S/O Astrid's thread--What age do you let your kids choose their religion?

[Chris in VA]

If you believe in letting kids choose what they believe, at what age do you do this?

 

I'm specifically addressing those who are not raising their kids with a Christian outlook, but rather are of the mindset that they want to expose their kids to all religions and let them choose.

 

Side question--in most cases, that smorgasbord (for lack of a better word) doesn't seem to include conservative Christianity. Why is that? (Maybe that is its own thread.) I guess the other part of that would be, what religions would you NOT expose them to and why.

 

I am genuinely curious. I know this thread has the potential to go downhill quickly.

[Marylou]

I appreciate the question. I've often wondered this myself.

[chiguirre]

Side question--in most cases, that smorgasbord (for lack of a better word) doesn't seem to include conservative Christianity. Why is that? (Maybe that is its own thread.) I guess the other part of that would be, what religions would you NOT expose them to and why.

 

I am genuinely curious. I know this thread has the potential to go downhill quickly.

 

I would discourage them from showing any interest in a conservative church because they would likely be targeted by "friends" who would dump them when they didn't want to convert. I've had this happen as an adult and I've had my ds9 targeted by a 12yo who befriended him only to keep talking about reading his Bible and inviting him to a Baptist church. I didn't have the heart to explain that this kid didn't really want to be friends, he just wanted to convert ds. I'm grateful that the relationship just sort of naturally withered and ds didn't get his feelings hurt. I've never had this happen with mainline protestants or less zealous Baptists or Muslims or Jews, so it seems to be most prevalent with certain conservative Christians.

[asta]

Kid has been exposed to/read about/discussed with members of just about everything out there and has more or less settled on an extremely conservative faith at 16.

 

Wild, I tell you. Definitely not what I expected to happen. Not in a bad way, mind you, just not what I expected, given his earlier proclivities.

 

 

a

 

 

ps: "conservative" should not, IMO, be a code word for "evangelical". I would consider Islam, RCC, Orthodox Catholicism, Orthodox Judaism, the Mennonites, etc. all to be very conservative.

Edited July 9, 2010 by asta

[Gooblink]

My mom used to drop my sister and me off at a Lutheran church on Sunday mornings. I asked her why she would do that when nobody else from the family was going to church. She told me she wanted to me to make up my own mind. My dad had been Lutheran and died when I was 3, so I guess my mom felt she needed to do that to honor his memory...who knows?

 

Anyway, I attended that church until I was "confirmed" at age 16 then I left.

 

The whole concept of "choosing" a religion is odd to me. You can't pass on your faith to your kids - faith is such an individual thing and is a gift from God to you, not a gift from you to God.

 

So, my answer is that my kids are exposed to and free to choose from any religion, however I will give them my Christian answer to any other claim to truth. As for their personal religion/faith, I'll leave that up to God to sort out in the course of their own lives.

[Mama Lynx]

"When" doesn't really make sense for us.

 

This will not make sense to the Christians here, but I am not concerned that my children share my belief system. Yes, there is a set of standards and morals to which I am raising them, but those standards and morals do not require them to believe in my Gods.

 

We discuss our beliefs all the time. We guide the kids to find the answers they seek, but they will most likely find different answers than I did.

 

I have no problem with my kids becoming Christian, and would support them in doing so. However, conservative religion (not just Christianity) is tricky for me because many of them have a problem with my beliefs. I would hope that my children, should they choose such a path, remain respectful towards the beliefs of their parents, and choose to surround themselves with people who could share that respect.

[Mama Lynx]

You can't pass on your faith to your kids - faith is such an individual thing and is a gift from God to you, not a gift from you to God.

 

So, my answer is that my kids are exposed to and free to choose from any religion, however I will give them my Christian answer to any other claim to truth. As for their personal religion/faith, I'll leave that up to God to sort out in the course of their own lives.

 

This closely matches how I feel about the issue.

 

I had a similar upbringing to you, as well. Mom would drop us off at Sunday school, but we almost never talked about religion or faith at home. I was hungry for it. I asked to go to church. I tried to pray at home. My parents were not at all comfortable with talking about religion, though. To this day I don't really know what they believe. They call themselves Christians, Methodists, but it's a very nominal thing.

 

I did feel a pull to raise my kids in some kind of church community, and so we tried the UU church for awhile. For various reasons, it ended up not working well for us.

[Chris in VA]

Thanks so much for the replies so far--they are exactly the tone I am looking for, and I really appreciate that.

chris

(hoping I'm phrasing everything alright for everyone)

[creekland]

I don't think a young youngster really has the ability to choose from religions. How young is young depends on the individual. Once they reach their teens and older and have more brain development, then they can comprehend the deeper aspects of religion (including atheism) and will decide for themselves what they want to do. Then, IMO, it becomes real. It may be an extension of how they were brought up or totally different.

 

To a large extent, this doesn't matter how they are brought up from super "religious" to not at all. I can point to IRL case studies for all aspects.

 

As for us, our boys have been raised the way hubby and I believe complete with reasons why we've chosen to believe this way and not some other. I see this as no different than our exposing them to other things we enjoy, foods we eat (and why), values we treasure, vacation style, etc. I know full well that once they are grown up and on their own they will develop totally into "who" they are and there's no way I would disown them at all no matter what they decide. I can't comprehend those that do.

 

Yes, I hope and pray that their faith remains strong and real, but in the end, it's between them and God. I also hope and pray that their values remain strong, that they care for their neighborhood and planet, that they eat mostly healthy foods, and other such things. It's part of being a parent.

[Mejane]

I don't know if someone chooses at a certain point and it sticks for life, kwim? We talk about religion and spirituality all the time, and my kids have run the gamut from atheism to enjoying every-Sunday-church (UU) over the years. At different points in my life, I've held to belief or not. I assume they'll do the same.

[Peela]

I would never presume to choose my child's religion for them, ever.

So, from birth they have always been free to choose.

Dh and I have a life full of spirituality and the kids are exposed to many beliefs and concepts, including Christianity because of some of their friends. Neither appear to have strong religious inclinations.

[Truscifi]

I also don't think 'when' is a question that fits for us. Just as ds will eventually choose what he believes (or choose not to believe anything), only he will know when he is ready to make that choice. I will encourage him to study different faiths through his teenage years, but if he finds something that resonates with him before then I won't stand in his way. And I can't imagine ever sitting him down and saying 'It's time you found religion' or anything like that.

 

Also, conservative Christianity is the predominant belief system in my extended family and dh's as well. I have no doubt family will thoroughly expose ds to their beliefs (grandparents have already started). I am also exposing him to as many other faiths as I can through reading, visiting services, talking to people, etc. Of course, he's young yet. All he cares about right now is the stories and playtime.

[Joanne]

"When" doesn't really make sense for us.

 

This will not make sense to the Christians here, but I am not concerned that my children share my belief system. Yes, there is a set of standards and morals to which I am raising them, but those standards and morals do not require them to believe in my Gods.

 

We discuss our beliefs all the time. We guide the kids to find the answers they seek, but they will most likely find different answers than I did.

 

I have no problem with my kids becoming Christian, and would support them in doing so. However, conservative religion (not just Christianity) is tricky for me because many of them have a problem with my beliefs. I would hope that my children, should they choose such a path, remain respectful towards the beliefs of their parents, and choose to surround themselves with people who could share that respect.

 

 

I'm a (liberal and pluralistic minded) Christian and I agree with the above.

 

My children have been raised (pre and post divorce) in Christian-Church going families. I would have expected they attend with us up to a certain age. All 3 still attend, but we have passed the age at which I'd allow them not to go.

 

If they wanted to switch denominations, religions or embrace a less group based spirituality, I'd support them and even assist them as would be age appropriate. I would talk with them about how I understand, my own spiritual paths. I would also discuss my understanding of their path and any concerns I would have (which would not be based on "you are not Christian").

 

I would discourage literalism and conservatism, extremities.

 

Someone mentioned "small children" and choosing in a previous post. I don't believe small children are capable of choosing - even within the religion they are immersed in as a family.

[Audrey]

"When" doesn't really make sense for us.

 

This will not make sense to the Christians here, but I am not concerned that my children share my belief system. Yes, there is a set of standards and morals to which I am raising them, but those standards and morals do not require them to believe in my Gods.

 

We discuss our beliefs all the time. We guide the kids to find the answers they seek, but they will most likely find different answers than I did.

 

I have no problem with my kids becoming Christian, and would support them in doing so. However, conservative religion (not just Christianity) is tricky for me because many of them have a problem with my beliefs. I would hope that my children, should they choose such a path, remain respectful towards the beliefs of their parents, and choose to surround themselves with people who could share that respect.

 

:iagree: With all of this except, that, although I would learn to deal with it, I would be disappointed if my son became a very conservative christian, and I would have a real problem if he became evangelical about whatever religion he joined.

[elizabeth]

:iagree: With all of this except, that, although I would learn to deal with it, I would be disappointed if my son became a very conservative christian, and I would have a real problem if he became evangelical about whatever religion he joined.

 

Exactly.

[simka2]

This is a tricky one for me...my kids are being raised in Christian home, but I don't want them to just carry one my faith...it's a mess anyway ;) but I do want them to discover something ( a faith, religion, way of living) that works for them.

 

I guess I do want them to develop a relationship with the God I know loves them like crazy! and I hope I can help the do so without falling into the conservative trap I did, but I really have no idea how this will all pan out. I've just chosen to love them NO MATTER WHAT!!!!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

How could one put an age limit on that? When they choose,.....it's done. Maybe not forever, but I would encourage questioning and research. I would actively discourage conservative christianity as I have seen far too much evil and hurt associated with it and I would not welcome that sort of rhetoric in our home.

 

 

But,.....even if a child of mine chose that route I would love him or her and guide them through the process and show unequivocal love and approval.

 

(The other reason I would not encourage conservative chrisitanity is that it is the default around here and they hear/learn about it almost without effort. It takes more effort to learn about OTHER religions.)

[mycalling]

Of course, they need to first start with whether or not they believe in a God at all. I personally don't see one choosing a religion before they're able to understand what all religions believe. There are so many variations within each branch that one should really research. I think that not doing that would be my only qualm with them choosing a religion.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

My dh thinks my 6 year old daughter is old enough to make up her own mind. She asked to go to VBS with a little friend & he thinks she should go (he mainly thinks of it as a fun time for her and free childcare for us). I don't think she's old enough to make any life long decision (she still thinks being a princess is a viable career field), but am comfortable letting her go to church with relatives who I know will not give her the hard sell in order to give her some exposure to religion. we have many open discussions in her presence, mainly because we don't censor any type of discussion for our children's sake.

 

The reason I don't want her going to this evangelical VBS is because it is not about "choice" for the youngsters, it is about convincing them and brainwashing. My opinion only, based on a long experience with evangelical VBS from the inside. Flame away.

 

As to the original question, I don't think I could assign a specific age. As with many parenting questions, it really depends on the child's maturity, ability to understand, and emotional maturity.

[Pegasus]

I'm an atheist and am open to my DC choosing other beliefs. We've exposed them to religious beliefs, read Bible stories, and they've attended church/VBS with friends.

 

When they ask questions, I usually respond with "I believe . . .. Other beliefs are . . . "

 

Pegasus

[Firefly]

To be a good person and spiritually fulfilled is all I want for my children, whatever form that might take. I see spirituality at my dc's ages as fluid, and I expect it to cycle through various forms before they find what works for them as adults. I have no interest in controlling when/if that happens. Right now my daughter strongly identifies as Pagan (like me), whereas DS vascillates between agnosticism (DH), paganism and buddhism. My job is simply to expose them to/facilitate their exploration of different avenues, but the "when" and ultimately the outcome, is completely up to them.

[TravelingChris]

When they go to college. That is when they can decide which congregation they will attend since obviously we don't know what the choices are really like. Our middle and younger will know that support will be dependent on attending a Christian church but which one is their choice.

[Guest Katia]

My dh is a pastor. In our family, all our children attend our church.....until they are 18yo. That is when *I* let them decide if they chose to attend church from week to week or at all.

 

So......I have never really thought about what age they can chose what religion, but since I give them the option to attend church or not when they are 18yo, I suppose that is also when they can chose which place of worship to attend, right?

 

My dd attends church at college when it fits into her schedule, and it is not the same denomination that my dh pastors, but it is her choice, kwim? I'm good with it if she is good with it. While she is at home over summer break, she does not attend our church or any church; she just wants to rest. That is ok with me, too.

 

Now, if this were up to dh, he would have all of the kids attending every service at his church all of their lives.....but when our oldest ds was 18yo, I had to gently remind dh that ds was now an adult and able to make his own decisions. ;) Poor dh, he really will always see the kids as 'children'; it is so hard for him to realize that they are adults now, although I'm sure he will always think of them as his responsibility. And I'm glad of that!

 

So, to summarize: from birth until 18yo, our kids are required to attend all services at our church. After they turn 18yo, the decision is up to them; we place no requirements on them.

[Ester Maria]

We're secular Jews, but very appreciative of what we view as our cultural background; so while our children are not growing up with a "religion", they are growing up in a distinctively "Jewish" home (from kosher kitchen to basic Judaic studies incorporated in the curriculum, etc.), despite us not being observant. Should our children decide to become frum (observant Jews), we would back them up in that decision, especially if it's a thought-out decision rather than a fad - nobody in our extended family would have an issue with the girls staying "within the tribe", on the contrary, many would greet such a decision. The approach is more or less that there is a certain cultural heritage and identity we need to know, but the question of religiosity or atheism is a personal choice. Therefore, I would not have issues with my children choosing that which I didn't choose, say in their late teens, when they're old enough and knowledgeable enough about the whole thing to make an educated choice. There are certain "flavors" I would prefer my daughters not to get into, though, and might not allow them to officially associate themselves with those before they're of age, but generally, I would allow them to be formally associated with most groups at 16-17 years old.

 

Now, regarding non-Judaism (including Messianic)... Here we're reaching a problematic point, since that form of assimilation is still very discouraged even amongst our secular Jewish circles. There's a whole "stay within the tribe" mentality, and even though we view religiosity and the level of religiosity to be a matter of choice, when talking about non-Jewish religiosity, things usually change a bit.

That being said, we would allow such a choice to be made by a child of age (18+) who has thought well about what they're doing, whom are they joining and whom are they willing to officially associate themselves with. I hope that if my daughters cv''s make such a choice in the first place it's certainly not out of fad or peer pressure. For that reason, we wouldn't allow official association until the age of 18, including conversions of any kind. Their religious needs would be fully their expense as well, and some things might change in our "monetary relationship" should they become faithful to other religions and peoples (we might not feel comfortable about trusting them with a lot of money and even property if we felt those might be abused for those needs, etc.).

 

While we do raise our children with elements of religious literacy, and allow them to explore what there is, we do not actively encourage any kind of religious practice and do not wish various groups to exploit our children (in any way - emotionally, financially, you name it), for those reasons, we are not likely to allow them to associate themselves with religious groups (especially non-Judaic) before they're of age. Not that 18 is a magic number for intellectual and "spiritual" maturity, or a magic number for anything, though, it's very individual, but if I'm to generalize, let's say that 18 is our age for making a choice of that kind.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Ester Maria

[dragons in the flower bed]

If you believe in letting kids choose what they believe, at what age do you do this?

 

It's not exactly a dated thing, like, you can get a driver's license when you're sixteen, you may start dating when you're fourteen, you can go to the arcade by yourself at twelve, you can pick your church at ten. I converse with my children about religion at least once a week. I argue with them. I share relevant information they haven't come across yet. I expect that someday they'll know as much or more than me, and they'll start to hold my faiths and beliefs to the same standards that I have always held theirs. On that day, I'll rejoice, for we'll share in the search for truth as companions and equals. I don't care that we agree. I just care that we talk about it, that we understand each other, and respectfully share the enjoyable seeking.

 

I'm specifically addressing those who are not raising their kids with a Christian outlook, but rather are of the mindset that they want to expose their kids to all religions and let them choose.

 

Oh. Well, that's not exactly me then. I am raising my kids with a particular religious outlook, but not a Christian one. I wouldn't say I'm laying out a buffet either, for them to pick and choose what appeals. It's more like building a house. All kinds of ideas have to be dealt with before there's a sound and sturdy structure in my child's mind. Someday I expect they'll start bringing their own materials, and beyond that I am planning for and anticipating the day when they design a remodel.

 

Side question--in most cases, that smorgasbord (for lack of a better word) doesn't seem to include conservative Christianity. Why is that? (Maybe that is its own thread.) I guess the other part of that would be, what religions would you NOT expose them to and why.

 

I'll probably wait a little while on conservative Christianity, Scientology, Hare Krishnas, atheism, and other controversial topics because I don't want the kids to casually mention to someone that Mom was teaching about that in our homeschool the other day. Also, I believe these religions are more controversial because you must have sharp logic skills to slice through the issues without resorting to, "It's obvious, you idiot!"

 

But, I think you essentially just asked, "If it's okay for your kids to choose any religion, why do you try to protect them from my faith?" I think it's because we find that the entrance of a certain type of Christianity shuts down discussion and we are afraid of being shut away from our childrens minds.

Edited July 9, 2010 by dragons in the flower bed

[HRAAB]

I don't understand letting your children 'choose' their religion unless you're only speaking to what church they are physically sitting in on Sundays. Faith and spirituality is such a very personal, intimate relationship; it seems to me those choices begin quietly and are very internal. While you might require your child to attend your church as long as they're at home, those choices might already be taking a very different turn on the inside.

 

My dh requires that our younger children attend church with him (I attend also to preserve unity). By the time they were working and had part-time jobs, he didn't insist they attend. Honestly, this is the way he was raised, and it's his default mode. My younger children have never complained nor minded going to church, but they have definitely found their own paths as they got older. We both respect their right to their own private beliefs.

 

What I chose at 15 did not resemble what I chose at 30 nor does it resemble what I believe now.

[Rivka]

We are Unitarian-Universalists. At five, my daughter already knows that she will one day be expected to figure out her own answers to religious questions - but she'll be doing that within the context and support of our religious community and our UU beliefs. She already has a good sense of religious identity and will explain to people that "We're Universalists, and that means that we think God loves EVERYBODY."

 

When she's around thirteen she will go through a formal Coming of Age program at our church. After that, if she chose to attend services for a different religion or to stop church altogether, I would accept her decision.

 

But yes, I am more cautious about conservative/ fundamentalist Christianity than I am about many other religions. I don't want her exposed to ideas like hell, the devil, total depravity, human unworthiness, etc., until she is much older and has the intellectual and emotional sophistication to evaluate them critically. "Follow our religion or you'll be ****ed to eternal suffering" - I wouldn't want my child to be threatened like that.

[Tap]

I was raised in a mixed faith home and had a 3rd religion in private school. While I do consider myself a Christian, I also have leanings towards other faiths. I was raised to believe that no one religion can be selected by a mortal as the one true religion, as they are all interpreted by man and man is infallible. The result of whick is evdient in all the different religions that all say they are Christian and follow the same book, but in very, very different ways.

 

 

Due to this belief, I have pretty much always allowed my children to choose. They have attended many churches, but obviously not of every single faith. The do currently attend a church I would not pick (I do not attend there) based on a few beliefs/interpretations, but I do see why they are comfortable there. I not only allow them to attend, I pay for camps, help support the ministry and take my children there based on their choice, not mine.

 

As my kids have got older we have discussed this freedom I have given them. The only thing I do feel that I would take issue with, is if they chose a religion at a young age, that makes them want to exclude their family from their lives, based solely on a difference of faith. My dh attended a JW church as a teen with his bff's family. Due to this we have had a few JW friends over the years. I do know they find it an emotional struggle, to excluded family from their lives, who aren't of the same faith. I know that everyone follows the tenets of their faith to different degrees, but I have had many discussions with people of faith with this belief. I would hate for my child to have this struggle at a young age. If they converted as an adult, the ostracism would crush me, but that is not the same as doing it when a child.

 

I am open to religions other than Christianity but would prefer that they at least understand Christianity first. The reason behind this is....if they choose to be Buddhist, they will continue to follow that faith and learn more about it. Very few people, take the time when they are comfortable with a faith to study other faiths. I would like for them to understand me and my faith (as a parent) a bit, before choosing one so drastically different.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tap, tap, tap

[NanceXToo]

I would not think there would be a point where you go "okay, you can choose now!" at all.

 

I would think that it would just be a gradual exploring and coming to their own conclusions of what they believe as they continue to grow and mature and learn. Someday, they may end up choosing one religion. They may end up with more of a hodgepodge/mixed philosophy. They may decide they aren't religious at all. But I think those are just gradual things that you come to as you grow, not ever some point where someone "lets you" or tells you to "choose."

[Haiku]

Side question--in most cases, that smorgasbord (for lack of a better word) doesn't seem to include conservative Christianity. Why is that?

 

Probably because those who would be inclined to let their kids choose from a smorgasbord of religions would tend to be on the more liberal side of things.

 

Tara

[naturegirl7]

I have talked about GOD/Divinity with DS since he was a baby. I wrote him a beautiful bedtime prayer to accompany our "today I am thankful for...." at bedtime. I show him my spirituality in practice (show him how to be kind to people, animals, plants, and such)

Just a few months ago he asked to go to church - totally out of the blue. I didn't even know he knew what a church was. He pointed to the two big churchs onthe drive home and asked if we could go to church "they are really big so people must like them, and they are close to our house" LOL Instead I took him to our local UU church cuz it shares similiar values and beliefs. He LOVES it there and looks forward to it every week.

He has been making his own choices - no magic age for it around here.

[Chris in VA]

It's not exactly a dated thing, like, you can get a driver's license when you're sixteen, you may start dating when you're fourteen, you can go to the arcade by yourself at twelve, you can pick your church at ten. I converse with my children about religion at least once a week. I argue with them. I share relevant information they haven't come across yet. I expect that someday they'll know as much or more than me, and they'll start to hold my faiths and beliefs to the same standards that I have always held theirs. On that day, I'll rejoice, for we'll share in the search for truth as companions and equals. I don't care that we agree. I just care that we talk about it, that we understand each other, and respectfully share the enjoyable seeking.

 

 

 

Oh. Well, that's not exactly me then. I am raising my kids with a particular religious outlook, but not a Christian one. I wouldn't say I'm laying out a buffet either, for them to pick and choose what appeals. It's more like building a house. All kinds of ideas have to be dealt with before there's a sound and sturdy structure in my child's mind. Someday I expect they'll start bringing their own materials, and beyond that I am planning for and anticipating the day when they design a remodel.

 

 

 

I'll probably wait a little while on conservative Christianity, Scientology, Hare Krishnas, atheism, and other controversial topics because I don't want the kids to casually mention to someone that Mom was teaching about that in our homeschool the other day. Also, I believe these religions are more controversial because you must have sharp logic skills to slice through the issues without resorting to, "It's obvious, you idiot!"

 

But, I think you essentially just asked, "If it's okay for your kids to choose any religion, why do you try to protect them from my faith?" I think it's because we find that the entrance of a certain type of Christianity shuts down discussion and we are afraid of being shut away from our childrens minds.

 

Rose, that is an honest and well-thought-out answer. Thanks! I would hope that my faith would not shut down discussion, and I would never want to shut a parent away from her child's mind or heart or life. I feel the need to apologize to you for "my faith" that you've experienced that (or seen that, or at least fear that).

 

I'm not a typical evangelical Christian, if there even is one. I'm a priest's wife, I have an atheist son, my brother is atheist and married to a cultural Jew, and so on. I, too, believe God loves Everybody! But I'm not UU.

 

I'm learning all kinds of things about my own beliefs at the moment. It has been helpful to hear from everyone.

[Laura Corin]

Whenever they are ready to make a choice. It's entirely personal and entirely up to them. The only exception would be a faith which was secretive/separatist/cult-like. Then we would exercise the right to protect our children from undue influence.

 

Laura

[catz]

We are UU as well. My children are exposed to a wide variety of religions and beliefs. But the reason we maybe don't directly expose them to an evangelical setting, is because Evangelical Christians see us as fundamentally flawed just by NOT being Christian and having their exact same faith based beliefs as them. One value that is very important for me to instill in my children is tolerance of people, cultures, and religions of all kinds. It's ok that people call God different words and worship in different ways. It's ok if people meditate or don't pray at all. I'd be fine with my kids choosing their own religion (or choosing none) after their "Coming of Age" ceremony at our church at age 14. I hope they will choose something that reflects the values they were raised with.

[Melinda in VT]

You can't stop your kids from choosing what they will believe. You can control their religious behavior. You can control their religious speech. You can make them afraid to believe something different from you. But at the end of the day, we each believe what we believe.

 

Because of my personal experience, it is important to me that my kids know they can be open and honest with me about their beliefs.

 

Younger kids attend church whenever I go, and that's most Sundays. (Our business or illness sometimes keep me home.)

 

In 5th grade, kids can choose to reduce attendance to two Sundays a month. In 9th grade, kids can choose to reduce attendance to one Sunday a month plus Advent, Palm Sunday, and Easter, but they must also read at least three books a year on a moral, religious, or theological topic.

 

Whether I would allow my minor child to attend the service of another church would depend on the church. I admit that due to my own experiences (including a radical religious shift in my 30s), I am wary of religions that think they have the One True Path. Being humble about your beliefs and treating others with love are huge parts of my religious beliefs, and I would not knowingly encourage my minor child to associate with a religion that taught counter to those.

 

What they do after they are 18 is between them and God. They might make decisions that make me sad, but having a loving relationship with them is more important to me than trying to convince them my religious path is correct.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

Whenever they are ready to make a choice. It's entirely personal and entirely up to them. The only exception would be a faith which was secretive/separatist/cult-like. Then we would exercise the right to protect our children from undue influence.

 

Laura

 

:iagree:I don't think that I can control my daughter's religious beliefs anymore than I think I can control her sexual orientation, her career choices, or any number of decisions she'll eventually make (or realizations she'll eventually come too). I'd never make following a certain religion a requirement for financial support. If I make the choice to support her through college, it will be based on her grades.

 

I'll work hard to accept my daughter for who she is, even if those are choices I wouldn't have made. I'd rather have a loving, close relationship with my child than have a child who feels isolated and alone, or having that child be angry and bitter towards me.

 

And this comes from someone who was manipulated by her parents, and never felt like I really belonged with my family. It took me years to realize that in order to be happy for myself, I needed to accept that my parents (mother especially) was never going to be okay with my lifestyle. So I hide things from them. At 24 years old, I can't have a close friendship with my mother like I wish I could.

[AnitaMcC]

If you believe in letting kids choose what they believe, at what age do you do this?

 

 

I guess I am not who you are addressing this question to since we do raise our kids Catholic. But we do things a bit different than what is "expected" when people hear we are Catholic.

 

Our kids go through Catholic Religious Education until they are 16yrs old (we do it as a homestudy through the Church).

 

We required our kids to do a semester of Comparative Religion course before they graduate high school.

 

We teach them what it means to be Catholic and follow the Catholic traditions. Our kids participate in the sacraments of Baptism, Communion, and Reconciliation. They are not allowed to be Confirmed before they are 18yrs old. We feel that to do that "final" step of becoming Catholic, they need to make that step as an adult. Dh and I refuse to require our kids to commit to a religion. We want them to take that step when they are ready. They will need to take RCIA classes if they want to be Confirmed.

 

At this time our 15yr old Dd is leaning towards Buddhism. 15yr old Ds is leaning towards no religion. He has Asperger Syndrome and for him, absolute scientific proof is what he needs to believe one way or the other. He does believe all people should follow the Golden Rule.

[milovany]

I was just thinking about faiths that practice the sacraments from early on. We are newly Eastern Orthodox (Christian), and part of the sacramental nature of our church is to baptize, chrismate and commune infants very early on. I think traditionally it's on day 40 of their life that they are immersed three times, sealed with oil with the Holy Spirit and given their first Eucharist (the bread and wine which has mystically become the body and blood of Christ, which they continue receiving from then on).

 

We have seven children from ages 2 up to 16, so obviously the youngest ones didn't work out in their brains whether they wanted to be baptized or not, nor do they really choose the Eucharist each week (I should say, they don't necessarily go through the preparations like we do). They just ARE in the church, just like we are in the church.

 

So I guess I'm wondering, what if becoming part of the Church isn't necessarily just a brain-centered decision -- a "choice"? What if it's a living out of the faith, the sacraments, the prayers throughout all of life? Certainly as the kids mature, they could very well walk away from all this -- but for us, being in the Church, getting immersed in its life, living it and participating in its sacraments is as natural as breathing. It is our life.

 

So to the OP, how does that play out in your question?

Edited July 10, 2010 by milovaný

[Chris in VA]

That is very interesting, Milovany. I would say that is the way we are raising our kiddos, too. They were all baptised as infants and raised as Christians. I really don't know what to think about the sacramental grace of baptism. We do say "sealed by the Holy Spirit and marked as Christ's own, forever." I lean toward the idea of free will, and that one can choose to abandon one's upbringing, so, even if you are marked forever as Christ's, I don't really know that he will make anyone go with him if they don't want to. Of course, my hope is that, once my son (getting personal here) finally sees Christ, if he's given the choice, he will want to go with him.

If it's truly not about what we do in this life, but Whose we are, then perhaps someone can say no to God and still have God say yes to him. I really don't know.

 

The wonderful Sunday School curriculum we use (Godly Play) operates on the premise that children seek God, being first sought by him (as is everyone), and already have a relationship with him (fwiw, IDK if the SS curriculum assumes they are baptised, as it is Episcopalian/Catholic in nature, but I don't think so). That would tell me it isn't just a brain decision--and I truly don't believe all faith is an "OK, that sounds good, I'll be XXXX Faith now." I mean, if it is, how can a retarded person have a faith? I do believe they can. That's why I let littles take Eucharist and don't wait for "understanding." Who can truly understand?

 

There is mystery, Mystery, involved.

 

Thanks, M.

[milovany]

So, the same would be true in this situation -- of course the kids maintain their God-given freedom to "walk away" from how they were raised as they mature (just like kids in homes where the parents are not committed to a certain set of religious beliefs who "walk away" from that into, say, the Orthodox church or a Christian-based denominational group or what have you). Just like those up above who said they hope their children don't become conservative or evangelical Christians, I also confess that we hope our kids don't become agnostic, atheistic, or anything at all not tied to the "one holy, catholic and apostolic church." I guess this is just as natural a desire for us as it is for those with no organized religion, no? So we live out our life, just like the others, and the kids maintain their freedom. They can always walk away if they choose to do so later. For now, we immerse them in the historical Christian faith that we've become a part of.

 

NOTE: I worked on that wording hard, and hope I worded it well. Please know I mean no disrespect to anyone who has the approach of not guiding children a certain way. I easily bumble with my words, so please forgive me if I said it poorly.

Edited July 10, 2010 by milovaný

[Ester Maria]

I'd never make following a certain religion a requirement for financial support. If I make the choice to support her through college, it will be based on her grades.

This was probably aimed at me, since I said that some things might change in our "monetary relationship" if my daughters become faithful to other religions and peoples, so let me clarify on this one.

 

My daughters would have to make repeatedly some CHRONIC poor choices in life in order for me to withdraw my financial support from them and/or disinherit them. CHRONIC. Associating themselves with a religion whose tenets I disagree with should normally not fall into that category.

 

However, I believe that I have a full right to refuse for my money to be used to financially support an allegiance I disagree with, and if my child has no their own income to support their new religion from, they CANNOT abuse my financial support to support their new religion. Should my child, say, join a cult that might manipulate them into "donating" their real estate to them for religious needs or whatever (I know a few such cases) - they're better not GETTING that real estate in the first place, because the last thing I want for what I inherited is to end up in hands of some complete strangers because my child had a fad with their religion.

 

The problem with religion and heritage is that it often becomes the issue of loyalty. By choosing to be loyal to a different religion, you sometimes turn back to your own people and associations (not necessarily, though). It only makes sense then, if you really make a thought-out choice of abandoning your people and tradition COMPLETELY, and making some COMPLETELY different associations in your adult life, and of going against what you were raised with, that you do not financially profit from what the generations before you were building to use it to support religions and institutions which are, sometimes, downright against them.

 

Schooling is a completely different issue. I would never withdraw financial help for education and health - two things I swear by. Inheritance might be problematic sometimes - from what I've seen so far, the more you have it, the more problematic it becomes if you heavily disagree with the lifestyle and life choices your children have made, because then your children have a REAL power to influence things and to invest into things that you might NOT want the accumulated effort of many generations before you invested into.

 

While I absolutely disagree with blackmailing your children emotionally or financially - even your adult children - I do believe that there is a line between "yours" and "theirs" and that sometimes you have the right not to make "yours" automatically "theirs" if you disagree with what it might be used for. Nobody is, of course, talking about suddenly withdrawing all financial help from a child that's still being schooled, or letting your child starve, because they dared to make some choices you disagree with. Though I, sadly, know people who did or would do that as well - cut ALL financial ties with children who became loyal to some other religions and institutions. If we're talking about adult children that are able to work and sustain themselves, I suppose that's fair too, even though I cannot imagine saying to a child "Don't count on me on anything monetary ever again" and still make them feel welcome in the family.

 

So, blackmailing, ultimatums, "you're either with us or against us" mentality - NO. They're totally out of the game. But when it comes to the efforts of the generations used for something those would adamantly be against - I believe I do have a right to put some conditionals there.

[IsabelC]

I find this question somewhat bizarre. how could i stop my kids from choosing their religion? are you talking about at what age to allow what level of exposure - eg allowing them to attend church as opposed to reading a child's comparative religion text? whether to allow religious observances in your home - eg purchase halal meat if your child is Muslim? whether to actively encourage your child to commit to your religion by a formal ceremony such as baptism, first communion or confirmation?

 

I'm not into the whole 'expose them to a smorgasbord and let them choose' approach in any case. For one thing, there are thousands of different religions so it would be totally impractical to expose my kids to even a fraction of them. for another, if i wanted the faiths to have a truly level playing field, i would have to spend heaps of time on eastern and African religions to counter-act the christian influence of this society. also, there are some religious practices that i would consider totally unacceptable. and finally, all things being equal, I would prefer that my children did not wind up being religious. No, of course I'm not going to shun them if they do. and it is totally up to them. But I would rather they didn't.

 

as for exposure to religions, there are different types. exposure as in learning about religions and being able to gain some understanding of how religious people think and feel is good, and to be encouraged. we are thinking about actually taking our kids to church services so that they can learn more about the whole thing. But, exposure as in letting people try to convert my children, I will avoid for as long as possible.

 

The part of the brain that is primarily responsible for making serious decisions does not fully mature until somewhere between age 20 and 25, so ideally it would wait until then. But of course I'm not going to be controlling who my 20yo kids talk to lol, so all I can do is try to protect them as long as I can. I have told my mil that if she ever attempts to evangelize the children, contact will be cut off. (I realize that this might sound extreme to some religious folks, but maybe try imagining an alternative scenario - how would you feel if I came to visit and spent ages telling your children that your religion is untrue? You would probably ask me not to do this, and chances are that if I continued, you would no longer consider me welcome in your home.)

 

If one of the children does find her/his way into a religion, the question of what religious practices we would allow would be decided depending on what it was. Obviously some things would be more acceptable to us than others. as in, covering their hair, praying five times a day or crossing themselves would be fine with me, while genital mutilation, ritual sacrifice or going to live in the compound at age 13 as the guru's 23rd wife would not!

 

ETa - please forgive the sporadic capitalization, my keyboard is playing up

Edited July 10, 2010 by Hotdrink

[kalanamak]

If you believe in letting kids choose what they believe, at what age do you do this?

 

I'm specifically addressing those who are not raising their kids with a Christian outlook, but rather are of the mindset that they want to expose their kids to all religions and let them choose.

 

 

Well, I'm not of the mindset to expose to many religions and let him "choose", but if my son chooses at any age, I would respect that. I don't, in regards to the thread spun off of, approve of a child being pressured by a friend to go to church, especially by the threat of losing a friend if they don't conform. That is a terrible lesson about what a "friend" is, IMO, and really cruel to a child who would tend to take it personally.

 

I would add a proviso: given the non-theistic family I am from, and given that my son seems to be mentally and emotionally in my family's line (rather than hubby's fundamentalist family tree), I would watch any sudden and dominating religious beliefs for signs of something going wrong with him emotionally, just as I would watch any radical, unexpected change in habit or outlook.

[Rosie_0801]

That's a non-question around here too. Beliefs about religion are far more important that the actual religion. If they are basing decisions on well thought out foundations, and are polite about it, I'm just fine. Christianity is an acceptable choice, bashing people over the head with a Bible is not. Islam is an acceptable choice, telling me I must wear a headscarf in my day to day life or they wouldn't be able to speak to us any more would result in them not speaking to me any more. (This is no comment on converts to Islam, it's just to illustrate the point about boundaries.) The only belief I can see myself putting effort into indoctrinating them on is that everyone has their own path to follow. ("There is more than one way to skin a cat" but with a prettier mental image :) )

 

Dh and I believe the spiritual is important and that part of them should be developed, but we think they need us to guide them in thinking things through. We also think we should be prepared to act like bouncers if someone is getting inappropriately boisterous in sharing their own beliefs. Actually, I was just talking to dh about this thread and used the analogy of a paddock. (What do you people call them, fields?) We don't mind where they walk in the paddock, but we think we should keep the grass mowed so they can walk with safety and comfort.

 

Rosie

[dragons in the flower bed]

I would hope that my faith would not shut down discussion, and I would never want to shut a parent away from her child's mind or heart or life. I feel the need to apologize to you for "my faith" that you've experienced that (or seen that, or at least fear that).

 

Aw, hon, I can tell that from your posts here! No need to apologize for your faith.

[laundrycrisis]

If you believe in letting kids choose what they believe, at what age do you do this?

 

I don't think I'm "letting" them choose - because it's something that I can not ultimately control for another person anyway. I suppose they will begin their own searching whenever they feel the need to do it. While they are young and need help getting information or experiences, I'll help with that.

 

I'm specifically addressing those who are not raising their kids with a Christian outlook, but rather are of the mindset that they want to expose their kids to all religions and let them choose.

 

I'm not intending to expose them to a wide variety of beliefs so they can choose one. I want to do it so they will be prepared to understand other people, and develop the ability to compare and contrast, find the similarities and differences, etc. IMO learning these things gives us a better understanding of humanity, consciousness, and history. I'm not really concerned with whether or not they ultimately choose one belief system to stick with.

 

Side question--in most cases, that smorgasbord (for lack of a better word) doesn't seem to include conservative Christianity. Why is that? (Maybe that is its own thread.) I guess the other part of that would be, what religions would you NOT expose them to and why.

 

There aren't any religions I would try to prevent them from learning about. I was aligned with conservative Christianity for a few years myself. I will do my best to give them an understanding of those beliefs and ideas. They are going to encounter various forms of Christianity,and I would like for them to understand the ideas behind it.

[MorganClassicalPrep]

There were actually a few people (if I'm remembering correctly..) that mentioned financial concerns in the thread.

 

The way you've phrased it, actually makes complete sense to me. It may not have been your post, but from others I did get the feeling that it was a "with us or against us" type of thing. I'm not calling anyone out, it may work for them, it just goes against the type of relationship I'm personally trying to build with MY daughter.

 

I completely agree that some extreme cases, such as the cult example you gave, would require extreme measures. I would also withhold certain things from my daughter if she was ever brainwashed into joining a cult, with the thought that hopefully she'd leave and her inheritance would be there for her.

 

This was probably aimed at me, since I said that some things might change in our "monetary relationship" if my daughters become faithful to other religions and peoples, so let me clarify on this one.

 

My daughters would have to make repeatedly some CHRONIC poor choices in life in order for me to withdraw my financial support from them and/or disinherit them. CHRONIC. Associating themselves with a religion whose tenets I disagree with should normally not fall into that category.

 

However, I believe that I have a full right to refuse for my money to be used to financially support an allegiance I disagree with, and if my child has no their own income to support their new religion from, they CANNOT abuse my financial support to support their new religion. Should my child, say, join a cult that might manipulate them into "donating" their real estate to them for religious needs or whatever (I know a few such cases) - they're better not GETTING that real estate in the first place, because the last thing I want for what I inherited is to end up in hands of some complete strangers because my child had a fad with their religion.

 

The problem with religion and heritage is that it often becomes the issue of loyalty. By choosing to be loyal to a different religion, you sometimes turn back to your own people and associations (not necessarily, though). It only makes sense then, if you really make a thought-out choice of abandoning your people and tradition COMPLETELY, and making some COMPLETELY different associations in your adult life, and of going against what you were raised with, that you do not financially profit from what the generations before you were building to use it to support religions and institutions which are, sometimes, downright against them.

 

Schooling is a completely different issue. I would never withdraw financial help for education and health - two things I swear by. Inheritance might be problematic sometimes - from what I've seen so far, the more you have it, the more problematic it becomes if you heavily disagree with the lifestyle and life choices your children have made, because then your children have a REAL power to influence things and to invest into things that you might NOT want the accumulated effort of many generations before you invested into.

 

While I absolutely disagree with blackmailing your children emotionally or financially - even your adult children - I do believe that there is a line between "yours" and "theirs" and that sometimes you have the right not to make "yours" automatically "theirs" if you disagree with what it might be used for. Nobody is, of course, talking about suddenly withdrawing all financial help from a child that's still being schooled, or letting your child starve, because they dared to make some choices you disagree with. Though I, sadly, know people who did or would do that as well - cut ALL financial ties with children who became loyal to some other religions and institutions. If we're talking about adult children that are able to work and sustain themselves, I suppose that's fair too, even though I cannot imagine saying to a child "Don't count on me on anything monetary ever again" and still make them feel welcome in the family.

 

So, blackmailing, ultimatums, "you're either with us or against us" mentality - NO. They're totally out of the game. But when it comes to the efforts of the generations used for something those would adamantly be against - I believe I do have a right to put some conditionals there.

[Rosie_0801]

I'm not intending to expose them to a wide variety of beliefs so they can choose one. I want to do it so they will be prepared to understand other people, and develop the ability to compare and contrast, find the similarities and differences, etc. IMO learning these things gives us a better understanding of humanity, consciousness, and history. I'm not really concerned with whether or not they ultimately choose one belief system to stick with.

 

Yup, that.

 

Rosie

[nd293]

If you believe in letting kids choose what they believe, at what age do you do this?

 

The wording is difficult. Belief, by it's nature, is not permitted or forbidden. It just is.

 

That quibble aside, I would allow my dd9 to read whatever she wanted about any religion she wanted at any age she was interested enough to ask for information. On the other hand, I would not allow her to sign up for a religious holiday camp (that's just come up, actually) because I do not think she is old enough to know when she'd being manipulated into accepting other people's views. In WTM terms, she's not accomplished enough in logic to identify emotive language in arguments etc.

 

I am more ambivalent about another scenario: what if she came home and said "X is such a fantastic person, and her parents are so kind. I know she is Y religion. Could I go with her to a service?"? I don't know...

 

I was raised in a religious environment, and I know how as a child I responded on a purely emotional level to religious ideas. It was only in my mid-teens that I started to questions beliefs and values on an intellectual level, and find my own path.

 

Nikki

[JennyD]

Islam is an acceptable choice, telling me I must wear a headscarf in my day to day life or they wouldn't be able to speak to us any more would result in them not speaking to me any more.

 

We're Jewish (reform) and I sometimes wonder how I would handle it if my children became very observant as adults and would no longer eat in our home because we don't keep strictly kosher. Truthfully, I'd probably wind up doing whatever it took, because it would just kill me not to be able to all eat together.