WWYD “joke” edition

[Melissa Louise]

51 minutes ago, saraha said:

Haha I wish, she lives an hour away and has the tshirt at her house 

Oh no!

You forgot the kid? 🙂

[saraha]

Ok, so I called her and told her that I wasn’t sure that sis would find it funny and since we don’t see each other very often, I didn’t want to do anything that might spoil the day. At first she tried to convince me it would indeed be funny. Then she went to “well your kids are the ones who wanted tacos” like she didn’t heavily suggest it and they were like yeah, we like tacos.
THEN she went on to, we’ll I have the shirt here and you can look at it when you get here and decide to let him do it. Like he is in on it with her and I am not “letting him”. 🙄

Then she went to well, I have it here and if she starts complaining he can go put it on and tell her to suck it up.🙄🙄🙄

[saraha]

And now my sister is blowing up my phone because apparently my mom hung up with me and called her and told her the menu, about the shirt and that my kids picked it on purpose to get at her. Oh and that she got her a turkey lunchable

eta: and she told her she called the kids back and told them to pick something different but they wouldn’t 

Edited November 23, 2021 by saraha

[Selkie]

3 minutes ago, saraha said:

And now my sister is blowing up my phone because apparently my mom hung up with me and called her and told her the menu, about the shirt and that my kids picked it on purpose to get at her. Oh and that she got her a turkey lunchable

eta: and she told her she called the kids back and told them to pick something different but they wouldn’t 

Stay home. Seriously. Just reading about your mom’s behavior makes my skin crawl. Don’t subject your kids or yourself to that.

[Corraleno]

2 minutes ago, saraha said:

And now my sister is blowing up my phone because apparently my mom hung up with me and called her and told her the menu, about the shirt and that my kids picked it on purpose to get at her. Oh and that she got her a turkey lunchable

You don't have to play games with malicious liars. The fact you don't have a lot of other family members doesn't mean you have to put up with being abused. I get it — I don't have a lot of family either, but cutting my NPD mother out of my life was the best thing I ever did for my mental heath. 

[Harriet Vane]

Tell your sister the truth. Do not let your mother control this narrative. Send her screen shots of your texts.

And then seriously don't go. This is bullying behavior. Shame on your mom.

[Junie]

Wow.  I am so sorry.

Is there a way that you and your sister can get together without your mom.  (Probably not.)

 

My solution would probably be to do both -- traditional Thanksgiving dinner for one meal (lunch?) and tacos for the other (dinner?).  And if your sister wants to leave before tacos I wouldn't blame her one bit.

[MrsMommy]

Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky, but I would stay home. No way would I let my children be used like that.

[Indigo Blue]

Don’t be so hard on yourself. You’re doing the right thing. You’re not an awful sister. 

[GoodGrief3]

Your mom is lying about your kids. This is so wrong. I would not go.

[fairfarmhand]

Call your sister, tell her what really happened. The text stuff just doesn’t work with complicated situations 

[importswim]

That's not a joke. It's a passive aggressive swipe and I'd definitely stay as far away from that as I could.

[importswim]

43 minutes ago, saraha said:

And now my sister is blowing up my phone because apparently my mom hung up with me and called her and told her the menu, about the shirt and that my kids picked it on purpose to get at her. Oh and that she got her a turkey lunchable

eta: and she told her she called the kids back and told them to pick something different but they wouldn’t 

I just read this. I'm so sorry. That's a really crappy situation to be in. I agree with the PP's. Call you sister and tell her what actually happened then call your mom and tell her that she can't use your children as an excuse and lie about how things happened just to get back at your sister. 

Unfortunately, in this situation your mom has set it up so that it's easy for them both to be mad at you. Like Rosie said (I wish I could like her post!), it seems like the whole point of the game is that you are ending up in the middle and in the wrong. Your mom isn't respecting your boundaries. This is probably a hill I would die on and not go to Thanksgiving. Much more peaceful at your own house where you can have tacos or traditional, or whatever the heck you want to without a side of passive aggressive.

Hugs to you!

[WildflowerMom]

I would probably send a text to the both (one text, a group text to them both).  Why?  Because if you talk to them on the phone, they will manipulate what you say and spin it when they talk to each other.  
I’d say something like this:   
1) my kids did not choose tacos.  My kids don’t care what we eat.  They said they like tacos when mom asked.  That’s it.  
2)  we will not be joining y’all for thanksgiving.   Have a nice time. 

[importswim]

2 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I would probably send a text to the both (one text, a group text to them both).  Why?  Because if you talk to them on the phone, they will manipulate what you say and spin it when they talk to each other.  
I’d say something like this:   
1) my kids did not choose tacos.  My kids don’t care what we eat.  They said they like tacos when mom asked.  That’s it.  
2)  we will not be joining y’all for thanksgiving.   Have a nice time. 

Yes! I like this better than my suggestion. Very cut and dry. They'll probably still try to engage but remember that you don't have to respond any more than this no matter what is said!

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, saraha said:

And now my sister is blowing up my phone because apparently my mom hung up with me and called her and told her the menu, about the shirt and that my kids picked it on purpose to get at her. Oh and that she got her a turkey lunchable

eta: and she told her she called the kids back and told them to pick something different but they wouldn’t 

 

This is the least surprising thing I could have read on this thread. 100% saw this coming when I saw you were about to call your mom without first sending a text to the correct number for your sister.

Don't go. Just pull out. Tell them both that you love them, but something came up and, unfortunately, you're not going to be able to make Thanksgiving this year after all.

Something DID come up - your mother decided to be a heinous witch for no good reason, and your sister apparently can't see right through her.

[Tap]

Are there any restaurants in the area where you can make reservations for a traditional dinner? Take sis for that, and then back to the house for tacos (or visa versa).  It will take some calls at this late date, but maybe you will get lucky. Tacos don't take long to prep, so if you need to have them either early for lunch or for a late dinner, then you may be able to make plans around that. 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tap

[KungFuPanda]

It's petty and wrong, but I'd be soooo tempted to do a traditional dinner with Sis and her family and tell Mom about it just after the Taco stunt.  "Tacos sound great.  We all had turkey last night."

[HS Mom in NC]

3 hours ago, saraha said:

So no way of getting out of it without making someone mad huh? Darn

Of course not.  In toxic family situations someone is always going to be mad about something.  Better that they're mad at you for doing the morally right thing: not allowing you and/or yours to participate in toxicity rather than you allowing you and/or yours to participate in the toxicity and then crossing your fingers and unrealistically hoping no one will be mad about it. You're too old to believe in that fantasy anymore. Stop.

The best thing to do is not attend. Find a reason not to attend-invent one, be honest about it, whatever, but become a contentious objector to this toxic family war. Be the moral model for your children and put an end by refusing to participate. No matter what you do, you will not be able to control the crazy coming from your mom.  Reread that sentence.  You cannot control, manage, or influence your mother into decent behavior.  She's weaponizing your child against your sister and blaming it on your child-that's sick.  That's at best bat shit crazy and at worst it's evil. Do.not.go.  You owe it to every family member you have to not participate in this anymore.

Tell them you're not coming.  Don't wait for their response.  Hang up, stop texting, don't answer the phone, don't answer emails.  They're going to be pissed.  You're going to have to get used to that, but then you really already are, aren't you?  They've always been pissed about something and they're always going to be pissed about something, but at least you'll have a clear conscious if you stay home, keep your kids out of the line of fire, and stay out of the toxic war.

Edited November 23, 2021 by HS Mom in NC

[Ausmumof3]

I’d tell your mum you won’t allow him to do it so she can be made at you not your son. Or maybe I’d have a safe socially distanced thanksgiving at home.

[Alte Veste Academy]

2 hours ago, saraha said:

My mom and sister are the only family I have. We only get together on major holidays and one day during the summer.
My mom is hosting and making every bit of the food so she is absolutely on the right to choose the menu, however she does this because the first time she went untraditional 10 years ago my sis complained and it’s be “on” ever since

2 hours ago, saraha said:

So I chickened out on calling my sister and texted her never mind, I’m going to be a big girl and tell mom we’re not doing it. It’s not funny it’s mean. 

When dinner is over I’m calling my mom.  
 

Two drama queens in the same house even for one day is exhausting.

 

2 hours ago, saraha said:

We don’t care what we eat, most of my kids don’t like turkey. My sister is divorced, no kids and doing thanksgiving foods for her seems like it would be a curtesy, but this feud has gone on for years now and somehow my family is the pawn

 

1 hour ago, saraha said:

And now my sister is blowing up my phone because apparently my mom hung up with me and called her and told her the menu, about the shirt and that my kids picked it on purpose to get at her. Oh and that she got her a turkey lunchable

eta: and she told her she called the kids back and told them to pick something different but they wouldn’t 

Your mom got your sister a turkey lunchable? She has been taunting your sister about this for ten years? And you've been enduring this for 10 years? For every major holiday for the past ten years? Your sister too, has shown up for all of these Thanksgiving holidays and been made the butt of jokes? You and your sister need big hugs. It's time to talk to her about this, I think. 

You said that doing Thanksgiving foods would just be a courtesy to your sister, but if none of you really care, why would we not treat our family members with courtesy on Thanksgiving of all days? Nontraditional foods on holidays don't bother me at all, but using them as a weapon...for 10 years?! 

I agree with the people who say bow out, but I'd bow out with sister, not abandon her to be tormented by mom alone. I imagine if your sister shows up and you don't, sister will have the worst Thanksgiving ever, getting yelled at and blamed by your mom as the reason you didn't show up. I'd host Thanksgiving at my house, with ham and a turkey breast or leg for sister and come up with the rest of the menu with her and the kids.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, Harriet Vane said:

Tell your sister the truth. Do not let your mother control this narrative. Send her screen shots of your texts.

And then seriously don't go. This is bullying behavior. Shame on your mom.

Better yet, invite your sister to your house and serve her turkey.  And your mom can have tacos by herself. Your mom is... something else.  That is so mean and manipulative...  your sister needs some TLC after that.

[HS Mom in NC]

Assuming you mean Mommy Dearest and Sis are the two drama queens, I would discourage you from inviting Sis to Thanksgiving.  If she's a drama queen, odds are she's going to focus on "winning" against Mommy Dearest or she'll play the martyr or whatever role suits her if she ditches Mommy Dearest and hangs out with you on Thanksgiving.  You need to detox from the toxicity and just stay home and have lovely family gathering with just your family and any non-toxic non-drama people in your life.  You need some normal to help you start recalibrating family holidays. 

[Matryoshka]

21 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Assuming you mean Mommy Dearest and Sis are the two drama queens, I would discourage you from inviting Sis to Thanksgiving.  If she's a drama queen, odds are she's going to focus on "winning" against Mommy Dearest or she'll play the martyr or whatever role suits her if she ditches Mommy Dearest and hangs out with you on Thanksgiving.  You need to detox from the toxicity and just stay home and have lovely family gathering with just your family and any non-toxic non-drama people in your life.  You need some normal to help you start recalibrating family holidays. 

I don't remember one reference to sis being a drama queen or being a martyr. So she'd like turkey for once on Thanksgiving after her own mother has been not just refusing but taunting her about it for a decade?  And now is flat out being told that her only other family is in on it and laughing at her? She needs a hug, not ostracism.  Mom needs to be left alone with her tacos and to stew in her own vinegar. 

OP, you should absolutely call your sis and tell her that your mother is a lying liar who lies and that you're on her side. It sounds like your mother has been playing the two of you against each other for years now for her own amusement.  Time to form team united front sisters. If you guys have each other's backs, she can't pull this sh*t. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Katy]

3 hours ago, theelfqueen said:

Where the heck do you live? Tacos are for Easter. Lasagna is for Christmas Eve.

Lasagna takes three hours to cook, and 45 minutes to scrub the dishes afterwards. Who has the energy to make lasagna from scratch when you still have a dozen presents to wrap and you need to help Santa with stockings and assembly?

Wait a minute, you’re not one of those people who always has your life so together you have already assembled and wrapped everything and have a premade home-made lasagna in the freezer are you? 

[katilac]

You said y'all only get together about twice a year; I'm assuming you mean your mom, your sister, and your family? One thing I would recommend is to get together with your sister alone (at a non-holiday, non-pressured time) and discover the dynamic when it's just the two of you, or just her and your family. Some of her less positive behavior may diminish greatly when she's not being taunted, belittled, and harassed. 

Don't let your kids take part in her 'jokes' which are not really jokes. Not this time and not ever. 

Also, a slight digression: I think it's such baloney to say that the host needn't have any consideration whatsoever for what the guests would like to eat, when it's a holiday with heavy expectations that people show up, or when it's one of the only times some guests will have the chance to see each other. If the guests refuse to help, then sure, they take what they get. But if the guests are willing to help, why can they not have some of their favorites even if it doesn't fit your planned menu? 

It doesn't have to be on the table on or on display.  Hide it away in the kitchen or a random room if it doesn't suit your theme, lol. I was a special events planner in a former life, and I have a deep and abiding love for themes, so I get that. But if I were doing Taco Thanksgiving, I'd just have the taco bar front and center, and the ham and green beans on the kitchen counter. 

[bluemongoose]

As a person who is often put in the position of your sister...what looks like being all drama or making a big deal or being difficult is actually hurt feelings, frustration, and feeling like nobody notices what is being done to you. I dont know your sister. Maybe she really is difficult. But maybe, just maybe she is just not sure how to be a pleasant member of a family when her family treats her like crap.  I am not saying that is your fault. But the way your mom is lying about you and creating all these problems, you sister may not know you see it, see her, and are on her side. I know how frustrating it is to be the one the mom is always finding joy in hurting and feeling like the siblings participate in it and don't see or don't care or only believe what mom is saying. It doesn't bring out your best when you are treated this way...at least until you finally decide your family is not worth it and you cut them out or learn how to have good boundaries and stay semi part of the family. 

[HS Mom in NC]

3 hours ago, saraha said:

Two drama queens in the same house even for one day is exhausting.

 

4 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I don't remember one reference to sis being a drama queen or being a martyr. 

It wouldn't surprise me if someone who participates in a 10 year war over the Thanksgiving menu is a drama queen. Usually people who aren't drama queens would either stop arguing about the menu because it's not worth it or they'd stop attending because it's not worth it.  If they think arguing and attending are worth it, they're probably drama queens. 

[bluemongoose]

1 minute ago, HS Mom in NC said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if someone who participates in a 10 year war over the Thanksgiving menu is a drama queen. Usually people who aren't drama queens would either stop arguing about the menu because it's not worth it or they'd stop attending because it's not worth it.  If they think arguing and attending are worth it, they're probably drama queens. 

They might be. They might also be a person who doesn't know how to let go and accept there really isn't a family for them and so they keep attending.

[katilac]

6 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I don't remember one reference to sis being a drama queen or being a martyr. So she'd like turkey for once on Thanksgiving after her own mother has been not just refusing but taunting her about it for a decade?  And now is flat out being told that her only other family is in on it and laughing at her? She needs a hug, not ostracism.  Mom needs to be left alone with her tacos and to stew in her own vinegar. 

OP, you should absolutely call your sis and tell her that your mother is a lying liar who lies and that you're on her side. It sounds like your mother has been playing the two of you against each other for years now for her own amusement.  Time to form team united front sisters. If you guys have each other's backs, she can't pull this sh*t. 

I don't know if I'd approach it in this exact manner 😄 but, like I said in my post above, I'd definitely try working on my relationship with my sister, and giving her a chance or two or three to see how it is when mom is out of the equation. I would even be considering talking to a therapist whilst making those attempts, to try and get an objective opinion on her words and actions - because your mom has given both of you a distorted view of normal and acceptable. Online therapy might be a very good choice for this, because you can often send messages in between sessions. 

Don't give up on a positive relationship with your only sibling without a fight. You are both victims of mom's craziness, and so is your relationship. 

[HS Mom in NC]

7 minutes ago, bluemongoose said:

They might be. They might also be a person who doesn't know how to let go and accept there really isn't a family for them and so they keep attending.

If that's the case and she isn't a drama queen, she'd just stop arguing about the menu and accept that her mother is just an obnoxious, unbending, jerk who insists on a non-traditional Thanksgiving for no good reason.  It seems to me, based on what the OP has written, that the Sis is a willing participant in all this and not some poor soul being victimized.

Edited November 23, 2021 by HS Mom in NC

[Rosie_0801]

Considering this quote from page one, Sis doesn't sound like an entirely innocent party.

[quote]My sister, who has her own  narc tendencies, is driving 5 hours the night before and staying at my moms and will drive home on Friday. She would absolutely help with dinner

its a weird power struggle between them, they will fight each other for attention all day and try to one up each other etc. it’s ridiculous [/quote]

[bluemongoose]

1 minute ago, HS Mom in NC said:

If that;s the case and she isn't a drama queen, she'd just stop arguing about the menu and accept that her mother is just ab obnoxious, unbending, jerk who insists on a non-traditional Thanksgiving for no good reason.  It seems to me, based on what the OP has written, that the Sis is a willing participant in all this and not some poor soul being victimized.

Maybe I didnt read close enough. If she is making an actual big deal about it being traditional Thanksgiving, then that is probably pretty drama queen. I thought is was just a family known thing that the sis prefers her traditional Thanksgiving dinner. 

[bluemongoose]

1 minute ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Considering this quote from page one, Sis doesn't sound like an entirely innocent party.

[quote]My sister, who has her own  narc tendencies, is driving 5 hours the night before and staying at my moms and will drive home on Friday. She would absolutely help with dinner

its a weird power struggle between them, they will fight each other for attention all day and try to one up each other etc. it’s ridiculous [/quote]

Missed that. Makes sense why people are saying drama queen. 

[katilac]

5 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if someone who participates in a 10 year war over the Thanksgiving menu is a drama queen. Usually people who aren't drama queens would either stop arguing about the menu because it's not worth it or they'd stop attending because it's not worth it.  If they think arguing and attending are worth it, they're probably drama queens. 

I don't think that's quite fair. It's very hard to give up on being loved and accepted by a parent, and the sister doesn't have any other family. Yes, it would be sensible to not argue about the menu for ten years, but emotions, especially those that originate in childhood trauma, are not always sensible. Melodrama is a possibility, but so is an (admittedly futile) effort to say, "Can't you recognize me this year? When I tell you something is important to me, could you maybe give a nod to that? You change menus every year, do I matter enough to have it be what I like once a decade?" 

If she is a drama queen, but 'just' a drama queen, I would still try to work on the sister-only relationship, without the presence or interference of mom. Learning to deal with drama is a piece of cake compared to learning to deal with someone like her mom. 

2 minutes ago, bluemongoose said:

They might be. They might also be a person who doesn't know how to let go and accept there really isn't a family for them and so they keep attending.

Yep. 

[HS Mom in NC]

OP, I also highly recommend getting some therapy and would go further and say wait to interact with either of them until you get the go ahead from your therapist. You can't navigate this on your own, you need a licensed specialist to help you with this.

[bluemongoose]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

I don't think that's quite fair. It's very hard to give up on being loved and accepted by a parent, and the sister doesn't have any other family. Yes, it would be sensible to not argue about the menu for ten years, but emotions, especially those that originate in childhood trauma, are not always sensible. Melodrama is a possibility, but so is an (admittedly futile) effort to say, "Can't you recognize me this year? When I tell you something is important to me, could you maybe give a nod to that? You change menus every year, do I matter enough to have it be what I like once a decade?" 

If she is a drama queen, but 'just' a drama queen, I would still try to work on the sister-only relationship, without the presence or interference of mom. Learning to deal with drama is a piece of cake compared to learning to deal with someone like her mom. 

Yep. 

You said it better than I could. Thank you. I am not a drama queen myself...but I know I did act badly before I gave up and accepted it. It is hard to know you wont ever be loved by your family and that nobody sees or cares and just blames you for "not being able to just get along." (IE...not be a silent piece of roadkill so the family can enjoy things while they run you over repeatedly while blaming you for not enjoying it.) But yes, at some point you do have to accept it and move on to be healthier. 

[Annie G]

Your mom just threw your kids under the bus.  No way would I be attending that event. 

[Catwoman]

11 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Your mom just threw your kids under the bus.  No way would I be attending that event. 

Yes, that would be the last straw for me, too, even if I had been willing to deal with the drama in the past. There is no way I would tolerate that kind of treatment.

[Alte Veste Academy]

39 minutes ago, Annie G said:

Your mom just threw your kids under the bus.  No way would I be attending that event. 

Holy wow! I missed that because I was focused on the cruelty of the Lunchable! No way, no how.

[Moonhawk]

You've all seen me agonize over my family and holidays, so I have no room for really giving advice, but @saraha (who I just found out is not Sahara like I've always read, oops), let me say that not having to worry about my family drama on Thanksgiving this year feels *so good*. It was crazy hard to pull the trigger and tell them that's what was happening, but this is the first Thanksgiving I've actually looked forward to.

At first I said I wasn't going to make dinner because I was already worn out from the stress of saying no, but after I recovered I am actually kinda excited to make a lot of food on one day, make nothing else for the rest of the weekend, have all the leftovers and none of the drama. Stoked! 

Even if you feel like it's too late to pull the plug on this year (and I don't think it is), I highly recommend you take a break from it next year. Seriously. There will be more years you can watch them bicker over turkey vs tacos (and they will try to turn on you for *gasp* daring to not tune into their attention war for a year), but take one for yourself to just enjoy it with your kids and show them what Thanksgiving is supposed to be like.

[saraha]

I’ll need all ya’lls help unpacking this tomorrow but Thanksgiving is now canceled, and my mother is the most saintly woman on this planet to have put up with two such ungrateful conniving daughters and even though my children are liars, she loves them anyway. 
I just can’t. She went full on crazy and has now left a weird message on my voicemail about how there will be no Thanksgiving but that” she hopes my children have a good day anyway. In my house. With me. And dh. Cause there is no thanksgiving here”

you guys, she tried to blame my kids for all of the mean “jokes” she has played on my sister all these thanksgivings. And that was the clencher. So much ugliness came out tonight, I can’t possibly type it all out.

when she called back after our huge blow up, I was so scared to answer it. Luckily dh just picked it up and said nope, you can talk to her tomorrow if you want. How can she literally make me scared from an hour away?

Edited November 28, 2021 by saraha

[Shoeless]

Yeah, I wouldn't go to any of this. I'd send a short group text like outlined above and then block both their numbers for a few weeks, until everything settled down.

Someone took a swipe at my kid *once* five years ago.  They never did it again because I never gave them another chance.

Stand up for yourself and your kids, op.  You and they deserve better than this.

You have family: it's the people that are living in your home with you. These other people causing problems are just relatives.

[Shoeless]

Oh, and if you need some extra "family", congrats! I'm your new cousin! Our dads are related somewhere down the line; genealogy is so confusing; who can sort it all out, am I right?  😏

Anyway, dinner is at 5pm!  Come on by!

❤️

[Moonhawk]

Hugs. I'm glad it's done. Even if it was supposed to be a punishment, it's really the furthest from. 

[GoodGrief3]

If you can't separate for yourself, do it for your kids. There is nothing of value in that relationship for them.

[Harriet Vane]

Glad it's done. And there's no shame in feeling intimidated by her--she's been yanking your chain for a long time, and it's really hard to do something different. Bravo to your dh for stepping in. Does your sister know the truth? 

Now.

Don't talk to her tomorrow. Or all week. It's not a punishment or an act of vengeance. It's a break. 

 

Write down for yourself only the most important points:

--She lied about your child.

--She attempted to use your child to make someone else feel small and unloved. 

--She attacked you when you asserted that this behavior is unacceptable and you will not participate.

 

You are a good mom. You are choosing to teach your children a kinder, more honest, and loving way. Good for you!

 

[Shoeless]

@saraha ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Much love to you.  It was hard, but you did a really brave thing in standing up to her. 

[Rosie_0801]

Work on moving from "I just can't" to "I just won't." That's where you belong, anyway.

[saraha]

It’s all so wrong. She has never used the kids like this before. She has set my sis and I at each other, I think there is even a mention on here somewhere where some one told me about triangulation. But the kids, never. I can’t believe she could tell such a bald face lie and think that my sister wouldn’t say anything to me about it. I am ashamed of the way I ended up screaming at her, but she just kept denying denying denying and then tried to turn it around and say the kids are liars and that was my undoing. She called all 6 of my kids liars.