Brittany Maynard

[Elisabet1]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/brittany-maynard-advocate-death-dignity-ends-life/story?id=26644431

 

I have been crying over her story and following it for a little while. Anyone else?

[Excelsior! Academy]

Nm

[Jamee]

I believe that is why she moved to Oregon.  I don't know, having seen family members suffer while their loved one suffered at the end of a terminal illness, I would think her family is more at peace.  They saw her as she was/is; got to say good-bye on good terms.  This should be a legal option for those who want it.

[Annie G]

I'm sad that her life was so short. It's not a decision I think I could/would make but I respect her choice.  I have a dear friend dying of lung cancer (she never smoked) and the past year has been absolutely awful for her and her family.   She has no control over anything and her cancer is everywhere now. Head, spine, lungs, hips, etc.  So I can kind of understand that there might come a point where she'd rather choose how and when to exit this world.  

 

 

[bodiesmom]

I've been following as well....horribly heartbreaking. :-(

[Meadowlark]

I've been following too and just watched a video of her on her website. It was heartbreaking. I kind of wonder though...she was diagnosed in April and given 6 months to live. So she lived 7 and I wonder why she didn't decide to keep going, but I guess I don't know her pain level or how the cancer was affecting her. She seemed like such a lover of life though, so sad.

[poppy]

What a horrible story.  

 

I respect her. I respect people who choose to fight to the last breath. Mostly I feel terrible for anyone facing a terminal diagnosis that young.  It's wretched and not fair.  I don't think she has any children, and that is....  well, not good, not bad, but it does make the decision a little easier.  I guess.  As if that kind of decision is ever easy.  Oh, it's just awful to think about.  I hope she is at peace, and her family is given space to mourn. I hope her decision to be very public about her choice helps someone else in some way.  That would be the silver lining, I guess.

 

[Mimm]

I would do it. I can't believe how many people are bashing her and calling her selfish or cowardly. It truly nauseates me that someone could speak that way about someone who simply didn't want to suffer horribly. She didn't kill herself with 50 years to live. She deserves to be allowed to make this decision for herself and I'm glad she had family that supported her. I'm so sorry for their loss.

[Word Nerd]

I've been following too and just watched a video of her on her website. It was heartbreaking. I kind of wonder though...she was diagnosed in April and given 6 months to live. So she lived 7 and I wonder why she didn't decide to keep going, but I guess I don't know her pain level or how the cancer was affecting her. She seemed like such a lover of life though, so sad.

 

She was having more frequent and longer seizures, in pain, and getting sicker. 

 

It's a very sad story. 

[goldberry]

Very sad.  Something I remembered reading that was interesting (not looking for it right now though) is that many of the people who apply (?) for the medical suicide option in states where it is legal, don't end up using it.  It is something that gives them back control of the situation, and actually enables them to be more at peace with what is going on.  The fear is not of dying, but of dying in pain or in horrible conditions.

 

My personal stance is that whatever means necessary to alleviate pain and fear is right to be given to a terminal person, even if that ends up shortening their life by suppressing other body functions.  I don't think that is the same as an intentional step to end life, although the result may well be the same.  I say this from a Christian viewpoint also, for frame of reference.  

[Catwoman]

Personally, I think it took tremendous courage to do what she did. It's one thing to know the option is available and even to have the drugs on hand, but to actually follow through and do it must have been so difficult for her, no matter how sick she was or how much pain she was in.

 

Her story is absolutely heartbreaking. I hope she is at peace.

[regentrude]

It is very sad.

I do not think a person should be forced to suffer for the "greater good" or because some outside entity decides so.

I consider it a fundamental right to be in control of the end of my life. That should be between any person and her conscience or, should she believe in one, her God.

It is not for society to judge or enforce. It is presumptuous to sentence a human to suffering just to uphold some "principle".

[LucyStoner]

Very sad. Something I remembered reading that was interesting (not looking for it right now though) is that many of the people who apply (?) for the medical suicide option in states where it is legal, don't end up using it. It is something that gives them back control of the situation, and actually enables them to be more at peace with what is going on. The fear is not of dying, but of dying in pain or in horrible conditions.

In Oregon, about 1/3 of patients who fill this prescription do not use it. In Washington, where the law is more recent, it is about the same IIRC. Also, in Oregon the average patient is 70-71 years of age and cancer is far and away the most common precipitating diagnosis.

 

I do not know about other states. I think there are only a few states with this law. I think it is WA, Oregon, Vermont and a third western state (maybe Montana? It sounds like something Montana voters would support.)

[Jkacz]

Until you watch a loved one struggle to take their last breath, you can never truly understand.

 

My father was was diagnosed with stage 4 kidney cancer about 4 years ago. He went through multiple surgeries, drug trials, and by the end was on so much pain medication it was unbelievable. It still didn't completely control his pain and the side effects (constipation, etc) were just as bad as the pain from the cancer. At the end, about 2 years ago, he was in hospice where he went downhill fast. The doctors were having trouble keeping up with his pain because they could only up his pain medication by x amount per hour by law. Their hands were tied. As my mother, sister and I sat by his side, we watched him actively die for hours. His breathing became shallower and shallower, with every breathe taking longer to come. It was actually a blessing not to watch him suffer when his time finally came. All I could think of is that we don't let an animal suffer like that, but we in this country allow humans to do so.

 

I only share my family's story because I think I understand what this young girl was trying to avoid. When death is inevitable and life is no longer worth living because the pain is unbearable, who are we to judge or determine what the right course of action is?

[Frances]

It is very sad.

I do not think a person should be forced to suffer for the "greater good" or because some outside entity decides so.

I consider it a fundamental right to be in control of the end of my life. That should be between any person and her conscience or, should she believe in one, her God.

It is not for society to judge or enforce. It is presumptuous to sentence a human to suffering just to uphold some "principle".

 

I agree. I also don't understand why people who are opposed to this for religious reasons want to take the choice away from other people who don't share their religious beliefs. I recently returned from a visit to my extended family, and all of the Catholic medical professionals in my family are very upset about the church's public opposition to Brittany's actions and campaigns to defeat death with dignity laws in other states. While they think it's fine for the church to try and discourage their own members from following this path, they are very against the church trying to affect the rights of others who are not Catholic.  

[VeteranMom]

I've been following the blog Mundane Faithfulness.  She lives in my city and she is dying of breast cancer that has spread throughout her body.  She responded to Brittany's announcement (about taking her own life) last month and responded today, too.  

I really don't know what I believe with this stuff anymore.  I understand suffering and have witnessed it, since I've worked in healthcare and have had numerous family members die of cancer.  I know it's not easy and don't take the suffering lightly.  

My big concern is I'd worry about this becoming a slippery slope.  In Europe, elderly people are being given this medicine even when not suffering from a terminal diagnosis.  That's disturbing that we can't even take care of our elderly and that they feel like they need to kill themselves when they become a burden and are no longer useful to society.                

[Jamee]

 

My big concern is I'd worry about this becoming a slippery slope.  In Europe, elderly people are being given this medicine even when not suffering from a terminal diagnosis.  That's disturbing that we can't even take care of our elderly and that they feel like they need to kill themselves when they become a burden and are no longer useful to society.                

 

I find this very hard to believe.

[SKL]

This has been happening forever.  The difference is that in this case it was legal and public.

 

I think our country is confused about life and dignity.

 

I support her right to do this under the circumstances, but I don't like the way she became a spectacle.

[Frances]

This has been happening forever.  The difference is that in this case it was legal and public.

 

I think our country is confused about life and dignity.

 

I support her right to do this under the circumstances, but I don't like the way she became a spectacle.

 

But she was trying to raise awareness about this important issue and encourage the passage of death with dignity laws in other states. People have been prosecuted for assisting others where this is not legal. I greatly admire how she spent her last few months. Bringing the issue to public attention and sparking discussion is needed for change to happen.

[MomtoCandJ]

I hope her and her family are at peace. I think it should be a choice any one should be able to make. The people bashing her mustn't have any idea what it's like to watch someone suffer like that, let alone go through it themselves.

[aggieamy]

Sad.  Just an all around sad story.

 

My heart hurts for her family.  

[Mrs Mungo]

My big concern is I'd worry about this becoming a slippery slope. In Europe, elderly people are being given this medicine even when not suffering from a terminal diagnosis. That's disturbing that we can't even take care of our elderly and that they feel like they need to kill themselves when they become a burden and are no longer useful to society.

http://m.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/the-dutch-euthanize-their-elderly-and-other-scary-gop-lies-about-europe/254462/

[Mrs Mungo]

This has been happening forever. The difference is that in this case it was legal and public.

 

I think our country is confused about life and dignity.

 

I support her right to do this under the circumstances, but I don't like the way she became a spectacle.

Considering how many people fight against dying with dignity laws, I don't blame those who wish to present their reasons to the public.

[Mimm]

This has been happening forever.  The difference is that in this case it was legal and public.

 

I think our country is confused about life and dignity.

 

I support her right to do this under the circumstances, but I don't like the way she became a spectacle.

 

I think she intentionally spent her last months raising awareness for a cause she suddenly found herself caring a lot about. I doubt many people have a position on legal assisted suicide, but because of her, a lot of people have started to think about it. And she's young and pretty of course. I doubt she'd get near as much attention if she were in her 80s.

[TeacherZee]

I've been following the blog Mundane Faithfulness.  She lives in my city and she is dying of breast cancer that has spread throughout her body.  She responded to Brittany's announcement (about taking her own life) last month and responded today, too.  

I really don't know what I believe with this stuff anymore.  I understand suffering and have witnessed it, since I've worked in healthcare and have had numerous family members die of cancer.  I know it's not easy and don't take the suffering lightly.  

My big concern is I'd worry about this becoming a slippery slope.  In Europe, elderly people are being given this medicine even when not suffering from a terminal diagnosis.  That's disturbing that we can't even take care of our elderly and that they feel like they need to kill themselves when they become a burden and are no longer useful to society.                

 

Could I please see some proof of this. In addition saying that this is happening in Europe is like saying that all states in the US do something.

 

I've worked in elder care in Europe and we certainly did not do anything of the sort. They might stop treatment for cancer if it was terminal and we certainly gave them painkillers but nothing active.

[Mrs Mungo]

Could I please see some proof of this. In addition saying that this is happening in Europe is like saying that all states in the US do something.

 

I've worked in elder care in Europe and we certainly did not do anything of the sort. They might stop treatment for cancer if it was terminal and we certainly gave them painkillers but nothing active.

The link I posted in reply to that post explains how certain candidates have been flat out lying about this issue.

[creekland]

I would do it. I can't believe how many people are bashing her and calling her selfish or cowardly. It truly nauseates me that someone could speak that way about someone who simply didn't want to suffer horribly. She didn't kill herself with 50 years to live. She deserves to be allowed to make this decision for herself and I'm glad she had family that supported her. I'm so sorry for their loss.

 

I would do it too and my family knows this.  I don't give a hoot if it's legal or not to be honest.  It's my decision, not any gov't entity.  No grand pumba of the universe gave a human-made gov't that right to decide about my life.  Period.  I'm not even sure how far I'd let things go.  I guess it would be a decision made when I'm in that spot.

 

It is very sad.

I do not think a person should be forced to suffer for the "greater good" or because some outside entity decides so.

I consider it a fundamental right to be in control of the end of my life. That should be between any person and her conscience or, should she believe in one, her God.

It is not for society to judge or enforce. It is presumptuous to sentence a human to suffering just to uphold some "principle".

 

I'm a fairly conservative Christian and don't feel God would expel me from heaven over such a decision.  I see nowhere in the Bible where it says living until your last breath regardless of pain (or anything else) is a requirement to go through the Pearly Gates.

 

But still, if others believe otherwise, they can make that decision for THEMSELVES.

 

I only share my family's story because I think I understand what this young girl was trying to avoid. When death is inevitable and life is no longer worth living because the pain is unbearable, who are we to judge or determine what the right course of action is?

 

I see my grandmother and others in her nursing home.  That is NOT going to be the end of my life.  I don't care how many people feel it should be if I don't die naturally by some other cause.  It wouldn't matter to me if I were 19 or 99.  Once life is beyond what "I" want out of it, I feel free to consider my options.  (I also feel intelligent enough to beware of mere depression should it hit - and would trust my close family on that one.)

 

I'm not sure what mindset some (many?) people have that they feel they have rights to make these sorts of decisions for others.  

[bettyandbob]

I've been following too and just watched a video of her on her website. It was heartbreaking. I kind of wonder though...she was diagnosed in April and given 6 months to live. So she lived 7 and I wonder why she didn't decide to keep going, but I guess I don't know her pain level or how the cancer was affecting her. She seemed like such a lover of life though, so sad.

 

If you have been following her story, she stated that her seizures were getting longer, more painful and she was having longer periods where she was not able to respond. She talked about being conscious and not knowing how to say her husband's name. She said the longer she waited the more chance there would be that she wouldn't be able to make the choice at all because she wouldn't be able to physically do things for herself.

[bettyandbob]

 

I support her right to do this under the circumstances, but I don't like the way she became a spectacle.

 

"becoming a spectacle" was her goal. She wasn't a circus act, but she brought attention to an issue very important to her.

 

She wanted to raise awareness about death with dignity. Her family had to move for her to have this right. She probably would have preferred to stay closer to her home. She was aware that because she was young her story would get more attention than that of an older person making the choice.

[TeacherZee]

The link I posted in reply to that post explains how certain candidates have been flat out lying about this issue.

 

I read that, and it is why I want proof...I don't believe it is happening but far to many in the US believe it is happening.

[JFSinIL]

After watching a neighbor, young mother of three, suffer through end stage colon cancer and hang onto the last moment for the sake of her kids and husband - I can understand more why my MIL, when given the same diagnosis in her eighties, decided to use chemo just long enough to get my FIL settled into a retirement home...then refused further treatment and let nature take its (swift) course.  Some ends are too lingering and painful and if folks are going to die anyway from a terminal event, let THEM decide when and how, not a horrific disease.

[JFSinIL]

"becoming a spectacle" was her goal. She wasn't a circus act, but she brought attention to an issue very important to her.

 

She wanted to raise awareness about death with dignity. Her family had to move for her to have this right. She probably would have preferred to stay closer to her home. She was aware that because she was young her story would get more attention than that of an older person making the choice.

 

If being a spectacle and raising awareness about the need for death with dignity gave her ANY small amount of comfort and purpose  in this horrific situation, then good.  Wishes of the dying trump any bystanders feelings. 

 

I

[Momof3littles]

My cousin died a horrific death from the same form of brain cancer (glioblastoma multiforme).  My cousin's husband shared with her mother some of the details, and it was truly a painful, horrifying end to her life.  I think he had some PTSD from the experience and that's why he shared; I think he needed to process what he experienced.  Her mother would rather have not known and is still haunted by those details.

I support someone's right to die with dignity.

[sunflowerlady]

May she rest in peace.

 

I support her decision completely. I can also say that I think everyone should have the same option. I could totally see myself making this decision under similar circumstances.

[Luckymama]

I would absolutely make the same decision.

[nansk]

I am not sure how I would cope with such a difficult decision, but I feel strongly that every person should have the right and freedom to decide what path to take for themselves. No one else should oppose or criticize such a deeply personal decision or call the person a coward for deciding differently.

[SKL]

"becoming a spectacle" was her goal. She wasn't a circus act, but she brought attention to an issue very important to her.

 

She wanted to raise awareness about death with dignity. Her family had to move for her to have this right. She probably would have preferred to stay closer to her home. She was aware that because she was young her story would get more attention than that of an older person making the choice.

 

The problem I have with it is that it set up a situation where people were morbidly monitoring the situation, i.e., "is she dead yet?  Is she dead yet?"  Yuck.

[marbel]

What can anyone say other than how sad it is?   I hope she and her family are at peace. I do wish people would just stop with the moral judgments of "brave" or "cowardly."  We (general we) characterize people who fight to the end as brave too.    The word becomes meaningless, just something to say to make people feel better.   It's just sad. 

 

I honestly don't know how I feel about assisted suicide.  I lived in Oregon when it became law.  There were a lot of terrible stories; I remember one about a man with a small child who was considering it, and I remember wondering at the time if that would affect his life insurance (if he had any).  What a mundane thought.  But I have also known of people who have far exceeded the doctors' predictions for length and quality of life.  So I just don't know.

[Elisabet1]

I would do it. I can't believe how many people are bashing her and calling her selfish or cowardly. It truly nauseates me that someone could speak that way about someone who simply didn't want to suffer horribly. She didn't kill herself with 50 years to live. She deserves to be allowed to make this decision for herself and I'm glad she had family that supported her. I'm so sorry for their loss.

I don't think she is selfish or cowardly at all. I am guessing that the same people that called Robin Williams suicide fine as calling hers, which really was not suicide in my mind (she was dying already) terrible. 

 

My only concern was that she set a date. It seems to make more sense to wait until she feels it is time because things have gotten to that point. But I do think that is what she did in the end. I just feel awful that she lost her life. I look at her wedding pictures and her and I can just imagine that she would be my own daughter and how awful it would be to lose her.

[DawnM]

I hadn't considered this.

 

My DH's grandfather was dying of cancer.  He had about a month left to live.  He got into a car accident and died from that a month before he most likely would have died of cancer.

 

It turned out that because the death was "accidental," Dh's grandmother ended up with a large settlement she would not have gotten otherwise.

 

In another note, my uncle died in Oregon in the 80s.  The cause of his death was finalized as "unknown" and some of his insurance companies refused to pay out saying they thought it could be suicide.  I don't know the outcome of all of that as they didn't like to talk about it.

 

Dawn

 

 

What can anyone say other than how sad it is?   I hope she and her family are at peace. I do wish people would just stop with the moral judgments of "brave" or "cowardly."  We (general we) characterize people who fight to the end as brave too.    The word becomes meaningless, just something to say to make people feel better.   It's just sad. 

 

I honestly don't know how I feel about assisted suicide.  I lived in Oregon when it became law.  There were a lot of terrible stories; I remember one about a man with a small child who was considering it, and I remember wondering at the time if that would affect his life insurance (if he had any).  What a mundane thought.  But I have also known of people who have far exceeded the doctors' predictions for length and quality of life.  So I just don't know.

 

[Chris in VA]

It is so sad.

 

I just have random thoughts--

 

I'm a Christian, but unlike some other dear Christians, I do not believe my life is my own; I have yielded my right to myself to God. So, I don't think I would kill myself. I've been suicidal in the past due to depression, and that is different, but the idea of not wanting to suffer is the same. I just came to a different conclusion.

 

I am not sure there is any more dignity in planning and following thru with one's own death. Or, better, I'm not sure that there is LESS dignity, true dignity, in living all one's given days. I don't think of being incontinent or on a feeding tube or unable to swallow, or all the "yucky" messy stuff people go thru in end-stage disease as "lacking dignity." So I guess I define it differently.

 

I sure do feel for her family.

 

And I'm not judging her--I'm really not. I hope she is at peace, and I don't know what I would do in her situation--probably not what she did, but I can't say for sure.

 

Lastly, I don't see her actions as quite the same as someone who stops their own treatment and dies a natural death.

[goldberry]

I've been following the blog Mundane Faithfulness.  She lives in my city and she is dying of breast cancer that has spread throughout her body.  She responded to Brittany's announcement (about taking her own life) last month and responded today, too. 

 

This woman's posts are beautiful and eloquent.  

 

I just don't know that I agree with her stance that others should make the same choice.  She believes her death will have beauty.  Not everyone feels that way, or reaches that same conclusion, even as a Christian.

[Ipsey]

I'm so grateful to Ms Maynard and her bravery in opening herself and her choices up to criticism at a very difficult time of her life to elevate autonomy and a view of human dignity that is shunned in so many ways.

 

I know I want the same opportunity she had should I ever need it.

 

She spent her last days bringing this important idea into the light in a way that's never been done before. 

 

I am so, so grateful to her and profoundly sad for her family's suffering from a horrible illness.

 

 

[Kim in Appalachia]

It is so sad.

 

I just have random thoughts--

 

I'm a Christian, but unlike some other dear Christians, I do not believe my life is my own; I have yielded my right to myself to God. So, I don't think I would kill myself. I've been suicidal in the past due to depression, and that is different, but the idea of not wanting to suffer is the same. I just came to a different conclusion.

 

I am not sure there is any more dignity in planning and following thru with one's own death. Or, better, I'm not sure that there is LESS dignity, true dignity, in living all one's given days. I don't think of being incontinent or on a feeding tube or unable to swallow, or all the "yucky" messy stuff people go thru in end-stage disease as "lacking dignity." So I guess I define it differently.

 

I sure do feel for her family.

 

And I'm not judging her--I'm really not. I hope she is at peace, and I don't know what I would do in her situation--probably not what she did, but I can't say for sure.

 

Lastly, I don't see her actions as quite the same as someone who stops their own treatment and dies a natural death.

:iagree:

 

But I want to add, while I don't think I would do the same, I think the politicians should stay out of it (meaning using it as a divisive issue).  There needs to be a legal framework in place for health care providers to be able to provide the care the patient needs and wants.   

[prairiewindmomma]

I was against assisted suicide until I watched close family members die of cancer.  It's not something I think I would choose for myself, but I support other's rights to choose.  

 

I have written and erased many paragraphs of text in this post....but I think for me, this is just a tragic situation no matter how you feel about assisted suicide.  My heart is especially with the surviving family.

[VeteranMom]

Could I please see some proof of this. In addition saying that this is happening in Europe is like saying that all states in the US do something.

 

I've worked in elder care in Europe and we certainly did not do anything of the sort. They might stop treatment for cancer if it was terminal and we certainly gave them painkillers but nothing active.

It seems that Belgium has the most relaxed laws.  

http://rt.com/news/191280-assisted-suicide-belgium-couple/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/belgium-euthanasia/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/27/opinion/opinion-anti-euthanasia-kevin-fitzpatrick/

[marbel]

 

 

This is something that should be between family members. Insurance companies should offer some kind of support for this. 

 

Curious what you mean.  A covered benefit via health insurance?   

 

I think that is one of the "slippery slope" things people worry about.  What if the insurance company decided that it would be better for their bottom line to pay for the suicide dose vs. continuing treatment?     

 

[Momof3littles]

IMO, stopping treatment and dying a natural death at that point doesn't spare someone (or their family) from the sometimes horrific process of moving toward death at the very end. It might speed the overall process and result in a shorter time of suffering, but it doesn't allow someone to avoid some of the most acute, intense, and awful suffering at the end, nor spare their families from that suffering. I think in certain instances I would cease to treat my disease, preferring to have quality of life, but there are so many factors to consider.  While deciding to forgo treatment may or may not mean a shorter time alive but higher quality of life, it doesn't help someone possibly avoid the trauma of the actual death.  Those final days and hours may be horrific.

 

I could give details about what my cousin reportedly experienced as part of her death, but it is so absolutely awful that I hesitate to type it.  Ask those who have worked in hospice, or are oncology nurses, and I'm sure they could detail some absolutely horrific deaths full of suffering. 

 

So yes, I would consider forgoing treatment in some cases (two close family members with terminal cancer had strokes while doing chemo and radiation, and that adversely impacted their quality of life.  But there is some thought it might improve the remaining time in some cases, so a complex issue).  Stopping treatment may hasten death, but it doesn't allow someone to avoid the potentially gruesome, dehumanizing aspects of dying "naturally" from their cancer.  And for some people, that suffering at the end is an unbearable thought.  I think they should have the option to end things in perhaps a less traumatic way, one that they feel preserves their dignity as a human being.  My cousin's husband is devastated by what he witnessed.  I wouldn't want to subject my family to that if I could possibly avoid it, knowing the end was coming either way.

[bettyandbob]

IMO, stopping treatment and dying a natural death at that point doesn't spare someone (or their family) from the sometimes horrific process of moving toward death. It might speed the process and result in a shorter time of suffering, but it doesn't allow someone to avoid some of the most acute and awful suffering at the end, nor spare their families from that suffering. I think in certain instances I would cease to treat my disease, preferring to have quality of life, but there are so many factors to consider.  While deciding to forgo treatment may or may not mean a shorter time alive but higher quality of life, it doesn't help someone possibly avoid the trauma of the actual death.  Those final days and hours may be horrific.

 

I think this is a particular issue in this case. I recall in her earliest interviews Ms. Maynard said she was told that because her body was so healthy to begin with it was likely that the final stages of death would drag on.

[Meadowlark]

If you have been following her story, she stated that her seizures were getting longer, more painful and she was having longer periods where she was not able to respond. She talked about being conscious and not knowing how to say her husband's name. She said the longer she waited the more chance there would be that she wouldn't be able to make the choice at all because she wouldn't be able to physically do things for herself.

Indeed. I guess that's where the controversy lies. Some may look at those things (as you mentioned above) to be devastating, and some may not think it's worth dying over. But only she knew obviously. Maybe you could've chosen to omit the snark, really not necessary for this thread.