If we leave California... where to?

[chiguirre]

21 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said:

No the government is to be criticized for not acknowledging that, since drought years are a normal part of our climate we need to be building appropriate water storage when the snow/rain does come.  If the government had already been taking all reasonable measures and still honestly felt like we were going to run out of water without strict measures, I would be less angry.  But they haven't, and so I am.

 

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I imagine that the trigger might have been the latest lovely gift from our incompetent state government having to do with personal water usage reduction to pretty much untenable levels:

http://thefederalist.com/2018/06/11/yes-california-effectively-banned-showering-laundry-day/

How incompetent is our state government?  Glad you asked.  Our state government is SO incompetent that for quite a while they never passed a budget on time.  What fixed this?  Again, glad you asked.  A citizen initiative was voted in that stopped legislators from getting paid from the time a budget ran out to the time they passed the next one.

This is not specifically left or right.  This is irresponsible incompetence.

 

24 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Yes, it's about the government not the people. Nearly all of my family is here.  Many, many friends.  Me. ? I don't hate Californians.  I do hate our state government.  I feel broken.  I just want out. 

And yes, the water is kind of the straw that broke the camel's back.  They've mismanaged our water resources, refused to build appropriate water storage to manage the number of people that live here, and then penalize residents - in many cases, the same people who have been shouting for years for them to build more water storage.  Drought is nothing new.  It's a natural part of our climate.  Plan accordingly.  

 

 

Ironically, Texas has the exact opposite problem. We're looking to build more reservoirs and flood containment in Houston and along the coast in general. Unfortunately, the governor is afraid to call the Texas Lege back into special session to use the Rainy Day Fund (this is really its name) because he's afraid that the Lt. Gov. will embarrass the state with more of his wackiness. Bad government is not a left/right problem, it's an entrenched majority party problem.

 

[PeterPan]

In the midwest you're gonna have about 3 months a year that are more humid (not extremely humid, not sauna, just more humid). The rest of the year will be very nice. I have asthma, so I am just more careful in those months, with the vicious pollen flying. Thing is, if you go to the southern states, aren't you dealing with pests like poisonous snakes, scorpions, etc.? I don't know, just me, that would be a rough trade-off.

[chiguirre]

16 minutes ago, Crimson Wife said:

One big thing to watch out for in low tax "red" states is if you have a disabled child who needs services, some of the states ignoring Federal law mandates to those services. Texas in particular is fighting several big battles in court over things like not providing legally required special ed services and also Applied Behavioral Analysis therapy through Medicaid.

Certainly I have big disagreements with CA state government over spending and other policies but there's a big difference between saying "we shouldn't be wasting huge sums of money on a high speed train between Bakersfield and Fresno" and "we shouldn't be spending money complying with Federal law mandating services to the disabled".

Yep!

(And we have our own high speed train boondoggle that keeps popping up: Houston-Dallas with a stop in College Station.)

ETA: Oh, and our Attorney General is under indictment for financial fraud but he refuses to resign. Seriously.

[cintinative]

I am a bit out of the loop but from relatives in the Denver area, there are a lot of CA transplants which is pushing up the cost of living (because the cost of real estate is so high in CA so they come to CO with more house money to spend). I have no idea what the rest of the state is like.  As far as liberal/conservative, from the outside looking in, it seems like that would depend on where in CO you live. I could be wrong! 

[prairiewindmomma]

In all seriousness, I would not move to Arizona because of their current/upcoming water crisis.  Most of Arizona pulls their water from the Colorado River, and there are serious sustainability issues there.  I wouldn't move anywhere that depends on the Colorado River for water (Nevada, California, Arizona). 

I'd look at Boise, ID, St. George, UT, Colorado Springs, CO, and maybe Spokane or Walla Walla, WA. 

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I am a bit out of the loop but from relatives in the Denver area, there are a lot of CA transplants which is pushing up the cost of living (because the cost of real estate is so high in CA so they come to CO with more house money to spend). I have no idea what the rest of the state is like.  As far as liberal/conservative, from the outside looking in, it seems like that would depend on where in CO you live. I could be wrong! 

Nope, you're right. The difference between conservative CO Springs and liberal Boulder is significant.

[Moonhawk]

Depending on what part of CA you are in, [certain parts of] Arizona will be much drier. I remember my first summer in CA I was dead to the world for a week while I adjusted to the humidity. Southern AZ is definitely not just less humid, it is dry. During monsoons you get spikes of humidity but it doesn't usually last the entire day. I'd probably recommend northern or north-eastern AZ, like Flagstaff or someplace more wooded/higher elevation. It may be more humid but less heat and less water issues (may still be a problem, I'm not up to date).

 

[Laurie]

5 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

 

Assuming DH can find a job pretty much anywhere, our only other requirements are that it be a place with low humidity, low or moderate cost of living and that it be mostly politically conservative.

I want Midwest, DH wants Arizona.  I'm also up for Texas (not Austin or Houston, a small town somewhere).  Where else would work?  It doesn't have to be desert, but the humidity thing is actually important, because DH has breathing issues.  I've never done a very cold, snowy winter, but I assume we'd adapt okay. 

 

I would add this to your list of requirements...no legalized pot.    It's awful to have pothead neighbors.   If the houses are close together the insidious stench will get into your house even if all your windows are closed.  (Rooms with a dryer vent, bathroom fan, etc. can provide a way in...) 

[SanDiegoMom]

12 minutes ago, Laurie said:

I would add this to your list of requirements...no legalized pot.    It's awful to have pothead neighbors.   If the houses are close together the insidious stench will get into your house even if all your windows are closed.  (Rooms with a dryer vent, bathroom fan, etc. can provide a way in...) 

Does pot smoke smell worse than regular cigarettes? I don't know as I really haven't smelled it since college! But we have a lot of smokers in our area and I hate it. Especially driving behind people throwing their cigarette butts out the window.  Ugh. 

Walking in our neighborhood on some nights too there's a certain house that reeks of cigar smoke.  Glad we don't live next door to them!

[sassenach]

5 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

I'm sad.  I don't actually want to leave California, but leftist BS out of Sacramento and the Bay Area is becoming unbearable. (ETA: I want to escape our terrible state government not specifically Californians.)  We're finally to the point of seriously considering pulling up stakes and moving to a free state.  Our home state is so broken and corrupt, I just don't know what else we can do to fix it.

Assuming DH can find a job pretty much anywhere, our only other requirements are that it be a place with low humidity, low or moderate cost of living and that it be mostly politically conservative.

I want Midwest, DH wants Arizona.  I'm also up for Texas (not Austin or Houston, a small town somewhere).  Where else would work?  It doesn't have to be desert, but the humidity thing is actually important, because DH has breathing issues.  I've never done a very cold, snowy winter, but I assume we'd adapt okay. 

I'm serious, y'all.  Hit me with your suggestions.

 

Oregon and Texas have been pretty common exodus endpoints, but I've also heard Idaho come up several times lately.

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, Crimson Wife said:

One big thing to watch out for in low tax "red" states is if you have a disabled child who needs services, some of the states ignoring Federal law mandates to those services. Texas in particular is fighting several big battles in court over things like not providing legally required special ed services and also Applied Behavioral Analysis therapy through Medicaid.

Certainly I have big disagreements with CA state government over spending and other policies but there's a big difference between saying "we shouldn't be wasting huge sums of money on a high speed train between Bakersfield and Fresno" and "we shouldn't be spending money complying with Federal law mandating services to the disabled".

 

This is the very top of my reasons that I think we'll always live in CA. The programs for the disabled are WAY better here than any other state that I'm aware of. I have my fair share of complaints about California, but this state has taken GOOD care of my son. 

[prairiewindmomma]

15 minutes ago, sassenach said:

Oregon and Texas have been pretty common exodus endpoints, but I've also heard Idaho come up several times lately.

I think all of California is leaving.  Housing is going up everywhere as a result.....  Here are some statistics on common end points: https://www.ocregister.com/2017/11/16/census-142932-more-people-left-california-than-moved-here-in-2016/

With Austin's growing tech center, a LOT of jobs are flowing there (and the overflow has started to hit San Antonio as well). Some tech companies are running shuttle services between the two cities.  Housing has gone up quite a bit. Houses in Round Rock that were $175,000 a few years ago are now $350,000ish. In Austin proper, it's even worse.

If we were to move back to TX, I would go back to the Hill Country....Wimberley, Fredericksburg, somewhere in there...but I would choose my house location VERY carefully because flash flooding is a very real issue.  I would also have a solar array setup and some water storage and a pool with good shade cover.

[DawnM]

We left CA about 11 years ago and moved to NC.  I regret it.  But there have been reasons for us not to move back yet.  But a move is looking like it will be necessary soon, and I told DH CA or NC, but I am not moving to a 3rd state.  I work in public education and have 17 years in CA and 2 in NC.  I cannot start over again. I am too old.

NC went blue when we first moved here but the last 2 elections have been red for national and this last election was blue for governor.   I like the diversity, although sometimes both ends get too extreme for me.

NC does have humidity, but overall it isn't a bad place to live at all.  Mild winters for sure.  However, this area has gone higher in COL in the last few years.  I don't know what you are looking for there.

Signed,

The CA girl who wants to go back.

[Ravin]

1 hour ago, chiguirre said:

 

 

 

Ironically, Texas has the exact opposite problem. We're looking to build more reservoirs and flood containment in Houston and along the coast in general. Unfortunately, the governor is afraid to call the Texas Lege back into special session to use the Rainy Day Fund (this is really its name) because he's afraid that the Lt. Gov. will embarrass the state with more of his wackiness. Bad government is not a left/right problem, it's an entrenched majority party problem.

 

Texas has both problems, because parts of it rely on the Ogallala aquifer, which is still draining faster than it's replenished (this effects other states in the Great Plains region as well).

[LarlaB]

46 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom in VA said:

Does pot smoke smell worse than regular cigarettes? I don't know as I really haven't smelled it since college! But we have a lot of smokers in our area and I hate it. Especially driving behind people throwing their cigarette butts out the window.  Ugh. 

Walking in our neighborhood on some nights too there's a certain house that reeks of cigar smoke.  Glad we don't live next door to them!

 

Maybe not worse, but it’s a deeper, musky lingering smell where as cigarette smoke is more acrid.  Pot is pungent and just yuck.

I live in CO and we have 5 rental cars with no smoking policy...ironically, no one has smoked cigarettes, but a lot of “out of state renters” still smoke pot in the cars. And it smells.  And it’s stays. And it’s gross.

 

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, HeighHo said:

 

 here in NY, your high schooler has to pay for his DE classes, whether thats on the high school or college campus or via internet.  And there is no transportation midday back home, or transport to a DE provider.

 

 

When I lived in CA there was no transportation to DE classes.  Maybe things have changed.

And in NC there is no transportation.  And although we don't pay tuition, we still pay for all fees and books, at least as homeschoolers.  If you are in the PS system there are more options for DE.  

[LarlaB]

1 hour ago, Margaret in CO said:

Wyoming might be a good spot for you. Another reason to cross CO off the list, besides the COL due to CA moving here! is the fires. We currently have horrible air conditions because of the Horse Park Fire, the Burro Fire, the 416 Fire, and the Trail Mountain Fire. I'm sitting here, typing, trying to find enough oxygen to go do chores, but I'm really wheezing today. https://inciweb.nwcg.gov/  Check out the fire map, remembering the winds come from the west. 

As to politics, CO Springs and Boulder are not even in the same state! The entire state is moving blue, at a high rate. A current phenomenon is the second home market. Over 40% of the homes in our little valley are second homes, and the owners vote here as they've given up in the towns they actually live in. That skews everything liberal. 

 

I live north of Denver and totally agree with all of that!!  Absolutely moving to blue state as well- but I think there are pockets of red.  

I have asthma and allergies and thought CO would be a reprieve with low humidity.  It’s many times too low LOL and I have issues with air quality from smoke more than I’d have guessed. 

Also there has been a huge population increase here in the last 5-7 years.  Ironically, my three best friends are  transplants from CA.  A lot of my native (or long term) clients mutter and moan about their disdain for CA transplants.  I think it’s amusing hey make assumptions- it’s more that the area is so densely populated now and housing prices have been driven up.

[shinyhappypeople]

Idaho is definitely on our radar.  I completely forgot that we have friends (CA transplants) that moved to the Twin Falls area.  I definitely wouldn't move to Twin Falls because when we visited my hay fever went berserk, but higher elevations might be okay.  It's certainly beautiful.

[DawnM]

The population of California in 2005 was 36M.  the population in 2018 is right around 40M.  So, I am not sure the "Californians are leaving in droves" scenario is correct.

The population for the greater LA area has gone up to 1.5M additional people in that same amount of time.  

Now, I know this is just one website with data and it varies a bit, but last summer I was very surprised to see the traffic and how much worse it had gotten while I was gone.  Millions more people means many, many more cars on the road.

[Liz CA]

3 hours ago, Ravin said:

 

The present drought is more severe than is reasonably foreseeable when you don't take climate change and population shifts into account. To build better storage, they would have had to know and plan many decades ago for what was coming. Blaming the CURRENT government for what past government has failed to do seems rather unfair. Long-term planning is not the strong suit of ANY U.S. government. Our politics dictate this to a large degree.

 

10-15 years ago, it was clear that more storage was needed. There were some funds available and other resources could have been diverted toward addressing the water storage issue. This was not done. Subsequent governors (some tried but it went nowhere) were either not successful in getting it passed or didn't consider it necessary. Our current governor seems to be not interested at all in addressing water issues.

I am not saying that this should be a reason for all Californians to move but it has certainly made things more precarious. And then the Oroville issue...I live in a 150 mile radius of Oroville and those were some gnarly days in February / March of 2017. It would take too long to go into it here and do it even a measure of justice but there are multiple reports available online on how foreseeable this incident was and how - year after year - nothing was done about it.

[Liz CA]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

The population of California in 2005 was 36M.  the population in 2018 is right around $40M.  So, I am not sure the "Californians are leaving in droves" scenario is correct.

The population for the greater LA area has gone 1.5M additional people in that same amount of time.  

Now, I know this is just one website with data and it varies a bit, but last summer I was very surprised to see the traffic and how much worse it had gotten while I was gone.  Millions more people means many, many more cars on the road.

 

This is interesting in light of some recent findings that more immigrants are coming in but long-time residents are leaving. Don't know how accurate all of  these numbers are but interesting nevertheless.

[ElizabethB]

Idaho is pretty dry, so was Abiline, TX, the rest of Texas is pretty humid.  I think Utah and Wyoming and know Eastern Washington are dry.  Abilene is in the most conservative district in the United States. Eastern WA is conservative but the state is more liberal.  Also, there are some gang problems in Yakima, I don't know about the other cities.  Boise used to be bad for a few weeks for my pollen allergies but not since I've had allergy shots, and it was much less of a problem than the Seattle area or, the worst place I've lived for allergies, San Antonio, year round pollen seasons, they have a winter mountain cedar season.  The only place were I've had no pollen problems whatsoever was Colorado Springs, the high elevation made all the pollen not persist.  Boise is not quite a high enough elevation to produce that effect, but the pollen season is fairly short and not that bad, especially if you get allergy shots.

Here are some climate maps that might be helpful:

http://www.bonap.org/Climate Maps/ClimateMaps.html

You can PM me if you want, I have family living in most areas of the Pacific NW, including several areas of Washington state, the Portland area, and the Salt Lake City area, and most of Idaho.  We have lived in Abilene, TX, Little Rock, AR, Ohio, Virginia, Colorado Springs, Alabama, Illinois, Germany, Seattle, Santa Monica, and have family who have lived 1/2 of the year in Arizona, and we have visited them there.  We have also driven through a lot of areas and have friends in other states from our military travels.

[Pen]

3 hours ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Doesn't every state have sales tax?  The Phoenix tax rate is very close to what we pay where I live. 

No. Oregon doesn’t (perhaps others also don’t) but has other taxes on the high side. After living in New York City and California I was surprised to find that overall my tax in Oregon was as much or more. Also some items in stores seem to be higher so that no sales tax doesn’t help. For example a pair of jeans from Gap priced up in Oregon so that it is as much as jeans plus tax in California. 

[Lanny]

OP one factor to consider is that some of the states mentioned here do not have a Personal (State) Income Tax. I believe that will include Texas, Nevada and Wyoming.  Florida is also in that elite group, but it's quite Humid in Florida. Many many things for you to consider before making a decision.

[SeaConquest]

Another Californian who has zero desire to leave this beautiful state (I am a third generation Angeleno transplanted to San Diego). I am thrilled to see more conservatives moving out of state. Less gridlock in Sacramento. Hopefully, we will have single payer soon and can be a model to the rest of the country. as we are in so many other ways. I only wish that CA, WA, OR, and HI could secede to become a new Canadian province, so we wouldn't have to deal with the quagmire in DC. OP, I sincerely hope that you enjoy wherever your new home will be. ❤️

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Another Californian who has zero desire to leave this beautiful state (I am a third generation Angeleno transplanted to San Diego). I am thrilled to see more conservatives moving out of state. Less gridlock in Sacramento. Hopefully, we will have single payer soon and can be a model to the rest of the country. as we are in so many other ways. I only wish that CA, WA, OR, and HI could secede to become a new Canadian province, so we wouldn't have to deal with the quagmire in DC. OP, I sincerely hope that you enjoy wherever your new home will be. ❤️

Is becoming part of Canada just your personal idea or something wider spread?

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Pen said:

Is becoming part of Canada just your personal idea or something wider spread?

 

I don't think there are any organized efforts to become part of Canada. At least, not to my knowledge. I was mostly being cheeky, though.

[Lanny]

9 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I don't think there are any organized efforts to become part of Canada. At least, not to my knowledge. I was mostly being cheeky, though.

 

But there is a movement there, gathering signatures, to get Secession on the Ballot next November.  For me it was the High COL, the terrible traffic and the Smog that caused me to leave.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Lanny said:

 

But there is a movement there, gathering signatures, to get Secession on the Ballot next November.  For me it was the High COL, the terrible traffic and the Smog that caused me to leave.

 

I remember that there was a secessionist movement, but not to Canada, as I recall. There is also a movement to breakup the state, but none of these movements have any serious traction.

[BeachGal]

Boise is a very nice small city.

Montana is much colder in winter than many realize. They also do not salt many (all?) of the roads. I was there this past December to ski and the roads were plowed but icy in spots. Not ideal for mountain driving.

Bozeman is a mix of crunchy and conservative -- Californians and Cowboys -- so not sure you'd like that!

Housing is a bit pricy for many there, too. Very nice place that is growing fast, though. Good schools.

[bethben]

I live in Colorado Springs.  Mostly dry here.  If it's any encouragement, at least at this point, the city maintains a three year supply in reservoirs for the city so even though we had a dry winter and now a dry summer, we still have no water restrictions (don't know if that's a positive or negative...).  It is fairly conservative here for the most part and even with the weird marijuana laws Colorado citizens thought were a good thing at the time, you can only buy it medicinally in Colorado Springs.  We are growing very quickly.  An average house is probably going to be around the $300,000 - $350,000 with very decent property taxes.  The weather is great unless you like things green and lush.  

[DawnM]

16 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I remember that there was a secessionist movement, but not to Canada, as I recall. There is also a movement to breakup the state, but none of these movements have any serious traction.

 

Yes, breaking the state into two states has gotten a lot of talk through the years, particularly from the Northern CA folks.

As far as secession, that will never happen.  The US would never agree to give up 3/4 of its Western seaport.

[shinyhappypeople]

Just now, DawnM said:

 

Yes, breaking the state into two states has gotten a lot of talk through the years, particularly from the Northern CA folks.

As far as secession, that will never happen.  The US would never agree to give up 3/4 of its Western seaport.

Recently there was talk of Cal3, but I'm not sure what happened with that.  Will it make the November ballot?  Also, there's the State of Jefferson movement, which has been slowly gaining traction over many years. 

[KrissiK]

9 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Recently there was talk of Cal3, but I'm not sure what happened with that.  Will it make the November ballot?  Also, there's the State of Jefferson movement, which has been slowly gaining traction over many years. 

I would definitely support breaking the state into three. I like where the boundary lines fall.

[Another Lynn]

6 hours ago, Ellie said:

I love California, but in many ways, I'm glad I don't live there any longer. Mr. Ellie was born in San Diego, and we lived there until 1987, when we moved to San Jose because of a job. We left there in 2004 to come to Round Rock (just north of Austin) to be close to Mr. Ellie's mother, who was living in San Antonio in an assisted living facility. We don't love Texas with all our hearts, but we are content. The Hill Country is not as populated as Houston or San Antonio; it is also not nearly as humid, but it is still more humid than California. Real estate is reasonably priced. You can't beat the homeschool laws (there are none to speak of). It's very Southern in its culture, less so further into Austin.

Don't underestimate the impact of living somewhere less sunny than California can have on you. A friend who has lived in California most of her life sold her house and moved to Kentucky last January. She cannot bear it, and is moving back to California. Too many dreary, rainy, snowy days for her. You might like El Paso better than other parts of Texas.

This past winter was worse than usual for KY!

[DawnM]

13 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said:

Recently there was talk of Cal3, but I'm not sure what happened with that.  Will it make the November ballot?  Also, there's the State of Jefferson movement, which has been slowly gaining traction over many years. 

 

1 minute ago, KrissiK said:

I would definitely support breaking the state into three. I like where the boundary lines fall.

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea to break it up, however, I will need to read more.  Political, economic, and other ramifications concern me (esp. since my main retirement is tied up in the state!)

 

[Frances]

3 hours ago, Laurie said:

I would add this to your list of requirements...no legalized pot.    It's awful to have pothead neighbors.   If the houses are close together the insidious stench will get into your house even if all your windows are closed.  (Rooms with a dryer vent, bathroom fan, etc. can provide a way in...) 

I don’t know. I live in a state with legal pot and the only person I know who ever had an issue with this with neighbors had it long before pot was legal.

[shinyhappypeople]

5 minutes ago, KrissiK said:

I would definitely support breaking the state into three. I like where the boundary lines fall.

I'm so-so on Cal3.  The boundary lines don't work for me, unless we move to Fresno.  Still closer to family than AZ/ID/wherever, so there is that...  Basically, the SF bay area retains control of conservative (but less populous) No. California.  That's not going to go over well.  I seriously wouldn't mind making the greater Bay Area it's own state.  Divide the remaining state into North and South at the Merced or Stanislaus county/Fresno county lines.  There.  Fixed it!  ? It's all dreaming anyway.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Is becoming part of Canada just your personal idea or something wider spread?

While I don’t think anyone is seriously pursuing it, it’s definitely talked about out here. We even had it mentioned by our guide on a bike tour in Vancouver, BC.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, shinyhappypeople said:

I'm so-so on Cal3.  The boundary lines don't work for me, unless we move to Fresno.  Still closer to family than AZ/ID/wherever, so there is that...  Basically, the SF bay area retains control of conservative (but less populous) No. California.  That's not going to go over well.  I seriously wouldn't mind making the greater Bay Area it's own state.  Divide the remaining state into North and South at the Merced or Stanislaus county/Fresno county lines.  There.  Fixed it!  ? It's all dreaming anyway.

 

Hmmm....I just looked at the map.  I would still be more in favor of two states, split somewhere around where you are mentioning.  3 is awkward to me, at least the ones they have split it into.  

[Crimson Wife]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

The population of California in 2005 was 36M.  the population in 2018 is right around 40M.  So, I am not sure the "Californians are leaving in droves" scenario is correct.

The population for the greater LA area has gone 1.5M additional people in that same amount of time.  

Now, I know this is just one website with data and it varies a bit, but last summer I was very surprised to see the traffic and how much worse it had gotten while I was gone.  Millions more people means many, many more cars on the road.

Californians ARE leaving in droves- they're just getting replaced by immigrants and a smaller number of people from other states. According to the Census Bureau, 6 million people moved from CA to another state from 2007 to 2016 and 5 million moved from other states to CA. Since 2010, roughly 1.5 million immigrants have come from other countries to CA and between 2000-2009 the increase was roughly 2.5 million (source).

[Crimson Wife]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

Another Californian who has zero desire to leave this beautiful state (I am a third generation Angeleno transplanted to San Diego). I am thrilled to see more conservatives moving out of state. Less gridlock in Sacramento. Hopefully, we will have single payer soon and can be a model to the rest of the country. as we are in so many other ways. I only wish that CA, WA, OR, and HI could secede to become a new Canadian province, so we wouldn't have to deal with the quagmire in DC. OP, I sincerely hope that you enjoy wherever your new home will be. ❤️

 

Single-payer would be enough to drive us out of the state. I don't like all the premiums, deductibles, and co-pays we are saddled with under our private PPO plan, but at least we have excellent healthcare in return. Under single-payer we'd be paying at least as much in taxes if not more (the proposal that got voted down last year they were talking about a 15% payroll tax to fund) but we'd be stuck with crappy managed care. You think the top doctors who can work anywhere would settle for whatever low-ball pay the CA single-payer plan would offer them? They'd high-tail it out of the state in a flash, and I can't blame them for doing so.

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, Liz CA said:

 

This is interesting in light of some recent findings that more immigrants are coming in but long-time residents are leaving. Don't know how accurate all of  these numbers are but interesting nevertheless.

 

Well, that is a factor for sure.  

[Roadrunner]

I have several neighborhood skunks that invade my yard ever couple of days. I have never had an issue with pot smell from an actual person though. 

I would have loved to leave the state due to the housing prices, but we looked long and hard and in the end, nothing compares to CA, so we stay. Now I worry that my children will never be able to go to school or live anywhere but CA, because they can’t handle either heat, humidity, rain, cold, or snow. So yes, it’s a paradise here and it costs. 

But if I were to leave, I would head to Asheville, NC or in that vicinity. But that’s not a conservative town. For a conservative area with very low COL and wonderfully warm people, look at WV, but climate won’t be what you want.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Crimson Wife said:

 

Single-payer would be enough to drive us out of the state. I don't like all the premiums, deductibles, and co-pays we are saddled with under our private PPO plan, but at least we have excellent healthcare in return. Under single-payer we'd be paying at least as much in taxes if not more (the proposal that got voted down last year they were talking about a 15% payroll tax to fund) but we'd be stuck with crappy managed care. You think the top doctors who can work anywhere would settle for whatever low-ball pay the CA single-payer plan would offer them? They'd high-tail it out of the state in a flash, and I can't blame them for doing so.

 

You are so very lucky. I suspect a lot of high tech companies and banks offer similarly wonderful plans. For the rest of us though, and I believe we are the majority, single payer can mean the difference between life and death.

[KrissiK]

1 hour ago, Crimson Wife said:

 

Single-payer would be enough to drive us out of the state. I don't like all the premiums, deductibles, and co-pays we are saddled with under our private PPO plan, but at least we have excellent healthcare in return. Under single-payer we'd be paying at least as much in taxes if not more (the proposal that got voted down last year they were talking about a 15% payroll tax to fund) but we'd be stuck with crappy managed care. You think the top doctors who can work anywhere would settle for whatever low-ball pay the CA single-payer plan would offer them? They'd high-tail it out of the state in a flash, and I can't blame them for doing so.

It would basically be Medi-Cal for everyone.

[Katy]

32 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I have several neighborhood skanks that invade my yard ever couple of days. <snip>

 

Um... did you mean skunks?

[Roadrunner]

Just now, Katy said:

 

Um... did you mean skunks?

Yes! ?? off to correct

[Katy]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Yes! ?? off to correct

 

Thanks for the laugh.  I can't think of any appropriate reason that struck me as so funny, but it was the only time today I literally laughed until I cried.

[KrissiK]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

 

Thanks for the laugh.  I can't think of any appropriate reason that struck me as so funny, but it was the only time today I literally laughed until I cried.

I did, too. ????