Please tell me I'm not being stupid; masks in car

[MercyA]

I invited someone for an outdoor pool play date with my DD today. I offered to pick up and drop off, but said I'd need the girls to mask up in the car. No masks required for the play date itself. 

Mom would rather go to the trouble of dropping her off than have her wear a mask in the car. 😬

Why oh why does this have to be a constant struggle? It doesn't seem like a big deal to me to wear one for 15 minutes.

Edited August 7, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

I was thinking an enclosed space with no distancing was an entirely different situation from playing in a pool. 

Didn't think about rolling down the windows.

[Moonhawk]

You're not being stupid. Quite the opposite imo.

I'd have them wear a mask. They aren't 6 ft social distanced, in a closed air environment. Even opening up windows isn't going to do much in every situation so it isn't an "obvious" solution. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Moonhawk

[almondbutterandjelly]

It definitely seems like you and this mom have drawn hard lines in the sand.  I don't disagree with you, Mercy.  I do wonder why you are pursuing this play date, though.  I also don't think it's too much to ask.  Does the kid have allergies or Covid?  How are you supposed to know?  You're not psychic.  I would skip the playdates with this family.

[MercyA]

@perkybunch, this is one of my daughter's best friends. No allergies.

[katilac]

I think you're being reasonable. Just because you are willing to accept a certain level of risk  doesn't mean you're willing to accept an additional level of risk. 

Going only by what's in this post, I'd say just let her bring them and don't give it another thought. You offered. 

[Amira]

We do masks and windows down when we’re in a car with people outside our family.  A maskless short drive probably isn’t very risky, but a mask is so easy to put on for almost everyone. You can’t social distance in a car like you can outside.  

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

((hugs)) you're in a tough position.  If she wants to drop her kid off because masks are so inconvenient, so be it.  Stand your ground.  I am in an area with lots of Covid, and people keep dying.  In most age groups.  Our local superintendent just died.  The father of a church member just died.  Stand your ground.

[RootAnn]

I don't think you are being stupid. I volunteer with someone who has a customer-focused business. When we are in the same house/room for more than just a passing-of-the-instructions, we mask up. (Normally, there is a couple hours between us being in the same enclosed space but sometimes we work together.)

Yesterday, we were both in the same car for a 10 minute drop off/pick up. Both of us masked up even though we had the windows down. Common courtesy.

However, since the mom was willing to drop off separately, I wouldn't make a big deal of her reaction. IMO, you can encourage & request, but people should be able to do what they want as long as it is within the law. You can do what you believe is safe for your family.

[MercyA]

@perkybunch, thanks, I needed that.

So sorry for the losses in your area. 😢

[mlktwins]

They would be required in my car period.  No explanation or justification needed.  I am tired of defending my decisions regarding erring on the side of caution.  To me, people not being cautious have the explaining to do.  And...even if it doesn't really help, which I think it does, it would make me feel better.

Go with your gut and don't apologize for your decisions 😁.

[AmandaVT]

Seeing masked people in cars is very common right now - my mom's husband is a contractor and anytime he has the guy that works for him in his truck, they both wear masks and have the windows open. When DH picks up his mom for an errand, they both wear masks. I think it's a very reasonable ask at this point.

[itsheresomewhere]

It might not be over the mask. DD used to have a friend whose mom did not let her ride in other peoples cars no matter what. 

[mommyoffive]

I would have someone wear a mask in the car too.  They are not going to be 6 feet or more away in the car.  At the pool you can be more spaced out.  Stick to what you think is important.   You were sweet to offer.    But also don't be upset about it.  Unless there is a law or mandate, she has the right to decide what she wants to do for her family. 

[Momto6inIN]

I don't think you're being unreasonable *at all*, but I don't think the other mom is unreasonable either. You both are sticking to your decisions and personal comfort/risk level and also figuring out a way for your daughters to be together. Win win!

[MercyA]

@Danae, I'm not offended or upset. I'm thankful the girls can still get together. And it's easier for me not to have to drive.

By constant struggle, I meant me constantly having to spell things out because everyone else is doing something different, and then having a bit of tension follow. It's that feeling of constantly having an opposite position than (almost) all my friends.

But it's fine. I just need to get over it and be matter-of-fact about it and not worry so much about making other people happy with me all the time. 🙂 

ETA: Mom has never minded me driving her DD before and I've done it a lot. So it is definitely the masks.

Edited August 6, 2020 by MercyA

[Momto6inIN]

I really do think that being matter of fact and not worrying about making other people happy is the key.

[maize]

32 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I was thinking an enclosed space with no distancing was an entirely different situation from playing in a pool. 

Didn't think about rolling down the windows.

I agree with you. A car is a small, enclosed space. Rolling down the windows changes that, but it is crazy hot here lately and wearing a mask in air conditioning would be way more comfortable. Windows down also tends to bother me as a driver, and I don't need unnecessary distractions.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, MercyA said:

I was thinking an enclosed space with no distancing was an entirely different situation from playing in a pool. 

Didn't think about rolling down the windows.

I would make the same decision/request. My car, my comfort level prevails. Just like I get to pick the radio station, lol! 

OTOH, if the friend would rather drive than subject her kid to masks in the car, *shrug*. Whatever floats your boat. 

As an aside, much ridicule has been foisted upon people who have been observed masked in the car, which I feel is simply a testament to how adversarial the mask thing has become. *I* have been in the car with a mask on; I don’t see what’s so laughable about that. It’s not because I think I’ll get COVID sitting in the car by myself; it’s that taking off my tie-on mask, tangled with my long hair, just so I can drive mask free for five miles is....really dumb. 

And FWIW, when I picked dd up from the airport, coming in from France, she wore a mask in the car the whole hour-long drive home, AND I had her sit in the rear right side seat so we were as far apart as possible. 

[SKL]

When I decide to drive my kids (despite an offer of a ride), it's because I don't want to inconvenience the other parent.  It is never about judging the other parent.

Also, she might have taken your "need to wear masks" as an indication that you are really worried about catching the virus.  She probably thought that by driving her own kid, she would be decreasing your stress level.  After all, wearing a mask is not a guarantee of anything.

[Zebra]

In my state we're not allowed to be in cars with non-household members.

Which I think is overkill, and I wish we had the option to decide for ourselves if we should wear masks in the car.   

BUT, I also don't  think you or your friend are wrong.   Honestly, this situation is so new for all of us that expectations are going to have to be laid out for a long time.   There are many gray areas right now.   

[SKL]

Re the driver wearing a mask in a car though - I've heard of more than one car accident because of that choice.  Different people are affected by masks differently.  That said, obviously if you can't mask and drive, you probably shouldn't be chauffering other people's kids.

"My car, my rules"

[Ali in OR]

If the other mom has not had her kid wear masks much, she might also be worried that her child won't really have the mask practice down yet--keep it on, don't fiddle with it, etc. By taking her own kid, she's keeping everyone safer. 

[vonfirmath]

..

Edited August 6, 2020 by vonfirmath

[I talk to the trees]

Three words: Stand.Your.Ground.

This issue has become so politicized and so divisive that there is no way to have rational, reasonable discussions about it. You just have to decide what is best for you and your family and do it. If that makes someone else uncomfortable, that’s a shame, but they can only choose and do for themselves and their own family. Decide what’s right for you. Do that. Don’t apologize to anyone. But don’t expect them to apologize to you either, because they won't. And this next statement is silly, because here I am on the internet handing out advice, but please don't let random people on the internet bully you into changing your behavior because they say so. 
 

Fwiw, I totally agree with masking while in enclosed spaces, even when windows are rolled down. I would require it if I needed to transport someone. If they aren’t comfortable with that, they are free to decline transport! 

Edited August 6, 2020 by I talk to the trees

[TCB]

I don’t think it’s stupid but your best solution is probably the other mom driving her kid. I would want to do this if I were that mom because I would not want to risk my kid getting anyone else sick. I have had several patients who have caught the virus from their grandkids or kids and that is a hard situation for all when the person gets really sick, so avoiding all possibility as much as you can is best in my opinion. I drive a young friend to soccer practice with all windows open both before, during, and after the 5 minute ride. 

[Pen]

 

I think that each parent driving separately to the play date is a much better solution currently than masks in car.  

If one must have non family in car then masks should be worn.  

The friend could be a risk, but also, If your family had Asymptomatic virus carriers, your car could have a lot of virus present not caught by masks even if you usually wear them, and could potentially be a risk to the friend even with mask on. Same could be true of masks you provide, if unbeknownst to you you are an Asymptomatic Carrier, Masks you have could have virus on them. 

[Garga]

40 minutes ago, Zebra said:

In my state we're not allowed to be in cars with non-household members.

Which I think is overkill, and I wish we had the option to decide for ourselves if we should wear masks in the car.   

BUT, I also don't  think you or your friend are wrong.   Honestly, this situation is so new for all of us that expectations are going to have to be laid out for a long time.   There are many gray areas right now.   

Wow! I didn’t know states were doing that.  I have an older friend who can’t drive herself to doctor’s appointments and I drive her.  I’m sure that states with rules about not being allowed to drive in cars with non-household members have exceptions for my type of situation.  

 

As far as wearing masks in cars:  When I drive her to her appointments, we both wear masks, I bump up the A/C (set to bring in outside air) and I roll the back windows down all the way and the front ones down about 1/4 of the way.  

And I drove a 14 yo girl somewhere the other day and also had us wear masks. I mean...talk about no space to social distance!  A car is close quarters!  That would be THE #1 place to insist on masks!  Sheesh!

 

 

[cintinative]

The other week my boys had a friend over and I drove him home. I required him to wear a mask in the car. I didn't ask his parents. Those are my rules. If he didn't like it, I would have told him to ask his mom to pick him up.  I am not willing to take on the risk of a 30 minute drive with a non family member unmasked.   That's my personal choice regarding what risk I am willing to take on. Certainly others can disagree and do differently, but not if they expect me to drive their child home. 

[frogger]

Not having social norms established makes things difficult. Social norms are nice fall backs though they cause problems when you move to a different part of the country. 

I think the other mom in this case solved your problem for you and she isn't punishing you or anything like that. After all, the girls still get to play so the goal was accomplished. So I think I would just take a deep breath and go with it, plus she actually made the whole situation much safer.

To me it seems the kindest thing to do when approaching a group situation is to go with the most conservative member so they feel they can participate. Unless, there is a health issue (mental, emotional, or physical) in which case I may mask (to protect them) and not expect them to mask for me. Be gracious with those who struggle.

Usually, if we are outside with only one other person or small family group we don't mask. We have another set of friends that came over and I knew they had been isolating and we hadn't seen them in awhile and the boy was wearing a mask so I told my son to mask before going out to chat. We all were 6ft apart masked when my daughters best friend showed up. She never said a word. We were all already masked so she masked up and set on the far side of the lawn chatting with my daughter. She saw the social norm (even though it wasn't standard practice for her at our house) and followed suit because she isn't antisocial. 

I never push masking in my car because I only give rides to that one family (we have accepted if they get it, we probably will too) but yesterday when giving a ride to the son he masked cause his mom wanted him too. They have reasons for  temporary measures to be stricter than usual. It was hot but DS and I simply masked up too. It's called putting others needs before your own. He didn't ask us to, we just did. 

I do hope our social norms push us towards being considerate of others. We will see how they end up established though.

 

 

 

[Lady Florida.]

I think you're being reasonable. It's pretty simple to just put on a mask in the car so I don't know why the mom would choose that hill to die on.  If you had a no shoes in the house rule would someone insist their kid has to wear shoes or not play at your house? It's the same as respecting someone's rules when you're at their house imo.

 

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, kand said:

This is what I was thinking. Are you sure it’s not because she’s not comfortable with her dd riding in a car with someone outside the family right now? That’s a situation I would definitely not be okay with, even with masks. 

This isn’t in direct reply to you, just fits what I was wondering about: I understand someone having a line in the sand about requiring masks, because the risk of no masks is serious illness. What is the reason for a line in the sand In the opposite direction—for someone to refuse to have their child wear a mask briefly for something? I understand some people don’t think they should be required for various reasons, I’m just trying to understand what the actual harm would be that causes people to outright refuse.  Except in very rare circumstances (which would usually mean kid needed to stay home anyway), there’s no risk to a kid from wearing a mask for a short while, so I’m curious why this is a no budging issue for some. It seems like this is going to make life harder and more restricted for the kids of people who refuse to allow them to just don a mask and get on with it. 

I don't think the mom in this scenario "refused to have her kid wear a mask" or chose this as a hill to die on. I think she chose an option where a mask wasn't necessary vs one where it was. Those are two different things.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You're not being stupid.  I hope that your daughter and friend have a great time. 

[SKL]

Yeah, it would be different if the mom said, "oh just forget the whole thing" after being advised of the car mask rule.  The mom isn't being nasty or judgmental IMO.

I think this is a sensitive time and people are being over-sensitive.  Myself included sometimes.  The other day I received a "no" RSVP to something and I assumed ill will, but then someone told me something that made me realize I was ASS-uming wrongly.  [In my defense, she has been very consistent about saying "no" to our kids getting together over the years, so that didn't help.]  I am usually not a person to get offended over nothing, so I think it's just the stressful times we are in.

[SKL]

I'm throwing a "socially distanced" party this weekend, and it is a balancing act to advise about the rules without sounding like either "I don't give a crap who gets exposed" or "OMG we're all gonna die unless we do ABC."  I just keep blaming it on the government rules.  I know some people in the group are very nervous, while others are like "oh gimme a break."  Personally I think we all need to give each other a lot more grace than I tend to see online.

[frogger]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm throwing a "socially distanced" party this weekend, and it is a balancing act to advise about the rules without sounding like either "I don't give a crap who gets exposed" or "OMG we're all gonna die unless we do ABC."  I just keep blaming it on the government rules.  I know some people in the group are very nervous, while others are like "oh gimme a break."  Personally I think we all need to give each other a lot more grace than I tend to see online.

 

People tend to be more gracious in real life than online or even  when driving a car where the other face isn't all that visible. Having a real living human being with facial expressions in front of you is different. 

[SKL]

15 minutes ago, kand said:

Oh, I totally agree that this was a good solution and not a problem at all. I wasn’t speaking specifically to the situation with this mom in particular, more generally about wondering what the reason was for some people to refuse to allow their kids to wear masks when necessary, since it doesn’t cause harm, and is likely to restrict their kids from participating in things during this time.

My sister is one who is not comfy with a mask requirement for kids.  She says her kid, who has various health issues, always has a snotty nose, and wearing a mask would be gross as well as ineffective (because sooner or later, it's gonna come off so the kid can wipe / blow her nose).  She bought face shields for her kids, but was told that wasn't good enough.  Not sure how that's going to get resolved once school starts.

Just one example of a possible reason to prefer no-mask situations.

There are other legitimate issues which are exempted, but it isn't our business what everyone else's personal issues are.  I think people need to adjust their thinking to accommodate these differences.  It may mean you can't drive that person in your car, but it doesn't mean you have to be judgmental about it.  Like, I could not drive a toddler if the tot couldn't use or didn't have a car seat.  No hard feelings, I just won't do it, period.

[Lady Florida.]

59 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

I don't think the mom in this scenario "refused to have her kid wear a mask" or chose this as a hill to die on. I think she chose an option where a mask wasn't necessary vs one where it was. Those are two different things.

I can understand that, and if that's the case it makes sense. If she just wants to avoid a close situation that requires masks that's a good thing.

[regentrude]

6 hours ago, MercyA said:

ETA: Mom has never minded me driving her DD before and I've done it a lot. So it is definitely the masks.

Not necessarily. I would not want my child in close contact with other people in an enclosed space like a car, even with a mask - even if pre-Covid that was just fine. I would opt to drive my kid in my own car because that is safer than masking in yours.

 I myself am not getting into car with anybody not in my family, unless it were an emergency.

Edited August 6, 2020 by regentrude

[mathnerd]

You are not her family member and being in an enclosed space, with windows rolled down can still introduce infection (from her to you or from you to her). Asymptomatic transmission is a very common method of spreading this. If one of you is masked, it still is not very safe. So, the best option is for the mother of the other child to drive the child to your house and for the child to remain outside the house throughout the event.

I refused to get into my own car after I dropped it off for some essential servicing this month because the service tech who was wearing a mask (only covered his mouth and not his nose) was working inside my car. I had him park my car for several hours in the hot sun with the windows rolled down and then my DH who has lesser concerns than me picked it up.

Edited August 6, 2020 by mathnerd

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think you are both perfectly reasonable. It is reasonable for you to want the kids masked in the car together, and reasonable for her to choose an option where her kid doesn't need to mask. I fully support masking and would have done the exact same thing as that mom and dropped off my kid. Masks are freaking annoying. I avoid situations where I need to wear a mask as much as humanly possible, why would I put my kid IN one that could easily be avoided?

[matrips]

Maybe it has nothing to do with wearing mask, and everything to do with an enclosed space.  Just because I’m okay with an outdoor play date doesn’t mean I’m okay with sharing indoor space.

Edited August 9, 2020 by matrips

[MercyA]

On 8/6/2020 at 5:46 PM, matrips said:

Maybe it has nothing to do with wearing mask, and everything to do with an enclosed space.  Just because I’m okay with an outdoor play date doesn’t mean I’m okay with sharing indoor space.

This is a good point, but Mom does not believe that COVID is any more serious than seasonal influenza, and she was happy that they were not "forced" to wear masks on a plane recently.

Edited August 9, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Not necessarily. I would not want my child in close contact with other people in an enclosed space like a car, even with a mask - even if pre-Covid that was just fine. I would opt to drive my kid in my own car because that is safer than masking in yours.

 I myself am not getting into car with anybody not in my family, unless it were an emergency.

The other mom doesn't think COVID is serious and didn't think her family should have to mask on a recent flight (and said they got away with not doing it).

[MercyA]

7 hours ago, kand said:

This is what I was thinking. Are you sure it’s not because she’s not comfortable with her dd riding in a car with someone outside the family right now? That’s a situation I would definitely not be okay with, even with masks. 

This isn’t in direct reply to you, just fits what I was wondering about: I understand someone having a line in the sand about requiring masks, because the risk of no masks is serious illness. What is the reason for a line in the sand In the opposite direction—for someone to refuse to have their child wear a mask briefly for something? I understand some people don’t think they should be required for various reasons, I’m just trying to understand what the actual harm would be that causes people to outright refuse.  Except in very rare circumstances (which would usually mean kid needed to stay home anyway), there’s no risk to a kid from wearing a mask for a short while, so I’m curious why this is a no budging issue for some. It seems like this is going to make life harder and more restricted for the kids of people who refuse to allow them to just don a mask and get on with it. 

Yes, I'm sure. She doesn't think COVID is dangerous.

Some people in my circles believe the "breathing your own carbon dioxide is dangerous" anti-mask nonsense.

[Pen]

Notwithstanding whether other mom thinks CV19 is no more dangerous than common cold, let alone regular flu, her driving her own kid is safer.  Your only child kid still gets an outdoor play date, with less all around risk.  It’s fine. Don’t overthink this one. 😉

[MercyA]

6 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

I think you're being reasonable. It's pretty simple to just put on a mask in the car so I don't know why the mom would choose that hill to die on.  If you had a no shoes in the house rule would someone insist their kid has to wear shoes or not play at your house? It's the same as respecting someone's rules when you're at their house imo.

I don't know about this mom in particular, but in our circles there is a stigma involved WITH masking. It is seen as a political statement and an acceptance of what the "liberal" news is telling people. It is seen to be fearful. And some people believe it's unhealthy to mask.

This mom did not want her family to have to wear masks on an AIRPLANE, so her not wanting her child to wear one in my car is consistent with that.

Edited August 6, 2020 by MercyA

[MercyA]

5 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Maybe mom actually doesn’t want her in the car at all. Not to avoid a mask, but to avoid potential exposure. 

I wish this were the case. See above posts. 🙂 

[MercyA]

The girls had a great time. Thanks, all! 🙂