S/O Dodgy practices, dark patterns and subscription traps: who is getting it right and who, wrong?

[Ginevra]

Spun off from the Hello Fresh thread. 
I think we can help each other out here, so we know what sneaky stuff to look for and how to avoid getting stuck in company quagmires that make you waste money. I spoke a bit about Jostens in the other thread; they are top of my list of absolutely hated companies who do this sneaky stuff to force you to waste money. (Not to mention, it is my opinion that graduation garb should 100% be rentable or borrowable, so we can stop generating all this garbage year after year, and it is rude that people with limited resources have to buy this total piece of crap gown made of some sh!t nylon fabric so their kid can wear it for three hours one time!) 

I do like apps like Rocketmoney (used to be Truebill) or YNAB, in order to keep yourself aware of what subscriptions you have. Rocketmoney notifies you ahead of time when an annual subscription is about to renew, so it helps you cancel forgotten or unused stuff. 

[footballmom]

We are also in an area that the schools contract with Josten’s for grad stuff. Which is a silly way for me to put it, since the school isn’t paying for the gown, the parent is. But the school system selects the vendor who gets the benefit of charging whatever they want, grrr.

In the fall of my oldest’s senior year, I get a text from him that says, “this has everything I will need for graduation” with a clickable link. You guessed it, and as you said Quill, all kinds of silly unnecessary junk, plus the cap and gown, for hundreds of dollars. They had an info session about graduation and the Jostens rep had them all pull out their phones and text their parents their created text to push to their parents. I was so turned off, I spent all the extra time it took to buy only the “necessary” cap and gown and nothing else. It felt so gross how Josten’s tried to present it as “here’s the bundle you NEED”. I get the idea of marketing, but just, no.

[MercyA]

Adobe. 

I subscribed for a year to use some of their special features. I could log into my account just fine to see my plan, billing info, etc. However, EVERY time I tried to go to the page on their website on which I could cancel my subscription, I was booted out and told to create a new password. And it was this whole process with a security code, etc. I did it 3 times, same result every time. They know people are going to give up. (I did, and emailed them instead. No response yet, of course.)

Grrrr.

[Bambam]

Automated magazine subscription renewals. We subscribed for my MIL a magazine (Reminisce if anyone remembers it). It went out of business one issue later, but another magazine was substituted in its place. MIL like that one okay too. I tried to cancel when I got the automatic renewal email, and I did cancel it (got a refund for like $1.23), but the next time I looked on my CC statement - there it was again for the full price. I cancelled again, called my CC company to dispute the charge and they advised me to cancel that card and get a new one. Total hassle. I will say their automatic subscription email *and* webpage it linked to were both wrote in a confusing manner. 

[TheReader]

Apparently, I once signed up for Education (dot) com, which has various projects, worksheets, activities, etc. for all ages/grades.  I got a charge for a crazy amount, that I would *never* have paid for something like that, went digging, found the subscription, and where I had, in fact, downloaded some stuff from them (a ton of stuff). 

Did  more digging -- here's the various shady parts, in case anyone here also has subscribed to them: 

*Year One subscription is $60 -- all future years it increases to $120 w/o notice/warning (the terms includes fine print permitting this)
*You *can* cancel online (good)
*You *cannot* remove your saved payment method, only change it, even if you've cancelled (it will not let you "edit" and leave the card info blank)

I emailed them, and explained all of the shadiness of all of this, and they did process a refund, although they claimed to have sent me all the appropriate "you're about to renew" emails and such (I never found them in my inbox or spam folder), etc. so that part was at least good, but....ugh. They still did not remove my cc info but did send verification that I was cancelled, which I've saved so for next year/just in case. 

[ScoutTN]

Tracfone! SO terrible!!!

My mom had a phone with them years ago snd we are STILL in a battle to figure out how to stop their billing and cancel/close the acct. Problematic bc mom no longer has any of the info and cannot do technology. 

[Kidlit]

Here, hear to the graduation cr@p!  I have back-to-back seniors.  Why must we have two of everything??

[Ausmumof3]

I feel crappy about this one because I’ve recommended them here before but Matholia charged us after I’d canceled our subscription and I never got the money back. The software was ok but we weren’t needing it anymore. I also learned the hard way that eBay sellers will string you along till the feedback window has closed with promises/negotiations. I now have a much shorter window for sorting stuff and if it’s not dealt with too bad. They clearly were never providing a solution just trying to keep the discussion going until I couldn’t rate them.

I have also had trouble with Microsoft where we were told we had to buy Microsoft dollars to buy some kind of app then were unable to use the money for that app so I still have an unused credit. I guess we’ll probably use it eventually. It was pretty impossible to talk to anyone real. 
 

I don’t know if Leatherman is a US thing but there warranty is amazing. They say lifetime warranty and they really honour it and replace parts etc. 

[marbel]

The grad stuff - and other college/dorm stuff really - also plays on parents' insecurities.

The full grad package is highlighted and presented as if that's what "good" parents buy. In my experience, it was always too much. We did manage to find just what we needed.  Team photo packages were similarly set up. The highlighted package always had way too many photos/combinations/swag so it took a bit of searching to find what we wanted (which was minimal). 

We used to get mailings from one of my kids' schools for a few different things. One was a care package subscription - overpriced food to be sent to your kid's dorm/apartment. Whenever that brochure arrived, the college parent facebook group would light up with people asking what other parents did. I remember one woman asking if it was OK to just send stuff from home!  Others were seeking reassurance that they would not be the only parent not having these sent. I remember most parents who had done it reporting negative experiences. 

[Ali in OR]

re: Jostens--My school (where my kids went and where I now teach) encourages grads to donate their robe back to the school to be used by other kids in future years. My disabled kid benefitted from this--the lifeskills program just borrows robes for their small graduation in the school theater. I hear we may be getting close to having robes for everyone. Of course one would still need to buy the mortarboard--it is quite the tradition to decorate your cap elaborately. Not reusable! I am grateful for the summer school principal I worked with who had twins graduating the same year as my older dd who pointed out the line at the very bottom where you could just get the robe and mortarboard (though they made it vague on whether or. not it included a tassel--it did).

[Soror]

I have a senior this year and they do Jostens here too. 

I just bought the cap and gown- I think it was $40. Ds is not overly sentimental so he didn't really care. 

I also got a big envelope from the college ds is attending in the fall. It was from the college and said open within 2 weeks so I thought it was important. I open it and it is this bedding and decor company that contracts with the college to sell sets. They push the fact that college beds are Twin XL and your regular sets won't work there. They act like I can't just go to Wal-Mart and buy some. I promptly threw it away. I'm not buying a bunch of crap to decorate his room. I'll buy bedding locally and he can take decor stuff from home he likes. I don't 'get' all the fuss over this stuff and I don't have the budget even if I did. I think it's all way over the top.

[skimomma]

Ranger Rick.  Grrrr.....  I bought a subscription as a gift for a family member.  I made sure to put in my calendar the date to cancel the renewal.  Then discovered how difficult they make it to cancel.  

[Miss Tick]

Huh. I had been planning to encourage my current 8th grader to skip graduation. This thread is firming my resolve! (I don't actually expect I'll be able to influence the decision)

[Grace Hopper]

7 hours ago, Quill said:

Spun off from the Hello Fresh thread. 
I think we can help each other out here, so we know what sneaky stuff to look for and how to avoid getting stuck in company quagmires that make you waste money. I spoke a bit about Jostens in the other thread; they are top of my list of absolutely hated companies who do this sneaky stuff to force you to waste money. (Not to mention, it is my opinion that graduation garb should 100% be rentable or borrowable, so we can stop generating all this garbage year after year, and it is rude that people with limited resources have to buy this total piece of crap gown made of some sh!t nylon fabric so their kid can wear it for three hours one time!) 

I do like apps like Rocketmoney (used to be Truebill) or YNAB, in order to keep yourself aware of what subscriptions you have. Rocketmoney notifies you ahead of time when an annual subscription is about to renew, so it helps you cancel forgotten or unused stuff. 

Joining along in the J@sten’s hate. Such a ripoff. 

17 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

re: Jostens--My school (where my kids went and where I now teach) encourages grads to donate their robe back to the school to be used by other kids in future years. My disabled kid benefitted from this--the lifeskills program just borrows robes for their small graduation in the school theater. I hear we may be getting close to having robes for everyone. Of course one would still need to buy the mortarboard--it is quite the tradition to decorate your cap elaborately. Not reusable! I am grateful for the summer school principal I worked with who had twins graduating the same year as my older dd who pointed out the line at the very bottom where you could just get the robe and mortarboard (though they made it vague on whether or. not it included a tassel--it did).

I would love it if our school had ways to donate for reuse. I think the minimum I had to buy for youngest came to $80. 

[TheReader]

in the realm of who does it *right* -- all the streaming services we use. 

DH routinely signs up for a month, cancels immediately, we have that service for that month (to watch whatever thing just debuted/just finished being released), and then we don't have to forget to cancel later. We've done this with all of them so far:
netflix, disney+, HBOMax, AppleTV, etc.  

No issues with any of them, and then we're never paying for more than one at a time, and not paying for them when there's not stuff we want to watch. 

[Ausmumof3]

One nasty trick I notice a lot of companies use is allowing you to subscribe easily from your phone but making you go to the desktop site to unsubscribe. And the process is typically more complicated than subscribing as well.

[73349]

If you buy protein powders/shakes/etc., Orgain is good for subscriptions. They're clear about what you're getting and how much it costs, they send a reminder email a few days before each shipment, and canceling is easy. I canceled our subscription because of a dietary change, but I respect the way they work.

Edited April 27, 2023 by 73349

[Toocrazy!!]

I like the Apple subscriptions on my phone - it's easy to see the list and to cancel under your Apple ID in settings.

I was trying to look at a clothing rental subscription, and had to enter my credit card info before I could see the clothing options. Aftet lookimg at them for a day, I just couldn't find enough pieces to rent to justify the monthly cost. They tried to sell me a few times when I messaged to cancel, but in the end they did let me cancel it. I just don't like to pay to see first option.

[Heartstrings]

Tax Slayer.  I used it for a family member who qualified for the free tax filing.  Tax slayer “upgrades” you to the tune of $80 right at the end.  I had to google to figure out that to remove the “upgrade” you have to email and plead your case.  They did respond to email quickly and “downgraded” it back to the free file but the whole thing was so scammy.  

Free magazines at Books A Million.   I got one years ago and have no way to cancel it.  You get 3 free issues but it just keeps going.  

[73349]

9 minutes ago, Toocrazy!! said:

 I just don't like to pay to see first option.

Yes. Thrive Market is the same way. How do I know whether I want something if I can't fill a cart without giving my information??

[Heartstrings]

Does anyone know of a school not associated with Josten?  Just curious. 

[Grace Hopper]

15 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Does anyone know of a school not associated with Josten?  Just curious. 

Not a school, but years ago for my oldest I used a website called homeschool diploma for everything. I also recently used them for name card inserts for youngest so I wouldn’t have to buy an upgraded package from J’s. 
 

https://www.homeschooldiploma.com
At a glance it does look like their prices have also gone up. 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One nasty trick I notice a lot of companies use is allowing you to subscribe easily from your phone but making you go to the desktop site to unsubscribe. And the process is typically more complicated than subscribing as well.

What I've run into is being able to subscribe online but having to call to cancel. Because of course they want to try to talk you out of cancelling by offering a special deal, or maybe think a lot of people won't hassle with making the call. I remember hearing that Congress was looking into making that illegal--that if you could subscribe online you had to be able to cancel online--but I don't know if anything was ever passed or not.

[smstjohn]

We haven't used their services in a while, but Chewy was fantastic to deal with. They're easy to work with and it seems like their company cares about their pet clientele.

[Annie G]

1 minute ago, smstjohn said:

We haven't used their services in a while, but Chewy was fantastic to deal with. They're easy to work with and it seems like their company cares about their pet clientele.

And animals in general! As our cat aged he wasn't as able to tolerate new foods. Sometimes a food he loved was discontinued or unavailable and Chewy recommended a substitution. In every case, if Pick didn’t like it, they refunded our money and asked us to donate the food to our shelter. When Pick passed away and I contacted Chewy to cancel our auto ship they were not only quick to cancel, they sent us condolence flowers. 

[KidsHappen]

I once accidently got a Kohl's credit card by mistake. I still not sure exactly what happened but I think they were having a 20% off sale if you used your Kohl's card and I thought it was like a frequent customer card like you get at Kroger's. I didn't even realize what happened until the end when I tried to give my debit card and she said I already put it on your credit card and I told her that I hadn't given her a card yet and then she explained to me that she had put it on the Kohl's card I just opened. I was horribly confused and it was a surreal experience trying to explain to my hubby that I had just accidently gotten a Kohl's card and I wasn't exactly sure how it happened. 

I later talked to my dd who had previously worked at Kohl's and she explained it was standard operating practice that they were trained how to basically trick people into getting a card. I almost never go to Kohl's because it is practically impossible to know how much something actually costs until you are checking out and this is from someone who is fairly well educated and experienced in managing cash and credit transactions as my previous job was cash manager at a large, big-box retail establishment where I occasionally had million dollar days.

[BronzeTurtle]

We had a terrible time cancelling Vonage back in the day when we got a VOIP phone. That's the worst one I remember aside from the ones that I did when I was young and dumb. Remember buying 12 CDs for 1 cent or whatever? then you got one cd a month for like 25 or 30 dollars until you yelled at them or the card didn't work anymore.

my biggest trouble in cancelling things lately is my own disorganization. I paid for a whole year of beast academy after my kid was done with it.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Not sure if this counts, but my mortgage is through Rocket Mortgage. They're fine as a mortgage company in general.

But about a month ago, I financed a car. I got a call a couple days later from Rocket Mortgage, saying they had important information about my loan. So I'm like okay, that sounds important. I called them back and some fast talker got me roped in to agreeing to a refinance of my house so I could pay off my car loan. The call must have been triggered by the credit inquiries on my new car. I was busy that day and not paying full attention when I agreed to apply, so the next day I sat down and reviewed the terms. I am not completely familiar with refinancing in general so some of it may have been standard. 

The interest rate would have been higher than my current interest rate. (The sales  guy assured me that was likely to drop soon and then we could refinance again at that point). I do not pay PMI on my house at the moment, but I would under the refinance. Of course my total payment would go up, and of course I'd be starting over at day 1 on repaying the mortgage. When I calculated the cost over the 30 years the refinance would have come to an extra $60,000. All to get $16,000 now (not even the full amount of the car loan, which I comfortably financed over 5 years-and the interest rate on that was lower than the refinance interest rate). 

So I told the guy I was backing out and gave him all these reasons why. Of course he tried to tell me why I was wrong at each step, and kept bringing up the lower interest rate "soon." I said he couldn't guarantee that it would drop. He incorrectly told me I wasn't planning to hold on to the house for long (I kinda plan to die here) and that I didn't have kids. etc. etc. I don't know where he came up with that information, assumptions I suppose. 

I was told several times over the course of a month they were withdrawing the loan application, only to get a call the next day trying to convince me to continue with the application. Finally, I told the guy I was firm, to withdraw the application, and I hung up. Thought that was the end. Oh no, the next day, a NEW guy called me to try to convince me to go along with the refinance. 

At this point I decided to block the number, and reported them to the BBB. There were a lot of similar complaints there. This all began while I was minding my own business, and they used their status as my loan servicer to prey on me. I would avoid Rocket Mortgage completely if I were to look for a new home. 

[vonfirmath]

It is things like this that have caused me more and more not to give reasons. I just say "No" and "We don't want <what you are "not selling">"  etc

[marbel]

44 minutes ago, BronzeTurtle said:

Remember buying 12 CDs for 1 cent or whatever? then you got one cd a month for like 25 or 30 dollars until you yelled at them or the card didn't work anymore.

I was thinking about this. I've got to say, I did great with those, and book clubs too. I couldn't manage it now but at the time, I always cancelled immediately after I fulfilled my purchase obligation. I don't remember any trouble with it. I built a great CD collection and got a lot of books, including my beloved set of Oxford Illustrated Dickens! I guess I didn't have much going on in those days, LOL. 

I've sometimes come across clothing ads on SM that I've clicked through to browse, and found that to look at their goods, I had to provide my email address. I just back out at that point. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by marbel

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One nasty trick I notice a lot of companies use is allowing you to subscribe easily from your phone but making you go to the desktop site to unsubscribe. And the process is typically more complicated than subscribing as well.

Worse than that I've found a lot of them make you call them to cancel. I don't recall which companies made me do that but I remember it was more than one. Now I'm hesitant to even do trials especially if they make me insert a CC for the trial.

[vonfirmath]

I am hesitant to do trials because I'm not organized enough to remember to cancel in time.

[kirstenhill]

4 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

Does anyone know of a school not associated with Josten?  Just curious. 

I have no idea where they order them from, but when DD graduated the high school (large-ish - graduating class was close to 400), took care of a bulk order. The kids got measured for gowns, paid a small fee ($20?), and then they were picked up at school in late May before graduation.  It was very easy, and nice not to have to deal with any of the ordering or upsells other people talk about.

[dsmith]

3 hours ago, smstjohn said:

We haven't used their services in a while, but Chewy was fantastic to deal with. They're easy to work with and it seems like their company cares about their pet clientele.

I love Chewy! Plus, when my pet passed away and I had to cancel my deliveries they sent flowers and a handwritten card. 

[TheReader]

2 hours ago, Clarita said:

Worse than that I've found a lot of them make you call them to cancel. I don't recall which companies made me do that but I remember it was more than one. Now I'm hesitant to even do trials especially if they make me insert a CC for the trial.

 

1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

I am hesitant to do trials because I'm not organized enough to remember to cancel in time.

So, my DH just does the free trial, then immediately cancels the next day (or the same day) - you still have the free (week, month, whatever) but you've already canceled, so no worries/no issues. How/when he figured out to do it that way, I have no idea, but it's genius and works every time. 

[Heartstrings]

53 minutes ago, kirstenhill said:

I have no idea where they order them from, but when DD graduated the high school (large-ish - graduating class was close to 400), took care of a bulk order. The kids got measured for gowns, paid a small fee ($20?), and then they were picked up at school in late May before graduation.  It was very easy, and nice not to have to deal with any of the ordering or upsells other people talk about.

It’s good to know they don’t have 100% of the schools at least.  

[Resilient]

WIX website provider.  I killed my business two years ago, stopped paying on my subscription for the website and told them I was done, and still, EVERY YEAR on the anniversary of my billing cycle, they send me a mail EVERY DAY to tell me that my subscription will be taken away unless I pay up.  I think the only reason I actually did not end up paying for their service is that I killed the credit card they had linked to me.  And as for finding customer service.... crickets.

 

 

[math teacher]

An employee with Jackson Hewitt diverted about $700 from ds's tax return to her own account. We went to the police and many other people for help and never could get anything done.

[rebcoola]

Directtv Stream is one of the ones that is easy to sign up but you have to jump through hoops and cancel in a totally different way.  All the other streaming services I have used to watch sports have been fine ( sling, fubo, YouTube tv)

[SeaConquest]

I've had a networked/wireless Brother printer for years. Haven't changed the settings recently. Have had Amazon Alexa since 1st Gen. Have the setting turned off where you can order on Amazon through Alexa because I didn't want the kids to order something without asking. I get an email the other day from Amazon with an order for printer toner made by the printer itself (the confirmation literally named the Brother printer as the culprit who ordered the toner). I was never sent anything whereby I consented to the purchase before it was made by the printer. I only knew about it because of the email confirmation from Amazon -- after the item had already been charged to my default card on file with Amazon.

Since we haven't made any recent changes to the settings on either the printer or Amazon Alexa, my only guess is that we may have recently updated the printer driver on a new device and, perhaps, buried in the consent to install the driver, was something that allowed the printer to make Amazon orders without my prior knowledge or consent. 

[Heartstrings]

4 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I've had a networked/wireless Brother printer for years. Haven't changed the settings recently. Have had Amazon Alexa since 1st Gen. Have the setting turned off where you can order on Amazon through Alexa because I didn't want the kids to order something without asking. I get an email the other day from Amazon with an order for printer toner made by the printer itself (the confirmation literally named the Brother printer as the culprit who ordered the toner). I was never sent anything whereby I consented to the purchase before it was made by the printer. I only knew about it because of the email confirmation from Amazon -- after the item had already been charged to my default card on file with Amazon.

Since we haven't made any recent changes to the settings on either the printer or Amazon Alexa, my only guess is that we may have recently updated the printer driver on a new device and, perhaps, buried in the consent to install the driver, was something that allowed the printer to make Amazon orders without my prior knowledge or consent. 

Creepy yet convenient.  I can't decide if this is a good or bad development.....🙃

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Resilient said:

WIX website provider.  I killed my business two years ago, stopped paying on my subscription for the website and told them I was done, and still, EVERY YEAR on the anniversary of my billing cycle, they send me a mail EVERY DAY to tell me that my subscription will be taken away unless I pay up.  I think the only reason I actually did not end up paying for their service is that I killed the credit card they had linked to me.  And as for finding customer service.... crickets.

 

 

Ugh! 
On the subject of work-related providers: Quickbooks Pro. I hate that company, yet I have to continue throwing absurd amounts of money at them for the accounting program for dh’s business. I switched to Online last November, in part because they are discontinuing the desktop model, and also because the annual update is like $650; I thought the subscription-based online would be better for the same or similar total annual cost. IT IS NOT. 
 

I cancelled the desktop update so I wouldn’t get charged in December for the year when I was changing it anyway. Great, except doing that prevented me from correctly calculating payroll taxes *at all*; it literally disappeared and I could only manually enter payroll taxes based on past payroll and an educated guess. 🤨 Getting up and running with the Online program was inordinately more convoluted than I expected and it is still not completely dialed in. 
 

To add to all that, they constantly try to upsell directly in my company overview page. I think their goal is to make it NOT intuitive and frustrating as hell, so you will give the hell up and will subscribe to virtual accountants too. (Which I actually considered, but I am on a QB FB group and saw that someone who is employed as a QB virtual bookkeeper was asking how she should “break it” to a small business owner that her charges for cleaning up books have now totaled $12,000. I’m not paying anyone $12,000 to perfect my digital books!) 

Also, if you actually need a manual so that you know what the eff you’re doing, you have to buy a “For Dummies” or similar. There is no way to troubleshoot or even just know how it differs from desktop without an unofficial manual. If you call, they try to upsell and a troubleshoot call costs money. 
 

If dh were younger, I would be looking for a different system altogether but it’s moot now; we will just keep using and hating QBs until he closes the company. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

16 hours ago, Resilient said:

WIX website provider.  I killed my business two years ago, stopped paying on my subscription for the website and told them I was done, and still, EVERY YEAR on the anniversary of my billing cycle, they send me a mail EVERY DAY to tell me that my subscription will be taken away unless I pay up.  I think the only reason I actually did not end up paying for their service is that I killed the credit card they had linked to me.  And as for finding customer service.... crickets.

 

 

DD had a webpage with them. DSIL moved it to a provider he preferred and we canceled it but I have to fight billing every year with no ability to remove my payment method. Such a PITA. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Not too long ago (I posted about it here) I was charged for Walmart plus using a card I no longer use and hadn't used at a Walmart in over a year. I never signed up for it. They told me I must've accidentally signed up for it at check out but I literally never use that credit card. Again, no ability to remove my payment method from the webpage. When I tried to cancel something I never signed up for they tried to convince me that I would regret that and that I needed this in my life. I rarely shop Walmart. I told the man, even if I thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread, I'm canceling on the principle of the matter. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[Wheres Toto]

23 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One nasty trick I notice a lot of companies use is allowing you to subscribe easily from your phone but making you go to the desktop site to unsubscribe. And the process is typically more complicated than subscribing as well.

We had the opposite from Paramount Plus.  We actually wanted to upgrade our account and we couldn't do it from the website or a phone.  Because it was set up through our Roku, we had to do the update through our Roku.   I don't know what would have happened if we no longer had our Roku.  We have it but never use it anymore.    There was no option shown for that.  

 

18 hours ago, TheReader said:

 

So, my DH just does the free trial, then immediately cancels the next day (or the same day) - you still have the free (week, month, whatever) but you've already canceled, so no worries/no issues. How/when he figured out to do it that way, I have no idea, but it's genius and works every time. 

This doesn't always work.  Some sites cancel immediately.    I signed up for a free trial with Scribd.    It ends the moment I cancel it and of course, when you go to cancel, it pushes waiting until the current month is over.   I am positive I went in and cancelled at the end of my trial, I had reminders everywhere.   But I still was charged for a month.   Not sure if I didn't do it early enough, or missed clicking one button or something, but I'm going to just go ahead and lose the money for the one month and cancel immediately.  

[Wheres Toto]

5 hours ago, Quill said:

Ugh! 
On the subject of work-related providers: Quickbooks Pro. I hate that company, yet I have to continue throwing absurd amounts of money at them for the accounting program for dh’s business. I switched to Online last November, in part because they are discontinuing the desktop model, and also because the annual update is like $650; I thought the subscription-based online would be better for the same or similar total annual cost. IT IS NOT. 
 

I cancelled the desktop update so I wouldn’t get charged in December for the year when I was changing it anyway. Great, except doing that prevented me from correctly calculating payroll taxes *at all*; it literally disappeared and I could only manually enter payroll taxes based on past payroll and an educated guess. 🤨 Getting up and running with the Online program was inordinately more convoluted than I expected and it is still not completely dialed in. 
 

To add to all that, they constantly try to upsell directly in my company overview page. I think their goal is to make it NOT intuitive and frustrating as hell, so you will give the hell up and will subscribe to virtual accountants too. (Which I actually considered, but I am on a QB FB group and saw that someone who is employed as a QB virtual bookkeeper was asking how she should “break it” to a small business owner that her charges for cleaning up books have now totaled $12,000. I’m not paying anyone $12,000 to perfect my digital books!) 

Also, if you actually need a manual so that you know what the eff you’re doing, you have to buy a “For Dummies” or similar. There is no way to troubleshoot or even just know how it differs from desktop without an unofficial manual. If you call, they try to upsell and a troubleshoot call costs money. 
 

If dh were younger, I would be looking for a different system altogether but it’s moot now; we will just keep using and hating QBs until he closes the company. 

I'm still using an old version of Quickbooks desktop but I don't use any of their automatic services, do my payroll through Payroll4Free, and basically only use it for recording accounts and running reports.    We hire what we consider a pretty expensive accountant and they "fix" our books each year for way less than $12,000.  And we are in a very high COL area.  

[Forget-Me-Not]

On 4/27/2023 at 8:08 AM, Heartstrings said:

Does anyone know of a school not associated with Josten?  Just curious. 

Ours uses Herff Jones. They let us rent a gown plus buy just a mortarboard and tassel for $40. They did “recommend” another package that included all the usual crap like a class ring and a front yard sign (I’m 99% sure my grad would murder me in my sleep if I planted her face in the yard) but it was easy to look through their options for the barebones package. I have a very non-sentimental grad LOL. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Forget-Me-Not

[dsmith]

9 hours ago, Quill said:

Ugh! 
On the subject of work-related providers: Quickbooks Pro. I hate that company, yet I have to continue throwing absurd amounts of money at them for the accounting program for dh’s business. I switched to Online last November, in part because they are discontinuing the desktop model, and also because the annual update is like $650; I thought the subscription-based online would be better for the same or similar total annual cost. IT IS NOT. 
 

I cancelled the desktop update so I wouldn’t get charged in December for the year when I was changing it anyway. Great, except doing that prevented me from correctly calculating payroll taxes *at all*; it literally disappeared and I could only manually enter payroll taxes based on past payroll and an educated guess. 🤨 Getting up and running with the Online program was inordinately more convoluted than I expected and it is still not completely dialed in. 
 

To add to all that, they constantly try to upsell directly in my company overview page. I think their goal is to make it NOT intuitive and frustrating as hell, so you will give the hell up and will subscribe to virtual accountants too. (Which I actually considered, but I am on a QB FB group and saw that someone who is employed as a QB virtual bookkeeper was asking how she should “break it” to a small business owner that her charges for cleaning up books have now totaled $12,000. I’m not paying anyone $12,000 to perfect my digital books!) 

Also, if you actually need a manual so that you know what the eff you’re doing, you have to buy a “For Dummies” or similar. There is no way to troubleshoot or even just know how it differs from desktop without an unofficial manual. If you call, they try to upsell and a troubleshoot call costs money. 
 

If dh were younger, I would be looking for a different system altogether but it’s moot now; we will just keep using and hating QBs until he closes the company. 

I hate QBO with a passion!! They've removed functionality while increasing the price, and support is impossible to get. They used to have excellent support years ago. Our company is modernizing a legacy accounting package, so I will eventually migrate to that, but I do like the ability to process credit cards from within QBO. 

[Clarita]

XM Radio was really hard to cancel. I got lucky and a year after I wanted to cancel my CC expired and I changed to a whole new CC (for other reasons). I felt that was the only way I unsubscribed myself from that. I remember making multiple cancel this phone calls. Somehow I remember it wouldn't let me delete my CC information unless I entered a different one.  

[teachermom2834]

When my dd was a tween she got really into cooking and baking and watching Food Network. Somewhere I saw an ad for a year of Food Network magazine for $12 or something like that and I signed her up. Well she enjoyed it and made some recipes but by the time it came to renew she was moving onto other interests and the renewal price was something like $75. It was a bear to cancel. Couldn’t cancel online. The number you had to call would just ring and ring. You could request cancellation through email but it never went anywhere that actually canceled it. We kept getting the magazine. Somehow my dh got a different number and got through and thought he had it cancelled and they only refunded $3 to my credit card and kept sending it. We did finally get it canceled after several months of phone calls but I swore I’d never do the magazine thing again.