Boy Scout Summer Camp Rant (JAWM, okay?) -- Updated

[LisaKinVA]

So, we've been attending summer camps for 4 years now (Boy Scouts...this doesn't include Day Camps or Cub Scouts).  We aren't new to this.  We got the official "required" Troop Packing Guide on -- wait for it -- MONDAY.  

 

#1 on the list?  A TREK-Style Backpack to pack in.  NO, the boys aren't going backpacking.  The Troop wants them to pack for a week at summer camp IN the backpack (we own footlockers).  They are sleeping in tents (2-man tents, but one person per tent), and "feel it would be more comfortable to have the backpack than the footlockers."

 

Next?  They want the boys to only wear GREEN shorts and GREEN pants, and require each boy bring 5 pairs of GREEN shorts and 2 pairs of GREEN pants.  (We've always provided the boys with one complete field uniform and an extra pair of green shorts...but FIVE?  Because they are going to camp for a week?  NEVER.

 

Next?  They re-defined "Class B" to mean TROOP t-shirts.  Oh, but they can buy plain T's if they don't have SEVEN TROOP T's.  (Class B's have always been *any* scouting T-shirt.)

 

Next?  Hiking Boots -- these are good to have.  UNFORTUNATELY, oldest DS tried the ones I just bought in the fall, before we moved, on -- and, yup.  They are too small.  DS will not be doing High-Adventure, and will be walking over mostly level-ground the entire time.  Even if I had the $150 to buy another pair of hiking boots, DS doesn't have time to break them in (YEOWCH!).  I asked for a waiver on this, too -- and was told "it looks better as part of the uniform, and your ds IS the SPL and a Life Scout..."  So, I need to use my emergency fund to go buy a pair of brand new hiking boots that will injure his feet as he wears them throughout the week to LOOK GOOD??? 

 

And for my new scout?  He was told he *had* to do the ACE program (which older DS said was a waste of time -- and this younger kid does not do well in situations where he's forced to re-do stuff he's already gotten signed off on...yeah, it's a bad attitude, and I'm working on it, but we're paying a LOT of money to send him to this camp, and I feel it should have been HIS choice to do the ACE program or not).  He will spend a week...and get THREE items signed off on.  He will still be a Tenderfoot when he gets home, and not really any closer to 2nd class or 1st class.  

 

I busted my hump raising nearly $11,000 for summer camp, so that I wouldn't have to cough up $900 to cover transportation, and now I'm supposed to go get trekking back-packs (about $150 each), 3 more pair of GREEN shorts and 1 pair of GREEN pants (there's another $100 per kid), and a new pair of hiking boots ($100+)...so my kids can "look good."  

 

I know, I'm pitching a fit.  And yes...I'm taking this up to the committee.

 

[kiwik]

Sounds unreasonable to me.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Never have we been told to do more than " remember your class A". Agreeing, agreeing. Crazy.

[fraidycat]

Wow. That sounds ridiculous! I hope someone can intervene.

[ThisIsTheDay]

That is crazy.  :(

[Alessandra]

Her, I'd be tempted to send them as provisional scouts to camp without the troop. I know it's too late, but I'd be fantasizing about it anyway. Is this stuff coming from the camp or the troop? Are other parents actually sticking to the list?

 

I would be furious on so many levels. Scouts is not supposed to be restricted to people who can pay $$$$$ for a nitpicky list of equipment.

 

Scouts in our troop bring class A uniforms and it is suggested that they have one class B troop shirt. Hiking boots are on the list. My ds has used hiking sneakers for years now and no one says a word.

 

And the backpacks????? Why? And all this at the last minute?

 

You have my sympathy.

[Plink]

Boys don't change clothes at camp as often as we like to imagine, so they probably won't even notice if you don't buy the extra shorts.

 

((Hugs)) sorry you have to deal with insane people.

[8circles]

That's insane. I wouldn't change anything I had planned to pack and would take the list as only a suggestion.

[mom2scouts]

Ridiculous.  I would take the footlocker, take your one or two pairs of green shorts, and get ONE troop shirt.  Boots help and all first year boys are required to go to First Year courses here, but you can discuss those with committee.  Seriously, I'm on my 4th boy at summer camp and they rarely change their clothes except from Class B to Class A as required!

[Slache]

I just wanted to share that my husband I felt that our Keens did not need to be broken in. They were just the right amount of squishy.

[bettyandbob]

7 pairs of pants? With that kind of packing list, the gear list should have been given to any new family to the troop as soon as they joined so they could budget. But really this list makes no sense for the type of camp.

 

Honestly, I'd pack the way you've packed previously. I'd explain to leaders the demands are out of line and make scouts inaccessible for anyone with a remote financial need.

 

What are the basic requirements of the camp for gear? What things on the list go beyond base requirements. What were the base requirements and troop requirements of last camps you ds attended?

 

If they aren't backpacking why do they need a backpack. If they want the boys to get a feel for packing and camping like they were backpacking no way would the list include 7 pairs of pants.

[Kerileanne99]

Just out of curiousity, if they have upped the clothing and gear requirements, but moved from a footlocker to a backpack, what is the total weight? Too much weight for kids not used to packing it doesn't sound like a great idea to me. Even if they aren't officially backpacking.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

BSA camp within Trans Atlantic Council or going as a troop to an Italian scout camp?

 

I would agree that much of this sounds really odd. It runs counter to our experience even when ds attended the Japanese National Jamboree a few years ago.

 

I would look for a copy of the camp leader guide so you know what's coming from camp or the district/council and what is from local leaders. I have seen leader guides that specified Boy Scout or plain shirt. But a scouting shirt ought be fine for most class B situations. We have only seen troop shirt specified when it was a troop event like a service project.

[Alessandra]

If they aren't backpacking why do they need a backpack. If they want the boys to get a feel for packing and camping like they were backpacking no way would the list include 7 pairs of pants.

Excellent point!

[mom2scouts]

Wait a minute.  You needed how much for Scout camp for two boys?  Where are they going?  We have a local camp, but it's only about $200 and maybe a few supplies.

[goldberry]

Wow...I think I'm glad I have a girl...that is a TON of money!

[SilverMoon]

No boy wears 7 different britches at summer camp. :P

 

Our troop encourages each boy to own a handful of class B shirts. My boys own one, and just wear it until it dies. I do see the point of official class B's, but not that volume.

 

It sounds like someone up top decided to get serious about the best troop awards you can earn at camps and reacted. Our troop has a pretty good record for achieving those, and my boys have been a part of earning them. Everyone having the same uniform all the way down to the $7 socks *did* have a big role in None Better and such, but I know for certain that many of those boys only own one complete set-up.

[SKL]

Whoever made that list is high.  :/

[justasque]

I don't need your JAWM to agree with you. It sounds like whoever made the new list either is not the one who shops in their household or has an unlimited budget and no concept of what it's like to live on limited means.

It's not OK to expect you to buy a new backpack at this point. While it may be better in one way or another, I'd simply say "We cannot afford to purchase a new backpack at this time. Our Johnny will have to make do with a footlocker, as he has in the past, unless the troop has access to a backpack we can borrow."

Also - "Johnny does not have five pairs of green shorts and two of green pants, and our budget will not allow us to purchase them before camp. He will have to make do with what he has. Perhaps next year we can start a troop hand-me-down program so that parents will not have to buy a week's worth of new shorts that will only be worn for a week before they are outgrown."

And - "We had been planning to use Johnny's collection of scouting shirts as his Class B's this year. Our budget won't stretch to six new troop shirts. I will advise Johnny to save his troop shirt for the most important occasions, and wear the other scouting shirts at other times. We simply can't buy new t-shirts at this time."

If the boots are for looks only, well, I could say a lot about scouts being thrifty. "Johnny has a decent pair of sturdy shoes which he will wear in place of boots this year. I agree that appearance does matter, but it's also important for scouts to be thrifty, and at this time my budget doesn't allow for new purchases for matters of appearance. I realize that older scouts should model appropriate behavior for younger scouts. In this case, my son will have to model thrifiness, adaptability, and making do with what you have, all of which are good Scout values. I certainly don't the perception of our troop to be that you can only participate if you can afford to be outfitted in a complete set of new gear with all the trimmings every summer."

 

Why is your summer camp so expensive? Is the troop aware of how much you need to pay, and how much the additional items will cost you? "The additional items you are requesting will cost me $X for my two boys. We have already invested $Y, and our budget simply will not stretch to the additional amount. I'm afraid my boys will have to make do with what they already have. I appreciate your understanding on this."

 

 

I know, I'm pitching a fit.  And yes...I'm taking this up to the committee.

I would too. Remember that these folks are volunteers, and be polite, professional, and firm about what you have already paid and exactly how much they are asking you to spend now, on short notice, on what amounts to extra items that may not even be used. In other words, pitch a fit, but do it calmly, with respect for those who are volunteering their time to make this event happen. They are most likely clueless about the financial aspects of what they are asking, and how much of an impact that can be on some families.

 

 

...Are other parents actually sticking to the list?

 

I would be furious on so many levels. Scouts is not supposed to be restricted to people who can pay $$$$$ for a nitpicky list of equipment.

...

I would be talking to other troop moms as well. The troop needs to realize what they are asking, financially, and that it's inappropriate.

 

 

Boys don't change clothes at camp as often as we like to imagine, so they probably won't even notice if you don't buy the extra shorts.

Yep.

 

 

Ridiculous list. The SM here told ds not to pack 7 pairs of shorts and shirts as that was overkill. Even at nylt they only ask for two uniform sets. My only thought is that if you are camping on foreign soil, your leaders are thinking they are representing the U.S.A. and do feel it is important to not look ragtag. However, a Scout is thrifty...seems like the Troop would have fundraised for all that if they expected families who had just joined to participate.that is a hefty price tag.

 

Yep.

[LisaKinVA]

The backpacks are because the troop tents apparently won't accommodate the footlockers (we still could have known about this before Monday, though).  They didn't want to budge on the hiking boots (never needed boots at camp before) One of the scout leaders has 3 old ones, and has offered them to us to use.  I went to my HS board meeting and one of the Army mom's there said her dh has a pair of tan Nike combat boots that are no longer authorized as part of the uniform, so we're going to try those on and see if they will work (they are supposed to be lightweight and sturdy).  I was also told the Class B's we have are fine, and the green thing was just a suggestion/example :p  Living where we do, I don't always have access to the right shoe sizes/widths.  Oldest wears a tennis shoe that is an 11.5 wide.  We typically wind up with hiking boots about a size larger (because they are more rigid). Ordering anything takes 6+ weeks, and we've had difficulty finding larger sizes of men's shoes here (conversely, I think they actually do make pants with smaller waists and larger inseams...)

 

As far as the cost of camp goes, the camp itself is $390 per person.  Transportation from Italy to Germany -- with all of the gear was going to run over $400 per person (trains/planes to/from are difficult/impossible to manage with all of the gear, and dh and I got involved with the troop too late to really work on alternatives... ),so for safety reasons and just getting stuff hauled, we rented a bus)  If we had gotten involved before, we would have had 2 drivers volunteer to drive the gear up/back (they could be flown home for the week), and had all of the boys take the train with their day-pack.  But, can't worry about that now.  (FYI, costs to travel here are much higher -- except for plane fares), We paid 200 euro in tolls alone (one way) when we went to France this past spring, these kinds of things add up.

 

The New Camper program may be great for scouts who bridge later...younger ds bridged in December.  The troop has really been working hard on rank requirements for the younger scouts, and bringing them up to speed.  Pokeman has been on 4 camping trips since joining.  IMHO, that should count for something.  Kids who are highly motivated (we just had a BOR for a Star scout who just turned 11), also have little need of a program geared towards Tenderfoot.  Now, the scouts who just bridged from Webelo's 2 March and May?  They aren't as far along...but Pokeman has the advantage of a Life Scout at home, and bridging in December.  He's not really that "new" anymore...nor is the boy who joined last September, and this is his first summer camp (he is a 2nd class scout), but since it's his first summer camp they required him to take the program, too.  It's a waste of time and money for kids who have already achieved Tenderfoot or above, regardless of the fact it's their first summer camp.  No different than making a kid who has mastered basic addition repeat basic addition just because that's what all of the first graders are doing right now.

 

I'm much more calm now...but I've spent several hours today trying to track down things to avoid spending money.

 

The troop *really* needs to work on better communication with the parents.  If something is considered a necessity -- and I've got to spend money to get it, tell the parents well in advance!  Hiking boots are always nice to have -- but they have never been a necessity (unless you are doing TRUE hiking/rock climbing).  There is no reason we shouldn't have had a list of gear needed/expected along with all of the costs back in February when we made our deposit.  There should be no reason for surprises.

 

Lisa

 

[Heatherwith4]

Re: the last paragraph of your last post, communication within our Cub Scout pack is definitely our biggest challenge. It really shouldn't be so, considering we have email. So frustrating!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Communication is always a challenge in any scout unit. 

 

I did think of one other reason why backpacks might be requested/required.  We have been to some camps where cars couldn't go up to the campsite. In this case, the leader guide specified that footlockers would be difficult.  When we rented a bus, this was especially the case.  We tended to take a long a large metal wagon to haul troop equipment and water up to the campsite.

 

Does your base have an outdoor rec that could rent equipment.  We rented packs for camp the first couple years my kids attended.  They were sturdy and cost much less than buying a pack.  For your new scout, you might ask about women's packs if the rental men's packs don't go small enough. 

 

If it's just a matter of getting stuff to the campsite from the bus, a strapped duffle bag might also be an answer.  We have gotten a lot of use out of canoe packs that we bought in a surplus sale at our outdoor rec center years ago.  They really take a beating, though I think my youngest would still be able to fit inside the canoe pack.

 

I agree with you on the timeline and need for better communication.  I have never had what I felt was enough communication unless I was actively on the unit committee and attending committee and leader meetings.  It was a string of how are we doing this questions that ended with my being committee chair of our first troop.

 

Sometimes there are some parts that are still up in the air, but a troop ought to be able to answer how they have done things in the past.  I spent most of three meetings last month going up to various ASMs and saying, Hi, we're new to the troop and I'm trying to make sure I know about all of the things that everyone knows because they have been here a while.  Then I just kept making people keep answering questions until I felt like I knew what was going on (or wouldn't get more from that person).

 

I hope your kid has a great time at camp.

[Butter]

What would happen if you simply did not sent everything on the list?

[prairiewindmomma]

We had a similar camp fiasco this year. It is so frustrating!  Dh is actually on troop committee, and we still had this pop up. Of course, Scoutmaster also didn't turn in merit badge schedule requests to camp, pay fees on time, or in any other way get his act together. Grrr....

 

I'm sorry. It's hard for the boys to learn good leadership skills & be proactive about getting themselves ready for camp when adults can't get it together themselves.

[Reefgazer]

Oh, I sympathize.  I posted my own little b*tch-fest on this forum about Cub Scout camp a few weeks ago. 

 

What would happen if you just didn't buy the backpack, sent him without new hikers, etc...?  Just tell them you can't afford anymore stuff.

[Reefgazer]

And what does JAWM mean, anyway?  :)

[Loowit]

Sorry you are dealing with this.  My DS's troop is horrible with communicating ahead of time on things.  It is very frustrating.  My DS is at camp this week and I hope he is having fun.  They signed him up for Trail to First Class even though he didn't want to do it.  I wasn't thrilled, but at least DS decided it wasn't a big deal and didn't complain. I felt that we are paying for the camp, he should get to decide what he spends his time on.  I can see encouraging certain things, but it should be up to the scout to make the decision.

 

As for backpack and the gear, we knew going in that all of the camps in our council required hiking into the campground.  They have to carry all of their gear with them, so backpacks were a must.  DH picked one out for him for his birthday his last year in Webelos.  We planned ahead, but only because DH knew that the boys would be needing them, we couldn't have bought one last minute.

[Random]

 

I'm much more calm now...but I've spent several hours today trying to track down things to avoid spending money.

 

The troop *really* needs to work on better communication with the parents.  If something is considered a necessity -- and I've got to spend money to get it, tell the parents well in advance!  Hiking boots are always nice to have -- but they have never been a necessity (unless you are doing TRUE hiking/rock climbing).  There is no reason we shouldn't have had a list of gear needed/expected along with all of the costs back in February when we made our deposit.  There should be no reason for surprises.

 

Lisa

 

I'm so sorry about the communication thing!  Even though I am in the states, we are quite rural and can't just pick things up at the store.  We have to order almost everything and wait for delivery, or travel a day to the nearest big city to shop.

 

I can relate to the communication thing! My son's first troop had a leader who sorely lacked in communication skills.  My son's first camp experience, I asked for a list of things I should pack, what to expect, etc.  I got a handwritten note that said, "Don't forget to pack toiled paper."  

 

My son has a new leader and for his camp experience this year, I got a 'packet' that included what to bring, a schedule, directions to the camp, phone numbers, a schedule of merit badge classes offered, etc.  It was a much better experience this year because we could prepare.

 

Getting that list at the last minute...I would be ticked!

 

[justasque]

And what does JAWM mean, anyway?  :)

It means "Just Agree With Me".

It's usually used for a post where the OP is requesting that those who disagree refrain from posting.

[freesia]

Crazy!

 

We have never had hiking boots for Scout camp and I can't imagine dh springing for them.

 

Our ds packs in a duffel.

 

He has 1 class B and wears regular shirts the rest of the week.

 

Somehow he survives and thrives at camp.

 

I cannot stand people who "just" want you to buy $200 worth of stuff at the drop of a hat. Surely they know that not everyone can do that!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry!

[Murphy101]

Well I agree with you.

 

I swear every time people post about scouts it solidifies every reason I'm not interested.

 

I'd just tell them, no you are not going to do it and leave it at that. If they act like your kids can't go or fully participate bc of it, I'd tell them I expect a full refund for the camp then bc if I'd known it was going to be a such a PITA, I'd not have paid and fundraiser for it.

 

Yeah. I'm popular I'm sure. But seriously. This stuff drives me nuts and I don't think it's worth it, so I don't pander to it.

 

(((Hugs)))

[QueenCat]

I'd just tell them, no you are not going to do it and leave it at that. If they act like your kids can't go or fully participate bc of it, I'd tell them I expect a full refund for the camp then bc if I'd known it was going to be a such a PITA, I'd not have paid and fundraiser for it.

 

 

 

Every troop we've ever been in has had a "suggested" list. There were very few "absolutely requireds", and even those, we would work with boys who needed help with funding it (usually through troop lending closets). I'm stunned when I see differently, as BSA at the national level does NOT want boys left out due to finances.

[Mrs Mungo]

That is a bit crazy. Our list looked more like this:

 

Class A uniform x 1

Troop t-shirt x 2 (all the boys were given these by the troop)

Other t-shirts (preferred BSA)

BSA socks x 2 minimum

Other green shorts

Other socks

Shower shoes

Athletic shoes or hiking boots

 

And so forth. They did footlockers, not backpacks. You would never pack that way for a backpacking trip, so their argument makes zero sense. Why would you train someone incorrectly? Training them to fill up a backpack with lots of clothes and such is a terrible idea. When you backpack, extra clothing is kept to an absolute minimum, most of your weight is taken up with food and shelter.

 

Eta: Our troop signed all of the first year boys up for the swimming and first aid badges because those are great ones to do in the group setting and are hard to do on your own. They got to pick their other 3 MB classes. I think it was the same across the board, the boys were generally signed up for 2 Eagle required classes (those varied according to year and prerequisite requirements) and chose the rest on their own.

[dirty ethel rackham]

So, we've been attending summer camps for 4 years now (Boy Scouts...this doesn't include Day Camps or Cub Scouts).  We aren't new to this.  We got the official "required" Troop Packing Guide on -- wait for it -- MONDAY.  

 

#1 on the list?  A TREK-Style Backpack to pack in.  NO, the boys aren't going backpacking.  The Troop wants them to pack for a week at summer camp IN the backpack (we own footlockers).  They are sleeping in tents (2-man tents, but one person per tent), and "feel it would be more comfortable to have the backpack than the footlockers."

 

Next?  They want the boys to only wear GREEN shorts and GREEN pants, and require each boy bring 5 pairs of GREEN shorts and 2 pairs of GREEN pants.  (We've always provided the boys with one complete field uniform and an extra pair of green shorts...but FIVE?  Because they are going to camp for a week?  NEVER.

 

Next?  They re-defined "Class B" to mean TROOP t-shirts.  Oh, but they can buy plain T's if they don't have SEVEN TROOP T's.  (Class B's have always been *any* scouting T-shirt.)

 

Next?  Hiking Boots -- these are good to have.  UNFORTUNATELY, oldest DS tried the ones I just bought in the fall, before we moved, on -- and, yup.  They are too small.  DS will not be doing High-Adventure, and will be walking over mostly level-ground the entire time.  Even if I had the $150 to buy another pair of hiking boots, DS doesn't have time to break them in (YEOWCH!).  I asked for a waiver on this, too -- and was told "it looks better as part of the uniform, and your ds IS the SPL and a Life Scout..."  So, I need to use my emergency fund to go buy a pair of brand new hiking boots that will injure his feet as he wears them throughout the week to LOOK GOOD??? 

 

And for my new scout?  He was told he *had* to do the ACE program (which older DS said was a waste of time -- and this younger kid does not do well in situations where he's forced to re-do stuff he's already gotten signed off on...yeah, it's a bad attitude, and I'm working on it, but we're paying a LOT of money to send him to this camp, and I feel it should have been HIS choice to do the ACE program or not).  He will spend a week...and get THREE items signed off on.  He will still be a Tenderfoot when he gets home, and not really any closer to 2nd class or 1st class.  

 

I busted my hump raising nearly $11,000 for summer camp, so that I wouldn't have to cough up $900 to cover transportation, and now I'm supposed to go get trekking back-packs (about $150 each), 3 more pair of GREEN shorts and 1 pair of GREEN pants (there's another $100 per kid), and a new pair of hiking boots ($100+)...so my kids can "look good."  

 

I know, I'm pitching a fit.  And yes...I'm taking this up to the committee.

Oh, Lisa.  I am seething for you!  We live in a fairly affluent area and we never had such expensive requirements.  They want seven changes of clothes?? Really?  What boy scout really cares if his clothes are clean.  One of the scoutmasters told all the first year scouts to take all their clean underwear that they didn't bother to change into and toss it on the ground to get it dirty so that their mom's would think they changed their underwear :lol:  I think my son only owned one pair of official color Boy Scout pants - zip offs so they would be shorts or pants depending on the situation. 

 

My kids always packed a duffel bag for camp.  The Army Surplus store has those huge ones for about $20.  We were advised NOT to buy a Trek style backpack until a couple of months before a high adventure because they didn't want the boys to outgrow an expensive piece of equipment before they would really need it.  My son only used his once - for Philmont.  I've borrowed it a couple of times for rock climbing trips. 

 

Our troop always required Class A uniform (and pretty lax on what is on the bottom) for travel to and from any official BSA activity (for insurance purposed.)  The Class B was always a troop shirt and kids usually only had one.  They would make a T shirt at camp every year - that would serve as an alternate Class B just for Summer Camp.  (They would tie-dye a t shirt in honor of one of the scout moms who attempted to have them dye shirts using only ingredients found in nature and they turned out butt-ugly.  She died of cancer the following year so the troop has been making tie-dye shirts in her honor for the last decade.)  The troop started to go with performance Ts for class Bs because they could easily be rinsed out every night and dry by morning. 

 

The summer camp gear list should have gone out before the deposits were due.  Really!  Do they have some anal retentive-mom in charge this year?   I really can't think of a dad putting that much energy into how things look. 

 

About the footwear, can you get away with some trail runners as opposed to heavy duty hiking boots?  That is what I wear for the approaches for rock climbing - they give me some better support but aren't as inflexible as hikers (which don't work all that well over really uneven terrain anyway as you don't get as good a feel for the ground.)

[chocolatechip]

:svengo: I don't even have 7 pairs of pants and shorts PERIOD (though I don't wear shorts), much less 7 pairs of GREEN pants!!! 

 

Crazy.

[freesia]

That is a bit crazy. Our list looked more like this:

 

Class A uniform x 1

Troop t-shirt x 2 (all the boys were given these by the troop)

Other t-shirts (preferred BSA)

BSA socks x 2 minimum

Other green shorts

Other socks

Shower shoes

Athletic shoes or hiking boots

 

And so forth. They did footlockers, not backpacks. You would never pack that way for a backpacking trip, so their argument makes zero sense. Why would you train someone incorrectly? Training them to fill up a backpack with lots of clothes and such is a terrible idea. When you backpack, extra clothing is kept to an absolute minimum, most of your weight is taken up with food and shelter.

 

Eta: Our troop signed all of the first year boys up for the swimming and first aid badges because those are great ones to do in the group setting and are hard to do on your own. They got to pick their other 3 MB classes. I think it was the same across the board, the boys were generally signed up for 2 Eagle required classes (those varied according to year and prerequisite requirements) and chose the rest on their own.

Oh! You forgot something. Ours had " a change of underwear for each day is recommended." LOL

[freesia]

:svengo: I don't even have 7 pairs of pants and shorts PERIOD (though I don't wear shorts), much less 7 pairs of GREEN pants!!! 

 

Crazy.

Good point! My older kids (who don't have as many hand me downs) only have 4 pairs of shorts each (well, okay, plus one pair of BS shorts--so 5).

[Loowit]

I went and looked up what DS was supposed to bring to camp with him this week.  His list was:

 

sack lunch (for the trip to camp)

the items of the "what to bring to camp list" (I think they mean the one in the leader guide the camp puts out)

water bottle

mess kit

sun screen

water shoes

swimming suit

sleeping bag

pad

rain pancho

sweatshirt

Class B shirt

hat

 

The camp lists things like jeans, uniform (for meals and flag), extra shoes, extra socks/underwear, toiletries, money for the trading post and merit badges if needed, etc.  The boys aren't supposed to pack a ton of clothes, just enough for making it through the week.  I think DS only packed a couple pairs of pants/shorts and a couple shirts.  He re-wears them most of the week. The camp he is at has an outbound program where the troops hike out and stay one night as a patrol at a site away from the main camp.  But getting out the list of needed supplies early is imporant, I hate the last minute stuff.

[Mrs Mungo]

Oh! You forgot something. Ours had " a change of underwear for each day is recommended." LOL

LOL, that is why it says "and so forth!" :D I didn't type out the whole list, just the bits that were a point of contention for the OP. ;)

[LisaKinVA]

Thanks everyone...I feel so much better.  I really do.  There are a couple of other Troop moms who were pretty upset, and I did receive an email late today backing down on pretty much everything.  Although I did notice later that they recommend 2 Class A uniforms... like many of your the sheer amount of clothing they want on this trip is a bit mind boggling.  But, they have refused to allow boys to go in the past without the minimum requirements.

 

My husband and I are both committee members, and I do know our volunteers do a lot.  I also know that there are many parents who didn't bat an eye, and still others with 2 Class As.   This was a hard week, and this did not help.  What really spun me up though was when we went to the SM &ASM about it, I received 2 responses that essentially said things like...I know how you feel, but it's really not that expensive.  They really need to have blah blah, there are rocks and sticks on the ground...gather what you can...no one else has asked for exceptions...blah blah.  He backed down after taking to the committee chair (and I knew better than to send out snarky replies).  

 

The troop will have better planning in the future, because more than half of the committee is not happy with this situation.  I also made lots of parental allies with the fundraising as well.  We will be putting together a family packet, with all relevant information in August, and having an annual parent meeting in September, with a spring New Scout parent meeting after Webelos bridge.  Because this is a Navy base, there is a high turnover....messes were inherited...and many of us have never worked this closely with a troop.  So, I've made it my mission to begin putting files on the troop websites with important information posted.  

 

I plan to sit back with a nice glass of wine tomorrow night as well.

[freesia]

I'm so glad that they backed down on most things. I agree that I don't know why they need 2 class As. I've never heard of that. Our troop won't let the boys bring their neckerchiefs or slides bc they get lost. We must be slacker-scouts. LOL

 

The "not so much money" comment about knocks me flat! In whose world is $200-$300 not much money?????

 

I can't stand when organizations have one fee to join and then keep adding things. In our experience Boy Scouts has been different--but obviously not everywhere.

 

Good job fighting back!

[prairiewindmomma]

We have set up a troop FB page... It's been very helpful!

[LisaKinVA]

Boys got home last night.  They had a great time, despite a lot of rain.  I spoke briefly to the Scoutmaster about Pokeman probably needing a bit of extra encouragement regarding the ACE program.  Almost got into a tit-for-tat regarding what would be covered (apparently, NO ONE read the schedule, blew me off, saying "there is always time for other things...and a couple years ago most of the scouts came back 1st class).  Bwhaha  2 years ago...that's nice.  

 

Pokeman DID have a good time.  He wasn't down or anything.  had a really good attitude.  He completed Tenderfoot (that was really done before he left).  Has the same 5 requirements left for 2nd class, and did get 8 new sign offs for 1st class...which is better than I hoped for.  HOWEVER, most of the 2nd class and 1st class requirements were not done as part of ACE, but during troop/free time.  He started cooking and finished art.  

 

LegoManiac is exhausted.  Being SPL during summer camp isn't all it's cracked up to be.  He did complete 2 badges (Rifle and Photography).  Still has to finish cooking and safety.

 

LegoManiac has to complete a presentation to the Board regarding "Boy Led" -- we've been trying to have him stop complaining and to turn it into an example of boy-led leadership, by working to change what he feels is wrong (we've heard this complaint from 2 Eagle candidates at their BOR in the last 3 months).  DS is actually really good at things like this -- and it will be good for him.  The board meeting is on the 30th, and another larger board meeting (which I can't be at, due to dd's birthday party), is on the 2nd of August.  DS will present during the 2nd of August (DH will have to go to the board meeting for awhile).  We're providing moral support (and I'm sure I'll be helping to fine-tune his speech), but we've put this ball into his court.  I think it will be MORE effective coming from the older scouts than from the 2 moms on the board.  

 

Now, to get the laundry and gear cleaned...because my puppy seems to think it's hers to enjoy.

 

 

 

 

[ChemMommy]

I'm so sorry for your experience. My son is an eagle scout and has been on staff for 4 years now. He did not have a 2nd class A until he was staff.  Class A was shirt and jeans, not khaki while he was in the troop.  One class B troop shirt required at camp.  Raingear was required, but wasn't scout rain gear.  We did use backpacks, but it wasn't required. Tennis shoes, not hiking boots were required. For high adventure, the equipment was a required backpack and hiking boots.

 

Otherwise, we tried to be frugal. These requirements are over the top.  You have a right to be ticked off.

 

Glad they enjoyed their experience.

[Laura Corin]

My boys only changed clothes at scout camp if they got wet.  They came home smelly and it was just fine.

 

They have always been required to use backpacks for camp - both in American Scouts and UK scouts - but a last-minute demand is not reasonable.  They have never been required to own more than a scout shirt, necker and woggle, with (in Scotland) some form of kilt as smart wear - we bought them kilts at Aldi.

 

L

[Coffeemama]

Boys don't change clothes at camp as often as we like to imagine, so they probably won't even notice if you don't buy the extra shorts.

 

((Hugs)) sorry you have to deal with insane people.

I just unpacked my son to do laundry from his week away and more than half of it was still folded, untouched. (Including underwear...yuck)

I would certainly not buy more shorts or pants.

[Seasider]

That list is ridiculous. Ten full clothing changes in a backpack?

 

But, honestly, I'm having a hard time getting past the "$11,000 for summer camp." If you're in for that much, what's an extra couple of tshirts?

 

ETA okay I see that the 11K was likely part of the group fundraising effort, not the cost for just your guys. I still think the list is nuts. Sounds like they are dressing for photo ops.

[LisaKinVA]

Most clothes were not worn...except socks.  I think every pair of socks were used.  It rained a lot.  I just pointed to my big toe and said change your socks, keep your feet dry, or this will happen to you.  I'm still suffering from not having proper footwear during Normandy.  The shame... I will be pushing for a lot fewer requirements vs. Options on a camp out.  The pack check was over the top.  But we made it.  In our old troop, it was very laid back (except high adventure or cold weather trips).  They figured the boys learn best by being responsible themselves, and suffering natural consequences.  They did make sure safety issues were checked, but they didn't count socks and shirts.  From the photos there were plenty of boys wearing whatever from other troops.  I think we need to dial the requirements back a bit.  

[LisaKinVA]

That list is ridiculous. Ten full clothing changes in a backpack?

 

But, honestly, I'm having a hard time getting past the "$11,000 for summer camp." If you're in for that much, what's an extra couple of tshirts?

 

ETA okay I see that the 11K was likely part of the group fundraising effort, not the cost for just your guys. I still think the list is nuts. Sounds like they are dressing for photo ops.

YUP $11000 is what we raised to help offset camp costs for the troop.  Including transportation, the total per scout was just over $800.  Fundraising took nearly $500 per scout off those fees.  Transportation plan for next year is already under development.  And we will have 100% of those costs covered probably by Christmas.  We will fundraise for camperships from May to July 1.  

[Alessandra]

YUP $11000 is what we raised to help offset camp costs for the troop.  Including transportation, the total per scout was just over $800.  Fundraising took nearly $500 per scout off those fees.  Transportation plan for next year is already under development.  And we will have 100% of those costs covered probably by Christmas.  We will fundraise for camperships from May to July 1.  

 

Wow, you are a great fundraiser!