Feeling poorer/political conversations in your life

[swimmermom3]

I have been thinking about this thread all day. First, because the members of this community have become important to me over the past few years and my heart goes out to those who are struggling in this economy.

 

Second, because several posters alluded to larger issues, but honored the forum rules regarding political discussions, I find myself brimming over with questions. I know this isn't the place to ask most of them, except maybe this one:

 

In your real life, are you able to hold honest political conversations with those who may not share your point of view? Please tell me that some of you are able to sit down at a dinner table somewhere and discuss politics with friends that may not hold similar viewpoints and that you are able to learn from each other.

 

You know those threads we sometimes have on this board - the really good ones where the topic is important and those with opposing viewpoints are courteous and respectful in asking and answering questions - that's what I am looking for. Is that possible is this political climate? How does a person grow intellectually or how does one improve one's marriage or a nation without honest, thoughtful, courteous conversation and skillful debate?

 

Does my frustration show?

[stripe]

You know, I think one interesting effort to encourage courteous, productive dialogue is Krista Tippett's Civil Conversations Project.

http://www.onbeing.org/ccp

 

I haven't been able to stand talking to many people for a while, because so many times, it's not a conversation -- it's sort of angry accusations or declarations or assumptions that anyone who thinks differently is stupid or bad. But I would like to. I don't like talking to angey types who share my views. I really like when someone helps me see an issue in a totally different way.

[jenL]

In short, NOPE.

 

And, I really hate it. I feel as if the dividing lines are so drawn in this country right now, or at least in the area in which I live.

[MelAR05]

In your real life, are you able to hold honest political conversations with those who may not share your point of view? Please tell me that some of you are able to sit down at a dinner table somewhere and discuss politics with friends that may not hold similar viewpoints and that you are able to learn from each other.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, absolutely not. Oh, how I wish we could though.

 

What is the psychology behind people's emotions concerning politics? What makes people so passionate and angry about their political views?

[TammyS]

it's sort of angry accusations or declarations or assumptions that anyone who thinks differently is stupid or bad.

 

:iagree:

 

And on the flip side of that, the AUTOMATIC ASSUMPTION that because you think/behave differently you think that THEY are bad or stupid, even though you never said or thought any such thing. So frustrating!!:banghead:

[butterflymommy]

I can't engage in political discussions with my husband because he uses relentless ad hominim attacks and contradicts himself endlessly. I think he does it (the contradicting) intentionally to be confusing.

 

I can have decent political conversations with my sister even when our viewpoints differ.

 

Can't talk to my mom about politics because she's a hypocrite-- espouses one party line but actually lives the other.

 

I can't discuss politics with my dad because he just erupts into a screaming rage.

 

So my sister wins.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Frequently, although I will not participate in discussions on FB for any reason. In person, it si quite easy to have a rational discussion with someone I know. Facebook, like this board, makes the give and take much more difficult, and common ground is often lost.

[MSNative]

Yes. Actually, today I had one with my exterminator. He started out commenting on two houses at the end of my street that are have dueling yard signs. He then started telling me how he supported "X" but was not that happy about it. I asked him what is top concern was in this election. He told me - economy/energy policy. We chatted about the candidates different policies. We both laughed and stayed very pleasant through the whole conversation. That I think is the key. Talking and listening to people not trying to converting them. My family is quite mixed politically. Years of fiery family meals taught us that we won't change anyone's opinions. :) Now we share our opinions and pass the bean dip (red wine in my house) when things get out of line.

 

BTW - I agree with your main point. It is unfortunate that we are becoming so divided as a country.

[CupOCoffee]

I never engage in political discussions with anyone! Life if more pleasant that way. I have eaten and served bowls and bowls full of bean dip the last few weeks! :D

[a27mom]

I have been able to to some degree. Most of these conversation occur when we acknowledge that I am not going to change their opinion and they aren't going to change mine. The goal is to understand, not convert the other person

[cdrumm4448]

I have exactly one liberal friend. We can discuss politics without resorting to character assassination.

[Impish]

Honestly, it's an aspect of the US experience that I can't relate to.

 

Here, I haven't ever had to deal w/anyone rabidly defending one candidate or slagging another. Canadians really don't get into our politicians personal lives to the extent that the US does. I couldn't pick our PM's wife or kids out of a photo line up w/a gun to my head...heck, I don't even know their names! Or what religion they are. I *think* our PM has 2 boys, but that's only b/c I vaguely remember something about them playing hockey and him attending a game.

 

I think one of the reasons that we don't get heated is that our elections are so much shorter. Our last federal election was called, campaigned and over in about 6 wks? 2 mths? Something like that. I remember the US was in political debates and campaigning before and after ours was over and done w/. I think the amt of time spent on the campaign trail means more time and $ devoted to riling ppl up.

 

The other thing too is that I don't think I've ever known someone that was a dedicated, life long, family generations one party or another. (Unless they're in Quebec :tongue_smilie:)

 

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just what my experiences have been, having lived in 2 very different politically provinces.

 

At most, you'll hear someone say, "I prefer not to talk about politics." and the other person apologizes.

[HappyCrazyMama]

I never engage in political discussions with anyone! Life if more pleasant that way. I have eaten and served bowls and bowls full of bean dip the last few weeks! :D

:iagree:

 

When growing up, I was instructed that one doesn't discuss religion nor politics in polite company. I still try to abide by that rule.

:iagree: I wasn't really taught that but my parents were not really into politics. I do try to abide by this rule. If others bring it up I will politely state my opinion and attempt to change the subject.

[Bang!Zoom!]

If you step back and make the distinction between political science/history (as an absolute discipline with rules, systems, laws) and then compare it with immediate conversational current events..it makes it much clearer.

 

One is smile and pass the bean dip and the other is an all night coffee house fest.

[FO4UR]

I have a loved one who is growing older, dementia has taken much of him. It makes him feel good, like he's still a valid part of the family, to have a good heated political conversation.

 

 

I have another family member who just truly enjoys the process of debate. I do too, if I am honest. We can go around and remain friendly. There is mutual respect there. I respect his right to be wrong...and he does mine.:lol:

 

 

I avoid politics with most people though. Or, more often nowadays, look for common ground to focus on (the diplomatic middle child that I am:tongue_smilie:)...while whipping up some Bean Dip on the side. "Oh, look at the bird!" may have come out of my mouth a time or two...my ingredients for Bean Dip are in low supply.

[Stacia]

In short, NOPE.

 

And, I really hate it. I feel as if the dividing lines are so drawn in this country right now, or at least in the area in which I live.

 

:iagree:

[Amy in NH]

In your real life, are you able to hold honest political conversations with those who may not share your point of view? Please tell me that some of you are able to sit down at a dinner table somewhere and discuss politics with friends that may not hold similar viewpoints and that you are able to learn from each other.

 

 

Does my frustration show?

 

No, I'm not. The disinformation and outright lies that so many of my friends get from particular sources and then spout off as rationale for their political reasoning makes it impossible. There is no room for intelligent discussion when you are dealing with the irrational. As a moderate Independent, I get very frustrated by hardline ideological hatred... it seems like no matter what "the other side" says or does it will just never be okay. I heard someone say today that at one time a good idea was a good idea regardless of who had it - but I think people can't see a good idea anymore unless it comes from someone within their political party.

 

It is extremely frustrating.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Amy in NH

[GWOB]

I can have an honest, intelligent, rational political discussion with exactly 2 people whose views differ from my own. Everyone else somehow ends up saying I am going to hell for my views. I would love to have an intelligent conversation with someone from the other side, but thing get so ugly so very fast.

[stripe]

I have an elderly relative who has an opinion about EVERYTHING, including politics. And she never votes! Never! It boggles the mind.

[butterflymommy]

BTW - I agree with your main point. It is unfortunate that we are becoming so divided as a country.

 

I don't find it unfortunate at all. I think it would be dangerous for everyone to constantly agree with one another. At a certain point conflict is necessary to maintain equanimity. It reminds me of something a rabbi once told me-- in rabbinical school one assignment was to write arguments both for and against 40 different issues, with equal passion for both the "pro" and "con" sides. This was one of the final requirements before being ordained.

[Mommyof4ks]

In short, no. Some people I have run across get their political info from media in short sound bites, so issues are warped at best. With all of the .gov sites that publish proposed legislation and voting records of our leaders it is easy to find information, yet some do not look at it. Politicians can say whatever they like, but their records don't lie, and at the end of the day the laws are what we have to live by, not the promises made during a campaign for any office, not just the big obvious one. It is hard to have a conversation with someone who wants to discuss promises, because I am not able to predict the future, just look up the past. :D

[caroljenn]

Sometimes, depends on how grown up the other person is! I have a couple of friends on FB who are on the absolute other end of the political spectrum, and they post and comment, and we usually just shake our heads at each other and say, "well you know I disagree, but how did that lasagna turn out last night?" Other people, though, are so angry! Like the other response said, they think you are calling them stupid or bad because you don't agree with them. Had one gal, who I have known since the 7th grade that I had to de friend, because every time I said anything at all, or even "liked" a photo, she would go on a rampage. It was unbelievable. And the funny thing is her value system is completely twisted around and hypocritical. Is sad people can act that way- and it's upsetting for those on the receiving end, I'll tell you that!

[swimmermom3]

You know, I think one interesting effort to encourage courteous, productive dialogue is Krista Tippett's Civil Conversations Project.

http://www.onbeing.org/ccp

 

I haven't been able to stand talking to many people for a while, because so many times, it's not a conversation -- it's sort of angry accusations or declarations or assumptions that anyone who thinks differently is stupid or bad. But I would like to. I don't like talking to angey types who share my views. I really like when someone helps me see an issue in a totally different way.

 

Thank you very much for the link. I think I will take some time this evening to listen to the program on debt.

 

My experience is very similar to yours and the part in bold in important to me. I don't need to have my views validated and I don't wish to "convert" anyone. What I need is a better level of understanding. Fifty years of living and nearly twenty five years of marriage has taught me that it is impossible to have any type of long-term relationship that is meaningful and productive where one partner has all the "right" answers and the other partner has all the "wrong" thoughts.

[QueenCat]

I have a few friends that I can talk politics with, which is good, as I do enjoy a respectful conversation on debatable topics. But I know who not to "go there" with too. Generally, it's limited to my closest friends.

[GWOB]

Thank you very much for the link. I think I will take some time this evening to listen to the program on debt.

 

My experience is very similar to yours and the part in bold in important to me. I don't need to have my views validated and I don't wish to "convert" anyone. What I need is a better level of understanding. Fifty years of living and nearly twenty five years of marriage has taught me that it is impossible to have any type of long-term relationship that is meaningful and productive where one partner has all the "right" answers and the other partner has all the "wrong" thoughts.

 

:iagree: Exactly. I don't want my own views praised. I want to be legitimately challenged, in a reasonable, logical manner. That's how I learn and grow. I want to know how the other side thinks. I want to understand. Don't give me fear-mongering crud. Tell me what you think and why you feel that way. I don't think everyone across the aisle is stupid. There are some seriously intelligent guys/gals over there!

 

And I wish politics and religion was not off the table of discussion. Those are the best, most challenging conversations. I just my curl up and die if I have to engage in another vapid conversation about recipes or decorating. I wish I could be real with the people around me instead of hiding my political/religious sympathies.

[LucyStoner]

 

In your real life, are you able to hold honest political conversations with those who may not share your point of view? Please tell me that some of you are able to sit down at a dinner table somewhere and discuss politics with friends that may not hold similar viewpoints and that you are able to learn from each other.

 

You know those threads we sometimes have on this board - the really good ones where the topic is important and those with opposing viewpoints are courteous and respectful in asking and answering questions - that's what I am looking for. Is that possible is this political climate? How does a person grow intellectually or how does one improve one's marriage or a nation without honest, thoughtful, courteous conversation and skillful debate?

 

 

Yes, I can and do. I don't take political disagreement personally. Provided someone is not racist or a proponent of violence, I can listen to and even learn from views that I don't agree with. I come from a very diverse politics-wise family. From socialist to labor democrat to country club republican to right wing libertarian to single issue abortion voter to apolitical to strangely anarchist, it can be found in my family tree. It gets even more varied in my circle of friends. I have some very close friends who share few of my political beliefs. I think mutual respect, the ability to not demonize differences and willingness to hear things you don't like are key. I would rather discuss issues with someone who I disagree with than someone in lockstep with me because the latter situation becomes a ***** session, IYKWIM.

 

That said, I am glad that my husband and I have mostly simpatico views. I had a very different from me politically wise person persue me romantically and I was like, um yeah I have no desire to live out a talking heads debate show over dinner every night. Fiscally I veer a touch more conservative than my husband but socially I am perhaps a tiny bit more liberal. We we drawn together by shared feminist values and similar tastes in art and music, electoral politics is not a frequent topic between us and that is just fine.

[Alte Veste Academy]

In your real life, are you able to hold honest political conversations with those who may not share your point of view? Please tell me that some of you are able to sit down at a dinner table somewhere and discuss politics with friends that may not hold similar viewpoints and that you are able to learn from each other.

 

How does a person grow intellectually or how does one improve one's marriage or a nation without honest, thoughtful, courteous conversation and skillful debate?

 

Yes, with all my good friends, because of the bolded. I have no interest in a friendship with someone who can't be honest with me, challenge me, demand that I put my thinking cap...and vice versa.

 

Some people I have run across get their political info from media in short sound bites, so issues are warped at best. With all of the .gov sites that publish proposed legislation and voting records of our leaders it is easy to find information, yet some do not look at it. Politicians can say whatever they like, but their records don't lie, and at the end of the day the laws are what we have to live by, not the promises made during a campaign for any office, not just the big obvious one. It is hard to have a conversation with someone who wants to discuss promises, because I am not able to predict the future, just look up the past. :D

 

This is the thing that makes me cranky. I have friends who have "surface" beliefs based on sound bites. We can still talk and be civil. We just talk superficially. :tongue_smilie: With my friends who dig deep, the talk is deep and the take-away is, of course, much more engaging for both sides.

 

:iagree: Exactly. I don't want my own views praised. I want to be legitimately challenged, in a reasonable, logical manner. That's how I learn and grow. I want to know how the other side thinks. I want to understand. Don't give me fear-mongering crud. Tell me what you think and why you feel that way. I don't think everyone across the aisle is stupid. There are some seriously intelligent guys/gals over there!

 

Yes, yes, yes, YES. We could be great friends, you and I. Even if you are on The Other Side. :tongue_smilie:

 

That's a joke, obviously. But seriously, one of my greatest pet peeves about politics is the idea that you have to choose sides. I can't do it. On a, b, and c, I am a Democrat. On x, y, and z, I am a Republican. I am not a cardboard cutout of a donkey or elephant that you can paint red or blue. I am a big ol' 3D purple donkephant. :lol:

 

It can't be too political if I'm mixed-party, right? :D

[Rosie_0801]

Honestly, it's an aspect of the US experience that I can't relate to.

Here either. I don't know anyone who thinks well of the Opposition leader, though opinions vary on how well the government is performing. Conversations about politics don't need to get out of hand. We have a national hobby of blaming the government, so any conversation can reach a compromise with "bloody politicians." Everyone agrees with that. :tongue_smilie:

 

The American system seems strange to us. There's a whole lot of publicly airing things we don't think are our business. The idea of people who don't belong to a political party voting on who gets to run the parties seems strange. And some of our minor parties have real power. I like having a hung parliament.

 

Rosie

Edited October 19, 2012 by Rosie_0801

[GWOB]

Yes, with all my good friends, because of the bolded. I have no interest in a friendship with someone who can't be honest with me, challenge me, demand that I put my thinking cap...and vice versa.

 

 

 

This is the thing that makes me cranky. I have friends who have "surface" beliefs based on sound bites. We can still talk and be civil. We just talk superficially. :tongue_smilie: With my friends who dig deep, the talk is deep and the take-away is, of course, much more engaging for both sides.

 

 

 

Yes, yes, yes, YES. We could be great friends, you and I. Even if you are on The Other Side. :tongue_smilie:

 

That's a joke, obviously. But seriously, one of my greatest pet peeves about politics is the idea that you have to choose sides. I can't do it. On a, b, and c, I am a Democrat. On x, y, and z, I am a Republican. I am not a cardboard cutout of a donkey or elephant that you can paint red or blue. I am a big ol' 3D purple donkephant. :lol:

 

It can't be too political if I'm mixed-party, right? :D

 

I am an Independent at heart. The only reason I registered as a Democrat is because, in my state, only Democrats caucus. I really just wanted to participate in a caucus. Shallow, I know, but it sounded really cool at the time:tongue_smilie:. You and I would get along so very well! Of he 4 people to whom I speak regularly, 1 is only a fiscal conservative, 1 is pretty consistently Republican, 1 is devoutly Catholic and feels more Republican than anything else, and one is a bleeding-heart Liberal not voting Democrat this time. I love all those ladies! They make me think. I kinda like to think.

[Pawz4me]

I have friends who have "surface" beliefs based on sound bites.

 

Whether I can talk to someone or not depends on the person. Unfortunately, most people in my circle are like the above -- they hold superficial/surface beliefs fed to them by the biased media of their choice and have little to no real knowledge about what's going on in politics and even less knowledge about how our government works. And they aren't really interested in learning more. Meanwhile, DH, the boys and I had a very interesting conversation last night about what would happen if the electoral college ended up in a tie and why votes in smaller states actually "count" more. Most people I talk to in real life don't even know what the electoral college is. :001_huh:

[Impish]

Here either. I don't know anyone who thinks well of the Opposition leader, though opinions vary on how well the government is performing. Conversations about politics don't need to get out of hand. We have a national hobby of blaming the government, so any conversation can reach a compromise with "bloody politicians." Everyone agrees with that. :tongue_smilie:

 

The American system seems strange to us. There's a whole lot of publicly airing things we don't think are our business. The idea of people who don't belong to a political party voting on who gets to run the parties seems strange. And some of our minor parties have real power. I like having a hung parliament.

 

Rosie

I *prefer* to have a minority government. Keeps their butts in line, not being able to pass whatever loopy idea crosses their minds.

 

Bloody politicians indeed ;)

[Donna]

I agree that the dividing lines are so drawn it is impossible to have a calm, rational discussion with anyone I know. I just keep my thoughts to myself.

 

It seems that for some people, if you have the opposing view, you are somehow immoral, not intelligent, or are full of hate. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with issues and what you feel should be done about them. I have seen these types of discussions among my friends on Facebook and chose not to participate.

[Jane in NC]

My neighbor is of the opposite political persuasion. We have realized that we cannot discuss national or state politics but we mostly agree with each other on the local level. So we talk politics--mostly local. Now occasionally those conversations stray out of the local zone, sometimes gracefully, sometimes not. But at least we can say that we have found some common ground. It is a start.

 

My greatest discomfort comes not from discussions but from assumptions. There are those who assumed that I shared their religious beliefs because I homeschooled. :confused:

[LisaKinVA]

Yes... I can. My aunt and uncle (from MN) are very political...however, when we talk about issues, we often see things the same way. I think they have gotten into such a habit of voting for one party, that they really haven't recognized that the ideals on the policy we both support aren't supported by the person (or people) they throw their vote behind. The other side is *always* wrong.

 

The cognitive dissonance between what many people I know claim to want/believe, and what they vote to support is unreal. And, some of the reasons I've heard for people voting for (or against) a person are very shallow or myopic.

[Joanne]

No. :glare:

 

My life has taken paths that have turned upside down political perspectives I used to hold. I have not been able to discuss that with anyone.

 

Even my husband, when he was more able to have intelligent discussions, stayed stalwart about health care: It's HIS fault for not having kept health insurance and because he was overweight. We are $100k in medical debt, he's probably going to die before he gets a new liver, his care was delayed and compromised because he was uninsured and is now uninsurable.

 

And I do not have anyone in my circle to talk to regarding the related political issues.

[Joyofsixreboot]

I never engage in political discussions with anyone! Life if more pleasant that way. I have eaten and served bowls and bowls full of bean dip the last few weeks! :D

 

:iagree:

Serving the bean dip here too. I'm seeing friendships fractured over this stuff :001_huh:

[Mrs Mungo]

No, I'm not. The disinformation and outright lies that so many of my friends get from particular sources and then spout off as rationale for their political reasoning makes it impossible. There is no room for intelligent discussion when you are dealing with the irrational. As a moderate Independent, I get very frustrated by hardline ideological hatred... it seems like no matter what "the other side" says or does it will just never be okay. I heard someone say today that at one time a good idea was a good idea regardless of who had it - but I think people can't see a good idea anymore unless it comes from someone within their political party.

 

It is extremely frustrating.

 

:iagree: I see a lot of this.

 

I also see a lot of cognitive dissonance. Your family is only surviving right now due to unemployment and state provided insurance for the low-income, but your Facebook rants are all anti-collectivism. Really?

[TravelingChris]

I don't start political discussions with anyone outside my family. Now, I do know people who start them and inevitably, it seems they are always the same political party as me. I was in Canada and this couple from Minnessota started talking to us. WHen they found out we homeschooled, they started ralling against the public schools where they live which led to them admitting that they are ____, the same party as we are.

[Carrie12345]

Well, my aunt and I dabble in political conversation, but NOT during election time! We need to keep it way more general than can be done at voting time. It has gotten heated a few times, but we love each other enough to take some time to cool down and regroup by gossiping about other family members. ;)

[stripe]

I don't find it unfortunate at all. I think it would be dangerous for everyone to constantly agree with one another. At a certain point conflict is necessary to maintain equanimity. It reminds me of something a rabbi once told me-- in rabbinical school one assignment was to write arguments both for and against 40 different issues, with equal passion for both the "pro" and "con" sides. This was one of the final requirements before being ordained.

While I agree with you that I don't think it's healthy if everyone sees issues in exactly the same way, I think what's dangerous is the conviction that "we" are right and everything about our views is perfect, and "they" are wrong, bad people, with absolutely nothing correct, not even their motivation -- in fact, their whole purpose is to ruin everything. That to me is rooted in a sort of thinking that I think is troubling: that the person who sees the issue differently is morally suspect and should be pilloried.

 

I thought, for example, it was disturbing that the background of the young woman who asked the question at the debate about women's pay is being delved into, and her character is being smeared. It really doesn't matter who the woman is, as far as I am concerned. She was at the debate to ask a question of the candidates. Why does slinging mud at her advance anyone, much less an understanding of pay equity or women's finances? That is the sort of thing I had in mind, but even more so because it's being done in public.

 

My greatest discomfort comes not from discussions but from assumptions. There are those who assumed that I shared their religious beliefs because I homeschooled. :confused:

 

Yes, I have had a stay at home mother want me to join in bashing working women (not going to happen, I think it's important women work, I am just not working now, but I don't identify myself as a lifelong housewife). It made me cranky. Of course, she also wanted me and my husband to applaud that her kids got married to someone from their own ethnic background (neither of us share this background) -- I mean, seriously, we're a mixed couple, how important does that look like it was to either of us?? And I have had people of the same religion assume I shared their political views, which I sooooooo did not, particularly given the flimsy and poor reasoning behind it.

Edited October 19, 2012 by stripe

[QuirkyKapers]

While I agree with you that I don't think it's healthy if everyone sees issues in exactly the same way, I think what's dangerous is the conviction that "we" are right and everything about our views is perfect, and "they" are wrong, bad people, with absolutely nothing correct, not even their motivation -- in fact, their whole purpose is to ruin everything. That to me is rooted in a sort of thinking that I think is troubling: that the person who sees the issue differently is morally suspect and should be pilloried.

 

:iagree:Yes, this thinking frustrates me. Many people I know vote for their candidate based on one issue. For example, life vs. killing. What if you don't support killing of any kind, no matter what age? If you don't vote for what they see as supporting life, than you are vilified. (I am not saying a person shouldn't vote for what they think, I just think there is too much judgement when another person doesn't vote they same way as them. I have my reasons for my vote, just like another person has a reason for theirs. Please don't make my vote not count because I don't see the same way as you.)

[justamouse]

Yes, we do, but it's because we really love and respect each other, and when you hold those things forefront, conversation can be very respectful and stretching.

[justamouse]

I don't find it unfortunate at all. I think it would be dangerous for everyone to constantly agree with one another. At a certain point conflict is necessary to maintain equanimity. It reminds me of something a rabbi once told me-- in rabbinical school one assignment was to write arguments both for and against 40 different issues, with equal passion for both the "pro" and "con" sides. This was one of the final requirements before being ordained.

 

that goes back to Bill's point a few days ago on how the Jewish culture can sustain a lot of argument and still remain cohesive--which is something we should learn.

[justamouse]

And I wish politics and religion was not off the table of discussion. Those are the best, most challenging conversations. I just my curl up and die if I have to engage in another vapid conversation about recipes or decorating. I wish I could be real with the people around me instead of hiding my political/religious sympathies.

 

:iagree:

[flyingiguana]

Nope. Now and then the relatives try, but it usually consists of sending a video that would be "good for me to see", but is so deceitful and manipulative that I just can't take the other side seriously.

 

If the other side wants my sympathy and possible understanding, they're going to have to appeal to reason. I'm a statistician and a scientist, folks. I can see through things really easily. Send me lies and I'll think even less of your position.

 

Manipulative deceitful ads on "my" side bug the heck out of me too. I look past them (or try to) and just focus on the facts. Which is how I try to come by my opinions, despite what ridiculousness floats around the internet.

 

This kind of bugs my kids, who find that I can poke holes in any political argument, even the ones they think I'm supporting.

[YourFidgetyFriend]

I can, but I think it's easier for me because I am wayyyyyy far to one side, so both major parties look like varying degrees of moderate conservative to moderate to me. I think most of the contention is between people who are closer in viewpoint in the overall scheme of things than they would ever believe since we don't have a huge far right and almost no far left.

Edited October 19, 2012 by YourFidgetyFriend

[aggie96]

I am not a cardboard cutout of a donkey or elephant that you can paint red or blue. I am a big ol' 3D purple donkephant. :lol:

 

It can't be too political if I'm mixed-party, right? :D

 

I LOVE this! I am very fortunate to be able to discuss ANYTHING with my close neighbors/friends. We have hung out and discussed everything under the sun EVERY Friday night in our garage for the last 10 years! We almost never agree on anything, but, boy, the discussions are fun, respectful, and fulfilling (and sometimes rowdy, too). :)

 

I wonder if DH will let me make and display a HUGE purple donkephant on our lawn like the support signs on everyone else's. :) I LOVE this!

 

 

ETA: And anyone is welcome to join us when you're in our neck of the 'burbs. :) It's Bring Your Chair and Drinks (anything from water to moonshine). The kids can join our brood for play or movies. ...what happens in the garage, stays in the garage. :)

Edited October 19, 2012 by aggie96

[Georgiana Daniels]

I wish Wish WISH I could talk with people irl about politics, but it can't happen. The people I refer to are ones whose opinions I respect, deeply, and would love to hear what they think. But it won't happen without a fight. It's too bad that I know that first hand.

[Georgiana Daniels]

Yeah that's true here, most of the time people who start them with me know me enough to know I probably agree with them. But I'm always kinda surprised when it appears that someone thinks I will agree with them and they couldn't be more wrong. My violin teacher, who I joke around a lot with and we talk about stuff, made a passing political comment which made it pretty apparent he thought I'd agree. I didn't say anything in return, just sort of laughed it off. But wow he couldn't be more off if he thinks I'm of the same mindset. I simply didn't bite. I don't particularly care if he agrees with me politically, but I also don't really want to talk about it with him either. I just scratched my head how I gave off the vibe that I'd agree. KWIM?

 

I agree with the bolded! In our town everyone assumes everyone else leans a certain direction. I've learned to smile and not engage. Now that I think on it, so, so many in our town are rabid in their politics.

[Karen in CO]

You know, the people I have the best political and religious discussions with are my kids. Since ds has gone to college, he has become one of my favorite people to discuss politics with. He has that youthful idealism and wider point of view from living abroad. He's also spent three years studying international political science. He is awesome to talk to. He also hold different religious views than I do. We always had great discussions while he was homeschooling, but now that he's adult it is even better. My girls are making great progress in discussions also. I love that they are interesting people.

 

For adults.....There are people I can talk about religion with, and people I can talk about politics with, and people I can debate courteously with. AND there are people that I know are so very different, that I would never bring up either at the risk of not being able to share a good conversation and risk loss of small friendship. Most days, I don't talk in person to anyone but my kids and dh so any person that I have IRL that I can talk with is too precious to risk over politics. I'll just raise up more intelligent people to have these discussions with.