200K 911 calls!

[Scarlett]

I can't imagine what it would take before I would have the nerve to call 911 after I was told to evacuate.  I am just....gobsmacked.

[Kassia]

I don't know...some people might not be able to afford to evacuate or maybe can't due to physical/mental issues.  I'd hate to judge. 

My dad used to live in South Florida and refused to evacuate just because he was a stubborn old man who thought he was invincible.  It really scared me.  He was fortunate and wasn't ever in a direct hit. 

 

[Murphy101]

29 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I don't know...some people might not be able to afford to evacuate or maybe can't due to physical/mental issues.  I'd hate to judge. 

My dad used to live in South Florida and refused to evacuate just because he was a stubborn old man who thought he was invincible.  It really scared me.  He was fortunate and wasn't ever in a direct hit. 

 

This. States really didn’t change squat about how to handle evacuations after Katrina. We want to think it would have caused major changes but… nope. 

[Katy]

In this case people who weren’t told to evacuate were trapped, hurt, and killed too. 

[Scarlett]

31 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I don't know...some people might not be able to afford to evacuate or maybe can't due to physical/mental issues.  I'd hate to judge. 

My dad used to live in South Florida and refused to evacuate just because he was a stubborn old man who thought he was invincible.  It really scared me.  He was fortunate and wasn't ever in a direct hit. 

 

OK I must have missed that there were people who were not told to evacuate.

[Scarlett]

Also I completely understand people being too stubborn to evacuate. I guess I can’t understand being too stubborn to evacuate and then calling 911 when things get tough. 
 

I do legit believe there are people who felt they had no way to evacuate. I do feel very bad for those people. I wonder though how many of those people were actually living right in harms way. I really do not know.

[catz]

Not everyone has a vehicle.  Not everyone has the funds to pick up and leave.  Some people are disabled or mentally ill.  Not everyone knows how to  locate and navigate services they may be eligible for.  This was a planning issue.

[Murphy101]

 

50 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I can't imagine what it would take before I would have the nerve to call 911 after I was told to evacuate.  I am just....gobsmacked.

I know exactly what it would take. It would take wanting to live more than feel stupid.  People literally suffer every day and even die because they are worried or feel ashamed that they will seem silly or stupid.

I’m gobsmacked by THAT even knowing there’s been times in my life when I was that person.

And also, it’s not as simple as they knew and could have just left and didn’t.

[Scarlett]

Ok but 200 K 911 calls? 
Even allowing for people who don’t have what it took to leave for whatever reason. You really think there were 200,000 of those people?

[Murphy101]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Also I completely understand people being too stubborn to evacuate. I guess I can’t understand being too stubborn to evacuate and then calling 911 when things get tough. 
 

I do legit believe there are people who felt they had no way to evacuate. I do feel very bad for those people. I wonder though how many of those people were actually living right in harms way. I really do not know.

Look at how many people can’t afford even a $200 unexpected expense and have to wait until their paycheck hits at midnight to go buy groceries. It’s literally millions of people.  And there really is no where near the social supports for them that many think there is. In fact, they are likely just doing that well bc of what little safety net they have scrounged up. I can absolutely believe it.

[Murphy101]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Ok but 200 K 911 calls? 
Even allowing for people who don’t have what it took to leave for whatever reason. You really think there were 200,000 of those people?

I think there probably 400k but 200k were able to make a call to 911. That’s what I think. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Murphy101 said:

I think there probably 400k but 200k were able to make a call to 911. That’s what I think. 

OK. Then I will just shut up. They just seems absolutely insane to me. I guess I was thinking that the people who would have been in danger would have known how to evacuate.OK. Then I will just shut up. They just seems absolutely insane to me. I guess I was thinking that the people who would have been in danger would have known how to evacuate.

[Murphy101]

Just now, Scarlett said:

OK. Then I will just shut up. They just seems absolutely insane to me. I guess I was thinking that the people who would have been in danger would have known how to evacuate.OK. Then I will just shut up. They just seems absolutely insane to me. I guess I was thinking that the people who would have been in danger would have known how to evacuate.

I am not mad at you. I don’t think you need to shut up.  You are saying something that I bet millions of Americans are also saying. It’s hard to watch and it’s hard to understand and it’s hard to believe.

I don’t think anything bad of you for your posts. I’m sorry if I came off aggressive. 

[gardenmom5]

35 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I don't know...some people might not be able to afford to evacuate or maybe can't due to physical/mental issues.  I'd hate to judge. 

My dad used to live in South Florida and refused to evacuate just because he was a stubborn old man who thought he was invincible.  It really scared me.  He was fortunate and wasn't ever in a direct hit. 

 

This.   I recall someone on another thread mentioning those with Alzheimer patients who are still at home, or severely affected with ASD who are still at home - and taking them out of their "familiar space" is problematic.  I have a friend whose son was basically a hermit for several years due to schizophrenia.  going to different places during that time would trigger panic attacks.  Even when he was less affected - my house was one of the very few places to which he would venture.

And that's assuming people have the money and resources to pull out.  some can't go somewhere that will take animals, and don't want to leave their pets behind.  One woman posted a clip of her boyfriend rescuing a cat that had managed to get on top of the external HVAC unit (fortunately raised about 2' off the ground) at his parent's house.  The water (not including the waves) was above his ankles.  They don't know to whom the cat belongs - but it didn't fight him (though did try to climb up on his shoulder as he walked away from its previous and exposed perch.).  It's inside out of the elements now and reportedly much happier.

Then there were the "oh, it's all hype",  some because they've never experienced a hurricane, and some because they've become cynical to warnings over the years.

and then the thrill seekers (I saw video footage of them in the water ahead of the eye, but they were dealing with wind, waves, and rain.  They can wait their turn for rescue.

[Ausmumof3]

We evacuated from bushfire and then police wouldn’t let anyone back in for days even after the main front passed. DH was able to get in a back way, otherwise livestock etc wouldn’t have been fed. They have changed the response protocol because there was so much anger over that but it would make me more hesitant about evacuating in future.

Its interesting how much insurance has changed everyone’s perspective on things. Historically you stood your ground and protected your things or you lost everything. Now the default is protect life and rebuild property later. I’m personally worried that a combination of climate change, poor building planning, failing economies is going to make insurance unaffordable for many people so we will be back to that choice. 

[Brittany1116]

I don't know that there are 200k distinct individuals who called 911 but maybe there were 200k cumulative calls, many being repeats? 

[stephanier.1765]

There was a guy in the news who is in a mandatory evacuation zone. His excuse for not leaving is that he has a one year old and doesn't want to travel 10-12 hours in a car with a one year old. I was definitely gobsmacked over that one. Having a one year old is the best reason ever to evacuate. What's he going to do when his home starts flooding? Not call 911 because his baby is napping? Call 911 and have people risk their lives for his one year old that he didn't want to spend 10 hours in a car with? Ugh! That was a yelling at the TV moment.

[stephanier.1765]

13 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

This.   I recall someone on another thread mentioning those with Alzheimer patients who are still at home, or severely affected with ASD who are still at home - and taking them out of their "familiar space" is problematic.  I have a friend whose son was basically a hermit for several years due to schizophrenia.  going to different places during that time would trigger panic attacks.  Even when he was less affected - my house was one of the very few places to which he would venture.

And that's assuming people have the money and resources to pull out.  some can't go somewhere that will take animals, and don't want to leave their pets behind.  One woman posted a clip of her boyfriend rescuing a cat that had managed to get on top of the external HVAC unit (fortunately raised about 2' off the ground) at his parent's house.  The water (not including the waves) was above his ankles.  They don't know to whom the cat belongs - but it didn't fight him (though did try to climb up on his shoulder as he walked away from its previous and exposed perch.).  It's inside out of the elements now and reportedly much happier.

Then there were the "oh, it's all hype",  some because they've never experienced a hurricane, and some because they've become cynical to warnings over the years.

and then the thrill seekers (I saw video footage of them in the water ahead of the eye, but they were dealing with wind, waves, and rain.  They can wait their turn for rescue.

There are shelters here that take animals. You have to care for them but they do accept pets...well, cats and dogs. I don't think other pets qualified.

[73349]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ok but 200 K 911 calls? 
Even allowing for people who don’t have what it took to leave for whatever reason. You really think there were 200,000 of those people?

Florida has a population of ~21,500,000. (The Cape Coral-Ft. Myers area alone has over 300K. Orlando is over 300K more.) A major hurricane just washed over the entire center of the state. One percent of the population needed to call 911.

Edited September 29, 2022 by 73349

[stephanier.1765]

1 minute ago, 73349 said:

Florida has a population of ~21,500,000. A major hurricane just washed over the entire center of it. One percent of the population needed to call 911.

I don't think that's fair. I think it would be more fair to see where the bulk of the calls originated. Most of us weren't hit the way the southwestern part of the state was.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I can't imagine what it would take before I would have the nerve to call 911 after I was told to evacuate.  I am just....gobsmacked.

Where did you find that number?  I did a search and all I could find is an article quoting DeSantis mentioning “hundreds of calls”. 

[Katy]

The first few confirmed deaths were in the Orlando area, where people evacuated to. And the storm surge was 18’, which was far more than the 12’ most channels were forecasting. And don’t forget that the storm was supposed to weaken (it didn’t), and go North (it didn’t), which left the people there to evacuate at the last moment. 

[Harriet Vane]

It's really not that simple. As another poster mentioned, poverty and health conditions are factors among others.

I posted in another thread about my worry for one of my dearest friends who chose not to evacuate from St. Augustine. Her husband has dementia. Not just a little bit of dementia. And they're both in their 80s. It's really not so simple to evacuate. And I am extremely thankful that our fears for her safety were for naught, as she is doing just fine. 

[Faith-manor]

1 hour ago, catz said:

Not everyone has a vehicle.  Not everyone has the funds to pick up and leave.  Some people are disabled or mentally ill.  Not everyone knows how to  locate and navigate services they may be eligible for.  This was a planning issue.

I was just thinking of how many colleges would NOT have a plan for evacuating students who do not have cars. The number of freshmen this year arriving on college campuses without transportation is absolutely epic because the cost of used cara and insurance is through the roof. I guarantee you my local university had no kind of workable plan. They never do, even for simple things.

Not to mention folks that have meds that have to be done by infusion and can't be stuck for hours on the freeway, people who have recently been hospitalized, are recovering from surgery, are dependent on caretakers, and just reiterating that we have a huge portion of the population living paycheck to paycheck. I know a ton of young adults living on ramen noodles and do not have a penny extra to their names. They literally cannot fill their gas tank until the next pay check comes, and they have no money to rent motel/hotel rooms. They also have employers who will fire them if they evacuate, the storm goes around so the city is not hit, and then they aren't there for work the next day. And they can't be without work. The working poor are always take the brunt of the living hell of these disasters.

I don't judge. I do sure as hell worry about them!

[Katy]

9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I was just thinking of how many colleges would NOT have a plan for evacuating students who do not have cars. The number of freshmen this year arriving on college campuses without transportation is absolutely epic because the cost of used cara and insurance is through the roof. I guarantee you my local university had no kind of workable plan. They never do, even for simple things.

Not to mention folks that have meds that have to be done by infusion and can't be stuck for hours on the freeway, people who have recently been hospitalized, are recovering from surgery, are dependent on caretakers, and just reiterating that we have a huge portion of the population living paycheck to paycheck. I know a ton of young adults living on ramen noodles and do not have a penny extra to their names. They literally cannot fill their gas tank until the next pay check comes, and they have no money to rent motel/hotel rooms. They also have employers who will fire them if they evacuate, the storm goes around so the city is not hit, and then they aren't there for work the next day. And they can't be without work. The working poor are always take the brunt of the living hell of these disasters.

I don't judge. I do sure as hell worry about them!

The college thing.. I sww one news report that said a local college’s hurricane safety plan was to have the kids sit in the stairwell. Storms can stall and stay in the same place for 3 days. The whole idea of college kids staying in a stairwell for a storm is insane. 

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Also I completely understand people being too stubborn to evacuate. I guess I can’t understand being too stubborn to evacuate and then calling 911 when things get tough. 
 

I do legit believe there are people who felt they had no way to evacuate. I do feel very bad for those people. I wonder though how many of those people were actually living right in harms way. I really do not know.

People who think they are invincible really do show how frail we are as people in that we have the capacity to make self-destructive decisions. 

Like you said, there are also people who couldn’t afford to evacuate, or who had no where to go, or maybe they didn’t have enough gas in their car, or they have horses to care for, or any number of  things. I will say, though, that if someone nearby  was having a heart attack, or had a tree fall on them while they were cleaning up, or was the victim of a violent crime, or about to drown, you bet your bootie I’d be on the phone to 911, regardless of whether or not the people involved were there by choice. I think those vulnerabilities are  part of being frail humans, too. All this to say that I’m not surprised. I hope help arrives (power companies, first responders, etc.)  from other areas soon so people living there and working through this can get a break, care for their own families and hopefully get a bit of rest. 
 

ETA - I think the consensus is that pretty much everyone on the west coast of the state was in danger from a direct hit, and as narrow as Fl is, I imagine the entire state was/is at risk for flooding. Both coasts are by definition, at sea level, the mean elevation is just 100 ft. above with the max being in the neighborhood of 350, IIRC. In contrast, my state has a mean elevation around 500 feet with the highest elevation being over 6K and the lowest being sea level. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by TechWife

[bookbard]

People don't get vaccinated for covid, then beg for it when they get sick. While I agree a huge amount of people can't afford to leave, there's always those people who say 'it won't happen to me'. We have campaigns every year about not driving into flood waters. Every single time it floods there's someone who drives into floodwater, often with their whole family, and someone dies - most recently a five year old. There was one a case a few years ago of a guy who drove around all the barriers and people with waving arms in order to go through the flood water . . . and the whole family died. 

[teachermom2834]

I don’t know. My ds lives two miles inland in Sarasota and he wasn’t supposed to evacuate. If that storm had turned ten miles more north he could have needed 911 and he would have been following the official directions. 
 

It was a very bad very large storm. It effected people who were not told to evacuate and many that were in kind of gray areas where they were told to evacuate if they felt vulnerable but stay if they felt their structure was safe (I watched a lot of press conferences). A lot of areas didn’t get a long lead time. 
 

Now I have definitely been the person saying I didn’t understand people not evacuating as I saw the aftermath. But having watched this one closely since the weekend I am positive there were thousands and thousands of people in peril who did not ignore orders. Or who made reasonable decision based on the info they were given.

Edited September 30, 2022 by teachermom2834

[Tanaqui]

Scarlett, people make bad choices all the time. Everybody does it, even you. Even me! It's just that usually our bad choices don't kill us, so we go on and make more of them, each time increasingly convinced that our choices were just fine because, welp, hasn't killed us yet.

You can't just say "Well, that's a silly idiot, let's let them drown" and I certainly wouldn't want them to sit there and say "Well, this is my own damn fault, I guess I'll just suck it up!"

And that's putting aside all the people who would have evacuated but had compelling reasons not to, or who really weren't able to.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

There are also people calling 911 to have welfare checks done and people who call 911 multiple times. I’ve seen official Facebook posts by some affected counties asking people to call their non emergency number for welfare checks instead of 911.

I would very much love to live in Florida. I have an ASD son and 3 dogs that would be difficult to evacuate with, so I stay in New York and visit my sister six or seven times a year.  Some people cannot evacuate and frankly we need better systems, whether it is bussing or better shelters or whatever.  I think of all the elderly people we carry out of their homes and put on a stretcher just for doctors appointments or dialysis and wonder how they could possibly evacuate.  

On the flip side, people call 911 on a daily basis to ask about road closure or when the fireworks start or how many inches of snow we are supposed to get.  911 is abused daily; calling for help, even if rescuers cannot get to you, isn’t an abuse.

[Katy]

17 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle Again said:

There are also people calling 911 to have welfare checks done and people who call 911 multiple times. I’ve seen official Facebook posts by some affected counties asking people to call their non emergency number for welfare checks instead of 911.

I would very much love to live in Florida. I have an ASD son and 3 dogs that would be difficult to evacuate with, so I stay in New York and visit my sister six or seven times a year.  Some people cannot evacuate and frankly we need better systems, whether it is bussing or better shelters or whatever.  I think of all the elderly people we carry out of their homes and put on a stretcher just for doctors appointments or dialysis and wonder how they could possibly evacuate.  

On the flip side, people call 911 on a daily basis to ask about road closure or when the fireworks start or how many inches of snow we are supposed to get.  911 is abused daily; calling for help, even if rescuers cannot get to you, isn’t an abuse.

If you decide to go, go inland from the coast in as high/No flooding an area as you can find (though 24” of rain will flood anywhere), look for newer masonry construction, hurricane shutters, in a good neighborhood, with a professionally installed generator with a cage welded in place around it to prevent theft. 

I’ve heard they’re desperate for special ed teachers, but I have no idea how that translates to pay. I imagine housing costs are similar or more, food costs less, and jobs pay less than upstate NY, but that’s a guess because I haven’t directly compared in more than 20 years.

[GoVanGogh]

National news interviewed an older couple that didn’t evacuate. The husband’s cancer has spread to his spine and paralyzed him. He is confined to a hospital bed in their living room. She put a life vest on him and covered him in a tarp because she couldn’t do anything more. That totally broke my heart. Thankfully, they are fine. 
Given that the majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, they can’t afford to take time off work, pay for transportation and lodging, etc. 
I have family in Houston and they were very far out of the evacuation area for Harvey, yet they ended up with water up to their doors because that storm system just sat over the area and the storm drains backed up. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

If you decide to go, go inland from the coast in as high/No flooding an area as you can find (though 24” of rain will flood anywhere), look for newer masonry construction, hurricane shutters, in a good neighborhood, with a professionally installed generator with a cage welded in place around it to prevent theft. 

I’ve heard they’re desperate for special ed teachers, but I have no idea how that translates to pay. I imagine housing costs are similar or more, food costs less, and jobs pay less than upstate NY, but that’s a guess because I haven’t directly compared in more than 20 years.

It’s going to be a retirement thing I think. DH hates heat and humidity(gives him migraines) but my EDS makes me more cold intolerant every year. My sister actually moved out of Tampa area to another state three months ago and is already moving back because her family loves it so much there and her husband works remotely.  But food seems to cost more and housing is far more than what it is here in NY. Teacher pay is definitely less and paramedic pay is variable. Some companies pay more some pay less. fortunately Florida takes all my certifications no problem and I could get a job offer probably in 24 hours.

I mean, not like I’ve investigated all of this or anything…
 

[Brittany1116]

We evacuated Irma in 2017. We are pretty far north and all the rest of Florida left as much as 7-8 days before we did as we waited to see where it tracked and if it maintained size. We have multiple highways in our area and the delays for that week were HUGE. My husband's 7 minute drive to work turned to 30+. Gas was almost nonexistent. We knew people who weren't finding hotel rooms until they got to KENTUCKY. We left and stayed with family in Tennessee. The 9 hour drive took like 17. We waited until all was clear to return. On the way back home, we ran through plans A, B, C, and D and barely made it back before the LAST bridge to our town was closed due to historic river flooding. I had to 3 point turn more than once in a minivan with kids in the back on narrow roads with water visibly filling the banks by the minute as we got to bridges just as they were being closed off by police, as our navigators in their homes elsewhere directed us via phone as they watched the state and county updates for closures and redirects. Gas in much of GA on the way back was cash only, $20-30 limits, because of the strain they were feeling. It's not just that evacuating is inconvenient, it can be far, far harder and more expensive and time and resource and emotionally consuming than people think. There were few mandatory evacs this time, and unfortunately not for the right areas. Trying to get St Pete to evac in the last hour would likely have resulted in a higher death rate as the roadways became clogged and people found themselves trapped in cars in those winds and water. For a lot of people, sheltering in place made infinitely more sense. The fact that it jumped categories overnight was a factor. A lot of people woke up to a worse scenario than anyone expected. Everyone likes to think they would know exactly how they would respond to something, but you really don't know until you have to.

[Clarita]

I used to be appalled to about people not evacuating, I do believe there are stupid people out there. Then I also in Santa Barbara when a land slide happened near Santa Barbara. Usually the neighborhoods that get the most destruction are also the poorer or poorest neighborhoods in the area; in other words the people who don't feel like or can't just pick up and leave everything with somewhere else to go. A few classmates and I asked why these people keep living in this place where landslides happen "almost any time it rains". I got the best response from someone which is "Check the housing prices in that area, it's not like those people can move to Hope Ranch."  

[Scarlett]

I think i was envisioning people on the coast who have expensive properties.

[City Mouse]

I’m a former Houstonian who now lives in wild fire country and faced evacuations for both. There are lots of reasons that people won’t or can’t evacuate, but I do think there are many people who are simply clueless. My DH is in law enforcement, which means I have faced those situations alone with my kids because he has to be out closing freeways during hurricanes, helping other people while out house was flooding, driving  through wildfires to make sure other people were safe. One of his former co-workers died on duty during hurricane Harvey. 

It is really a no-win situation for everyone, but I do get aggravated when I hear of people who needlessly and carelessly endangered the lives of others because of their own poor choices. 

[GoVanGogh]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think i was envisioning people on the coast who have expensive properties.

In my area, the people living in expensive houses are least likely to able to afford to evacuate because they are house rich and cash poor. Bad decisions, yes, for buying more house than they can afford, but it does seem to be common. Florida also has a large elderly population, people who have moved to warmer climates in their retirement. Their finances probably runs to both extremes. 

[Rachel]

I can’t speak to the number of calls, but I can understand why some people don’t evacuate. My grandparents live in SE Texas. My great-grandmother was in her 90’s when Rita was about to hit, they chose not to evacuate. They did get nana from her assisted living facility.   It normally takes 4 hours to drive to my aunt’s house where they could evacuate to, during the evacuation process when everyone was leaving, it was more like 12-15 hours. With bumper to bumper traffic they knew the heat plus humidity of sitting in the car would be worse than sheltering at home.  Plus nana would have been very uncomfortable in the car and they wouldn’t have been able to refuel easily when they eventually ran out of gas. 
 

Where their house was, they were unlikely to experience flooding. However they did lose power for several days and did have some roof damage and big trees down. At home they had a generator and plenty of food to manage. It was less than ideal but they had to make the best of a bad situation.

[Heartstrings]

I know lots of people weren’t able to evacuate for a variety of very good reason, health, money, hurricane taking a weird turn, etc.  But I was watching TikTok the day before it hit and there were tons of videos of people saying they weren’t going to evacuate just because they didn’t want to.  They could have left, had the means to have left, and decided not to.  Those loud mouths contribute strongly to the rest of the country not feeling sympathetic to those that stayed.   Especially when the next day they post videos about how they “made a mistake”.  
It also hard to feel terribly sympathetic to people posting videos of their water front properties, 2 boats on their private dock, RV, and 4 four wheelers, with able bodied, employed adults and a couple of kids.  I get being house poor, but some of it is really reaching, especially matched with bragging videos about how you never evacuate “because the news is always fear mongering”.

 It’s a case where a few jack wads really kill it for everyone. When someone says they can’t believe so many people stayed they aren’t thinking of a little old couple.  They are thinking about the 20 something dude jet skying as the storm rolled in.  

Edited September 30, 2022 by Heartstrings

[Melissa in Australia]

7 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

We evacuated from bushfire and then police wouldn’t let anyone back in for days even after the main front passed. DH was able to get in a back way, otherwise livestock etc wouldn’t have been fed. They have changed the response protocol because there was so much anger over that but it would make me more hesitant about evacuating in future.

Its interesting how much insurance has changed everyone’s perspective on things. Historically you stood your ground and protected your things or you lost everything. Now the default is protect life and rebuild property later. I’m personally worried that a combination of climate change, poor building planning, failing economies is going to make insurance unaffordable for many people so we will be back to that choice. 

 Nearly all People in this area in the 2020 fires left. Everyone had drummed into them that leave and rebuild, that is what you have insurance for etc... But now most of the houses  that were burned down are not rebuilt. The insurance doesn't cover enough to meet the new changed bell ratings or the rapid increase of cost to rebuild.  2 years later There are still lots of families living in caravans, campers and temp Mobile homes on their properties, some even still in tents. Everyone is now aware that in a bushfire the fire brigade isn't going to try save your house and insurance doesn't cover to rebuild under the new ever changing fire regulations. Some areas now have been zoned that they Cannot be rebuilt. So you bet that next time way more people will stay to defend their houses. 

[Ausmumof3]

Just now, Melissa in Australia said:

 Nearly all People in this area in the 2020 fires left. Everyone had drummed into them that leave and rebuild, that is what you have insurance for etc... But now most of the houses  that were burned down are not rebuilt. The insurance doesn't cover enough to meet the new changed bell ratings or the rapid increase of cost to rebuild.  2 years later There are still lots of families living in caravans, campers and temp Mobile homes on their properties, some even still in tents. Everyone is now aware that in a bushfire the fire brigade isn't going to try save your house and insurance doesn't cover to rebuild under the new ever changing fire regulations. Some areas now have been zoned that they Cannot be rebuilt. So you bet that next time way more people will stay to defend their houses. 

Yep! I totally get the focus on saving lives but the reality is in a bushfire the local volunteer brigades  don’t have the equipment or resources to be everywhere.

[Shoeless]

6 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think i was envisioning people on the coast who have expensive properties.

My mom lives on the east coast in a very cheap property.  There are actually quite a few cheap properties along beaches. If you want ocean front, yeah, you have to pay for that. But if you go just a few miles inland, the cost goes down dramatically. 

Whenever one of these storms hits, I'm like "Are you going to evacuate?!" and she smugly says it's not needed because "We have a generator, we have hurricane shutters, we're 5 miles from the water".  Well, that won't help if your roof gets torn off or all the canals flood with storm water.  These storms are big enough to span the entire state so 5 miles from the ocean doesn't mean diddly. 

I think this last storm scared her a little, though. A tornado touched down near her and tore a couple buildings apart. She still won't evacuate when the next one comes, though. 

We had Harvey here and we're over 2 hours from the coast. That storm scared the heck out of me.  I don't ever want to go through that again. 

[Carrie12345]

For me, my brain gets stuck on the people who intentionally choose to stay, and they are very real.  
They make rescue slower for those who are actually at the mercy of nature and available assistance. They increase the cost and stretch the resources. They literally put other lives in more danger.  
And for what? Things?!  Once you’re past the best prep you can do, there is nothing left to do. You can’t hold your roof down, hold water back, stop mold without equipment and electricity, put out electrical fires, drive your vehicles to dry ground, blah, blah, blah.

On top of that, being rescue-evac’ed is not less hard than planned evac. You’ll have fewer options of what to take, how to handle pets, and perhaps even where to go. You’ll likely be without personal transportation.

Playing odds, when you have even the most basic of options, does not make sense to me. Leave the resources for those who will need them most.  
If I could sleep in my car with 5 kids and a herd of pets at a dry truck stop, I’d take that over crossing my fingers and risking their lives, my neighbors’ lives, and rescuers’ lives.

And I think we’d all have a lot more empathy and concern for those with fewer options without having bad choice makers clouding our judgment. 

[Rosie_0801]

4 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yep! I totally get the focus on saving lives but the reality is in a bushfire the local volunteer brigades  don’t have the equipment or resources to be everywhere.

Yeah. Where I grew up, the local brigade closed down from a lack of volunteers.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

For me, my brain gets stuck on the people who intentionally choose to stay, and they are very real.  
They make rescue slower for those who are actually at the mercy of nature and available assistance. They increase the cost and stretch the resources. They literally put other lives in more danger.  
And for what? Things?!  Once you’re past the best prep you can do, there is nothing left to do. You can’t hold your roof down, hold water back, stop mold without equipment and electricity, put out electrical fires, drive your vehicles to dry ground, blah, blah, blah.

On top of that, being rescue-evac’ed is not less hard than planned evac. You’ll have fewer options of what to take, how to handle pets, and perhaps even where to go. You’ll likely be without personal transportation.

Playing odds, when you have even the most basic of options, does not make sense to me. Leave the resources for those who will need them most.  
If I could sleep in my car with 5 kids and a herd of pets at a dry truck stop, I’d take that over crossing my fingers and risking their lives, my neighbors’ lives, and rescuers’ lives.

And I think we’d all have a lot more empathy and concern for those with fewer options without having bad choice makers clouding our judgment. 

Yes, this is where I come down on the matter too.  

[pinball]

14 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I can't imagine what it would take before I would have the nerve to call 911 after I was told to evacuate.  I am just....gobsmacked.

Where did you see this?

[Murphy101]

13 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I’m personally worried that a combination of climate change, poor building planning, failing economies is going to make insurance unaffordable for many people so we will be back to that choice. 

I worry about this too but I also think it should be that way.  Fact is there’s going to be areas that are not feasible to rebuild due to high risk of potential loss again. 

6 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

 Nearly all People in this area in the 2020 fires left. Everyone had drummed into them that leave and rebuild, that is what you have insurance for etc... But now most of the houses  that were burned down are not rebuilt. The insurance doesn't cover enough to meet the new changed bell ratings or the rapid increase of cost to rebuild.  2 years later There are still lots of families living in caravans, campers and temp Mobile homes on their properties, some even still in tents. Everyone is now aware that in a bushfire the fire brigade isn't going to try save your house and insurance doesn't cover to rebuild under the new ever changing fire regulations. Some areas now have been zoned that they Cannot be rebuilt. So you bet that next time way more people will stay to defend their houses. 

And I think if insurance is going to claim to cover a rebuild - then it should.  I feel like much of insurance is a scam bc it very often doesn’t actually replace the loss. And most people do not understand they are very under insured. 

[Murphy101]

Also… about people who seem to blow off and say they are staying because they aren’t scared or whatever….

I want people to understand that the biggest lies people tell are the ones they tel themselves. Especially when they feel or think they don’t really have a choice or don’t want to look stupid or scared.

The young or old man who is broke and thinks he has no where to go often isn’t going to say that. Nope. He is going to tell himself this is all just hype and he is going to be just fine. The woman with crippling anxiety and a couple kids isn’t going to tell you she just can’t handle the amount of overwhelm so she’s staying home. She doesn’t want to be perceived as silly and a bad mother.

And yes it’s all just stuff.   But most people have always been told or had it implied that stuff is worth more than their life since the day they were born.

[mommyoffive]

Many have criticized 'non-evacuators' who haven't left their homes for Hurricane Ian — but some TikTokers say they can't afford to leave (msn.com)

 

Yes, money and logistics make it so hard for people to leave.  In my super privileged thought I would leave.  But I have money and we are healthy and don't have super challenging issues to make leaving really hard. I 100% understand all the reasons some could not even entertain the thought of leaving and that breaks my heart.