Today Show firing

[PrincessMommy]

I, for one, am so glad to see these men, in their ivory towers, topple.    I hope they get every last one of them and kick them to the curb. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by PrincessMommy

[DawnM]

You got to wonder what Ann Curry is thinking right now.

 

I wish they brought her back.

 

I was thinking more about Katie Couric.  Wasnt' there some scandal with her leaving and NBC choosing Matt or something?  My memory is fuzzy right now.

Edited November 29, 2017 by DawnM

[shawthorne44]

Huh.....I am not a perp or a victim......so there is one.

 

But I am glad to see more speaking out!

 

Yes, I agree.  Bad premise.  I am neither a perp nor a victim and I've never been either.  I'd have tossed the book when it stated the premise.  

 

Although, I have wished for a "Safe for sensitive pregnant women" rating, like there are Safe for Children rating.   When pregnant, it seemed that every stinking book I read had children dying or in danger of dying.   So, I went to my stack of 'safe, happy place' books, which is Star Trek books.   One guess on the theme?   I bet you see this coming.   A whole entire planet's worth of children was in danger.   

[Lady Florida.]

I never liked Matt Lauer and couldn't understand all the fawning over him when he joined Today. They made him out to be such a wholesome nice guy and "all the women" thought he was so handsome, but I always thought he was arrogant. That said, I'm still disappointed. 

[umsami]

I was thinking more about Katie Couric.  Wasnt' there some scandal with her leaving and NBC choosing Matt or something?  My memory is fuzzy right now.

 

I thought (and I'm too lazy to Google) that she left to join CBS news and be the only woman or first woman who solely anchored the evening news???  But I could be imaging it.  I thought she was on CBS News when she did the infamous Palin interview.

[Lanny]

Apparently they fired him because the you-know-what was about to "hit the fan".   Apparently other news outlets were working the story and about to drop some bombshells.  

 

Fox was the first to go thru this, and now NBC and there was also another network that had this issue. So far, one of the major networks in the USA hasn't been hit with this kind of issue.

[Halftime Hope]

I was trying to read your post and between me and the Head of Homeland Security, (see avatar) I ended up quoting you when I didn't mean to!

 

Oooh, I like the Head of Homeland Security -- he has such soft-looking ears!!  (Watch, now someone will accuse me of impropriety for saying that outloud.)  :lol:

 

[Vida Winter]

They should bring back Jane Pauley to the Today Show.

[SKL]

None of this surprises me, and I don't frankly believe that it surprises any of these people's bosses or colleagues.

 

I'm glad for the avalanche of (partial) accountability, and hope it really does change the way would-be predators choose to behave.

 

That said, right now I'd love to see a list of people who did NOT do this sort of thing - just for my mental health.  :/

[bettyandbob]

They should bring back Jane Pauley to the Today Show.

 

 

She started at a time when I'm sure she has lots of experience with harassment. 

[bethben]

Has anyone else noticed that the flood gates seemed to have opened with all of this only after Hughe Hefner died?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited November 29, 2017 by bethben

[mathnerd]

Has anyone else noticed that the flood gates seemed to have opened with all of this only after Hughe Hefner died?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

It think that it started when the powerful "Kingmaker" Roger Ailes was fired from Fox. The fact that Rupert Murdoch had to take action on his very valuable employee signaled that things have changed for women. I think that it emboldened the victims of Bill Cosby to speak up. Then, Megyn Kelly spoke up openly and supported the victims at Fox. Then, Harvey Weinstein was outed. 

 

(BTW, all the men who have been outed so far look like creeps to me. I could be biased, but, I get a bad vibe looking at them.)

[ktgrok]

I, for one, am so glad to see these men in their ivory towers topple.    I hope they get every last one of them and kick them to the curb. 

 

Me too. I see people upset or whatever and meanwhile my first and only thought is, "Good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

[shawthorne44]

None of this surprises me, and I don't frankly believe that it surprises any of these people's bosses or colleagues.

 

I'm glad for the avalanche of (partial) accountability, and hope it really does change the way would-be predators choose to behave.

 

That said, right now I'd love to see a list of people who did NOT do this sort of thing - just for my mental health.  :/

 

I think that is why I've started my personal list, which contains one person on it.  

[Lady Florida.]

None of this surprises me, and I don't frankly believe that it surprises any of these people's bosses or colleagues.

 

I'm glad for the avalanche of (partial) accountability, and hope it really does change the way would-be predators choose to behave.

 

That said, right now I'd love to see a list of people who did NOT do this sort of thing - just for my mental health.  :/

 

My hope is that it will also change things in non celebrity situations. This same power dynamic with sexual harassment happens at all levels. We won't hear about the ones that happen in Anytown, USA but I hope women all over who are subjected to harassment will finally feel empowered to speak up.

[Miss Peregrine]

My hope is that it will also change things in non celebrity situations. This same power dynamic with sexual harassment happens at all levels. We won't hear about the ones that happen in Anytown, USA but I hope women all over who are subjected to harassment will finally feel empowered to speak up.

Speaking up.

 

I was touched inappropriately when I was 16. More than once by the boss's son.  I quit and ended up getting harassed by my mom and step-dad repeatedly for being "lazy." I didn't want to tell because I didn't think anyone would believe me and what if I was just imagining it. The effects have lasted for years. 

[Scarlett]

I have determined I don't put faith in any news caster.  Or anyone in a position of power.  I just know I don't really know them just because I watch them give scripted interviews on tv.  I am disturbed that there is so much lumping together of things from patting someone's behind to rape.  I see some of this as poor boundaries and a lot of it from a time when it was allowed and even encouraged.  And then some of this is outright predator behavior.  I don't think these men are all cut from the same cloth.

 

And although Charlie Rose is not my favorite I do believe from the long accounts I read that he was operating on the assumption that these young beautiful woman were returning his interest in them.  Where as Harvy  W seems like a dangerous rapist to me.

 

I don't know.  It is all so discouraging to me.

[Rachel]

Speaking up.

I’m sorry!

[eternalsummer]

There's a certain irony that he was the anchor breaking or discussing these stories over the last few weeks.

 

During the election when the story broke with the ET tapes from years ago and Billy Bush was fired he covered that too.

 

Yeah, and you've gotta think, how nervous was he while he was reporting this stuff?  Or how nervous is [x guy we haven't heard about yet] who is reporting it right now?  They must feel the breath of the executioner on their necks.

[Scarlett]

Speaking up.

 

 

 

I am sorry.  Have you been able to figure out why you thought your parents would not believe you?

 

My mom was raped at age 13 and she never told her parents.  She told no one until she told my dad when she was 21.  

[Miss Peregrine]

I love this tweet by Chrissy Teigen.

 

https://twitter.com/chrissyteigen/status/935851127790358529

 

"An SNL sketch where the reporters report on their own sexual misconduct and firings but they don't know it until live prompter"

 

 

[Miss Peregrine]

I am sorry.  Have you been able to figure out why you thought your parents would not believe you?

 

My mom was raped at age 13 and she never told her parents.  She told no one until she told my dad when she was 21.  

"Are you sure? It was probably an accident." That's what I imagined. He did set them up so that they could be accidental. I second-guessed myself. My parents were disconnected anyway.

[Scarlett]

"Are you sure? It was probably an accident." That's what I imagined. He did set them up so that they could be accidental. I second-guessed myself. My parents were disconnected anyway.

 

 

My mom is 73 so this was a long time ago.....but a family she baby sat for.....the husband took her home and on the way he stopped on a country road and raped her.  Her shoe fell out of the truck and he had to go back for it.  He told her if she told he would just tell her parents she wanted it.  She did quit the babysitting job but she never told.  And she was so naive and young that she feared she was pregnant...she had not yet started her periods...it was about 6 months later she finally started and was relieved to know she wasn't pregnant.  I am so sad for that little 13 year old girl who was scared she was pregnant for 6 months!  

[Miss Peregrine]

My mom is 73 so this was a long time ago.....but a family she baby sat for.....the husband took her home and on the way he stopped on a country road and raped her.  Her shoe fell out of the truck and he had to go back for it.  He told her if she told he would just tell her parents she wanted it.  She did quit the babysitting job but she never told.  And she was so naive and young that she feared she was pregnant...she had not yet started her periods...it was about 6 months later she finally started and was relieved to know she wasn't pregnant.  I am so sad for that little 13 year old girl who was scared she was pregnant for 6 months!  

:crying:

[DesertBlossom]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think this is all rather ironic after the long thread months back about Mike Pence and how ridiculous his standards were with regard to his interactions with women that were not his wife. So many of these women that are accusing men of inappropriate behavior were having one on one meetings with the man, or meeting them in hotel rooms for what they thought were professional meetings and it sounds like that's "normal," expected behavior in their workplace. They couldn't or wouldn't or didn't for some reason refuse the meeting or see that as a red flag. In fact, in the entertainment industry especially it sounds like those kinds of meetings (in hotels and such) were expected.  And yet because of the expectation that those kinds of "meetings" were okay it put them in situations that ended up being really dangerous. I think high standards for professional behavior protects men but it especially protects women in the workplace. 

 

And I'm not blaming women here. I'm blaming the whole culture of it all. We can't mock one person's insistence on maintaining propriety in his professional relationships and then feign disbelief when the lack of propriety in professional work situations turns out really, really badly when some use it as an opportunity to exploit and harass others. 

 

 

 

**Also, I realize that some of these scumbuckets were accosting women in elevators and other public places and that's a whole 'nother level of awfulness when men are that brash. I'm not talking about those a**holes. 

 

 

[DesertBlossom]

Yeah, and you've gotta think, how nervous was he while he was reporting this stuff?  Or how nervous is [x guy we haven't heard about yet] who is reporting it right now?  They must feel the breath of the executioner on their necks.

 

Except that a lot of them seem genuinely flabbergasted that their grimey behavior was considered inappropriate. It was news to C.K. Louis that women didn't actually like to see him play with himself. And several of these men say they thought the interactions were consensual. And they probably really did. Because they've been taught (by example in their industry or through porn or whatever) that women like being treated that way or are somehow okay with it. I would hope that all men are seriously reflecting on their own behavior and seeing it now through a new lens.

[lauraw4321]

2017: Dismantling the patriarchy prick by prick.

[ktgrok]

 They couldn't or wouldn't or didn't for some reason refuse the meeting or see that as a red flag. In fact, in the entertainment industry especially it sounds like those kinds of meetings (in hotels and such) were expected.  And yet because of the expectation that those kinds of "meetings" were okay it put them in situations that ended up being really dangerous. I think high standards for professional behavior protects men but it especially protects women in the workplace. 

 

And I'm not blaming women here. I'm blaming the whole culture of it all. We can't mock one person's insistence on maintaining propriety in his professional relationships and then feign disbelief when the lack of propriety in professional work situations turns out really, really badly when some use it as an opportunity to exploit and harass others. 

 

 

 

**Also, I realize that some of these scumbuckets were accosting women in elevators and other public places and that's a whole 'nother level of awfulness when men are that brash. I'm not talking about those a**holes. 

 

Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to have a private, one on one meeting, even in a hotel room, and NOT sexually harass or assault anyone. I've heard you can keep your pants on and everything!

 

So no, not harassing women shouldn't mean you can't have private meetings with them. It should mean you don't assault women while having those meetings. 

[ktgrok]

I dunno, Hillary basically slut-shamed the women Bill assaulted/took advantage of/raped.  The choice in that election was not between someone who stands up for women and someone who devalues them; it was between the male and female versions of terrible behavior towards women.  

 

I can understand not voting in the past election (I didn't) but I can't understand voting for Hillary because Trump was such a misogynist, etc.

 

Actually most of that is media hype. She said a few things, to a friend, privately, that the friend later published. This was a woman desperate to keep her marriage together who decided to believe her husband's version of events and then vented to a friend about it. I don't find that to be an example of outstanding behavior but it is a LOT different than bragging about assaulting people, bragging about walking in on nude teenagers during beauty pageants, etc. HUGE degree of difference. 

[Scarlett]

I hope he had a painful, slow demise. And is now getting actual justice in hell. That makes me furious on her behalf on SO many levels.

 

 

I know.   :crying:   She said it took her 20 years or more to FULLY realize how it was NOT in any way her fault.  And also that her parents WOULD have believed her.  

[Scarlett]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think this is all rather ironic after the long thread months back about Mike Pence and how ridiculous his standards were with regard to his interactions with women that were not his wife. So many of these women that are accusing men of inappropriate behavior were having one on one meetings with the man, or meeting them in hotel rooms for what they thought were professional meetings and it sounds like that's "normal," expected behavior in their workplace. They couldn't or wouldn't or didn't for some reason refuse the meeting or see that as a red flag. In fact, in the entertainment industry especially it sounds like those kinds of meetings (in hotels and such) were expected.  And yet because of the expectation that those kinds of "meetings" were okay it put them in situations that ended up being really dangerous. I think high standards for professional behavior protects men but it especially protects women in the workplace. 

 

And I'm not blaming women here. I'm blaming the whole culture of it all. We can't mock one person's insistence on maintaining propriety in his professional relationships and then feign disbelief when the lack of propriety in professional work situations turns out really, really badly when some use it as an opportunity to exploit and harass others. 

 

 

 

**Also, I realize that some of these scumbuckets were accosting women in elevators and other public places and that's a whole 'nother level of awfulness when men are that brash. I'm not talking about those a**holes. 

 

 

Wow....this is some of what I have been thinking but find difficult to put in words.  Well said.  I would like to see more propriety come back.  I know my husband is VERY careful about that stuff.  

[hornblower]

Men harassing women and men being afraid to be in the same room alone with women are two sides of the same problem.
The second is not a solution to the first.

It's just ongoing proof of patriarchy and objectification of women. 

[Scarlett]

Men harassing women and men being afraid to be in the same room alone with women are two sides of the same problem.

The second is not a solution to the first.

 

It's just ongoing proof of patriarchy and objectification of women. 

 

 

I had to read this like 3 times before I understood....but yes I agree and still think propriety would/could help the situation.  How could it hurt?

[Sneezyone]

I had to read this like 3 times before I understood....but yes I agree and still think propriety would/could help the situation. How could it hurt?

It could hurt by restricting opportunities for women professionally. It’s one thing to say you will not take meetings in your room or over dinner with anyone. It’s another thing entirely to restrict professional access/opportunities based solely on gender.

[laundrycrisis]

And now Garrison Keillor.

[Scarlett]

It could hurt by restricting opportunities for women professionally. It’s one thing to say you will not take meetings in your room or over dinner with anyone. It’s another thing entirely to restrict professional access/opportunities based solely on gender.

 

 

I had meetings with male bosses.  In their office.  Sometimes with the door closed but always with people right outside the door.  Usually there is no need to close a door for a meeting.  If so, maybe those glass office doors need to come back in fashion.  Shrug.

[Sneezyone]

I had meetings with male bosses. In their office. Sometimes with the door closed but always with people right outside the door. Usually there is no need to close a door for a meeting. If so, maybe those glass office doors need to come back in fashion. Shrug.

Harassment isn’t just between genders. My bestie’s tormenter was/is a woman. Open doors and different standards for men and women won’t eliminate harassment. Only self-control and professionalism can do that.

[Zebra]

I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I think this is all rather ironic after the long thread months back about Mike Pence and how ridiculous his standards were with regard to his interactions with women that were not his wife. So many of these women that are accusing men of inappropriate behavior were having one on one meetings with the man, or meeting them in hotel rooms for what they thought were professional meetings and it sounds like that's "normal," expected behavior in their workplace. They couldn't or wouldn't or didn't for some reason refuse the meeting or see that as a red flag. In fact, in the entertainment industry especially it sounds like those kinds of meetings (in hotels and such) were expected.  And yet because of the expectation that those kinds of "meetings" were okay it put them in situations that ended up being really dangerous. I think high standards for professional behavior protects men but it especially protects women in the workplace. 

 

And I'm not blaming women here. I'm blaming the whole culture of it all. We can't mock one person's insistence on maintaining propriety in his professional relationships and then feign disbelief when the lack of propriety in professional work situations turns out really, really badly when some use it as an opportunity to exploit and harass others. 

 

 

 

**Also, I realize that some of these scumbuckets were accosting women in elevators and other public places and that's a whole 'nother level of awfulness when men are that brash. I'm not talking about those a**holes. 

 

FWIW I am not a Mike Pence fan, but I completely agree with you.   Society needs to catch on to the fact that acting like a "prude" is preferable to the alternative.   Being careful, keeping things out in the open, protects everyone.

[Zebra]

Harassment isn’t just between genders. My bestie’s tormenter was/is a woman. Open doors and different standards for men and women won’t eliminate harassment. Only self-control and professionalism can do that.

 

You're right, but the fact remains that the vast majority of these cases are men harassing women.   

[Scarlett]

Harassment isn’t just between genders. My bestie’s tormenter was/is a woman. Open doors and different standards for men and women won’t eliminate harassment. Only self-control and professionalism can do that.

 

 

I agree it doesn't need to be limited to opposite genders.  I think part of professionalism is open doors.

[justasque]

What is most stunning to me is it often seems to me (emphasis on "seems") that those with the most to lose are the ones who behave the worst.  I don't get that.  It's like I dunno is there some sort of extra thrill in it or are they extra stuck on themselves and think they are invincible?  

 

When you're a star, they let you do it.  Or so one self-described star has opined.

[Sneezyone]

You're right, but the fact remains that the vast majority of these cases are men harassing women.

True. It’s hard to attribute that to masculine nature in general tho. Men are the primary occupants of powerful positions (more opportunity) and have been socialized to believe their advances are or should be a welcome form of flattery (zeitgeist).

[DesertBlossom]

Believe it or not, it is entirely possible to have a private, one on one meeting, even in a hotel room, and NOT sexually harass or assault anyone. I've heard you can keep your pants on and everything!

 

So no, not harassing women shouldn't mean you can't have private meetings with them. It should mean you don't assault women while having those meetings. 

 

I understand what you're saying. But it appears that in a lot of industries and professions meeting in hotel rooms and other private locations is expected and normal behavior. But what if a woman isn't comfortable with that and refuses such private meetings or requests more public locations? What if it jeopardizes her career opportunities because she didn't feel comfortable with what is considered the status quo? Women aren't going to know if they are meeting with a Weinstein or not and they deserve the opportunity to protect themselves.

[Sneezyone]

I understand what you're saying. But it appears that in a lot of industries and professions meeting in hotel rooms and other private locations is expected and normal behavior. But what if a woman isn't comfortable with that and refuses such private meetings or requests more public locations? What if it jeopardizes her career opportunities because she didn't feel comfortable with what is considered the status quo? Women aren't going to know if they are meeting with a Weinstein or not and they deserve the opportunity to protect themselves.

Unfortunately, public locations won’t save you either. Jason Bateman’s wife was groped in public, as they both attended a premier party hosted by a notable hotelier. It’s not anything that women are doing or not doing. It’s the attitude that powerful ppl can do as they please, that sexual advances are appropriate at work, and that recipients should be gratified by this kind of attention.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Sneezyone

[SquirrellyMama]

First comment I read on the FB news story blamed women for being overly sensitive and ruining all these fine men. Grrrr.

 

OMG, I was listening to the radio the other day, and a lady was talking about a friend of hers that got fired. As she put it he was the office "pest". You know the type, "always hugging people, and he did kiss someone who didn't want it, but that's it".   :cursing:  :banghead:

 

My dh said, "Office pest? Sounds more like the office stalker."

 

Kelly

[shawthorne44]

It could hurt by restricting opportunities for women professionally. It’s one thing to say you will not take meetings in your room or over dinner with anyone. It’s another thing entirely to restrict professional access/opportunities based solely on gender.

 

A friend of mine who was a partner with one of the big-whatever consulting companies said that young woman were definitely harmed professionally by the fear.  He said the way things worked was to invite a newb along on a business trip to 'carry your briefcase'.   At first that and gruntwork is all they do, but they are in the on the meetings, get to know the customer.  Eventually they take over the client, and clients is how you get ahead in these companies.   He said many, him included were reluctant to invite a woman to do that, because then it would mean an older man with a younger woman alone on a business trip.  At his company, just an accusation of wrong-doing would be career death.   He is a good guy, with an amazing dynamic wife, he'd pick woman newbs to compensate when there was a multi-person trip.  But, not everyone did, and also without thinking about it, many partners picked the people that they'd been on trips with before.   

[DesertBlossom]

Unfortunately, public locations won’t save you either. Jason Bateman’s wife was groped in public, as they both attended a premier party hosted by a notable hotelier. It’s not anything that women are doing or not doing. It’s the attitude that powerful ppl can do as they please, that sexual advances are appropriate at work, and that recipients should be gratified by this kind of attention.

I completely agree with you. And while I sincerely hope that all this attention and public shaming helps to curb this predatory behavior, it's still okay to take steps to protect yourself.

[gardenmom5]

The comments on the Today Show Facebook post make me sad. The number of people who don’t seem to understand that it would have to be very bad, and corroborated for NBC to fire someone with such a big contract is really surprising. I agree with those who’ve said the network has probably known about improper behavior for a long time, and in the current climate couldn’t afford to hide it anymore.

 

reports are he had a button under his desk that would lock his door.   NBC HAD to know about that!  

[Sneezyone]

I completely agree with you. And while I sincerely hope that all this attention and public shaming helps to curb this predatory behavior, it's still okay to take steps to protect yourself.

Certainly. I just hope that we’ll work harder to change the culture and behavioral expectations of all ppl. at work before preemptively stifling our own professional opportunities. I mean, atthe end of the day, I don’t think most folks are harassers and those that are aren’t likely to be put off by individual protective measures. I’m thinking of men walking into ladies’ dressing rooms or women brushing their chests against/leaning over a male coworker. Harassers gonna harass.

[goldberry]

I had some awful conversation with my mother over the Thanksgiving holiday.  She is 84 and has dementia, so I can only hope that was part of it. She was also sexually abused as a teen and absorbed internally that her primary value was sexual.  So there's that also. 

 

But she thinks it's all on the women.  Men are "just that way" and it's up to the women to say no and to refuse to be part of it. Women participate too by using sex to their advantage, and if they just stopped, it would all be okay.  She also thinks since that's just the way men are, nothing will change. She acknowledged my dad was not that way, but still thinks "most men".    

 

My dad's opinion (86 but no dementia) was he is glad it is coming out, but the first few that get proven to be false accusations will just be used to shut down the whole conversation.  The people who don't want to believe it's a problem will continue not believing it.  

 

Rather depressing views from the older generation in my family!