Can we talk about teens? How to survive them?

[DesertBlossom]

My oldest is coming up on 13. And in 5 years we will FOUR teenagers in the house. My oldest, who has always been my hardest kid, is already throwing me for a loop. This is the kid who can give me a sweet hug right before bed and tell me loves me and then snarl at me first thing in the morning when we're out of cereal. 

How do you find a balance between recognizing that sometimes kids have a bad day and expecting them to treat family members with a little respect. 

How do you not take their mood swings and eye rolls personally?

Book recommendations please. Or something.

 

[Ravin]

When I figure it out I'll let you know.

Not sure I'll ever figure it out, though. Every time I think I've figured it out, it changes.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have found that focusing on the relationship is important when trying to keep things in perspective. All people have their issues and their hot buttons but they also have what we love about them. That doesn’t change just because of their age. Hormones can make things a bit interesting but approaching things with humor and compassion can make a big difference. 

[maize]

Take the snarls as a sign of distress and try to problem solve from that direction?

Teach language needed for kids to identify and express and regulate emotion. Distress tolerance involves a skill set that doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Teach that it is normal to feel irritable at times and that there are appropriate ways to deal with irritation. Using family members as emotional punching bags is not among them and is in fact abuse.

*speaking from the perspective of "this is what I hope I can do" not "I've already succeeded at this."

I would send each of my kids through DBT emotional regulation training if I could.

Edited September 18, 2018 by maize

[Terabith]

Maybe I just have spectacularly easy teens, but I have found the teen years to be SOOOOO much easier and more pleasant than when they were younger.  And I always thought I was a baby/ toddler person.  But I adore them as teens.  They're funny and creative and smart and we can have actual conversations about things.  They wipe their own bottoms and brush their own teeth and they can even be left home alone at times.  They might be sarcastic or roll their eyes, but they don't scream mindlessly for no reason I can determine.  It's....amazing.  It feels less like parenting and more like having amicable roommates who eat my food and I have to drive places and occassionally nag about personal hygiene.  So, maybe lousy roommates, but compared to three year olds?  It's heaven.  

[marbel]

Just now, Terabith said:

Maybe I just have spectacularly easy teens, but I have found the teen years to be SOOOOO much easier and more pleasant than when they were younger.  And I always thought I was a baby/ toddler person.  But I adore them as teens.  They're funny and creative and smart and we can have actual conversations about things.  They wipe their own bottoms and brush their own teeth and they can even be left home alone at times.  They might be sarcastic or roll their eyes, but they don't scream mindlessly for no reason I can determine.  It's....amazing.  It feels less like parenting and more like having amicable roommates who eat my food and I have to drive places and occassionally nag about personal hygiene.  So, maybe lousy roommates, but compared to three year olds?  It's heaven.  

This is how I feel.  I mean, my teens got snarky and  moody at times... so do I, so does my husband.  But they can be talked to, reasoned with. 

Oh I also agree with StellaM's comment about food first thing in the morning. That has been a must for my boy since he was a little guy. Sometimes you can see the mood change as the food enters his system.  

[4everHis]

I have found that as long as I don't react things don't spin out of control. I continue to talk in controlled voice and usually they will even come back and apologize for attitudes. 

[maize]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Maybe I just have spectacularly easy teens, but I have found the teen years to be SOOOOO much easier and more pleasant than when they were younger.  And I always thought I was a baby/ toddler person.  But I adore them as teens.  They're funny and creative and smart and we can have actual conversations about things.  They wipe their own bottoms and brush their own teeth and they can even be left home alone at times.  They might be sarcastic or roll their eyes, but they don't scream mindlessly for no reason I can determine.  It's....amazing.  It feels less like parenting and more like having amicable roommates who eat my food and I have to drive places and occassionally nag about personal hygiene.  So, maybe lousy roommates, but compared to three year olds?  It's heaven.  

No screaming or yelling?

No tantrums, melt downs, panic, anxiety, curling up in depression?

No grouching and snarling and lashing out at you and siblings cause they happen to be in a bad mood and everything is wrong with their world starting with you?

If your teens are amicable most of the time with nothing more than occasional sarcasm or eye rolling to roil the waters...yes you have easy teens.

Some teens are that way.

[Terabith]

Yeah, I mean, sometimes they cry irrationally or are sad or angry or hormonal, but....I mean, I am, too.  I understand that.  And even when they're being irrational, most of the time they admit they're being irrational and don't know why they are crying or angry or whatever.  That's just HUMAN.  But it's still so much better than the crying/ screaming/ physical attacks of the toddler years.  Or the constant asking of the same question.  Or stupid knock knock joke phase.  (Oh, God, I hated that phase.)  Teens are just so much more like people to me.  I love babies and toddlers.  I was a really good parent to them.  But this just feels EASY in comparison, both physically easier and emotionally easier, too.  I mean, the stakes are higher, and maybe my kids really are just super good kids.  Even my kid with special needs is easy and funny and clever.  I'm not constantly trying to translate or figure out what they need.  

Or, maybe they were just much harder little kids?  I mean....my younger one woke up every two hours until she was four years old.  She was terrified and had panic attacks so severe that she hallucinated.  So maybe it's just that in comparison, grouching and snarling is so much more dealable and less extreme than they were when they were little?  

Edited September 18, 2018 by Terabith

[Ravin]

2 minutes ago, maize said:

No screaming or yelling?

No tantrums, melt downs, panic, anxiety, curling up in depression?

No grouching and snarling and lashing out at you and siblings cause they happen to be in a bad mood and everything is wrong with their world starting with you?

If your teens are amicable most of the time with nothing more than occasional sarcasm or eye rolling to roil the waters...yes you have easy teens.

Some teens are that way.

 

Not mine. Sigh.

[marbel]

Oh, I forgot, re: eye rolls.  My girls was rolling her eyes at me from maybe age 5?  Not sure, but way earlier than I had expected.  it's been a while. She still does. But we have found our way.  We forgive each other quickly when one or the other of us oversteps bounds.  I've figured out the best times to talk to her - in the car when we're going someplace she wants to go, and while shopping, even grocery shopping.  

[Terabith]

Yeah....I don't think of eye rolling as a teen thing.  My kids literally rolled their eyes before their first birthday.  They were sarcastic from the start.  But, all my favorite people are sarcastic.  And I roll my eyes at them, too.  So, it doesn't register as a big deal.  

And honestly, I can put up with this kind of stuff so much more easily than screaming for hours (ear piercing shrieks) or physically being attached to me 24/ 7 or the horrible never shutting up and telling the same joke eight million times a day.  

Probably, my teens are easy and my kids were somewhat challenging as kids, so relatively easy teendom feels REALLY easy, in comparison.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

I work with at risk teens and treating them with respect goes a long way towards being treated with respect in return. I don’t have a Pollyanna view- the teen years were especially challenging with my Aspie. But he wasn’t being that way to spite me and talking through things and being on the same “team” made those years still ones where we were also growing in our relationship. 

[fairfarmhand]

26 minutes ago, maize said:

No screaming or yelling?

No tantrums, melt downs, panic, anxiety, curling up in depression?

No grouching and snarling and lashing out at you and siblings cause they happen to be in a bad mood and everything is wrong with their world starting with you?

If your teens are amicable most of the time with nothing more than occasional sarcasm or eye rolling to roil the waters...yes you have easy teens.

Some teens are that way.

I have 2 easy teens and 1 really hard. My oldest is as you describe above. My 2 youngers are comparably a joy. They have horrible moments but seldom whole bad days/weeks like the oldest.

i do like teens. I have more fun with them on good days than I did with toddlers. 

[frogger]

31 minutes ago, BlueGables said:

I have found that as long as I don't react things don't spin out of control. I continue to talk in controlled voice and usually they will even come back and apologize for attitudes. 

 

There have been times when I needed to remind myself that I am the adult and I need to act like it regardless of the fact they may have hurt my feelings or are frustrating me.  I so regret when I don't (which has happened, trust me) but they are forgiving. I know every child is different and some of them are more worrisome than others and push my buttons more. I do really hope we keep our great relationship through adult years but I know it takes two and we all try our best.

Edited September 18, 2018 by frogger

[fairfarmhand]

I will say that learning to listen well is helpful. My strong willed one never liked being told no and was seriously unhappy about it. However, if I allowed her to present her ideas and thoughts she did better about dealing with the no. And the deal was that I would listen but when I said I was done that was the end, no more nagging or arguing. It was really important to let her have her say. 

[itsheresomewhere]

I find deep breathing and meditation to be very helpful so far.  Along with lots of exercise for all of us.  

Although, my DS is convinced that his sister’s is going to spin one day. 

[Pen]

1 hour ago, DesertBlossom said:

 

Book recommendations

 

I find even looking at the following titles helps:

1) Yes, Your Teen IS Crazy. 

2) I’d Listen to My Parents, If They’d Just Shut Up

(. 3) Get Out Of My Life, But First Could You Drive Me and Cheryl to the Mall  )

 

And

 

4) The Grownups Guide to Teenage Humans

 

[maize]

OP, one thing you may find hopeful: for many kids, the roughest patch is actually the tween and early teen years. What you are seeing with your thirteen year old right now may be the worst it ever gets, and by fifteen they may be a joy of a child.

It is unlikely you will have four teens who are all riding wild emotional roller coasters at the same time.

[fairfarmhand]

Also! Read the Zits comic books to help you learn to laugh about it all.

[Sunshine State Sue]

1 hour ago, DesertBlossom said:

Book recommendations please.

Get out of my life but first could you drive me and Cheryl to the mall? by Anthony Wolf

Edited September 18, 2018 by Sue in St Pete

[Sunshine State Sue]

6 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Also! Read the Zits comic books to help you learn to laugh about it all.

L

[Starfish]

38 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Also! Read the Zits comic books to help you learn to laugh about it all.

 

Excellent advice!  I have several of these from when oldest ds was a teen.  He's now 33.  

Some of the greatest advice we've gotten though, is from SWB in Cincy years ago.  She gave a great talk about teens that included naps, showers, and sandwiches.  It was the same talk where she shared about her kids not being able to find things and hitting them with it when she did -- all in a fun, comical manner of course!  Our family still says:  "If I find it, can I hit you with it? "   I think it may be a podcast but didn't see it in the store.  Maybe someone else remembers the talk and the name.   

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Starfish

[Amber in SJ]

My first was an incredibly difficult teen.  She was mean and snarly, and angry and vicious.  She would say the most horrible things to me and refused to walk away from an argument.  If I walked away she would stand outside my locked door and shout dreadful things.  I have to say that in the beginning I did everything wrong and took it so personally and I had a difficult time walking away from an argument as well.  I learned quickly though.  She would do it in public and at home.  There were no consequences that she cared enough about to curb her rudeness.  

For the record; no one spoke to her that way, I did not "teach" her that it was OK to be disrespectful to me and we always followed up on the consequences.  She was an actual nightmare.  She used to tell me things like when she moved out and had a family of her own she was going to tell her children that I was dead and they didn't have a grandma.  That lovely comment came after I asked her if she needed help with her Spanish homework.  Her grandma is bipolar with a slew of other mental illness diagnoses, and I feared we were seeing early signs of those things.  My sister who is a therapist who works with children/ teens let me know that for the most part teens are not diagnosed with personality disorders/ mental illnesses because even normal adolescence can look similar to those illnesses.  The family therapist we saw told us that teens are an like an optical illusion because they are starting to look like reasonable adults when in fact their rapid brain growth more closely resembles a toddler. The problem being a toddler has limited vocabulary and tantrums or melt-downs can be ignored.  During that child's adolescence I called my own mom & apologized for 1983-1988

She is now 23 and calls/ texts/ DMs me a couple times a week, to tell me she loves me and she is so thankful I am her mom.  

The next one was the complete opposite.  Everything was directed inward.  She didn't lash out at me, she harmed herself.  I struggled to help her as well and it was a deep source of pain & frustration for me.  Now at 21 with a slew of serious health problems she lives with us and is working toward her educational & career goals with as much support as we can give her.

I have a 15 & a 13 in the throes of adolescence right now.

All of this to say, you will find your way, both of you will survive.  When I was going through the terrible teens with the first one and other moms would say they love their teens because they could have more adult conversations or their teens were so much fun to be with it was so painful because I wanted that, and I wondered what I was doing wrong.  It seemed like my presence in my teen's vicinity sent her into a frothing rage, even if I didn't say a word or interact with her at all.  When other moms in social situations would see her lash out at me they would tell me that they would never "stand for" being treated that way by anyone. Some moms would tell me that their husband would tell their child "You do not treat my wife that way!"  I was never down for the threats implied in these two statements.  She had consequences.  She would be grounded from activities or electronics or whatever.  What else was I supposed to do?  Slap her?  Kick her out of the house onto the street?  I cried because I felt like I was losing years of her life because she couldn't stand me.  The best thing for me to realize was that it wasn't my fault.  I was doing my best and that is all I could do.

Hugs from me to you from the parenting hyper-difficult teens club.  I don't have the answers, but you have my support.  You can do it; you will get through it.

Amber in SJ

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Amber in SJ
spelling :)

[gardenmom5]

TEENAGERS ARE LIKE CATS

1. Neither teenagers nor cats turn their heads when you call them by name.

2. No matter what you do for them, it is not enough. Indeed, all humane efforts are barely adequate to compensate for the privilege of waiting on them hand and foot.

3. You rarely see a cat walking outside of the house with an adult human being, and it can be safely said that no teenager in his or her right mind wants to be seen in public with his or her parents.

4. Even if you tell jokes as well as Jay Leno, neither your cat nor your teen will ever crack a smile.

5. No cat or teenager shares your taste in music.

6. Cats and teenagers can lie on the living room sofa for hours on end without moving, barely breathing.

7. Cats have nine lives. Teenagers carry on as if they did.

8. Cats and teenagers yawn in exactly the same manner, communicating that ultimate human ecstasy: a sense of complete and utter boredom.

9. Cats and teenagers do not improve anyone's furniture.

10. Cats that are free to roam outside sometimes have been known to return in the middle of the night to deposit a dead animal in your bedroom. Teenagers are not above that sort of behavior.

Thus, if you must raise teenagers, the best sources of advice are not other parents, but veterinarians. It is also a good idea to keep a guidebook on cats at hand at all times. And remember, above all else, put out the food and do not make any sudden moves in their direction.

When they make up their minds, they will finally come to you for some affection and comfort, and it will be a triumphant moment for all concerned.

~~~~~~~0000~~~~~~~

I've finished the teen years and into adulthood with four.  now . . . I'm starting with dudeling.  1ds thinks teenage angst is hilarious. . . . (where's my glare emoji?)

I did a lot of staying up late - becasue that was when they'd talk.  they just got home, or got off the computer after some victory in a game, etc.   they're excited and want to share.  so - be available. 

lots of patience, don't take "rejection" personally - they're just stretching and trying their wings.

above all - be willing to LISTEN to them.  their feelings, hopes, dreams, thoughts.. .as we give them respect, they will return respect.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, frogger said:

 

There have been times when I needed to remind myself that I am the adult and I need to act like it regardless of the fact they may have hurt my feelings or are frustrating me.  I so regret when I don't (which has happened, trust me) but they are forgiving. I know every child is different and some of them are more worrisome than others and push my buttons more. I do really hope we keep our great relationship through adult years but I know it takes two and we all try our best.

my sil wanted to control her kids - so some took joy in pushing her buttons.  one grew his hair long, wore it in a pony tail (way before it became popular) and dyed it interesting colors.  I asked him one day if he was enjoying pushing his mother's buttons. . . that got a BIG smile, and an admission that why yes, he did enjoy pushing her buttons.

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I have 2 easy teens and 1 really hard. My oldest is as you describe above. My 2 youngers are comparably a joy. They have horrible moments but seldom whole bad days/weeks like the oldest.

i do like teens. I have more fun with them on good days than I did with toddlers. 

I'm so sorry you have a "would give the best parents in the world a run for their money" child.   hang in there, you're doing great.

2 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Oh I don’t know.  My mom, who had 4 kids all within 10 yrs, always said they don’t become “human” again until they are 21/22. I have not only found that to be true with my own DD22, but, looking back, I can also see/feel my own transition around that same time.  

I had four kids in 10 years.   One apologized for being obnoxious at 17.

[LucyStoner]

Ah, my 15-year-old apologizes for being obnoxious and then goes right on being obnoxious the next day or 27 seconds later.  

I second Jean's advice, though talk to me in 5 years because my son is only 15.  Focusing on being there for him, setting and respecting boundaries and just talking to him about his plans, thoughts and feelings really helps.  

I've also found that I can get a lot out of him, in terms of him telling me authentically what is going on when he's stressed and depressed, by inviting him to take a drive for a late evening errand.  Grab him a fast food chicken sandwich or whatever and just be quiet in the car on the way too and from Target for detergent and it.all.spills.out. ? 

[Rosie_0801]

3 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

Oh I don’t know.  My mom, who had 4 kids all within 10 yrs, always said they don’t become “human” again until they are 21/22. I have not only found that to be true with my own DD22, but, looking back, I can also see/feel my own transition around that same time.  

 

Yeah, I don't know about teenagers, but I have some 21 year olds in my life atm and they are damned near as cute as preschoolers. I have politely managed not to tell them this.

[BakersDozen]

Quote

I did a lot of staying up late - becasue that was when they'd talk.  they just got home, or got off the computer after some victory in a game, etc.   they're excited and want to share.  so - be available. 

Yes! The kitchen light is on until at least midnight because more often than not I have a teen/young adult who wants to chat. I've learned to survive on very, very little sleep. And those random car rides where I'm quiet and they suddenly start to talk...awesome.

I confess that I would rather have a dozen teething babies and whining toddlers over older teens/young adults (ages 18-22). This has not been fun...not at all. I do enjoy the deeper conversations yet I do not enjoy the deeper "digs" and pains. There are times I have to walk away because I know I'm going to cry, my heart is so heavy over something they say or do.

As far as respect and attitudes I say to my teens a lot, "Stop, try again." With my really hard kids I would actually prepare them: "I need to talk to you about something but want to give you a moment so we can talk instead of argue." Sometimes that worked. Sometimes it didn't.

Eye rolls...not happening. As the Queen Brat of the World when I was younger I come down hard on that one. Oh my...I have apologized to my mom many times for that one. Stomping off, slamming doors/things, also not happening. But it's all tied into respect and learning to argue respectfully/maturely.

I cannot recommend a book because I've read so many and in the end nothing seemed to work. In fact I was just eyeing the many shelves of parenting books at the library and laughing (not in a humorous way). But a friend said something to me when dc #1 was 18 and making our life hell: "This is not the end of her/his story." That was better than all the parenting books I've read.

My teens are just lovely until they hit 17 or so. My oldest is now 22 and as delightful as can be. I look at her and cannot reconcile that this lovely young woman was the brat we got to live with. So I hold out hope for the next 12 kids to also emerge as nice human beings. ?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't recommend a book because I don't parent by "cookbook".  None of my kids even when they were babies followed the parenting guides and that didn't change when they were/are teens.  I know that they can be helpful to some people though.  I just don't find that they work for me.  Part of that was that I could see from a very young age that my kids were going to be their own people.  That is so much so once they hit the teen years.  In the teen  years I am still a parent but I am also much more a mentor. 

[Carrie12345]

No super advice here.  I technically just went down to 2 last month, when ds turned 20, but he's still very teen.  I'll bounce between 2 and 3 for the next almost decade.  Sigh.

I do believe my kids are awesome and amazing. I believe they are good people who bring good things to the world. When I sit and think about it hard enough, I overflow with love and joy and pride.  And then they do something stereotypically teen-like and I'm back in survival mode.

I've been shocked to find how personally I really do take their baloney.  I've learned what all that martyr talk was all about. I want a ridiculously extravagant gift or trip or party in December of 2030, when the baby turns 20!

[J-rap]

8 hours ago, maize said:

Take the snarls as a sign of distress and try to problem solve from that direction?

Teach language needed for kids to identify and express and regulate emotion. Distress tolerance involves a skill set that doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Teach that it is normal to feel irritable at times and that there are appropriate ways to deal with irritation. Using family members as emotional punching bags is not among them and is in fact abuse.

*speaking from the perspective of "this is what I hope I can do" not "I've already succeeded at this."

I would send each of my kids through DBT emotional regulation training if I could.

In hind site, I would too!

[J-rap]

I had five teens at once for awhile, and now they're all in their 20's.  Partly what worked for us and partly what I've learned in hind site (I really wish I could do some parts over again!):

Try hard not to take things personally.  It's usually NOT about you, but is about their brains trying to sort things out.

Model good behavior and talk.

Talk to them about their actions and reactions, and yours too if that helps, in a third-party type of way.  That is, try and un-personalize it as much as you can and make it simply educational or a curious thing to talk about.  This makes it a LOT easier for them to hear what you have to say.

Keep talking.  I used to just trust my kids so much (because they all seemed pretty on the ball!) that I figured they were resolving things in their own minds okay, and outwardly they seemed good.  I figured they didn't want me intruding on their personal thoughts all the time anyway, and I wanted to respect their mental privacy.  In hind site I really wish I had forced my way (delicately, of course) into their minds/thinking process more, because I can see how even if things appeared okay on the outside, their brains were sometimes processing it all wrong and taking things out of proportion, and then it became set and a lens through which they viewed life.  This is where the emotional regulation therapy would have been really good.

But in any event, bottom line is don't take it personally.  Keep modeling good behavior and talk.  Talk about things much more than you think you need to -- but more in an educational, curious way instead of a disciplinary way.  Help make it feel very natural and normal to discuss things like this, like you're taking it apart together.

I really wish I had done more of that!

[Mimm]

Be more selfish. I have a mentally ill teen and a neurotypical teen. Learn to take care of you. I don't mean the odd self care moment where you sit in a coffee shop for half an hour, or get a pedicure (by all means, do these things as well) but really pay attention to keeping yourself mentally healthy and happy. I've had to get strict with myself about paying attention to my own mental space and keeping it a good place for me to live in if that makes sense. I've had to recognize when I'm obsessing about something, very intentionally reframe certain things (her actions are about who she is, not about who I am, I don't deserve less respect just because she shows me less respect, etc) and simply stop thinking and worrying about my teens when I find myself thinking about them too much. This might not apply to you, but I deal with some anxiety related to these little monsters I've created and adore so much. ?

[MysteryJen]

I have generally liked having teens, though they do have their moments. I have done plenty of things that could have been done better and since each kid is different, I get to make new mistakes all the time. Mostly I have learned:

• don't take things personally- even when they are yelling at you, they aren't always yelling "at" you.
• keep your worry to yourself. Be calm and encouraging on the outside. Support their independence with confidence
• listen to their music in the car-you will learn about them and what's going on with them
• Be around- and ready to listen. I hear most about their day either right after school or right before bed
• Have their back-make sure they know that you support them, that even in rough times, that you love them and will be on their side.
• Little things go a long way- small treats, getting a favorite from the grocery store, picking up something they need,  anything that shows you are thinking of them
• Bite your tongue. Support and commiserate first. Advice, sparingly and last. 

We have had our moments, especially with the oldest's mental health (now doing very well). Having kids, well, it is hard no matter how old they are. Joy and sorrow, worry and wonder all mixed up together.

[4everHis]

11 hours ago, frogger said:

 

There have been times when I needed to remind myself that I am the adult and I need to act like it regardless of the fact they may have hurt my feelings or are frustrating me.  I so regret when I don't (which has happened, trust me) but they are forgiving. I know every child is different and some of them are more worrisome than others and push my buttons more. I do really hope we keep our great relationship through adult years but I know it takes two and we all try our best.

With oldest I would end up sounding like I did at 13 fighting with my brother. That's when I realized I needed to act like an adult even though, in reality, I wanted to scream and pull hair, hers and mine?.

[elegantlion]

Teens are like toddler adults, they want wings NOW but they have to learn to walk first. Ds was an easy kid to raise, which was surprising given his parents ?. I listened a lot, a lot at 10pm when I wanted to be in bed. I ignored his grumpy moods most of the time and I didn't bug him about things that gave him ownership of his person: clothing, hair, music, gaming. My goal was to become his safe space, earn his trust so to speak. 

We had huge life challenges thrown at us when he was 15, so there was no time for rebellion or to argue about petty differences. In hindsight, it brought ds and me along with my parents into a strong bond. He just turned 21 and I'm still the one he talks to at 10pm, now about larger life issues than Minecraft. 

I expected the teen years to be hard. In many ways, I think ds's "rebellion" was to be easy going. Ex-dh went through his mid-life "teen" rebellion - maybe for the 10th time- when ds was a teen. I do think that ds internalized that wasn't how he wanted to be, so a negative example was helpful ?.

Obviously, my case study of one is just one anecdote, but I'd still take another teen over a toddler. I like the grumpy independence way more than toddlerhood. 

 

[Pen]

Keep talking and telling them important things you are sure they need to know...even if they seem not to be listening and rejecting what you say. Don’t be afraid to tell them the same important thing more than once (they may not have heard it even if they weren’t listening to rap through their earbuds the previous times).

Keep giving them hugs...even if they seem not to want hugs from you anymore. 

[Angie in VA]

No advice here since I'm waiting till mine are 45 to see if they turned out well.

Seriously. 

[Pen]

If you are home schooling and feel like you aren’t surviving your teens,  consider whether putting them in brick in mortar school could make things better. Or at least give you a little recovery time. 

[Terabith]

13 hours ago, maize said:

Take the snarls as a sign of distress and try to problem solve from that direction?

Teach language needed for kids to identify and express and regulate emotion. Distress tolerance involves a skill set that doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Teach that it is normal to feel irritable at times and that there are appropriate ways to deal with irritation. Using family members as emotional punching bags is not among them and is in fact abuse.

*speaking from the perspective of "this is what I hope I can do" not "I've already succeeded at this."

I would send each of my kids through DBT emotional regulation training if I could.

Honestly, I think this would be useful for EVERYONE to go through.  Can’t we replace one of the health classes in high school with DBT training?  

[Pen]

13 hours ago, DesertBlossom said:

nd then snarl at me first thing in the morning when we're out of cereal. 

 

Cereal is cheap for some peace of mind  

Keep it well Stocked up in your cupboard with 4 times as much as you think you need.  Teens can suddenly need 4 breakfasts in a row  

Keep the things that go with it stocked too, and some back ups in storable forms , such as long shelf life almond milk or etc. 

Make sure teen also gets plenty of fats and protein. 

[maize]

20 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Honestly, I think this would be useful for EVERYONE to go through.  Can’t we replace one of the health classes in high school with DBT training?  

That is an excellent idea!

[unsinkable]

11 hours ago, Amber in SJ said:

My first was an incredibly difficult teen.  She was mean and snarly, and angry and vicious.  She would say the most horrible things to me and refused to walk away from an argument.  If I walked away she would stand outside my locked door and shout dreadful things.  I have to say that in the beginning I did everything wrong and took it so personally and I had a difficult time walking away from an argument as well.  I learned quickly though.  She would do it in public and at home.  There were no consequences that she cared enough about to curb her rudeness.  

For the record; no one spoke to her that way, I did not "teach" her that it was OK to be disrespectful to me and we always followed up on the consequences.  She was an actual nightmare.  She used to tell me things like when she moved out and had a family of her own she was going to tell her children that I was dead and they didn't have a grandma.  That lovely comment came after I asked her if she needed help with her Spanish homework.  Her grandma is bipolar with a slew of other mental illness diagnoses, and I feared we were seeing early signs of those things.  My sister who is a therapist who works with children/ teens let me know that for the most part teens are not diagnosed with personality disorders/ mental illnesses because even normal adolescence can look similar to those illnesses.  The family therapist we saw told us that teens are an like an optical illusion because they are starting to look like reasonable adults when in fact their rapid brain growth more closely resembles a toddler. The problem being a toddler has limited vocabulary and tantrums or melt-downs can be ignored.  During that child's adolescence I called my own mom & apologized for 1983-1988

She is now 23 and calls/ texts/ DMs me a couple times a week, to tell me she loves me and she is so thankful I am her mom.  

The next one was the complete opposite.  Everything was directed inward.  She didn't lash out at me, she harmed herself.  I struggled to help her as well and it was a deep source of pain & frustration for me.  Now at 21 with a slew of serious health problems she lives with us and is working toward her educational & career goals with as much support as we can give her.

I have a 15 & a 13 in the throes of adolescence right now.

All of this to say, you will find your way, both of you will survive.  When I was going through the terrible teens with the first one and other moms would say they love their teens because they could have more adult conversations or their teens were so much fun to be with it was so painful because I wanted that, and I wondered what I was doing wrong.  It seemed like my presence in my teen's vicinity sent her into a frothing rage, even if I didn't say a word or interact with her at all.  When other moms in social situations would see her lash out at me they would tell me that they would never "stand for" being treated that way by anyone. Some moms would tell me that their husband would tell their child "You do not treat my wife that way!"  I was never down for the threats implied in these two statements.  She had consequences.  She would be grounded from activities or electronics or whatever.  What else was I supposed to do?  Slap her?  Kick her out of the house onto the street?  I cried because I felt like I was losing years of her life because she couldn't stand me.  The best thing for me to realize was that it wasn't my fault.  I was doing my best and that is all I could do.

Hugs from me to you from the parenting hyper-difficult teens club.  I don't have the answers, but you have my support.  You can do it; you will get through it.

Amber in SJ

 

Thank you for sharing.

Lots of retroactive hugs (? Is that the word I want? I 'd go back in time to hug you when things where the most difficult)

[frogger]

DesertBloom, I don't want you to think all teens are horrible. Will they hurt your feelings? Probably at some point. Will they make mistakes? I would think. They are human, real people not robots and not as easily controlled as a preschooler and they often have more influences on them outside the home and are just begining to learn adulthood.

The problem is often, that we parents worry. They fail a test and we parents forget how many tests we've failed and don't have empathy. We tell them what to do and can you imagine if you moved in with your parents and they treated you like most teens are treated you would be irate. The truth is teens need help and guidance and rules so I'm not saying those things are bad but it certainly complicates the relationship.

 

I currently have an 18, 16, and 13 year old and though discord erupts I'm responsible for as much as they are because I worry, because I want the very best for them.  Well, they also at times have discord between each other which I have no part of. The trick is to be honest, hey, I just worry about your future about your choices, etc but it's because I love you. They get it. They can be the sweetest things ever too. They have been known to apologize or offer to cook dinner when I'm not feeling well. They can take on tasks that I can't or don't have time to do. I slowly move to a friend position. A confidant, a peer, but also mentor or helper. They are taking on choices and there are times they wish I would make more decisions for them.

They don't want to be known as teens but as people and individuals. Treat them as such and you may be surprised. Yes, there is a chance they fall into bad influences and my heart breaks at parents stories at times but things like that happen to adult children too. Each individual is different. Some have to learn to deal with passions or depression because they are people and have physical bodies that affect them. Some sail through teen years in peaceful bliss. Don't mandate them with a self fulfilling prophecy.

Just remind yourself you are the adult. You are the one with more experience getting along when feelings run high, when bad days or weeks or years occur. They are new at navigating life and they will remember these teen years more than they will remember early childhood mommy with birthday cakes and lots of patience. That last sentence is the one that inspires me most. How I live life NOW is what they will learn from me. 

[KungFuPanda]

Get yourself into a frame of mind where you don’t take teen moodiness any more personally than you took toddler tantrums.  Having clear boundaries with known and consistently enforced consequences is important too. Keep your ego out of it and try to remember that this is a phase of life with BIG feelings and it’s not about YOU. Say “yes” whenever you can reasonably do so and remember that these years will zip by and they’ll move on. They’ll remember how you treat them NOW much more vividly than they remember their early childhood. Don’t bank on getting credit for anything you did before they were 7. ?

[Amber in SJ]

8 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

As far as respect and attitudes I say to my teens a lot, "Stop, try again." With my really hard kids I would actually prepare them: "I need to talk to you about something but want to give you a moment so we can talk instead of argue." Sometimes that worked. Sometimes it didn't.

Eye rolls...not happening. As the Queen Brat of the World when I was younger I come down hard on that one. Oh my...I have apologized to my mom many times for that one. Stomping off, slamming doors/things, also not happening. But it's all tied into respect and learning to argue respectfully/maturely.

This is what I got from a lot of moms in my group. 

I would also say to my teens in a calm, adult voice.  "Stop, I am going to give you the chance to say what you need to say in a way that is not hurtful to me."  And my dd would take that as an opportunity to say something even more hurtful.  Every. Single. Time. 

If I gave her a warning or tried to prepare her that the conversation we were about to have might not be to her liking, she would go into full on defense mode and usually decide to go for the preemptive strike and enact a verbal scorched earth policy before I could say anything more than, "I have something to talk to you about."  When she was not in an emotionally volatile moment (and they were few and far between) we would talk about how to speak, discuss & disagree in ways that were respectful.  We went to family therapy to try to gain the tools and a common language about how to deal with big emotions and hormones and stress.    She was able to do those things with her outside teachers, her peers, her bosses and later her college roommates and now husband.

I don't understand what you mean by "not happening."  What are the consequences if your kids do those things?  There were never consequences big enough that would make her stop slamming doors (even removing her door).  She moved on to slamming kitchen cupboards until she had broken all the glass.  One day she threw something through her bedroom window, so she had a room, that she shared with a sibling, with no door, a boarded up window and I had a kitchen full of cupboards with doors that had no glass or no doors at all.  Beyond grounding, what would you have done to make sure this was "not happening?" 

We have a  mom who joined our mom group in a step-mom situation after a friend died of cancer.  She was also a mom who said she didn't allow anyone to speak to her that way because she had too much respect for herself.  That type of behavior was "not happening."  When the 13 yo dd was snarky & rude and refused to keep her hair tidy, this mom shaved the child's head while she was sleeping.  When the younger son started acting out around 14yo she found a lovely boarding school in another state and sent them there.  So maybe I should have come down harder when the door slamming started and shaved her head or sent her away but instead, I was not willing to go that far and was stuck with grounding.  My dd did not care if she was grounded.

I used to find that type of comment painful because the implication is that my daughter is horribly behaved because I didn't teach her to be respectful of me or others or that I didn't respect myself and that just wasn't the case.  

Amber in SJ

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Angie in VA said:

No advice here since I'm waiting till mine are 45 to see if they turned out well.

Seriously. 

So much wisdom in one short post! 

[Liz CA]

For general principles I continue to recommend the "Boundaries" series by Townsend and Cloud. There is a specific one titled: "Boundaries with Teens."

Other than that I agree to the love and limits suggestions by other posters. 

[Guest]

Quote

don't understand what you mean by "not happening."  What are the consequences if your kids do those things?  There were never consequences big enough that would make her stop slamming doors (even removing her door).  She moved on to slamming kitchen cupboards until she had broken all the glass.  One day she threw something through her bedroom window, so she had a room, that she shared with a sibling, with no door, a boarded up window and I had a kitchen full of cupboards with doors that had no glass or no doors at all.  Beyond grounding, what would you have done to make sure this was "not happening?"

Hugs to you, mama. Sometimes it’s just a crapshoot. I was just speaking to a mom who has one practically perfect child and one child who causes constant distress. I know this mom and dad to be exemplary in every way and, what is more, they are surrounded by extended family who are also cream of the crop human beings. But this child is very troubled. It’s definitively not crappy parenting driving this child’s troubles. 

FTR, I strongly disagree with using any trust-decimating tactics of one-upmanship, such as shaving their heads would be. I try always to keep respect as our baseline and The Golden Rule. How much would I care about someone who would cut my hair while I slept? My hate for them would fester.