JaneP Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 A lot of you were mentioning your church has a policy of two teachers per children's class. I don't think our church has an official policy but it seems that children under five or six have a teacher and an assistant but the children over this age generally have one teacher. What is the policy or practice at your church? Are you happy with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two teachers (or two parents or two adults...) at all times. Seems fine to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Two adults for any class/group with students/children under the age of 18. If someone needs to take a child to the bathroom, they go, leaving the classroom door open, until they get back, so one adult might be in there for a couple of minutes. The two adults can be married/related but are not always (Dh and I taught together last school year). Our policies work fine for our church. Added after reading others: We do background checks every 3 years. Volunteers under the age of 18 can work in the nursery/toddler/children rooms but do NOT count as part of the two adults, and they cannot take the children to the bathroom on their own. Edited September 18, 2012 by CathieC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassoonaroo Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two adults for any class/group with students/children under the age of 18. If someone needs to take a child to the bathroom, they go, leaving the classroom door open, until they get back, so one adult might be in there for a couple of minutes. The two adults can be married/related but are not always (Dh and I taught together last school year). Our policies work fine for our church. This exactly at our church. Our co-op has the same policy but asks the ladies take the toddlers to the potty, not men, unless it's an emergency about to happen (you know, running a vomiting child to a nearby toilet by scooping the child and running) or his own child. We only have a few men involved in co-op so this is not usually an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There isn't a policy at all at our church. Usually only 1 adult is present during Sunday School because there aren't enough teachers to go around. It doesn't bother me. I trust these people with my kids or they wouldn't be going at all. Our church also doesn't do background checks on volunteers. If they are going to a trip, there are obviously more adults. My children are old enough to troll ne if someone is nappropriate with them and rarely are they ever alone with an adult because there are other kids around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabinfl Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We have a teacher and an assistant for all classes, at least up to middle school age. The assistant can be an adult or a high school student (usually on the older end, and for the younger kids). The only exception to this seems to be our Children's Church (worship time for 3yo - 1st grade, they leave the regular service after the children's message, about 15 mins. in). The longtime teacher for that manages on her own - usually only a half dozen kids and the classroom is adjacent to the bathroom. :) There are a few others floating around during that time, so she could get help quickly if she needed it. Everyone over 18 who is working with children must be background checked every 2-3 years. I don't know how much is official policy, but the younger kids having 2 adults present is mainly a practical matter - having someone available to handle bathroom trips, minor injuries, etc. w/out leaving the kids alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We keep our child with us in church, so I have no idea what their official policy is. But we did have our child in a church preschool program many years ago and they had a "two deep" policy and it didn't protect our child. :glare: The main teacher was the minister's wife. Her assistant was afraid to stand up and say anything. (The teacher was shaking young children.) I won't say more on a public forum, but it was an ugly situation. It has left me a bit unnerved about most daycare situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I don't go to church, but our Spiral Scouts group has a 2-deep policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyVal Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 2 adults in the room at all time. If it is a married couple, they only count as one and there will need to be an additional person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We keep our child with us in church, so I have no idea what their official policy is. Our classes are not during church services. Sunday School classes are offered for all age groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two teachers, and they all have to take a training on sexual abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) 2 adults in the room at all time. If it is a married couple, they only count as one and there will need to be an additional person. This is ours as well. ETA: background-checked and trained also. Edited September 18, 2012 by kebg11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two adults who have been trained in child protection and who have passed background checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two adults at all times. And our church tends to have it's mix of mom and dad volunteers, so there have been times that it has been 2 men. Which doesn't bother me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 2 adults in the room at all time. If it is a married couple, they only count as one and there will need to be an additional person. Our church tried to do no married couples for two deep but couldn't get enough volunteers that way. However, everyone gets a background check and safe sanctuaries training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Our church has a two-deep unmarried people policy, and they receive training. I think probably most churches with a heavy scouting presence do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We try to do 2 deep in every class, but it doesn't always happen. We do have ushers who roam the halls during class time and if a teacher needs help, the usher will assist. Men start teaching classes around 5th grade. But we also attend a smaller congregation so none of this is in stone, and all teachers must be approved by church elders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingChris Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We have a two deep policy and it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Our classes are not during church services. Sunday School classes are offered for all age groups. We don't do classes, just church services. I would love to find a church that offered multi-age/generational Bible study vs. traditional Sunday school. A PP mentioned that the teachers have received training about sexual abuse. I am actually more concerned about physical abuse. It only takes a moment for a child to be shaken, which is what happened to our child. One of the original questions was: Are you happy with your church policy? I don't use it, so that isn't applicable. But I don't think much of the 2-deep policy in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two adults for any class/group with students/children under the age of 18. If someone needs to take a child to the bathroom, they go, leaving the classroom door open, until they get back, so one adult might be in there for a couple of minutes. The two adults can be married/related but are not always (Dh and I taught together last school year). Our policies work fine for our church. Added after reading others: We do background checks every 3 years. Volunteers under the age of 18 can work in the nursery/toddler/children rooms but do NOT count as part of the two adults, and they cannot take the children to the bathroom on their own. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I never bothered to check. I go on gut instinct. It is extremely unlikely that a child will be molested by a relative stranger, in a group situation that lasts an hour or less, where anyone can barge in at any time. And as has been said above, I think it's more likely that an impatient granny or teen would be mean or rough with a child. That said, it so happens that my kids have never had a male Sunday School teacher so far. We've attended church / Sunday School from age 3-5 so far. Oh wait, I take that back. One of the moms who taught summer classes left her husband in charge (alone) some of the time, while she attended to other duties. It didn't concern me in the least. Even if there'd been a weird vibe (there wasn't), his twins were right there in the same room, so it would be quite a stretch to imagine him trying something with my daughters. I think most of these policies are to protect the church rather than the children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We only have one teacher per class. I believe you have to have a background check to volunteer. The chances of sa happening is pretty low when it's in a group setting that only lasts 1 hour. I'm not concerned. I wish there were more male teachers as I think they approach things differently and I think it helps show the boys how men can be involved in their lives too. I think my boys have both learned more with male teachers as the teacher tends to click with them better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We don't do classes, just church services. I would love to find a church that offered multi-age/generational Bible study vs. traditional Sunday school. A PP mentioned that the teachers have received training about sexual abuse. I am actually more concerned about physical abuse. It only takes a moment for a child to be shaken, which is what happened to our child. One of the original questions was: Are you happy with your church policy? I don't use it, so that isn't applicable. But I don't think much of the 2-deep policy in general. I have to admit to being puzzled about the bolded comment, especially in light of what happened to your child. (:grouphug:) It makes sense to me that abuse of any kind is less likely to occur with more than one adult present. Why would you not want to lower the risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MommyVal Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Yeah, ours have to go through background checks and training. Some of our favorite teachers have been men. However there was one male teacher that gave me the creeps. It wasn't because I thought he would abuse the kids, I thought he was WAY to rigid in some of his beliefs and I wasn't comfortable with it. I didn't pull the boys from class though because they were 2 and I didn't think that his beliefs would come into play during the hour class. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We are too small to have a two deep policy, but all of our classrooms have windows and they are never covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Nursery has 2-deep, no married unless 3rd party present, no 2 men. Nursery goes to 3-4, depending on parents. Background checks for most - if someone refuses background checks (or it can't be done in time) they only serve with someone who has been checked. This is usually only temporary & they don't serve on a regular basis. This policy is for the church's protection as much as for the kids. All other classes on have one teacher, male or female. Each classroom has a window on the door & people roam the halls checking if anyone needs help. Our church is really too small to have 2-deep for all classrooms. Oftentimes all the classes will be together for most of the time & just split for something more age-appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MominIN Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We have a small church. Our rule is no one on one. If your class only has one student (which does happen) then you combine with another. If we had to be two deep, we wouldn't have any classes! I know all the teachers well and trust them. All doors have a window and an adult is traveling around during sunday school taking attendance and collecting offering. The middle school class has a man teaching it, but nothing younger. A few men help their wives in the nursery. We have no rule about men teaching little ones, but the men in our church seem unwilling to teach anyone under middle school age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 A lot of you were mentioning your church has a policy of two teachers per children's class. I don't think our church has an official policy but it seems that children under five or six have a teacher and an assistant but the children over this age generally have one teacher. What is the policy or practice at your church? Are you happy with it? I would not be willing to volunteer in such an environment. Its too dangerous to me personally as well as to the church, for liability reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higginszoo Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Our church policy is two deep, background checks, and also mandatory training on abuse recognition for all adults working with children and/or at-risk adults (impaired, elderly, etc.) -- the initial course is 3 hours with 1 1/2 hour refreshers in our areas ... others have an initial course with ongoing continuing education. I'm happy with it. We always have people complain(especially scout parents who don't belong to our church but want to take advantage of the free meeting space -- a rare commodity around here) ... it is definitely as much for the church's protection as the children's, but I do know of several cases of abuse elsewhere being stopped due to a church worker recognising the signs from church training. Edited September 18, 2012 by higginszoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinchick Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We have a small church. Our rule is no one on one. If your class only has one student (which does happen) then you combine with another. If we had to be two deep, we wouldn't have any classes! This. DD's second grade class was taught by a man on Sunday, and I left her there without any misgivings whatsoever. DH has taught fifth/sixth grade, and whenever there's only been one student, he has brought the child back to church to spend the service with his/her family. I've taught younger grades and have never had only one child in class (I think it happens more in the older grades), but I would have combined with another class if that had happened. Not just for safety/propriety, but also so that the child could have more fun and get more out of the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaneP Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) I would not be willing to volunteer in such an environment. Its too dangerous to me personally as well as to the church, for liability reasons. Wow... I had never thought about it like that... but I do see your point. (I had been considering the issue from my position as a parent) Edited September 18, 2012 by JaneP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Seriously, I'm wondering if those who "know" your people at church realize that churches.... and SPOUSES are the ones who most abuse. Seriously!! I know SO many girls (and there are boys) who were abused by their DADS (and some step dads) and ELDERS in the church. Said in the nicest way I can... If you think you KNOW someone and that means they won't do anything to your child, you need to think about the verse: Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Oh, so here are the people.... My friend in college by the elder at the church her dad pastored. My cousin by her step-dad, my best friend from childhood... her husband to her daughter (bio dad to bio daughter) (and this had been generational.... his father to his sister... him to his sister) These are just off the top of my head... I always want 2 adults or almost adults with my children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 When I was about 14/15, I taught Sunday School with my teen brother and sister. I guess that wouldn't go over too well nowadays! Yet, kids actually aren't any safer, are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Seriously, I'm wondering if those who "know" your people at church realize that churches.... and SPOUSES are the ones who most abuse. Seriously!! I know SO many girls (and there are boys) who were abused by their DADS (and some step dads) and ELDERS in the church. Said in the nicest way I can... If you think you KNOW someone and that means they won't do anything to your child, you need to think about the verse: Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Oh, so here are the people.... My friend in college by the elder at the church her dad pastored. My cousin by her step-dad, my best friend from childhood... her husband to her daughter (bio dad to bio daughter) (and this had been generational.... his father to his sister... him to his sister) These are just off the top of my head... I always want 2 adults or almost adults with my children. You are right that spouses and churches are the worst for abuse, but those scenarios are usually in a one on one setting. Not with a group of children. I would never think it ok for another adult to be spending one on one time with my child at church. When there are 10 kid in the room, no adult is going to try anything s*exually abusive. Besides, having more than one adult with a child is no assurance that the child will not be hurt. My worst nightmares happened with at least 3 adults present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellydon Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The policy is that there are always at least two teachers. They are never related - a husband wife and work together, but another teacher/assistant wold always be present as well. Men can work but are always paired with a female assistant or teacher. The church also follows policies for ratio of kids. 4-9 months, 3 babies per adult- lots of adults in that room. 9-12 months 4 babies per adult. 12-18 months, 4 babies per adult. 18 months-2 year, 4 babies per adult. 2-3 years and 3-4 years each have 6 toddlers per adult, maximum 12 in the room (there are 16 rooms for these two age groups). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 A PP mentioned that the teachers have received training about sexual abuse. I am actually more concerned about physical abuse. It only takes a moment for a child to be shaken, which is what happened to our child. . The training at our church involves sexual, physical and emotional abuse. It also discusses appropriate classroom control strategies for various age groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Two teachers plus other policies supposed to ensure no adult is alone with another's child (get the parent if the child needs help using the potty in the nursery classes, for instance). I'm glad it's there, just in case. Edited September 18, 2012 by LittleIzumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Our official policy is no one on one- so two kids, one adult; one kid and two adults, ect. In reality we strive to have 2-3 adults in every room. The one adult situation usually comes up more with transportation- if you have one adult driving you need at least two kids in the vehicle at all times... Although usually all the seats in the van are full. We also background check anyone who volunteers with children. We have mandatory training on abuse of all kinds. We also have a good system in place for what to do if abuse is suspected or an allegation occurs- we have no in house investigation. It immediately goes to the authorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK_Mom4 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 When I was about 14/15, I taught Sunday School with my teen brother and sister. I guess that wouldn't go over too well nowadays! Yet, kids actually aren't any safer, are they? My oldest DD started teaching Sunday school when she was 14yo. The first year she had an older teen as an assistant and then the following years she had one of the adults in the church was in there with her. Teens make great teachers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I have to admit to being puzzled about the bolded comment, especially in light of what happened to your child. (:grouphug:) It makes sense to me that abuse of any kind is less likely to occur with more than one adult present. Why would you not want to lower the risk? I think it gives a false sense of security. Just my own opinion. I think for sexual abuse, it probably is good. But for physical abuse? I think most physical abusers are bullies and the other adult is likely to be intimidated into silence. (Which was certainly the case with our child. Our child's assistant teacher spoke quite a bit about being in fear of the main teacher.) Also, physical abuse often happens very quickly as an emotional response, out of anger/frustration. A child can be shaken in seconds. Unless the other adult is within arms length, they can't do much to protect the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarefootamazon Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Background check for anyone who works in the children's ministry as well as references to even be placed. Then you are required to have two adults at the least along with your helpers (who can be teens or adults). Only females 16 and older can change diapers and assist in the bathroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Our church does Reduce the Risk and background checks. We retake the class every 5 years and resign the papers every year. This is for everything under 18. 2 adults at all times. Adults cannot be related/married. DH is welcome to volunteer in the nursery with me, but we couldn't be the only 2 in there. During Sunday School hour, the smaller classes (also older kids - 1-3 grades and 4-6 grades) are able to get by with one teacher and the door is left open. There are also windows in the doors. If I'm in the nursery and someone tries to drop off their kid with me, I tell them they have to wait for someone else to get there. When I drop Pink off, I often wait and serve as the second RTR certified adult until the 2nd teacher arrives, allowing other parents to drop off their kids with the teacher and myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutTN Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Generally all children's classes have two teachers. All rooms have glass in the doors and every age group or area has a supervisor monitoring in the halls. Absolutely all nursery and preschool rooms have at least two adults, usually one paid caregiver and two teachers. Men do not change diapers or take children to the bathroom. All children's ministry volunteers and staff watch the Reducing the Risk video. Application process includes reference checks (yes, they really call) and background check. Sad, but necessary. Edited September 18, 2012 by ScoutTN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ipsey Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) At our church, I don't believe there were background checks. It was a small church. My husband and I began watching the 1-2 year olds in the toddler nursery. Actually, dh did it more than I did. He did it for a year while I was in infant nursery. He assisted the grandmother working in there. They were two deep. My husband was much loved, and parents seemed really happy for their to be a male there, who seemed to enjoy being around the children. He sang them silly songs and made up games for snack time. If ever I was in the nursery, watching infants (non-crawlers), and there were only one or two, I was often alone. Does this ever change? What about in public or private schools? In (public) junior high and high school, we often had male teachers. My 4th grader (ps) has a male teacher for his homeroom. I don't have a problem with this. For those of your who are strong about being two-deep, do you think all similar situations need two people? ETA: clarifying about public/private school Edited September 18, 2012 by Ipsey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Michelle* Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Our diocese (and probably most others in the country) has an extensive written policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Our church requires all adult volunteers who come into contact with children to take the child protection class and have a background check. They also require 2-deep leadership. If there is only one teacher, the parents take turns being the 2nd adult. When I was a catechist, I had a sign-up sheet for the parents. They had to sign in when it was their turn. If I didn't have a 2nd adult, I couldn't conduct class, so we had to either get another parent volunteer or send them home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 A lot of you were mentioning your church has a policy of two teachers per children's class. I don't think our church has an official policy but it seems that children under five or six have a teacher and an assistant but the children over this age generally have one teacher. What is the policy or practice at your church? Are you happy with it? At our church, I don't believe there were background checks. It was a small church. For those of your who are strong about being two-deep, do you think all similar situations need two people? I go to a very small church. We have roughly 100 members, with about 60 there on a given Sunday (including children). Many of us have been there for a long time. About 10 years ago we decided to have an official “child abuse prevention” policy. It states that we must have at least two adults in any class (they can be two males). We started doing background checks on anyone who works with kids. This includes people working with all youth under the age of 18.There are other parts to the policy, like having bathroom buddies and only using the changing table in full view of the nursery window, etc. We do allow youth to help in the younger classes but they do not count towards the two deep policy. We also have a policy that requires people to have been attending (not a member but attending) for some amount of time (I think it’s 6 months) before working with the youth. That part of the policy is occasionally waived on Session review depending on circumstances but it’s done to allow time for the background check and also to make sure that parents know the people working in the classes. We made that decision for two reasons. One, to protect the kids. But two, to protect the workers. Most of us trust each other. I might be leaving my child in a Sunday School class with a teacher who later in the week I’d be dropping my kids off at their house to play. I’m not worried about “two deep” when it’s a playdate so on level it seem silly at church. But we decided it was important to be formal about a policy and to be consistent. Sometimes this is a pain. I might have three kids in my Sunday School class. One is my own, the other two are kids of very close friends who I know would have no problem with just me there (or with dh there alone for that matter). If the assistant is sick and doesn’t come it’s a pain to find someone else, more so because the church is small. However, I do it to be consistent with the policy. It makes things easier in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristi26 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 The policy at our church is a minimum of 2 teachers per class at all times AND everyone has to have a background check done in order to serve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAPeachie Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Two always and at least one must be a church member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 *two unmarried adults (married couples can volunteer together, but there has to be another adult as well) *no one on one time with any child *background check for every person that volunteers *strict security system There are also windows on every room so parents can see what's going on in the classrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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