S/O - How dirty is this house to you?

[Sun]

After all the messy home threads lately, I thought I'd see what you all thought of this house.

 

I came across these pictures of a house from which the children were removed by CPS. Leaving aside the bathroom conditions (which I don't think show up in this set of pictures--and you can all be thankful for that!), how bad does this house look to you?

 

I personally was a little surprised that investigators described it as the filthiest house they'd ever seen. The bathroom was awful, but if you ignore that, I didn't think the rest of it rose to the level of needing CPS intervention.

 

This link contains a series of pictures of the house from which the kids were removed.

 

What does the hive say about this house? Please vote only based on the pictures, not including the bathroom, and not based on what it says in the article.

[Hunter's Moon]

There were fecal footprints in the house. That is filth to me.

[Jennifer in MI]

Ewwwww! I consider that really, really bad. And, if it has been condemned, I think there is probably a level of filth we can't see. I'm assuming, based on the food things I see in the pictures, that there is an infestation of some sort - bugs or rodents?

 

I don't know about CPS standards, but that house really is disgusting!!!

 

ETA: I: just read the article (I hadn't when I posted before. And, I change my vote to CPS needed to be involved. Yuck, yuck, yuck.

[Laura Corin]

It rather depends what the 'brown stuff' on the floor is. Maple syrup? Or.....

 

Laura

[Heatherwith4]

It's a no-brainer to me that kids should be removed in a house where there is days and days worth of feces on the ground and in the toilet.

[Hunter's Moon]

It rather depends what the 'brown stuff' on the floor is. Maple syrup? Or.....

 

Laura

 

From reading the article, I am assuming it is feces. It is no surprise considering the condition of the bathroom.

[Julie in CA]

It rather depends what the 'brown stuff' on the floor is. Maple syrup? Or.....

 

Laura

Yup. This. :iagree:

[Belacqua]

I tend to believe the neighbors who said they had no idea, as the outside photos seem pretty benign. I have other thoughts, but I also have an overwhelming compulsion to tidy my desk.

[Sun]

Hey folks, ignore the bathroom, OK?

[MedicMom]

I have hotlined people for less filthy houses than that.

[Sun]

And vote based on the pictures ONLY, not on what it says in the article - which means you don't know what the brown spots on the floor are!

[Laura Corin]

And vote based on the pictures ONLY, not on what it says in the article - which means you don't know what the brown spots on the floor are!

 

 

Yes - I didn't read the article.

 

Laura

[Mommie_Jen]

You know, I looked at those pictures and I feel badly for the parents. I have ILs who are hoarders (truly). My house usually looks a bit messy and cluttered. Heck, that first picture of the living room? Upon first glance, that's what mine looks like about once a day. Just an explosion of stuff everywhere.

 

I can see and understand how the mess quickly spirals out of control and you are left feeling helpless and just. don't. know. where. to. start. It does look like there are many many dangers to young kids there, ranging from sanitary conditions to (what seems to me) common sense toddler proofing.

 

I don't want kids and parents seperated. The trauma from that...I don't even want to think about. But sometimes I think drastic times call for drastic measures. I do think the parents need help getting their lives in order, and I hope this is the forceable push they need.

[Lucy the Valiant]

That is appalling.

[KrissiK]

I think it's pretty bad. Plus, the pictures don't tell us about smell. We've had some issues, though, with our social worker complaining about the state of my house, which really irritate me. First, let me say that we have a weekly cleaning service and they do the usual. Then we do pick up toys in common areas daily and clean bed rooms weekly. But... If you are gonna stop in on me unannounced on the middle of the day with 5 kids who are home all day.... yes, there will be crumbs on the floor from breakfast. I sweep the floor once a day. There are dishes on the counter top. It's spotless when I go to bed, though. I ought to forward these picture to her. (Grumble, grumble)

[Jean in Newcastle]

As far as toy and household clutter, it is messier than my messy house but I wouldn't think of intervention. But I think I saw food waste left out and a diaper in one picture and of course the infamous "brown stuff". That tips it over into danger territory esp. since I think that was a toddler bed I saw. I am more concerned when toddlers are in a situation because toddlers get into things. I did not read the accompanying article.

[UrbanSue]

Just voting on pictures I voted "really messy, CPS maybe involved" meaning a house that messy would raise red flags for me and I'd want to know more about the situation.

 

I don't think all the pictures were loading for me, though.

 

And on the bottom poll I voted "my house is pretty messy but better than that" meaning "at it's worst when I've been sick for days". I don't consider myself a great housekeeper but usually there is some rhyme or reason to the mess in my house. You know, obviously the kids have been playing in that room . . . obviously you just haven't folded the clean laundry yet. That just seemed like random clutter and filth.

[Guest inoubliable]

Um. That was really gross. Condemned, eh? I don't think I even need to know what the brown stuff was. I feel the need to take a shower.

[Chris in VA]

Does look like a hoarding situation. I have a friend w a house like this, but the poo is dog poo. Still totally icky. Its a sickness (hoarding I mean).

[PeacefulChaos]

I only looked at the pictures there - nothing of the bathroom, and I didn't read the article - and I think it's gross. Way gross. :ack2:

I would say from what I saw that it was nasty and I could see CPS getting involved. It's just really gross.

 

My house has never, ever looked anything like that. In fact, compared to it it looks spotless (though I voted that it's pretty clean, not spotless ;) )

[Hunter's Moon]

And vote based on the pictures ONLY, not on what it says in the article - which means you don't know what the brown spots on the floor are!

 

 

Whoops, from my iPod I could not see the pictures, only the video.

 

The pictures are worse than what is shown in the video though.

[mommymilkies]

If that is poo, then yes I agree with them. That's certainly not the nastiest house I've ever seen, though.

 

As far as toy and household clutter, it is messier than my messy house but I wouldn't think of intervention. But I think I saw food waste left out and a diaper in one picture and of course the infamous "brown stuff". That tips it over into danger territory esp. since I think that was a toddler bed I saw. I am more concerned when toddlers are in a situation because toddlers get into things. I did not read the accompanying article.

 

 

I agree. The toys and clothes aren't that out there. It's the chemicals and waste that's a big issue. My house has never looked close to that, even on a bad day. Not that my house is spotless. You run the risk of being attacked by dog hair and Legos here, but not filth.

 

Is Hoarders not on Netflix anymore? This made me want to watch and I can't find it!

[2squared]

That house is disgusting. Our house gets trashed some days, and it isn't picked up every day. But.....it's never more than 30 minutes from looking good.

 

In my experience, CPS visits that result in kid removal are rarely cold-call situations. My dh is our county prosecutor, and they always have families they are monitoring. He usually knows of or about the families/parents before someone calls a hotline. Our CPS genuinely wants to reunite families, so they try to give the parents a helping hand. Not everyone takes it. Looks like this family isn't one who took the helping hand. KWIM?

[Hunter's Moon]

I also noticed in the kitchen that the under sink cabinets that were wide open had dangerous chemicals where a toddler could get at them. Not that that would require CPS involvement if that was the only issue since they could easily lock the cabinets, but it is just one more thing to add to the file.

[SKL]

Looking at the photos only, I'd have to get a whiff to know how bad it was. It looks pretty dirty, and it looks like they never do laundry, but by looks alone it doesn't seem dangerous. That doesn't mean a walk through the house wouldn't lead to that conclusion.

 

I guess I wonder why they bothered with some of those photos.

 

I also noticed there were a lot of beer cans lying around on the floor. I always wonder how people who can't find time to clean (etc.) can always seem to find time to buy and consume beer.

[Kim in Appalachia]

The house was foul, and I didn't read the article or even see the bathroom picture.

 

Honestly, I had an uncle and aunt whose house was like that when I was little, and yes, CPS should have come in and taken the kids.

 

When a house looks like that there is something else going on, be it drugs or a mental illness.

 

I hope the parent/parents get help.

[NorthwestMom]

I'm pretty sure CPS will remove children when feces are present. I support that. I can certainly guess what the brown stains are on the floor in the pics.

 

I do think that house is filthy and children should be removed. One of the children was only 2 years old and besides the feces and rotting food, there were potential poisons under the sink, unstable piles of junk in the closet, and just cr*p everywhere.

 

I have seen far worse on Hoarders, and I don't think that house would be all that hard to clean up compared to those situations. I DO think CPS was right to act. Hopefully the kids are safe with a relative and this will be the wake up call that their parents require. No one should live like that.

[SKL]

I would note that there were times in my youth when our kitchen looked pretty gross, because my sister was the cook and she always spilled sauce etc. everywhere. It was my job to clean the kitchen, including the floor, every night. If someone had come and taken pictures while we were having dinner, it would probably cause some of you to gasp.

 

I don't think a few days' clutter or messy closets are a concern. I would be concerned if there was filth (body waste, rotten food) lying around for more than a few hours or if it appeared that an inordinate amount of time had passed since the last time anyone washed the basic surfaces.

 

As for the chemicals under the sink, I never moved mine (nor locked my cupboards) despite raising two toddlers. They learned to not go in there. They had other cabinets that they were allowed to play in. It doesn't concern me how someone prefers to organize their house, as long as they make sure their kids are safe.

[Paige]

I am surprised that so many people would say to call CPS based on the pictures alone. I did not read the article on purpose and I think details as to what is in the mess and what those stains are and how long various things have been sitting out, and how often the house looks like that could all change my opinion. However, I have seen many houses that really aren't much better. These would be relatives or friends of mine or friends of the family when I was a kid. I guess familiarity breeds....resignation? The families I know are not horrible parents. And for most it's really not a hoarding issue but a lazy issue. They would be happy to let someone else come in and clean for them. Some of these people seem absolutely professional outside of the home and I bet if they had money they would be happy to hire someone to clean.

 

My house looks nothing like that and it is kind of a running joke in my family that we should clean or we'll spiral down into a mess like __________'s house. We do not like to go to their houses and prefer to invite these people to our home instead, but I will go if I need to. When I go, I politely do not comment. It's not as if they don't know and aren't embarrassed. Some people I am comfortable enough with that I will ask if they'd like me to help with something but usually I keep my mouth shut and focus on the person. We had this one family (relatives) that my father absolutely refused to go into their home when I was a kid. My mom took me a couple of times and it didn't kill me.

[Sun]

I was curious what everyone's reactions would be because I'm kind of a neat freak, and I know that my reaction to a house like that is not necessarily in line with the norm. I really like clean, clear surfaces, and I feel like my house is a mess when there are five things on the coffee table, and the mail is lying on the counter. Still, I'm surprised that so many of you found that house so awful, even not taking the bathroom into account. I absolutely think the kids needed to be removed with the bathroom as it is, but without the bathroom "issue" there, I would have expected CPS to just follow the family and require cleaning and management of safety issues (like the chemicals).

 

Seeing that house makes me hyperventilate, but I didn't know how others would feel!

[justamouse]

You forgot horrifying but CPS shouldn't get involved. Though the momma in me is screaming that that is unjust, and not moral that a child should be made to live like that.

 

Soap and elbow grease don't cost much.

[SKL]

When I was a kid, I had a friend with a house that was probably that bad. The dad was not living there (but he'd visit at times to beat somebody). The mom had a back injury and spent most of the time lying on a mattress in the living room. There were four kids and a dog appropriately named "Puddles." The 10yo was allowed to prepare "food" with little instruction. At one point the drains were clogged so they could not flush the toilet, and they went potty in the tub instead. I could see CPS intervening (though I don't know if they ever did). But really, that should be a matter of getting help for that family, not punishing them.

 

As an adoptive mom, I have to say that taking kids away from parents is an extremely drastic measure. It should never be done over a difference of housekeeping philosophy. Instead they should send someone over to help the parent clean up and teach some sustainable skills, and then monitor the situation. Hopefully there was something else involved if the kids were separated from their parents.

[aggieamy]

I'm a neat freak and would welcome the most critical MIL in the world to check my bathroom out at a moments notice so I'm going to be biased about the house. Consider that a disclaimer.

 

Gross. I can understand clutter and as I look out my office into DD's playroom I see that there's been a terrible explosion that has scattered Playmobil schrapnal all over the room. Oh wait. No, I guess the Playmobil people and animals are just on a camping trip upon further investigation. It's cluttered. There's a kid at home.

 

The things in the pictures that jumped out at me are:

 

There is no clean place for a child to sleep.

There is rotting food.

There is no hygenic place to consume food.

There is no place for a child to sit and play.

 

Based on the state of the house I doubt there is food available and clean clothing either.

 

I didn't read about the bathrooms but based on the kitchen ... I can't imagine.

 

ETA: Okay, saw the bathroom pictures. I think they're lucky the cop didn't pistol whip them for allowing children to live in those conditions.

[Spryte]

Disgusting. I can't fathom anyone living that way. (No, I've never seen Hoarders, only heard it discussed here.)

 

I accidentally clicked on the bathroom pics, and saw one. On that note, I am now nauseas.

 

I hope the parents get the help they need to get it together, so their family can be together in a safe, healthy environment.

[SKL]

Actually, the more I think of it, an in-law's house comes to mind . . . .

 

Growing up, we thought the husband was the worst slob ever. Imagine our surprise when HE reported being disgusted by his wife's housekeeping. The thought of him telling her how to clean ("at least there should be no rotting food in the kitchen") was amusing.

[Alessandra]

When I was a kid, I had a friend with a house that was probably that bad. The dad was not living there (but he'd visit at times to beat somebody). The mom had a back injury and spent most of the time lying on a mattress in the living room. There were four kids and a dog appropriately named "Puddles." The 10yo was allowed to prepare "food" with little instruction. At one point the drains were clogged so they could not flush the toilet, and they went potty in the tub instead. I could see CPS intervening (though I don't know if they ever did). But really, that should be a matter of getting help for that family, not punishing them.

 

As an adoptive mom, I have to say that taking kids away from parents is an extremely drastic measure. It should never be done over a difference of housekeeping philosophy. Instead they should send someone over to help the parent clean up and teach some sustainable skills, and then monitor the situation. Hopefully there was something else involved if the kids were separated from their parents.

 

 

What she said.

 

If the house is in a state because parents are drug users, I would view the house as a reflection of the bigger problem and remove the children because of the bigger problem.

 

If the house is the way it is, because a single mom is working two jobs, has a physical illness or untreated depression, has dc with psychiatric special needs, that sort of thing, I would view the house as side effect and hope that help could be given without breaking up the family.

 

BTW, I didn't look too closely, and I missed the bathroom.

[Outdoorsy Type]

It's bad, but I could see it happening quickly if the parent(s) are ill. They obviously need help, but it's dreadfully sad that its coming from the cps and not friends/family.

[mommymilkies]

I think it's pretty bad. Plus, the pictures don't tell us about smell. We've had some issues, though, with our social worker complaining about the state of my house, which really irritate me. First, let me say that we have a weekly cleaning service and they do the usual. Then we do pick up toys in common areas daily and clean bed rooms weekly. But... If you are gonna stop in on me unannounced on the middle of the day with 5 kids who are home all day.... yes, there will be crumbs on the floor from breakfast. I sweep the floor once a day. There are dishes on the counter top. It's spotless when I go to bed, though. I ought to forward these picture to her. (Grumble, grumble)

 

 

Exactly! Why do people always stop over when your house has exploded into a mess? Lol it's not a mess here all the time, but doing laundry on the floor and having a "bear hunt" through the house are like magnets to impromptu visits.

 

We had CPC called on us years ago for an issue that was resolved at the door. Thank God I had just got done cleaning up after lunch and my house was spotless. I passed the cleanliness part with flying colors (we think it was a crazy nosy neighbor and they said the issue was obviously falsified). The homeschooling and co sleeping they had issue with, but at least my house was clean! Those pictures make me want to decluttering my house. Look out, Salvation Army!

[elegantlion]

The pictures would have me looking further. The pink trike outside has feces on it, you can tell by the photo, it's not just dirt. The carpets haven't been vacuumed in a long while. The kitchen sink is shiny, but the stove is piled full and filthy? Obviously whoever lives there is either overwhelmed, has never been taught to clean, or is just messy.

 

My dh is pretty anal and I'm a straightener, my house has never looked like that. There are no systems of organization for food, toys, coats. It doesn't take much to pound a hook into a wall to hang stuff up. I also agree about the kitchen cabinets. If there are chemical under the sink, then having a toddler is an issue.

 

The smell would be an issue too. I didn't see the bathroom.

[BigMamaBird]

That house was pretty gross. Just from pictures I didn't see anything that couldn't be fixed with some serious, determined deep cleaning though.

 

I used to work as a secretary for a social services program. What I'm guessing those pictures didn't convey is the smell. My workers would often come back and completely change their clothes because of urine soaked surfaces, feces caked in carpets, gunk growing in crevasses. Those things can't be described in pictures. My boss once had to take a month off because he got something growing in his lungs from working long hours in a moldy environment.

[justamouse]

I think taking the kids out, as awful as those conditions are, is even more harmful.

 

Get someone in to clean the place, help the parents clean it, and then monitor.

 

Some people just don't have these skills. They've never been taught. They need help. I have met and seen such, and it was ignorance.

[AnIslandGirl]

 

I personally was a little surprised that investigators described it as the filthiest house they'd ever seen. The bathroom was awful, but if you ignore that, I didn't think the rest of it rose to the level of needing CPS intervention.

 

 

You are kidding, right? There is no way that environment can be healthy for a child! CPS should have been called a long time ago from the looks of the place. Ewww!

[Alte Veste Academy]

I think it's pretty bad. Plus, the pictures don't tell us about smell. We've had some issues, though, with our social worker complaining about the state of my house, which really irritate me. First, let me say that we have a weekly cleaning service and they do the usual. Then we do pick up toys in common areas daily and clean bed rooms weekly. But... If you are gonna stop in on me unannounced on the middle of the day with 5 kids who are home all day.... yes, there will be crumbs on the floor from breakfast. I sweep the floor once a day. There are dishes on the counter top. It's spotless when I go to bed, though. I ought to forward these picture to her. (Grumble, grumble)

 

 

The smell. Yes. The smell. I'm only supposed to go on the pictures but, honestly, I can smell that house just by looking at the pictures. I was a Social Worker in a previous life and I have been in the homes of some extremely dysfunctional people. It is commonly known amongst Social Workers, home health folks, etc. that there is a "smell of poverty" which is actually an inaccurate term. It is a smell of apathy, due to a wide variety of factors. It is an indescribably gross smell. Before I entered some houses, I would put perfume on my upper lip to keep from gagging.

 

Bread crumbs on the floor? Eh. Wouldn't have bothered me. If you have 5 kids, a messy bathroom wouldn't even bother me much. (Now that I have kids of my own anyway... :tongue_smilie: Come to think of it, I'm not so sure people who don't have kids have any business serving those with children.)

 

Anyway, I did a lot of casework (with the county MHMR) in my early years. That is the filthiest house I have ever seen, based only on pictures, and I've seen some pretty gross houses.

[saraha]

There must have been something else going on, at least in my county, my husband used to work for JFS, they would have gotten the family on a "plan" with deadlines to have such and such done, then a new deadline with a new goal. They would have probably relocated the whole family temporarily (for the night) to get the plumbing fixed. But seeing as how the police came on a domestic call and found the mother drunk and the dad got arrested, they would have pretty much had to take them temporarily.

 

If someone in my family had a home that looked like that and resisted help, I would call cps. Mostly because I know their knee jerk isn't to take kids away, it is to get you to a point that you can take care of your kids. If you refuse to/ are unable to get to that point, then the kids get taken. But that is not the goal of cps, as far as my experience has been.

[elegantlion]

Another issue by looking at more pictures is that some of those piles could be a danger to a toddler. A folding chair piled on top of other stuff? Seriously, it only takes a little smack to give a toddler a concussion. The CD rack leaning on the child's bed? Again, the clutter might not have me calling CPS, the dirty floors probably wouldn't, but smell, other issues, and I just looked at the bathroom (OMG!) - I think I'll be sick.

 

It's not just stuff, or a child who needs to clean and pick up, the adult needs an intervention.

[aggieamy]

I'm not going to quote anybody because this is a general question for people that think CPS should have gotten them help/training on cleaning/monitored the situation. If two grown adults are using the bathtub as a toilet and have for a while (weeks?!?!?! based on the pictures) how can training help that? That's not a situation of "my mother never taught me how to keep house". That's something else. What? I don't know. But I can't imagine any adult in the US (or anywhere for that matter) that thinks it's okay to have WEEKS of sewage sitting open in your house with small children in the house.

[lavender's green]

Every single time I've been in a house that looks like that, there's been feces (human and/or pet) and rodents around and the parents are either druggies or alcoholics. I'd call CPS for that.

 

My house isn't perfect, but each individual room could be made spotless is less than 5 minutes.

[AK_Mom4]

I was ok with the pics untilthey got to the kids room with the little pink bed and the ones of the kitchen. Those are just horrible.

 

We took in some kids as emergency foster placement one time at CPS request when their mom had to go into a mental health place. We went by their house to pick up some clothes for them and OMG this was what it was like. Nowhere to walk without stepping on clothes and garbage, filthy kitchen, and the smell was atrocious. Only one sort-of working bathroom.

 

My experience definitely colors my view on this one, and I would be calling CPS too.

[Lisbeth]

Pretty disordered, but it looks like more clutter than filth.

[elegantlion]

I'm not going to quote anybody because this is a general question for people that think CPS should have gotten them help/training on cleaning/monitored the situation. If two grown adults are using the bathtub as a toilet and have for a while (weeks?!?!?! based on the pictures) how can training help that? That's not a situation of "my mother never taught me how to keep house". That's something else. What? I don't know. But I can't imagine any adult in the US (or anywhere for that matter) that thinks it's okay to have WEEKS of sewage sitting open in your house with small children in the house.

 

The article said mom was drunk, I didn't know about dad. But the first intervention would be rehab, imo. I don't know about after that, do social services have housekeeping programs? I think screening for mental illness would be part of it as well. I've known more than a few functional drunks or druggies who would NEVER live in those conditions.

 

I wonder if they own or rent? You'd think if they rented, they'd call the landlord to fix the plumbing. Maybe they knew they'd be in trouble if they did. If they own, maybe they didn't have the money for a plumber, maybe they didn't care.