Already annoyed with local homeschooling group

[Murphy101]

For a party though? I mean why would you sit around and wait for her? Just start....? I do. Whatever they miss is whatever they miss.

 

I agree on that.

 

Unfortunately folks that are late tend to not be okay with it. They come in wanting to be brought up to date on all they missed and can we give them a minute and blahblahblah. For a party it not much of an issue. But it is very rude in a class or other less casual settings.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If it is a class, then the teacher needs to be there on time, the students need to be there on time, and the class needs to start on time. I can see perhaps a couple times a year where something unusual happens to mess that up for the teacher and class, because unavoidable things do happen to all of us, but that's about it.

 

If it is a play/ park day sort of thing, I could see it being more of an open house sort of thing . . . people can come between 1 and 3 pm. Even then though if I was the coordinator, I would feel that it would be my job to be there the entire time.

 

You mentioned being involved in other groups. I would skip this group and focus on the others.

[MariannNOVA]

If it is a class, then the teacher needs to be there on time, the students need to be there on time, and the class needs to start on time. I can see perhaps a couple times a year where something unusual happens to mess that up for the teacher and class, because unavoidable things do happen to all of us, but that's about it.

 

If it is a play/ park day sort of thing, I could see it being more of an open house sort of thing . . . people can come between 1 and 3 pm. Even then though if I was the coordinator, I would feel that it would be my job to be there the entire time.

 

You mentioned being involved in other groups. I would skip this group and focus on the others.

 

:iagree:

[TCB]

I haven't read all the posts but you know just because someone is late for this sort of thing doesn't mean they necessarily show up late for work. I'm always on time for work but not always on the dot for social things. Frankly I enjoy not having to be so scheduled some of the time.

If you really hate it so much then maybe this isn't the group for you. But it sounds like you felt you had to leave to make a point and to me that seems a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face ( if they have that expression here in the US.)

[QueenCat]

But it sounds like you felt you had to leave to make a point and to me that seems a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face ( if they have that expression here in the US.)

 

:001_smile:Yes, we use that expression here in the U.S.

[Tap]

Another thought would be to start with out them. In the Spanish group, pull out last weeks assignments and start doing review. Ask other kids who come in to join you. Once the teacher gets there and gets set up, you can bow out. That way it isn't a complete loss.

 

I find that if the teacher tends to be late occasionally, then the class tends to start late all the time. Some people feel like you, that it is a waste of their time to be on time if others aren't, others are just chronically late.

 

If it bothers you to wait the 15 minutes, then plan to take something with you to work on. Either review, a book to read (poetry is great since you can start/stop easily), test prep work books, reading comprehension work, spelling word review, etc. Just anything that is independent of your regular subjects, and you can start and stop without causing more stress.

[teachermom2834]

I am pathologically prompt and it drives me nuts when others are ALWAYS late. I found a group with a bunch of boys my boys liked and the moms were nice. I would have rolled with 15-20 minutes with this group and just let it go but it was more like an hour - 90 minutes late. It is a bad feeling to take your kids out to the park to try a new group and be the only ones there for an hour. You start to wonder if you have the wrong date/ time, etc. And then everyone gets there and has to socialize. My little kids were done by the time a party would start because we had already been there 2 hours. It was nuts. The final straw was a field trip where the person coordinating the field trip was 90 minutes late. When she did arrive her family had cups/ bags from a fast food restaurant. That was just too much. If we were running over an hour late for a tour my kids would grab something from home to eat in the car or they would go hungry. I can't see sitting in a drive thru while 20families are waiting for me so a tour can start. Plus, my kids were all in trouble by the time the tour started because I had to tell them to stand still/ stop running/ etc. for all the time we were waiting.

 

I couldn't handle that and had to bail. 15-20 minutes I would just tell myself to take deep breaths and relax. Get to know the moms. They might be worth it. They might not be. Good friends are hard to come by and as annoying as it is I would roll with some lateness if we got some really great friends out of it.

[Mom2J112903]

I agree if it was a "come and go as you please" sort of thing I would not be as upset. Yet it was to *start* and *end* at specific times, they had a room that was for a specific time.

 

The ASL teacher was late *once* in the times that I have gone, which of course is not many, yet she always mentions that people do tend to run late.

 

We do have other groups and thru the summer this homsechooling group will be at the bottom of our list. They do not schedule things like the others over the summer yet when school starts back they will since everyone else will be out of our way as it was put. I am a very scheduled person myself, and have to be for various reasons-not only J. Life becomes *way* too hectic for us if it is not scheduled.

 

I just wanted to make some friends, and we have, that have the same intrests as us. This is the first time I have came to know people who do not seem to care about time and yes, it does strike a raw nerve with me. If they want a function to be "come and go as you please" then say that, not schedule something for a certain time and then not show up on time.

 

I keep J as much on a schedule as possible, we *are* working on being less rigid, but for now, the way we do things with J works for us. There is nothing wrong with being a routined person and it keeps everyone happy around home, which is a *very* important thing.

[Night Elf]

If you don't like it, you can choose not to be a part of that group. I do understand your frustration over something that is important to you. But you should also understand that what is important to you is not necessarily important to someone else. There is a huge difference between being 15 mins. late for a homeschool function and being 15 mins. late for a paid job. I don't think being late for the homeschool function warrants such a harsh judgment of these other people. For me personally, I cannot even imagine being so micro-managing with my time. That would drive me absolutely nuts. One of the reasons I homeschool is for the relaxed and flexible lifestyle it affords us.

 

Now that is just me. I do think it's extremely strange that everyone in the group is always 15 mins. late. I can understand one or two people being perpetually late, but every single person that is participating? That's bizarre.

[HeidiKC]

If it is a class, then the teacher needs to be there on time, the students need to be there on time, and the class needs to start on time. I can see perhaps a couple times a year where something unusual happens to mess that up for the teacher and class, because unavoidable things do happen to all of us, but that's about it.

 

If it is a play/ park day sort of thing, I could see it being more of an open house sort of thing . . . people can come between 1 and 3 pm. Even then though if I was the coordinator, I would feel that it would be my job to be there the entire time.

 

:iagree:

 

Sometimes a class can't begin until everyone is there and/or it is disruptive to have people arriving once it has begun. So people should make every effort to be on time for a class so as to not hold the group back.

 

A park/play day seems like it would be fine for people to come ANY time.

 

A party or other social event - I don't know many people who want to arrive exactly at the time the event begins. I guess that's where we get the term "fashionably late". I don't think most people expect guests to arrive right as the party begins (unless it is a child's birthday party). I would say 15-30 minutes "late" is exactly right, depending on the event.

[LibraryLover]

I have told folks that unless it's a class, we will get there when we get there (I have several kids to ferry about). Things like 'park days' where kids play on the swings and throw frisbees are not events I am going to kill myself to get to at exactly 2. ;)

 

A class is different, and people should be on time.

 

In your case, I think you should look for a different group. I would never be so annoyed if people were not at a park at 'on time'. We would have fun on our own for a few minutes. That is not something that would get me riled. These are *not* Your People. That's ok. Every family has different needs. You'll find your folks.

Edited May 30, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Guest janainaz]

Well, I'm not part of any homeschool group for MANY reasons, and I guess that is one of them.

 

I'm fairly timely - I might run five minutes late now-and then. But I also understand that it is a far different situation for some women who have a lot going on at home and varied ages. It's not easy and my disposition is that I'd be happy for them to just show up, even if it's late. For everyone to be fifteen minutes late is absurd and I think that is not the norm.

 

But I'll say this: If homeschool groups annoy you, don't go. Your kids are not missing much.

 

This is the reason that I don't do co-ops, either. I'm not going to wait on anyone when I just want to get actual WORK done. Playing on swings is another situation entirely.

[Tohru]

I've read through all the post. Just my thoughts...

 

If you are early and the group is late, then it seems like you've waited a lot longer than you actually did. This probably adds to any aggravation you're feeling.

 

You only have 1 child and a few hsers do have more than 1. It takes longer to get 2 or more kids shoe-ed, in the car and buckled up. It is frustrating for me because I used to be prompt when I had an only child and now I am consistently late with a toddler. It doesn't matter how early we try to leave, something always happens. Always. My friends are gracious and excuse it. I excuse it in others. Being gracious is one of the best gifts a friend can give.

 

There *are* some really great people and kiddos in the group. This is what is so frustrating, J is already forming friendships and I *really* want this to work out.

 

Is is really that hard to be on time???

 

Part of friendships is understanding and accepting other people's positive and negative traits.

 

Perhaps you should change the lesson you'd like to teach your son to 'People and friends are important.' And then later when he is older work on the lesson 'Being on time is important'.

 

 

If this particular group is ALWAYS going to start late, it's probably not the group for you. I think that it's your call......what I have learned is that you can't change people so you have to make a decision as to whether or not you will continue with this group. :)

 

:iagree:

 

 

If their tardiness makes you this furious and your son is emotionally traumatized, then perhaps these friends just aren't worth it.

Edited May 30, 2010 by jadedone80

[Danestress]

I would be on time for a class. A social gathering, I get there when I get there. If I am first, I generally don't mind waiting. I'm okay waiting - I spend so much time waiting at doctors' offices, waiting while my kids do sports, etc. I never go anywhere without something to do. I would just get the book out of the car and read with my son IF I really wanted to bond with some other homeschoolers. There is a limit to how long I would wait, but I would certainly have already mentally blocked off more then 15 minutes of the day for this event, so if I waited longer, I wouldn't have really "lost" anything, at least in my own mind.

 

I understand you might feel differently, and that's okay. This may not be the group for you. But I honestly don't think that that when homeschool social time starts at a certain time, I have to be there right at that time. A co-op or class would be different.

[LibraryLover]

There *are* some really great people and kiddos in the group. This is what is so frustrating, J is already forming friendships and I *really* want this to work out.

 

Is is really that hard to be on time???

 

If this is important to you, program the 15-20 minute delay into the schedule for that activity, and let it go. Don't bother talking about the time frame to your child. Don't work him up. He is 6.

 

If you can't : 1. This is not your group. 2. You've over-scheduled your day. Unless you have a Drs appt, 6 yr olds do not need to be scheduled to the moment, and 3. Do not sign up for anything else when there is a cool thing planned with this group.

 

Sometimes our gatherings last 4 or 5 hours. We get out the drums and guitars....I would not change this close dynamic for us for anything in the world, so 15 minutes to gather together is simply a time to breathe and relax. My dc and I can sit together and chat, we can finish listening to our book on tape/disc, we can listen to music, we can take a little walk to chill. It can be rare to find 15 easy mintues sometimes, so I welcome the moments. If I didn't have to wait at the dentist office, I would never get to read People. ;)

Edited May 30, 2010 by LibraryLover

[specialmama]

I'm in the :chillpill: side of the room. Seriously. I'd never leave an event just because others hadn't arrived yet. It's the culture, so adapt. J will only learn it's ok to be late if you teach him that. So show up later, that's all. And plan to stay 15 minutes later, too. Most of all, relax, let down your hair, have fun. It's good to schedule that in also. These years will whip by quicker than you know, and I've yet to hear a mom say "I wish we'd stuck to our schedule more."

[Melissa in Australia]

Same thing happens in my homeschool group, it is meant to start at 1pm. I have a 3/4 hour drive to get there. I arrive at 1pm. and others start arriving from 1.30 onwards. I have to leave at 3pm, for the long drive back to my town for basketball. Most of the people arrive at 3pm, and are always upset that I am just leaving as they arrive!

this is the only social thing my kids do apart from basketball. It is such a shame that the other homeschoolers ( all who only live a few minutes from the venue) have such a blase attitude.

[Mom2J112903]

This group is very small and less than 10 people (I think only 5) RSVP'd to the party. If it had been at a park or somewhere that J could play, we would have had no problem waiting, yet it was not.

 

When something is scheduled for a certain time, I make plans for that evening-even if it is just meeting DH at home for dinner. He is only home 30 minutes a day when he works, so something running over 15 minutes is HUGE to us.

 

J was not in tears over the party, he was very upset when it was 345p and no one had shown for the ASL class the first time we arrived since we thought no one was coming as it was schedulded to start at 330p. Like I said J was not too thrilled with the idea of the party when he found out it was not like he was used to. Yes, he will have to get used to the fact that not every party he attends has inflatables, shaving cream, water ballons, etc. He was not feeling 100% as is, yet we went ahead and headed over so he he could see some of his new friends.

 

I plan to take J to a hands-on Science Museum that has classes for homeschoolers. I would be highly offended if people came in late, that disrupts the entire class.

 

If it is a come and go as you please, it needs to state that.

 

I will sometimes already have things planned since this group does not seem to plan things until the last minute. We are supposed to get together on Fridays, but nothing is scheduled yet. While I do know that this happens every Friday, I do have other groups/friends that already have things planned weeks in advance. I need to know what my Friday holds so I can plan for ourselves, DH's work schedule is not always easy to schedule around, so having things scheduled is *very* important.

 

This is just the first time I have came into a group that does not seem to care about time or scheduling and for *me* that is very frustrating.

[AHASRADA]

Apparently this hs group IS a culture in which running late is accepted.

 

You may not want to adapt to the culture, and that's certainly your right (I'm pretty punctual myself), but I wouldn't waste time getting angry over it or trying to change it.

 

:iagree: I am extremely punctual, and I can certainly be annoyed by late people (especially if they are in my own family, causing me to be late!) I do everything in my power to be on time for appts., classes, etc., events with specific starting times.

 

For social events, however, I am usually on time for the first one. I then begin to get a feeling for the "culture" of the family or group involved, and adjust my definition of "on-time" accordingly. For many people, "on-time" means within 30 min. or so of the stated time, so that is when I plan to arrive. Also, if a beginning and ending time is stated, such as for a b-day party, I will be on-time, since activities are presumably scheduled, and I wouldn't want my dc to miss out on anything. If it is open-ended, such as "from 2pm on", I would assume people will arrive when it is convenient for them, staying later or leaving earlier based on their schedule (such as a park day) and I will do the same.

 

I agree your son is learning to be on-time from your example, and he can continue to do so, without demonizing the other "late" hsers. I would say something like, "Hmm, I guess when this group says 2pm, they really mean 2:30. That's when we will come next time." I would not see it as a personal insult, unless they were meeting you "personally" and you were the one who had set the time. Punctuality is commendable, but so is being accommodating and understanding of differences.

 

I would be careful about crossing the line between teaching your son the importance of being on time, and teaching him to be a "punctuality-elitist", where everyone who doesn't meet your definition of "on-time", whatever their reasons or culture, is looked down upon and scorned. I would use the opportunity to practice empathy and tolerance.

 

You (the OP) also mentioned that for some of these moms hsing is "it", and that you have other things to do. Again, from the perspective of teaching your ds yes, it is important that he know his mom has other interests, committments, etc. and that you aren't his slave or personal chauffeur. At the same time, you don't want him feeling that he and his activities are less important, and that your comments about the other moms "wasting your time" by being late, don't translate to "his activities" wasting your time, in his mind.

 

We all put up with an awful lot for the benefit of our kids, and I bend over backwards to get them to their events, regardless of the behavior of other hsing moms. I'm sure you can find a way to adapt to the culture of the group, continue to teach your ds the importance of punctuality while respecting individual differences, and ensuring that he feels valued and worth sacrificing a bit of your time for.

[Mom2J112903]

His activities are important, I do actually do not have anything for *myself*. He understands that time is important, we have a specific amount of time for an activity and if people are late, that cuts his "fun" time down.

 

It will be very hard for me to adjust, yet I will, for J, and he will learn that while it is not acceptable to us to be late, for others that is how *they* feel comfortable with life. We will still leave when the event is scheduled to be over, no matter how late the others are.

 

I do not understand nor will I be empathetic with someone whom knows what time an event starts and yet does not do the nesseccary things to ensure a prompt arrival. I know that things happen, I had a *very* sick infant/toddler, yet I did everything in my power to make certain we arrived on time. Do not start getting ready for an event 15 minutes prior to starting when you have a 15+ drive time.

[2cents]

I'm one of those that is pathologically punctual. Having once taught some classes in a small hs group, I know how annoying it is having to wait on people. When I waited (sometimes over 45 min!) it only meant we had to stay longer which was hard on the kids. Group pressure kept us in the 'let's wait on them' mode long enough for me to get really frustrated. Finally, I decided that if it was my turn and I spent all that time getting things ready etc. then we start ON TIME and no backtracking for stragglers. Instead of getting angry at the inconsideration of others, I just changed what I could. Those that were late (for non-emergency issues) just lost out.

 

I really get annoyed that sometimes hs'ing has become associated with chronic lateness as a type of trait. I don't buy that homeschooling personality has any bearing on chronic lateness. In my opinion it is lack of organization and disregard for other people's schedules. Personally it is hard to be chill when it annoys the heck out of me. The only way I actually became ok with it was when I found ways to deal with it (for myself). If we have to be somewhere and know that waiting on someone will make us late then we go by ourselves. We set a time limit. If a coop class has started 15 min late because the teacher wanted to wait on all the late kids (who a lot of time were goofing off down the hall) then at class end we get up and go. My time is important to me and I want to teach my children that being punctual is a good because it shows respect and people will know that they can count on you. It is interesting to note that sometimes when people know that you will stick to your guns, they begin showing up or starting things on time. Sometimes we really do teach people how to treat us by our own behavior.

[elegantlion]

I'm one of those that is pathologically punctual. Having once taught some classes in a small hs group, I know how annoying it is having to wait on people. When I waited (sometimes over 45 min!) it only meant we had to stay longer which was hard on the kids. Group pressure kept us in the 'let's wait on them' mode long enough for me to get really frustrated. Finally, I decided that if it was my turn and I spent all that time getting things ready etc. then we start ON TIME and no backtracking for stragglers. Instead of getting angry at the inconsideration of others, I just changed what I could. Those that were late (for non-emergency issues) just lost out.

 

I really get annoyed that sometimes hs'ing has become associated with chronic lateness as a type of trait. I don't buy that homeschooling personality has any bearing on chronic lateness. In my opinion it is lack of organization and disregard for other people's schedules. Personally it is hard to be chill when it annoys the heck out of me. The only way I actually became ok with it was when I found ways to deal with it (for myself). If we have to be somewhere and know that waiting on someone will make us late then we go by ourselves. We set a time limit. If a coop class has started 15 min late because the teacher wanted to wait on all the late kids (who a lot of time were goofing off down the hall) then at class end we get up and go. My time is important to me and I want to teach my children that being punctual is a good because it shows respect and people will know that they can count on you. It is interesting to note that sometimes when people know that you will stick to your guns, they begin showing up or starting things on time. Sometimes we really do teach people how to treat us by our own behavior.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Scuff]

I'm probably late more than I'm on time. I try, but something usually happens and we're a few minutes late. I'm defintely the laid back type. But still, I don't get the people who are saying it's ok to show up half an hour to an hour late. Or leaving at the start time. Really? If you plan to leave at the start time, you're planning to be late. I *hate* being late (even though I often am). I always feel like we're missing something if we show up late. But showing up an hour late? Might as well not go; it's half over when you show up! I will say that it's not limited to homeschoolers. :)

[kewb]

I suffer from chronic on-time disorder. My dh does not. I hate being late; He thinks 15 minutes late is still on time. 17 years later this still drives me batty. It drives me batty in homeschool gatherings as well. The "homeschoolers are never on time or don't bother to show up" problem is rampant where I am. If I am going to be late or not show up I call. I have hosted events and have had people say they would come and they don't show or call or send an email. That is just plain rude behavior. I have learned to deal with it. Punctuality is my thing. I can not change what others do. I can only change the way I react to what they are doing.

 

I do have a core group of punctual fanatics like myself and that helps my stress level.

[mirth]

 

I do not understand nor will I be empathetic with someone whom knows what time an event starts and yet does not do the nesseccary things to ensure a prompt arrival. I know that things happen, I had a *very* sick infant/toddler, yet I did everything in my power to make certain we arrived on time. Do not start getting ready for an event 15 minutes prior to starting when you have a 15+ drive time.

 

Oh sing it sister! I went twice to 2 different homeschool workshop things intended for parents (read: no kids in attendance at all). The first time it started 30 minutes late waiting for registered latecomers who never showed! I had a paid sitter for the kids who was expecting me back no later than nn:00 pm. As a result, I had to leave early and spent no $$$ on any of the auxilary materials for sale at the end. A month later, I actually (stupidly) went to a supposedly advanced version of the workshop. This time it only started 10 minutes late. BUT ... when the speaker casually realized that maybe 35% of the audience had not rec'd basic info on this subject (why did they even go??), she spent the next 30 minutes presenting basic info again. Again I had to leave "early" knowing nothing more and spending $0 on anything. Waste of time, waste of gas. Idiotic business practice.

Edited May 30, 2010 by mirth

[Dmmetler]

Take a low priority for many people and are seen more as "social" than as "school".

 

I teach group music classes and private lessons. Invariably, most kids are on time for private lessons, which parents tend to see as an important part of their child's education, no matter what sort of school they attend. But when it comes to group music classes, well, there's always one parent who seems to feel that if she gets her child there before the end of class, she's on time. And that's usually the one who complains that her child didn't get to play the instruments or isn't learning anything.

 

I see the same thing in DD's dance classes-parents who consider dance an important part of their child's life are there on time. Parents who do not get there whenever. And the recital showed it-the kids who were habitually late were the ones who were sloppy and out of sync. (I'm hoping that it works the way one of the experienced parents said it did for her older DD, where the kids of flaky parents either start pressuring their parents to get them there on time, or that they drop out when they're not able to move up a level because they don't have the skills, so that after a couple of years, you have solid groups).

 

 

I suspect that you've found a group where the activities are seen as fun, social things for the kids to do, and you're putting more weight on them. So you have to decide if it's worth the stress on you for the social time. I would NOT rely on any class with such a group as part of your son's education.

[lailasmum]

I have organised a home education group for a few years and It really winds me up when people are late or just don't show. Its no biggy when people come in within the first 20 minutes or so, kids can make you late, especially young ones and it doesn't take much to get caught in a traffic snarl up.

 

Its the people who wander in 1 to 2 hours late in a 3 hour session in a venue we are are paying for, to do pre planned activities that they have agreed to do, that really seriously annoy me. Its not only that they disturb everyone else by running late, its that they get out of the group set up.

 

More often than not its the same people who don't pay their contribution to hall hire because they have forgotten their wallet that week, and the same people who bow out early, and get out of clear up.

 

Because we are a really small community it can make continuing group activities really hard.

 

I have spoken to other people who run home ed groups and heard similar things. I think its really common to have these issues, doesn't make it any easier. i have got to a point that I just don't understand why people bother coming so late. We have a couple of big families, one with 6 kids under 8 and one with 4 kids under 8 and they manage to be on time so why can't the others. Its just a total different mind set.

 

I just think its common courtesy to turn up on time to a scheduled group session.

 

I am starting a new Art group this week so will be interesting to see how many families turn up on time.

Edited May 30, 2010 by lailasmum

[Oney Jones]

I already spoke with J about not being able to stay if they had been late-he understands that our time is important and we had other things to do yesterday. We just could not stay and wait while there were other things to be done that could not wait any longer. He was, and is still not, feeling 100%, so waiting around and getting annoyed was not jiving well with him.

 

Apologizing now if I repeat someone else's thoughts on this.

 

If you had "allocated" say, an hour for this ASL class then your schedule should allow for that hour. Now, sure you're upset because no one else is there for the class and obviously DS cannot have the lesson until the instructor gets there. So... instead of leaving after 15 minutes, how about give it the hour (or however much time you planned). When the instructor finally shows up you let the lesson go on until said allotted time is up and then explain nicely that you have to be on to your next appointment for the day and do not want to be late.

 

This would 1) show --in an albeit passive-aggressive way)--that you take time commitments very seriously and do not tolerate tardiness and 2) put the monkey on the instructor's back (you're not the "bad guy" in your son's eyes) about the length of the class.

 

Obviously, explain to your son that you'll stay as long as you've allocated time for the lesson but that you'll have to leave at X-o'clock to get on to your next adventure on time. That will teach him that being on time for things is important for you without a lecture. :) If he only gets 20 minutes of an hour lesson because others were late then THEY are shortchanging him... not you. ;)

 

The whole "homeschoolers are always late" thing bothers me. It's like saying "homeschoolers are always social derelicts. It's not true.

[Oney Jones]

Oh, and if you're paying for lessons by the hour I would certainly make my next payment reflect the actual time DS was being taught... ... sure, that might cause sparks to fly but you'll get your point across about the VALUE OF TIME.

[StephanieZ]

I think you've gotten good advice here. . . and I would generally advise you to try to chill, as you aren't going to be able to change the culture/dynamic of a group to which you are brand new.

 

A few thoughts. . .

 

+ Once you have made one or two adult friends (moms) in the group, you can chat directly with those moms ahead of time. . . saying "We'll be there right on time b/c I have to leave by 4 to get home to have dinner w/dh. . . Do you think you and Jimmy can arrive near 2 so we won't be all alone?" As you show yourself to be both enjoyable company and reliably on time (or early), some of the moms might well be more timely.

 

+ I am not sure, but it sounds like your 6 yo is your only child? It is likely that many/most of the other hs moms have additional children. This complicates life immensely. I just have three, and I have immense appreciation for those with more. . . and appreciation for those who have very young kids (my youngest is 7) since I do remember how hard it was to get out of the house at all with several very young kids, let alone arrive on time.

 

Older dc will have other competing activities that the mom might be squeezing in, frantically trying to get everyone everywhere. Imagine have 5 kids worth of doctors appts, teams, classes, errands, etc. Not to mention 5 kids worth of illnesses, bad moods, tempertantrums, etc.

 

Younger dc also have naps, schedules, teething, nursing jags (my oldest would take over an hour to nurse, and without fail followed nursing with vomiting and pooping, which required clothing changes for baby and mom. . .)

 

Also, some dh's are less flexible than others. Some moms might have a dh at home who expects dinner at a certain time. . . or cleaning to be done before you leave home. . . or kids dressed in certain matching outfits at all times. . . or wife having hair/makeup/outfit done in a certain way. . . or whatever. . . This issue would generally not ever be spoken, but those of us with a flexible and understanding dh shouldn't forget this.

 

Of course, other moms will have paid jobs that may or may not offer great flexibility. . . and might be late b/c of a shift that ran late or a project that couldn't be postponed. . . Again, you will often never know about this.

 

Or, an aging parent depending on the mom for care/support/etc who makes unpredictable and nonnegotiable demands on mom's time. . . Calls from the nursing home, frequent emergency doctor visits, prescriptions or laundry that must be picked up. . . etc

 

Moms will generally avoid complaining/offering excuses for their tardiness when it involves the 2 yo's temper tantrum or the 6 mo old's nursing jag or the 13 yo's temper tantrum (LOL). . .or their 13th call of the week from their aging parent. . . or their nursing shift that ran late b/c of the dying patient and frantic family members. . . As you get to know these women, you'll likely understand the complexities of their lives enough to be able to easily forgive/forget their tardiness and to appreciate the effort they go to in order to get anywhere anytime.

 

I find life to be more enjoyable if I just go with the presumption that people have reasons, mean well, and do the best they can. It's not about ME, it's about them. .. and bless their hearts. . .

 

+ My advice: You and your child will benefit from adopting an attitude of flexibility. . . Pretend you are in the Caribbean. Joke about "Carribean time" and just go with the flow. . . bringing something to entertain yourselves while you wait. Make your own party!

 

+ Often the "after party" time (post-scheduled time) can be the most enjoyable part of an event. Are you certain you want to miss this (when it is convenient for you) in order to prove a point? What point are you proving? To whom? Is that really an important lesson (compared with. . .)?

 

+ Please don't think I don't get it. I do. I am on time the vast majority of the time. . . with special attention paid to classes, lessons, etc. One of my first, best, mom friends drove me crazy with constantly being very late or cancelling at the last minute. Drove me bonkers and induced many tears in my toddler. I learned to not tell my toddler that we were going to see this friend until they were actually in view! (To this day! 14 years later! Still friends, now long-distance. . .) I also learned to schedule activities/meetings for places we could enjoy whether or not they showed up. (Nature centers, parks, my home. . . NOT restaurants!) After months of frustration, I accepted that this was just how this woman was. . . and I loved her anyway. . . so I found a middle way so we could all enjoy our relationship w/o undue frustration.

 

+ When *I* organize classes, book clubs, etc, that depend on everyone being there. . .I try to make clear what the actual start time is. . . and surprisingly, almost all moms, even those who are ritually late for more casual things, are on time for my stuff. My first art day was last month and 6 out of 7 families were early or on time. . . and the 7th later offered detailed explanation and apology (unprompted). For our teen's book club. . . I arranged the schedule so that the first 30 min is play time, then 60 min book discussion, then 30 min playtime and we emphasize to everyone to please not be later than the book time. . . and they make it on time to the "book time" nearly w/o fail . . . and if they are late they find that book discussion is already underway and they just join in. (We had started with first book, then play . . and that had been a problem.) Sooooo, when *you* take the responsibility for organizing things, then *you* can find ways to influence timeliness. . . but if you are relying on others to organize things, you just will have to take-it-or-leave-it *graciously* IMHO.

 

+ IME, parties and parkdays are always casual affairs with flexible start/end times. They may reserve a timeslot for a pavillion or other space, but that doesn't mean that people plan to arrive at the beginning and leave at the end. It is more like "We have the space from 2 to 4. . . Come when you can."

 

+ IME, classes, teams, and academic things are respected as starting and ending on time. . . With the exception being the inevitable "after party" when moms chat and kids squeeze in as much extra play time as they can get away with. (The kids in our hs circle ritually run off playing nicely and as far removed from the moms as possible at this time. . . And routinely will tell the moms "Talk for a long time!" This time is often quite enjoyable!)

 

HTH

Edited May 30, 2010 by StephanieZ

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

I do not understand nor will I be empathetic with someone whom knows what time an event starts and yet does not do the nesseccary things to ensure a prompt arrival. I know that things happen, I had a *very* sick infant/toddler, yet I did everything in my power to make certain we arrived on time. Do not start getting ready for an event 15 minutes prior to starting when you have a 15+ drive time.

 

If you are not willing to adapt to a culture with a more relaxed sense of time, then I don't think you will ever be happy with them, nor will you find your kindred spirits in this group. With comments like these, I hear you are saying that the schedule is more important to you than the people.

[elizabeth]

The local hsing group here is so irresponsible and non law abiding that they scheduled a group activity on the day of our state mandated testing. The day they had scheduled for a make up exam so many were late by an hour or so that they had to reschedule again. This violated the statutory date limit for testing to be done. Each year it is to be finished by May 1. Their nonsense and irresponsibility cost the state hundreds of dollars to pay for rescheduling proctors for the exams, space and wasted administrative time and money. This caused all of the hs students test results to be sent off to be scored over a month late. There are programs at the local uni that require recent ITBS scores for participation. Without them many will be excluded from the summer programs for failure to comply with the needed documents. Fortunately this delay did not affect us but cemented my lackluster impressions of the local hsing group. Punctuality and responsiblity are the backbone of being a successful person regardless of your vocation or profession. To me it is a moral and character issue of no small import. I can lose my license for contempt and or malpractice if my failure affects a client. Attorneys lose cases over evidence not being admissable because they did not make the requests for documents timely. There simply is not room at the top for lackluster attitude and performance. Frankly, this is reason 599999 to avoid the hsers in our area. They bear no resemblance to the ladies here ,that is for sure.

Edited May 30, 2010 by elizabeth
typo

[Night Elf]

I would think about this aspect. One of the biggest challenges as a parent of a spectrum child (and one of the most important for our kids future functioning) is to help them learn to be flexible and handle it when things don't go as planned.

 

:iagree: I didn't even catch the OP's son was an Aspie. I am talking with my ds13, also Aspie, every single day that things don't always have to be exactly the way he expects them to be. He's got to be flexible or at least show courtesy when he wants to be angry and yell. We lost a few friends because they thought my son was weird. He became selective and chose only one friend. Then that friend's mom got "busy" and my son hasn't had a friend in over a year. If my son would even try social functions, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat. But I can't even get him out of house without him shutting down completely. It's gotten worse as he's gotten older. And his quirks are so pronounced now that even I'm afraid for him to be in a group of kids. Kids his age and not always kind.

[Mom2J112903]

J is *not* an aspie, it depends on what day you test him wheather or not he would even get an HFA dx. We are just very routined people, always have been. J placed himself on a schedule as a young infant and still to this day works like clock-work.

 

I have more thoughts, but will come back later as right now it is stormy outside.

[TracyR]

You will always find others who are running late for whatever reason. If its the teacher that is running late and the class starts at 2:00 then and she doesn't get there until 2:15. Then show up at 2:15, and that's when it starts. If its the students running late I would gently suggest to her to get started anyways and not wait for those who are late. You showed up on time so she should start teaching. If the others miss out that's their problem and maybe they will learn to come on time.

 

I would of never have left the class though because others were showing up late. What happened there is you penalized your son for the actions of others. That's not right either. I would have stayed and finished, then if you had to leave early , then leave early because you were there on time. Then if the class means something to you adjust your time accordingly for the week.

 

In the future if everyone shows up around 2:15 instead of the original 2:00 then I would just come at 2:15 instead.

Honestly you can't change their habits. They are who they are, and if you change things they will become very defensive.

Its just not homeschoolers that do this though. We've had swim instructors show up late, etc. Heck we encounter it all of the time with doctors. We show up for a 2:30 appointment and don't get seen until 3 or even later! Once it took 2hrs for us to see a doctor! Try that with a toddler.

 

So though I strive to be on time sometimes we just aren't on time. I strive to teach my daughters at the same time to be patient as well because everyone we encounter isn't always going to be on time either. By leaving it showed your son impatience. Even though we ourselves aren't habitual at being late, I do strive to teach my children to be patient with other people because not everyone thinks or do the same things we do.It also teaches flexibility and being able to handle a situation when things don't always go as planned either.

Edited May 30, 2010 by TracyR

[tex-mex]

 

Your son didn't do anything wrong - why did HE have to miss out? (and likely hear how fun it was from other kids later)

 

 

 

The only thing bugging me about teaching your son the life skill of being prompt (which is important) is that you are punishing HIM by not attending the function. Instead, you should have approached the organizer of the event and reamed them (politely or whatever... ;)) for the delay. The teacher should have been there. And yes, it is rude. But I do not agree with punishing your child over it. :confused: JMO.

[hornblower]

It is funny that you think it is acceptable for the ASL teacher to be late because he has a job, but unacceptable for homeschooling moms.

 

But she was a (capitalized) Public School Teacher. Whearas we're just lower case h homeschoolers.

 

LOL, that just struck me as so funny.

 

 

I think if a bunch of homeschool friends are meeting at the park at 2pm, then it is not rude to show up at 230 or even 3pm. The park is very casual. I have 3 children, so often when I plan to leave and when I actually do leave are far apart. Last week we got to the car and I realized that dd2 had had an accident, so I had to totally change her clothes. Then, I forgot her shoes and had to turn around. We were about 20 minutes late. I never want to get there early because my dd is very difficult to handle and I don't want to waste my time waiting on others. Also, if we have had a bad start to homeschooling in the morning I am definitely going to finish our school before going somewhere. This may make me late, but school is more important to me.

 

:iagree:

 

 

fwiw though, I don't think the op wants to :chillpill: on this. I'd suggest to the OP that she has two courses of action:

 

1) suck it up, force yourself to :chillpill:, when you plan to go somewhere with these groups add extra padding to the time you set aside for the activity. Pad your schedule before & after & as others have suggested, bring your flash cards, memory work, current read aloud, nature journal, portable scrabble etc etc .

 

or

 

2) publicly go postal about this on the group's email/bulletin board, vent away as you did here. You MIGHT find a handful of other families who have not been coming b/e of similar concerns and you might be able to start your own hyper punctual group. The risk is that maybe there are no other folks with these concerns in your area & then you'll alienate everyone else......

 

There is the 3rd option of just saying politely that you are surprised about the tardiness and wonder if it's usual. Maybe it'll prod some small improvements. Hwvr, you'd have to really tone it down b/e here you came across really abrasive and hoity toity about it. I understand it if you're venting but if you want to find a way to positively influence a group to change, this isn't going to work.

 

Where I am, it's pretty common to be flexible about arrival times for park and play days, but less so for classes - though there are always a few stragglers.

 

Oh & I used to run La Leche League meetings & I specifically made it a point to tell all the moms that I didn't care if they were late - I wanted them to come, even if they could only make it for a bit. We didn't adjust our schedule for them & meetings started & ended on time b/e we had room rental to work with, but I did think it's important for moms to get that little bit of support & comraderie - & on the days when things are going terribly & maybe there have been tears and upsets already, it's even more important. I think the same thing about hs moms - maybe they've been having an awful morning, and their dc's are melting down over fractions & they NEED to get out of the house & have this break but even getting there was a huge challenge. You sound very usympathetic & just seem to say 'well, I have a dificult child & I make it on time so they should too' but I just think it doesn't always work like this.

 

There's a lovely Christian phrase about extending grace which comes into play in situations like this.

[Mom2J112903]

We never left a class early or left before the others were there. There was only once instance where the teacher was late-she has been on-time every other meeting. All the other partcipants continue to be 15 minutes late.

 

If the party had been stated come and go as you please, this would have been more acceptable. Yet is was scheduled for x to x and there was a space reserved for that time. I do not see how it is acceptable to be late for something like that.

 

J is the one that got upset when we were standing there (for the ASL class) and no one else was showing up. If someone does not show up at the scheduled time then we will go on about our day, end of story.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Mom2J112903

[Blessedfamily]

Since this was a class, I agree with you OP. If this was a public school class, I don't think attendees would be so casual about promptness. The fact that it's a home school class would not make me feel it is ok to be habitually late.

 

For a casual gathering with a large group, I would be more relaxed if at least some people came on time (especially the person in charge). If no one at all was ever on time, it would have to be a really good group for me to hang around. (In which case I would adjust my schedule 15 minutes out.)

[Veritaserum]

Our group emphasizes punctuality. Even with five kids, I do my best to be places on time. If we're late, I do my best to call ahead. :)

[Penelope]

 

When something is scheduled for a certain time, I make plans for that evening-even if it is just meeting DH at home for dinner. He is only home 30 minutes a day when he works, so something running over 15 minutes is HUGE to us.

 

 

Time with DH would take priority over anything else for my family.

 

It sounds like this group isn't for you if you are on a tight schedule. You can't make other adults conform to your schedule.

[Renee in NC]

J is *not* an aspie, it depends on what day you test him wheather or not he would even get an HFA dx. We are just very routined people, always have been. J placed himself on a schedule as a young infant and still to this day works like clock-work.

 

I have more thoughts, but will come back later as right now it is stormy outside.

 

I think that the assumption came from your post (#30) where you said he was ASD. What does that mean then? I assumed Autistic Spectrum Disorder as well.

[lovemyboys]

There *are* some really great people and kiddos in the group. This is what is so frustrating, J is already forming friendships and I *really* want this to work out.

 

Is is really that hard to be on time???

 

This is frustrating. Sounds like this is the culture of this group.

 

So you either accept that fact and make it work for you....i.e. plan on getting to the activity 10-15 min. after the official start time which would get there shortly before the actual start time.

 

Try that and see if it works. Otherwise you're just beating your head against a wall.

 

Keep in mind that the type of activity will affect timing too -- park days and other outdoor activities are often looser, while seminars, field trips (involving tour guides), museum tours and classes have a tighter time frame.

 

Agree with others here, don't punish ds by getting him all excited for an event, getting there, setting a(n arbitrary) time and then leaving. That was ok for the first time or two, but now you know this group and their "habits." For ds's sake, either adjust your expectations or find another group.

 

As to the time thing, I struggle with that too. I'll find myself doing a lesson and discussion ensues, math problems take more time to complete, grammar hits a snag, someone doesn't feel well, we have to change clothes to go out, we have to eat or pack lunch, we have to collect materials, equipment, supplies for the get-together. For the families with preschoolers, Mom has to do a lot of hands-on. For the families with older dc, there's lots of shepherding and reminding.

 

If you do like the people (adults + kids) in this group, that's huge. So many groups are not a good match. Try to be understanding with them and adjust your timing... I don't mean to go and sit around for an hour, just allow for the lag time and delayed starts.

 

Exchange cell numbers with a few key people so you can check on their timing. Yes it might seem a pain, like you're enabling people who aren't prompt schedulers. Put yourself in their shoes, with multiple kids, organizing responsibilities, whatever, and try to be patient and gracious with them.

 

Good luck. Finding a group that's a good match is really lovely. Hope it works for you and ds.

[specialmama]

I think that the assumption came from your post (#30) where you said he was ASD. What does that mean then? I assumed Autistic Spectrum Disorder as well.

:bigear:

 

 

J is a *very* routined child, so if Dinner is to be at 530p, it being 15 minutes late really knocks him for a loop. This is just part of having an ASD child, and I have learned to do as he feels is best for him. For other children 15 minutes may not be a big deal, for J it is.

 

My son has severe autism so I do understand where you are coming from... I think because it's unclear if your son has autism or not. But coming from the severe end of things, I think you'll get what I'm about to say. Sister, this is life. You don't need to teach him punctuality if routine has always been natural to him. :001_huh: You need to teach him flexibility and patience. You "learning to do as he feels what is best for him" (so you put in the above post) is not teaching him anything more than the world revolving around him and setting him up for major meltdowns down the road when *surprise* the world does not revolve around him. IMO you're far better off to use the opportunity to teach coping skills, patiently waiting, playing games to pass the time. This is not about others being late. This is about your need to control the world so little J stays happy and calm. Not gonna happen honey, I know... remember I DO *get it*, from a more severe point of reference than your own.

[Mom2J112903]

ASD encompses *all* Autism dx, including, HFA, Asperger's, and PPD-NOS. J is a Sensory Kiddo, that is for certain, wheather or not he would test continually on the ASD Spectrum is up for debate.

 

The way we live our life works for us and keeps everything running smoothly. I will just have to figure out a way to make this work as well. J is my world, therefore I do anything I can to help him. People are shocked beyond words when they find out that just 3yrs ago he recieved a moderate PPD-NOS dx because we have came *that* far with him.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

There *are* some really great people and kiddos in the group. This is what is so frustrating, J is already forming friendships and I *really* want this to work out.

 

Is is really that hard to be on time???

 

If you want it to work out then I would strongly consider adding 15 or 20 minutes to the start time IMHO. It sounds like your ds would enjoy this activity and friendships and I would not write it off based on this since there is an easy fix.

[Denisemomof4]

I've never been at a homeschool group that regularly started so late, but if I did, I would start to show up later than the scheduled time myself. The people who run those groups put SO much work and effort into them, and I'd NEVER want to complain or seem ungrateful. I think you're going to have to decide which is more important: being in a group that starts at the time they're supposed to, or not being in a group at all, or finding another. Being a newbie, though, I wouldn't expect to go in frustrated and wanting to "fix" the issues.

[Caitilin]

If someone does not show up at the scheduled time then we will go on about our day, end of story.

 

If the above is true, I don't understand what you're even asking about. You're not planning to be flexible in your lifestyle? Fine. But then don't complain about others who are not flexible in *their* lifestyles to accommodate yours.

 

Asking people who are "free spirits" to become rigidly scheduled is no better than their asking you to become a free spirit. Both are fruitless, IMO. You either accept people in gracious charity as the people they are, or you find other people who will fit into *your* mold better.

[2cents]

I don't think it has anything to do with accepting 'free spirits'. If an event is supposed to be held at a certain time then it isn't unreasonable for people (even free spirits) to respect other people's time. If an event or class was presented as a come when or if you can at any old time then that is different. Putting a time on something creates an expectation that it will begin on time.

 

I can't count the times I've been in a coop (tried more than a few) and I continue to see the stragglers. They drag into class 20 min late and expect the teacher to rehash what they missed and it is totally disruptive. That isn't a free spirit-it is just rude and inconsiderate. Just because people don't take these people to task for their behavior doesn't mean people are flexible. Many just don't want to engage in conflict. Doesn't mean it isn't annoying.

[Impish]

If you are not willing to adapt to a culture with a more relaxed sense of time, then I don't think you will ever be happy with them, nor will you find your kindred spirits in this group. With comments like these, I hear you are saying that the schedule is more important to you than the people.

:iagree:

J is *not* an aspie, it depends on what day you test him wheather or not he would even get an HFA dx. We are just very routined people, always have been. J placed himself on a schedule as a young infant and still to this day works like clock-work.

 

I have more thoughts, but will come back later as right now it is stormy outside.

I'm all confused. You seem to be changing the information you've given. I've always been told that ASD= Autism Spectrum Disorder, not sensory disorder.

 

Either roll with it, or walk away from it. Personally, I think giving a group of ppl 15 minutes for a social occasion and then leaving is just rude, and that comes from someone that, like others, is almost always early.

 

Being new to the group, I don't think you'll be well received if you demand everyone change for you.

 

Classes starting on time should be a given. Social occasions are far different, and there is a more fluid time to them. In fact, its usually considered rude to show up early, ime.

 

This just doesn't make sense. Every single family being late. I've honestly never known an entire group of people to all show up at the exact same time. Early, on time, bit late, they converge.