I am fuming.

[AbcdeDooDah]

Ds15 attends a small learning center. He and a girl there like each other. The teacher talked to me and told me she had a talk with them about not pairing off and school time is not relationship time. Great. Fine with that. 

The girl’s mom texted me las week and asked if I knew they liked each other. I said I just found out recently. She said her daughter is not allowed to date and she doesn’t want anything going on between them. Great. Fine with that. DS is not allowed to date yet, either.

I had a talk with him about the whole situation and I told him I want him to be respectful. School time is not relationship time,etc. Then two days ago, her profile popped up in Instagram as suggested and her profile picture was the two of them. He’s in the background of the picture. Her profile says, “Taken ❤️“. I sent a screenshot to my son and asked about it. He said he doesn’t know why she did that. He also said it must be some other guy and I knew better because some “other guy” would not be happy about her in a picture with someone else.  I asked if they have been communicating and he says only at school and volleyball. That she doesn’t even have a phone and uses her friend’s phone for her instagram.

Today I get another text from the her mom with a picture of a phone and “I was wondering by chance if this is an old phone that belongs to you” What a polite way to say you think my son supplied your daughter with a secret phone. 🙄🤬

I know we’re going to have to talk about this, but I don’t know what to say. I already answered her text and all I said was it doesn’t look familiar. I don’t want to have to pull my son out but I know this has to be addressed.

[Rosie_0801]

Her mother might stand to learn some boundaries.

[SKL]

My kid's friend had her phone taken away.  "Now she doesn't have a phone.  Well, she does actually ... her friend got her a burner phone but her grandma doesn't know about it."

At this age, there is a lot going on that parents don't know, and nobody's kid is likely innocent.  I hope you can get your son to talk to you honestly, because it sounds like his girlfriends' mom isn't there yet.

[Katy]

I also find the mom's behavior to be a red flag. Why is she so controlling?  Does she have reason to be bc past behavior, or is she the oldest, or is the mom way out of line? It's a 15 year old, not a 9 year old.

[Rosie_0801]

Presumably, she changed her profile pic because she's angry with her mother.

If it was me, I'd tell my kid that Mrs Girlfriend's Mum is evidently struggling with her little girl growing up and hasn't found a way to be dignified with it yet, and that he might have to tell Not-Girlfriend that he's a person who wants to be friends, not a vehicle for rebellion against her mother.

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Presumably, she changed her profile pic because she's angry with her mother.

If it was me, I'd tell my kid that Mrs Girlfriend's Mum is evidently struggling with her little girl growing up and hasn't found a way to be dignified with it yet, and that he might have to tell Not-Girlfriend that he's a person who wants to be friends, not a vehicle for rebellion against her mother.

I like this!

[bookbard]

So when you say a learning centre, do the children have disabilities? Or is it a homeschool thing? I would wonder why the other parents are so anxious. 

[Heartstrings]

I don’t think there’s anyway to forbid 15 year olds from liking each other or even calling each other GF/BF.   All that is possible is for them to learn to hide it better.   

[teachermom2834]

With a couple of 15 yos that like each other you are usually in a losing battle trying to make that not happen. You don’t need to facilitate dates or allow tons of phone time. You don’t even need to allow social media. You can set all kinds of rules but it’s hard and counterproductive (in my opinion) to come down too hard on this like it sounds like her mother is doing. You don’t need to acknowledge it. You can ignore it. But trying to completely squash it is setting up all kinds of battles when most of these things just burn out and go away soon enough. 
 

It’s pretty normal for 15 yos to like each other. Not saying you send them off on solo dates or help them buy gifts or invite them for dinner but trying to restrict a couple 15 yos from crushing on each other would just be pointless in my house and it would make me seem so unreasonable I’d fear losing credibility on the big stuff. 
 

I get it. Teen dating is a big mess and best avoided and 15 is young. But these are normal and natural feelings too that maybe need to have some space to exist. Said by a mom with a lot of experience who once found a burner phone given to her son by a girlfriend. 

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

I also find the mom's behavior to be a red flag. Why is she so controlling?  Does she have reason to be bc past behavior, or is she the oldest, or is the mom way out of line? It's a 15 year old, not a 9 year old.

Agree. She should be talking with her dd. Her texting you seems like she’s info gathering to get something to confront her own child with. 

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Presumably, she changed her profile pic because she's angry with her mother.

If it was me, I'd tell my kid that Mrs Girlfriend's Mum is evidently struggling with her little girl growing up and hasn't found a way to be dignified with it yet, and that he might have to tell Not-Girlfriend that he's a person who wants to be friends, not a vehicle for rebellion against her mother.

I might also advise my son that if this young woman is secretly posting pics of him on an IG account her parents don’t want her to have, and giving notice to other girls that he’s “taken,” that’s maybe a level of fixation he may find problematic down the road (if I read your post correctly). 
 

In the future regarding the co-op, if necessary have an in person sit down with all parties and an administrator. Otherwise there’s a whole lot of he said/she said and untruths that can complicate matters. Too easy to triangulate. 
 

FWIW sounds like these are restrictive parents with a rebellious daughter. Fifteen is certainly old enough to have friends of the opposite sex, aside from dating. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[katilac]

As a parent, you can control some actions, such as going on a date to a restaurant. Trying to control feelings always fails, but does succeed in making sure your kids don't talk to you about their feelings. 

1 hour ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

 Today I get another text from the her mom with a picture of a phone and “I was wondering by chance if this is an old phone that belongs to you” What a polite way to say you think my son supplied your daughter with a secret phone. 🙄🤬

I know we’re going to have to talk about this, but I don’t know what to say. I already answered her text and all I said was it doesn’t look familiar. I don’t want to have to pull my son out but I know this has to be addressed.

Why do people think it's difficult to get a phone and activate it? It's 2023, not 1997 😂

Why do you think it needs to be addressed any further? No, that phone doesn't look familiar, the end. 

Definitely don't pull your son out of the program, that's a very big reaction to a very small problem. That won't be solved by your son leaving, because there will presumably still be other boys there, lol 

Personally, I wouldn't do things like ask my son about the Instagram picture. He didn't post it, and it's not fair to ask him to explain it. This molehill has already turned into such a tall mountain that he might be tempted to lie about 'liking' her or knowing about posts she makes, things she says, etc. 

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Presumably, she changed her profile pic because she's angry with her mother.

If it was me, I'd tell my kid that Mrs Girlfriend's Mum is evidently struggling with her little girl growing up and hasn't found a way to be dignified with it yet, and that he might have to tell Not-Girlfriend that he's a person who wants to be friends, not a vehicle for rebellion against her mother.

That's very possibly not the case, though. It sounds to me like they definitely like each other as more than friends, regardless of what they are allowed to do or publicly say. 

10 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I might also advise my son that if this young woman is secretly posting pics of him on an IG account her parents don’t want her to have, and giving notice to other girls that he’s “taken,” that’s maybe a level of fixation he may find problematic down the road (if I read your post correctly). 
 

In the future regarding the co-op, if necessary have an in person sit down with all parties and an administrator. Otherwise there’s a whole lot of he said/she said and untruths that can complicate matters. 
 

I'm pretty sure she means I'm taken rather than he's taken. I don't know what the newer Instagram-related term might be, but in Ye Olden Days, that was called going Facebook Official. Kids that age (and other ages, lol) are often very excited to announce that they have a boyfriend or girlfriend. Somebody gotta tell that girl about finsta, that was a rookie mistake. 

Personally, I would not be having an in person meeting with all parties and an administrator over two teens liking each other. That is giving the whole thing way too much importance, and very much playing into the star-crossed lovers trope that many teens find irresistible. Plus, I'm not sure what would even be discussed, or what could be clarified? I'm not going to a meeting to explain my parental thoughts on teenage romance; if my kid breaks a rule, then you can call me. 

[Grace Hopper]

6 minutes ago, katilac said:

As a parent, you can control some actions, such as going on a date to a restaurant. Trying to control feelings always fails, but does succeed in making sure your kids don't talk to you about their feelings. 

Why do people think it's difficult to get a phone and activate it? It's 2023, not 1997 😂

Why do you think it needs to be addressed any further? No, that phone doesn't look familiar, the end. 

Definitely don't pull your son out of the program, that's a very big reaction to a very small problem. That won't be solved by your son leaving, because there will presumably still be other boys there, lol 

Personally, I wouldn't do things like ask my son about the Instagram picture. He didn't post it, and it's not fair to ask him to explain it. This molehill has already turned into such a tall mountain that he might be tempted to lie about 'liking' her or knowing about posts she makes, things she says, etc. 

That's very possibly not the case, though. It sounds to me like they definitely like each other as more than friends, regardless of what they are allowed to do or publicly say. 

I'm pretty sure she means I'm taken rather than he's taken. I don't know what the newer Instagram-related term might be, but in Ye Olden Days, that was called going Facebook Official. Kids that age (and other ages, lol) are often very excited to announce that they have a boyfriend or girlfriend. Somebody gotta tell that girl about finsta, that was a rookie mistake. 

Personally, I would not be having an in person meeting with all parties and an administrator over two teens liking each other. That is giving the whole thing way too much importance, and very much playing into the star-crossed lovers trope that many teens find irresistible. Plus, I'm not sure what would even be discussed, or what could be clarified? I'm not going to a meeting to explain my parental thoughts on teenage romance; if my kid breaks a rule, then you can call me. 

I would not initiate such a meeting unless the other mom keeps insinuating my son is the problem, iykwim. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 hour ago, bookbard said:

So when you say a learning centre, do the children have disabilities? Or is it a homeschool thing? I would wonder why the other parents are so anxious. 

It’s a homeschool thing. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

3 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

I would not initiate such a meeting unless the other mom keeps insinuating my son is the problem, iykwim. 

That’s what I mean by addressing it. I don’t like that at all.

[Melissa in Australia]

There is nothing more exciting than a forbidden relationship 

[katilac]

3 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

That’s what I mean by addressing it. I don’t like that at all.

I'm just not sure what you could say that would have any effect, beyond responding to specifics such as No, that phone does not look familiar and no, my son is not allowed to date. 

What could be his fault? That they talk at school or volleyball? I wouldn't be willing to forbid my son to talk to her; if they want to go to that extreme, they can try to enforce it with their daughter. 

The mom is mad about the Instagram picture and mad about the illicit phone. If she tries to insist that the IG pic is somehow your son's fault, there's really no good response to something so nonsensical. If she tries to insist that your son somehow got her the phone, there's also no great response to that. You can't prove a negative, and I wouldn't want to go the "my son would never" route, because frankly my kids have more than once surprised me by nevering when I thought they would never, lol. 

2 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

There is nothing more exciting than a forbidden relationship 

Preach.

At 15, I was definitely immature enough to have been both excited and delighted if there had been an all-hands-on-deck meeting about about my talk-to-each-other-at-school romance, lol. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

5 minutes ago, katilac said:

I'm just not sure what you could say that would have any effect, beyond responding to specifics such as No, that phone does not look familiar and no, my son is not allowed to date. 

What could be his fault? That they talk at school or volleyball? I wouldn't be willing to forbid my son to talk to her; if they want to go to that extreme, they can try to enforce it with their daughter. 

The mom is mad about the Instagram picture and mad about the illicit phone. If she tries to insist that the IG pic is somehow your son's fault, there's really no good response to something so nonsensical. If she tries to insist that your son somehow got her the phone, there's also no great response to that. You can't prove a negative, and I wouldn't want to go the "my son would never" route, because frankly my kids have more than once surprised me by nevering when I thought they would never, lol. 

Preach.

At 15, I was definitely immature enough to have been both excited and delighted if there had been an all-hands-on-deck meeting about about my talk-to-each-other-at-school romance, lol. 

Yes, that is why I said the phone didn't look familiar rather than say he would never. He’s my 5th. I gave up nevering a long time ago. 😂 The meeting would be to say “don’t insinuate my son is a creep.” I agree that it is totally normal for kids to like each other. I have no problem with that. I just want him to be the respectful one. I don’t think she is at all and I don’t want my son caught up in that.

Edited October 31, 2023 by AbcdeDooDah

[Janeway]

4 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Ds15 attends a small learning center. He and a girl there like each other. The teacher talked to me and told me she had a talk with them about not pairing off and school time is not relationship time. Great. Fine with that. 

The girl’s mom texted me las week and asked if I knew they liked each other. I said I just found out recently. She said her daughter is not allowed to date and she doesn’t want anything going on between them. Great. Fine with that. DS is not allowed to date yet, either.

I had a talk with him about the whole situation and I told him I want him to be respectful. School time is not relationship time,etc. Then two days ago, her profile popped up in Instagram as suggested and her profile picture was the two of them. He’s in the background of the picture. Her profile says, “Taken ❤️“. I sent a screenshot to my son and asked about it. He said he doesn’t know why she did that. He also said it must be some other guy and I knew better because some “other guy” would not be happy about her in a picture with someone else.  I asked if they have been communicating and he says only at school and volleyball. That she doesn’t even have a phone and uses her friend’s phone for her instagram.

Today I get another text from the her mom with a picture of a phone and “I was wondering by chance if this is an old phone that belongs to you” What a polite way to say you think my son supplied your daughter with a secret phone. 🙄🤬

I know we’re going to have to talk about this, but I don’t know what to say. I already answered her text and all I said was it doesn’t look familiar. I don’t want to have to pull my son out but I know this has to be addressed.

I am glad I wasn’t in this situation at 15 yrs old. It was not that long ago that people married at this age. They seem to really like each other. You don’t need to pull him out. That mom needs to deal with the fact that her daughter is growing up. Unless something questionable has happened, then I don’t think the kids have done much wrong. Does the mom allow the girl contact with anyone outside the home? 

Edited October 31, 2023 by Janeway

[Janeway]

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

. 😂The meeting would be to say “don’t insinuate my son is a creep.” I agree that it is totally normal for kids to like each other. I have no problem with that. I just want him to be the respectful one. I don’t think she is at all and I don’t want my son caught up in that.

I, too, am tired of the “girls are sweet innocent victims and boys are all predators” attitude that some parents of girls take. I actually had to deal with a situation at a dentist office where my sweet little boy read a book to a little girl and the mom kept hovering. Then she actually had the nerve to inform me that she had to watch closely because “you never know what a boy will do to a girl, boys are bullies and can be cruel.” I was floored and so taken off guard that I regret that I did not lay in to her. After they left, my little boy came over to me and asked me if I saw him reading to the little girl and asked if I was proud of him. I am still angry about that nasty gross creeper mom.

[teachermom2834]

She really needs to parent her own child and let you parent yours. 
 

I can’t stand this stuff. When I found the burner phone my son’s girlfriend had given him (because I had my kid put his up overnight and because I had access to it) I dealt with my own kid. I didn’t call the other mom. I knew her well but I had my hands full with my own house. 
 

Of course there are some things that raise to the level of getting the other parent involved but that bar is way way higher than this stuff. 

And getting other adults involved? Administrators at the homeschool thing? Oh no. Over a crush? Even if he had given her a burner phone going to the administrators at the homeschool center? Oh no.

 

[DawnM]

This seems like small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.   And pretty innocent.   My son had a friend whose mom always took his phone as punishment (and same for his siblings).   They had about 8 burner/old phones between the 3 of them.   If one went on restriction, they pulled out the burner phone that they couldn't use to call but could use for wifi communication.

Her mom is being ridiculous.   This isn't sneaking out in the middle of the night, drinking, drugs, dangerous activity.   This is a natural crush.

Ask your son about the phone, then tell him (as I did one of my sons who really liked a girl who had a wacky mother), you don't marry a girl, you marry a family.   Think about the family before you date.   

[Lady Florida.]

8 hours ago, katilac said:

As a parent, you can control some actions, such as going on a date to a restaurant. Trying to control feelings always fails, but does succeed in making sure your kids don't talk to you about their feelings. 

 

This exactly. That's what the girl's mom is doing to her daughter even if she doesn't know it yet.

I think you've done what you can. You handled it appropriately with your son. I get that you don't want him "labeled" but I don't think an in person meeting will solve anything. It sounds like this mom made up her mind already to throw the blame on your son.

[Moonhawk]

I say turn the tables!

"Did your daughter get a phone specifically just to talk to my son? He isn't allowed to date, please make sure she is not trying to initiate anything."

"Did your daughter use my son's face in her Insta? Is she still trying to make them an item?"

"Do you by chance know that your daughter is continuing to pursue my son?"

I mean, the mom's being ridiculous, this is all ridiculous, but if she thinks she has the ground to insinuate it's your son that's the issue (re phone etc), then fair game. 

[saraha]

16 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

I say turn the tables!

"Did your daughter get a phone specifically just to talk to my son? He isn't allowed to date, please make sure she is not trying to initiate anything."

"Did your daughter use my son's face in her Insta? Is she still trying to make them an item?"

"Do you by chance know that your daughter is continuing to pursue my son?"

I mean, the mom's being ridiculous, this is all ridiculous, but if she thinks she has the ground to insinuate it's your son that's the issue (re phone etc), then fair game. 

This! I am a mom of boys and girls and the assumption that the girl is always the innocent party is ridiculous. My girls were WAY more forward to members of the opposite sex at 15 than my boys ever thought about being. It had baffled dh at times but dollars to donuts when something came up I would immediately suspect my dd, not the other way around. I remember being 15 and wanting to be in looooovvvveee and lacking the maturity to go about it the right way. I was just lucky enough not to have a phone.

ETA: seriously though, if there is no chance of the two kids meeting outside of co-op, I would just ignore the other mother. The more I pushed in with my kids, the more doors closed in my face. If there is 0 chance of anything actually happening besides sitting next to each other at co-op, I would roll my eyes and go on. And I would definitely not have a meeting with anyone or pull my kid out of school. He has as much of a right to be there as anyone else and I wouldn’t let some bully mom, who’s time of being in control of her dd is running short, alter my life in any way.

Edited October 31, 2023 by saraha

[alisoncooks]

That other mom is waaaay overreacting. And (imo) if she keeps reacting like this, she’s in for a world of trouble with her daughter. This path leads to secrets and rebellion and lies. 

15 and having a school crush? Sheesh, that’s the most age-appropriate thing ever. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by alisoncooks

[gardenmom5]

I'd start going after the mom's inability to parent her daughter.  Instead of HER talking to HER daughter, she's putting all the responsibility on your son.
she's weak.

[gardenmom5]

Just now, alisoncooks said:

That other mom is waaaay overreacting. And (imo) if she keeps reacting like this, she’s in for a world of trouble with this kid. This path leads to secrets and rebellion and lies. 

15 and having a school crush? Sheesh, that’s the most age-appropriate thing ever. 

I think they're already at the secrets and lies.

[Janeway]

42 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

I say turn the tables!

"Did your daughter get a phone specifically just to talk to my son? He isn't allowed to date, please make sure she is not trying to initiate anything."

"Did your daughter use my son's face in her Insta? Is she still trying to make them an item?"

"Do you by chance know that your daughter is continuing to pursue my son?"

I mean, the mom's being ridiculous, this is all ridiculous, but if she thinks she has the ground to insinuate it's your son that's the issue (re phone etc), then fair game. 

I want to second what Moonhawk is saying. Do this next time she contacts you. Seriously, please do this. Because I am fuming over how that woman is treating your son and talking about him.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Janeway

[bolt.]

I'm not a mom to a boy, so maybe I'm a bit on the 'outside' of why this alleged insinuation is bothering you enough that you want to try and correct her thinking/perception.

To me it seems very natural for the other mom in a situation like this to (politely) seek information and for her to at least wonder about a number of plausible sources for an illicit phone. I can even see really clearly why 'possible illicit romantic interest' is a prime candidate as an answer to 'I wonder where this mysterious phone came from?' It doesn't seem prejudicial or offensive to me. A question is almost like an accusation, and it can definitely feel that way, but it's not an accusation. It doesn't have to be the kind of thing that rises to the level of an offense between you.

My advice is to respond something like, "Knowing that my son has a crush, I'm choosing to give him great advice and coaching from my perspective. Of course, being a teenager, he might or might not follow that advice! It looks, right now, like these guys are pretty determined to feel what they feel, and of course they are free to say warm and romantic things to one another without breaking any rules that I have. When I say I don't allow dating, I mean (give specifics) and if I find out from my son that he is doing those things, I will correct him. However, I also expect those limits to become flexible quite soon, since I believe that it is not inappropriate for the early stages of dating to begin around (give an age). Other than the specific limits I have for my son, I don't feel that we need to coordinate our approaches. Parenting is very individual! It looks like we might be in for an adventure though. See you next week."

My policy is 'good boundaries make good neighbours'. Keep reminding her that you are much more concerned about your kid's conduct than hers, and that you don't really need her updates or the information from her shared concerns to do a good job of raising your son well. (Then put your money where your mouth is, and focus really well on raising your son with healthy respect for the dignity, equality, and agency of women. It's not an easy lesson for them to learn within the context of modern culture.)

[MercyA]

You answered her. You don't have to say anything else. She's being kind of ridiculous. 

Just keep the communication lines open with your son, as others have said. The mom is going to be the way she wants to be but you don't have to get involved in that. 

[SKL]

10 hours ago, katilac said:

You can't prove a negative, and I wouldn't want to go the "my son would never" route, because frankly my kids have more than once surprised me by nevering when I thought they would never, lol.

This is where I'm at, LOL!

[SKL]

One possible reply if she continues down this path would be "are you requesting my help in monitoring and reporting on your daughter's activities?  I don't have a rule against school crushes at age 15 so that isn't one I'm going to enforce for other parents."

[BronzeTurtle]

25 minutes ago, bolt. said:

 

To me it seems very natural for the other mom in a situation like this to (politely) seek information and for her to at least wonder about a number of plausible sources for an illicit phone. I can even see really clearly why 'possible illicit romantic interest' is a prime candidate as an answer to 'I wonder where this mysterious phone came from?' It doesn't seem prejudicial or offensive to me. A question is almost like an accusation, and it can definitely feel that way, but it's not an accusation. It doesn't have to be the kind of thing that rises to the level of an offense between you.

this.

if I was the parent of the girl, I would ask about it.

I would also try to get everyone in a room to talk together and put everything on the table. I think open communication that is problem solving (not punitive!) is the least dangerous least stigmatizing way of dealing with the whole thing. Find a way that they can hang out in groups or with each others families and don't call it dating. but foster something that leads to open communication in a way that isn't making them feel like they have to hide. because going on the thrill of being in a forbidden relationship and hiding things from parents isn't a good habit to start at this age, or any age really.

[gardenmom5]

13 hours ago, Katy said:

I also find the mom's behavior to be a red flag. Why is she so controlling?  Does she have reason to be bc past behavior, or is she the oldest, or is the mom way out of line? It's a 15 year old, not a 9 year old.

I'd be seriously tempted to ask her if she was a rebellious 15 year old, and that's why she has so much paranoia about, and is pushing her daughter towards with her overly controlling behavior - rebellion. . . . 

13 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Presumably, she changed her profile pic because she's angry with her mother.

If it was me, I'd tell my kid that Mrs Girlfriend's Mum is evidently struggling with her little girl growing up and hasn't found a way to be dignified with it yet, and that he might have to tell Not-Girlfriend that he's a person who wants to be friends, not a vehicle for rebellion against her mother.

And to realize this is a flag for him for the future.  At 15, it's not likely to lead anywhere particularly bad (just unpleasant), but if she continues down this path - these are the girls that can cause nightmares for our sons by making false accusations to keep mommy from getting angry at them.

10 hours ago, katilac said:

I'm just not sure what you could say that would have any effect, beyond responding to specifics such as No, that phone does not look familiar and no, my son is not allowed to date. 

What could be his fault? That they talk at school or volleyball? I wouldn't be willing to forbid my son to talk to her; if they want to go to that extreme, they can try to enforce it with their daughter. 

The mom is mad about the Instagram picture and mad about the illicit phone. If she tries to insist that the IG pic is somehow your son's fault, there's really no good response to something so nonsensical. If she tries to insist that your son somehow got her the phone, there's also no great response to that. You can't prove a negative, and I wouldn't want to go the "my son would never" route, because frankly my kids have more than once surprised me by nevering when I thought they would never, lol. 

Preach.

At 15, I was definitely immature enough to have been both excited and delighted if there had been an all-hands-on-deck meeting about about my talk-to-each-other-at-school romance, lol. 

Did she ask her daughter where she got the phone???  Either she didn't ask, or the daughter lied and said it was from him.  (if the daughter lied, and claimed he gave her the phone - that WOULD be enough for me to warn my son off such a girl.)

I'd ask mom why her relationship with her daughter, is such the girl is going out of her way to push her buttons . . 
I recall a relative whose children took great joy in pushing her buttons.  One boy did 'rebellious" things with his hair.  I commented that must irritate his mother.  Oh, the satisfaction he expressed in his response . . . 

52 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'm not a mom to a boy, so maybe I'm a bit on the 'outside' of why this alleged insinuation is bothering you enough that you want to try and correct her thinking/perception.

To me it seems very natural for the other mom in a situation like this to (politely) seek information and for her to at least wonder about a number of plausible sources for an illicit phone.  

The mom isn't being polite.  She's making false and inflammatory accusations against a boy for one reason only - she can't control her daughter.  She's the kind of mother I would warn my sons away from her daughters, as she's nothing but trouble.

[Brittany1116]

I am not seeing what is so scandalous about the kids or the other mother. I don't think they are showing any behavior atypical of 15 year olds with crushes, and I don't think mom overstepped. She communicated her stance, and asked a follow-up question when the need arose. She could have just shown up at the next class day and chewed you out for giving her child a phone to continue an illicit love affiar without proof. It doesn't sound like either kid is being totally honest, and it doesn't sound like either parent really trusts what their kid is teling them. 

[gardenmom5]

Just now, Brittany1116 said:

I am not seeing what is so scandalous about the kids or the other mother. I don't think they are showing any behavior atypical of 15 year olds with crushes, and I don't think mom overstepped. She communicated her stance, and asked a follow-up question when the need arose. She could have just shown up at the next class day and chewed you out for giving her child a phone to continue an illicit love affiar without proof. It doesn't sound like either kid is being totally honest, and it doesn't sound like either parent really trusts what their kid is teling them. 

It's not the kids who are the problem (unless the girl lied about where she got the phone)
but that mom is trouble.

[kbutton]

I’m mixed on this. I’m a Mom of boys (with some exceptionalities that make maturity a mixed bag) whose son was aggressively pursued by someone who literally flew every red flag from what it looks like when someone with a borderline personality disorder dates.

At first I read this as the other mom saying school time is not relationship time on top of the mom texting, and that set me off. Re-reading this, it sounds more sane. 

With it being a teacher saying this, three possibilities come to mind…it’s a school-wide rule, the teacher has been asked to do the mom’s enforcing, or the kids are being overtly distracting with their young love.

If it’s a school/co-op wide rule and this is a high stakes “be like us or leave” situation, I would be asking my son some questions to be sure he won’t get kicked out if I want to be sure he remained in that setting.

I think open communication is fine if the other mom isn’t crazy. But I agree that you can’t control the daughter on behalf of the mom. My kids seem to be open with me, and I can just ask questions about whether they like someone, etc., but that might be because they aren’t entirely neurotypical, lol!

I think the remainder of what sets me off is that the mom is on fishing expedition, and she could just say so. She is holding all the information and asking questions without really stating her intent overtly, and that makes it seem more likely to go sideways. There is no nice way to insinuate that your son supplied a phone, but she can acknowledge that she’s worried about her daughter and wants more information so that she can decide how to handle it. 

[freesia]

Ok, the first thing I want to know is how old is the girl? Is she also 15? Or even 14?  The only time I got this crazy is when a 16 year old was developing a romantic relationship with my 12/13 year old. I’m sorry if so missed they were the same age. I was way more involved than so would have been if they were of an age. And, yes, he was encouraging her to work around the appropriate limits we had set. She was an active part as well, but it didn’t help that his mother( a previous close friend) was reactive to my requests for help. I could go on but I don’t want to imply your son is at all like the boy I’m talking about—I just want to be clear that we are talking about peers. 
 

Assuming they are peers, yes in my experience past unhealthy influences on the homeschooling culture has led to an over involvement in teen relationships. I don’t have an answer. Try not to let her anxiety tie you in knots. It sounds like you are handling it well—clearly and without over reacting. Also maybe she wasn’t implying about the phone just trying to gather information. 

[bolt.]

31 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

The mom isn't being polite.  She's making false and inflammatory accusations against a boy for one reason only - she can't control her daughter.  She's the kind of mother I would warn my sons away from her daughters, as she's nothing but trouble.

I must have missed something. I thought the only 'insinuation'-type communication was this:

14 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Today I get another text from the her mom with a picture of a phone and “I was wondering by chance if this is an old phone that belongs to you”

Granted, there isn't a terribly polite way to ask whether it's possible that 'your' child could be the source of 'my' child's illicit phone. Obviously any form of asking that question (regardless of wording, tact, or manners) inherently suggests that the other parent believes that it to be *possible* that 'your' son could do such a thing. But asking openly for another parent to check in on the possibility of bad conduct isn't actually an inflammatory accusation.

She didn't say, "I found the phone your son gave to my daughter. What are you going to do about it?" -- that's an inflammatory accusation. The wording that she did choose has about as much gentleness and softening as is possible to shove into one sentence. Other than asking as politely as she possibly could, the only other option would be not to ask at all. Which might have been the better choice, but I don't blame her too much for reaching out to try to partner with the other parent.

I really see a parent who's got a lot invested in the 'control' elements of parenting a teen -- and she's going down fighting, and she's likely to do a bit of damage before she figures things out... but I don't think she's "nothing but trouble". She's just out of her depth, trying very hard to do her very best, with some fairly inflexible ideas about what 'best' is. I feel real empathy for people in that kind of position. I do want to take their hand and walk them towards better paths... but I totally understand how committed, well-meaning parents get into this kind of pickle in the first place. (Especially in the homeschool world.)

Edited October 31, 2023 by bolt.

[teachermom2834]

I can get the mom asking about the phone because I would want to know that it came from the harmless boy at co-op and not from some grown man my dd was communicating with or something like that. She can’t have the illicit phone regardless and I’m not seeking for the boy to be disciplined or blamed or anything but in defense of the mom I don’t blame her for wanting to find the source if her dd isn’t telling or she doesn’t believe her. 

So while I have been hard on the other mom in this thread I’d give her a break on that. But if I was that mom I probably would have been more clear about just trying to identify the source to keep my child safe and know what I was dealing with, not because I was seeking to be involved with her parenting of her son at all.

Edited October 31, 2023 by teachermom2834

[Katy]

I like what Dawn said about marrying the family…. I would also mention to DS that he can’t rescue someone from a family dynamic like that. In a family with weird control dynamics there will probably always be weird control  dynamics. Breaking it will take a lot of will, therapy, and decades of emotionally exhausting work. In fact we’ve had this conversation with one of our kids. DH printed out a copy of the wheel of power & control and we had a whole conversation about boundaries and control and abusive relationships. Kid went off into reading about personality disorders and is now considering psychology, social work, or therapy as a career. 

[BronzeTurtle]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

The mom isn't being polite.  She's making false and inflammatory accusations against a boy for one reason only - she can't control her daughter.  

Where do people see this in what the op wrote? Asking if your kid got a phone from another kid when there is a known association and secretive behavior going on isn't an accusation much less inflammatory. It is okay to navigate these things without taking them personally.

[BronzeTurtle]

WHy do people think that being invested in their 15yo daughter's online activities as controlling? Knowing what teens are doing online and being concerned....maybe overly, maybe not...does not seem controlling or scary or anything but being a normal parent.

if I found out a kid of mine had a secret IG I'd be concerned and probably try to get to the bottom of it. teens put silly stupid stuff on the internet all the time and talk to people they shouldn't and it is FOREVER and often a source of bullying or angst later on. teens can fully comprehend this but many don't.

[Katy]

43 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

WHy do people think that being invested in their 15yo daughter's online activities as controlling? Knowing what teens are doing online and being concerned....maybe overly, maybe not...does not seem controlling or scary or anything but being a normal parent.

if I found out a kid of mine had a secret IG I'd be concerned and probably try to get to the bottom of it. teens put silly stupid stuff on the internet all the time and talk to people they shouldn't and it is FOREVER and often a source of bullying or angst later on. teens can fully comprehend this but many don't.

Because it’s perfectly normal for a 15 year old to have social interactions and relationships and friendships that have nothing to do with the parents. Because trying to control every aspect of their interactions with people you don’t know is unhealthy and crippling. Because we aren’t the Duggars and we don’t raise kids to be live at home daughters into their 30’s. Because we we preparing them to launch and be socially astute adults who can handle their own affairs in a few short years. 

I know parents who allow their kids all kinds of social norms (like dating in high school) but still ban social media. But that isn’t an effort to prevent their kids from growing up, it’s just knowledge of how bad social media is for teen brains. That’s not at all the same as preventing a post-pubescent teen from having a crush or a non-dating boyfriend. 

[Frances]

1 hour ago, BronzeTurtle said:

WHy do people think that being invested in their 15yo daughter's online activities as controlling? Knowing what teens are doing online and being concerned....maybe overly, maybe not...does not seem controlling or scary or anything but being a normal parent.

if I found out a kid of mine had a secret IG I'd be concerned and probably try to get to the bottom of it. teens put silly stupid stuff on the internet all the time and talk to people they shouldn't and it is FOREVER and often a source of bullying or angst later on. teens can fully comprehend this but many don't.

But why not get the info from her own daughter about the source of the burner phone and the instagram account? The other mom shouldn’t in anyway be implying that the boy is the source of the problems until she has all the facts from her daughter. If she wants to control someone, she needs to first focus on her own child. And if she really wants to know what’s going on, she should be doing her own investigative work into her daughter’s social media activity, not implying the blame lies elsewhere. Regardless if where the burner phone came from, her daughter is the one who accepted it and used it.

And what does it mean when the other mom says she doesn’t want anything going on between them? Saying they can’t date is one thing, saying they can’t have feelings for each other or any interaction is a totally different thing, over the top, and just asking for trouble.

[BronzeTurtle]

51 minutes ago, Katy said:

Because it’s perfectly normal for a 15 year old to have social interactions and relationships and friendships that have nothing to do with the parents. Because trying to control every aspect of their interactions with people you don’t know is unhealthy and crippling. Because we aren’t the Duggars and we don’t raise kids to be live at home daughters into their 30’s. Because we we preparing them to launch and be socially astute adults who can handle their own affairs in a few short years. 

I know parents who allow their kids all kinds of social norms (like dating in high school) but still ban social media. But that isn’t an effort to prevent their kids from growing up, it’s just knowledge of how bad social media is for teen brains. That’s not at all the same as preventing a post-pubescent teen from having a crush or a non-dating boyfriend. 

this is dumb. Even people who aren't the duggars can be wary of secret life of teens on the internet. A secret phone and sm account is miles from "relationships that have nothing to do with the parents". a grown adult spouse can have relationships outside of the marriage. having a secret phone would be a red flag. And while kids aren't spouses so the metaphor isn't perfect, having a secret online life isn't something one needs to "prepare to launch", lol.

I would say parents who think they can prevent crushes are not thinking clearly. Having boundaries for kids dating doesn't seem like the same thing. I don't think parents who are concerned about a secret phone are in any way being too protective or too sheltering. 

It is precisely because they are about to launch that you'd want to impress upon them the absolute idiocy of having secret phones to hide romance.

We also don't know if this girl is mature enough or mentally healthy enough for any of this. Her parents would be in the best position to know that. "socially astute" adults don't have secret online lives that they hide from, say, other adults they might be in a close relationship with. niipping that in the bud as a teen with parents who care, seems smart.

A mark of maturity is not doing that kind of thing. clearly the girl isn't that mature, probably not mature enough for whatever romance ensues with another kid with a not fully developed brain.

And, hey, that duggar guy had a secret online life that turned out super bad for him and whomever he had the misfortune of preying upon. so perhaps it would be a wise course of action to discourage that sort of thing in teen girls. 

[Bambam]

I'd cut the other mom some slack but I think you've said enough, and I'd let it go. 
I know there are times I've probably responded/acted in a reactive way vs. a thought-it-through-and-decided-to-do-nothing way. I hope that folks would realize that sometimes people act over-the-top, but unless they have a history of it, I'd overlook it. I'd be more cautious around lady/daughter, but that's it. 
Crushes happen. Can't control them. Sometimes I think parents get surprised because they aren't thinking their kids are old enough, are too mature/smart for this sort of thing/whatever, and so their reactions aren't always appropriate until they have a chance to sit down and think about it. Who knows what other factors/history might be involved in another's thinking? 

I too monitored my kid's online messages/texts randomly at this age. And we did set limits on when you could use phone/laptop. And I would have been upset if my kids obtained another device, but I would have dealt with my kid and not the one providing it. If I knew who provided it, and I might well just have let the other parent know - mostly because I would want to know if my kid did this sort of thing. But just an FYI, not expecting other parent to do/respond in any way because I know others have different standards.  

[Brittany1116]

It's absolutely wild to me that people want to call the mom controlling, inappropriate, inflammatory, problematic, a Duggar etc because she found a secret phone amidst the revelation that her kid was/is in a secret relationship of some sort and figured the two things may be related. I think her text about the phone was probably fretted over and rewritten to make it as benign as possible. The most likely explanation is often the explanation. 

[BronzeTurtle]

22 minutes ago, Frances said:

But why not get the info from her own daughter about the source of the burner phone and the instagram account? The other mom shouldn’t in anyway be implying that the boy is the source of the problems until she has all the facts from her daughter. If she wants to control someone, she needs to first focus on her own child. And if she really wants to know what’s going on, she should be doing her own investigative work into her daughter’s social media activity, not implying the blame lies elsewhere. Regardless if where the burner phone came from, her daughter is the one who accepted it and used it.

And what does it mean when the other mom says she doesn’t want anything going on between them? Saying they can’t date is one thing, saying they can’t have feelings for each other or any interaction is a totally different thing, over the top, and just asking for trouble.

 

like I said, trying to prevent feelings is one thing and it's sort of silly on a parent's part. but if they know the girl, say, would be immature to develop a crush and have secret relationship with a dude she has to see in homeschool group all the time, perhaps they are trying to help her and protect her from drama and heartache that she's not able to handle.

it's just silly to me to say the parents should investigate her social media but then say if they find a boyfriend they shouldn't ask the other mom about any of it. If I was on the other end as the boy's mom, i'd want to know about any of this going on that I was ignorant of. 

again, I think the solution is all parents and teens getting together over coffee and hashing it out in a way that is not punitive and promotes openness, honesty, transparency and friendliness between all parties and sets acceptable parameters for having the kind of hangouts that would be appropriate for immature 15yo brains who think secrecy is coooool.

[BronzeTurtle]

when I was growing up there was no real possibility for the emotional entanglement that can happen online...where you think you're so in love with a person because you communicate with them often and sweetly through dm's.

sure, kids had secret flings, but it was in person meetups and phone calls on a family line.

entanglements could be messy, for SURE even without the internet. It wasn't like some 'good ole days'. BUT

a secret online life in a teen girl or boy can come with LOADS of things that are inappropriate, can get people in legal trouble as teens, can be easily sent on to third parties for bullying/shaming, pictures and video sharing, or talking to catfishing people, and so much more. And as a bonus it lasts forever.

It's not a dumb duggar thing to worry about because you aren't raising your daughter to be home in her 30s. :::eyeroll::