Too many chefs in the kitchen (marriage related)

[lovinmyboys]

Since we have been parents, I have done the majority of the household management and child care because Dh has been gone a lot with work. We moved a year ago and dh is able to be home much more and it has mostly been a good thing. We have all boys and they (obviously) are getting older, so it has been nice.

However, I am feeling like in some ways it has become harder. For instance, some of them need new winter coats and dh wants to know how I’m shopping, how I’m deciding, how much I’m spending, if a hand me down will work, etc. I finally told him to just get the coats. I don’t think it is a two person job and if he is that invested he can get them. It is that way with a lot of things now-things I have always done, he wants to have input. It sounds horrible to say, but I don’t want his input on everything. It makes me really irritated. And, this has been happening frequently on all kinds of stuff- schooling, menu planning, extracurriculars, organization, etc.
 

I have tried explaining it to him. I would prefer we each have our areas of responsibility and then just discuss important things. But he says he wants to be involved now that he has missed a lot. I am all for him being more involved, but I wish he would do it by being in charge of weekend food, or helping youngest ds get his room clean, or taking them golfing, etc. 
 

So, I guess I am wondering-would that irritate you? Am I being rude for not wanting his input? I know this is a really minor problem, but I just keep getting increasingly irritated by it, so I need to do something.

[*Jessica*]

That would absolutely irritate me!  I don’t have a solution for you, though.  

[RootAnn]

Have you suggested the room cleaning, golfing, etc? I think a good sit down is in order where you explain why you are resenting his input & management. I suspect you feel like he is saying you are doing things "wrong" when he asks lots of questions and offers his advice. You feel attacked, perhaps, or criticized. I don't think that is his intent but perhaps that is how it is coming across deep down?

Part of marriage is figuring how to split duties & after having it figured out, it is changing. (My DH & I had this when he went back to work & I stayed home instead.) A suggestion is to figure out what he's going to be in charge of, what you will be in charge of, and what you can both have input into. Then, perhaps have a code phrase to use when he wants to provide input without criticism and another when you are feeling he's stepped over the line to request that he back off.

Would it irritate me? It might - depending on if I feel attacked by his suggestions. If annoyed enough, I would do what you did & shunt it off onto him. Most importantly, though, would to be communicating why it annoyed me & how we needed to do whatever the task was moving forward. Would he always be in charge of getting winter jackets? Did he understand that might mean noticing someone had outgrown theirs ahead of time & finding something said very picky child will wear since child doesn't like to give up his old, treasured clothing? Etc.

Edited September 23, 2020 by RootAnn
Fixed one of the many typos

[hjffkj]

It wouldn't irritate me that he wants to be more involved  but your example would annoy me.  More involved doesn't mean everything needs to be figured out together.  It sounds like you two need to reestablish how things happen in the house.  But that shouldn't mean you dictate to him how he can be involved just like he shouldn't be getting involved in things that really only need one person.  

I think sitting down to really figure out how he wants to be involved and how that can happen smoothly so he's not making simple tasks more complicated needs to be figured out.  I

[KungFuPanda]

“More involved” means he takes stuff off your plate. More involved does not mean interrogating you like a reporter looking for dirt. It doesn’t mean he gets to micromanage everything you’ve been doing for years without actually doing any of the work himself. How much do you want to bet that if he takes over coat purchasing he spends more than you would. 🤣

[alisoncooks]

Yes, the change in dynamics would frustrate/annoy me. Because if something is working well for me, almost on autopilot, to make changes creates more work/mental energy. 

I have had a similar situation here, but literally in the kitchen, lol. DH works with a university and has been home since March. (SINCE MARCH, PEOPLE!! 😣) Anyway, he's gotten into YouTube food channels and wants to make things. Well, fine, but I've been doing this for our family for 20 years. It's a (fairly) well-oiled machine -- I don't want to change and adapt! Sigh. 

All to say - I hear ya. 

[PeachyDoodle]

Yes, it would and does irritate me. I have a similar situation with my dh. For years, he has gone to work during the day while I stayed home and educated the kids and took care of the household. Now that he works from home, he's constantly coming behind me and second-guessing what I'm doing. Yesterday we had a semi-argument over a crock-pot meal. He asked me in the morning if he should put the meal on before before he headed downstairs to his office. I said, "No, that one only needs a few hours to cook or it will fall apart. I'll put it on at lunchtime." Which I did. On low heat. The same way I've made this meal literally dozens of times before. Later that afternoon I happened by the crock-pot and noticed it had been turned to high. I know it's silly, but that really peeved me off. He said, "It still looked pink!" Well of course it did -- it still had three hours left to cook! The meal was fine but it galls me to be followed around and second-guessed all the time.

All that just to say that I sympathize with you. I think for us both the wise move is to discuss our feelings at a time when we are calm and see if we can reach a new consensus on division of labor here in the "new normal."

[Jentrovert]

Yes, I would be greatly annoyed.  The way it would go here is that I'd say, I'm thrilled that you want to be more involved. However, I am not a subordinate at your work. This is my work. I have been fulfilling my duties for years without difficulties. I do not need a supervisor to check the minute details of my workflow. In fact, I am the supervisor. Now, if you'd like to completely take over a few areas yourself, that would be great. Let's choose.

If he thinks too much money is being spent on clothes, that's a separate discussion about the budget. I would do all I can. But if I don't feel I can clothe us on the budget he wants, then we'd have to agree to adjust the budget OR that would be an area he would take over completely OR the clothing budget would be spent entirely on the kids. When he needs new pants and there's no money in the budget, he can decide how he'd like to proceed.

This probably makes me sound inflexible. In reality, I will bend quite a bit. But it is a matter of respect. If I arrived at his work I wouldn't tell him all the things I think he could do better or set parameters that I actually know nothing about. Well, this is my work. 

 

[saraha]

Yup, and we are going through a little of that here too. The other day he was all up in my business about the way I hang the laundry on the clothesline. Yup, for some reason, 20 years in he is now invested in my clothesline...

I'm sorry I don't have anything more than sympathy. I hope you can work things out.

[Miss Tick]

The scenario you describe would have me shooting eye lasers like crazy! I would likely react by putting him in charge of the boys' entire wardrobe. ALL questions relating to clothes would be directed to him.

In our house it has taken me many, many years to understand how many questions are actually rhetorical. I generally, now, just ignore those with a little humming in my head. I have, on occasion, stated that if he really wants my answer and then googles it and says something that implies I am wrong I will be very angry. That helped clarify my position. 😄

[PeachyDoodle]

40 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I don't think that's silly at all.  I would have for sure gotten peeved off at DH about that.  

I know he's trying to be helpful. But yeah. It gets my goat for sure. 

[mlktwins]

More involved for me would mean taking on some of the responsibilities I have had to handle on my own for years.  I don't have time for DH to be involved in all the details.  And...he got involved in helping with the dishes.  That is great, except he doesn't like the way I load the dishwasher.  After a while of hearing about that and him reorganizing everything after I loaded it, guess what I don't do anymore -- LOL.  I do usually empty it though.

Anyway, my DH worked very long hours for the 1st 12 years of my twins' lives.  I was mostly a single mom Monday through Friday.  Then he abruptly started working from home 3 years ago.  No notice.  It was a rough transition.  Big hugs!!!

[Katy]

I think if DH suddenly started micromanaging coat shopping I'd immediately snap back about whatever area of work I know is most frustrating to him right now.  "Have you ordered that new book about excel macros?  Why not?  Don't you think it would help with your database pulls?  Don't you want to be more efficient at work?" with a pointed look.  But frankly I doubt it would get that far.  I think if he started bugging me about coats I would raise one eyebrow, say something like, "If you think I've been doing such a terrible job at SHOPPING for the last 20 years, fine.  You take it over.  I'll go read a book."

But then again I tend to raise an eyebrow and say, "Excuse me?!?" in a who the heck do you think you are tone if DH even raises a voice at me.  My ex was an emotional manipulator and I have NO patience for that sort of behavior now.

[Carol in Cal.]

Make a list for him of the things that he could do that no one is doing.  Discuss the list.  Prioritize the list.  Every time he starts nitpicking you, ask about the list or something on the list.  Either the list will start getting done, or he will stop bugging you.  Either option is pretty good.  Both together would be ideal.  Redirection—it works for everyone.

Alternatively, in the coat case, you could say, “Oh, you want to take care of that?  Great!  I’ll work on something else.”  And if he persists in wanting to discuss it, say, “Hey, I already agreed that you could do this any way you want.  No problem!”

Edited September 23, 2020 by Carol in Cal.

[hjffkj]

16 minutes ago, mlktwins said:

More involved for me would mean taking on some of the responsibilities I have had to handle on my own for years.  I don't have time for DH to be involved in all the details.  And...he got involved in helping with the dishes.  That is great, except he doesn't like the way I load the dishwasher.  After a while of hearing about that and him reorganizing everything after I loaded it, guess what I don't do anymore -- LOL.  I do usually empty it though.

Anyway, my DH worked very long hours for the 1st 12 years of my twins' lives.  I was mostly a single mom Monday through Friday.  Then he abruptly started working from home 3 years ago.  No notice.  It was a rough transition.  Big hugs!!!

haha.  This is a sore spot for my mom, who lives with us, and me.  For some reason she prides herself on the dishes being her job and that she is good at doing them.  I won't speak to her ability at being good doing them by hand.  But the way she loads the dishwasher drives me insane (I'm sure you are bad like she is.)  I can load more than twice as much as she can if I reorganize her loading.  The amount of energy, water, and time she wastes annoys me.  I would happily take over the dishes chore but she won't let me.  So, I have zero problem rearranging the dishwasher after she has loaded it.  I just do it behind her back now.

[Loowit]

It has been a big adjustment every time DH has changes in how much he is home.  When the kids were really small he got a job that required travel, so he was gone a lot.  Then he got a job where he had to live away from home all week, only home on weekends.  Then his next job was back to traveling.  Now he is work from home full time even after the pandemic.

I like having him around, but there are things that annoy me.  He tries to take over things without asking and creates tension not just with me but with the kids.  The kids and I have had a rhythm to how we do things for years, and he waltzes in and tries to "help".  We have had to create a new way of doing things, and it took some fights talks to get him to see that he needs to discuss with me first, not just take over.  But I also have figured out I tend to be a bit controlling (well a lot controlling sometimes).  I have tried to direct him toward things that will be a help to me, because he really does just want to help.  And also, I let him know when he is stepping on my toes with things.

[RootAnn]

It is important to recognize that he probably doesn't realize he's annoying you or that he is doing anything else other than helping. His intentions are likely good. Help him understand what his interest & questions feel like to you.

That's why I suggest a good talk & some key pass phrases / word clues for you two to use. Their use can even lighten the mood if chosen carefully.

(For example, my kids might good naturedly complain that we are having the same (to me, delicious) meal too often by saying, "Lembus bread. Yum." It is a LoTR reference, fwiw. Gets the point across & we can all laugh. Then, the kids are assigned to figure out the next couple weeks of meal planning to get some other foods in the rotation. I don't feel attacked, they help DH & I out, and they get to offer input on meals including cooking & shopping for them. Win-win-lose *heh*)

[marbel]

2 hours ago, PeachyDoodle said:

I know he's trying to be helpful. But yeah. It gets my goat for sure. 

Here's the thing about being helpful: the helper needs to ask how best to help. The helper doesn't get to decide; the person he/she wants to help does.

Second-guessing my cooking a dish I have done many times without help is not helpful.  It's just a waste of time and an annoyance. 

I have had to say, many times over the past 25 years "there are lots of things around here that only you can do. If you want to be helpful, a better way would be to focus on those things, rather than spending time dealing with things that the kids and I can do."   We have had a pretty good division of labor, though that got messed up when he became unemployed and I went back to work.  Still there are plenty of things that I can do, and do better, simply because I've still got more experience at it.  Like, step away from that cutting board and hand me the onion, I don't want to wait 5 minutes for you to chop the dang thing when I can do it in 1.

[lovinmyboys]

Thanks! You have all given me some good ideas on how to discuss this with him. We have discussed it but I’m afraid I say things like “I don’t want to hear your opinion on winter coats” so these ideas are much better. I know Dh is trying to be helpful. It is nice to get feedback that it can be annoying though. I feel more ok bringing it up with him. I really wasn’t sure if I was being a jerk for getting so irritated at someone who is trying to be nice. 
 

 

[PeachyDoodle]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

Still there are plenty of things that I can do, and do better, simply because I've still got more experience at it.  Like, step away from that cutting board and hand me the onion, I don't want to wait 5 minutes for you to chop the dang thing when I can do it in 1.

At least in our case, it's not that I can do it better or more easily. Between the two of us, dh is the better cook and since he has been home he does most of the cooking (which is fine by me), so it's not like he thought he was doing me some favor by "helping" or that he was taking over "my" job. But even I am capable of dumping meat and broth in a crock-pot and setting the temperature. So I suppose I just found it insulting that he didn't trust my methods, when clearly I've managed this recipe many times before and nobody here has died of food poisoning yet.

And I think in the OP's case, winter coats aren't a matter of "who does it best"? But it's still annoying when your spouse suddenly doesn't trust you to do something that you've previously handled without any trouble. And I think annoyance is a completely valid feeling. Plus, it's inefficient. Most daily household and parenting jobs don't really require two heads, so having a conversation about staying in your lane is appropriate, I think.

@lovinmyboys Sometimes I wonder if my dh isn't just kind of bored since he's not going out in the world as much as he used to. Maybe that's a factor in your case as well? At any rate, just wanted to tell you I totally get your feeling and I don't think it's an overreaction, although it's probably best handled by talking it out and giving the benefit of the doubt (preaching to myself here too).

[Guest]

My grown dd took my dh to task on this. During the shutdown, like several posters have said upthread, he was suddenly all scrutinizing about how I do stuff I have done for twenty five years. Dd said, “Dad, you’re Mansplaning. Don’t you think mom already has a way worked out to do X?” 

I’m glad she brought t up because I didn’t really see it for what it was. But yes; that was it exactly. All the sudden he thought it was crucial to question every little thing. It happened with food a lot. 

[katilac]

"My wife and I play this fun game during quarantine, it's called Why Are You Doing It That Way and there are no winners." Eric Spiegalman via Twitter, I copied this to my dh so fast I almost got whiplash 😄

[fairfarmhand]

I may have been known to hand a spatula to my dh and go sit down to read a book. 

[lovinmyboys]

41 minutes ago, katilac said:

"My wife and I play this fun game during quarantine, it's called Why Are You Doing It That Way and there are no winners." Eric Spiegalman via Twitter, I copied this to my dh so fast I almost got whiplash 😄

Ha! Ok, now that I know this is a “thing” I feel better. Kinda like when I found out other people’s 3yr olds cry about things like not having an S in their name. I’m much more able to internally roll my eyes and deal, when I know it isn’t just me. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

"My wife and I play this fun game during quarantine, it's called Why Are You Doing It That Way and there are no winners." Eric Spiegalman via Twitter, I copied this to my dh so fast I almost got whiplash 😄

my husband sent that to me - knowing it could be him. (thankfully, it really isn't. we are VERY much of the "divide and conquer" mindset. Specialization is what enabled us to have civilization, right? 

The few times he barges in on say, a homeschool lesson, he gets the eyebrow raise and backs off. 

As for your husband, you need to point out that what he is doing is micromanaging, not helping. Ask how he'd feel if he got a new coworker who had no real experience in the field, and yet was suddenly asking all the questions your DH is asking. 

if he wants to help he can apprentice for a year first, lol. Otherwise, stay in your lane! 

[ktgrok]

On this topic, recently on a homeschool group some new homeschooler asked if it was even possible to homeschool if both parents were not equally involved. She thought dad and mom both had to be part of all the lesson planning, teaching, etc. 

The veterans, for the most part, were pretty horrified by the idea, lol. I know I was!  I don't show up at my husband's job and he doesn't need to be involved in mine - not the day to day stuff. We certainly can discuss big picture stuff, similar to what a parent might ask a teacher during a conference, but imagine if a parents showed up at meet the teacher night and wanted to help make lesson plans!

Nope. no way. 

[EmseB]

If "Anyone" starts doing this type of thing to "Anyone Else" in the household, Else will usually ask something like, "Should I put the black queen on the red king?"

But we are also dry humor/sarcasm people so it may start a fight somewhere else.

[Shoeless]

No wise words to solve this from me.  I'm currently still irked because my husband breezed into the office last night and asked "Is there any particular reason you do irritating-but-inconsequential-thing? Because I've noticed that you always do irritating-but-inconsequential-thing". 

I was nice, and did not respond with my first thought, which was "Probably for the same reasons you do other-irritating-but-inconsequential-things". 

I am glad my husband is home, but also tired of how he sometimes adopts this King of the Castle attitude.  Like, you do things that annoy me too, dude.  I let a lot of it go, because it's not worth arguing about, but please stop acting like you have a birth-right entitlement to not be irritated by your housemates.   

[EKS]

What you are describing would drive me crazy.  

[teachermom2834]

We have had this and it irritates the snot out of me. For twenty years I did everything-through fours kids and homeschooling, extracurriculars, handled the financials, everything. 

Then, he is around more and he starts having an opinion about how to load the dishwasher or whatever. I feel like he is coming into my place of employment, where I am an expert, and thinks he has a better way figured out on his first day on the job. Super annoying!

We have settled in and have more specific tasks we each tend to. But I've had to tell him to stay out of some of my stuff. It's like, with the coat example, the first time he's ever bought kids' coats and he needs to consider every angle. But I would already have a philosophy on buying coats for kids based on 20 years of experience. I already figured that out in the first few years with the first kid. 

So, yes, I get it. I do think it is worthwhile to designate who does what jobs. I don't want to discuss everything, especially things I already figured out. 

[Carol in Cal.]

4 hours ago, .;.;.;.; said:

 

And, yes, to the above poster who said he'd probably spend way more on those coats than the wife would have.  My dh actually took over the shopping for a while back when we were hs'ing.  He spent WAY more than I did.  And a lot of it was just wateful - ruined fresh veggies by leaving them in broiling hot car, got cheaper brands ignoring my specific list descriptions so I had to send him back, etc.  Same happened with the bills.  He wanted to start paying the bills even though I'd been doing that for decades.  He ended up paying late fees and all kinds of stuff that I never had happen when I was paying them.  (before auto pay)  Which just means he basically wasted a lot of money.  And so on.

 

 

See, this part I had to let go.

I know that if I were shopping, I would do my best to think ahead and buy enough of everything so I wouldn't have to shop again until we ran out of milk or fresh produce, AND I would have a price book and shop sales aggressively and stock up on things on sale to stash for later use.  And DH just does not think this way, not at all.  He pays a lot, and he will run to the store for one thing over and over, which I find wasteful.

But you know what?  Aside from making really good lists and emailing them to him, I can't control the price thing, and so I just try not to think about it.  That's part of the give and take of letting go of an entire responsibility.  If money were very tight I would have to control freak this, but since it's only somewhat tight I can let it go.  

[Pippen]

When we were first married the kitchen was an issue that caused some serious strife. I was very competent in the kitchen and didn't need or welcome input on how to cook, which of his mom's recipes I should be cooking, what pans to use, what dishes to serve in, what serving utensils to use, how to wash dishes, etc. (I'm not kidding--at times I'd have something ready to serve to company and turn around to find it transferred into another serving dish. )

Eventually we settled on some language to signal boundaries were being crossed. I would just smile and say "Get out of my kitchen" and he'd stand down. 😃

 

[EmilyGF]

11 hours ago, lovinmyboys said:

So, I guess I am wondering-would that irritate you? Am I being rude for not wanting his input? I know this is a really minor problem, but I just keep getting increasingly irritated by it, so I need to do something.

Having major life changes, like a move and changes to a job schedule, can really shake up things in a household, even when they are good changes. Sigh.

In my life, when I've had little things that got me angry, but felt like they shouldn't, I could usually find something deeper that was causing it to bother me. For example, I'd been handling the budget for a long time when all of a sudden my husband wanted to be part of it. I got really angry at him (even though I should have been happy!) because it made me feel like he didn't trust my management of money. Another time, I got upset when he wanted to buy a new modem and set it up. Until then, I had been the one who handled electronics in our household. I realized that I took great pride in that and that by "helping", my husband was reducing my sense of self. In both these cases, once I could name the root offense, I was able to deal with the real problem instead of the symptom.

I would go bonkers with that level of involvement, but I know people who like having their spouse involved. I used to wish my husband would care about homeschooling, but he told me, "Homeschooling is your thing. I don't want to spend any energy on it."

I would go crazy with micromanagement. DH and I have always agreed that if we delegated, we delegated 100%. So when I got the car taken care of of the mechanic did the wrong thing and I didn't figure it out and it broke our car, he didn't get upset, he just took over car care. And when he graciously goes shopping and buys all the wrong things and pays way too much, I say thank you.

Emily

[mumto2]

I am just glad to hear other people dislike having their dh’s load the dishwasher! 😉. It’s driving me nuts!

[LMD]

Oh yes, this gets my back riiiight up. We once had a multiple days and tears argument about the spelling rule 'english words don't end in v'

I've been homeschooling for more than a decade, I've read more than one entire book on spelling. He is a terrible speller. Just terrible. Like, probably dyslexic level.

It wasn't about the actual topic, it was how utter disrespected I felt, that my expertise meant nothing to him. I felt betrayed that maybe he doesn't actually respect what I do after all. And sure, there's a bunch of baggage that got dragged in as well 😄

It would make a difference to me if he was asking for my advice or respectfully trying to understand why I do what I do. Interrogation questions that presume I'm wrong and he's obviously going to be right with his 20 seconds of thought and experience is infuriating.

 

(I really do adore the guy!) 

[easypeasy]

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. OP - you are certainly not alone! 😄 Even the best of DHs have their moments.... 🙄😤

Our worst was when we'd planned a long weekend trip. I was looking for hotels (as I always do) and dh decided to become involved in our trip planning. He freaked OUT at the cost of hotels (I guess he thought we always stayed at nice places for the $69 Side Motel price) and started his own searching. He found a place "off the beaten path" and booked it. I was honestly too shocked to say a darn thing!

We drive there through these incredibly winding roads (I get carsick, which he knows) up and down all these hills toward the backside of nowhere, passing all these really nice hotels to get there. Finally get to the location and when I saw it, I burst into tears!! 😭 I was sobbing by the time he pulled up to the side area where the parking lot is. I calmed myself down, we went inside and... roaches. 🥴 The lady at the front desk gave us some bug killer and DH sprayed the room. We go inside (leaving our suitcases in the vehicle because I didn't want to bring them inside... lol) and dh tells the kids to change so we can go to the pool.

Well - there were a ton of construction workers who apparently stayed at the back half of this ... resort ... during the workweek - just hanging out around the pool. They had a water hose running to the pool because there was apparently a leak. So, with a hoard of male construction workers looking on (they were grilling the fish they'd just caught in the lake where we were staying), we went swimming in that terrifying pool of bacteria.

DH, at this point was DETERMINED to have a good time. I was sobbing on and off the entire time and the kids did not know what to think. 😄

We stayed there THREE DAYS. omg. And luckily no one got sick from the pool water (we spent most of the swimming time at the lake - we found an open, public beach somewhat nearby).

To this day, when we're planning a trip and I'm stressing over some detail, DH will say, "Well, it can't be worse than our weekend at the lake, right?" and he has never tried to take over my trip planning again (and he's been very thankful at all the work I put in to planning our trips).

OMG - just typing that out is bringing PTSD memories back to me! What a horrible weekend that was!!! 😅

The pandemic definitely brought a lot of this out and the above quote someone mentioned I also forwarded to my DH pretty early in the pandemic. lol We sure had a good laugh about that and have tried to keep a good sense of humor since then but I've learned to stand my ground about certain things.

DH reminds me all the time that "his intentions are always good," so when I get reeeeeally annoyed at some dumb man-thing he just did, I try to remember that... "his intentions are always good." (Which is true, in his case)

Edited September 24, 2020 by easypeasy

[Pippen]

12 hours ago, katilac said:

"My wife and I play this fun game during quarantine, it's called Why Are You Doing It That Way and there are no winners." Eric Spiegalman via Twitter, I copied this to my dh so fast I almost got whiplash 😄

LOL. It's the silent ones you have to watch for, like the thermostat changers and switch flippers. It took about seven years before my husband figured out that if I were working/sitting/resting alone in a room that he was passing through, that I was perfectly capable of deciding for myself how much light was necessary the room I was occupying. He still hasn't caught on about the thermostat.

[KungFuPanda]

This whole thread is why the expression “Lead, follow, or get out of the way” exists. 🤣