If you were at some point against vaccines, but now differ, what changed?

[Ginevra]

I'm curious about this because of the vaccine thread. I do remember when DS was a baby (1999), homeschoolers who were against vaccinations, or who at least did something non-standard in their vaccine schedule, were *everywhere.* The board I was on at that time was big on promoting that Shot in The Dark book.

 

I do remember specifically the article on-line that I read that started to change my mind to pro-vax. (I was never fully anti-vax.) It was written by Jay Wylie of Apologia. It exposed all the phony science in that book and lead me to change my mind back to vaccines.

 

I imagine at least some current pro-vax folks must surely have debated it at some point in the past.

[Lecka]

My oldest just turned 12, and before he was born I was unsure about vaccinations.

 

However there was a combination of more information about vaccines and feeling like he was likely to be exposed to anything going around, because my husband's job takes him around many people who travel a lot and to less-developed regions.

 

Edit: so he was vaccinated but if my time period was even 5 years earlier I think I may have chosen differently because of available information.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Lecka

[ScoutTN]

I am pro-vax, but also for flexible scheduling, not determined by the gov't. 

My son had some negative reactions to his 8 week shots and we slowed his vax schedule down, separated some shots etc. I am glad we have the freedom to do that. 

[FaithManor]

NM

Edited May 7, 2017 by FaithManor

[DesertBlossom]

I think it would be impossible to concisely explain my personal opinions on vaccines on a forum. I'm not anti-vax but I fall somewhere on the spectrum with medical and philosophical delayed/selective-vaxxers.

 

Things I do know:

1. A conversation about vaccines in general is rather pointless. If we want to have a real conversation we need to talk about them individually. Not all vaccines are created equal. Some have a much higher incidence of adverse reactions than others. Some VPDs are scarier than others. Some vaccines are more effective than others. Some people are more susceptible to vaccine injury than others. And on and on and on. Whether vaccines are "worth the risk" really depends on which vaccine we're talking about and who is going to receive it.

2. No government should be forcing medical decisions on anyone.

 

I have no interest in participating in the other thread. When people pull out the "I wish they could talk to all the people who suffered from polio" I check out. Polio and small pox are used like vaccine trump cards intended to shut down actual meaningful conversation. Like polio is supposed to be enough reason to justify the existence and necessity of dozens of other vaccines. No thanks.

Edited May 8, 2017 by DesertBlossom

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

I have no interest in participating in the other thread. When people pull out the "I wish they could talk to all the people who suffered from polio" I check out. Polio and small pox are used like vaccine trump cards intended to shut down actual meaningful conversation. Like polio is supposed to be enough reason to justify the existence and necessity of dozens of other vaccines. No thanks.

 

Really? I disagree. I think that statement could actually be meaningful conversation. Whether polio is supposed to be enough reason to justify all vaccines for all time could be debated, if someone was determined to interpret the statement that way, but how is it even debatable that the statement is some reminder of valid justification for the polio vaccine?

 

I've never met anyone who eschewed vaccines...except for polio. If people aren't vaxxing on whatever principle, their children are not being immunized against polio. Aside from all the other vaccinations, what do they have against this one? To refer to the original statement in question, have they never met anyone who has suffered from polio?

[bettyandbob]

I've never been anti vax. But I've wondered, especially since my kids have all come up with different health problems, so I didn't want to possibly add to that with side effects. What I would prefer is an alternate schedule. Not these appointments where babies are jabbed with 4 different things at once. I'd rather have a schedule where I had to come to appointments every month to get all those vaccines in. It seems harsh on the system and to do multiples at once. 

 

 

[DesertBlossom]

Really? I disagree. I think that statement could actually be meaningful conversation. Whether polio is supposed to be enough reason to justify all vaccines for all time could be debated, if someone was determined to interpret the statement that way, but how is it even debatable that the statement is some reminder of valid justification for the polio vaccine?

 

I've never met anyone who eschewed vaccines...except for polio. If people aren't vaxxing on whatever principle, their children are not being immunized against polio. Aside from all the other vaccinations, what do they have against this one? To refer to the original statement in question, have they never met anyone who has suffered from polio?

 

In a discussion specifically about polio, that's a perfectly acceptable thing to say. 

[SKL]

I put "other" because it's not black and white.

 

I believe in making an informed decision vax by vax (regarding whether and when to vax), without pressure.

 

In this regard I have not changed my opinion.

[MistyMountain]

I was never against vaccines and I did vaccinate just a little slower but I admit I was more nervous about them and the ingredients and did worry they could have contributed to issues like autism or other issues in some children. I remember when my oldest was a baby the mom boards were more on the anti vaccine side. Those voices certainly won our especially in the crunchy types.

 

I read a lot on the topic but I finally started reading the articles from the science side and I have shifted my view on the topic through the years. There are a lot of nutrition trends that also use really poor research that people say you must follow.

 

I had to leave the crunchy type groups because I just did not fit in and people kept going on about how horrible it was that people inject their kids with poison or feed them soy or a grain. I was more concerned with environmental type issues not the vaccine and woo nutrition advice and it was the reverse in the parenting groups I found.

Edited May 8, 2017 by MistyMountain

[maize]

I used to delay/spread vaccines out much more than I do now. The change has been for practical reasons though. My oldest was delayed partly because we did not have consistent insurance until she was 6 months old. After that my approach was always to get the vaccines for diseases that were likely to be circulating in the community first and moderately delay others. With increasing instances of some diseases (looking at you measles...) the candidates for delay have decreased. And with a growing family the logistics of keeping up a delayed/spaced schedule have become a significant drawback (required additional visits) so I have moved closer and closer to the recommended schedule.

 

None of my kids has had significant reactions.

[EmseB]

I was never against vaccines, but based on just things I heard passively I was scared to give my first his shots.  This was 2007.  I just thought I was taking a huge risks. I did it anyway at the time because of what I considered to be a huge amount of pressure from my doctor. 

 

Now I'm very, very pro-vax. I feel like what Wakefield et al have done is horrible.  The argument that they give newborn babies so many more shots these days than in the past?  I consider that a good thing.  More diseases that my tiny baby will have less chance of catching?  Fantastic!  I'm actually in favor of better living through chemistry in most areas of my life.  Yay chemicals!

Edited May 8, 2017 by EmseB

[Shellydon]

I delayed vaxes.  I did them later than the recommended timeline and more slowly.  I could never wrap myself around the idea of discarding them all together because  my grandfather had polio with caused life long issues for him and a sibling died of a type of meningitis that is vaccine preventable now.  Things that made me rethink  the delaying of vaccines were outbreaks of whooping cough and measles and lots of contact with unvaxxed families.  The unvaccinated families were/are *always* sick.  They seemed to get every virus out there, always have ear infections, always have sinus infections etc.  The other thing that that swayed me was working with lots of families with autistic children (as in several hundred over the last 10 years)-- so many were just devastated with the diagnosis because they had not vaccinated yet their child still had autism. 

[Crimson Wife]

Other.

 

-started out following the CDC schedule with my oldest because I had never heard of a concern

-then went to being a strong slow-and-selective vaxxer (and supportive of parental rights to opt out completely) when all the controversies over vaccination came to my attention

-then with the measles outbreaks hitting my state and a child who was diagnosed with autism before she had received her MMR (I went ahead and had her vaxxed after diagnosis), I am a bit more pro-vax than I had been for a while.

[Butter]

I was pro-vax when my first was born.  Then I was anti-vax after she had a severe reaction to her 4 month shots.  Now I'm pretty pro-vax again even though my oldest can't get certain ones and my youngest can't get chicken pox (medical reasons).

[Crimson Wife]

Other. I really got worried by the possibility of side effects when I had my first baby. This little person, and I was making what seemed like this huge choice for her.

I did a lot of research, and concluded that there were small risks to my individual child either way, though quite a bit smaller if I vaccinated than if I didn't.

 

What swayed me was the community aspect of vaccinations - that by vaccinating our children, we helped maintain herd immunity for those who couldn't be vaccinated due to age, immune status or health issues. Given I felt I was taking a small risk either way, I decided to take the risk with most benefit for all - to vax.

 

Interestingly, years later, the issue came up with a friend I would never in a million years have pegged as an anti-vaxxer, and she went through the same process, but decided that as there were tiny risks both ways, she'd err on the side of not vaccinating. It kind of rubbed off a bit of the respect I'd had for her - just a bit - because I couldn't help but see her choice as selfish (there was no medical need to avoid vaccination, which obviously, would have been very valid.)

 

I find the "herd immunity" argument to be a noblesse oblige argument and that just turns me off. My responsibility as a parent is first and foremost to my child, and I should not be expected to sacrifice his/her best interests for the good of others.

 

The reason I have softened my stance on vaccination is because I have changed my opinion on the perceived potential risks to MY child of vaccinating vs. skipping. 

[Guest]

I find the "herd immunity" argument to be a noblesse oblige argument and that just turns me off. My responsibility as a parent is first and foremost to my child, and I should not be expected to sacrifice his/her best interests for the good of others.

 

The reason I have softened my stance on vaccination is because I have changed my opinion on the perceived potential risks to MY child of vaccinating vs. skipping.

Interesting. I think the herd immunity reason is a valid one. Obviously, not if there were a known danger specific to my own child, but otherwise, yes. I remember having exactly that conversation on-line in a message board many years ago. I theorized exactly that - isn't it selfish to benefit oneself from the herd immunity of the (at the time) large majority of vaccinating parents, while saying, "But *I'm* not going to vaccinate just in case there could be a negative effect." If our grandparents had thought that way, Polio would not have been almost erradicated. And we have seen how pockets of Measels and Pertussis have errupted as many parents thought this way.

 

By the time I had my youngest, I was very concerned about Measels and Pertussis because I knew that, if there was going to be an outbreak in this area, it was surely going to errupt amongst the homeschoolers in co-op.

[Seeking Squirrels]

I was very anti-vax when my oldest was born almost 9 years ago. I thought I had done careful research, but in hindsight I think I let a few of the scary details I read early on bias everything after that point. When second was born almost 5 years ago we still weren't vaccinating. I wasn't AS anti as I once had been. I was leaning at that point more toward there just being too many too soon. That they weren't *bad*, I just didn't want them near my *baby*. I started thinking that maybe at some point we would get them vax'd. 

 

When they were 6 and 2 we decided we wanted to get them caught up, but extremely slowly. We started with one at a time a couple months apart. But the regular shots were harder on them and at one point we needed to hurry one of them up, so we picked up the pace. A few took quite some time to get caught up since they need more than one x number of months apart. Other than flu shots, they were caught up by their birthdays last summer, 8 & 4. 

 

Changing my mind on vaccines followed closely behind when I rejected religious belief. I know belief and anti-vax don't necessarily go together, but apparently for me they did. I guess it was more the mindset change for me. I was questioning everything I ever knew or believed in. Vaccinations were lumped in there somewhere and when I revisited it, I came away with a different picture than I had years before. It still took me several months to get over the fears I had harbored over that time, though. There was about 9 months between when I "deconverted" and when they started receiving shots. We talked with their pediatrician several times throughout the decision making and the catch-up. 

 

 

*also of note: though I had never fully believed the autism tie-in with vaccines, there's still always that nugget of doubt that that myth places. So it was probably easier for me to go through with the shots since my DD was diagnosed with spectrum issues (ADHD, SPD) BEFORE receiving her first shot. HF ASD is still not off the table IMO (and others who know her). But I never have to fear we did it with the shots as we saw all of this before ever starting them. I know the data already says this, but mommy-guilt can be strong and override facts. 

[Bluegoat]

Interesting. I think the herd immunity reason is a valid one. Obviously, not if there were a known danger specific to my own child, but otherwise, yes. I remember having exactly that conversation on-line in a message board many years ago. I theorized exactly that - isn't it selfish to benefit oneself from the herd immunity of the (at the time) large majority of vaccinating parents, while saying, "But *I'm* not going to vaccinate just in case there could be a negative effect." If our grandparents had thought that way, Polio would not have been almost erradicated. And we have seen how pockets of Measels and Pertussis have errupted as many parents thought this way.

 

By the time I had my youngest, I was very concerned about Measels and Pertussis because I knew that, if there was going to be an outbreak in this area, it was surely going to errupt amongst the homeschoolers in co-op.

 

And this has been explicit in some cases.  The Sears that wrote the vaccine book explicitly said not to tell other moms about the dangers of vaccines, so that herd immunity would be maintained.

 

That's where that logic goes.

 

But then, I  think noblesse oblige is basically positive.

[Epicurean]

I was always pro-vaccination, but in a completely voluntary way. This past year, I've come around to the idea that vaccinations should be compulsory (along with organ donation). The smallpox vaccine was basically forced on people, and it was the only way we were able to completely eradicate a disease that killed around 500 million people between 1900 and 1979. And now it's GONE, forever. You can't achieve that kind of success with voluntary vaccination.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Epicurean

[BigMamaBird]

My family is fully vaxxed, I personally think they are good things. However, I strongly believe that no one should be forced into vaccinations if they don't want to. 

[Audrey]

I'm curious about this because of the vaccine thread. I do remember when DS was a baby (1999), homeschoolers who were against vaccinations, or who at least did something non-standard in their vaccine schedule, were *everywhere.* The board I was on at that time was big on promoting that Shot in The Dark book.

 

I do remember specifically the article on-line that I read that started to change my mind to pro-vax. (I was never fully anti-vax.) It was written by Jay Wylie of Apologia. It exposed all the phony science in that book and lead me to change my mind back to vaccines.

 

I imagine at least some current pro-vax folks must surely have debated it at some point in the past.

 

 

I was firmly pro-vax, even rabid about it, until my son suffered a very serious reaction to an MMR vaccine.  That sure does wake up an arrogant ass pretty quick, IME.

 

Since then, I cannot say I am pro-vax, nor anti-vax.  I think that there are benefits to vaccination that cannot be denied, but I would not ever again try to talk someone into vaccination.  IME, most people I've come across IRL who do not vax, do so for very good medical reasons.  Online that picture seems to be different, but I choose not to engage with people who have no valid scientific/medical reasoning to offer. 

 

In short... I'm not out to change anyone's mind on this issue.

[Tenaj]

I've gone back and forth over the years from pro to semi-anti and have basically settled with my last few kids on a delayed but complete schedule that my pediatrician was happy with though we don't do flu or HPV.

 

My attitude had been  and continues to be heavily influenced by a young lady (well, now she's in her 30's) who attended our church from the time she was four.  She had a documented reaction to the DPT vaccine and it arrested her mental development at about the age of 2 - 3 years.  It's very hard to accept that the statistical chances of this happening to your own child are very rare when you are witness to the results of that small percentage every week, year in and year out.  It was really tough for me and I'm very glad that my pediatrician understood the situation we were in and was willing to delay a bit and be very patient in giving me lengthy explanations.  I probably drove him crazy for a few years but he kept us as patients.

 

 

[EMS83]

Obligatory other.  The poll doesn't allow for a non-binary view.  I am pro, and I am anti.  And I am neither.  ;)  So I can (and do) get loud and emphatic lectures from both sides.

[Susan in TX]

I was pro-vaccine until I went to get my first child vaccinated and the doctor gave me a release of liability form to sign. It listed the risks to my child if they got the disease along with the risks of side effects from the vaccine. These side effects included death. It had never occurred to me that giving my child a shot could in rare cases cause death or other severe side effects. I did not sign the form and my daughter did not get shots that day. We then did a lot of research and determined that we would rather risk getting the diseases than the possible side effects from the shots.

 

We  then went on to have nine more children. We did not immunize any of them. Seven of them have had whooping cough (not fun). One never got it even though she was exposed to sick siblings two different times. One of my children is on the autism spectrum. Some of my adult children have decided to get vaccinated. I am ok with this. Once they are adults I encourage them to do their own research and decide for themselves.

 

Susan in TX

[Zinnia]

The pediatrician we used with our first baby was a bit....alternative.  (He eventually left western medicine to practice accupuncture.)  I don't even think that standard schedule was a thing in his office; you had to ask.

 

When we switched, it was to a practice that did a lot of delayed, special schedules, and because we were delayed already, they assumed that's what I wanted and made specialized schedules for us.

 

And in our current pediatrician, she's assumed the same thing.

 

Truth is, I don't mind the vax at all and never really have.  I just hate the frequent visits (because the peds want to do 1-2 shots per visit, so I have to do well visits, as well as other shot-only visits), especially with my first kid, who threw some humdinger tantrums at the doctor's office over shots.   So my kids have remained behind until they catch up around 5 or  6.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Zinnia

[Artichoke]

i'm an other :-) 

 

We had no vax concerns with our first  two.  Then along came #3 who reacted sometimes violently to vaccines.  I called our ped the first time this happened, and he was less than helpful.   This made me sit up and take notice that I needed to get more info and not blindly trust  the info sheets in his office  and to get a new ped.    We continued  to vaccinate on a delayed schedule and with only one vaccine at a time when possible.  We've not been able to get an MMR separately in years.  Finally the  number of vaccines continued to increase, and that has caused me to be even more vigilant. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I've never been categorically for or against.  I've always said circumstances should dictate that, and circumstances can change.  Just because circumstances changed, doesn't mean the position changed.

 

All medical decisions should always be made on the basis of the benefits outweighing the risks. So if a kid is less likely to get the illness and dying or being permanently damaged from the illness than having a vaccine reaction of some sort, then they should not be vaccinated.  If they're more likely to have a vaccine reaction of some sort than getting the illness and dying or being damaged from it, then they shouldn't.  

When my older kids were little, the number of measles and other illnesses was very low.  We opted out.  Good thing too, because later when those cases were increasing significantly and we wanted them vaccinated, it turned out middle daughter was medically contraindicated for a while, needed a vaccine not generally recommended until people are elderly, and then had to be on a customized schedule to catch up on selected ones according to her immunologist. Is that my position changing?  No.  The position was about likelihood of exposure and still is. 

[Cecropia]

I used to delay/spread vaccines out much more than I do now. The change has been for practical reasons though. My oldest was delayed partly because we did not have consistent insurance until she was 6 months old. After that my approach was always to get the vaccines for diseases that were likely to be circulating in the community first and moderately delay others. With increasing instances of some diseases (looking at you measles...) the candidates for delay have decreased. And with a growing family the logistics of keeping up a delayed/spaced schedule have become a significant drawback (required additional visits) so I have moved closer and closer to the recommended schedule.

 

None of my kids has had significant reactions.

 

This has been my experience, too.  It is always a cost/benefit analysis.  I was once involved in a super-crunchy-granola group of moms and I've heard all the anti-vax arguments.  In the end I wasn't convinced that vaccines aren't effective, but I definitely wanted a different schedule than recommended.  It's funny, back then it seemed that pediatricians were more willing to work with me on that.  Nowadays they are much more pushy.

 

(There is one vax that I would have declined completely, but it was required for admission to public school.  I still don't agree with it for multiple reasons)

[Learning fun]

My husband's step brother was vax injured and the woman I worked for's son was vax injured. So I became hyper aware of the risks. As a new mother I was also aware of the risks of not vaccinating. I agonized for awhile but in the end decided to go ahead and do it for the unscientific reason that I had prayed about it and had a gut feeling that my child would be just fine with them, and she was. I'm glad she got them because now I have crossed all of those diseases off my worry list. I could never blame a mother for choosing not to vax though. Vax injury is real and awful and I can't blame anybody for following their intuition when it comes to the wellbeing of their child.

[EMS83]

I agree [with a PP] about the pushy [docs].  Pushy, defensive, manipulative, deceptive.  It was really off putting and undermined my trust in them far more than whatever alarmist anti-vax rants I read on the internet.  And the balance is, I don't do business with those practices anymore.  I found one that's willing to weigh things and not be pushy either way.

 

 

 

 

Edited for clarity.

Edited May 8, 2017 by CES2005

[Reefgazer]

I voted "other".  I am pro-vax and always have been.  However, the time I spent working for a big, well-known pharmaceutical company made me extremely cautious about vaccines, and skeptical about quality claims.  The actual vaccines aren't the problem; the leadership at the company was the problem, and I am not so naïve to think the quality control and manufacturing problems are isolated to that one company.  The company produced vaccines, and I have first-hand knowledge of management authorizing cutting corners that endangered lives; in fact the company lost a multi-million dollar judgment against it because of negligence.  The danger isn't the vaccines; it's corporate greed, and probably extends to other pharma products, as well. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by reefgazer

[Junie]

With my first, I skipped the chicken pox vaccine because it was new.  I wanted to wait a few years to see how effective it was and if there were any terrible side effects in large numbers.  At some point, our pediatrician told me that with as many kids as I have, if the kids got chicken pox, whoever got it last would have a really bad case because of multiple exposure.  She didn't provide any research to back her statement, but I decided to get the vaccine for all of them since the vaccine had been out for nearly ten years by this point.

 

We were kind of hit and miss on the flu vaccine.  In 2009, when the swine flu was so bad, I decided that we would all get the flu shot every year.  A friend of mine died in that epidemic.  She was expecting her first child.  :(  They saved the baby, but they couldn't save the mom.

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

Really? I disagree. I think that statement could actually be meaningful conversation. Whether polio is supposed to be enough reason to justify all vaccines for all time could be debated, if someone was determined to interpret the statement that way, but how is it even debatable that the statement is some reminder of valid justification for the polio vaccine?

 

I've never met anyone who eschewed vaccines...except for polio. If people aren't vaxxing on whatever principle, their children are not being immunized against polio. Aside from all the other vaccinations, what do they have against this one? To refer to the original statement in question, have they never met anyone who has suffered from polio?

I definitely no people who do polio whooping cough and tetanus but object to vaccines for chicken pox or don't choose to pay for flu vaccine. There are definitely degrees.

 

I am pro vaccines and have done all except one for my daughter because it had to be given in three doses and she had a bad reaction to the first one. I reported it and was basically dismissed.

[HS Mom in NC]

Oh, and youngest is completely vaccinated according to schedule except for flu shots (we don't do those) from birth because she's an international adoptee and her birth country doesn't allow adoptive parents to opt out except for flu.  What changed?  Adopting someone else's child. My contract didn't give me the right to choose even after the adoption was finalized.  I honor my contracts. 

[Ausmumof3]

I definitely do not agree with mandatory vaccination. Or even withholding gov financial benefits etc.

 

I know of one person who's kid did have a very severe issue thanks to vaccination and it took years before the hospital that handled it would acknowledge that it was vaccine related. In a mandatory vaccine world she would have been forced to have the follow up vaccinations and her kid could have died.

 

I also think that at times doctors or science people can be slightly manipulative or pushy. I understand why but it makes me more wary than if they were just honest.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Ausmumof3

[Crimson Wife]

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing responsibility to others being a bad thing. 

 

Aren't you (and all of us) "shirking your responsibility to the community" by HSing instead of having your kids in PS? How DARE YOU put your childrens' well-being first instead of sacrificing them so that the group can benefit? :rolleyes:

 

I don't find noblesse oblige any more convincing an argument for vaccines than it is for PS...

[laundrycrisis]

I am not against vaccines.  I never was.  However I am cautious with them, especially with very young children.  I have seen a reaction in my family.  I personally know people who have dealt with much more severe reactions.  I know someone who lost a child due to a vaccine reaction.  

 

I am for informed consent, and personal freedom to make our own choices about health care.  I absolutely do not agree with the whole herd immunity/responsibility to the community arguments.  I also do not believe the news stories outbreaks that are supposedly caused by "the unvaccinated".  

 

Most of the non-vaccinating families I personally know or have known in the past are robustly healthy.  They rarely get sick. They have extremely healthy diets and lifestyles.  They are proactive about preventing illness.  They seek medical help when necessary.  They stay home when someone is beginning symptoms of anything.  They usually know more about vaccines and the diseases they are meant to prevent than probably 99.9% of the population.  I support their informed choice.  I would not agree with taking it away.  

 

I am not afraid to be in contact with these families.  I am more concerned about having contact with the vaccinated person who is in public with an alarming cough, who appears to have pertussis, but is unaware or won't consider that they have pertussis, because they got the vaccine, so think it's just a cough.  

 

Our children are vaccinated.  This was completed on a schedule we were comfortable with.  It was done by our own informed choice.  I'm not against vaccines.  I'm against manipulation or coercion regarding vaccines.  

Edited May 8, 2017 by laundrycrisis

[jewellsmommy]

When the article came out that linked the mmr to autism, dd wasn't born yet. I had read the article, and it freaked me out at first because we have autoimmune issues in my family. We were trying to get pregnant, and I was on hormonal ups and downs. It had never even occurred to me that not-vaxing was an option. I had just never thought about it. So, I started researching and questioning...a lot. I was all over the place. I eventually calmed down :lol: and came to the conclusion that we would vaccinate. Dh trusted the decision to me knowing I'm a science oriented person (when I'm not irrational from the over-hormonification of fertility meds).

 

When dd was born, we intended to be on schedule until we ran into some health issues with dd. There were a few delays as we spread a couple of the vaccines out. By mid childhood, we were back on track and stayed that way.

 

When dd was 10, I started looking into the hpv shot. At that point I decided no. There really seemed to be more issues surrounding it, and it was still newish. I like to see the bugs worked out a little longer.

 

Last year, the vaccine was 10 yrs old and some things happened to someone we know that made me take a second look. I researched again. It was a much harder decision, but we were able to include dd in the discussions and the pediatrician was very helpful. In the end we did it. I do not know another person irl (that I have spoken with on the matter) that chose to do this vaccine.  This was a very unpopular decision in my circle. The people who knew that we had done an alternative schedule at one point were shocked that we would turn around and use this vaccine. But, dh recently read an article about oral hpv that made him glad that we went ahead with this vaccine. 

 

There seem to be many pro-vaxers that won't do this vaccine and anti-vaxers dislike this one especially. I have often been quite reluctant to discuss it because there is such strong pressure against it. I bring it up here and now because it really embodies the shift that we made.

[DesertBlossom]

I also think that at times doctors or science people can be slightly manipulative or pushy. I understand why but it makes me more wary than if they were just honest.

I have met very pushy and manipulative doctors and it makes me very wary. The thing is, pediatricians receive financial compensation based on the number of children in their practice that are fully vaccinated. Maybe that's a good thing as it would encourage them to encourage their patients to vaccinate. But how is that doctor likely to react when a parent expresses concern over their child's adverse reaction and wants to delay or spread the rest of the shots out? It's nice to think a doctor would do whatever is in the child's best interest, but there are countless stories of doctors dismissing a parent's concern abd blowing off rather serious reactions as "normal." Often times adverse reactions are even more severe with subsequent doses. I do think it creates a bit of a conflict of interest.

[lovinmyboys]

Aren't you (and all of us) "shirking your responsibility to the community" by HSing instead of having your kids in PS? How DARE YOU put your childrens' well-being first instead of sacrificing them so that the group can benefit? :rolleyes:

 

I don't find noblesse oblige any more convincing an argument for vaccines than it is for PS...

No one is dying because I don't put my kids in public school. The mother of the child who gave my infant son whooping cough (and yes we know for sure where he got it) said to me "I'm sorry your son got sick, but as a parent it is my responsibility to do what is best for my kids. It is not my responsibility to take care of other peoples kids." My son is fine, but he was really sick. I just can't wrap my head around that kind of thinking. Obviously if a child has a medical reason for not being vaccinated, the parent should put their kid's needs first. The child who passed whooping cough to my son was not vaccinated for philosophical reasons.

 

But you are right that people in general don't think they have a responsibility to other kids. There have been studies done on it and telling parents they may save another child's life by vaccinating their child did not sway parents to vaccinate.

[DawnM]

I grew up in a Third World country and I come from a  medical family.

 

I have always been pro vaccines.   Very pro.

[Guest]

Aren't you (and all of us) "shirking your responsibility to the community" by HSing instead of having your kids in PS? How DARE YOU put your childrens' well-being first instead of sacrificing them so that the group can benefit? :rolleyes:

 

I don't find noblesse oblige any more convincing an argument for vaccines than it is for PS...

I don't find the two at all comparable.

 

I never worry that my kids will contract Polio or Small Pox. It never crosses my mind. Why? Because those horrible diseases have been largely or totally irradicated because millions of people had the vaccines., some by election, some by force.

 

Homeschooling is not made possible *because* millions of parents before me have sent their kids to PS, by force or by election. I am not increasing the likelihood that other children may die or become very ill because I HSed my children. My children are not resting in the benefits created by previous PSed children. (If I owe a debt of gratitude to anyone, it is the early homeschool pioneers who forced the issue and made it legal in every state in the US through their court cases and iron will.) And I still pay many thousands of dollars in property taxes which supports the PS system in my state and county, though I do not benefit from it.

[Guest]

I have met very pushy and manipulative doctors and it makes me very wary. The thing is, pediatricians receive financial compensation based on the number of children in their practice that are fully vaccinated. Maybe that's a good thing as it would encourage them to encourage their patients to vaccinate. But how is that doctor likely to react when a parent expresses concern over their child's adverse reaction and wants to delay or spread the rest of the shots out? It's nice to think a doctor would do whatever is in the child's best interest, but there are countless stories of doctors dismissing a parent's concern abd blowing off rather serious reactions as "normal." Often times adverse reactions are even more severe with subsequent doses. I do think it creates a bit of a conflict of interest.

It's not just that. The insurance companies also penalize pediatricians who do not vaccinate according to schedule. The pediatrician I had for several years through the "hot" years of vax debate was not a pusher of vaccines. One of her own children had (at least initially) been completely unvaccinated, except for Polio. Her second child had been selective and delayed vax. So she was a believer in full disclosure. But I could see her views were changing somewhat as she went along. Eventually, I left her practice because she ceased working with health insurance. She planned to do her practice on an all-cash basis. She was also very part-time and it was difficult to see her for anything but a well visit that could be planned in advance. I don't know how this turned out for her. She was very alternative.

[kewb]

As I read the choices I waffled between waiver and other. I think I waiver. My kids were vaccinated on schedule without a second thought until ds was around 8 and dd was 6. Around this time I had been researching homeschooling and the parenting board I was on had a forum dedicated to the anti-vax way of thinking. I thought anti-vaxers were nuts. But one day I started reading that forum. I don't know why. And that led me down some rabbit holes. I became anti-vax for my kids. Reinforced by the fact that ds caught chickenpox even though he was vaccinated.

Years later, more research, changed my mind again and became more of a selective vaxer mind set. No way was I giving my kids the HPV vaccine. I don't think we know enough about long term effects and most hpv clears up without you even knowing you had it. I would also wait on chicken pox. I never gave my kids a flu shot. It didn't seem necessary. I have had flu shots in the past with no side effects but feel my exposure risk is low and frequent hand washing and not touching one's face work.

I am now in the delayed, selective camp. Who knows where further research will bring me.

I always hated the greater good, herd immunity stance. I felt my obligation was to my child first. I still feel that way.

[Carrie12345]

I've never been ANTI-vax, and I've never been PRO-vax.  Much like other anti/pro debates in health care and in general, I don't believe in one-size-fits-all positions.

[Pam in CT]

I voted pro-vax, but we declined chicken pox when my two eldest were young.  The booster hadn't yet been developed, the studies available at the time suggested the protection might wane over time, and for that one disease I preferred that they get it as children than risk getting it as adults when it's often much more serious.  We did all other vaccinations on time.

 

I actually intentionally exposed them when CP broke out at my son's Montessori preschool, but neither got it.  When the chicken pox booster was developed; we caught them up.  And my youngest did the recommended schedule.

 

We've always done the CDC recommended vaccinations for travel as well.

 

 

re compulsory public health measures:

I was always pro-vaccination, but in a completely voluntary way. This past year, I've come around to the idea that vaccinations should be compulsory (along with organ donation). The smallpox vaccine was basically forced on people, and it was the only way we were able to completely eradicate a disease that killed around 500 million people between 1900 and 1979. And now it's GONE, forever. You can't achieve that kind of success with voluntary vaccination.

 

 

I'm not quite there (and, certainly, any public health mandate needs suitable carve-outs for individual medical conditions).

 

But the Ebola epidemic drove home for me how different it is, to actually look at a real and present public health danger imminently presenting widespread threat, than to think about these things in the abstract.  There were MANY people on these boards who supported longterm compulsory quarantine of people who'd been exposed to Ebola.  Forced quarantine being a far more intrusive / expensive / life-disrupting public health measure than vaccination risks.

 

We're very fortunate, in this country, that we have not faced a widespread public health contagion in a while.  That definitely frames the vaccination context.

[SKL]

...

 

When dd was 10, I started looking into the hpv shot. At that point I decided no. There really seemed to be more issues surrounding it, and it was still newish. I like to see the bugs worked out a little longer.

 

Last year, the vaccine was 10 yrs old and some things happened to someone we know that made me take a second look. I researched again. It was a much harder decision, but we were able to include dd in the discussions and the pediatrician was very helpful. In the end we did it. I do not know another person irl (that I have spoken with on the matter) that chose to do this vaccine.  This was a very unpopular decision in my circle. The people who knew that we had done an alternative schedule at one point were shocked that we would turn around and use this vaccine. But, dh recently read an article about oral hpv that made him glad that we went ahead with this vaccine. 

 

There seem to be many pro-vaxers that won't do this vaccine and anti-vaxers dislike this one especially. I have often been quite reluctant to discuss it because there is such strong pressure against it. I bring it up here and now because it really embodies the shift that we made.

 

Regarding the HPV shot, I think one of the reasons people are so adamant about this one is that for a while, some jurisdictions tried to make it mandatory.  Now I can understand making smallpox or polio mandatory (or ebola or even AIDS) but HPV?  No way.  That made people so mad that I don't know when they will be able to be totally rational about that vaccine.  Being called stupid along the way by pro-HPV vaxers is not going to change that.  (Not saying you are doing that, but many do.)

 

On a related point, chickenpox - I was for waiting until my kids were 9 and hoping they catch the actual pox instead.  (Finally got them the shot in 1st grade rather than fight the school about it.)  People have insisted over and over that I am horrible because without the CP vaccine, my kids could get shingles in later life.  Well, I said, the pox vax hasn't been around long enough to prove whether it prevents or causes shingles.  This past weekend the topic came up with a woman who has adult children who had the vax.  She told me her vaccinated son got shingles.  So there goes that argument.

[Bluegoat]

Aren't you (and all of us) "shirking your responsibility to the community" by HSing instead of having your kids in PS? How DARE YOU put your childrens' well-being first instead of sacrificing them so that the group can benefit? :rolleyes:

 

I don't find noblesse oblige any more convincing an argument for vaccines than it is for PS...

 

Not if it isn't better for the community to have your kids in schools that are inadaquate, or not suited to deal with a particular child.  That doesn't help the other kids in the classroom.  Nor does putting a child in school help a broken system repair itself, in most cases.

 

The effect of opting out of public schooling, and opting out of vaccinations, aren't all that comparable either, from a qualitative POV. 

[Bluegoat]

No one is dying because I don't put my kids in public school. The mother of the child who gave my infant son whooping cough (and yes we know for sure where he got it) said to me "I'm sorry your son got sick, but as a parent it is my responsibility to do what is best for my kids. It is not my responsibility to take care of other peoples kids." My son is fine, but he was really sick. I just can't wrap my head around that kind of thinking. Obviously if a child has a medical reason for not being vaccinated, the parent should put their kid's needs first. The child who passed whooping cough to my son was not vaccinated for philosophical reasons.

 

But you are right that people in general don't think they have a responsibility to other kids. There have been studies done on it and telling parents they may save another child's life by vaccinating their child did not sway parents to vaccinate.

 

​I wonder if where people live makes a difference with this?  Some cultures are much more inclined to consider the good of the whole as really important.