NanceXToo Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I am about to send this email out to my whole homeschool group (I'm the organizer of the group and the one who set this event up). Yes, I'm irritated and want to get a point across, but I don't want it to seem like I'm singling people out or lecturing people unnecessarily. So would you send it or wouldn't you? --- Subject: Please Treat Your RSVPs Like Any Other Commitment!!! I have to say, today's library program was pretty embarrassing for me. We had 17 kids and their parents signed up and two librarians taking time out of their work day to do this program for our group. Within a couple of days of the event, several families dropped out for various reasons, putting us from 17 kids to 9 kids attending. I contacted the head reference librarian this morning to let her know that we'd only have 9 kids attending instead of the scheduled 17 and that if that was still okay with them, we'd still be there. As it turned out, only my family (two kids) and one other family (one kid) attended. The other families with the six other kids between them never showed up. And, unfortunately, this is not the first time such a thing has happened with our group, so I feel that this needs to be said to everybody: Being a "no show" is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Nice as they were about it, I felt as if I had totally wasted those librarians' time today. If I had known only three kids would show up (and one of them only six years old), I would have just rescheduled the tour instead of leaving two librarians standing around waiting to see if their scheduled group was going to be there, while I made frantic phone calls ten minutes after a scheduled tour time to try to find out where people were and if they were coming. It was an awkward situation and not fair to the librarians or to me. I understand that things come up, people get sick, cars break down, or whatever the case may be. But generally speaking, an RSVP should be treated like any other appointment or commitment you have. You should make every effort to attend events you RSVP to, and if you cannot attend an event you RSVP'd to, you should go on the site and change your RSVP and/or call one of the organizers and let us know, as far in advance as possible. Unless it is the direst of emergencies and you have no other choice in the matter, please do NOT just leave people hanging around waiting for you at an event you have no intention of showing up to. There are times we delay starting a tour or program to give everyone a chance to get there, and if you're not coming, we waited for no reason. And there are times when not enough people are attending to make an event worthwhile and it is best to reschedule, as was the case today, and if you're not coming AND don't call or change your RSVP, then we do not have the opportunity to do so. Thank you for your understanding, Your Organizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'd send it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I think it's fine. Be prepared to be inundated with excuses though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clementine Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We have the same problem. Send it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 "Do not try to teach pigs to sing. You'll only frustrate yourself, and irritate the pigs." Franciscan Monk (its impish's sig) i reckon if this is happening more often than not, that its okay to stop organizing. really. if they want it, they'd be there, kwim? or if you ask them to give you five dollars for each booking, to be returned to them when they show up...... fwiw, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMDRAD Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would send it too. But I agree, you'll be hearing a lot of lame excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'd sent it also. I get so incredibly tired of that within the homeschooling community. Don't people understand how RUDE that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annandatje Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Your letter sounds just fine. However, I doubt it will change group behavior. I stopped trying to organize group trips after one too many of these types of experiences. We started going either by ourselves or just with another one or two families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yup, send it. Not only are they being rude to you and the librarians, they are doing their children a disservice by not teaching them commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well, that was enough validation for me! lol. Sent! Thank you! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirch Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Send it. I am considering sending a similar letter to my own group for pretty much the same thing. It's frustrating to put so much time and effort into organizing an event just to have everyone bail at the last minute. Not to mention the disappointment of the children who are excited to see their friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would send it. But my past experience says that unless there is a set consequence for missing -- no money refunded, not allowed to sign up for the next 3 trips, $10 fine, etc. -- the people involved will still see themselves as the exception because their excuse was reasonable. And nothing will change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skirch Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yup, send it. Not only are they being rude to you and the librarians, they are doing their children a disservice by not teaching them commitment.:iagree: Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't see anything wrong with it. Send away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Do it. I've BTDT and it is so frustrating and humiliating. It is disrespectful to be a "no-show". It also teaches the children that ones word is not really important. I've wrestled with the same problem in our homeschool groups and have found it even extends outside of the "school" aspect. These same people don't show for dinners, parties, or other functions. They are poor examples to their own children. My kids have been so frustrated by the so called "friendships" with these folks' kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caraway Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Oooooo, I want to hear the resulting feedback! :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusksAngel Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 One of the local homeschool groups here CANNOT make reservations around here because of this very reason. They have made reservations to be somewhere with x many people and it just wasn't happening. It is extremely rude and is just one more thing that gives homeschoolers a bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I see you already sent it, but I just wanted to say our group has had to send similar letters out. It is one of the frustrating things about homeschoolers. I don't know why so many hs'ers won't treat a trip or activity as a commitment. Sure, the unexpected happens, but this occurs in our community more than we like to admit, I think. We've also had to send out reminders that if you're the one setting up a trip and it requires payment, then collect the money up front. We've had too many organizers (newbies usually) stuck paying extra to make the minimum because someone didn't show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 :hurray: :hurray: I think it's perfect! You didn't single anyone out, you were obviously upset and embarrassed not just for yourself, but for the reputation of all homeschoolers. Yes, sounds like it was beyond time. Maybe this should be a sticky thread. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Absolutely send it. It's well written and direct but not rude. I had the same thing happen years ago when I was the "organizer" of a group. It was horrible. I wish I had sent the same letter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Rain Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have belonged to groups that require a $5 deposit for free field trips. I would say the dollar amount should probably be higher. It does make people take the RSVP more seriously. If you show up, you get your money back. If not, you forfeit the money. In this case, the forfeited money could have been donated to the library. If the venue isn't able to accept a donation, you could keep it for the group, or donate it somewhere else. Your letter looks great- be prepared for a flood of excuses. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denisemomof4 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 my homeschool group leader sent out a similar letter. It's SO rude to do this to people who are taking their time out of their day to accommodate the group. Many of these people do this on their own time and without pay. Even though the librarians likely DID receive pay, it was rude of the people to drop out without notifying you. Things greatly improved for our group after my leader sent out the note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momtokea Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Send it. I gave up on our homeschool group for this very reason. From what others have posted it seems to happen a lot within the homeschooling community. I find that so sad and discouraging. It really gives all homeschoolers a bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have belonged to groups that require a $5 deposit for free field trips. I would say the dollar amount should probably be higher. It does make people take the RSVP more seriously. If you show up, you get your money back. If not, you forfeit the money. In this case, the forfeited money could have been donated to the library. If the venue isn't able to accept a donation, you could keep it for the group, or donate it somewhere else. Your letter looks great- be prepared for a flood of excuses. ;) Our group began doing this. The leader set up a PayPal account, and if the deadline passed and she hadn't received payment from you either that way or by mail, you were removed from the event and the space was given to someone who really wanted to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wy_kid_wrangler04 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I had a similar situation 2 years ago. I had a thing set up with the police dept. They were going to give the kids a tour of the police station and police car. They were going to 'book' the kids and throw them in jail while talking to them also. We had 2 families show up INCLUDING us :glare: Talk about embarrassing. They called it off. I don't blame them. I was so frustrated because that would have been an awesome field trip!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Nance, I'm anxious to hear what responses you get from this note. I'm glad you sent it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Send it and then, just for our entertainment, let us know what responses you get! Our field trip group finally had to write out rules for everyone to agree to at the beginning of the year. Things adults should know like, be on time, you are in charge of your own children, BE ON TIME, etc. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmyopinion Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have belonged to groups that require a $5 deposit for free field trips. I would say the dollar amount should probably be higher. It does make people take the RSVP more seriously. If you show up, you get your money back. If not, you forfeit the money. In this case, the forfeited money could have been donated to the library. If the venue isn't able to accept a donation, you could keep it for the group, or donate it somewhere else. Your letter looks great- be prepared for a flood of excuses. ;) I like this idea. People are more apt to come if they have $ invested, and they are less likely to just "sign up" unless they have at least thought about it. Plus, if you have a lot of "no-shows" you can use that $ to send a Thank you gift! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita in NC Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This is why I am not big fan about setting up activities anymore. People are just flakey, they drop out at the last minute, no phone call, no email, they just don't show up. I'm sick of it. Even casual events where people that I'm pretty friendly with, say they will show up and then don't. No call, no email. Nothing. The kids get all disappointed that they don't have any friends to play with and we end up sitting there by ourselves. Three of my friends said they were meeting me at skating the other week and no one showed up. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I vote send it. I would have been embarrassed too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIzumi Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We had a very similar email sent to our local homeschool group recently, based on a factory trip (I think) with half the people not showing up. I do agree that sometimes a reminder is needed. :) Our note mentioned the extra worker the company brought in to handle the expected load, and the babysitter the extra worker had to hire to cover an off day, and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Ooh, I hate flakiness! So rude. :glare: The deposit idea sounds like a good one. How bad is the fallout? :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirch Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Send it and then, just for our entertainment, let us know what responses you get! Our field trip group finally had to write out rules for everyone to agree to at the beginning of the year. Things adults should know like, be on time, you are in charge of your own children, BE ON TIME, etc. I don't get it. The no-shows are bad enough, but I REALLY don't get having to tell people they are in charge of their own children. I mean, who do they THINK is going to supervise them?? Or are these generally people who just always let their kids run wild? It's nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundrycrisis Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm glad you sent it. I hope it works. The group I am involved with had a big time flakiness problem. Things improved when we started charging annual dues, getting stricter about RSVPs, having deadlines on RSVPs, and collecting in money advance for any events with a minimum required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A couple of things I've done or seen others do that seem to work..... 1) Refused future reservations from no shows who did not have a real emergency (death, major illness-- contagious). Do it once, and they'll get the picture. 2) Charge a deposit, returnable when they show. If they don't show, it is used for a thank you gift. 3) Ignore the rude ones who respond with excuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would send it. But my past experience says that unless there is a set consequence for missing -- no money refunded, not allowed to sign up for the next 3 trips, $10 fine, etc. -- the people involved will still see themselves as the exception because their excuse was reasonable. And nothing will change. :iagree: Nance, let us know how it goes. Also, will the way you organize change because of this experience? Count me in as another who stopped trying to do things like that for the same reasons. And even if it wasn't a field trip, I would still feel upset if I was expecting people and they didn't show up. There were park days when it was just me and one other family. My children and I got tired of being disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorrainejmc Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We have the same problem over here too. It's a global homeschoolers bad habit. :glare: I finally found another family who organizes activities only with like minded (reliable:D) families privately, not through our email list. :party: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoVanGogh Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It is one of the frustrating things about homeschoolers. I don't know why so many hs'ers won't treat a trip or activity as a commitment. Sure, the unexpected happens, but this occurs in our community more than we like to admit, I think.:iagree:I have had so many moms tell me, "Well, Johnny didn't get his school work done so I wouldn't let him go on the field trip." :glare: I don't get using a field trip as an incentive, nor punishing an entire group (and potentially giving the homeschool community a bad rep) because your child didn't get his school work done. Find something else to hold over his/her head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 :iagree:I have had so many moms tell me, "Well, Johnny didn't get his school work done so I wouldn't let him go on the field trip." :glare: I don't get using a field trip as an incentive, nor punishing an entire group (and potentially giving the homeschool community a bad rep) because your child didn't get his school work done. Find something else to hold over his/her head! Ugh, I agree .... Sorry, but it is rude for someone to leave me at the field trip place explaining the numbers went down for something like that. Find another way to punish them, not the group. Groups get punished by being denied future opportunities to make field trip reservations. It also gives the group a bad reputations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would send it. I also know this is a problem across the board. Because of this, my group instituted a policy that has helped. There is a $5 registration fee for every sign-up event. The $5 is refunded after the event. If you don't show up after you've registered, you forfeit the $5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macpuffins Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would send it. But my past experience says that unless there is a set consequence for missing -- no money refunded, not allowed to sign up for the next 3 trips, $10 fine, etc. -- the people involved will still see themselves as the exception because their excuse was reasonable. And nothing will change. I"m Canada w/ our socialized medicine, and clinic visits at our hospital are free to valid holders of provincial medicare. The clinics I attended today showed the cost of 1 missed appointment, and how many were missed in the previous calendar month. And the wait-time for appointments. It was a BIG sign, and in a rather un-missable location (where you had to stand to give the receptionist your medicare card). Just the one clinic I was at, the value of missed appointments in the month of October alone was something to the tune of 1/4-million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiveOaksAcademy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not rude. It sounds like it was needed. People see me as difficult because I rarely say yes right off the bat. I'm busy and really want to evaluate every. thing. that we are involved in. Those types of situations are the reason. I take it seriously if I say I'm going to do something or be somewhere, and I don't like committing to things if I'm not sure I really want to go OR if I'm really busy during that time and may find it hard to add one more thing OR if there may be something that complicates our being there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This is one of my biggest frustrations with other homeschooling familes too. It's like herding cats! Nance, I liked your letter and I hope it gets a good reception. Last year I set up a homeschool overnight rate with Great Wolf Lodge and had to commit that we would book at least 12 rooms with my personal credit card. I was terrified that a bunch of people would back out at the very last minute and I'd be stuck with charges. :mad: Luckily we had enough people to cover those that DID cancel at the last minute, and I told GWL I would never organize a homeschool trip again under those conditions because I just can't rely on homeschoolers to keep their commitments. It's embarrassing to be associated with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I've sent the same email. Multiple times. Unfortunately, in my experience, people who don't think commitments pertain to them also don't think the message does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcjlkplus3 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Send it. I gave up on our homeschool group for this very reason. From what others have posted it seems to happen a lot within the homeschooling community. I find that so sad and discouraging. It really gives all homeschoolers a bad name. I think that it happens more in the homeschooling community because we are with our kids all day and it is easy to take away an "extra" when a consequence is needed. A little bit of an excuse, but I do think the letter was excellent and sending it was a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yes, this. Or, as our group has done, institute a policy-our group can kick you out for no showing. It may have to happen twice without a call, but it works. We have few no-shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanceXToo Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 So far, I have not had any responses to my email. I just hope people read it and take it to heart. I don't really understand why this is such an issue across the board for so many homeschoolers, as evidenced by the responses here as well as experiences I've had in the past! I know some of you have suggested making events prepay only or charging a deposit or something...I know from experience that I'd be wasting my time. You should see the hassle we go through trying to collect dues on time from people...multiple emails, reminders, warnings, etc, which has even resulted in removing some members in the past. We do very few pre pay events and even then it's a constant chasing people down trying over and over to collect on it...those types of things are almost more hassle than they are worth. I don't want to stop organizing this group because my kids and I both enjoy many of the opportunities and interactions it enables us to have, but it's definitely frustrating when situations like this occur. It used to be worse...a couple of years ago, the group used to be much smaller, only 12-15 families, and when several families inevitably backed out of an event last minute due to sickness, car troubles, realizing that they'd "overscheduled" that week and needed down time or whatever the case was, we'd be left with pretty much nobody attending other than 1 or 2 families. If it was just a field trip to a place we could go to on our own, we'd go anyway. But if it was a tour or talk that involved somebody "leading" our group, we'd have to cancel. Now our group has grown to like 34 families so most of the time when "a few" families back out, there are still enough to have an event anyway. But today just fell apart altogether and really irritated me because first there were the families that backed out last minute due to this that and the other thing, cutting the original RSVP's in half, and then to top it off, half of the families who were left just didn't show up or call or anything. That was SO frustrating and embarrassing! And those wonderful librarians were SO nice about it, and did the program for the three kids anyway. I do love my library. I do already have it in my group's "About" page/policies section about how RSVP's should be treated like other commitments etc and it does mention something about how repeated no shows can result in removal from the group but apparently an email reminder needed to go out and I just hope it works! (I really don't want to have to kick anybody out and do everything I possibly can to avoid doing so but would do it if I had to if the same thing happened with the same member over and over...and one of the families today, this was the second time this has happened with her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curlygirlzx2 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I used to be an organizer for a mom's groups and we had this problem all of the time so it's not just homeschoolers. We had a policy of 3 no shows and the member was removed if they did not contact us about their absence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Margo out of lurking Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have belonged to groups that require a $5 deposit for free field trips. I would say the dollar amount should probably be higher. It does make people take the RSVP more seriously. If you show up, you get your money back. If not, you forfeit the money. In this case, the forfeited money could have been donated to the library. If the venue isn't able to accept a donation, you could keep it for the group, or donate it somewhere else. I was going to suggest the same thing. I've heard of this before, I assumed it was here on the boards. It's a great letter, Nance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops, duplicate account :/ Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I was going to suggest the same thing. I've heard of this before, I assumed it was here on the boards. It's a great letter, Nance. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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