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Southern tradition or simple rudeness (RSVP question)


TravelingChris
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My dd is getting married in less than a month.  She sent save the date cards in early fall to many people and sent actual invitations in late Nov.  She sent an invitation, a reply card and a stamped self addressed envelope.  She has started to get responses and she has about 50 so far.  People from other areas of the country and from right here are sending yes or no responses, as would be expected.  On the other hand, she has been told by the MS  side that in the South, people don;t do RSVP and she shouldn't expect responses.   Those people have to travel anywhere from 4 to 6 hours to get here so this is not a spur of the moment trip.  SHe thinks we should just not expect them and not worry about it.  Now since we are not having a sit down dinner, it is a bit less urgent- but only a bit.  We are having heavy hors d'oeuvres and the cakes, of course and the cost of the food and cakes are the costliest parts of the entire wedding.  We don't need numbers until 3 days before when I am bringing the check to the caterer.   But I don't want the ugly surprise that people don't say yes and then appear.  I know we will get some more food than the actual number but at over 20 a head, I am not interested in paying lots more for people who aren't going to be there or even worse, having people go hungry because rudeniks who never responded suddenly show up.

 

So is this some real Southern tradition that I know nothing about, is it a so called polite way of saying no, or is it just that side's weirdness?  Or something else all together.  What I really don't get is I have heard of all the problems with people not getting responses but I never heard of people responding I may come or I probably won't or these type of responses she is actually getting.

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13 years ago I helped run a wedding a NC. We had to call most of the groom's side and their parents to get responses.  Most of them said they thought the response card was a momento for them to keep, especially because it had the "Love" stamps on the return envelope! I was like WHAT????  The groom said his mother said that was just how it was in the middle of nowhere NC.  I can't for the life of me understand how anyone is expected to plan a wedding like that. 

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That was my view too.  I grew up in Northern Virginia when it was changing from a more southern area to more cosmopolitan and yes, my parents were immigrants from Europe. But even though I didn't get married in the South, my understanding of Southern values and traditions were that they tended to be more traditional and more formal than many other areas of the country.  Places where children are taught to say Yes, sir and Yes, ma'am aren't the kind of places where rudeness is acceptable was my understanding.

 

 

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It definitely is not a Southern thing. I was taught to RSVP. Very old South weddings eschewed RSVP cards until fairly recently. RSVP went on the invite, and the invitee was supposed to write a formal note in response. And, gasp, address and stamp it herself! ;)

 

I've never heard of such craziness!

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It is a modern day phenomenon, not a Southern thing.  Not RSVPing is rampant, but I think it is a product of our texting, FBing, do tings on a whim society.  That said, it is still rude to not reply in some fashion when people are trying to plan for food and such.  I liked the suggestion of emailing people with a deadline to respond for catering reasons.

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13 years ago I helped run a wedding a NC. We had to call most of the groom's side and their parents to get responses.  Most of them said they thought the response card was a momento for them to keep, especially because it had the "Love" stamps on the return envelope! I was like WHAT????  The groom said his mother said that was just how it was in the middle of nowhere NC.  I can't for the life of me understand how anyone is expected to plan a wedding like that. 

 

Um, pretty sure where I've lived my whole life qualifies as "middle of nowhere NC." Every wedding I've ever attended had RSVP cards. Didn't have a bit of trouble getting them back for my own wedding either.

 

(Not saying I don't believe you -- just that these folks shouldn't get away with blaming their own lack of manners on their location!)

 

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It definitely is not a Southern thing. I was taught to RSVP. Very old South weddings eschewed RSVP cards until fairly recently. RSVP went on the invite, and the invitee was supposed to write a formal note in response. And, gasp, address and stamp it herself! ;)

 

I've never heard of such craziness!

 

When I got married to a Georgia boy in 1995 there was some discussion with his mother about RSVP cards.  She felt they were not required, even borderline rude, because everyone knew that an invitation required a response, and the response would be written on monogrammed note cards and mailed promptly.  (Everyone had monogrammed note cards!)

 

Since we were getting married in California and few southerners were invited, we went with response cards.

 

We had to chase down responses from our California friends. 

 

Not a southern problem, nor a new one.  But rudeness just the same.

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None of these people are from rural areas either except one set of grandparents who aren't coming (and we are glad) and one of the groomsmen. There are several people on that side I would understand waiting to decide- people with serious medical issues who may or may not be able to come.  I get that.  The rest of the people live in regular towns and cities- like suburbs of Jackson, the capitol.  They tend to be less educated than the people we are inviting here on average and clueless about some aspects of modern life- like someone saw that my dd liked Match.com since that is how she and her fiance met and not understanding the way Facebook likes got the totally wacky idea that she must be looking for new guys.  She was on Match.com for all of a week, I think, when she met her fiance and by the second week, they were a pair.  But that is the kind of ignorance they are up against. 

 

WHat I have seen is photos from two different weddings that my dd and her fiance attended in that general area- at least one of those weddings was held at a rented mansion place with a carriage and horses and they had a sit down dinner-  how do you do place setttings and name cards on the tables if you don't know who is coming?  I just don't understand ,

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Not RSVPing is a big pet peeve of mine. It annoys me to not know who is and isn't coming to a kid's birthday party, let alone a wedding!

Me too! I don't think its regional, so much as bad manners. I only got married 3 years ago and I was shocked how many people I had to chase down. One even told me she was just too busy... This girl is on facebook all.the.time. And I stamped and addressed the darn thing. Too busy! Ugh.

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Tess in the Burbs wrote "I was raised in the south and married in the south. You reply to those cards!!! We ran out of food at my wedding reception due to several guests showing up assuming I would expect them"

 

That is exactly what I don't want.  We went with a very good caterer in town and chose a more expensive menu simply because I really wanted to make the reception food very good for all the Huntsville friends we have here and want to thank for their wholehearted support for our family with all of our medical issues over these last few years.  I really dread running out of food but don't want to overdo it either since the food is expensive.  Yes, I am going to find out who told her this malarkey about the so-called Southern tradition of rudeness and then help her figure out how to get phone numbers or email addresses for these people.

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I just think it's rude.  How long can it possibly take to check a box, put the card in the pre-stamped and addressed envelope, and walk to to the mailbox?  People think that if they reply no that they have to have a good reason. Nope- you're just looking to plan your event, not badger guests about why they aren't attending.  

 

I've always understood that if invited to a wedding, a gift should be sent, whether you attend or not.  So I wonder if these 'non responders' are in the camp of 'I'm not sending a gift unless I go'.  (Obviously if I send a wedding invitation to the Obamas they should not feel obligated to send a gift. But family and friends, yeah, they usually do)

 

 

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WHat I have seen is photos from two different weddings that my dd and her fiance attended in that general area- at least one of those weddings was held at a rented mansion place with a carriage and horses and they had a sit down dinner-  how do you do place setttings and name cards on the tables if you don't know who is coming?  I just don't understand ,

 

Exactly! That is what I am talking about! You have to be able to plan table seatings and tell your cater your final numbers and have enough wedding programs and such.

 

But the fact that these people thought it was something for them to keep, when it had a stamp on a printed, addressed envelope blew me away.  Some acted like they had never seen a "Love" stamp before commenting on that. Just all so weird.

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My dd is getting married in less than a month.  She sent save the date cards in early fall to many people and sent actual invitations in late Nov.  She sent an invitation, a reply card and a stamped self addressed envelope.  She has started to get responses and she has about 50 so far.  People from other areas of the country and from right here are sending yes or no responses, as would be expected.  On the other hand, she has been told by the MS  side that in the South, people don;t do RSVP and she shouldn't expect responses.   Those people have to travel anywhere from 4 to 6 hours to get here so this is not a spur of the moment trip.  SHe thinks we should just not expect them and not worry about it.  Now since we are not having a sit down dinner, it is a bit less urgent- but only a bit.  We are having heavy hors d'oeuvres and the cakes, of course and the cost of the food and cakes are the costliest parts of the entire wedding.  We don't need numbers until 3 days before when I am bringing the check to the caterer.   But I don't want the ugly surprise that people don't say yes and then appear.  I know we will get some more food than the actual number but at over 20 a head, I am not interested in paying lots more for people who aren't going to be there or even worse, having people go hungry because rudeniks who never responded suddenly show up.

 

So is this some real Southern tradition that I know nothing about, is it a so called polite way of saying no, or is it just that side's weirdness?  Or something else all together.  What I really don't get is I have heard of all the problems with people not getting responses but I never heard of people responding I may come or I probably won't or these type of responses she is actually getting.

 

Whichever Southerner told her that is wrong. W.R.O.N.G. The rest of us Southerners are horrified.

 

Y'all may have to make phone calls. 

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It is a modern day phenomenon, not a Southern thing. Not RSVPing is rampant, but I think it is a product of our texting, FBing, do tings on a whim society. That said, it is still rude to not reply in some fashion when people are trying to plan for food and such. I liked the suggestion of emailing people with a deadline to respond for catering reasons.

This. It's a generational issue, not a regional one. Annoying and rude regardless.

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It's just rudeness.  I usually leave some key piece of info off an invite (like exact place - I'll just put the city, for example) so that if a person plans on coming, they'll have to call for more specifics.  It allows me to circumvent the rude non-responders.

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LOL!  My Dh and I had this discussion before our wedding; I didn't want the RSVP cards because I thought they were lame because everyone should know to write their response out.  That was a funny convo!

When I got married to a Georgia boy in 1995 there was some discussion with his mother about RSVP cards.  She felt they were not required, even borderline rude, because everyone knew that an invitation required a response, and the response would be written on monogrammed note cards and mailed promptly.  (Everyone had monogrammed note cards!)

 

Since we were getting married in California and few southerners were invited, we went with response cards.

 

We had to chase down responses from our California friends. 

 

Not a southern problem, nor a new one.  But rudeness just the same.

 

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Well, I think it silly to invite more than you can afford to attend but I am from the south and I would RSVP grudgingly. I hate having to commit. Especially with four kids. I never know if DH can get time off or we can locate accommodation for the kids.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a southern thing to NOT RSVP...actually, I think Southerners hold a higher opinion of social etiquette than other regions.

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As a transplant to the South, I have come across both the expectation of wanting RSVP's and the frustration of not getting them. Most of my social acquaintances are themselves transplants and want to be able to plan events, and frequently don't get responses from either other transplants or those native to the area. So I tend to think it is more a modern problem.

 

When my stepson and sDIL got married last year, they got relatively few responses, even though they sent stamped response cards. They did run short of food and seating, because almost everyone they invited actually showed up. Most of the guests were local to the area and good friends and relatives of the bride. Very frustrating.

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Well, I think it silly to invite more than you can afford to attend but I am from the south and I would RSVP grudgingly. I hate having to commit. Especially with four kids. I never know if DH can get time off or we can locate accommodation for the kids.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a southern thing to NOT RSVP...actually, I think Southerners hold a higher opinion of social etiquette than other regions.

Who invited more than they could afford to feed?

 

The OP stated that she didn't want to order more food than needed.

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Who invited more than they could afford to feed?

 

The OP stated that she didn't want to order more food than needed.

Oh I wasn't implying that.. I suppose my remark is in regards to me holding a grudge about a party I helped host, too many were invited, not enough food nor chairs provided after I advised we up the counts and was told nah they won't all show up. No one ever has everyone show up to these things... every one showed up plus extras at this occasion.

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Well, I think it silly to invite more than you can afford to attend but I am from the south and I would RSVP grudgingly. I hate having to commit. Especially with four kids. I never know if DH can get time off or we can locate accommodation for the kids.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a southern thing to NOT RSVP...actually, I think Southerners hold a higher opinion of social etiquette than other regions.

 

So, for a formal occasion, one that requires a headcount in advance, you have to just say no.   I used to decline a lot of invitations that, as it turned out, I could have accepted, but the hosts needed to know if I was coming before I could commit.   Bummer, but sometimes necessary. 

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13 years ago I helped run a wedding a NC. We had to call most of the groom's side and their parents to get responses.  Most of them said they thought the response card was a momento for them to keep, especially because it had the "Love" stamps on the return envelope! I was like WHAT????  The groom said his mother said that was just how it was in the middle of nowhere NC.  I can't for the life of me understand how anyone is expected to plan a wedding like that. 

 

 

The very traditional normal southern wedding was a reception in the church's activity room, often with just cake, punch (non-alcoholic), and maybe peanuts and mints.  If there was other food it was provided by church members, friends and families.  Many of these were open invitations, in that everyone in the church was invited.   It could see if someone came from such a background, that maybe then they would think they would not need to reply.

 

I do think that today, these sorts of weddings are now few and far between.  But I have been to one where the bride made her own sausage balls the morning of her wedding!

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Please.  I was married in 1990.  My mom was from a podunk town in the middle of Nowhere, NC and still had tons of family there.  We sent RSVP cards with our invitation, even though Mom said that her family would be fine with writing out their own RSVPs.  They had the Love Stamp, back in those days too!  And we happily attached one to each return envelope.

 

Every single invite from the NC relatives was returned and every single one had a handwritten message, along with the response.  It was the other side of the family [from a midwest state which shall remain nameless because I don't believe where they lived had anything to do with their rudeness] that we had to track down and force into giving us a yes or no about the invite.

 

It's generational.  Fewer and fewer children are raised knowing what we considered proper etiquette a few decades ago.  And they "pass on" that lack of knowledge to their children.  And so on....and so on....

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Well, I think it silly to invite more than you can afford to attend but I am from the south and I would RSVP grudgingly. I hate having to commit. Especially with four kids. I never know if DH can get time off or we can locate accommodation for the kids.

 

Anyway, I don't think it's a southern thing to NOT RSVP...actually, I think Southerners hold a higher opinion of social etiquette than other regions.

 

Seriously?

 

The OP didn't invite more people than she could afford. She wants to know how many people are coming so she can feed them. 

 

It is your obligation to RSVP to an event to which you have been invited. To RSVP is to let the hostess know whether you can come, or whether you can not come (some people think they only have to respond if they are not coming). If you are not able to commit in advance, then you decline the invitation. It is often thus when we have young children or inflexible schedules.

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The number of people who RSVP to any event, wedding or not, has become a caterer's nightmare. DD's best friend got married on a rainy July weekend and about thirty people showed up who decided to cancel their plans at the beach to come now that it was raining???? WTH? In that case the mom ran to Costco and picked up some more veggie/ cheese plates really quick, since Costco was very close to the church. In that case there was no caterer, but most people, like the OP, order some extra food to compensate for the guests who they know to be flakes, and usually the caterer brings some extra too, they just don't tell the guest so that expecting something for free doesn't become the norm. Sometimes the caterer is drowning in food because of this, and sometimes they still scramble and call people from the home base to bring more food.

 

The other thing that has changed since I began catering is that people used to let a host know about being gluten free/ deadly nut allergies, ect, but now they mostly show up and expect to be accommodated with no advance warning, which we do, but keeping an extra chef for this cuts into the bottom line of the event horribly, but no one thinks of that.

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The number of people who RSVP to any event, wedding or not, has become a caterer's nightmare. DD's best friend got married on a rainy July weekend and about thirty people showed up who decided to cancel their plans at the beach to come now that it was raining???? WTH? In that case the mom ran to Costco and picked up some more veggie/ cheese plates really quick, since Costco was very close to the church. In that case there was no caterer, but most people, like the OP, order some extra food to compensate for the guests who they know to be flakes, and usually the caterer brings some extra too, they just don't tell the guest so that expecting something for free doesn't become the norm. Sometimes the caterer is drowning in food because of this, and sometimes they still scramble and call people from the home base to bring more food.

 

The other thing that has changed since I began catering is that people used to let a host know about being gluten free/ deadly nut allergies, ect, but now they mostly show up and expect to be accommodated with no advance warning, which we do, but keeping an extra chef for this cuts into the bottom line of the event horribly, but no one thinks of that.

 

I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your posts on this and similar topics. You bring a perspective that I just don't think about, not being in that line.  I agree with you here (well, pretty much always) and empathize with the difficulties you and other caterers/hospitality people encounter.

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I just think it's rude.  How long can it possibly take to check a box, put the card in the pre-stamped and addressed envelope, and walk to to the mailbox?  People think that if they reply no that they have to have a good reason. Nope- you're just looking to plan your event, not badger guests about why they aren't attending.  

 

I've always understood that if invited to a wedding, a gift should be sent, whether you attend or not.  So I wonder if these 'non responders' are in the camp of 'I'm not sending a gift unless I go'.  (Obviously if I send a wedding invitation to the Obamas they should not feel obligated to send a gift. But family and friends, yeah, they usually do)

 

Honestly, I do not believe an invitation to anything obligates me to a gift. I'll RSVP, because I understand the planning. But I firmly reject the idea that an invitation obligates to anything more.

 

(I was married nearly 11 years ago. Even then brides bemoaned that RSVPs were not returned. I don't remember sending stamps on the RSVP cards. But I gave several ways to get a hold of me to respond, AND I called those I had not heard from (luckily I had contact information beyond addresses for all of them) AND I wasn't having a catered dinner so it wasn't catastrophic to have a few drop ins.  I was more concerned about someone who didn't get an invitation but had a grudge deciding to drop in and crash the party.

 

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Well, I think it silly to invite more than you can afford to attend but I am from the south and I would RSVP grudgingly. I hate having to commit. Especially with four kids. I never know if DH can get time off or we can locate accommodation for the kids.

 

If one's circumstances don't allow a reasonable certainty of being able to actually attend, then I can't imagine why one would not just go ahead and decline the invitation before the deadline. We had to do a lot of declining when my daughter was younger precisely because of uncertain childcare situations, uncertain finances, or other reasons.

 

As an aside, unfortunately I have found the "I hate having to commit" to run rampant even in the South, at least in the homeschooling community, not just for formal occasions, but for just about everything---field trips, meetings, activities, etc. Also unfortunately, many of those who say that don't seem to realize that being unable or unwilling to commit to attending (barring an emergency) equates to committing to not participating rather than to showing up if nothing better comes along or if they decide that morning they "feel like" going after all. Personally, I hate trying to plan activities when so many people refuse to commit to attendance but still expect to be able to participate at the last minute (and get mad when told they can't), so I am no longer willing to commit to planning activities for our homeschool group. 

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I just think it's rude.  How long can it possibly take to check a box, put the card in the pre-stamped and addressed envelope, and walk to to the mailbox?  People think that if they reply no that they have to have a good reason. Nope- you're just looking to plan your event, not badger guests about why they aren't attending.  

 

I've always understood that if invited to a wedding, a gift should be sent, whether you attend or not.  So I wonder if these 'non responders' are in the camp of 'I'm not sending a gift unless I go'.  (Obviously if I send a wedding invitation to the Obamas they should not feel obligated to send a gift. But family and friends, yeah, they usually do)

I think checking the box and mailing the card is the easy part. Most people don't want to do the mental work to COMMIT to an event. Ya know...the tough stuff like saying you will be somewhere, writing it on the calendar, then making arrangements for proper childcare, clothing, and transportation so you can arrive at the proper time. Really, it's just so much work to be invited. I don't know how people manage it. ;)

 

We host a kinda big holiday party each year...it's such fun to guess who will show up without having RSVPed....at least if someone tells me they will come, I can usually count on them.

 

To me, the real reason people don't RSVP is because they are looking for a 'better' invite somewhere along the way.... Sigh.

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The very traditional normal southern wedding was a reception in the church's activity room, often with just cake, punch (non-alcoholic), and maybe peanuts and mints.  If there was other food it was provided by church members, friends and families.  Many of these were open invitations, in that everyone in the church was invited.   It could see if someone came from such a background, that maybe then they would think they would not need to reply.

 

I do think that today, these sorts of weddings are now few and far between.  But I have been to one where the bride made her own sausage balls the morning of her wedding!

 

This was my wedding, except we had heavy hors d'oeuvres. And we did give an open invitation to the entire congregation, which was read from the pulpit. Probably less than 5 people came because of that. We did not expect RSVPs from that invite. Having grown up in that (small) church, it seemed the best thing to do. Actually it was my dad who insisted.

 

We did send cards to those whom we personally invited. Every one of those, as far as I can remember, was returned. This was in 2000.

 

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I just think it's rude.  How long can it possibly take to check a box, put the card in the pre-stamped and addressed envelope, and walk to to the mailbox?  People think that if they reply no that they have to have a good reason. Nope- you're just looking to plan your event, not badger guests about why they aren't attending.  

 

I've always understood that if invited to a wedding, a gift should be sent, whether you attend or not.  So I wonder if these 'non responders' are in the camp of 'I'm not sending a gift unless I go'.  (Obviously if I send a wedding invitation to the Obamas they should not feel obligated to send a gift. But family and friends, yeah, they usually do)

 

No, you are not obligated to send a gift merely because you have been invited. People give gifts because they love the happy couple and want to bless them; presumably they would send a gifts whether they were invited or not.

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Back in the dark ages, I sent RSVP cards with wedding invitations. However, I didn't track down people who didn't send them back, I just assumed they weren't coming. It really didn't occur to me to track them down. I talked to the caterer, told her the number of "yes" responses, she asked how many hadn't returned the cards and I gave her that number as well. She had a bit of extra food on hand in case anyone who didn't respond showed up. 

 

ETA: I agree with others that not responding isn't a "southern thing."

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Born, raised, and still live in the South.  Not sending an RSVP for any event is very rude.  It drives me crazy.

 

When I got married to a Georgia boy in 1995 there was some discussion with his mother about RSVP cards.  She felt they were not required, even borderline rude, because everyone knew that an invitation required a response, and the response would be written on monogrammed note cards and mailed promptly.  (Everyone had monogrammed note cards!)

 

Since we were getting married in California and few southerners were invited, we went with response cards.

 

We had to chase down responses from our California friends. 

 

Not a southern problem, nor a new one.  But rudeness just the same.

This made me laugh.  I did not send RSVP cards with my wedding invites in 1997 because everyone knows to send hand written responses on monogrammed notecards to a formal event.  I received monogrammed notecards with my new name as a wedding gift.

 

Now as a mom of four I am thankful for the cards that you just check and put in the mail.  My notecards sit in a box in my closet.

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Oh I wasn't implying that.. I suppose my remark is in regards to me holding a grudge about a party I helped host, too many were invited, not enough food nor chairs provided after I advised we up the counts and was told nah they won't all show up. No one ever has everyone show up to these things... every one showed up plus extras at this occasion.

I understand. Sorry I jumped on you.
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