Allowing DC to ride with bad drivers?

[Ann.without.an.e]

My baby sister is an amazing person, but she is a horrible driver. My parents and I can't figure what goes on in her head.  She has always been a day dreamer/off in space type.  She gets in accidents a few times a year.  She has wrecked her own cars, my parent's cars, etc.  She is thirty now and has had her license for 12 years but this is still her life, just crashing cars all the time.  So she wants to take DD to Atlanta (about a 4-5 hour drive) to see a play.  Atlanta has one of the highest motor vehicle death rates in the country.  I am 99% sure I will say no, but I also know that she will be hurt and offended.  I am just giving you the opportunity to set me straight if I am making a big deal out of nothing.  Thank you ❤️

Edited September 9, 2018 by Attolia

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would try to see if there was an alternative. Go by train for the adventure ?  (Don’t even know if a train goes from where you live). You take your dc there for a fun weekend and she takes them to the play as part of it?  

[Pawz4me]

I don't think I've ever been an overly protective parent.

DH and I recently drove through Atlanta (going and coming). Once was around 2:00 in the afternoon and the other was, very unfortunately, during afternoon rush hour.

And I would say . . . no way.

Both times were really awful experiences, and we're no strangers to traffic or crazy bad drivers. Our Atlanta experience wasn't so much bad drivers (in truth I don't recall seeing anything that concerned me; almost everyone seemed very polite about letting cars merge, switch lanes, etc.). It was the sheer volume of traffic that seemed to overwhelm the available roads.

[regentrude]

No, I would not let my kids ride with unreliable drivers unless it were an emergency. If your sister has frequent accidents beyond the beginning dri er stage, she is not fit to drive. If she is going to be offended by being told the truth, that's her problem. She can't be oblivious to the fact that normal people manage to drive without frequently crashing.

[mlktwins]

NOPE!

 

[gardenmom5]

no way.

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

No, I would not let my kids ride with unreliable drivers unless it were an emergency. If your sister has frequent accidents beyond the beginning dri er stage, she is not fit to drive. If she is going to be offended by being told the truth, that's her problem. She can't be oblivious to the fact that normal people manage to drive without frequently crashing.

 

She actually seems quite oblivious.  I have no idea why?  We aren't easy on her about it.  As an example, her company is sending her to Florida and they will pay to fly her there or she can drive and be reimbursed.  Guess what she's choosing?  It used to shock me, but I am no longer phased by it at all.  I just mentally scream .... take the darn plane.  

Edited September 9, 2018 by Attolia

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I would try to see if there was an alternative. Go by train for the adventure ?  (Don’t even know if a train goes from where you live). You take your dc there for a fun weekend and she takes them to the play as part of it?  

 

7 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

no way.

 

1 hour ago, mlktwins said:

NOPE!

 

 

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

No, I would not let my kids ride with unreliable drivers unless it were an emergency. If your sister has frequent accidents beyond the beginning dri er stage, she is not fit to drive. If she is going to be offended by being told the truth, that's her problem. She can't be oblivious to the fact that normal people manage to drive without frequently crashing.

 

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I don't think I've ever been an overly protective parent.

DH and I recently drove through Atlanta (going and coming). Once was around 2:00 in the afternoon and the other was, very unfortunately, during afternoon rush hour.

And I would say . . . no way.

Both times were really awful experiences, and we're no strangers to traffic or crazy bad drivers. Our Atlanta experience wasn't so much bad drivers (in truth I don't recall seeing anything that concerned me; almost everyone seemed very polite about letting cars merge, switch lanes, etc.). It was the sheer volume of traffic that seemed to overwhelm the available roads.

 

 

Thank you all so much for your thoughts.  My gut says no.  Sometimes you can feel better when there is a backlash if you can tell yourself that you have a HIVE of women who agree ?

Edited September 9, 2018 by Attolia

[mlktwins]

5 minutes ago, Attolia said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you all so much for your thoughts.  My gut says no.  Sometimes you can feel better when there is a backlash if you can tell yourself that you have a HIVE of women who agree ?

Go with your mama gut!  And...if you don't and something happens?!?!?!?!?!?  Your sister will just need to deal with it!  My dad is a horrible driver (has been forever) and I have never allowed my kids (now 13) to ride in a car with him driving.  Ever.  And I won't ride with him either.  I drive or I don't go.  Sorry....that's a big risk to take.

[katilac]

Atlanta traffic is a nightmare. I haven't been in a very long time, but I'm guessing it hasn't improved! 

I don't oppose workarounds that don't address the core issue for one-time or rare events, but if driving your kids is likely to come up again, I think you will need to say something. 

You can start with the Atlanta trip only if it's not likely to come up before then. "Traffic in Atlanta is very dangerous, they have one of the highest motor vehicle death rates in the country. It scares me to think of you and dd driving in that (if sis has never driven in Atlanta, bring that up as well), but I know dd wants to go and you're awesome for offering. Can we look at trains and planes, anything but automobiles?" You can always play the mom's intuition card. 

If she reacts angrily to that, then I would just say "that's the way it is" and not worry about it. I'd go ahead and say my kids wouldn't be riding with her ever, because she's mad already, why waste it? 

If she reacts reasonably, maybe a little offended but willing to go along, that handles it for this trip and you will have planted a seed. You can either bring it up again shortly or wait if she doesn't generally drive your kids. 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

1 minute ago, katilac said:

 

If she reacts angrily to that, then I would just say "that's the way it is" and not worry about it. I'd go ahead and say my kids wouldn't be riding with her ever, because she's mad already, why waste it? 

 

 

 

I like the logic in how you think.  You are stellar ❤️ 

[gardenmom5]

16 minutes ago, Attolia said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you all so much for your thoughts.  My gut says no.  Sometimes you can feel better when there is a backlash if you can tell yourself that you have a HIVE of women who agree ?

God gave you that gut - listen to it.

[madteaparty]

Nope. We have an au pair that knows how to drive but is used to a manual—we are practicing twice daily and will get private lessons before she can drive a kid. And the longest drive she’d do is 30 minutes 

[ktgrok]

Nope. Say you are not ocmofrotable with the kids driving that far with others, don't say her specifically. 

Also, does she have ADHD? Some specialists think meds are important for driving safety, if nothing else. 

[Garga]

I can't remember where I was reading it, but I was reading something about how people perceive themselves.  It was odd and illogical, but people sometimes perceive themselves as the exact opposite of what they are.  For example, the more sleep deprived people got, the more they thought, "Oh, I'm sleepy, but I can handle it,"  They couldn't--on memory and puzzle tests, the more deprived they were, the worse they did.

People who drive bad enough to cause crashes, rated themselves as "very good drivers," even when they are asked to rate themselves while they're in the hospital...from being in an accident they caused.  (!!)

So your sister possibly thinks she's a great driver and that the rest of you are being silly.  She probably will be upset that you won't let your dd ride with her.  But she's wrong.  If she's upset, consider that she might not be seeing herself clearly and it's an odd but normal quirk of human nature that's making her that way.  

I am also one who doesn't get in cars with bad drivers and I'd never let my kids ride with your sister, especially in traffic around a large metropolis.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Garga

[73349]

Another vote for Amtrak. ?

[unsinkable]

I've driven in many major metro areas...NYC, Chicago, LA, Boston, DC, Atlanta, to name some.

Atlanta is probably tied with Boston for the most difficult, IMO.

So I would say no with no hesitation.

 

[Xahm]

Check out Megabus and then booking a hotel within walking or Marta distance to the play. (I'm assuming it's downtown.) I see Megabus and similar companies in ATL area frequently, and I've heard good things from those who've used them.

[Heatherwith4]

Atlanta is a tough place for anyone to drive in.  And honestly, this is one of those hills to die on, IMO. I’d say no without hesitation.

[Pen]

Absolutely not.

And if she does not recognize her driving problems I’d also be wary about allowing Amtrak, or for her to be solely in charge of your dd elsewhere, because she might space out on her responsibility  

It sounds like your sister has something wrong and needs an evaluation. A lot of accidents like that is not normal.  If she is likely to be hurt and offended it might be a moment to express concern and suggest an evaluation for ADD or a neurological problem. 

[catz]

No, but I think that sounds like fun so I'd try to find a way to make it work if I thought it was a good relationship to foster in every other way.  I'd offer to go also or take the bus, Amtrak, etc.  

[unsinkable]

4 hours ago, Attolia said:

My baby sister is an amazing person, but she is a horrible driver. My parents and I can't figure what goes on in her head.  She has always been a day dreamer/off in space type.  She gets in accidents a few times a year.  She has wrecked her own cars, my parent's cars, etc.  She is thirty now and has had her license for 12 years but this is still her life, just crashing cars all the time.  So she wants to take DD to Atlanta (about a 4-5 hour drive) to see a play.  Atlanta has one of the highest motor vehicle death rates in the country.  I am 99% sure I will say no, but I also know that she will be hurt and offended.  I am just giving you the opportunity to set me straight if I am making a big deal out of nothing.  Thank you ❤️

 

Are you sure still has a license with all those accidents? And how can she afford insurance?

[Ann.without.an.e]

11 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

 

Are you sure still has a license with all those accidents? And how can she afford insurance?

 

I have often wondered about this?  Many of her accidents have only involved herself and a wall, a tree, a fence, etc so she simply took the loss and never filed it on insurance.  My dad keeps bailing her out, in fact with this last accident my dad had just had all of the body damage on her car completely fixed and she had it back for two weeks before it was totaled.  She was driving my parent's cars on their insurance for a window of time but then they lost their premium insurance because of her accidents and had to go with a more expensive insurance company which they then lost because of consecutive wrecks, and now she is on her own plan.  I am sure she pays a fortune but I've never had the guts to ask?  My parents have never had an accident or a wreck but they pay a ton because of the things she's done while on their insurance.  She's single and I get that they want to help her but she just turned 31, they need to stop bailing her out financially - another rant, another time ?

[PeterPan]

She's probably ADHD and needs meds, or else her eyes are really bad, mercy. Kudos to your parents finally getting her off their insurance. 31 is too old for that when she's working a living wage job. 

As far as Atlanta, agreeing with the others, no way. You could reword her invite though and thank her for inviting you too. Then you drive, y'all take a hotel, have a girl's night, everything is safe. 

Just gonna point out that someone who is ADHD and distracted and not processing well with their own driving is going to be even MORE distracted with an additional person in the car. That just sounds like a recipe for disaster. No way would I allow it with her driving. Find a workaround.

[unsinkable]

1 minute ago, Attolia said:

 

I have often wondered about this?  Many of her accidents have only involved herself and a wall, a tree, a fence, etc so she simply took the loss and never filed it on insurance.  My dad keeps bailing her out, in fact with this last accident my dad had just had all of the body damage on her car completely fixed and she had it back for two weeks before it was totaled.  She was driving my parent's cars on their insurance for a window of time but then they lost their premium insurance because of her accidents and had to go with a more expensive insurance company which they then lost because of consecutive wrecks, and now she is on her own plan.  I am sure she pays a fortune but I've never had the guts to ask?  My parents have never had an accident or a wreck but they pay a ton because of the things she's done while on their insurance.  She's single and I get that they want to help her but she just turned 31, they need to stop bailing her out financially - another rant, another time ?

Wow. I know a kid who has a semi-similar story with an alternative ending.

He had 3 accidents in about 1.5 years and could not afford insurance any more. His parents really could not help. He finished out his school year then got a job at a wilderness type place, where he wouldn't have to drive.

One thing lead to another and he just never came back to college but he has a life he loves being a camping, hiking, rafting kind of guide.

[Farrar]

I came in ready to be like, try to give people some slack, but *multiple* accidents every year for her whole driving life!?!? That's mind-boggling. No way. And I'm a parent who would usually be chill with something like this.

[Pen]

Besides ADD or similar maybe she lacks depth perception. 

[SquirrellyMama]

No, no, nope! I've known people who got in multiple accidents, and they also never seem to understand that they were bad drivers. Also, Atlanta traffic, just no. 

If she gets mad, just name off all the accidents she's been in. 

Kelly

[Lanny]

No.  I don't think it is a good idea for a parent to knowingly allow their DC to ride in a car with a driver they know is reckless and accident prone. Think up some excuses now.

 

[Pen]

15 minutes ago, Lanny said:

reckless

 

I think that is an important word to keep in mind if she is upset by not being allowed to drive dd. 

 

Isn’t your sister extremely upset by all the accidents and wrecks?  And seeking to figure out what is wrong and fix it? 

8 hours ago, Attolia said:

e.  She gets in accidents a few times a year.  She has wrecked her own cars, my parent's cars, etc.  She is thirty now and has had her license for 12 years but this is still her life, just crashing cars all the time.

 

This is way not normal  and if she just takes it as being no problem, maybe there is also a personality disorder. 

[Terabith]

I have very poor depth perception, and while I am not a great driver, I am a VERY cautious driver and have never had a real accident other than a fender bender when I was still on my permit at 16.  I know I cannot parallel park because of my depth perception, though with the new backup camera I probably could learn to do so.  My parents just recently moved from Atlanta, so I have a fair bit of experience driving there.  It’s intense but not stressful the way DC is.  People are sane.  But it’s a huge volume of traffic and you must absolutely pay complete attention at all times.  I would not let someone with that record drive my kids there or probably anything.  If you are self aware of your flaws as a driver, you can take steps to mitigate them in most situations.  It doesn’t sound like she does.  

[unsinkable]

I had a horrible thought and please forgive me if I am way off base. Could she be depressed or suicidal or attention seeking?

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

 

I think that is an important word to keep in mind if she is upset by not being allowed to drive dd. 

 

Isn’t your sister extremely upset by all the accidents and wrecks?  And seeking to figure out what is wrong and fix it? 

 

This is way not normal  and if she just takes it as being no problem, maybe there is also a personality disorder. 

 

 

She was in a pretty serious car accident a few weeks ago and I think it has helped a little.  Even though I never said anything snarky (and I don't) about her accidents, my dad texted me in a group text with my mom and sister and said "I remember a young lady (referring to me) who rolled her jeep", I think he's always trying to make her feel better.  And my sister replied "yes, but she was 16 and that was one time.  I am 31 now, this is an ongoing problem, can't you see how the two are very different?"  This was a new response for her.  But she has since turned down the company paid for flight to Florida and is opting to drive instead so I am not sure it is sinking in perfectly ?. And she is still asking about Atlanta so....

[Ann.without.an.e]

21 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

I had a horrible thought and please forgive me if I am way off base. Could she be depressed or suicidal or attention seeking?

 

 

I don't think she is suicidal, but she has been battling depression. 

[rebcoola]

NO!!  I had to say no to my MIL taking the children to Disneyland for the same reason.  

[Xahm]

This does remind me of when I was sixteen and a few of us spent the night with an older friend in college. My mom dropped us off, another girl's mom picked us up. It was the most terrifying drive I've been on with an adult driver. She kept claiming to be "the nicest driver in Atlanta," so to prove it she would slam on her brakes while driving down a state highway with a prevailing speed of 65mph, just to let cars out of driveways. They would have been able to merge easily on their own as traffic wasn't heavy that day, but was heavy enough that coming to a complete stop in the road was crazy. She later pulled a ridiculous u-turn in heavy traffic because the Krispy Kreme "hot now" sign was on. As soon as I got home, I told my mom "I'm not allowed to ride with A's mom. No one in our family is!" It was a good lesson to learn before college, but one that I'd rather have learned from a book.

Edited September 10, 2018 by xahm
Auto correct confusion

[Sk8ermaiden]

2 hours ago, OKBud said:

As a slight aside (kind of) I do want to put in a plug for the people in my family with ADHD... when they are driving, they are *driving.* I would, can, and do trust them with our precious lives in automobiles. Geez.

 

Thanks, that was bugging me too, just a little. I have moderately severe ADHD, can't really do meds, and I put over 20K miles a year on my car in a major metro. I've been in two accidents in my 17 years of driving, neither serious, one was on my first day driving in downtown Houston at 18 y.o. I know not to take things that aren't personal, personally, but when quite a few people are all like, "Oh, well, ADHD you know..." 

My mom has ADHD and I'm not sure she's had an accident in my lifetime! My sister who escaped the curse though, totals a car a year. I realize statistically ADHD puts you at a slightly higher risk for accidents, but not OP level not safe to drive risk...

And no, I would not let my child in that car. I struggle to let her ride with my sister, who's not the best driver, but nowhere near as bad as yours.

[J-rap]

My nephew (now 31) lacks impulse control.  He has all his life, so for him it's a genetic thing.  This has caused him to get into many car accidents.  He also probably has been to the ER 30 times in his short life so far.  He also has ADHD.  I would not let my child ride with him, but I know it's difficult to tell people that.  As others have said, you can say that you don't allow your child to ride with anyone besides parents for now.  You can look up tickets on a train or bus, or even drive them yourself.  

I'm actually running into a similar situation with my parents as drivers right now.  I've told my dd that she can no longer ride with them, and up till this point we've kind of been coming up with excuses.  But I know there'll come a time when we'll just have to be blunt and say no, sorry, but we're not comfortable with that.  It's really hard, I know.

[Joules]

Absolutely Not!! You have to be an incredibly good driver in Atlanta just to defensively keep from being hit by one of our awful ones.  Depending on the details and direction you live, you may be able to park at a Marta station in the 'burbs and come into the city that way...message me if you want to share more.

For other situations, I'd still say no until she does something to change. She is not too old for driving lessons. She needs to spend the money and go through an intensive program with someone who can correct her bad habits (whatever they are) and teach her new skills. It's not good for anyone that she is on the road...someday one of those things she hits will be a person.

[Carrie12345]

I have a sister who lives in Atlanta and has a long history of crashing cars.  Years ago, I made it clear that she wouldn't be driving my kids anywhere because of her driving record.  She's the one who's been IN the wrecks; she knows it's true!  I don't get how people can be offended by facts.

P.S.  I have ADHD. I lightly tapped a light pole when I was 17, and bumped a car (that was parked in no-parking behind the regular parking spots) twice when I first got a minivan 15 years ago.  And I had 1 speeding ticket when I was 21, which I still maintain was not my fault. (A semi was riding my rear and I was boxed in.)  Entirely different from repeatedly totaling cars, and has nothing to do with a diagnosis.

[zimom]

Nope, nada, would never happen.  I never compromise on who drives my kids, and yes, Atlanta is a nightmare.