The word 'obey' in marriage vows

[Night Elf]

All this husband/wife talk got me thinking. DH and I specifically removed the word 'obey' from our marriage vows as neither of us go in for that. And we were married in the court house, fwiw. That's not a judgement on those who do, of course, though I can't stop some people from feeling offended. But I was the one who brought it up after attending a wedding that had that word mentioned so many times in their vows, I was truly wondering what kind of marriage I was witnessing. I've heard the word 'obey' usually mentioned once, but that was like a dozen times. I assumed it had something to do with the faith and forgive me for having NO clue what faith it was. We attended out of politeness for an acquaintance, not a close friend.

 

Did anyone else get married without that word in their vows whether having it intentionally moved or not? Are we odd birds? :)

[Carol in Cal.]

I didn't have that word in my vows.

I don't remember any mention of submit either.

[Parrothead]

 

Did anyone else get married without that word in their vows whether having it intentionally moved or not? Are we odd birds? :)

You betcha we had it we had it removed. ;)

[justamouse]

:lurk5::lurk5::lurk5:

 

*zipsmouthshutty* (crossmyheartandhopetopie)

[Impish]

We were married by Wolf's uncle, who is an SDA pastor. 'Obey' wasn't used, but I don't remember a specific conversation about it...it came up as more of a joking manner.

 

His uncle did have to struggle a bit to fit in exchanging of rings, though. Apparently its not a common part of SDA weddings (Wolf and I aren't SDA, but pretty much all of his afamily is).

[Retired]

We were married in a church and the word "obey" was not in our vows.

[Crissy]

Did anyone else get married without that word in their vows whether having it intentionally moved or not?

 

It wasn't included in our vows, but not because we asked to have it removed. It never came up.

[Slartibartfast]

It wasn't in our vows.

[Food4Thought]

My vows did not include obey either, and I was married in a church by DH's pastor father. The important words I remember were "honor" and "respect." DH said "love" and "cherish." We both try our best to do those things for each other.

[zookeeperof3]

Obey was in my part of the vows! Occasionally, my dh tease me about it. It doesn't bother me. FYI We are very traditional Catholics, if that matters.

Kim

[Daisy]

I can't even remember my vows. How horrible is that? I have absolutely no clue what I said that day. LOL. Must have been good though 'cause we are going on 16yrs.

[dirty ethel rackham]

We used one of the selections from the marriage ceremony booklet developed by our diocese (Catholic.) I don't remember the word "obey" being in there at all. We certainly didn't use it. It doesn't make sense to me for a marriage relationship. Then again, I don't necessarily expect "obedience" from my kids - more on the lines of mutual respect and making good choices.

[KidsHappen]

We specifically chose vows that did not include that word.

[pdalley]

Not in either the courthouse original ceremony vows or the renewal vows though we joke about it constantly. Cause I'm 'She Who Must Be Obeyed'. (Joking, of course)

[HRAAB]

Absolutely not. FWIW, we were married in 1985 in the Catholic Church. If the word 'obey' had been in our vows, I would not have answered because I could not with any integrity say yes to that. It wasn't then, nor has it ever been, our understanding of marriage.

[dm379]

It was in ours. My dad was the pastor that married us and he refused to leave it out even though I begged him to. We had to suddenly move our wedding date way up because of military reasons and couldn't find anybody else to marry us on 12- hour notice and religion was so ingrained in us that getting married by anybody other than a pastor had never occurred to us. I said it as a joke and everybody laughed because they know me better than that. DH teased me about it the first 6 or 7 yrs. but I guess we both forgot all about it by now.

[LisaKinVA]

We wrote our own vows... obey wasn't in there. I believe respect and honor were.

[Guest janainaz]

That word was not in mine, and our vows were based on mutual respect and yielding to one another.

[Renee in NC]

I honestly have no idea *what* my vows say! I just remember that we both did say, "I do" and the "Now pronounce you man and wife part." Don't remember much else. Oh wait - the best man did punch my dh in the arm and tell him to breath at one point!:lol:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I remember very little of my wedding. Just a guess that it was included though. It wouldn't have crossed my mind to strike it at that point. Regardless, like mentioned above, we seem to be just fine whether the word was included or not.

[meet me in paris]

Nope. Love, honor, cherish were our words, I believe! "Obey" creeps me out.

[cin]

It was in our vows. Intentionally. We had the option, I guess I should say *I* had the option. DH and the pastor both looked at me and I said YES. FWIW, we were married in the Baptist Church I grew up in. I've since matured; I've moved from obeying to submitting :D (J/K please don't flame me!!)

[SonshineLearner]

Obey was in ours... I thought about it... It's different than a child's obedience. And... I'm not sure that my husband would say I obey him... I do try to observe a type of deference to his decisions. I wouldn't vote if that was in a poll, though.

 

:)

[nukeswife]

We were married in the backyard of the bed and breakfast where my husband was living when we met, by a JOP. The word obey wasn't in the vows, but we didn't ask her to remove them, she must have done it on her own.

[vonfirmath]

Obey was in my vows, intentionally and deliberately.

[smrtmama]

Neither obey nor submit were in my wedding vows. I married a partner, not a master.

[TinaBlue]

No "obey" or "submit" in our vows. We were married in a Presbyterian church, but I don't think the minister had them in there to begin with.

[Guest Katia]

No "obey" or "submit" in ours. I know....because I wrote them!

 

Actually, I wrote my vows and dh wrote his, but I wrote the entire ceremony out; what the pastor said, what we said, who moved where when, etc. Then I handed it to the pastor and said, "this is what we want". And he read it, did it, word for word. We had two pastors: one for each half of the wedding. Dh's uncle did the first part and my uncle did the second part. They were just glad they didn't have to come up with the whole thing themselves, I suppose.

 

I didn't want one type/religion of a wedding ceremony. As a teen, I sang, and I sang at a lot of different weddings and, therefore, was exposed to a variety of different customs/religions/vows, etc. So, I took the things I liked the best from all those and mixed them together for our own One-Of-A-Kind wedding ceremony. It was great! (back in the early 80s when 'different' things simply weren't done)

[BigMamaBird]

We removed it from our vows and our very conservative pastor almost wouldn't marry us over it. I explained that I have no intention of blindly obeying him so I'm not going to vow before God that I will. I was being honest.

[michelle l]

No, ours were to "love, honor, and cherish", for both of us. I would not have agreed to obey in a million years.

[Medieval Mom]

No obey or submit in our vows here in the U.S.

 

I made the mistake of having a second ceremony with my dh's father in his homeland, where OBEDIENCE was hammered in at every possibility, not only to my husband, but to my husband's father (as head of the household). Even in the reception, people would walk up to dh and I and say, "Can't understand why you married an American, but she's pretty and looks obedient." I spent an hour crying in the basement of the reception hall, and the next two years furious at his family (whenever I thought about it). Now, in an odd way, I've moved from furious to finding it funny.... In the way you chuckle over a horrible accident. :tongue_smilie:

 

Dh, luckily, has always proclaimed that he doesn't WANT my obedience, but my love and partnership. (I couldn't have married him otherwise, frankly.) We submit to each other, out of our love and respect. :D

[MindyD]

I had obey in mine I think. Like a pp said, I really just remember "I do"! But I have a different understanding than I'm seeing here. It's not obey or submit as in master/slave or parent/child. We make decisions together as best we can. On the very rare occurrence that we can't come to some sort of agreement, I defer to him since he's the head of the household. Sometimes I end up choking back the "I told you so", but not always. He can't and won't try to make me submit, but that's the order of things for us. I understand that some men try to lord over their wives, but that's not the intention. And the other side is that the husband is supposed to love his wife "like Christ loved the church" giving himself up for her. So he's supposed to put her before himself. That's my understanding. =)

[Gratia271]

We wrote our own vows. Obey was not in them.

[Mom in High Heels]

We were married in a Catholic church and it wasn't in our vows. We didn't ask for it to be removed, it just wasn't in there. The only thing we specifically wanted in our vows was an "I do" not an "I will."

I think I promised to love and honor and he promised to love and cherish. I don't know. It's been too long-15 years-to remember. I can see James Bond trying to get me to "obey." That would go over really well.

[juelle]

'Obey' was in ours. We used the old Anglican service. I like the traditional aspect of the phrase, but I feel torn about having used it.

 

I certainly haven't kept my vow. But I am only now learning how to be myself, and therein to be a better wife, more of an 'appropriate co-worker' rather than childish doormat.

[Unicorn.]

You betcha we had it we had it removed. ;)

 

:iagree: Love, Honor, and CHERISH. I don't obey anyone-even myself. :D

[Virg]

We are getting married next Saturday and "obey" will be in my vows :)

[GVD22]

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago. The word was in our vows 15 years ago and looking back I would NEVER say something like that again, not because DH isn't a great guy but it's misogynistic for a woman to be expected to obey her husband. Where's the partnership in that?:confused:

[*********]

Obey was in my vows, intentionally and deliberately.

 

Me too. :) Here was my inspiration for making sure it was in there:

 

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 3:1-6

Edited September 23, 2010 by bethanyniez

[ChiMomNP]

Obey was in my vows. It was intentional and not religiously oriented either. :)

[RoughCollie]

The word "obey" was not used in my marriage vows. I took it out. I cannot remember which word I substituted.

[LazyDazy]

Honestly, I have no idea. That was a long time ago and I didn't memorize my lines. All I know is that I started the day single and ended the day married. :)

[jld]

Shoot, I didn't even want vows beyond, "I take you to be my husband/wife." But then the court commissioner started reciting the traditional vows, and I couldn't really stop him and say, wait a minute, we didn't know we were going to have to promise all that . . . :D

 

But seriously, I would probably benefit from being more "obedient". Dh is really smart, and worth listening to, if not obeying, lol.

[TravelingChris]

We were married 25 years ago this month and did not have obey in the vows. We were married in a Catholic college chapel. I am not a Catholic now.

[Garga]

Obey was in my vows by mistake!

 

I got married at 19. That was before I knew how to take charge of things. I just assumed that no one used the word "obey" any more (without actually checking for myself.)

 

The pastor said, "Do you just want the traditional vows?" and I said, "Sure!" having NO CLUE that anyone actually still used the word "obey."

 

What a nasty surprise to be standing in front of everyone and having, "love, honor, and obey" be said.

 

My husband would NEVER actually expect me to obey, but it really irks me that it was in my vows. I'll bet he doesn't even remember it at all. One friend did come up to me and say, "Interesting vows..." with a raised eyebrow.

 

UGH.

[Abigail4476]

It was in our vows because it was traditional and it didn't occur to me to take it out. However, I never thought that "obey" meant blind obedience. To me, submitting to my husband's authority is a choice to honor and respect him in the home. Since that's something that is returned to me, I suppose technically it should have been in his vows, too. :001_smile:

 

I definitely don't believe in blind obedience. Further, submission that is forced isn't submission; it's subservience. By definition, submission must be voluntary. If Christian couples truly follow biblical ideals, the husband has way more to "submit" than his wife. The equal and opposite commandment for the Christian husband is to "love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it." That's a LOT of loving and giving. :D So, then, any Christian man who expects submission from his wife must allow her to *expect* Christlike loving and giving (e.g., "service") from him.

 

Obeying in the sense of "voluntary submission" isn't something I object to. I do object to husbands browbeating their wives with scripture and trying to force them to obey them in everything. I think that's the thing I've seen in Christian circles that bothers me the most. Men know their wives are striving to be Christlike and follow scripture, so they use that against them to manipulate them into doing whatever they want. Even God doesn't force us to obey Him, so I would think it obvious that no man has the right to force obedience from his wife. :001_smile:

[Audrey]

All this husband/wife talk got me thinking. DH and I specifically removed the word 'obey' from our marriage vows as neither of us go in for that. And we were married in the court house, fwiw. That's not a judgement on those who do, of course, though I can't stop some people from feeling offended. But I was the one who brought it up after attending a wedding that had that word mentioned so many times in their vows, I was truly wondering what kind of marriage I was witnessing. I've heard the word 'obey' usually mentioned once, but that was like a dozen times. I assumed it had something to do with the faith and forgive me for having NO clue what faith it was. We attended out of politeness for an acquaintance, not a close friend.

 

Did anyone else get married without that word in their vows whether having it intentionally moved or not? Are we odd birds? :)

 

 

No. That wasn't in our vows and we asked for the standard vows. I've been to many, many weddings and that word is nearly always left out of the standard vows.

[Joanne]

IMO, "obey" was taken out before my generation married. I'm 44.

 

I think it's an awful concept for a marriage.

[justamouse]

OK, I was good there for a while and maintained my shutty mouth. But this is text proofing and you're taking the verse out of context to use it to defend your decision.

 

Me too. :) Here was my inspiration for making sure it was in there:

 

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. 1 Peter 3:1-6

 

1st Peter was written to the the churches (Gentile) in Asia Minor and he wrote it because they were having particular problems-They are being persecuted for being Christians, and reverting back to paganisim because they can't take the pressure that the local authorities are placing on them. Nero is king.

 

Some members of the church are fighting against the authorities because they're being mistreated. The families are bickering. The church elders are exerting too much control over the members and stepping in where they shouldn't be.

 

So therefore, Peter is exhorting the women--reminding them whose children they are, and who their husbands are-that they're not to listen to the elders over their husbands. And that they ARE supposed to yield to the authority of the authorities (snerk on my word usage, there). Also, he's writing it from Rome, in which a whole new feminine style had been taking hold-women were not wearing their wedding veils (a sign of marriage, like a ring is now, the married women were committing adultery with abandon (and these were mostly arranged marriages), not caring for their families or children and dressing seductively--so in other words they took off their rings, were sleeping with anyone they wanted and reverting to pagan customs of hair plaiting and jewelry wearing). (Not wearing a veil marked you as an adulteress and brought shame to your family) He's telling them to not be afraid, to stand and remember who they are (and they are at a distinct lack not having been Jews first and knowing about Abraham and Sarah) Peter is seeing this, hearing about the bickering of the families and writes 1 Peter.

 

It is NOT to tell modern women to do the same, we are not suffering like they were then. Our societal signs of marriage are not the same. My church elders are not trying to strong arm my family and override my husband's authority.

Edited September 23, 2010 by justamouse
schpelling

[silliness7]

I'm pretty sure we used the language in Ephesians 5 in our vows...submitting to one another, wife submitting to husband, husband loving wife as Christ loved the church.

 

I don't believe the Bible ever tells wives to obey their husbands. And I don't believe that the underlying Greek word in Ephesians 5 can be translated as obey in the context. But I'm open to correction.

 

I understand that the modern bride might use the word more as submitting or deferring but traditionally the word obey actually meant obey as in Children obey your parents. With such a wonderful variety of words to choose from, I prefer to say what I mean.

 

...not trying to open a can of worms, just my opinion on marriage vows from my limited Christian experience. :001_smile:

 

ETA: Oh I see the can opened up already.

 

Interesting about the Sarah/Abraham thing. I can't exegete that passage in any way and kudos to the pp for taking a shot. I do know that Sarah told Abraham to send Hagar and Ishmael away because Ishmael was mocking Isaac. Conflicted Abraham asks God what to do and God said do what Sarah said. So it seems there's more to the dynamic than we might have in our heads.

Edited September 23, 2010 by silliness7