My run in with the library nazi...

[Stacie Leigh]

 

UPDATED BELOW ORIGINAL POST

 

 

We just moved this March and we went from the smallest library in the area to a brand new, absolutely gorgeous library. I brought a friend (another WTM boardie) and her 5 kids along with me and my laundry basket of books to return today and I had 3 of my 4 kids with me as well.

 

My kids had been prep'd and know the rules about the library- walking feet and quiet voices.

 

The librarian freaked when we came into the kids section (which is a whole floor, separate from the main library). The two toddlers were scampering along in a very 2-year-old kind of way. They weren't moving fast, just kind of bobbing along, but she immediately raised her voice in their general direction and said "NO running!". We stopped what we were doing, turned around, and reminded all of them not to run. She continued to grouch about them running while she checked the books in.

 

While she was at it, my 8 year old jogged around the corner and I immediately gave him the evil eye. Again, he wasn't tearing through the place like a maniac, he just got excited and picked up his feet a little bit. He had already slowed to a walk, but this time, the librarian just lost it and yelled "I said NO RUNNING!"

 

I checked if she was the head childrens' librarian and she wasn't. I told her that we love the library and plan to be there often and that I understand the rules, think they are perfectly reasonable and I will most certainly enforce them with my kids but I would appreciate it if she wouldn't yell at them.

 

She basically said that another kid had fallen while running and she wasn't going to deal with that again and she'd yell if she had to. I explained to her that I understood she needed to enforce the rules, but if she felt the need to address my kids, she'd have to step out from behind the desk and speak to them. She told me if they were running there was no way she'd stop what she was doing to go talk to them and she'd yell if she had to. I reiterated that I simply wasn't going to tolerate someone yelling at my children and that if I needed to speak to a superior until an appropriate procedure was put in place, I would do so.

 

She told me that parents are oblivious and if I would enforce the rules, she wouldn't have to say anything and that would solve the problem. I agreed with her that it was my job and asked her to let me do it but she wasn't having it.

 

By the end of the conversation, I appealed to her, asking her if she had children and remembered when they were small and asked if she'd want someone yelling at them but she was unyielding. The conversation continued to go downhill as she outlined several ridiculous scenarios in which the rules had been broken in the past.

 

We walked away and our kids had several stacks of books out, so my friend and I started carefully refiling the board books since there were 30 or so board books alone out at that point. The other librarian came over and told us to stop it because we'd mess everything up. :001_huh: There is one shelf of board books and they are alphabetized, so not exactly hard to figure out.

 

I went to return the remainder to the book cart and she freaked out again saying that I couldn't put them there. I asked her where they should go and she huffed "Just give them to me and I'll do it myself." She made several more comments about all of the books the kids had out and how she'd have to put them away. :001_huh:

 

*Sigh* I was sooo excited to spend a lot of time there this schoolyear, but honestly, if it's going to be that stressful, we may have to be a drop-off-and-pick-up only family.

 

In any case, if you made it through the novel, how would you have handled the situation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

- Updated Below -

 

Things I've learned as a result of this thread:

 

 

 

1. I asked how other people would have handled the situation and some of the advice given was really great and helpful. I have a tendency to agonize over what I say after the fact, even in casual situations with close friends. Reading and responding to the comments on this thread really helped me to sort it all out and made me realize that overall, I am happy with the way I handled the situation. Was it perfect? No, but I didn't have time to write a dissertation before tackling it. My heart was in the right place. It all started out just by me validating her requests and making one I thought was fair and reasonable in return. When she responded the way she did, I did my best to handle it well. Perhaps she feels the same way.

 

2. Some people expect more of a 2 year old than they do of a 50-something year old librarian.

 

3. It is easy to make assumptions about someone's parenting style based on one interaction. That doesn't make those assumptions true. (In my case, defending my kids doesn't mean I'm a coddler. People who have generally quiet kids who tend to be calm aren't necessarily harsh disciplinarians either.)

 

4. Some people are even more uncomfortable with conflict or confrontation than I am... and that's ok!

 

5. I'm only 28 years old and I have a lot to learn... about parenting, about other people, about how to handle various situations, about myself... and plenty more.

(Side note: In my jeans, t shirt and ponytail on Tuesday, I probably looked about 23. I've noticed that people have a lot of assumptions about what that means in terms of my ability, or lack thereof, to parent my kids. The librarian was not the only person who didn't appreciate me and my crew that day, though the other comments were about their number and my age and not related to their behavior. I'll never know if that factored in with the librarian or not.)

 

 

5. Other people have even worse librarians than mine!

 

6. Seinfeld or not, the word Nazi is still offensive to some if not used in the proper context. I've apologized at least 3 times in the course of this thread, but it bears repeating... I am sorry if anyone's feelings were hurt at all.

 

7. I'm taking one of these before I go to the library again: :chillpill: :D

Edited July 21, 2011 by Stacie Leigh

[In The Great White North]

Ask her what her hours are, so you can avoid her in the future?

[Parrothead]

I would have spoken to who ever was actually in charge of her and the library.

[twoforjoy]

I don't have suggestions, but when it comes to hard-line librarians, my father lost his library card after having it for 20 years. When he went for a replacement, the librarian told him, in all seriousness, "Try to be more careful with this one."

[JFSinIL]

I would also print out this post and hand it to her supervisor. Make sure they know what a crappypants they have in the KIDS area!!!

[In The Great White North]

BTW, you might ask for a written copy of the library rules. I bet running isn't even mentioned. :glare: "Quiet voices" is no longer a rule at our library either.

[elegantlion]

Well you handled it quiet well. I'd probably make a phone call to the head office and simply ask if yelling at small children is standard practice. If so you will not be utilizing their facilities, and how unfortunate it is that your children will not grow up with a positive library going experience.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Why continue to address it with this librarian? I would have asked for a supervisor immediately after she told you that she'd yell if she wanted to.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I explained to her that I understood she needed to enforce the rules, but if she felt the need to address my kids, she'd have to step out from behind the desk and speak to them.

 

She started off in a bad mood. I imagine that her mood got worse when you said the part I quoted, basically telling her the way that she can acceptably do her job when dealing with your kids. I think you both escalated each other's emotions and need a do-over.

 

(As an aside, people who were victims of actual Nazi's probably WISH they could have just dealt with a surly librarian! :001_huh: )

[Diana B]

Ask her what her hours are, so you can avoid her in the future?

 

:iagree:

 

I also agree that you should speak with someone in charge. Maybe even just an email to the head librarian or something (I'm very non-confrontational so I love being able to start a confrontation with an email!)

[helena]

First, I would write down all my questions and concerns so that I'm as articulate as possible. I get nervous in these types of situations.

 

I would then arrange a time to go in to talk to her superior. I would start the conversation on a positive note about how excited and grateful you are to have the library. Then I would ask for specific answers to specific questions, like do you allow your librarians to raise their voices at children. What do we do with books when we're done with them, etc.

 

I would let that person know that you are serious homeschoolers who are eager to use and respect the library, but that you are now deeply disappointed, disgusted, concerned (what ever the feeling is..) and want to know if this is par for the course.

 

I would make her explain why they allow this ugly behavior from their employees.

[Cheryl in NM]

In any case, if you made it through the novel, how would you have handled the situation?

 

Probably just the way you did. Then, after typing it out, I would have realized that she was probably having a bad day and didn't need me telling her how to do her job. Then I would call the library and talk to her supervisor and explain what happened. Explain that I utilize the library heavily and would like to avoid this librarian in the future; what are her hours? If she can't be avoided, can her attitude be curtailed so that my children can enjoy the library?

 

All that said, some libraries are still very quiet, don't take the books off the shelves unless you plan to take them home places. I'm not saying it's right, but be willing to fight the system if you insist on going against the grain.

[ThatCyndiGirl]

First, I would write down all my questions and concerns so that I'm as articulate as possible. I get nervous in these types of situations.

 

I would then arrange a time to go in to talk to her superior. I would start the conversation on a positive note about how excited and grateful you are to have the library. Then I would ask for specific answers to specific questions, like do you allow your librarians to raise their voices at children. What do we do with books when we're done with them, etc.

 

I would let that person know that you are serious homeschoolers who are eager to use and respect the library, but that you are now deeply disappointed, disgusted, concerned (what ever the feeling is..) and want to know if this is par for the course.

 

I would make her explain why they allow this ugly behavior from their employees.

 

 

And if you do it from a place of concern rather than "I've been wronged" they will be more likely to listen. I know that when someone ticks ME off my first response is anger, indignation, etc. I have to vent that out before I can communicate effectively.

[Orthodox6]

Dear goodness, what a bad experience !

 

The woman may work in a different department, but was stuck at the circ desk for some reason. The good news is that she is NOT the primary children's librarian!

 

Although you probably were asked in a nasty tone of voice not to reshelve the books, there is a management reason for that. Circulation statistics include keeping track of how many, and sometimes even which, books have been removed from the shelves, even if only for browsing or casual examination. Many libraries keep blank space at the end of shelving units, with signs asking patrons to place books there, instead of attempting to reshelve them.

 

As for how I would have dealt with the situation, I probably would have been a bit more distant. But that is my personality. I suspect that I would have spoken quietly to my children in a spot away from the Mean Librarian and ignored her conspicuous lack of manners. In the car afterward, I would have talked with the oldest ones about how they were doing a good job according to how their parents teach them, but that the librarian was poorly-behaved for whatever unknown reason. . . . I then would find out the name of that branch library's head and mail a letter detailing the experience and asking for kinder public manners from the staff.

 

The librarian described does not appear to like her job. At the same time, none of us have any way of knowing what was going on behind the scenes for that woman at that time. Although nothing excuses her ill-treatment of library patrons, it always is possible that something terrible is going on in her life and her emotions were strongly unsettled. If that be the case, though, her supervisor should place her on duty in a non-public area until she is better able to manage her public behaviour.

[angela in ohio]

She started off in a bad mood. I imagine that her mood got worse when you said the part I quoted, basically telling her the way that she can acceptably do her job when dealing with your kids. I think you both escalated each other's emotions and need a do-over.

 

(As an aside, people who were victims of actual Nazi's probably WISH they could have just dealt with a surly librarian! :001_huh: )

 

:iagree:

[silliness7]

Ask her what her hours are, so you can avoid her in the future?

 

:iagree::lol:

[LaxMom]

BTW, you might ask for a written copy of the library rules. I bet running isn't even mentioned. :glare: "Quiet voices" is no longer a rule at our library either.

And evidently not at this one, either.

 

I would most definitely speak to the children's librarian, if that is her regular post.

 

We don't have that sort at our library, nor at the DE library we used to frequent. We DO have that sort at the next bigger town library. My husband checked out a book on tape for a class he was taking. When we got home, one of the cassettes (but not the one he needed) was missing. I immediately called the library and informed them. When I returned it, I stood at the returns desk for a full 5 minutes before anyone came over to help me, then explained the situation and that I had called the day of checkout. No problem. A note will be put on it. When I got home, I had a message from Ms. Frowny Pants, saying a cassette was missing, so I called and explained (again) that it had been missing on checkout, I had called, I had spoken to someone at the returns desk... "Well, we'll forgive it THIS time, but I am personally making a note on your record." Whatever. You got me, lady. Because, really, I am ALL ABOUT stealing random cassettes from the middle of books on tape. :glare:

[Bang!Zoom!]

I'm half and half with this.

 

Half on the side of concept of they are working for you (legalistically thinking & weight).

 

Half on the emotional side of it; stay out of there and away from her...only because if a child is imprinted with fear in something as sacred as a library- the future ..ugh..I can't even think of the word...

 

These places are temples of learning, exploring and of a very special sort of fostering love of books...and that lasts for a lifetime. I had so many amazing role models of librarianship as a child, and I was always comforted and welcomed and met with delight..and so were all the children in my later life.

 

I'm heartbroken to read this-and I'm glad you stood up about it; and depending on how large an issue this is for you, my best wishes for finding a resolution.

 

I would be torn also. :(

[Mynyel]

We just moved this March and we went from the smallest library in the area to a brand new, absolutely gorgeous library. I brought a friend (another WTM boardie) and her 5 kids along with me and my laundry basket of books to return today and I had 3 of my 4 kids with me as well.

 

My kids had been prep'd and know the rules about the library- walking feet and quiet voices.

 

The librarian freaked when we came into the kids section (which is a whole floor, separate from the main library). The two toddlers were scampering along in a very 2-year-old kind of way. They weren't moving fast, just kind of bobbing along, but she immediately raised her voice in their general direction and said "NO running!". We stopped what we were doing, turned around, and reminded all of them not to run. She continued to grouch about them running while she checked the books in.

 

While she was at it, my 8 year old jogged around the corner and I immediately gave him the evil eye. Again, he wasn't tearing through the place like a maniac, he just got excited and picked up his feet a little bit. He had already slowed to a walk, but this time, the librarian just lost it and yelled "I said NO RUNNING!"

 

I checked if she was the head childrens' librarian and she wasn't. I told her that we love the library and plan to be there often and that I understand the rules, think they are perfectly reasonable and I will most certainly enforce them with my kids but I would appreciate it if she wouldn't yell at them.

 

She basically said that another kid had fallen while running and she wasn't going to deal with that again and she'd yell if she had to. I explained to her that I understood she needed to enforce the rules, but if she felt the need to address my kids, she'd have to step out from behind the desk and speak to them. She told me if they were running there was no way she'd stop what she was doing to go talk to them and she'd yell if she had to. I reiterated that I simply wasn't going to tolerate someone yelling at my children and that if I needed to speak to a superior until an appropriate procedure was put in place, I would do so.

 

She told me that parents are oblivious and if I would enforce the rules, she wouldn't have to say anything and that would solve the problem. I agreed with her that it was my job and asked her to let me do it but she wasn't having it.

 

By the end of the conversation, I appealed to her, asking her if she had children and remembered when they were small and asked if she'd want someone yelling at them but she was unyielding. The conversation continued to go downhill as she outlined several ridiculous scenarios in which the rules had been broken in the past.

 

We walked away and our kids had several stacks of books out, so my friend and I started carefully refiling the board books since there were 30 or so board books alone out at that point. The other librarian came over and told us to stop it because we'd mess everything up. :001_huh: There is one shelf of board books and they are alphabetized, so not exactly hard to figure out.

 

I went to return the remainder to the book cart and she freaked out again saying that I couldn't put them there. I asked her where they should go and she huffed "Just give them to me and I'll do it myself." She made several more comments about all of the books the kids had out and how she'd have to put them away. :001_huh:

 

*Sigh* I was sooo excited to spend a lot of time there this schoolyear, but honestly, if it's going to be that stressful, we may have to be a drop-off-and-pick-up only family.

 

In any case, if you made it through the novel, how would you have handled the situation?

 

I would have lost it completely and asked to speak with a superior as well. No way someone should be that rude on the childrens floor of the library. My goodness.

 

I would go again, and give her another chance, maybe it was a bad day but if it happened again I would document it and talk to someone above her. Write a letter to the head of the library too.

[Bang!Zoom!]

You happen to have a cell phone with a video cam? bwhahahaha..you know where I'm going with that question...

 

It just happened to pop into my head as I was recovering from the sadness.

[joannqn]

I don't know. If my kids were truly behaving well, I think I would have left the area and tried again a different day, hopefully meeting the actual children's librarian.

 

My experience with the library is to be more concerned about my children's behavior than the librarians are. I was always apologizing for my one son's behavior, and they were always reassuring me he was fine, that they preferred to have kids enjoy being at the library over enforcing quiet voices. I ended up leaving him home when I went to the library because my stress levels from my own "be quiet at the library" training was too ingrained. Of course, adult areas required more quiet, especially the study areas.

[Crissy]

She started off in a bad mood. I imagine that her mood got worse when you said the part I quoted, basically telling her the way that she can acceptably do her job when dealing with your kids. I think you both escalated each other's emotions and need a do-over.

 

 

 

:iagree:

OP, I hope you find a suitable resolution. It sounds like a lovely library outside of this particular conflict.

 

 

(As an aside, people who were victims of actual Nazi's probably WISH they could have just dealt with a surly librarian! :001_huh: )

 

I do wish we could stop using the word so casually.

[gingersmom]

We have a cranky child hating librarian that I just ignore. I told my kids to ignore her also.

 

She tells my son to whisper and then proceeds to have an extremely loud conversation with someone.

 

I would not let her ruin your library experience. We love the library and nobody is going to stop me from going.

[stripe]

Yuck! What a non welcoming atmosphere. It is not good to kill kids' enthusiasm for the library in this way.

 

When I was spoken to by a security guard for normal behavior around library toys (hello, why are they there? For a display?!), I complained to the administration. Someone called me and apologized and promised to speak to security.

[WishboneDawn]

I would have spoken to who ever was actually in charge of her and the library.

 

:iagree:

 

What a way to guarantee people stay away from the library. People higher up need to know about their behaviour.

[mjselmk]

Wow, she sounds too uptight to be a children's librarian! In my experience they are pretty laid back people. Maybe she should think about moving into the general pop instead? lol:)

[FO4UR]

Just talk to her superior. She doesn't sound willing to admit any fault, and there is no fixing this if she's going to continue with that level of immaturity.

 

I'd go whenever you want to go to the library. She doesn't get to bully you from the library. Perhaps be more forceful with your words if it happens again. "Do not yell at my children." and don't argue about, don't listen to her rant about the horrible kids before (Those other kids are not your kids!!!), and walk away from her.

 

Instruct your children to come straight to you if that librarian ever approached them in a way that makes them uncomfortable (even if they have to walk away while she's still yelling). We teach our kids to respect adults, but that particular adult was not respectful of your children once...she's likely going to repeat the pattern.

[WeeBeaks]

I would probably break out my letter-writing skills, to the manager of the branch. And, yes, I have talked to several of them, unfortunately, over the years.

 

The last one insisted passionately that their librarians thoroughly inspect each book for damage before it is checked out. Uh, yeah, right. So we had a damaged book that I reported and they insisted we had to have done it because they thoroughly inspect each book. We pulled several we had just checked out with damage ... checked out to us .... no notation ... and we hadn't left the premises yet so could not have possibly damaged them. Yeah, they check them out with damage alrighty.

 

We have been treated like you in the children's area too. I wrote a letter through the city website that time I was so mad, reminding the manager that the library is on the chopping block every.single.budget.cycle. And every single year I'm there writing my council member and campaigning and donating money to keep it going ... yet my kids get treated like dirt in one particular branch, even on best behavior. The manager later called me to apologize and stated he would speak to his staff. If that is the impression left in the minds of the public (meanness, rudeness), it is no wonder it is so hard to get people to care that library funding is being cut.

 

Yes, we parents need to teach our kids good library manners, but librarians need to realize the library is not their own personal home where they get to choose how to treat the patrons. Respect both ways, both sides needed of that equation, staff and patron!

Edited July 19, 2011 by WeeBeaks

[arghmatey]

I would have smiled and then said, "We'll give that all the consideration it deserves, Dear."

 

Now, write a letter detailing what happened. Send it to the head librarian, the board members of the friends of the library, and the elected officials who budget money for the library.

 

Crotchety librarians are out of style. This mossy miss needs to know her place.

[Anne in CA]

In this day and age of technogy I would record her and UTUBE it, lol so the library management have to deal with hit. I would walk in with my flip camera going the whole time and let nature take its course.

[Jen500]

Send her to our library!!! I want this lady in our children's area! Seriously. I am soooo tired of the loud kids and adults, kids running around, and books re-shelved in wrong place. It's a crazy house, especially when school is out.

[amyco]

I think you did a great job. Definitely ask for some written rules though. Our library doesn't have a children's librarian even though the section is huge, thru separate doors and everything. Every librarian (or more correctly, circulation specialist) rotates all day thru different stations. Front "desk," children's, computer area, etc. I know some like children's more than others. The nice ones get to do the story time. :)

[oldskool]

I am a librarian and stories like this make me cringe. We discussed this stuff a lot in library school and my hope is the "new librarian generation" will have a different way of approaching patron issues. My dd was yelled at once in our library and I immediately brought the incident to the supervisor and then to the manager above her.

I know that with budget cuts libraries are often now putting people in positions that they don't want to be in. So it could be that this woman really does not want to work in the children's department but has no choice. I would definitely bring your concerns to the head librarian or manager. If that does not help and you have a library board you can write a letter to them. I think it is important for workplaces to have documentation of these kind of incidents because it may be what they need to track consistent problems with certain staff members.

 

Lesley

[ktgrok]

If she yells at your children again just ask her nicely to please use her quiet voice, it's a library :)

[radiobrain]

I find the part about her complaining about having to reshelve the books as your kids checked so many out, hysterical. Isn't that what a library is for, and a component of a librarian's job? ;)

[swellmomma]

I would have addressed it with the head librarian. A funny aside. Our library got a new librarian. She was very much like you just described. I told the other staff there that we would not be renewing our library cards when they expired because of this particular librarian. They were having none of that, they told me that my family brings in the most business for not only my home branch but the one in the neighboring town I frequent. They both want to keep me happy because the gov't gives money to buy new books based on usage etc. We frequently have out 200+ items, most people in my town take out 1-2 things. That librarian still works there but is nothing but sweet to me and my kids now.

 

Having lived in bigger centers before it doesn't always work out that way. BUT if you make it clear to the head librarian that you will not be using the library because of the way this particular librarian treats patrons AND they can see how much you utilize the library they may work harder at backing you up rather than her kwim.

 

I hope you get things worked out and the librarian you dealt with learns to relax and treat children respectfully.

[Annie Laurie]

I think it's so disappointing when adults discourage children from places of learning and enrichment.

 

I have experienced something similar at a library in my area, back when my 7 yr old was a baby he started shrieking happily and loudly in the way that babies do, so I started packing everyone up. A baby has no understanding of quiet and I had a preschooler and a toddler to get packed up too, so it took us a minute. Then a librarian came and chastised me because the baby was loud. We were in the kids section.

 

I also have had this experience several times at the Dallas Museum of Art. There are certain docents who are not happy to see children there, and will follow us around the whole time, just waiting for a chance to catch the kids being "bad". They frown at us when the kids are loud and tell our kids not to run when they are kind of skipping along, etc. Way to communicate that learning about art and history is totally boring and unpleasant.

[shinyhappypeople]

If she yells at your children again just ask her nicely to please use her quiet voice, it's a library :)

 

:D Perfect!

[Dustybug]

Just talk to her superior. She doesn't sound willing to admit any fault, and there is no fixing this if she's going to continue with that level of immaturity.

 

I'd go whenever you want to go to the library. She doesn't get to bully you from the library. Perhaps be more forceful with your words if it happens again. "Do not yell at my children." and don't argue about, don't listen to her rant about the horrible kids before (Those other kids are not your kids!!!), and walk away from her.

 

Instruct your children to come straight to you if that librarian ever approached them in a way that makes them uncomfortable (even if they have to walk away while she's still yelling). We teach our kids to respect adults, but that particular adult was not respectful of your children once...she's likely going to repeat the pattern.

 

:iagree:

[Hedgehog]

I would have smiled and then said, "We'll give that all the consideration it deserves, Dear."

 

Love this. (Probably be too scared to say it, though!)

 

 

OP - I'd write letters. It's more effective than trying to discuss with someone who's having a bad day. It doesn't sound to me like your kids were being badly behaved at all.

[elizabeth]

We just moved this March and we went from the smallest library in the area to a brand new, absolutely gorgeous library. I brought a friend (another WTM boardie) and her 5 kids along with me and my laundry basket of books to return today and I had 3 of my 4 kids with me as well.

 

My kids had been prep'd and know the rules about the library- walking feet and quiet voices.

 

The librarian freaked when we came into the kids section (which is a whole floor, separate from the main library). The two toddlers were scampering along in a very 2-year-old kind of way. They weren't moving fast, just kind of bobbing along, but she immediately raised her voice in their general direction and said "NO running!". We stopped what we were doing, turned around, and reminded all of them not to run. She continued to grouch about them running while she checked the books in.

 

While she was at it, my 8 year old jogged around the corner and I immediately gave him the evil eye. Again, he wasn't tearing through the place like a maniac, he just got excited and picked up his feet a little bit. He had already slowed to a walk, but this time, the librarian just lost it and yelled "I said NO RUNNING!"

 

I checked if she was the head childrens' librarian and she wasn't. I told her that we love the library and plan to be there often and that I understand the rules, think they are perfectly reasonable and I will most certainly enforce them with my kids but I would appreciate it if she wouldn't yell at them.

 

She basically said that another kid had fallen while running and she wasn't going to deal with that again and she'd yell if she had to. I explained to her that I understood she needed to enforce the rules, but if she felt the need to address my kids, she'd have to step out from behind the desk and speak to them. She told me if they were running there was no way she'd stop what she was doing to go talk to them and she'd yell if she had to. I reiterated that I simply wasn't going to tolerate someone yelling at my children and that if I needed to speak to a superior until an appropriate procedure was put in place, I would do so.

 

She told me that parents are oblivious and if I would enforce the rules, she wouldn't have to say anything and that would solve the problem. I agreed with her that it was my job and asked her to let me do it but she wasn't having it.

 

By the end of the conversation, I appealed to her, asking her if she had children and remembered when they were small and asked if she'd want someone yelling at them but she was unyielding. The conversation continued to go downhill as she outlined several ridiculous scenarios in which the rules had been broken in the past.

 

We walked away and our kids had several stacks of books out, so my friend and I started carefully refiling the board books since there were 30 or so board books alone out at that point. The other librarian came over and told us to stop it because we'd mess everything up. :001_huh: There is one shelf of board books and they are alphabetized, so not exactly hard to figure out.

 

I went to return the remainder to the book cart and she freaked out again saying that I couldn't put them there. I asked her where they should go and she huffed "Just give them to me and I'll do it myself." She made several more comments about all of the books the kids had out and how she'd have to put them away. :001_huh:

 

*Sigh* I was sooo excited to spend a lot of time there this schoolyear, but honestly, if it's going to be that stressful, we may have to be a drop-off-and-pick-up only family.

 

In any case, if you made it through the novel, how would you have handled the situation?

 

Offered her a glass of sangria ???? Some days you are just unlucky to be someone's whipping post. It stinks and I have been the one who was unlucky enough to have stepped right into the thick of a situation that was not of my making. So the answer is to heck with her, you have a nice glass of sangria with frozen fruit while you rest on a lounge chair.

[kalanamak]

I'd try to ignore as much as possible. The few times I've had a conflict with a librarian (well, three in 50+ years) there is NO disagreeing with them, and they stick together. My favorite one was the time I returned some books in the slot next to the desk in the Brooklyn Heights library (a rather nice part of town). The woman behind the counter really crabbed at me and said I was supposed to put them on the counter and THEY would put them down the slot (I suspect to see if you owed anything). I said "I'm sorry, I was just trying to be helpful" and went on, and her boss came flying around the corner to chew me out for not stopping for a chewing out I didn't know I was going to get (I was new to New Yawkers). When I looked at her like she was nuts, she decided I was and pushed me back against the magazine shelves and started to frisk me for ??weapons?? I raised my voice and told her not to touch me and wiggled away. She came after me, and was patting down my hips and buttocks. I fled.

 

Don't get me started on the librarian and her boss who wouldn't let my husband check out my requested book because we "might have been in the middle of a contentious divorce, and he stole the request-is-here card out of my mailbox and was just checking it out to harass me."

[Word Nerd]

I'd try to ignore as much as possible. The few times I've had a conflict with a librarian (well, three in 50+ years) there is NO disagreeing with them, and they stick together. My favorite one was the time I returned some books in the slot next to the desk in the Brooklyn Heights library (a rather nice part of town). The woman behind the counter really crabbed at me and said I was supposed to put them on the counter and THEY would put them down the slot (I suspect to see if you owed anything). I said "I'm sorry, I was just trying to be helpful" and went on, and her boss came flying around the corner to chew me out for not stopping for a chewing out I didn't know I was going to get (I was new to New Yawkers). When I looked at her like she was nuts, she decided I was and pushed me back against the magazine shelves and started to frisk me for ??weapons?? I raised my voice and told her not to touch me and wiggled away. She came after me, and was patting down my hips and buttocks. I fled.

 

 

:eek:

 

Some of these experiences make me thankful for Mr. Grumpy Pants, the Sneering Public Services Librarian Who Hates the Public.

[*Lulu*]

As someone who has experience with a librarian who is/was not super fond of children, I feel your pain.

 

We spent four years "killing with kindness" this librarian. (During this time others complained about her to her superiors, but I never saw it make a difference in staffing.) Finally she warmed up to us, and is now one of the kids' favorite librarians. It hasn't hurt my kids to deal with someone who doesn't think they are perfectly delightful, and has been a terrific opportunity to show love to someone who doesn't always seem as lovable.

[lulubelle]

Such a drag! I have had similar issues with my librarians. They are so unfriendly! I did write a letter to the director which did nothing.

 

I was very put off, but my need for the books was a much higher priority! Do not let the offensive person stop you from going. Let her do her job and move on. She works for you!

[Birdwinglips]

"Well, we'll forgive it THIS time, but I am personally making a note on your record." Whatever. You got me, lady. Because, really, I am ALL ABOUT stealing random cassettes from the middle of books on tape. :glare:

 

:lol:

[ThatCyndiGirl]

:eek:

 

Some of these experiences make me thankful for Mr. Grumpy Pants, the Sneering Public Services Librarian Who Hates the Public.

 

 

:confused: He works at YOUR library, too? :tongue_smilie:

[Stacie Leigh]

Ask her what her hours are, so you can avoid her in the future?

 

If she's around often, I think I will find out what her hours are... whether from her or another librarian.

 

I would have spoken to who ever was actually in charge of her and the library.

 

If she's as unpleasant in the future, I definitely will.

 

I don't have suggestions, but when it comes to hard-line librarians, my father lost his library card after having it for 20 years. When he went for a replacement, the librarian told him, in all seriousness, "Try to be more careful with this one."

 

Oh.my.heavens. Cracks me up! Sad and hilariously ridiculous at the same time!

 

She started off in a bad mood. I imagine that her mood got worse when you said the part I quoted, basically telling her the way that she can acceptably do her job when dealing with your kids. I think you both escalated each other's emotions and need a do-over.

 

(As an aside, people who were victims of actual Nazi's probably WISH they could have just dealt with a surly librarian! :001_huh: )

 

I get ya... I really did go out of my way to validate her concerns and reassure her that I took them seriously, so when she refused to hear me out, I think drawing a simple boundary was fair enough. It seemed like a much better option than telling her never to speak to them again, lol.

 

I dunno. I guess I can't imagine any mom I know being ok with a stranger yelling at their child publicly, or otherwise. Could you say you would be?

 

It should be noted that I kept my voice very low so that no patrons, and more importantly, my children did not hear me. I had NO intent of shaming her and when I spoke to my children later, I told them that even if an adult was unpleasant or raised their voice, they needed to show respect.

 

As a side note, I hesitated using *that* word before posting. I even searched the board to see if it had been used here in the same way before I published my post and it had and, as far as I could tell, no one got scolded for it, but I guess I just need to be scolded today, haha! ;) Lesson learned. If I have to search it, I shouldn't post it, clearly.

 

Just to be clear, I do not take anything regarding the holocaust and surrounding events lightly in any way. I have a beloved family friend who survived a concentration camp so it's personal to me.

 

The word simply conveyed the feeling of the experience without filling the title with adjectives. My apologies to anyone who may have been offended... truly.

 

 

Dear goodness, what a bad experience !

 

The woman may work in a different department, but was stuck at the circ desk for some reason. The good news is that she is NOT the primary children's librarian!

 

Although you probably were asked in a nasty tone of voice not to reshelve the books, there is a management reason for that. Circulation statistics include keeping track of how many, and sometimes even which, books have been removed from the shelves, even if only for browsing or casual examination. Many libraries keep blank space at the end of shelving units, with signs asking patrons to place books there, instead of attempting to reshelve them.

 

As for how I would have dealt with the situation, I probably would have been a bit more distant. But that is my personality. I suspect that I would have spoken quietly to my children in a spot away from the Mean Librarian and ignored her conspicuous lack of manners. In the car afterward, I would have talked with the oldest ones about how they were doing a good job according to how their parents teach them, but that the librarian was poorly-behaved for whatever unknown reason. . . . I then would find out the name of that branch library's head and mail a letter detailing the experience and asking for kinder public manners from the staff.

 

The librarian described does not appear to like her job. At the same time, none of us have any way of knowing what was going on behind the scenes for that woman at that time. Although nothing excuses her ill-treatment of library patrons, it always is possible that something terrible is going on in her life and her emotions were strongly unsettled. If that be the case, though, her supervisor should place her on duty in a non-public area until she is better able to manage her public behaviour.

 

I understand that concept (re:statistical data and such) but the woman did no such thing. She walked up and rammed them in without noting anything.

 

They had a cart out to collect the books, but she didn't want me to put them there either. (The shelves are very full, so they don't have any special spots on the shelves that unshelved books are to be placed as my old library did. Next time, I'll leave them stacked neatly on the tables unless otherwise directed.) I'm a very conscientious library user, so I made sure to walk around and check for a spot.

 

After her grouchiness, I wanted to ease her frustration and not provoke her further. My goal was to leave things better than when we came in.

 

 

I'm half and half with this.

 

Half on the side of concept of they are working for you (legalistically thinking & weight).

 

Half on the emotional side of it; stay out of there and away from her...only because if a child is imprinted with fear in something as sacred as a library- the future ..ugh..I can't even think of the word...

 

These places are temples of learning, exploring and of a very special sort of fostering love of books...and that lasts for a lifetime. I had so many amazing role models of librarianship as a child, and I was always comforted and welcomed and met with delight..and so were all the children in my later life.

 

I'm heartbroken to read this-and I'm glad you stood up about it; and depending on how large an issue this is for you, my best wishes for finding a resolution.

 

I would be torn also. :(

 

 

I really want my kids to see the library as a place of excitement and so far, they have. They can't wait for library day and I don't want that to change.

 

 

 

You happen to have a cell phone with a video cam? bwhahahaha..you know where I'm going with that question...

 

It just happened to pop into my head as I was recovering from the sadness.

 

 

That same thought just popped into my mind as I was driving home. I was actually just thinking that I wish I had taped it so my DH could see it!

 

 

I don't know. If my kids were truly behaving well, I think I would have left the area and tried again a different day, hopefully meeting the actual children's librarian.

 

My experience with the library is to be more concerned about my children's behavior than the librarians are. I was always apologizing for my one son's behavior, and they were always reassuring me he was fine, that they preferred to have kids enjoy being at the library over enforcing quiet voices. I ended up leaving him home when I went to the library because my stress levels from my own "be quiet at the library" training was too ingrained. Of course, adult areas required more quiet, especially the study areas.

 

 

This is probably why it threw me for a loop. There is no doubt that I am hard on my kids... too much so sometimes. My parents tell me to loosen up on a regular basis and I've had cashiers at the gap or gymoree tell me more than once, that there was no need to keep the kids quiet, they were behaving fine. I require a lot of them and this situation was no exception. I'd be lying if I said that I myself never raise my voice at them, but that doesn't mean it's ok for a person who is there to facilitate learning to yell and make the experience unbearable for all of us.

 

 

:iagree:

OP, I hope you find a suitable resolution. It sounds like a lovely library outside of this particular conflict.

 

 

 

 

I do wish we could stop using the word so casually.

 

I addressed this above, but again, I am sorry if you were offended. It was not my intent.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Stacie Leigh

[....]

When I looked at her like she was nuts, she decided I was and pushed me back against the magazine shelves and started to frisk me for ??weapons?? I raised my voice and told her not to touch me and wiggled away. She came after me, and was patting down my hips and buttocks. I fled.

 

 

We've had bizarre..."altercations" with people in the last few years, also. I've noticed that people seem more and more off their rockers. There's a huge lack of etiquette, social skills and professionalism these days. We could make a TV show about some of the bizarre behaviors my husband and I have seen from people lately.

[black_midori]

I'm taking my 7yo & 5yo for an exciting "downtown library" trip tomorrow - we get to ride the bus (yippee!! sigh), walk under the road in a tunnel (where I go to work - a good walk away from the library, but one of the must-do highlights of the trip, apparently), have lunch, and then walk several blocks to the really nice library.

 

I must say, I WAS looking forward to it... until reading this thread... <g> I haven't gone there in a very long time, but they used to always be very nice - I've got my fingers crossed!! <rofl>