait till better rested or to use the other options. I would want the person to be modeling the driving practices I would want the children to use when they drive as teens/young adults. Is the trip so urgent that it should be made even when exhausted? Some times the answer to that may be yes. Usually the answer is no. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 DH can do fine for a night of NO sleep and be able to function fairly well the next day as long as he recharges after. One night of poor sleep and I can't function. That's actually one reason why I don't do long-distance drives by myself-because I'm usually fine day 1, but day 2 is a real concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yes, I would have a problem with that. http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsDrowsyDriving/ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T'smom Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I have had insomnia for a long time. I feel like I am a more cautious driver than most people I know. I would not even occur to me to not drive after a day or two of little sleep. I have, however, decided not to drive after a few days of almost *no* sleep. One of those times, my mom was visiting. There was a store she wanted to go to and I told her I was too tired to drive. She said no problem and got in the driver's seat and immediately backed into the road and hit the neighbors car that was parked on the street. Another time I made my dh drive me to the doctor. Anyway, I guess I would trust the judgement of the person who was driving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I dont know; aren't all parents exhausted ? Skimping on one night sleep probably would be okay to me on a short drive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yes, I would. I've cancelled outings in the past when I've slept too badly to be a safe driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Circumstances might change my opinion, but yes, I would have a problem with that. I spent too many years as an insurance claims representative adjusting car accidents due to lack of sleep. I'm sure I overreact at times, but I have personal experience. I would rather overreact than live with the potential consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I would let my husband drive our kids if he hadn't slept the night before. He functions pretty well on little sleep. I however would not drive my kids if I had little sleep the night before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It depends on the person. I have worked night shift for the last 4 years and have routinely driven my kids after I got off work and took a 2-3 hour nap to appointments, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It would depend on the person's driving history. Some people can do this, some can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 As a single mom, I sometimes have to do this. If my kid has kept me up sick all night and then needs to go to the doctor the next day, guess who drives her there? :P It isn't ideal. But then, I don't have a history of driving problems while tired. I've driven tired many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yes I would. Our house rule is 5 hr sleep or more. Anything shorter means no driving. Its not worth it. So did that mean no driving for mom during the infant years? Or are your kids miraculous sleepers? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I would err on the side of caution but a short drive with good conditions is probably okay. When I have had an important drive the next day that includes children, I have taken a teaspoon of Benedryl the night before to make sure I can sleep better if I suspect I'm going to have problems falling or staying asleep. I'm very cautious about driving, and also about taking more than a little of something that will help me sleep because that could also mess things up the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Yes, because it's as dangerous as drunk driving. I realize that this is reality for many, though. We have a sleep deprived nation, and some people are working 2-3 jobs because they have to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I would be cautious. We had a big accident on our street when a driver who lives down the street fell asleep and hit 3 cars and a house. After falling asleep and running though a stop sign, she crossed to the wrong side of the street and sideswiped two parallel parked cars there, woke up, panicked, swerved across the street, hit another car, ran over someone's lawn, and hit their house, damaging the wall and taking out the water. Luckily it was dusk and the kids were eating dinner because they are are often on the sidewalk she drove over on her way to hit the house. She was coming home from her work downtown, 0.7 miles, but told the police she hadn't slept much the night before due to a shift change. This was while they were giving her a field sobriety test. The crazy thing is she fell asleep in a two block time frame, as she had to have made the sharp turn to get onto the street in the first place and hit cars in the second block after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I certainly have driven my kids during the day on that amount of sleep. It's not an uncommon thing, unfortunately. I never nap - ever - and have never had a "dozing while driving" incident. However, I probably would find someone else if the driving were in the evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraidycat Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I'd *worry*, but life being life, it happens sometimes - sleep deprived people still need to get places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeacherZee Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I'm actually worse day 2. The first day after not sleeping well I can usually "power through" but if I only get my normal sleep the next night and don't "catch up" I wouldn't drive unless I really could not get out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I was noticing the OP and wondering about the "their own kids" aspect. I'm assuming this must mean that some people would think potentially endangering ones own children is more acceptable than if it were someone else's children? Or am I missing something about that aspect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 I was noticing the OP and wondering about the "their own kids" aspect. I'm assuming this must mean that some people would think potentially endangering ones own children is more acceptable than if it were someone else's children? Or am I missing something about that aspect? Pretty much. I think we are a bit more "by the book" when it is someone else's kids. Obviously arguments of health and wellbeing have a limit where it isn't ok for even your own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 nt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It depends on the person. My husband is regularly going on 4-5 hours a night, nights on end. It's horrible for his health and he does take things like NoDoze to stay awake. However we haven't had any accidents or even near misses - and are trying to rectify the lack of sleep. I'm also good on minimal sleep, even though it isnt great for my body. But I know multiple people who cannot function with less than a full nights sleep. While that would be nice, it's a luxury in our lives right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs. Tharp Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 It depends on the spouse's ability to tolerate fatigue, the time of day, and the length of the drive, but my short answer is no, I would not be okay with this, especially if it involves freeway driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacus2 Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 I am concerned about drowsy driving, but I can't figure out how someone who lives in a driving only area can avoid it. We don't get to quit going places if we have young kids who don't sleep through the night, suffer from insomnia, or have unavoidable life disruptions which interfere with sleep. What is a realistic solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I am concerned about drowsy driving, but I can't figure out how someone who lives in a driving only area can avoid it. We don't get to quit going places if we have young kids who don't sleep through the night, suffer from insomnia, or have unavoidable life disruptions which interfere with sleep. What is a realistic solution? What is the exact situation? I guess this also applies to surgeons who would be practicing surgery without any sleep the prior night, air traffic controllers who have been kept up by young kids or insomnia, etc. I suppose it is also how people who have had too much to drink feel. They don't get to quit going someplace just because they happened to have a few too many. They still have obligations too, and if they live in a driving area, well, they gotta drive, right? What is a realistic solution for this and could it be that the same applies to the drowsy driving situation as a drunk driving situation since both impair the ability to drive well and maybe even impair the ability to recognize one's own impairment? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmrich Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 My neighbors told me (a few years after the fact) that they were scared to let thier kids ride with me because I was so sleep deprived after my youngest was born. She was colicky.... but yet they never offered to drive my carpool turn... interesting. If I had reservations about someone's ability to drive my child; I would drive. I also do not look at things like I drive one time, you drive the next time; it is more I do what I can to help; I think it all comes back around anyways. Pay it forward! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This sounds like a question one would pose because they don't like something the ex-husband is doing. I am suspicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Yes, if the parent were having difficulty staying awake I would have a problem with it. In Driver's Ed, way back in the old 90's, my teacher make a big deal about teaching us that not only was driving while intoxicated dangerous but that driving while over tired or over emotional had the potential to be just as dangerous. He taught us to not drive if we were really angry or sad or if we were really tired. That has always stuck with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaConquest Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I would not feel comfortable with it. A good friend died in his 20s because he fell asleep at the wheel. Yes, I would have a problem with that. http://www.cdc.gov/Features/dsDrowsyDriving/ Cognitive impairment after approximately 18 hours awake is similar to that of someone with a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.05%.8-10 After about 24 hours awake, impairment is equivalent to a BAC of 0.10%, higher than the legal limit in all states.10-11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingmom Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Didn't read all the answers.... It would definitely cause a huge arguement beforehand as I would not want to allow it. When I was 17 my brother(age 26) fell asleep at the wheel and died, along with his passenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebbyribs Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 What is the exact situation? I guess this also applies to surgeons who would be practicing surgery without any sleep the prior night, air traffic controllers who have been kept up by young kids or insomnia, etc. I suppose it is also how people who have had too much to drink feel. They don't get to quit going someplace just because they happened to have a few too many. They still have obligations too, and if they live in a driving area, well, they gotta drive, right? What is a realistic solution for this and could it be that the same applies to the drowsy driving situation as a drunk driving situation since both impair the ability to drive well and maybe even impair the ability to recognize one's own impairment? They might feel the same way, but it's a different situation. Nobody's pouring drinks down their throats. You can plan to stay sober. Getting sufficient sleep is much trickier - how can you guarantee that you'll fall asleep at a reasonable time, that you won't be awoken in the night, or that you won't have awful nightmares? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 This sounds like a question one would pose because they don't like something the ex-husband is doing. I am suspicious. I don't think I have an ex-husband. Do I? Am I that sleep deprived that I would forget? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlsdMama Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I would not feel comfortable with it. A good friend died in his 20s because he fell asleep at the wheel. Cognitive impairment after approximately 18 hours awake is similar to that of someone with a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.05%.8-10 After about 24 hours awake, impairment is equivalent to a BAC of 0.10%, higher than the legal limit in all states.10-11 Not with my kiddos. Not without a car seat, not drunk, and not without sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Pretty much. I think we are a bit more "by the book" when it is someone else's kids. Obviously arguments of health and wellbeing have a limit where it isn't ok for even your own. Yeah, we do boosters to max height here. But when I have an extra kid, provided they are all legally seated, mine goes without. Technically she can. Nobody else's kid will be less safe than my own, in my car. To the OP: I don't know. I'd like to say... no. But it does depend on the circumstances. Emergencies I'm willing to compromise on. Short distances, to and from school, no major intersections, fine. Not a field trip and especially not unfamiliar routes. I don't know. I am a bad driver on little sleep. So bad that I don't do it any more. I don't always believe people who say they can power through. Very tough decision. I guess now that I've thought about it I'd say no. ETA: I went away from the screen, and I imagined myself waking up to a phone call at 6 a.m.: "Binip, I am so sorry, but I didn't sleep last night. I thought I would but X happened and I didn't. I wanted to power through but I couldn't betray your trust. I can't drive today." How would I feel? I'd be relieved. I'd trust that person more. I'd think, "Wow, that shows a lot of character." I would not be resentful at all. I'd call my boss and tell her there was an emergency, and drive. If she didn't tell me and I found out later, I'd probably be worried but not angry. I would tell her to please call, for all of our peace of mind. So I think I wouldn't so much have a problem with someone who did it, but I would, thinking about it, make the decision to back out for safety's sake, if the tired driver was me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I took myself off the road for two whole years because of insomnia and the brain fog my illness was giving me. Even going to the grocery store one mile away was out. During that time, I only drove when we had to drop a car off at the mechanic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 People way, way overestimate their ability to drive and do things when sleep deprived. I read recently about some sort of test givpen to people who'd been up for 24 hours. (Sorry, I can't remember what type of test it was.) Those people did as poorly as drunks, but if I remember correctly, they had no idea how lousy they were doing. Sleep deprivation is a big reason I hope self-driving cars become reality for the average person someday. In my experience, the average person skimps on their sleep by 2 hours per night for years and has no idea how much it is dragging down their memory, reaction time, mood, and health. My mind is boggled when a person goes to the doctor complaining of fatigue because they've made no attempt to get more than six hours of sleep. Our country has become so sleep deprived that it doesn't even register for many people that they may feel crappy because they've been burning the candle at both ends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 yes. for how much I'd fight would depend how far they were going, what time of day, and what the traffic was like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Ie. Driving their own kids somewhere but driving exhausted. As the other parent would this be a line in the sand thing or not? Line in the sand. Driving while sleep deprived is every bit as dangerous as driving while impaired from alcohol or drugs. Dh would never fight me about it, but I have battled with our teenagers after they pulled an "all nighter" and wanted to drive to school. Nope. Went to the mat on that one, even with a college age student. Happy to provide taxi service. ETA: from the cdc link posted by a pp above: Drowsy Driving and AlcoholCognitive impairment after approximately 18 hours awake is similar to that of someone with a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 0.05%.8-10 After about 24 hours awake, impairment is equivalent to a BAC of 0.10%, higher than the legal limit in all states.10-11 This is why. It's no more about experience, can he handle it, etc. than driving while drinking is. It's just that we're more conditioned to think it's okay. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Yeah, we do boosters to max height here. But when I have an extra kid, provided they are all legally seated, mine goes without. Technically she can. Nobody else's kid will be less safe than my own, in my car. To the OP: I don't know. I'd like to say... no. But it does depend on the circumstances. Emergencies I'm willing to compromise on. Short distances, to and from school, no major intersections, fine. Not a field trip and especially not unfamiliar routes. I don't know. I am a bad driver on little sleep. So bad that I don't do it any more. I don't always believe people who say they can power through. Very tough decision. I guess now that I've thought about it I'd say no. ETA: I went away from the screen, and I imagined myself waking up to a phone call at 6 a.m.: "Binip, I am so sorry, but I didn't sleep last night. I thought I would but X happened and I didn't. I wanted to power through but I couldn't betray your trust. I can't drive today." How would I feel? I'd be relieved. I'd trust that person more. I'd think, "Wow, that shows a lot of character." I would not be resentful at all. I'd call my boss and tell her there was an emergency, and drive. If she didn't tell me and I found out later, I'd probably be worried but not angry. I would tell her to please call, for all of our peace of mind. So I think I wouldn't so much have a problem with someone who did it, but I would, thinking about it, make the decision to back out for safety's sake, if the tired driver was me. I confess my first thought, if someone said that to me, would be a jaw drop, an eye roll, and recommending copious amounts of caffeine and big girl panties. But I've been chronically sleep deprived for years and life doesn't stop functioning just because people wake up at night and multiple jobs are worked. You do the best you can, as safely as you can, but where we live if my spouse or I had to stop driving because of fatigue we'd be completely screwed. No good bus service, lots of commuting, and very few vehicles that can accomodate all of us. Thus, caffeine and big girl panties ;) This isn't a slam on anyone else and their responsibility - I was a bit surprised this was my knee jerk reaction! Even if one of my friends called and said they didn't want to drive because of fatigue I'd be jaw droppingly shocked. I've never heard someone doing that before, but I've also only met one person who has fallen asleep at the wheel and she was a college student making a late night commute alone, on a straight road. Kudos to all you parents with more sleep and more ethics than me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie G Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The question leaves out enough detail for me to decide- things such as past driving history and whether the person has a reputation that includes poor decision making. I'm 54 years old and I've had my share of sleep deprived drives- kids up all night sick and I still had to go to work the next day, dh in the hospital after having a heart attack and I drove home in the middle of the night, didn't sleep, and drove back the next morning. Plenty of times I have taken road trips and we've driven late into the night. I'm 54 and haven't ever had a traffic ticket or an accident. So I would trust myself to judge whether I could drive or not. (Of course there is always a first time for something bad to happen, but historically I am a pretty good judge of whether I can drive or not) But I know lots of people that I don't think could drive well when sleep deprived. My son is one of them- when he's sleepy he loses focus. My dad is another, as he's 85 and falls asleep at home during a conversation with people. One of my sisters, no way. She's a marginal driver anyway. But there are others I'd trust. So I guess my vote is...maybe, maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimm Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The first months after a baby is born, there wasn't a time I didn't drive tired. You drink a lot of coffee and do what you must. Life can't grind to a halt till the baby learns to sleep well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 It also might be a criminal offense, depending where you live: http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/summaries-of-current-drowsy-driving-laws.aspx You also don't need to have had zero sleep the night before to be impaired: http://drowsydriving.org/about/facts-and-stats/ Sleep deprivation increases the risk of a sleep-related crash; the less people sleep, the greater the risk.According to a study by the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety, people who sleep six to seven hours a night are twice as likely to be involved in such a crash as those sleeping 8 hours or more, while people sleeping less than 5 hours increased their risk four to five times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 They might feel the same way, but it's a different situation. Nobody's pouring drinks down their throats. You can plan to stay sober. Getting sufficient sleep is much trickier - how can you guarantee that you'll fall asleep at a reasonable time, that you won't be awoken in the night, or that you won't have awful nightmares? If the impairment is equal as with drinking, it makes sense to take some alternative approach. For example, perhaps: You maybe can ask someone else to please drive. In some places you can call a cab or other form of ride service. You can cancel an appointment. Maybe you can take a pre-driving restorative nap. Maybe your 17 year old would be more able to drive than the sleep deprived adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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