s/o: How organized were classes in your high school?

[PeachyDoodle]

Sorry for the awkward title -- couldn't think of anything better, LOL.

 

On the band thread, a number of people mentioned that course expectations should be clearly spelled out in the course description, syllabus, etc. It made me wonder: In your experience, were high school classes that well-organized?

 

I remember having a syllabus for exactly ONE class in high school -- AP US History. Aside from that, I doubt I would have known what a syllabus even was until college. There was never anything resembling a course catalog or even course descriptions. Maybe there simply weren't enough course options to warrant it; we just kind of knew what the classes were. This was 20 years ago, in a small rural high school, so admittedly things may have changed since then.

 

Just curious about others' experiences.

[OneStepAtATime]

I didn't see a syllabus until college. Maybe there was some sort of course catalogue but I don't remember one. We just did whatever the teacher said was needed. I do recall getting to go into various elective classes to ask questions of the teacher and current students to see if it might be a good fit. No syllabus though.

[Murphy101]

Most of my classes in middle school and high school had a course syllabus. The exceptions were usually non academic classes like home ec or PE.

 

Now. Whether teachers followed their own syllabus or made exceptions for some students and not others or had syllabi that was stupid? Or whether students ever looked twice at the syllabus? That's a whole other topic.

[Murphy101]

Nm

Dbl post

Edited May 15, 2017 by Murphy101

[Bluegoat]

It wasn't super detailed.  Most classes gave some kind of basic outline, but not always a handout.

 

I didn't have very complicated ones in university either, often none.  Actually, I was chatting with my friend today who works in the department we studied in, and he was telling me another friend who we took classes in and teaches there sometimes uses old syllabi from those classes as a joke.  The rules around them are so detailed and strict now, he said he finds it quite stressful. 

 

He also mentioned that starting next year, every syllubus pased out has to say at the top how the university stands on indiginous land.  I'm not sure what that is supposed to do, maybe make the students decide to drop the class and demand it be given back?

Edited May 15, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Barb_]

Never heard of a syllabus until college. We took tests, turned in homework, or didn't, showed up every day and participated, or slept, or skipped. and got a grade at the end. I think I felt pretty free to check my running total in the grade book any time, but I also don't remember bothering to do so.

[Barb_]

It wasn't super detailed. Most classes gave some kind of basic outline, but not always a handout.

 

I didn't have very complicated ones in university either, often none. Actually, I was chatting with my friend today who works in the department we studied in, and he was telling me another friend who we took classes in and teaches there sometimes uses old syllabi from those classes as a joke. The rules around them are so detailed and strict now, he said he finds it quite stressful.

 

He also mentioned that starting next year, every syllubus pased out has to say at the top how the university stands on indiginous land. I'm not sure what that is supposed to do, maybe make the students decide to drop the class and demand it be given back?

It's rules such as these that make me understand some of the conservative rants about academia. I swear some unis go out of their way to make themselves a target of ridicule.

[Arcadia]

Not from the US and very much teach to the national exams.

 

9th and 10th graders if not in IB or international schools typically prepare for the GCE 'O' Levels exams and the syllabus is online at http://www.seab.gov.sg/pages/nationalExaminations/GOL/School_Candidates/2017_GCE_O.asp

 

11th and 12th graders if not in IB or international schools typically prepare for the GCE 'A' Levels exams and the syllabus is online at http://www.seab.gov.sg/pages/nationalexaminations/gal/school_candidates/2017_gce_a.asp

 

ETA:

6th grade national exams syllabus if any one is curious

http://www.seab.gov.sg/pages/nationalExaminations/PSLE/syllabus.asp

Edited May 15, 2017 by Arcadia

[FaithManor]

We had handouts on the first day for every class. It outlined expectations, non negotiable policies, grading scale, how assignments were weighted, etc. Not every assignment was listed, but the no no things to miss/skip were clarified in these hand outs. So there really weren't any big surprises. But the handouts were not as detailed as college course syllabi.

[Barb_]

Those of you with syllabi in the US, were these private schools?

[slackermom]

I went to two different (expensive) private high schools, and at both schools teachers handed out fairly detailed information about classes at the beginning of each term. They would spell out what was covered in the class and how the grade was going to be calculated. Sometimes small changes were made during the term, such as a quiz being tossed out, or offering an opportunity to earn extra credit, but I don't recall any changes that added requirements. I think my classmates would have carried out a mutiny.

[slackermom]

I do think the fact that I attended pricy private college prep programs meant that the expectations had to be very clear. I think about 25% my senior class went to Ivy league schools. Intense stuff.

[Guest]

We had syllabi in high school for all classes. Everything was handed out in writing (no online communication back then) during the first week expectation wise with signatures by parents and students required acknowledging them for each class. Not sure what happened if you didn't turn it in- I never tested that. They weren't overly burdensome. Just rubrics, class rules, assignments laid out so no one could later say they didn't realize the final counted for xx% or whatever. This was in the early 90's. Largish public school- say 4-5,000 students in all. Very well funded- or was at least until the whole TX Robin Hood funding thing came into play. But I graduated before that had much impact. They had their act very together at the time, with a great counseling department to help with college apps, etc. I would say it was an extremely well run public school.

Edited May 15, 2017 by texasmom33

[FaithManor]

Those of you with syllabi in the US, were these private schools?

Public for me.

[Guest]

This is a side note, but my experience when dd was in public school, was that the more electronic everything became, the worse communication actually became. Teachers would take weeks to respond to emails, post grades or anything else. I much preferred being able to send a written note to a teacher, or receiving one back. Or seeing actual graded papers so I knew what was going on. By junior high you had to request a meeting AT the school to even see grades tests as they weren't allowed to leave the class. Dd also seldom had clearly outlined class syllabi, which wouldn't be odd for junior high except for the fact that the schools acted as if your future was determined by which 6th grade math you selected. Anyway, I just think the contrast has been interesting to see as a parent. My public school experience was far more organized as a student than my daughters was.

Edited May 15, 2017 by texasmom33

[73349]

I went to two public US high schools in the early-mid '90s.

 

The first one offered a detailed, professionally printed course catalog with a paragraph blurb about each course. Basic expectations about the course were provided the first day--I don't recall details about oral vs. written.

 

The second school offered only a course listing, and that appeared to be far out of date (i.e., I'm don't think they offered all the tracks & classes listed.). Expectations, again, were provided the first day of class. I think classes like AP History had a full written syllabus; math teachers might've just given an estimate of how many tests a quarter and how much homework counted, little else.

 

At both schools, choir teachers specified the requirement to attend the concert(s). The second school required us to sit for the AP exams at the end of AP courses (district paid for them), and that was made clear when we signed up. I don't remember any course having any surprising requirements.

[maize]

9th and 10th I'm pretty sure we had no syllabus. Certainly not for band.

 

11th and 12th I was at a different school., in an IB program. Small school, classes quite small. I don't remember a syllabus for each class but my memory may be faulty; classes were mostly well organized and expectations were clear.

[Garga]

I graduated in 1990 from a public high school.

 

I dimly remember maaaaybe something about how important test scores were compared to other assignments, or if there would be a major paper required for the class. I don't think it was for all classes, though. And I'm not sure if it was on paper, or just the First Day of School Speech that teachers give.

 

I never even heard of the word syllabus until I went to college when I was 32 years old.

 

ETA: I'm trying to pull up memories from over 27 years ago, but I think we probably did have a piece of paper telling us things like what percentage of the grade was for homework vs tests. Not in all classes, but I feel like I can see the purplish ink from the ditto machine with some blurry percentages on them for a few classes. :)

Edited May 15, 2017 by Garga

[MEmama]

No. I didn't know what they were until college. We didn't have course books or get to choose our classes, either, except electives. As far as I know, we we were just automatically slotted into whatever the "next" class was that was appropriate. There really wasn't any student input.

 

My son's high school experience is totally different already, and he doesn't even start until fall. So far it's a huge advancement over what I experienced--students and faculty seem much more engaged. I hope that remains true.

[athomeontheprairie]

I also thought that was odd.

We didn't even have course descriptions on the course catalog.

I would have benefited from forensics, but both my parents and I thought it meant a crime type class, so I never enrolled. A description would be helpful!

A syllabus, unheard of. I never had one until college.

 

My high school was just over 450 people.

[Garga]

There was never a course description. A person could pick an elective each year from a list. Other than that, you were on a few tracks depending on your grades and the school assigned your classes.

[PeachyDoodle]

There was never a course description. A person could pick an elective each year from a list. Other than that, you were on a few tracks depending on your grades and the school assigned your classes.

 

That was more or less my experience too. We turned in a list of preferences, I think, for electives and such. We did have a chance to review our schedules in advance and request changes. Most classes had only one section, though, so if it was something you really needed/wanted, you might have to give up something else.

 

I don't remember getting anything detailed about how grades would be determined in each class, but maybe we did? I just recall doing assignments as they were made and considering them all equally required, unless we were given optional extra credit or something.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

No syllabus until college. We did what the teachers told us to do. (I don't mean this as snarky- it's just how the course expectations were in all classes. )

 

 

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[EmilyGF]

No syllabus until college that I remember. And I went to an excellent public school.

 

Both band and choir were really strict about requiring a lot of out-of-school work including retreats, competitions, and concerts.

Emily

[Tanaqui]

In high school, pretty much all our classes had a syllabus and a contract. In retrospect, making us sign "contracts" was seriously dodgy. It's not like we could opt out.

[DawnM]

Private school, rated very high, gave me excellent prep for college.......and no syllabus for any class.  No rubrics, no grading scales.......

Edited May 15, 2017 by DawnM

[Farrar]

No proper syllabus for most classes, but classes always gave a sort of first day handout with a pretty clear grade breakdown. Such and such percent of your final grade would be homework, such and such would be tests, such and such quizzes, such and such the exam, such and such the big project with a group for this and that.

 

This was in the early 90's. Public school, but a competitive magnet.

 

I've taught and I can't imagine the conniptions that some parents and all the really grade serious students would have if they didn't have that information. Otherwise you're just working in the dark. You don't know what is worth what.

[Farrar]

I'm really surprised reading this from people. I can't imagine working through a class where you had no concept what was worth anything. Like, I remember getting this basic information for PE classes even. You'll have to meet these benchmarks, your attendance is worth this much, there will be written tests about health worth this much.

 

The unfairness of just working and doing whatever the teachers say and not knowing what was a throwaway assignment and what was actually, say, a quarter of your grade, would have made me go nuts. Like, I think I literally would have suffered mentally from that. 

[Barb_]

This is a side note, but my experience when dd was in public school, was that the more electronic everything became, the worse communication actually became. Teachers would take weeks to respond to emails, post grades or anything else. I much preferred being able to send a written note to a teacher, or receiving one back. Or seeing actual graded papers so I knew what was going on. By junior high you had to request a meeting AT the school to even see grades tests as they weren't allowed to leave the class. Dd also seldom had clearly outlined class syllabi, which wouldn't be odd for junior high except for the fact that the schools acted as if your future was determined by which 6th grade math you selected. Anyway, I just think the contrast has been interesting to see as a parent. My public school experience was far more organized as a student than my daughters was.

I agree with this! And furthermore I think email, etc takes the ownership of the grades away from the student and burdens the parent with goalkeeping. It's way too much information, imo. As a parent, I believe I should be left out of my children's grades until there is a problem.

[Farrar]

It may be that is handled at  the school.  No one has a syllabus.  But in high school, tests are worth 80 percent of the grade and daily grades 20 Percent for the nine weeks.  For the semester grade each nine weeks is 40% and the final is 20%.   For middle school the tests are 50% and the daily grades are 50%.    That is school policy.  So there isn't a need to spell it out.

 

This was my first year.  I made myself a syllabus, but I'm glad I didn't hand it out.  I changed so much stuff, and there were so many activities ( homecoming week) or the day all of student council was out for field day.  Trying to write down exactly what I was going to do would have been worthless...my own copy sure was.  However, at least I sort of had a plan. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Most high schools don't mandate that tests be worth a certain amount, though I have seen policies that mandate that something - usually homework - not be worth more than a certain amount. Some classes need to include grades that aren't tests and homework for example. It wouldn't make sense for all classes to have the same percentage. A good language class, for example, will usually include a class grade because that's when you actually practice speaking, which is pretty essential. If a school said all courses must be 80% grade for tests and 20% homework, then most teachers would make things that don't look like tests into tests, like projects, papers, an averaged participation grade, etc. etc. and then the whole thing would be rendered useless information.

 

I've taught in many situations. The syllabus absolutely changes. And that's fine. There's really a couple of elements here - I think students need to know what their grade is going to consist of. Otherwise, it's not a fair grade. I don't think they need to know what all the assignments and readings are going to be at the start of the course. It might be nice, but it's okay for teachers to change things up in response to the students (or to being new at the course).

[Sk8ermaiden]

Yes, most academic classes had a syllabus in my public, enormous, not fancy, high school. We sat down with our counselors to pick the schedule for next year and had power over that. I don't remember seeing a course catalog though. Maybe a listing of subjects in the handbook? You just kind of knew what was on offer, for the most part, or could ask the counselor at your meeting.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Sk8ermaiden

[Barb_]

I think I remember teachers standing up the first day and outlining which aspects were to be worth which percentage of our grades. I'm pretty sure we were free to take notes or not. Maybe some teachers gave us a handout with a grade breakdown? I'm certain no one referred to it as a syllabus because I remember getting the giggles the first time I heard the word. I thought the instructor had made it up, because it sounded so ridiculous. It sounded like something Sylvester the cat would threaten tweety bird with.

 

I didn't really care one way or another about grades. My parents didn't really know how to encourage me in regards to college except to tell me I could do anything I wanted to do. So I was happy just sort of skating until I got bored with skating in 11th grade and decided to pull A's. Even then I didn't care about the grading system because I just decided to get A's on everything I turned in. Maybe that's why I still don't care about my kids' grades. But I can see how a lack of info could drive a different personality nuts.

[Farrar]

Yes, we give either a test grade or a daily grade.  So I let them know what it is.  I count major test papers as a test grade and projects as a test grade.   That is just the way we do it. 

 

But then that presumably is something you have to communicate up front to students. Tests, major papers, and projects count as tests. These things count as daily grades. They're worth this much. Because another teacher may have a different take. Say, that projects could as two tests or that the first draft of a paper is a homework grade or that running around the track in under five minutes is a test grade or that reading quizzes count as homework or speaking Spanish for the whole class counts as a daily homework grade or whatever. Just knowing this 80-20 thing probably isn't that enlightening given the vast range of assignments that teachers give.

[BarbecueMom]

I remember most of my classes in high school having a syllabus. Grading scale, course expectations, teacher-specific rules, materials and supplies needed, important dates. First day of each year/semester, I had to take them home, sign the back page, have my mom sign the back page (to prove we had both seen it) and hand it back in. I don't specifically remember the ones for band, but I must have had them. I graduated with nine music credits (two band classes per year, then three senior year) so it all kinda runs together in my head by now.

[Barb_]

I graduated in 1990 from a public high school.

 

I dimly remember maaaaybe something about how important test scores were compared to other assignments, or if there would be a major paper required for the class. I don't think it was for all classes, though. And I'm not sure if it was on paper, or just the First Day of School Speech that teachers give.

 

I never even heard of the word syllabus until I went to college when I was 32 years old.

 

ETA: I'm trying to pull up memories from over 27 years ago, but I think we probably did have a piece of paper telling us things like what percentage of the grade was for homework vs tests. Not in all classes, but I feel like I can see the purplish ink from the ditto machine with some blurry percentages on them for a few classes. :)

This most closely resembles my experience, Garga. Large public high school, Florida, class of '87.

[EmseB]

If not a syllabus, even in middle school we had class expectations sheets that spelled out grades, tests, homework and what everything was worth. So it was basically a syllabus without calling it that.  I do remember teachers that didn't hand out something like that and they were not very well liked, in part because people thought the grades they got were unfair, often because the requirements were not clearly stated.  I went to regular ole public schools in CA.

 

In band, I always knew what performances were required for my grade at the beginning of the year. I don't know how anyone could make plans otherwise unless this was the case.

[TechWife]

I attended a public high school. I don't recall ever seeing a syllabus in high school. Some of my college courses had a basic syllabus, but nothing as detailed as they are today. 

[Zinnia]

We had them in public high school (graduated 25 years ago), but I went to h.s. in a college town. Lots of new teachers, and things like that tend to bleed over.

 

My friends and I knew our grades/averages at any given pount, and we knew exactly what we needed to make on every assignment to keep our grade/pull it up/etc. My dh thinks this is insane. LOL. He is comission based, and he still has no idea what he makes until he gets the check. But my 9th grade self knew every detail of grading for all 7 classes like the back of my hand.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Zinnia

[Barb_]

We had them in public high school (graduated 25 years ago), but I went to h.s. in a college town. Lots of new teachers, and things like that tend to bleed over.

Hmm, that's a good point. I'm trying to figure out the huge mismatch of experience. It's unusual to do one of these informal polls and no pattern at all emerges.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Barb_

[Rachel]

Two different high schools, no syllabus in any class at either one. I did usually know what percent was required to get a certain letter grade. I only remember a couple of teachers telling us ahead of time what percent of the final grade was based on tests, homework, or papers.

[Amber in SJ]

I went to a tiny, rural public high school in the mid to late 80's.  I was on the college prep track.  If you were on the college prep track there weren't really electives, but you would have choices.  On that track you would take foreign language 1 & 2.  Your choices were French or Spanish.  I hate to say it but only the kids on the regular or "non-college prep" track had room for electives like Shop, Autoshop, Ceramics, Band, Yearbook Photography, Home Ec or Agriculture (did I mention the rural part?)  If you were on the college prep track you took AP Calculus, AP Bio 2, AP US History 2 and so on as your electives.

 

As for a syllabus, each academic class had a handout on the first day with a description of the class, and a breakdown of how grades would be calculated.  For example; Homework 25%, Attendance & Participation 25%, Weekly Quizzes 25% and Midterm & Final 25%.  Often there would be an extra credit policy or grade curve policy explanation, as well as tardy or absence policies, particularly for classes right after lunch because we had an open campus and sometimes it was reeeeeeeeealllllly difficult to get back for Chem :)

 

I didn't think this was unusual until I moved far away to go to a university & my roommate, who had gone to a private Christian high school, had no idea what a syllabus was.

 

I write one for each of the high school classes I homeschool.  I keeps me on track :)  My kids ignore it until I remind them that if they do A work but only complete 1/2 the assignments they still aren't getting an A.

 

Amber in SJ

 

 

[Ellie]

Sorry for the awkward title -- couldn't think of anything better, LOL.

 

On the band thread, a number of people mentioned that course expectations should be clearly spelled out in the course description, syllabus, etc. It made me wonder: In your experience, were high school classes that well-organized?

 

I remember having a syllabus for exactly ONE class in high school -- AP US History. Aside from that, I doubt I would have known what a syllabus even was until college. There was never anything resembling a course catalog or even course descriptions. Maybe there simply weren't enough course options to warrant it; we just kind of knew what the classes were. This was 20 years ago, in a small rural high school, so admittedly things may have changed since then.

 

Just curious about others' experiences.

 

I never heard of a "syllabus" until I attended a Basic Youth Conflicts seminar, after I was all grown up. Never saw course descriptions. There wouldn't have been much of a point, since we were taking required classes; even electives were required, KWIM?

 

[J-rap]

To tell the truth, high school seems so long ago that I don't even remember!

[Arctic Bunny]

I'm really surprised reading this from people. I can't imagine working through a class where you had no concept what was worth anything. Like, I remember getting this basic information for PE classes even. You'll have to meet these benchmarks, your attendance is worth this much, there will be written tests about health worth this much.

 

The unfairness of just working and doing whatever the teachers say and not knowing what was a throwaway assignment and what was actually, say, a quarter of your grade, would have made me go nuts. Like, I think I literally would have suffered mentally from that.

My oldest DS really does suffer from it. To work on an assignment to find out it's meaningless is discouraging, unfair, and teaches nothing about prioritizing time and effort.

 

For example: His science teacher spent 7 months putting an emphasis on the appearance of assignments (neatness, organization, style) over content. So when the assignment was to design a booklet to make observations about the night sky for a month, he worked hard on it, and was so proud. Turns out it was out of 30. One mark for each page that had markings on it. So the nights he missed counted as zero. Design, worth zero. Actual content and observations, worth zero He must have been the only kid too honest to mark something down whether he actually remembered or not.

Meanwhile a health PowerPoint presentation gets more marks for using different transitions and effects. Just what the world needs.

Yeah! We moved schools! Again!

[Tap]

No syllubus till college, but my kids have had basic ones for every class (including PE, but not as a TA) they had in high school.  Syllabus(s) are sent home and signed by the parent the first week of school and are considered a homework assignment.  I know at least one of my daughters teachers, even had a fill in the blank quiz for the students to make sure they actually read and understood it.  LOL

 

 

They aren't detailed with every assignment, but have the expectations, and basic class information on them. DD18 has had a couple that listed out assignment/exam schedules but they weren't set in stone, due to bad weather/closures etc.

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Tap

[LucyStoner]

Those of you with syllabi in the US, were these private schools?

There was a course syllabus and "contract" for each of my classes. There weren't insanely detailed but the grading policies for the school were very clear. No credit was awarded for less than 85%. Most classes has papers and projects.

 

This was a small public high school I started attending in 1994. It was a magnet school. Teachers were fairly flexible about alternative arrangements for students who needed them.

Edited May 15, 2017 by LucyStoner

[Murphy101]

Those of you with syllabi in the US, were these private schools?

LOLOL

 

No

 

Crappy (imo) public school.

 

Like other posters, the syllabus wasn't complicated. Basic expections of student. Ways to meet with teacher. Study help suggestions. General points to assignments/test ratio and major due dates, how to turn in late work or extra credit. That kind of thing. Teachers would go over it on the first day and reference it at times during the year.

 

How much is this test worth?

Look at your syllabus

 

I didn't turn it in on time, can I turn it in now?

Look at your syllabus.

[athomeontheprairie]

I'm really surprised reading this from people. I can't imagine working through a class where you had no concept what was worth anything. Like, I remember getting this basic information for PE classes even. You'll have to meet these benchmarks, your attendance is worth this much, there will be written tests about health worth this much.

 

The unfairness of just working and doing whatever the teachers say and not knowing what was a throwaway assignment and what was actually, say, a quarter of your grade, would have made me go nuts. Like, I think I literally would have suffered mentally from that.

Maybe there a misunderstanding of the term.

This we were given. For nearly every class that I remember.

But that's different from a detailed syllabus that lists what the class will be doing, books, all assignments etc. That I wasn't given until college

[HTRMom]

I graduated from a private prep school in 2008. Every class had a syllabus. Typically included the books covered, major things to learn, dates of tests, rules, grading systems, when and how to get extra help. Just like a college syllabus.

Edited May 15, 2017 by HTRMom

[scoutingmom]

We had course descriptions. Near the start of year we would be told grading system for the course. Say, 40% tests 20% final exam, 20% homework, 20% project. Or whatever. Grade 12 core subjects had a teacher mark (50%) and a departmental exam mark (50%). I think this was discussed in class at the start, along with teacher preference type rules. If, one class no food allowed. Another, gum was allowed (if quiet). Another, food was fine. Another food was fine if you had some for the whole class and double for him. (He also rented pencils and calculators).

 

I didn't take any classes with outside requirements.

 

Gym class (required for grade 10 to graduate) was nuts. A huge percentage of our marks (40%? 50%?) was based on your place in a race (3k long maybe? Or 5k?). One day in spring everyone was off school for the afternoon for the grade 10 race. I have no idea what happens if you are sick.

 

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