I am fuming.

[Ting Tang]

I’m sorry. Your son is not a creep, and it seems her family might make this awkward for him. Hopefully nothing much else becomes of it, like many relationships that begin and end with 15 year olds. I’m not opposed to 15 year olds dating to an extent, but this situation isn’t ideal, given her family. 

[goldberry]

On 10/31/2023 at 6:08 PM, bolt. said:

It's very strange for four parents to make two teens' dating lives into a joint project of the supervising adults.

 

DH and I got sucked into something like that with another set of parents.  I see it in conservative circles where there are strict limits on teens dating, because the parents often want a confirmation that the other side is on the same page, so to speak. It seems harmless enough, but it set a tone that was NOT healthy in any way and did NOT help the situation at all.   

[ktgrok]

On 10/31/2023 at 4:19 PM, BronzeTurtle said:

 

If I was on the other end as the boy's mom, i'd want to know about any of this going on that I was ignorant of. 

 

See, I don't think it is my right to know who my child is crushing on. I'd like to know, but they get SOME privacy, which includes their own romantic feelings towards people. That's not my right to know, and it isn't something others should be calling me about. 

On 10/31/2023 at 5:48 PM, Frances said:

I think calling it a “secret relationship” is going a bit far. When you were in high school and liked a boy but weren’t going on dates, only talking to them at shared events, did your parents always know? It just seems like a normal teenage thing. 

This. The parents can set boundaries around their OWN child's BEHAVIOR. They cannot limit the feelings of anyone, and certainly can't and shouldn't be trying to establish boundaries around someone else's kid. They can limit her phone usage (and check better) and insist she return the burner phone. But that's about it. 

[BronzeTurtle]

3 hours ago, ktgrok said:

See, I don't think it is my right to know who my child is crushing on. I'd like to know, but they get SOME privacy, which includes their own romantic feelings towards people. That's not my right to know, and it isn't something others should be calling me about. 

You took this completely out of context. I stated multiple times in the thread that I'm not interested in policing what kids think and that parents who try to do that are silly. I think I even used the exact word silly. 

I never once said anything about knowing who has a crush on who. this whole scenario was way beyond any of that. I keep reading your reply to one line of my post and trying to figure out where you thought I said I had a right to know who has a crush on who. Or where you thought I said I had a right to know a kid's thoughts or feelings. If you could quote that part I could clarify or delete it because if I said that, I misspoke entirely.

I was speaking of a situation where my child's peer was using a photo of them and claiming them as their boyfriend without my child knowing. I was talking about a situation where other people are involved via a social media account. where parents are getting offended. I was speaking in terms of knowing about that sort of happening so I can guide my child in how to act, not how to think.

we are talking about teens. they have not fully developed brains. they are minors. stuff on a phone can turn illegal really fast in a really bad way. kids do vicious and hurtful things. kids do things they think are fun and spicy and it turns illegal really fast ("does your son have a photo of my daughter on his phone?" "did your kid bully mine on social media? I have the DMs"). Nipping that in the bud early, via worrying about my own kid absolutely is in the purview of parenting if one can know what's going on. if someone else decides their kid can have unfettered unmonitored access to social media at 15, then it's really none of my business and I'm not going to parent someone else's kid.

 

[fraidycat]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:05 PM, BronzeTurtle said:

this is dumb. Even people who aren't the duggars can be wary of secret life of teens on the internet. A secret phone and sm account is miles from "relationships that have nothing to do with the parents". a grown adult spouse can have relationships outside of the marriage. having a secret phone would be a red flag. And while kids aren't spouses so the metaphor isn't perfect, having a secret online life isn't something one needs to "prepare to launch", lol.

I would say parents who think they can prevent crushes are not thinking clearly. Having boundaries for kids dating doesn't seem like the same thing. I don't think parents who are concerned about a secret phone are in any way being too protective or too sheltering. 

It is precisely because they are about to launch that you'd want to impress upon them the absolute idiocy of having secret phones to hide romance.

We also don't know if this girl is mature enough or mentally healthy enough for any of this. Her parents would be in the best position to know that. "socially astute" adults don't have secret online lives that they hide from, say, other adults they might be in a close relationship with. niipping that in the bud as a teen with parents who care, seems smart.

A mark of maturity is not doing that kind of thing. clearly the girl isn't that mature, probably not mature enough for whatever romance ensues with another kid with a not fully developed brain.

And, hey, that duggar guy had a secret online life that turned out super bad for him and whomever he had the misfortune of preying upon. so perhaps it would be a wise course of action to discourage that sort of thing in teen girls. 

IME, if I don't give a kid a reason to have a SECRET online life, they just have an online life. One where they interact with the world using the technology available to them. Coach them about right and wrong, smart and stupid, trust but verify and be there for them to ask questions along the way. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by fraidycat

[BronzeTurtle]

8 hours ago, fraidycat said:

IME, if I don't give a kid a reason to have a SECRET online life, they just have an online life. One where they interact with the world using the technology available to them. Coach them about right and wrong, smart and stupid, trust but verify and be there for them to ask questions along the way. 

yes I'm sure you're right. It is only those other parents not doing it right who have kids who do secret stuff that might be harmful without telling their parents. although I guess you're right that if you don't call it secret then it's just stuff you don't know about 🤷‍♀️

[ktgrok]

9 hours ago, BronzeTurtle said:

You took this completely out of context. I stated multiple times in the thread that I'm not interested in policing what kids think and that parents who try to do that are silly. I think I even used the exact word silly. 

I never once said anything about knowing who has a crush on who. this whole scenario was way beyond any of that. I keep reading your reply to one line of my post and trying to figure out where you thought I said I had a right to know who has a crush on who. Or where you thought I said I had a right to know a kid's thoughts or feelings. If you could quote that part I could clarify or delete it because if I said that, I misspoke entirely.

I was speaking of a situation where my child's peer was using a photo of them and claiming them as their boyfriend without my child knowing. I was talking about a situation where other people are involved via a social media account. where parents are getting offended. I was speaking in terms of knowing about that sort of happening so I can guide my child in how to act, not how to think.

we are talking about teens. they have not fully developed brains. they are minors. stuff on a phone can turn illegal really fast in a really bad way. kids do vicious and hurtful things. kids do things they think are fun and spicy and it turns illegal really fast ("does your son have a photo of my daughter on his phone?" "did your kid bully mine on social media? I have the DMs"). Nipping that in the bud early, via worrying about my own kid absolutely is in the purview of parenting if one can know what's going on. if someone else decides their kid can have unfettered unmonitored access to social media at 15, then it's really none of my business and I'm not going to parent someone else's kid.

 

Again, she can talk to HER kid about appropriate online communication, the danger of sending photos, etc. But unless I missed some posts (which, to be fair, I might have) there were no racy photos or sexting, just an image of the two kids together as a profile photo. Truly, that is NOT something I'd contact another parent about. If I didn't want MY kid saying they are in a relationship, I would deal with my kid. The boy didn't post the picture, so how is it his fault or anything even in his power to control, let alone something the other parents need to address?

Now, if this involved anything that could be illegal or dangerous, that's different. But contacting other parents to say, "MY kid posted a totally appropriate photo with YOUR kid but I don't like it" is silly. As for where the burner phone came from, that's up to her to deal with with her own kid. 

[bolt.]

10 hours ago, BronzeTurtle said:

I was speaking of a situation where my child's peer was using a photo of them and claiming them as their boyfriend without my child knowing. I was talking about a situation where other people are involved via a social media account. where parents are getting offended.

To me, this situation very much fits the definition of, "None of my business unless my kid invites my input." And since, in the scenario you present, 'my kid' doesn't even know the photo or the claim happened, I can't see how 'my kid' would invite 'my input'.

To me this is just, "Some kid that I don't know has gotten ahold of a photo that featured my kid, and is using it for their own purposes on their own social media." -- a thing that might or might not be happening half a dozen times a day. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

It also doesn't bother me in the slightest if other children offend their own parents with their own social media behaviour (no matter who is in the pictures they are using to cause such offense).

[BronzeTurtle]

30 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Again, she can talk to HER kid about appropriate online communication, the danger of sending photos, etc. But unless I missed some posts (which, to be fair, I might have) there were no racy photos or sexting, just an image of the two kids together as a profile photo. Truly, that is NOT something I'd contact another parent about. If I didn't want MY kid saying they are in a relationship, I would deal with my kid. The boy didn't post the picture, so how is it his fault or anything even in his power to control, let alone something the other parents need to address?

Now, if this involved anything that could be illegal or dangerous, that's different. But contacting other parents to say, "MY kid posted a totally appropriate photo with YOUR kid but I don't like it" is silly. As for where the burner phone came from, that's up to her to deal with with her own kid. 

ok, since we're avoiding the whole part where you said I was policing kids' thoughts and crushes, I'll respond to these goal posts over here.

It is not about the posting of a totally appropriate photo.

I'm talking about a situation where another kid is posting stuff about my own without the kid's  knowledge. in that situation, however i got a heads up it was happening, i would like to know. Am I so naive to think as a parent of a teen I would always find out? No. I was, again, responding to the idea floated that a girl was posting stuff about my own kid without their knowledge.

I'm talking about how to deal with that with my own kid and how to advise him/her in that specific situation, not policing anyone else's children.

I get that I have the unpopular take here of clearing the air with the other family and putting everything out on table between parents and kids. I am fine with being the outlier there that open communication between all parties would be advisable. i understand why others wouldn't want to step into that family dynamic. but it would be super helpful if you would respond to what I've actually said instead of what you think I'm saying, or trying to attribute some kind of weird motives behind what I'm saying. I skim through threads all the time so i get missing stuff. but you're replying to stuff I didn't say or so far out of context it doesn't reflect the actual discussion.

to the bolded, as far as it goes, lol at thinking there's some clear bright line about how you know this is happening. "I'm a cool mom that gives my kids privacy so they'd never do anything dumb like send a racy picture or say stupid stuff in DMs"

[bolt.]

9 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

"I'm a cool mom that gives my kids privacy so they'd never do anything dumb like send a racy picture or say stupid stuff in DMs"

Well, I'm a "cool mom" who absolutely knows that most kids do dumb things like sending racy pictures or saying stupid stuff in DMs, and my kids are very likely doing things of that nature (or other things that are equally stupid but more suited to their personality) too.

I have enough work coaching my own kids regarding that dynamic.

The fact that other people's kids are doing similar things (even if it involves a benign shot of my kid) strikes me as perfectly normal and not work a scrap of my attention *** until or unless *** my child lets me know about the situation and invites my input.

[BronzeTurtle]

15 minutes ago, bolt. said:

To me, this situation very much fits the definition of, "None of my business unless my kid invites my input." And since, in the scenario you present, 'my kid' doesn't even know the photo or the claim happened, I can't see how 'my kid' would invite 'my input'.

To me this is just, "Some kid that I don't know has gotten ahold of a photo that featured my kid, and is using it for their own purposes on their own social media." -- a thing that might or might not be happening half a dozen times a day. It doesn't bother me in the slightest.

It also doesn't bother me in the slightest if other children offend their own parents with their own social media behaviour (no matter who is in the pictures they are using to cause such offense).

then we are different parents. and that's fine. but a girl using a photo of a boy claiming herself as "taken" by him without him knowing is not a healthy dynamic. it would scare me if someone did it to me as an adult. I would have to take some time to figure out how to deal with that in a reasonable way.

the scenario I responded to is not a thing that happens "half a dozen times a day" to any kids I know/have known. but in any case, I do think people should be able to know who is posting their picture online with a direct personal claim of attachment to it.

take the internet out of it. my kids, as teens, would probably not have known how to handle, say, a girl telling everyone they were bf/gf without his knowledge although it wouldn't have been as public or as permanent as something posted on the internet in those days. as a parent do I want to know every bit of rumor spreading and random gossip? no, that's unrealistic and futile. if it becomes a situation where a bunch of people know about it and my kid is having to deal with it at school or some kind of group event and another parent or parents knew it was happening? yeah, i'd not want to be the one without a clue in the name of "my kid's life is not my business".

i feel like I'm taking crazy pills here because it seems like people don't realize how hurtful/bullying/entangling/mean/crazy/angsty kids can be with each other on the internet. and how incapable they are as teens to choose the high road or the healthy path of dealing with it. and how quickly it can go from okay to very not okay. and how miserable and terrible it can make teens feel, and how it might be something you'd want them to get a handle on before it gets to that point where someone doesn't want to attend a gathering because those conversations are happening where they can't be seen. or how girls can send a couple racy pictures and ruin a kid's life, or the guy can ruin hers. And in a vacuum, at a stage where it's just crushes and puppy love, it isn't a big deal. it isn't anything a parent couldn't shrug off or think "well, they need their privacy." but at 15 you're exactly at the stage where they have the control over their own life and yet aren't mature enough to be totally left to their own devices amongst themselves. or maybe you want to and that's your prerogative as a parent but it doesn't mean everyone has to do it the same as you or they have risen to the level of duggardom if they have set more boundaries for their kids online or personally.

I don't like to share a lot about my personal circumstances/life on this board but it's not like this is a rodeo I'm unfamiliar with. i don't know if I've seen too much or others have seen too little but dang it's not like social media bullying and angst is rare among teens these days. and they aren't all right for it either. 

[BronzeTurtle]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

Well, I'm a "cool mom" who absolutely knows that most kids do dumb things like sending racy pictures or saying stupid stuff in DMs, and my kids are very likely doing things of that nature (or other things that are equally stupid but more suited to their personality) too.

I have enough work coaching my own kids regarding that dynamic.

The fact that other people's kids are doing similar things (even if it involves a benign shot of my kid) strikes me as perfectly normal and not work a scrap of my attention *** until or unless *** my child lets me know about the situation and invites my input.

ETA: "coaching my own kids regarding that dynamic" is exactly what I'm talking about doing. but the dynamic by its very nature involves other people doing stuff with/to/at my own kids. it has nothing to do with me policing those kids but knowing what is going on with my own kids in the context of the dynamic you're speaking about. I can't make other people's kids stop doing stuff. but my own kids need to know how to handle crazy on the internet. and they have to be taught that it's crazy, to see that it's not normal or healthy in a good relationship and where it might lead.

to use this as an example only since it was in your post, unrelated to the op:

Depending on the racy picture, that is something that can follow a girl around for a long time and be used to shame her or show up in terrible places.

Depending on the racy picture, it's actually illegal for someone to be in possession of it on their device if the person in the photo is underage, even if the recipient is also underage.

so what other kids would do with their dms or racy pictures or other similar stuff absolutely affects the other end of the account as well.

a dumb text conversation can be screenshotted and used for bullying later, or used to claim bullying later when the people involved thought we were all just joking around.

and none of this is happening until it is.

I'm sure your kid is more emotionally mature than most teens and is able to handle all of this better so you don't have to provide guidance unless they ask. some kids are not there yet, even at 15yo. and sometimes the mature kids get into it with someone immature who doesn't know that the racy picture they sent can get everyone in trouble, or will follow them for life. so you, as a parent don't have to care about who is at the other end of their social media. Some parents do have to care, at least a little.

Edited November 3, 2023 by BronzeTurtle

[Ting Tang]

Social media sure changes so many things.  When I was about the age, we did have AOL instant messenger.  I did go on dates, the kind where my parents dropped me off and picked me up or I walked if he lived in the neighborhood.  I even kissed boys, lol.  It never went beyond that.

On the flipside, I have had a grown man grandpa record and post a whole video of my daughter's solo performance without my permission.  He did that to every little girl.  Fortunately, he was asked to remove it and did.  We just don't have much privacy these days.  😞

[rebcoola]

I thought he is just in the background of the picture not like a couple picture and the girls changed her Relationship status its not even 100% this girl os talking about Ops son. Its just an assumption based on their crushes.  100% something I would not get involved with as a parent except stating my boundaries of dating and talking through red flags in possible relationships cause this girl/family is giant red flag to me.

[fraidycat]

1 hour ago, BronzeTurtle said:

then we are different parents. and that's fine. but a girl using a photo of a boy claiming herself as "taken" by him without him knowing is not a healthy dynamic. it would scare me if someone did it to me as an adult. I would have to take some time to figure out how to deal with that in a reasonable way.

the scenario I responded to is not a thing that happens "half a dozen times a day" to any kids I know/have known. but in any case, I do think people should be able to know who is posting their picture online with a direct personal claim of attachment to it.

take the internet out of it. my kids, as teens, would probably not have known how to handle, say, a girl telling everyone they were bf/gf without his knowledge although it wouldn't have been as public or as permanent as something posted on the internet in those days. as a parent do I want to know every bit of rumor spreading and random gossip? no, that's unrealistic and futile. if it becomes a situation where a bunch of people know about it and my kid is having to deal with it at school or some kind of group event and another parent or parents knew it was happening? yeah, i'd not want to be the one without a clue in the name of "my kid's life is not my business".

i feel like I'm taking crazy pills here because it seems like people don't realize how hurtful/bullying/entangling/mean/crazy/angsty kids can be with each other on the internet. and how incapable they are as teens to choose the high road or the healthy path of dealing with it. and how quickly it can go from okay to very not okay. and how miserable and terrible it can make teens feel, and how it might be something you'd want them to get a handle on before it gets to that point where someone doesn't want to attend a gathering because those conversations are happening where they can't be seen. or how girls can send a couple racy pictures and ruin a kid's life, or the guy can ruin hers. And in a vacuum, at a stage where it's just crushes and puppy love, it isn't a big deal. it isn't anything a parent couldn't shrug off or think "well, they need their privacy." but at 15 you're exactly at the stage where they have the control over their own life and yet aren't mature enough to be totally left to their own devices amongst themselves. or maybe you want to and that's your prerogative as a parent but it doesn't mean everyone has to do it the same as you or they have risen to the level of duggardom if they have set more boundaries for their kids online or personally.

I don't like to share a lot about my personal circumstances/life on this board but it's not like this is a rodeo I'm unfamiliar with. i don't know if I've seen too much or others have seen too little but dang it's not like social media bullying and angst is rare among teens these days. and they aren't all right for it either. 

Wow, that's a whole lot of nothing to do with THIS situation.

The two kids in question have a MUTUAL crush.

One of those kids posted a photo to social media that the other did not know about. Non-posting kid is most likely in the range from neutral to ecstatic about said photo, because MUTUAL attraction. Not stalking or bullying. 15 year old puppy love. 

I'm beginning to think you are the mother of the girl in the OP trying to defend insinuating that OPs son is deceitful. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

I don’t know that the mon saw the instagram profile or not. Now she’s advertising her Snap on it. 

She has not been at school since I got the text about the phone.

[Scarlett]

4 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don’t know that the mon saw the instagram profile or not. Now she’s advertising her Snap on it. 

She has not been at school since I got the text about the phone.

Well that is weird 

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, BronzeTurtle said:

the scenario I responded to is not a thing that happens "half a dozen times a day" to any kids I know/have known. but in any case, I do think people should be able to know who is posting their picture online with a direct personal claim of attachment to it.

What I mean is that if the scenario is (allegedly) that 'my kid' doesn't know about 'her' use of his image, then that activity is in the realm of "things he doesn't know about". As such, it belongs with the other unknown things that may or may not be happening to his image on the internet. Maybe 'his' image is super popular! Maybe it's being used as a cover photo for a textbook in India! Maybe it's being turned into a meme. Maybe someone is using it to scam their way into a college or into a country.

Nobody knows *in the slightest* what other people are using their internet images for.

As such, it's not usually something that bothers people *** until *** they find out about it.

2 hours ago, BronzeTurtle said:

it seems like people don't realize how hurtful/bullying/entangling/mean/crazy/angsty kids can be with each other on the internet. and how incapable they are as teens to choose the high road or the healthy path of dealing with it. and how quickly it can go from okay to very not okay. and how miserable and terrible it can make teens feel, and how it might be something you'd want them to get a handle on before it gets to that point where someone doesn't want to attend a gathering because those conversations are happening where they can't be seen.

Of course we know that. But nothing could be done on those terms *** until *** the teen found out how his image was being used. After he found out, certainly, there would be some worthwhile talking points between him and his parents.

You keep switching between a scenario where the kid has no idea his image is being used this way (so it's not bothering him and he needs no particular help) and a situation where he knows and is hurting because of the way he is being treated online (so he needs parental comfort and guidance). I don't see how those are the same thing to you.

If someone spreads rumors about a kid (with or without a photo, with or without a phone) usually either the kid feels capable of coping without involving his parents (and does so) or feels the need to involve his parents (and does so). If a parent hears a rumor first, that's tricky, but usually they would let their own child know, gently, and offer any help they thought was helpful at that point. At no point is it desirable or preferable to seek out knowledge of the rumors in one's children's lives just to know stuff -- to 'get ahead' of whatever catastrophe might be 'next' after a benign picture and a claim of relationship.

It honestly sounds like you think parents can prevent this sort of hurt in our kids' lives. That's a weird perspective. If someone is hurting them online, we can help with the coping, but we can't prevent the hurting.

I think I'm just more comfortable with danger, and more resigned and fatalistic about the role of the internet in making kids upset. You keep suggesting that perhaps I am ignorant of these things, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. Teenage life is painful and traumatic. Then they process it. That's how life works for 99% of the population. I think it's magical thinking to act as if such things are preventable, and also catastrophic thinking to imagine they aren't recoverable.

2 hours ago, BronzeTurtle said:

I'm sure your kid is more emotionally mature than most teens and is able to handle all of this better so you don't have to provide guidance unless they ask. some kids are not there yet, even at 15yo. and sometimes the mature kids get into it with someone immature who doesn't know that the racy picture they sent can get everyone in trouble, or will follow them for life. so you, as a parent don't have to care about who is at the other end of their social media. Some parents do have to care, at least a little.

Why would my kids be more emotionally mature than most teens? Averages being irrefutable math, I'm quite sure my kids are in the middle part of the normal distribution curve for emotional maturity. I provide lots of general guidance to my children without being asked, and plenty when situations get specific and they share those situations with me. I try very hard to influence my children towards wisdom and discretion online.

One of the things I teach them is that they have absolutely no control or influence over what other people do online, that they are totally powerless and totally helpless in terms of the choices other individuals make. Therefore I would model that in situations where another kid is using their image by saying, "Well, there's nothing we can do about that. So what can we do?"

One of the pieces of info I provide is that you never know what people are going to do with your image on the internet, and some of it could be hurtful. I've been teaching them that since I had them opting out of group photos for internet publication at VBS and everywhere else.

If my kids ignore that message and put a "racy" photo out there, I will comfort them and tell them that it's a mistake a lot of people make, and that, while it's hard to deal with the thought of other people controlling that image forever, having a body and being a teenager is nothing to be ashamed of. I might even revisit some of the 'scandals' of old racy photos of successful folks they admire -- both to illustrate that, yes, the embarrassment may follow them 'forever' but also that it happens to lots of folks, and often 'the public' doesn't care as much about a silly old snapshot as the person featured in the shot cares.

But 'caring' about who is on the other end of social media is an exercise in futility. I care about and for the kids I'm responsible for. I basically expect the rest of the world to mistreat them in one way or another. That's why they need me in their corner.

[bolt.]

49 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I don’t know that the mon saw the instagram profile or not. Now she’s advertising her Snap on it. 

She has not been at school since I got the text about the phone.

I'm not sure I understand, because there's a lot of "she" going on, but it sounds like the girl's Instagram is still up, and further that you have now noticed that she has Snapchat, which you learned because the Snapchat info is being shared on the Instagram profile.

This might be contrary to your expectations because one would expect a mom of a kid who isn't allowed to be on social media to have shut down that account if she knows about it. But, instead, it seems like her social media access is continuing/expanding.

Also, that the girl is not at school these days. How many school/meeting days have passed without her being there? Do you think she is safe (do you have any concerns that she is being mistreated)?

Other than concerns for the girl's wellbeing, I think the situation is probably fine. Does your Instagram feed automatically give you her content? Or are you seeking the info? Is there a way for you to get some distance? How are you doing -- stressing? Or just keeping an eye on things?

[BronzeTurtle]

Quote

You keep switching between a scenario where the kid has no idea his image is being used this way (so it's not bothering him and he needs no particular help) and a situation where he knows and is hurting because of the way he is being treated online (so he needs parental comfort and guidance). I don't see how those are the same thing to you.

lol, yes, until he finds out it's not a problem.

I haven't posted about two separate scenarios. this was a purely hypothetical, but somewhat related scenario to the OP.

This is getting kind of hilariously gaslighting. I posted about one scenario that Frances introduced as a hypothetical. It is dysfunctional to post online that someone is your SO without their knowledge. if this was happening to/about my kid, I'd want to know so that I could advise them that, although perhaps flattering, it is not healthy behavior and they would be wise to stay away from someone that does that. I can't control his or her feelings or crushes. at 15 I can pretty much only advise. sometimes, at 15yo, dysfunctional relationship behaviors can be seen as loving or fun and kids have trouble discerning the difference. as a parent, if I know about some things I can offer input even, hey, if my kids don't ask for it.

i think 14/15yo is where kids should be getting more and more freedom. I don't think it's out of place to say, if x unhealthy dynamic is happening, I as a parent would like to know. we disagree. it's fine. it's not me commenting on your parental standards.

if you are more hands off as a parent, that's great and i have no beef. if this happens to your teen 6 times a day and it's no big deal, i have no beef.

instead of saying something like "you keep doing xyz" it would be really helpful if you just quote directly where I've said two different things in context because then I could clarify or delete and apologize.

[BronzeTurtle]

1 hour ago, fraidycat said:

Wow, that's a whole lot of nothing to do with THIS situation.

The two kids in question have a MUTUAL crush.

One of those kids posted a photo to social media that the other did not know about. Non-posting kid is most likely in the range from neutral to ecstatic about said photo, because MUTUAL attraction. Not stalking or bullying. 15 year old puppy love. 

I'm beginning to think you are the mother of the girl in the OP trying to defend insinuating that OPs son is deceitful. 

Yes. you caught me. I created a wtm account months (years?) ago to ask a question about latin curriculum and now here we are.

 

[BronzeTurtle]

1 hour ago, fraidycat said:

Wow, that's a whole lot of nothing to do with THIS situation.

The two kids in question have a MUTUAL crush.

One of those kids posted a photo to social media that the other did not know about. Non-posting kid is most likely in the range from neutral to ecstatic about said photo, because MUTUAL attraction. Not stalking or bullying. 15 year old puppy love. 

I'm beginning to think you are the mother of the girl in the OP trying to defend insinuating that OPs son is deceitful. 

it has almost nothing to do with this situation because I was originally responding to a hypothetical "she could have done this without his knowledge" posed by another poster. I have tried to quote the posts I've responded to as I'm responding.

perhaps the fundamental disagreement is that if she did it without his knowledge whether or not it is problematic. I don't see it as cute or funny or puppy love even if the other party thinks it's flattering and loves it. I would try to caution any kid away, boy or girl, away from someone who was posting things about them online without their knowledge, much less claiming them as their SO, but then again i have always just thought it was normal to ask someone's consent to post about them or post photos of them online. apparently not as universal as I thought.

at 15 claiming someone as your SO online with a photo without them knowing might be romantic cute puppy love. at 25 a girl doing that to a guy is crazy. at 30, a guy doing that to a girl is predatory. I don't know anyone except the people on this board who would think it's funny and healthy relationship dynamics.

I don't think the OP's son did anything wrong. If I have said as such, I'm sorry and I will read through and find it so I can amend it. I find the girl and the mom's behavior problematic in any case, regardless of hypotheticals, so I think don't think I am them.

[BronzeTurtle]

nm, too far off the OP and probably not productive

Edited November 3, 2023 by BronzeTurtle

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, BronzeTurtle said:

It is dysfunctional to post online that someone is your SO without their knowledge. if this was happening to/about my kid, I'd want to know so that I could advise them that, although perhaps flattering, it is not healthy behavior and they would be wise to stay away from someone that does that.

Yes, it is dysfunctional to post online that someone is your SO without their knowledge. It's just that I can't do anything to help ensure that other people's kids aren't dysfunctional.

I don't need to know that other people's children are dysfunctional, even if they are dysfunctional in a way that involves my kid's photo without their knowledge, because in the period before my kid knows it's happening, there's nothing for my kid to handle, so they don't need any advice.

If my kid comes to know that this has happened, then it's not "happening without their knowledge". If it is happening with their knowledge, I'd follow their lead to assess how much advice they needed. Generally my advice would be similar to yours -- perhaps not 'stay away' but at least 'be aware'.

[SKL]

2 hours ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

She has not been at school since I got the text about the phone.

I hope she's OK.

[BronzeTurtle]

1 hour ago, bolt. said:

Yes, it is dysfunctional to post online that someone is your SO without their knowledge. It's just that I can't do anything to help ensure that other people's kids aren't dysfunctional.

I don't need to know that other people's children are dysfunctional, even if they are dysfunctional in a way that involves my kid's photo without their knowledge, because in the period before my kid knows it's happening, there's nothing for my kid to handle, so they don't need any advice.

If my kid comes to know that this has happened, then it's not "happening without their knowledge". If it is happening with their knowledge, I'd follow their lead to assess how much advice they needed. Generally my advice would be similar to yours -- perhaps not 'stay away' but at least 'be aware'.

bolt, I don't know if you're trolling me or if we have some kind of native language barrier where I'm not using the right verb tenses, but of course you can't/won't do anything if you don't know about the issue. I would think that would go without saying. it's not even a thing. I've never posted in this thread about giving advice to a kid about something I/they don't know is happening. I am so confused about this semantic issue.

what kicked all of this off is I said "if someone was doing that without my knowledge, I would like to know." I stated that in the post you quoted.  as in if I didn't know, I would like to find out it was happening. I personally would not mind another parent letting me know if they knew it was happening. or another kid letting me know, or a kid letting my kid know. from there, a lot depends on the intent of the person doing it. but, no, I would not want to be in a social organization with someone doing that without me knowing. so i would like to know. it's not complicated.

Edited November 3, 2023 by BronzeTurtle

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, BronzeTurtle said:

nm, too far off the OP and probably not productive

Thank you for that. I was getting all grumpy over here about what I wanted to say, and then feeling like it would be really bad manners to take Ab's thread so far off topic, but wanting to say my say anyways. Thanks for taking the high road before me, and for being the bigger person. I genuinely appreciate it.

[bolt.]

1 minute ago, BronzeTurtle said:

bolt, I don't know if you're trolling me or if we have some kind of native language barrier where I'm not using the right verb tenses, but of course you can't/won't do anything if you don't know about the issue. I would think that would go without saying. it's not even a thing. I've never posted in this thread about giving advice to a kid about something I/they don't know is happening. I am so confused about this semantic issue.

what kicked all of this off is I said "if someone was doing that without my knowledge, I would like to know." I stated that in the post I quoted.  as in if I didn't know, I would like to find out it was happening. I personally would not mind another parent letting me know if they knew it was happening. or another kid letting me know, or a kid letting my kid know. from there, a lot depends on the intent of the person doing it. but, no, I would not want to be in a social organization.

I'm definitely not trolling. I was totally confused as to why anybody (as a parent) would feel the need to know online rumor about their children, if/when the child themself didn't even know. That's why I said that I didn't care what was happening online with my child's image if my child didn't even know it was happening; and that I wouldn't consider it my business at that point.

We still do have a parenting difference: In that I would be more than happy to let the rumor / post / benign photo pass without either my knowledge or my kid's knowledge, if that's what was naturally going to happen. I wouldn't be mad if someone told me, but equally I wouldn't be mad to be in the dark. (And I'd also be fine to be in the dark if my kid did know about it, but was coping with the situation in a way they were comfortable with, since it's only a benign photo and a mild claim.)

It sounds like you would prefer that someone let you in on it -- which is fine too. I just think that it's small drama, best overlooked. (If it were a more serious photo or a more outrageous claim, I'd be closer to your position of hoping someone would let me know.)

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, BronzeTurtle said:

 

take the internet out of it. my kids, as teens, would probably not have known how to handle, say, a girl telling everyone they were bf/gf without his knowledge although it wouldn't have been as public or as permanent as something posted on the internet in those days.

And if my kid came to me with that situation, I'd help him/her with it. We agree with that. 

[Rosie_0801]

I think this thread has come to the end of its useful lifespan.